Single mob pulls

[droid327]

Is there a good way to do this now that ranged combat once again aggros everyone around your target?

[cdbd3rd]

Is there a good way to do this now that ranged combat once again aggros everyone around your target?

Haven't been in game to try, but does Bluff still just agro single targets now?

[Thalone]

Yeah, aggro is extremely weird now. I've been using DDoor tactics a lot lately, and now mobs will run back to the start of the dungeon to pursue me even though there's no line of sight.

To pull single mobs, the "body pull" (go invis/sneak and approach a single mob; when it makes its spot/listen check it'll start moving toward you) and "thrower" (from far away, chuck a returning thrower on the ground near the target mob, but don't hit it) methods still work.

I don't have a noisemaker rogue build to check, but I suspect that would work too.

[Tscheuss]

Finger of Death works to single draw machines. :)

[Daine]

Haven't been in game to try, but does Bluff still just agro single targets now?

Yes

[janave]

Throwers work if you aim to the right spots, this could take a while depending on how the mobs are positioned, and if you want to pull a specific one from the crowd.

[droid327]

Throwers work if you aim to the right spots, this could take a while depending on how the mobs are positioned, and if you want to pull a specific one from the crowd.

Is it only with throwers or will bows/repeaters work the same?

[Dorian]

Yeah, aggro is extremely weird now. I've been using DDoor tactics a lot lately, and now mobs will run back to the start of the dungeon to pursue me even though there's no line of sight.


Did they change the mob "reset" range? (where it ports back to its original location)

[Mercureal]

Is it only with throwers or will bows/repeaters work the same?

Any ranged weapon should have the same effect, although I haven't used this method to get attention since the update.

Casting a single target non-damaging spell works too. Non-heightened Charm Person works pretty well for this.

[Powskier]

tough luck..no more easy finish for archers.Mobs Attack!...like the drow next to the one you hit didnt notice anyway?

[Hendrik]

Is there a good way to do this now that ranged combat once again aggros everyone around your target?

Bluff, serious.

Read it, try it, with some practice, it works just fine.

[brian14]

Any ranged weapon should have the same effect, although I haven't used this method to get attention since the update.

Casting a single target non-damaging spell works too. Non-heightened Charm Person works pretty well for this.
Does this work if the target is not a "person"? Can you pull a single troll (for example), by casting Charm Person or Charm Animal on it? The latter is relevant to rangers.

[Mercureal]

Sorry, I should have specified a spell that could affect the target. I think you'd get an "immune" message in those cases and the effect wouldn't process. A Ranger could use Snare though - they'll still almost certainly save against and that will draw their aggro.

And as Hendrik said, the Bluff skill. It works great if you've put points into it.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

The old ways should still work. But I haven't tested them to be sure.

[RD2play]

Shoot ground .... wait for right mob .. wait till rest leaves ... rinse repeat ... till hes alone and kill ....


Really ??? Really ?? ...Do we really have to go from one end of the spectrum to the other ???? no middle ground (first no mob would do anything when his friend falls dead, now they all auto agro on the shooter ???)

[Kalimah]

Throwers work if you aim to the right spots, this could take a while depending on how the mobs are positioned, and if you want to pull a specific one from the crowd.

Naw not like this anymore. You can toss your thrower at a mob as far out as you can see it and only hit that mob and still bring his pals over. I think this was a game mechanic change to help combat the prevalence of the ranged build.

[Seikojin]

Did they change the mob "reset" range? (where it ports back to its original location)

Not that I have seen.

As far as pulling, you should experiment to find out which are stragglers and which are part of a pack. You can pull stragglers but if the pack is tight, they will agro and all come. Spies in the house on en was a good way to test this. After killing the first named wizard, you hike up a ladder and have some arcane skelles and normal skelles down the hall. They are all close, however I know that the arcanes are in a pack. I was able to range the non-arcanes one at a time to pull them without aggroing the arcanes.

[DrowsworD]

Not only do those a long way from the target aggro on a shooter, but taking damage from other players on their way to the shooter doesn't change their aggro target. We tested this; my cleric got aggro from a target in the distance and the melee beat on him as he made his way to me. Even after taking 90% more damage from a Paladin, the target still came after the shooter. There seems no way to take aggro from the shooter.

[Horkster]

Not only do those a long way from the target aggro on a shooter, but taking damage from other players on their way to the shooter doesn't change their aggro target. We tested this; my cleric got aggro from a target in the distance and the melee beat on him as he made his way to me. Even after taking 90% more damage from a Paladin, the target still came after the shooter. There seems no way to take aggro from the shooter.

Thus giving rise to a whole new breed of intimi-chuckers. :D

Yay! I can finally tank again! Heavy armor, shield, and a throwing dagger. Thanks Turbine! /sarc

Horkster

[brian14]

Sorry, I should have specified a spell that could affect the target. I think you'd get an "immune" message in those cases and the effect wouldn't process. A Ranger could use Snare though - they'll still almost certainly save against and that will draw their aggro.

And as Hendrik said, the Bluff skill. It works great if you've put points into it.
AFAIK one problem with Bluff is that you must position yourself so that only one mob is in the line of sight, otherwise others will take notice. Is this true? And if it is true, does also hold true for spells?

[bsquishwizzy]

Sneak / Hide + Bluff Pulling.

Sneak within the range of a mob. Target mob, hit bluff and sneak backwards. Or pull them around a corner.

Works great...if you have a decent bluff score.

[Mercureal]

AFAIK one problem with Bluff is that you must position yourself so that only one mob is in the line of sight, otherwise others will take notice. Is this true? And if it is true, does also hold true for spells?

Bluff seems a bit variable - usually it only pulls the target, but sometimes nearby friends come along whether they see you or not; I'd guess it has to do with some hidden coding around certain monster groups. But to the point, you can bluff from outside normal aggro range, within stealth, and from around corners, so it's fairly simple to pull just the target. I haven't used the failed save method of pulling as much but I've never seen it draw a crowd, only the target. Though I'd suggest taking a bit of care with positioning in all circumstances when you're trying to pull an enemy selectively.

[droid327]

I Bluff-pulled before the change, but now that I get an auto-Bluff shot from DWS I dont invest in it anymore :)

The spell idea sounds interesting - might be worth it to carry a couple Wands of Mob Pull (Sleep? Ray of Enfeeblement?) in my bag now. Sounds more reliable than trying to tease them apart by shooting at the floor. What still works on red-names? I'm thinking right now of the three bosses at the end of VoN3...it was way easier handling them when I could take out the Beholder first, 1 on 1

[Mercureal]

There are a bunch of minor debuffs that can theoretically have an affect on a redname. Ray of Enfeeblement should work, along with Doom and Bestow Curse. Dispel Magic is a good one, since there is no save involved - I think it might even trigger aggro if there is no spell on the enemy, but I'm not 100% sure, should check this at some point.

[Cardoor]

Naw not like this anymore. You can toss your thrower at a mob as far out as you can see it and only hit that mob and still bring his pals over. I think this was a game mechanic change to help combat the prevalence of the ranged build.

He is talking about missing the mob...aiming at the ground or wall nearby (last scorp in Claw of Vulkoor for example).


Is it only with throwers or will bows/repeaters work the same?

Didn't see anyone answer the question about whether you can use arrows in addition to thrown weapons. The answer is yes, you can shot a wall near a mob with an arrow and have a mob investigate it. I did it accidentally in the subteranne (by auto attacking from a low angle) and pulled a mob to investigate.

[Holleyz]

What is the point in being a "SNIPER" if you cant snipe? I mean come on. When I was a sniper for our military I could pick off my target without the guy 3ft away even knowing his partner had even been hit. And when he did notice he had NO IDEA at what direction the bullet was fired from.

[Daitengu]

When I was a sniper for our military I could pick off my target without the guy 3ft away even knowing his partner had even been hit.How comes this? You should recognize the death of someone that near.
And when he did notice he had NO IDEA at what direction the bullet was fired from.But i guess you fire no bullets in this game and the arrow sticks out in a certain direction.

[RedOrm]

How comes this? You should recognize the death of someone that near.But i guess you fire no bullets in this game and the arrow sticks out in a certain direction.

What I did with my (solo) bard in E3BC was simply walk up to the mobs and retreat as soon as one of them noticed me. Most of the time that mob would be the only one to come after me.

Greetz,
Red Orm

[Talon_Moonshadow]

How comes this? You should recognize the death of someone that near.But i guess you fire no bullets in this game and the arrow sticks out in a certain direction.

It would totally depend on what they were doing at the time.
Especially where they were facing.

But also how much noise was made.
(and how much the friend pays attention to any weird noises.)

[PsychoBlonde]

Haven't been in game to try, but does Bluff still just agro single targets now?

Yep, bluff is still awesome.

[PsychoBlonde]

What is the point in being a "SNIPER" if you cant snipe? I mean come on. When I was a sniper for our military I could pick off my target without the guy 3ft away even knowing his partner had even been hit. And when he did notice he had NO IDEA at what direction the bullet was fired from.

I doubt you were standing out in the open less than 40 feet away which is usually the case in the game. It's not like your character is in a sniper's nest or similar concealed location wearing a ghilie suit.

[PsychoBlonde]

I Bluff-pulled before the change, but now that I get an auto-Bluff shot from DWS I dont invest in it anymore :)

The spell idea sounds interesting - might be worth it to carry a couple Wands of Mob Pull (Sleep? Ray of Enfeeblement?) in my bag now. Sounds more reliable than trying to tease them apart by shooting at the floor. What still works on red-names? I'm thinking right now of the three bosses at the end of VoN3...it was way easier handling them when I could take out the Beholder first, 1 on 1

You can also use invisibility against selected mobs--some see invisible while their comrades don't. Some will hear you but not see you when you're invisible and if mobs hear but don't see you they'll move toward you but not "aggro" so you can get them to follow you without getting their buddies.

[Psiandron]

The prior situation was the result of a borked mechanic.

Sniping takes patience.


What is the point in being a "SNIPER" if you cant snipe? I mean come on. When I was a sniper for our military I could pick off my target without the guy 3ft away even knowing his partner had even been hit. And when he did notice he had NO IDEA at what direction the bullet was fired from.

Really not at all the same thing.
You were probably 100s if yes away in full concealment with a scoped, silenced high powered rifle. See how well it works from .less than 50yds away in partial concealment at best with an arrow that goes thunk when it hits a guy and leaves 2 feet of arrow shaft stacking out of the guy.

[Chai]

Attacks that apply the bluff effect seem to work, as those are designed for that type of misdirection.

Just shooting the mob at a long distance atracts the attention of the group more often than not, when it used to attract the attention of the one mob being shot more often than not in the past. I think this is a good change. Put those crowd control abilities and movement based combat to the test.

[Ayseifn]

Sniping seems to work fine, as long as you kill with the first shot the group will just chill out where they are, getting taken out one at a time. If you fail to kill that's when they come after you.

[Oliphant]

Yeah, aggro is extremely weird now. I've been using DDoor tactics a lot lately, and now mobs will run back to the start of the dungeon to pursue me even though there's no line of sight.

That kind of makes sense for intelligent enemies, assuming you used the DD in their line of sight. They could deduce that you went to the beginning. Now, if you sprint to another area after the DD before they get back into line of sight and they still hone in on you, that would seem pretty fake. But knowing to run to the beginning (or even throw up their own DD) would be reasonable.

I hope the new AI considers the intelligence and communication style of the mobs. A smart group is not going to stand there like dummies when their friend standing next to them gets shot. A bunch of zombies or an ooze on the other hand may not communicate or have the smarts to figure out what's going on.

It would be cool if sniper range made it a lot harder for the mobs to pin point you. In that case they should start a search process but maybe not immediately ID the shooter.

[hp1055cm]

Really ??? Really ?? ...Do we really have to go from one end of the spectrum to the other ???? no middle ground (first no mob would do anything when his friend falls dead, now they all auto agro on the shooter ???)

+1

I am leveling up after a TR last week and the mob behavior is certain quests is completely different.
Everyone's opinion about how aggro SHOULD work aside, the most annoying thing is how much of a change there is to mob behavior. A subtle change would have been much better.
It is still broken - just broken differently now.


.

[Erdrique]

When I try to pull a single enemy, I generally try to do the "sneak and hear me" method like a few others mentioned. Although I haven't heard of trying to use a single target non-damaging spell to single pull a mob. Using a lower level wand such as sleep or charm spell would be an interesting method to use. I'll have to try that.