Looking for Druid advice

[Myrrae]

So, I'm preparing to try out druid with my friends. We will have myself, an assassin, and some sort of paly multi-class tank. We may have a fourth friend join as a wizard, but that's still TBD.

To date the most fun I've had playing has been on an instakilling sorc, but despite TRing, my friends & I have done very little 'end game'. Part of this is the fact that hirelings can't come into raids, and scroll healing only works so well. Part of it is of course, that most raids are not set up for 3 people and we tend to just go in shortman rather than find more people. And DC sorcs are not quite as awesome in EEs.

I greatly enjoy CC, although I think instakills count as CC :p I've been playing a necro cleric and loving it. Cleric has very little CC though, which has been noticeable in our EE ventures. My thought is that with druid I'll still be able to keep people alive on EE and any raids we venture into, as well as providing CC and some amount of damage. I will have a wiz PL and 3 sorc for the druid life, so my earthquake should be nice, and then all I will need is for Turbine to add the earthbind spell into the game so it will work on the fliers :p

So, the advice:
Feat choices - I assume the full line of spell focus evocation. What about spell pen? I also assume Empower Healing? Does maximize work on rejuv cocoon? What about Epic Feats? Is frogging things actually viable? Toughness optional, what about Mental Toughness? Dodge? ... Enlarge?

How will the druid healing be different? Right now I have radiant burst, but not aura. For standard fights, rejuv cocoon is as close as it goes for vigor type spells, and really it's awesomeness is more about temp hps and less about the regen factor. Will we all need to carry restoration potions around, since the burst won't be there to conveniently un-level drain?

Finally, is there anything I should go out of my way to acquire before TRing? I have the epic sage pieces, and one guardian ring, as well as the lower level versions. Should I get a Wall of Wood? Shadowsight? I have enough ingots to craft one kind of lousy thunder-forge weapon... but do I want lootgen cold & Negative sticks? cold & fire? Lightning? ... Should I actually make an effort for some sort of Greensteel? (I've done Shroud a few times, but I don't often look for it, so am woefully behind on crafting something useful)

[SirValentine]

I've been playing a necro cleric and loving it. Cleric has very little CC though, which has been noticeable in our EE ventures.


The main CC problem with Cleric is the current bug where a persistent-CC Cleric spell is not showing up on the Cleric spell list.

Cleric has several current decent CC options, but they're all instantaneous, instead of persistent, like their missing spell. Still, a well-placed Greater Command, Cometfall, or Soundburst can be effective.



Is frogging things actually viable?


I have zero build invested specifically in it, except the feat itself, but I get a sustainable 66 Frog DC, just from gear and universal stuff. Works well up to level 26 quests on EE (up to EE Wheloon). Not quite enough to be awesome in EE Storm Horns or Thunderholme raids. But a Druid could do even better, there's up to +3 just from enhancements, plus debuffs like Mantle of the Icy Soul.

Another nice thing about Mass Frog is that it works on things immune to other instakill effects, like EE Orange-Named mobs, or mobs that have cast Death Ward on themselves.

[Portalcat]

I have zero build invested specifically in it, except the feat itself, but I get a sustainable 66 Frog DC, just from gear and universal stuff.

The DC on Mass Frog is 20 + Wisdom Modifier. You are claiming to have a Wis modifier of 46, which corresponds to a Wis of 102.


I call shenanigans.



Mass frog is terrible on a druid in EE. I'm not sure if it's possible to get the sustainable DC out of the 40s.

[Munkenmo]

fwiw here's my build: (not shown: 3fighter lives, 3monk lives, 3sorc lives, 1wiz life)

human = 1 feat, monk = 2feats, wiz = 1 feat, heroic = 7 feats, epic = 3 feats, destiny = 2 feats Total = 14feats + 2 ED feats

1 druid Maximise, (H) Power Attack
2 druid
3 monk Wizard Pastlife, (M) TWF
4 druid
5 druid
6 druid Quicken
7 druid
8 druid
9 wizard Empower Healing, (W) Spell focus : Evocation
10 druid
11 druid
12 druid I Twf
13 druid
14 druid
15 druid Improved Crit Bludgeoning
16 druid
17 druid
18 druid G TWF
19 druid
20 monk (M) Stunning fist
21 epic Great spell Focus Evocation
24 epic Epic Spell focus Evocation
26 Perfect TWF
27 Mental Toughness (or empower, or heighten)
28 Epic Tactics

I've not bothered with spell pen, or necro DC's, Earthquake works on virtually everything, in all content. You don't get anywhere near the same buffs to (or spells to buff) your necro DC's as you as you do boosts to your Evo DC's / spells to lower your oppositions reflex saves. Trying to cast finger of Death in EE ultimately isn't worth the investment.

As for spell pen, being able to twist soundburst has made this slightly more useful than it was before the Divine ED overhaul. That said, Earthquake doesn't require spell pen checks, not that many mobs have spell pen to overcome, and you don't have that many (good) spells that require spell pen checks.

As you'll likely have noticed above, my builds a hybrid, it's got the full evo line + wiz life, but also has monk levels. In epics, I primarily run around in GMOF, I get great mileage from EIN & Drifting Lotus. It's definately a more party orientated build than it is a solo build, thus my twists normally involve Rejuv cocoon, Legendary Tactics, Soundburst & Sense Weakness. In most quests I can keep a party going with just Rejuv cocoons, Regenerate is good enough for the times someone's managed to get themselves neg-leveled, and mass regenerate is on my hotbar, but it's rarely used.

[SirValentine]

The DC on Mass Frog is 20 + Wisdom Modifier.


Plus anything else that affects all DCs or Transmutation DCs.



You are claiming to have a Wis modifier of 46, which corresponds to a Wis of 102.

I call shenanigans.


Call away. But first consider:

+6 Thunder Forged Transmutation
+3 from Exalted Angel
+2 Transmutation Augment
+1 for Arcane Initiate
+1 Ship Buff
+1 Shadow Caster armor

Once you add in that 14, that becomes a needed Wis modifier of only 32, for a Wis of 74.

I can get it higher short-term and/or with Bard help, but that's my sustainable level at cap.

And, as I said, an actual Druid could get it even higher.

Also, the annoying Spell Pen bug with Mass Frog, though I haven't yet tested the theory, I suspect a Druid might not experience it.



Mass frog is terrible on a druid in EE. I'm not sure if it's possible to get the sustainable DC out of the 40s.


It is possible. And a mid-60s DC works pretty nicely in things up to EE Wheloon. Not so much in EE Storm Horns.

[Portalcat]

Plus anything else that affects all DCs or Transmutation DCs.

This I did not know. It's not listed anywhere in the description, but it would certainly explain why the base DC is so lacking.



+6 Thunder Forged Transmutation
+3 from Exalted Angel
+2 Transmutation Augment
+1 for Arcane Initiate
+1 Ship Buff
+1 Shadow Caster armor

Once you add in that 14, that becomes a needed Wis modifier of only 32, for a Wis of 74.

You could get it into the 60s on a Druid but you'd need to build around it in ways that carry substantial tradeoffs.

If you go pure, there is +2 transmutation to be had from the capstone.


The problems you'd run into in getting your transmutation DCs up on a Druid are ones of tradeoffs. For one, Shiradi is just better on a caster druid unless you're a dedicated healer. The DPS difference is day and night, so you trade off a few DCs there to be massively more effective and killing things. The other is that it's hard to justify anything that comes at the cost of building for either evocation DCs and DPS, unless it is similarly good at endgame. If Mass Frog isn't good enough for Storm Horns, it's hard to justify giving much priority to it.

[Myrrae]

The main CC problem with Cleric is the current bug where a persistent-CC Cleric spell is not showing up on the Cleric spell list.

Cleric has several current decent CC options, but they're all instantaneous, instead of persistent, like their missing spell. Still, a well-placed Greater Command, Cometfall, or Soundburst can be effective.



Good point, and I have used all of them (Greater Command is not too bad against the annoying assassins), but coming from an arcane background, they are no web/disco ball. ... Truth told, nothing is quite like disco ball, since the rest don't make things dance. I always enjoy running Frame Work, just from the MEMORY of all of the dancing cows... Shake 'n Bake should hopefully be fun though. ... Even though Cleric should totally get Earthquake. And it should shake things up enough to throw them through the Blade Barrier ;)

Also, I appreciate knowing that the Frog is affected by Transmutation affecting DCs. Is it worth making Thunder-forge for this? Also, do you recommend dual wielding Thunder-forged items vs. a single staff?

I'm assuming I will build for evocation DCs, trying to think of what actually flies... Are there a lot of fliers in the Storm Horns? I don't remember many, but I don't know the quests overly well at this point.

[SirValentine]

Also, I appreciate knowing that the Frog is affected by Transmutation affecting DCs. Is it worth making Thunder-forge for this?


It's sure not worth grinding to Tier 3 for...but if you have enough ingredients for another Tier 2 Thunderforged, sure, why not? Don't need to use it as a full-time stick, just swap it in, cast Mass Frog, swap back. And, since it has an Orange slot, you can put your +2 Transmutation augment on it, too.

Though if you don't want to bother, it shouldn't be hard to find lootgen sticks with +4 or even +5 Transmutation DC.



Also, do you recommend dual wielding Thunder-forged items vs. a single staff?


A single 2-hander gets you +1 extra DC to all schools, which is really nice. But two 1-handers gives a bit more flexibility to mix-and-match for different situations. It's a trade-off.

For a Wisdom-based DC-caster, an Alchemical weapon with +2 Alchemical Wisdom can make up for missing the extra +1 DC on a 2-hander...but that's a tough grind when Lord of Blades is seldom run anymore.

Personally, since I ALREADY had an Alchemical, I went with a 1-hander, but if I didn't I think I would have gone with a 2-hander.

[Myrrae]

I've not bothered with spell pen, or necro DC's, Earthquake works on virtually everything, in all content. You don't get anywhere near the same buffs to (or spells to buff) your necro DC's as you as you do boosts to your Evo DC's / spells to lower your oppositions reflex saves. Trying to cast finger of Death in EE ultimately isn't worth the investment.

As for spell pen, being able to twist soundburst has made this slightly more useful than it was before the Divine ED overhaul. That said, Earthquake doesn't require spell pen checks, not that many mobs have spell pen to overcome, and you don't have that many (good) spells that require spell pen checks.

As you'll likely have noticed above, my builds a hybrid, it's got the full evo line + wiz life, but also has monk levels. In epics, I primarily run around in GMOF, I get great mileage from EIN & Drifting Lotus. It's definately a more party orientated build than it is a solo build, thus my twists normally involve Rejuv cocoon, Legendary Tactics, Soundburst & Sense Weakness. In most quests I can keep a party going with just Rejuv cocoons, Regenerate is good enough for the times someone's managed to get themselves neg-leveled, and mass regenerate is on my hotbar, but it's rarely used.

Just curious, what do you find is the biggest advantage of monk here? Is it for the evasion + added damage? How do you think that would compare to say, taking FvS levels and going more light focused?

I was just assuming pure druid, on account of normally it makes sense for casters, but there is definitely something to be said for multi-classing in this game.

[Munkenmo]

Just curious, what do you find is the biggest advantage of monk here? Is it for the evasion + added damage? How do you think that would compare to say, taking FvS levels and going more light focused?

I was just assuming pure druid, on account of normally it makes sense for casters, but there is definitely something to be said for multi-classing in this game.

I wanted the ability to do some melee, without reducing my Evo dc's.

2monk nets: +2 wisdom, +4 dodge (+1 water stance, +3 ninja spy = 8 dodge), 2 feats (stunning fist and 2wf), 10% extra off hand procs, evasion's a factor but it's not very useful in the hardest content.

FVS doesn't get +2 wisdom, nor does it gain any feats, I very rarely use the light spells so the fvs splash offers nothing to a DC druid the way I play it essentially 2 FVS just costs me a DC.

Stunning fist is is based on character level and wisdom, I've got a 76DC stunning fist at cap, it's a pretty nifty tool to have in my arsenal.

My melee damage isn't exactly world beating, but I find that considering my primary role is CC and healing, it's good enough.