Introducing New Airships & Amenities

[DrOctothorpe]

We’re very pleased to announce a significant revamp to our guild airship and amenity systems in Update 22. Let’s get right to the headlines:


An entirely new and different set of Amenities
(Don’t worry, the old ones you’ve got won’t be taken away!)
New amenity buffs aren’t lost on death, will pause in public and on logout, and last much longer in general
A “buff bar” on the top deck will grant buffs for all installed amenities
Max Guild level goes to 200
Six new airships, even bigger than the current six
Current airships get their lower decks overhauled, to accommodate new amenities


Read on for details…

New Amenity Spaces
You won’t just drop the new amenities somewhere on the floor. When placed, each amenity will fill its space with deco. The ships are laid out with series of “Holds” designed to hold one amenity each. Airships will also feature “State Rooms” – extra-large spaces that could house more ambitious amenities, like a complete Cannith Crafting set, for instance, or all the elemental resist buffs in one place.

Even Holds are packed with value: on average, they’ll come with several benefits. For instance, one amenity holds a mailbox, a banker, and an auctioneer. Another, the Arcane Sanctum, offers Saves vs Enchantments, Max SP, and Spell Penetration bonuses.

And by and large, bonuses are simply better. The single caveat is that where appropriate, buffs now scale to level. In addition, some amenities, such as elemental resists, come in tiers. The very top tiers don’t just offer flat elemental resistances, but percentage resistances instead! Another aspect that’s being improved is duration. As stated above, these buffs won’t go away on death. They’ll start lasting for a couple of hours, and as your guild goes up, that duration will increase.

What about the old amenities? We’ve reserved a special cargo hold for them. Any contracts you’ve got can be placed there and used for as long as they last.

https://www.ddo.com/sites/default/files/PlacingAmenity.jpg
Placing an amenity…


https://www.ddo.com/sites/default/files/AmenityLook.jpg
Once placed, an amenity can change the look of a space!

https://www.ddo.com/sites/default/files/Showtime.jpg
And it’s showtime!

Airship Alterations
While the upper decks will look fairly familiar (a little larger, freshly swabbed), the lower decks will be entirely new. As mentioned, the layouts will feature “Holds”, extra-large “State Rooms”, and a cargo hold dedicated to legacy amenities. The smaller airships will have one lower deck (plus the cargo hold), while the largest ones will have a two or more lower decks worth of amenities. Naturally, this makes the one-stop buff source on the upper deck even more useful. Where we can, we’re working hard to do one better: for example, if you have the Farshifter amenity installed below, the Captain will automatically offer to take you to Farshifter locations. Other services, like vendors and crafting equipment, don’t really translate to any top deck presence. Our ships are laid out for convenience, though. You’ll be able to place an Orien Express (mail, auction, bank) Hold right next to your Cannith Crafting Stateroom.

And finally, browsing and buying new airships is getting a new face in the form of a UI panel.

https://www.ddo.com/sites/default/files/AmenityHolds.jpg
Thar be amenity holds… over thar!

https://www.ddo.com/sites/default/files/EngineRoom.jpg
Our new engine room. This one runs on eight cylinders.


Obtaining Amenities
As mentioned above, the new amenities are permanent. Once you’ve got them, you keep them. Of the 40 new amenity types, you’ll be able to buy about 75% of them for Platinum, directly from your airship.

You’ll be able to obtain the remaining amenities as follows:

1. They will almost all appear in quest end reward lists. A few of these will be rare drops.
2. You will be able to buy them for Astral Shards from your airship

Now the amenities found on quest reward lists will go into your personal inventory, but most amenities will never touch player inventory space. We’ve created a new guild inventory concept, to hold our permanent amenities when they’re not placed. Using an amenity deed from your inventory, on your airship, will move it into that guild inventory space.

Guild Levels
The big news is that guild levels are extending to 200. Let’s break out how this will work:


The Renown XP curve will pretty much flatten after 100*
Any banked renown for level 100 guilds will apply
Through a series of tricks, Airship and amenities now unlock, on average, earlier and easier than before
New airships and other items will continue to unlock through Guild Level 150
We are turning guild decay on for levels 150-200 ONLY: these are bragging rights levels
For bragging level guilds, your guild title text will change different colors in recognition of your status
You’ll be able to find out what the highest ranked guild on your server is


* Fun fact: if we didn’t flatten the Renown curve, you would need a cumulative 4 Billion Renown to reach 200.

In Closing
Any change as substantial as this comes with more details than we could reasonably fit in a post. Questions and concerns are welcome below. We’ll answer all that we can.

Cheers,
Dr#


https://www.ddo.com/sites/default/files/Amenity_Throne.jpg

[Kamode_Corebasher]

Thanks Devs and DDO team!

[patang01]

Any change as substantial as this comes with more details than we could reasonably fit in a post. Questions and concerns are welcome below. We’ll answer all that we can.

Cheers,
Dr#

I must say I'm impressed and I approve. This is an excellent way of pleasing everyone. But there is one thing I just can't stand about decay - first - I understand that this is a compromise. It allows people to reach a good level and yet for those who are into status chasing try to achieve it. But it's still a fairly dumb idea. That 'fame' somehow is so fickle. Now it is good that the 'buffs' are permanent. That removes the one problem with decay that 1 minute you have x level and after a Mabar you're down and can't buy or use some buffs.

However this system still falls on the one and perhaps single most terrible thing - you are essentially wasting your for real money guild potions unless you're also in a dedicated guild that play so much they can overcome the decay effect.

And that's a terrible system; selling guild potions where the progress is often times wasted simply because you have events like Mabar and such. I get what you're trying to do here, but it still falls foul on the principle of creating events that will have guilds lose guild levels just because the very events do not provide renown.

I don't know if you thought about it; if you were willing to overlook this for a system that would satisfy status chasers but still be attainable for a majority of average guilds with the few elitist ones hitting 200.

Personally I don't know what the big deal is about by allowing anyone to hit whatever guild level eventually. Anyways, my 2 cents.

[Khorae]

This looks great. Well done.

What exactly are the series of tricks that will unlock amenities and ships?

[Mercureal]

But what about the Black Abbot, and why is he on our airship? :)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t31.0-8/1979273_10203933687043199_5760434419294343845_o.jp g

[UurlockYgmeov]

I like overall ... but what about the bacon content? Does it still scale to the level of the guild?

[Claver]

Exciting Changes Turbine….


Any way to name our ships? Even something as simple as a message when we zone in via the airship tower door would suffice.

I know I and a few of my guild mates would pay good money for a ship naming feature

[BOgre]

Looks really cool. Not sure i understand how getting/applying amenities works, and guild inv space too. I'll hafta take a look on Lamma. Still, sounds awesome.

[Ivan_Milic]

Will those new amenities that drop be bound?

[Postumus]

Hold right next to your Cannith Crafting Stateroom.

What what what?

That sounds cool.

[Mercureal]

Oh, and since I forgot to mention it, I definitely like the changes, convenience and quality of life updates are always appreciated.

[UurlockYgmeov]

SO what about guild slotted items? Will U22 stop the sale of the augments? or change them in any way?

Finally - what about guild management upgrades?

[Roland_D'Arabel]

Dr. O, could you please give a few examples of new amenities and costs of those amenities. I know that these costs are not set in stone yet, but I would like to see a few examples so we know what we are going to be paying. It goes a long way to getting excited about things if the costs are not astronomical. Please, give a few examples of plat amenities and shard amenities.

[Ivan_Milic]

The Renown XP curve will pretty much flatten after 100*


* Fun fact: if we didn’t flatten the Renown curve, you would need a cumulative 4 Billion Renown to reach 200.



How much xp you gonna need for 1 lvl after 100, 1 million each lvl?

[enochiancub]

Well this little nerd is certainly excited. Looking forward to checking it all out.

[Krelar]

And by and large, bonuses are simply better. The single caveat is that where appropriate, buffs now scale to level. In addition, some amenities, such as elemental resists, come in tiers. The very top tiers don’t just offer flat elemental resistances, but percentage resistances instead! Another aspect that’s being improved is duration. As stated above, these buffs won’t go away on death. They’ll start lasting for a couple of hours, and as your guild goes up, that duration will increase.


Now that you are adding even more percent bonuses, have you considered adding some of these percentages to the character sheet so we can see exactly what our totals are? There are quite a few now that it would be nice to know. Fort bypass, threat, healing amp, spell critical, and now with new buffs the soon to be very common elemental absorption.




Airship Alterations
While the upper decks will look fairly familiar (a little larger, freshly swabbed), the lower decks will be entirely new. As mentioned, the layouts will feature “Holds”, extra-large “State Rooms”, and a cargo hold dedicated to legacy amenities. The smaller airships will have one lower deck (plus the cargo hold), while the largest ones will have a two or more lower decks worth of amenities. Naturally, this makes the one-stop buff source on the upper deck even more useful. Where we can, we’re working hard to do one better: for example, if you have the Farshifter amenity installed below, the Captain will automatically offer to take you to Farshifter locations. Other services, like vendors and crafting equipment, don’t really translate to any top deck presence. Our ships are laid out for convenience, though. You’ll be able to place an Orien Express (mail, auction, bank) Hold right next to your Cannith Crafting Stateroom.


Will the "buff bar" be druid wolf and artificer dog friendly? (aka a usable object rather than dialog based) Having to rebuff my pet every single time I log in is one of the more annoying issues I have with the current set up.

[Madja]

*snip*

Only the 150-200 levels have decay and the way I read it these levels grant no buffs, but instead they give you prestige, i.e. colored guild titles.
If that is indeed the way it works then I see no problem with renown decay.

[Madja]

What about the old amenities? We’ve reserved a special cargo hold for them. Any contracts you’ve got can be placed there and used for as long as they last.


Does this mean that once they've run out, we're no longer able to obtain them? I'm a bit worried about losing the flat elemental resist buffs. They're very useful for dots like Burning Blood and Melf's Acid Arrow while a % reduction isn't as useful.

[Garix]

How much xp you gonna need for 1 lvl after 100, 1 million each lvl?

Not 100% sure but my new level 200 guild is showing as having 283,125,000 xp :eek:

[Garix]

Does this mean that once they've run out, we're no longer able to obtain them? I'm a bit worried about losing the flat elemental resist buffs. They're very useful for dots like Burning Blood and Melf's Acid Arrow while a % reduction isn't as useful.

At the moment at least you can still buy them on Lam

[Garix]

Couple of initial thoughts.

Placing of the new amenities is very hit and miss. Sometimes the hotspots work, sometimes they don't.

Only way of getting the buffs from the seems to be using the button on top deck to get all buffs (not a major issue)

The old amenities are still 60 minutes and count down in public areas. They are also not being applies with the "Buff all" button.

Not sure about having all the old style amenities on the lowest floor. I liked having quick access to bank/tavern as soon as I'd loaded onto the ship.

It all looks very very nice though :)

Still investigating

[Kerthyn]

Looks pretty good so far.

Instead of guild decay, have you considered using guild renown as a type of currency to buy Amenities and cosmetics for the guild ships?

[patang01]

Only the 150-200 levels have decay and the way I read it these levels grant no buffs, but instead they give you prestige, i.e. colored guild titles.
If that is indeed the way it works then I see no problem with renown decay.

Except for the portion where you can waste purchased renown boost. I don't care one way or another - my guild will never see the 200s and after all these years we're not even capped. I just see a bad pointless mechanic but I understand why they're doing it.

[Extispex]

Does this mean that once they've run out, we're no longer able to obtain them? I'm a bit worried about losing the flat elemental resist buffs. They're very useful for dots like Burning Blood and Melf's Acid Arrow while a % reduction isn't as useful.

"some amenities, such as elemental resists, come in tiers. The very top tiers don’t just offer flat elemental resistances, but percentage resistances instead!"

Don't buy the top tiers, and you should have your flat resists. :)

[TeacherSyn]

Sounds wonderful! The buff-all button alone will make many happy.

I've always wished that the bunks or sleeping areas actually worked as such, where a character can click on it to sleep, restoring all HP and SP and resetting ki as if at a rest shrine, removing any negative effects (and any temp buffs). I do love the scenic changes. Keep working on making the ship more interactive and you'll keep us happy.

Love the renown idea. Encourages guild teamplay like the old renown system.

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

Does this mean that once they've run out, we're no longer able to obtain them? I'm a bit worried about losing the flat elemental resist buffs. They're very useful for dots like Burning Blood and Melf's Acid Arrow while a % reduction isn't as useful.

Currently yes, once you run out they are gone. We won't be selling the old ones anymore.
Any that you have in storage you can of course use, and there is a room to use them in the basement of the ship.

[slarden]

When I heard guild changes were coming with U22 I decided to hold off purchasing renown elixirs in case bringing back decay was part of the change.

After reading your post, I think the changes are outstanding and show that you've been reading comments from the guild renown official topic and other threads. I am buying elixirs again.

Thank you! I really like the new system.

[Madja]

"some amenities, such as elemental resists, come in tiers. The very top tiers don’t just offer flat elemental resistances, but percentage resistances instead!"

Don't buy the top tiers, and you should have your flat resists. :)

Yeah, but then I wont have the percentage ;D

EDIT: D'oh... Looks like they're going away.

[Teh_Troll]

I would pay real money for a BBQ pit with a halfling roasting.

[Captain_Wizbang]

What about the old amenities? We’ve reserved a special cargo hold for them.


Aye, to the bilge with ya. And be quick about it, or I'll be floggin ya smartly.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm299/chefricochet/inside-hold-bilge.jpg

Seriously, I like and welcome the change.

[DrOctothorpe]

All righty. Let's answer some question!


What exactly are the series of tricks that will unlock amenities and ships?

Amenities will be unlocked via guild level, as of old. However, we've pushed the level requirements down a bit, on average. In addition the few that cost Astral Shards will also occasionally be found in quest end-reward lists.


But what about the Black Abbot, and why is he on our airship?
He's completely harmless, I assure you. The benefits are worth the risks. If anything does happen, the Llyrandar legal team will be reaching out to you for a comfy settlement.


I like overall ... but what about the bacon content? Does it still scale to the level of the guild?

Bacon has been meticulously maintained on the 6 existing airships during their renovations. We are still investigating possible bacon quantities for the 6 new ships. (There is a bacon shortage (http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/national-international/Bacon-Prices-Pork-Shortage-Mysterious-Virus-Kills-Pigs-Piglets-254418611.html) threat, after all.)


Will those new amenities that drop be bound?

I don't want them to be. The only reason we would bind them is if we felt their was an overwhelming exploit issue. So probably not.


Dr. O, could you please give a few examples of new amenities and costs of those amenities.

Unfortunately, costs are something we'll be looking to over the next few weeks. So I've got nothing for you, yet. Keep in mind that they're permanent, so by all accounts they should be worth more than the old time-limited contracts.


How much xp you gonna need for 1 lvl after 100, 1 million each lvl?
We're currently leaning towards literally fixing it at the cost of going from 99 to 100, and using that up to 150, minimum. If it's not that in the end, it will be something similar.

[Impaqt]

Does this mean that once they've run out, we're no longer able to obtain them? I'm a bit worried about losing the flat elemental resist buffs. They're very useful for dots like Burning Blood and Melf's Acid Arrow while a % reduction isn't as useful.

The resist spell and resist items are not going away.

30pt undispellable resists were grossly overpowered. we survived without them before ships. we'll adapt when they are gone and the game will be better without them as far as I'm concerned.

[Ebondevil]

Currently yes, once you run out they are gone. We won't be selling the old ones anymore.
Any that you have in storage you can of course use, and there is a room to use them in the basement of the ship.

OMG Noes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess I'll have to umm, loose a couple of Character Slots to stockpile them or something... Doh! :(

Unless there's going to be a replacement amenity which gives the same benefits, cause Personally I think percentage resists kinda suck...

[DrOctothorpe]

I believe it was in the release notes, but I'll re-mention it here: NPCs and buff interacts within the amenities are all not placed yet on Lamannia at the moment.

Many of the amenities will come with vendors, including a Deneith Ammo vendor, reagent vendors, brokers, and other useful things.

[Flavilandile]

Only the 150-200 levels have decay and the way I read it these levels grant no buffs, but instead they give you prestige, i.e. colored guild titles.
If that is indeed the way it works then I see no problem with renown decay.

No buff is tied to the levels above 150. Just a color that changes with level.


Yeah, but then I wont have the percentage ;D

The percentage is supposed to be stacking with items, spells, scrolls and potions...
While the flat value wasn't stacking, with the biggest shrine you had +30 and that was it... Unless you had a better items ( in that case the shrine was useless for you ).

[Erdrique]

Definitely looks interesting. I know I will like not having to worry about re-stocking the ship now. Looking forward to seeing the costs and guild level requirements for each amenity.

[madmaxhunter]

The resist spell and resist items are not going away.

30pt undispellable resists were grossly overpowered. we survived without them before ships. we'll adapt when they are gone and the game will be better without them as far as I'm concerned.

Game has changed. Used to be you could toss on a poison immunity item and run amok. 30 res shrines were earned, especially by the guilds that didn't cheat their way to the top. Ioun stones at level five. Will that be your next complaint?

All in all very nice changes Doc.

[Scraap]

Any chance of seeing the new buffs auto-applied to pets/summons? (Would probably not include charmed enemies). It's one of those things that tends to end up making them lag behind mechanically when it comes to duration of utility.

[UurlockYgmeov]

was playing- love the fact you can now get guild renown from whathisface... :D

couldn't find where to buy new ships though.

[lumpilein1973]

At first glance, looks amazing, and most changes and additions seem to tie together in a coherent fashion. Except for one:

There will be a special legacy buff area on one of the lower decks, but guilds won't be able to purchase any of the old amenity tokens once the new buffs are introduced. Did I understand this correctly?
If I understood correctly, I would argue that it really doesn't make a lot of sense to dedicate time and effort into designing a legacy buff area if the legacy buffs are not purchasable anymore. Sure, we can stock up on stuff for a few months, but after that stock runs out, the legacy area seems to not serve a purpose anymore.
--------------------

A question not related to guild ships and amenities, but to guilds in general: in the social panel, guild tab, we can organize the list of character names displayed by class/level/rank/member/area/last on. Is there ANY way to add an account tab or something similar--something that allows guild admins/leaders/officers to group together all the characters belonging to the same account? At times, for whatever reason/s, it becomes necessary to remove an account. Despite the fact that we have a thread on our website, with a list of characters associated with each account, it is nearly impossible to know which characters belong to which account. Lists like the one we are trying to maintain and keep updated will ALWAYS be incomplete. This would be a really helpful feature for any guild and the folks trying to keep things organized. Oh, and make the list exportable if possible.

[UurlockYgmeov]

love the fact that it allows for some additional recognition - but black is really hard to read.

[Impaqt]

Game has changed. Used to be you could toss on a poison immunity item and run amok. 30 res shrines were earned, especially by the guilds that didn't cheat their way to the top. Ioun stones at level five. Will that be your next complaint?

All in all very nice changes Doc.
I actually never complained about the resist shrines in the first place... Only stated the fact that they are overpowered (Mostly in low level heroic content)


They are largely useless in epic content. I welcome the upgrade.

[DrOctothorpe]

Any chance of seeing the new buffs auto-applied to pets/summons?

The buff bar on the top deck will automatically grant buffs to any pets you have summoned, as well.


couldn't find where to buy new ships though.

There will be a shiny new UI in the airship showroom. It's not ready yet though (we have a term we call "programmer art." it is not meant as a compliment). Hopefully the next prop to Lamannia, we'll be able to show it off.



Instead of guild decay, have you considered using guild renown as a type of currency to buy Amenities and cosmetics for the guild ships?

That's an idea we're holding onto, and might possibly make use of for Future Things... in the Future. We felt that using guild decays in level 150-200 could capture the original idea of guild competition in a space that wouldn't have any of the adverse effects.

[Tentaki]

All this sounds pretty great. Compliments where they're deserved!

[danotmano1998]

Thanks for all the work on this!!

Pretty excited about ye olde ship getting a facelift, and playing with all the new shinies.

Superb work, from the looks of the screenshots.


One again... THANK YOU!

[Desonde]

Everything sounds great, just one question.


The very top tiers don’t just offer flat elemental resistances, but percentage resistances instead!

The above statement is ambiguous; Do the top tiers offer a flat elemental resistance that scales with level plus a percentage based reduction, or only a percentage base reduction?

If the latter, is it possible to have a lower tier to grant the flat resistance and the upper tier for percentage?

[Mercureal]

All righty. Let's answer some question!


But what about the Black Abbot, and why is he on our airship? :)

He's completely harmless, I assure you. The benefits are worth the risks. If anything does happen, the Llyrandar legal team will be reaching out to you for a comfy settlement.

Something seems off about this, fishy, suspicious even. Out of nowhere we get the offer for a fabulous upgrade of our existing airships, with the proviso that it comes with a psychotically evil animated corpse that wants to be a God and who has ample reason to also want massive and cataclysmic revenge on us? But he's harmless, as sworn to by the airship dealer's team of high-priced lawyers?

Uh huh, right, I take it back, that sounds perfectly reasonable. No convoluted evil conspiracies going on here at all. :)

[UurlockYgmeov]

The buff bar on the top deck will automatically grant buffs to any pets you have summoned, as well.

Sweet! The next round of grog is on me!



There will be a shiny new UI in the airship showroom. It's not ready yet though (we have a term we call "programmer art." it is not meant as a compliment). Hopefully the next prop to Lamannia, we'll be able to show it off.

:D thought as much - still impressive! poor DDOWIKI is going to need massive updates! :P



That's an idea we're holding onto, and might possibly make use of for Future Things... in the Future. We felt that using guild decays in level 150-200 could capture the original idea of guild competition in a space that wouldn't have any of the adverse effects.

Like this and that both.

[Istarian]

Granted that I never used an airship much, I still have to say that I kind of liked the way it has been. It really made sense for the npc amenities (navigator, etc?) to be at some fixed point in the ship. After all, you hired an NPC, you don't necessarily have a separate room for them. In addition, it would be kind of sad if the stuff like navigator and planescaller was just integrated into the captain (if it was separate npcs before). Having multiple nopcs on your ship seems like it adds something. Not to have that seems like it would kill some of the feel (like removing flavor text from a dungeon or something).

I hope the amenities will be scaled in size for different size airships, because it really shouldn't be bigger on the inside than the outside. Unless they're all just a fixed size. Maybe they're different ones for different "size", but it just seems like that room with the bard might be bigger, have more chairs on a larger airship.


Also, talking to the vendor (having a conversation) made sense for buying an airship and I liked the holographic models. I hope this gui panel thing isn't replacing all of that. It would be cool if you could actually go into a demo airship or something rather than just look at the hologram.

*It'd really be nice if you could sit in/stand up from chairs in the game in general. :) Not being able to when NPCs can feels very tacky. And the sit emote does not make up for it.

[Shoemaker]

:D thought as much - still impressive! poor DDOWIKI is going to need massive updates! :P




You're more than welcome to get updating, and let me know if you need any assistance with that... http://ddowiki.com/page/User_talk:Technical_13

[tharveysinjin]

Unfortunately, costs are something we'll be looking to over the next few weeks. So I've got nothing for you, yet. Keep in mind that they're permanent, so by all accounts they should be worth more than the old time-limited contracts..

So, is that possibly a way to tell us that amenities, once unlocked, will be available for purchase in the DDO store?

[Ghoulstorm]

In all honesty, if this was all there was to the update, I'd be quite happy. Getting Epic 3BC as well just pushes it into new heights of awesomeitude.

[EllisDee37]

I'm liking a lot of this quite a bit.

One question: If ship buffs pause in public areas, does that mean they no longer work in public areas? If so, that will be a nerf. (No ship buffs for Mabar / Cove when farming turn-ins to open the next instance. Lots of legitimate combat going on there in public areas. Also, and this is a big one, no xp shrine when turning in sagas?)

Personally, I would rather that ship buffs expire on death and logout, and have no timer at all. (By "on logout", I mean using the same 15-minute grace period that clickies use, where if you restart the client nothing changes but if you take a while to get back online everything is reset to as if you just shrined.)

The key benefit to a timer-less buff system that expires on death and logout is that it will give you a reason to go to your ship (for buffs) when you first log in for a session, and then you don't need to go back for the rest of the session. With any kind of timer system we're going to still have people saying "need to rebuff" in the middle of quest chains.

EDIT: Unless of course they died, which would mean they'd need to rebuff. But that's an inconvenience I'm very much in favor of. A "walk of shame", as it were.

[DrOctothorpe]

So, is that possibly a way to tell us that amenities, once unlocked, will be available for purchase in the DDO store?

Nope! They'll be available for Astral Shards at the new amenity hookpoints, and they'll go directly into your guild's inventory. Which isn't a big difference, I think... depending on how you feel about the DDO store.

And to repeat: most will simply be available for Platinum. Most of the few that cost Shards will also be found in quest end reward lists.

[Gizeh]

[...]

New amenity buffs aren’t lost on death, will pause in public and on logout, and last much longer in general

[...]

I'd love to see this being applied to the buffs that can be purchased from the house P / house J vendors as well.

[tharveysinjin]

Nope! They'll be available for Astral Shards at the new amenity hookpoints, and they'll go directly into your guild's inventory. Which isn't a big difference, I think... depending on how you feel about the DDO store.

And to repeat: most will simply be available for Platinum. Most of the few that cost Shards will also be found in quest end reward lists.

Can you tell us which ones will not be available for platinum? For those that can nly be purchased with shards, can you tell us what the chance is that they will appear as a quest end reward?

[ZenPuppy]

The buff bar on the top deck will automatically grant buffs to any pets you have summoned, as well.


Does that include the buffs from people that require dialog options? Or is that a mechanic also being disposed of?

Also, on an unrelated question, the music looking room. Are those instruments going be playable by bards? And if so, will there be a compelling reason to do so more than once out of curiosity? :D

[Lifespawn]

I personally do not like that the buffs don't go away on death it makes for sloppier play there is no personal negative to a death in a quest now just the group 10% loss.

[Thar]

And by and large, bonuses are simply better. The single caveat is that where appropriate, buffs now scale to level. In addition, some amenities, such as elemental resists, come in tiers. The very top tiers don’t just offer flat elemental resistances, but percentage resistances instead!



overall sounds good but the resis part sounds like the ghostbaned armor changes....

[EllisDee37]

Does that include the buffs from people that require dialog options? Or is that a mechanic also being disposed of?Reading between the lines, if you're asking about artie/druid/wizard pets getting ship buffs:


The buff bar on the top deck will automatically grant buffs to any pets you have summoned, as well.

[Ovrad]

can you tell us what the chance is that they will appear as a quest end reward?

Is it "Augment drop" rare? Or "+2 fate tome" rare?

[Scraap]

The buff bar on the top deck will automatically grant buffs to any pets you have summoned, as well.





New amenity buffs aren’t lost on death, will pause in public and on logout, and last much longer in general



"Have Summoned" conflicts with what I would presume is the intent behind "not lost on death" though, for balance purposes. In the case of a PM summon (no rez allowed) or needing to kickstart an Artificer or Druid pet by a re-summon, to be more explicit about it. (Observationally, they sometimes stall out when it comes to their command-queue, particularly after teleport/ladder-climb attempts. A re-summon corrects that.) If it's low priority, by all means. But something to keep in mind when stating that kind of thing in the future.

[ZenPuppy]

Reading between the lines, if you're asking about artie/druid/wizard pets getting ship buffs:

I read that. I'm trying to figure out if that would also grant them the buffs from the people (which they currently CAN'T get because of the dialogue options) or just the ones currently available to them (stat and resistances only). The between the lines part is wondering whether they'll get rid of the dialog requirement so if I did want to stroll around the ship to ogle and gather buffs if I'd also need to stop at the buff bar on the way off to collect the ones the pet wasn't able to get. :)

[kazeikan]

I'm liking a lot of this quite a bit.

One question: If ship buffs pause in public areas, does that mean they no longer work in public areas? If so, that will be a nerf. (No ship buffs for Mabar / Cove when farming turn-ins to open the next instance. Lots of legitimate combat going on there in public areas. Also, and this is a big one, no xp shrine when turning in sagas?)

Personally, I would rather that ship buffs expire on death and logout, and have no timer at all. (By "on logout", I mean using the same 15-minute grace period that clickies use, where if you restart the client nothing changes but if you take a while to get back online everything is reset to as if you just shrined.)

The key benefit to a timer-less buff system that expires on death and logout is that it will give you a reason to go to your ship (for buffs) when you first log in for a session, and then you don't need to go back for the rest of the session. With any kind of timer system we're going to still have people saying "need to rebuff" in the middle of quest chains.

EDIT: Unless of course they died, which would mean they'd need to rebuff. But that's an inconvenience I'm very much in favor of. A "walk of shame", as it were.

Very good points.

[pjstechie]

If i find (loot) a guild ship amenity that would require a higher level than my guild is to use it, can we still use it?

[Scraap]

One question: If ship buffs pause in public areas, does that mean they no longer work in public areas? If so, that will be a nerf. (No ship buffs for Mabar / Cove when farming turn-ins to open the next instance. Lots of legitimate combat going on there in public areas. Also, and this is a big one, no xp shrine when turning in sagas?)


Could check the CoV count with ship-buffs and without. Same principle applies there.

[Hendrik]

Far more then I had hoped for or was expecting!

Very excited about this!

:)

And U22 is when? Month time-frame is great, no specific day/date needed and thank you!

[gorocz]

Well, looks like it's time to part ways with my old guild, in which I've been basically the only one pushing renown, and join one of those fancy pants level 100 guilds. Big fish in a small pond no more...

[merentha]

Is it "Augment drop" rare? Or "+2 fate tome" rare?

I'm also ok with Shadowfell Conspiracy (U19) Ghostbane-rare though....


At least for the 3 updates right afterwards, then they can drop it to update 21 Ghostbane-rare

Come on...y'all chuckled.

[Ebondevil]

I'm liking a lot of this quite a bit.

One question: If ship buffs pause in public areas, does that mean they no longer work in public areas? If so, that will be a nerf. (No ship buffs for Mabar / Cove when farming turn-ins to open the next instance. Lots of legitimate combat going on there in public areas. Also, and this is a big one, no xp shrine when turning in sagas?)

Personally, I would rather that ship buffs expire on death and logout, and have no timer at all. (By "on logout", I mean using the same 15-minute grace period that clickies use, where if you restart the client nothing changes but if you take a while to get back online everything is reset to as if you just shrined.)

The key benefit to a timer-less buff system that expires on death and logout is that it will give you a reason to go to your ship (for buffs) when you first log in for a session, and then you don't need to go back for the rest of the session. With any kind of timer system we're going to still have people saying "need to rebuff" in the middle of quest chains.

EDIT: Unless of course they died, which would mean they'd need to rebuff. But that's an inconvenience I'm very much in favor of. A "walk of shame", as it were.

Pretty much agree with everything here, no timer, and loss on death makes a lot more sense, more a penalty for death than some arbitrary timer.

[Lanadazia]

NICE!
very very big like!
hopefully this will make every 1-15 content more challengeable even for multi-TRs
cause right now you just take shipbuffs and get 'immune to to Quest' in lower levels

the scaling energy resist is just what i expected this update to be (well, actually an artifact bonus or something that will stack with actual energy regist on equipment)
this makes fireproof etc items and resist augments more interessting!!

also will there be a spiritbinder on the airship? would be super awesome! less porting, more time to play :)

nice nice nice updates. you convinced me already :)

[Bargol]

Wait a minute....it sounds like all the old guild buffs are going away. So what happens with the space on the top of the ship?

My guild has all convenience items like banker, auction, bar, mailbox, travel, dummy, and a couple common resists top side for easy access. Will we now have to go into the belly of the ship for this stuff? If so thats a big fail.

The current highest level ship has huge open wasted space topside with amenities crunched into small spaces, will this be addressed and made better?

[hunzi2010]

Something seems off about this, fishy, suspicious even. Out of nowhere we get the offer for a fabulous upgrade of our existing airships, with the proviso that it comes with a psychotically evil animated corpse that wants to be a God and who has ample reason to also want massive and cataclysmic revenge on us? But he's harmless, as sworn to by the airship dealer's team of high-priced lawyers?

Uh huh, right, I take it back, that sounds perfectly reasonable. No convoluted evil conspiracies going on here at all. :)

Bwhahahaha,

thats funny. Now where do I buy my new mop from, this new ship set up is going to take ages to keep clean...lol

[Paisheng]

I am excited by the upcoming changes for guildships you are proposing. Is there in the works a special cabin for the captain and maybe officers that offer a special buff for them only. It would make more folks want to own a ship for one and reward all the hard work of those officers and captain. Secondly will there be special class related buffs perhaps available. Monks get another + maybe to there unarmed attacks, clerics a special healing + buff, etc.

Thanks for you hard work.

[MangLord]

I don't know how this hasn't been mentioned....

Will we be able to teleport directly to Eveningstar from the ship?

The current system is insanely clunky and makes no sense. I need a special key with a 1/2 hour timer on it (and don't forget anything you'll need or you have to wait for it to cool down), or do a 4 quest chain to punch a hole in the harbor to get there, but I can get back to anywhere in Stormreach with a simple teleport scroll. Logging in and out through the Hall of Heroes is equally terrible. I can teleport back, so why can't I teleport there?

Make it a high level amenity if you feel you must keep the key and hall of heroes useful. I feel like shooting my computer in the face when I accidentally move while using my key, or I forget to buy wands of dispel magic.

Will there be poison and light/negative resists, or are we still on our own without evasion for those?

[Ebondevil]

Currently yes, once you run out they are gone. We won't be selling the old ones anymore.
Any that you have in storage you can of course use, and there is a room to use them in the basement of the ship.


OMG Noes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess I'll have to umm, loose a couple of Character Slots to stockpile them or something... Doh! :(

Unless there's going to be a replacement amenity which gives the same benefits, cause Personally I think percentage resists kinda suck...

Okay, less Panicked now I've had a chance to see them, seems they have two Resistance buffs, two absorption buff and two spellpower buffs all rolled into one amenity (and there's 3 of them to cover the 5 basic elements and maybe Light as welll?), which will stack with the resist spell, kinda yummy.

[BOgre]

Yes, I'm really liking the Amenities I've seen so far. Bath House, Training Room, Wild Grove, all very cool. 1st Deck is buggy for me though, can't activate the hookpoints or turn visibility on/off at all while on 1st deck. Some of the amenities I put on the Gryphon moved over to the Typhoon when i upgraded, and the ones that got plunked onto 1st deck are stuck there.

Also, I'm hoping very very much that all the bonuses will be made Guild bonus type, and stackable with regular items, gear, Enhancements and Epic Destinies.

[MangLord]

Also, I'm hoping very very much that all the bonuses will be made Guild bonus type, and stackable with regular items, gear, Enhancements and Epic Destinies.

Agreed. For example, the current hobgoblin damage buff doesn't stack with a deadly item, so he's pretty much useless.

[Tinman.pl]

What about battleships?
What i really want to see and what i really want to put my hands on is my guild's ship rudder and cannons. To be able, with my whole guild, to fight other guilds on their own ships, in the air.
Boarding enemy ship using planks, lines and abundant steps. Blowing your new eight cylinders engine with fireballs, arrows or with cleverly, sneaky rogue mechanics.

That, my dear devs, would be a huge reason to stay around and make some mess.

[Nayus]

Really nice, could as well permanently remove the Resist Energy spell from the game.

[Ryethiel]

One question: If ship buffs pause in public areas, does that mean they no longer work in public areas?

Experience Elixirs pause, but they continue to work. Feels like they would work the same way?

[The_Human_Cypher]

Experience Elixirs pause, but they continue to work. Feels like they would work the same way?

Most likely. Buffs will continue to be applied in public areas (such as for the Haggle skill) but the clock will pause.

[Fecel]

Ok, My question would be with inventory space(IE guild chests) will they grow with level? As in will there be one chest from levels 50-75, then two 76-10, and so on. Or will there be any changes to this???

And will there be changes to bank space for account/Char(toon), with bigger ships maybe there will be more room to store your things.

[Arnez]

I see that ships are being added- will the current ships change? (aside from internals & spacing)

Specifically: The Stormglory line of ships and the upgrade/progression. I dislike the idea of purchasing a Stormglory ship with astral shards and have the next larger ship be a Windspyre.
Will there be a different progression of ships?

[whereispowderedsilve]

I see that ships are being added- will the current ships change? (aside from internals & spacing)

Specifically: The Stormglory line of ships and the upgrade/progression. I dislike the idea of purchasing a Stormglory ship with astral shards and have the next larger ship be a Windspyre.
Will there be a different progression of ships?

Excellent question! I 2nd this worry as well! :P! :)! :D!

[Douglas21]

I have one big question: Are there any current guild buffs that will NOT be completely redundant with new amenities? In other words, will the legacy buffs deck be merely a place to do something with old contracts other than throw them away, or will it be a place guilds that stockpiled contracts can use to gain mechanical advantage? I would much prefer a level playing field with no point to stockpiling, and it's the one major sticking point before I declare this change to be good.

A more minor issue: Putting all the buffs below decks is fine with the new buff bar on top, but the most frequently used convenience items need to also be on the top deck or a large part of their convenience will be gone. Please confirm that the bank, tavern, mailbox, and auctioneer will still be able to be placed on the top deck, where no loading screen will be involved in accessing them after entering the airship.

[EllisDee37]

Experience Elixirs pause, but they continue to work. Feels like they would work the same way?Oh, right, great point. No issue then.

[Tecc]

You’ll be able to find out what the highest ranked guild on your server is


If only there was an API, such that the all-knowing Oracle might run with the ball once again…

Great looking update though.

[Roland_D'Arabel]

A more minor issue: Putting all the buffs below decks is fine with the new buff bar on top, but the most frequently used convenience items need to also be on the top deck or a large part of their convenience will be gone. Please confirm that the bank, tavern, mailbox, and auctioneer will still be able to be placed on the top deck, where no loading screen will be involved in accessing them after entering the airship.

^^This.

More than a minor issue IMO. These convenience amenities need to be easy access with no added load screens.

[Bargol]

Why do ships need to have loading screens anyway? At most you might have 20 or so people on a guild ship at a time.

Seems like instances like the marketplace can handle much more then that so why all the loading screens.

[alvarego]

I personally do not like that the buffs don't go away on death it makes for sloppier play there is no personal negative to a death in a quest now just the group 10% loss.

Well I thought they would stone first person to say this, but seems like not, I also dislike the idea of no punishment at all for death, we get 2+ hours duration, not tic-tac on public areas, and also go on after dying, is too much on my opinion, I know is convenient and all but people has to keep an eye on game to make it interesting, I mean after first death on a quest what stops you now to die again or your groupmate to die? no further penalty ... you have to lose something when you die, is not like it's permadeath but something.

Could we get feedback on this matter by the staff?

PS: everything else sounds great ;-)

[Portalcat]

So, any details yet on what any of the new amenities actually do?

[Seikojin]

I really love the changes to the ships. Everything about them I like. Awesome job.

The main deck, is it losing hookpoints entirely (placing them below deck)?

Also you said old amenities are being phased out... What will the old hookpoints be used for?

I like that some new amenities are drops in game.

I also really like how plat can be added to a guild account to maintain or buy amenities. AS should be added as well (since some can be bought that way).

I did not find where the 6 new ships are. I think in game someone mentioned they weren't up yet.

[Seikojin]

So, any details yet on what any of the new amenities actually do?

Alchemical boosts to stats, doublestrike, dc's, spell pen, etc. There are a lot and one ship cannot hold them all.

[Seikojin]

Well I thought they would stone first person to say this, but seems like not, I also dislike the idea of no punishment at all for death, we get 2+ hours duration, not tic-tac on public areas, and also go on after dying, is too much on my opinion, I know is convenient and all but people has to keep an eye on game to make it interesting, I mean after first death on a quest what stops you now to die again or your groupmate to die? no further penalty ... you have to lose something when you die, is not like it's permadeath but something.

Could we get feedback on this matter by the staff?

PS: everything else sounds great ;-)

You get an exp penalty when you die.

I am indifferent about the buffs disappearing or not when you die. I like it, but if they did, it wouldn't make me like them any less. They are useful and utility, get used as such, and help where gear or build is lacking.

[zaragoth911]

by chance can u save a spot up top for the training dummy? I love killing time killin that thing

[dunklezhan]

I love everything except two things:

1 I don't like that they persist through death. If you die, losing your buffs is part of the cost. Xp pots and the like from the store is one thing but ship buffs should simply be "persist until death", no timer required.

2 I like that resist buffs scale, that's badly needed to prevent no challenge at the lower levels. But I don't like that the option to but flat resists is being removed. Could we not have two types of buff we could buy? Resist being a scaling flat rate (10 20 30 like the spell) OR " reduction" which gives a percentage based buff determined at the time of purchase? Both should be able to be on a ship at once if there's room, since that reduces available space for other buffs which is self balancing as far as I'm concerned.

Everything else: awesome.

[Tscheuss]

I'm liking a lot of this quite a bit.

One question: If ship buffs pause in public areas, does that mean they no longer work in public areas? If so, that will be a nerf. (No ship buffs for Mabar / Cove when farming turn-ins to open the next instance. Lots of legitimate combat going on there in public areas. Also, and this is a big one, no xp shrine when turning in sagas?)

Personally, I would rather that ship buffs expire on death and logout, and have no timer at all. (By "on logout", I mean using the same 15-minute grace period that clickies use, where if you restart the client nothing changes but if you take a while to get back online everything is reset to as if you just shrined.)

The key benefit to a timer-less buff system that expires on death and logout is that it will give you a reason to go to your ship (for buffs) when you first log in for a session, and then you don't need to go back for the rest of the session. With any kind of timer system we're going to still have people saying "need to rebuff" in the middle of quest chains.

EDIT: Unless of course they died, which would mean they'd need to rebuff. But that's an inconvenience I'm very much in favor of. A "walk of shame", as it were.

Guild renown pots still work with timer paused. One can see this in Smuggler's Rest. :)

[DemonStorm333]

All righty. Let's answer some question!



Amenities will be unlocked via guild level, as of old. However, we've pushed the level requirements down a bit, on average. In addition the few that cost Astral Shards will also occasionally be found in quest end-reward lists.


He's completely harmless, I assure you. The benefits are worth the risks. If anything does happen, the Llyrandar legal team will be reaching out to you for a comfy settlement.



Bacon has been meticulously maintained on the 6 existing airships during their renovations. We are still investigating possible bacon quantities for the 6 new ships. (There is a bacon shortage (http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/national-international/Bacon-Prices-Pork-Shortage-Mysterious-Virus-Kills-Pigs-Piglets-254418611.html) threat, after all.)



I don't want them to be. The only reason we would bind them is if we felt their was an overwhelming exploit issue. So probably not.



Unfortunately, costs are something we'll be looking to over the next few weeks. So I've got nothing for you, yet. Keep in mind that they're permanent, so by all accounts they should be worth more than the old time-limited contracts.


We're currently leaning towards literally fixing it at the cost of going from 99 to 100, and using that up to 150, minimum. If it's not that in the end, it will be something similar.

im a bit confused as of no on lamaland once I obtain a amenity and swap it out I perminatly get access to place and replace every one that I have in the guild storage type thing correct or wil we have to keep buying them when we replace one??

[Qhualor]

sorry if this was asked and answered, but im not in the mood to search the entire thread. will ship buffs be unique and stack with gear and other buffs?

[Lifespawn]

You get an exp penalty when you die.

I am indifferent about the buffs disappearing or not when you die. I like it, but if they did, it wouldn't make me like them any less. They are useful and utility, get used as such, and help where gear or build is lacking.


Everyone gets the xp penalty there is no personal loss it just leaves no negative to playing sloppy if I play smart and don't die I get the same bonus at the end of the quest as the guy that died 30 times it just doesn't make sense.

[CaptainSpacePony]

We’re very pleased to announce a significant revamp to our guild airship and amenity systems in Update 22. Let’s get right to the headlines:

And by and large, bonuses are simply better. The single caveat is that where appropriate, buffs now scale to level. In addition, some amenities, such as elemental resists, come in tiers. The very top tiers don’t just offer flat elemental resistances, but percentage resistances instead!


Although I haven't seen any of this yet, let me say BRAVO! I have long promoted this sort of change. (OfC I'm nervous now that I'm getting what I asked for).

[The_Human_Cypher]

Alchemical boosts to stats, doublestrike, dc's, spell pen, etc. There are a lot and one ship cannot hold them all.

I think one of the devs mentioned that the largest of the new Astral Shard ships will have a hook for every available amenity. The largest shard ship should also be available at any Guild level for purchase but the Guild will be limited as to what hooks they can populate until Guild Level 150.

[CaptainSpacePony]

Well I thought they would stone first person to say this, but seems like not, I also dislike the idea of no punishment at all for death, we get 2+ hours duration, not tic-tac on public areas, and also go on after dying, is too much on my opinion, I know is convenient and all but people has to keep an eye on game to make it interesting, I mean after first death on a quest what stops you now to die again or your groupmate to die? no further penalty ... you have to lose something when you die, is not like it's permadeath but something.


PS: everything else sounds great ;-)

I agree. Buffs should go away upon death.

[CaptainSpacePony]

Except for the portion where you can waste purchased renown boost. I don't care one way or another - my guild will never see the 200s and after all these years we're not even capped. I just see a bad pointless mechanic but I understand why they're doing it.

Personally I welcome the return of decay. I found it to be the most flavorful and interesting thing about renown and guild levels. Increasing the ML from 26 to 150, while not my 1st choice, seems like a terrific compromise. Well done.

[Sgt_Hart]

The Key to the City - Eveningstar can once again be used on guild airships.

How about in addition to that.. ya'll sneak in a big shiny one In place of "Battlemaster Dint: You have grown exceedingly strong. We have not yet devised a reward befitting of someone of your accomplishments. Speak with me at a later time, when such a prize has been contrived. (http://ddowiki.com/page/Favor#Purple_Dragon_Knights)" That functions as an airship buff and ports to the hall of heroes in FR, hmmm?

[WanderingGrump]

Convenience items like the Banker, AH, Tavern, Mailbox need to be available on the top deck. The whole point of converging on the ship is to make travel easier and handier. The fact you will end up having to do loading screens down to lower decks and then back out before you can hit your destination is not a good thing. The fact you can't teleport from the lower decks is wrong too, as they seem to be a teleport locked area. Kudos though on combing the transport options on the Captain in one spot instead of having 3 transport guys on the ship, that one is a very welcome change.

That being said the artwork arrangements you guys have spent to create the look of the amenities I have to give you kudos on definitely.

Also I found that to manipulate/change hookpoints I could do one then have to log before I could get it to access again. At times placing an amenity caused crippling client lag to the point that it made the client itself resort to (Not Responding) via the titlebar in Windows for a moment then finally un-lags itself. None of the tool tips have anything useful to say and many of the descriptions of the buffs really aren't listed properly. I am sure most of that will be fixed but there is a bunch of work left to do.

Also I noticed there was no Stone of Change amenity in the new buffs and while that seems minor it is something from the old system that some of us still use all the time. I really don't want to have to go to the Marketplace/Twelve to do what I need to. Our Guild earned a Stone of Change a long time ago, there's no need to take it away.

[Dewboy691]

I've always said that for every NON guild member that jumps on your guilds ship ship have plat pulled from their account and put into a guild account where amenities can be purchased from. For instance I jump on guild ships ALL the time since my single man guild is only 49 and I would have no problem adding 5 plat or 10 plat to the coffers so I can get the resists and buffs. It could even be triggered when the first buff is used so if someone tries to hijack a "Could I get a ship invite, pls?". Heck, it could even be 2+ plat per buff.

Another quick suggestion is having the flags that are flapping in the wind have the name of the guild on them. ADVERTISE your guild!!!

That's it.

Thanks all!

[Ivan_Milic]

How long will new amenities last once you buy it?
These ones we have now last 7 days per buy.
Also could you put option to buy all amenities you have on ship currently, so we dont have to buy one by one when we want to extend them.

[EllisDee37]

How long will new amenities last once you buy it?
These ones we have now last 7 days per buy.
Also could you put option to buy all amenities you have on ship currently, so we dont have to buy one by one when we want to extend them.The OP says they're permanent. Buy it once and then never think about it again.

[Ivan_Milic]

The OP says they're permanent. Buy it once and then never think about it again.

That is good.
They will probably cost a lot of pp then.

[Ebondevil]

That is good.
They will probably cost a lot of pp then.

From what I saw, if you remove them from their hookpoints, they go into the guild inventory and can be placed on any appropriate hookpoint.

[Ivan_Milic]

From what I saw, if you remove them from their hookpoints, they go into the guild inventory and can be placed on any appropriate hookpoint.

How much do they cost?

[DrOctothorpe]

I see that ships are being added- will the current ships change? (aside from internals & spacing)
Specifically: The Stormglory line of ships and the upgrade/progression. I dislike the idea of purchasing a Stormglory ship with astral shards and have the next larger ship be a Windspyre.
Will there be a different progression of ships?

1) The interiors of the current 6 ships will be updated to accommodate the new amenities.
2) EITHER the new six ships will keep the Stormglory and Windspyre lines as they've been OR there will be one or two entirely new and different lines of ships.


Ok, My question would be with inventory space(IE guild chests) will they grow with level? As in will there be one chest from levels 50-75, then two 76-10, and so on. Or will there be any changes to this???

Hopefully, we will be able to offer multiple tiers of Guild Bank amenities, each with more storage. We're looking into whether or not there are technical hurdles to doing so.


The main deck, is it losing hookpoints entirely (placing them below deck)?
Also you said old amenities are being phased out... What will the old hookpoints be used for?

There will be now hook points on the top deck. HOWEVER! Some amenities will cause changes to what you can do on the top deck. For instance, if you've installed a Farshifter's Chamber, the captain will offer to send you to Farshifter locations as well. We're still working on the final list of top-deck effects like this.


im a bit confused as of no on lamaland once I obtain a amenity and swap it out I perminatly get access to place and replace every one that I have in the guild storage type thing correct or wil we have to keep buying them when we replace one??

When you swap it out, it goes into your guild inventory. It never goes away, runs out, or expires, as long as your guild lasts. So yes, if you buy a new ship, your amenities are transferred.


will ship buffs be unique and stack with gear and other buffs?

Most (I don't have the actual numbers in front of me) of the buffs will be Guild typed bonuses, meaning they will stack. As you can imagine, we've rearranged many of the values to what you'd expect from that kind of bonus.

[Ebondevil]

How much do they cost?

The prices all looked like placeholders, with everything costing either 10 plat, or 10 Astral Shards.

[Stoner81]

EITHER the new six ships will keep the Stormglory and Windspyre lines as they've been OR there will be one or two entirely new and different lines of ships.

How will this affect guilds who have saved up the Platinum and stored it at the airship vendor for the next ship? This is what the guild I am in has done, we are waiting to reach level 80 and buy that ship for Platinum. Will the costs change for the new ships? Will it just be for Astral Shards?

Stoner81.

[Fnordian]

The guild amenity changes are very welcome and all sound great.

All buffs at once and pausing in public are especially welcome, and the longer duration can't hurt too.

Also, I seem to suffer from the dreaded death buff curse. Almost every time I buff my characters at a higher guild level ship (my own guild being only level 45) they end up dying in the quest. If I don't buff, they don't always die. Perhaps with the buffs not expiring on death, this will finally lift the death buff curse. That said, while I don't think buffs vanishing on death is unfair (and I wouldn't complain if it was changed back so they did), I also don't think that having them vanish helps the enjoyment of the adventure in any way (either for the player or their party), so all things considered I'm happy for this change.

I would also like to add my voice to those asking if the mailbox, tavern, and banker could all be on the top deck somehow (as an option). If space-saving is needed, perhaps there could be one NPC or station on the top deck with a dialog box letting you select which of those three amenities to access (with the full graphical versions of each amenity below deck)?

[Hendrik]

Would like to add my voice in that I also think that Guild buffs should be like all other buffs, drop upon death.

[Munkenmo]

What will happen to items in our guild chests when our current chests expire and we have no way to buy the old guild chest amenity?

[somethingtosay]

:)

[CeltEireson]

So if I understand it correctly - buffs are 'better' (haven't been able to get on to Lamannia yet to see how many types and what level the buffs are), will be undispellable, wont be removed on death, last two hours and stop counting down whilst in public areas? Why not go the whole hog and just make them permanent for every member of the guild, don't need to even have actual visuals for the various buff amenities - just autogrant them- because that's effectively what you are giving - a permanent increase in power to characters based on guild level. Same was true to a limited extent for the existing system but the buffs disappeared on death, were minor (apart from resists at low level) and lasted a fairly short period of time so there was an element of inconvenience.

Simply put you're putting people with no guild or low level guilds at a disadvantage, of course it depends on how powerful the buffs are and the types available, but even if they're on slightly better than current buffs its still a disadvantage for those who can't access them. And, of course, if they are reasonably powerful at high levels, there's the question of whether future quests will be balanced with them in mind.

It would help greatly if you could actually give a list of the various buffs available, what level they are at various character levels, and also how many buff amenities are available on the larger ships tyo allow us to judge.

Don't get me wrong, I like new toys for our guild ship, and I use the current buffs on ours, although mainly for lower levels; and I have no issues at all with convenience amenities such as bank, guild chest, navigator etc. And maybe I'm overreacting but I am a lil worried about guild buffs being too good, and how that effects others that don't have access.

And the cynical part of me is thinking that this is a great opportunity to get a quick influx of cash from sales of astral shards for the new ships, gold seal versions of the amenities and the introduction of hmmm superior and sovereign guild exp potions to help less active guilds get to high enough levels to get the useful buffs and for larger guilds to get to 200 for bragging rights ;) but then maybe I'm just getting jaded.

[slarden]

Overall, these are really great changes
- The new buffs are fantastic - not overpowered but useful
- The buffs pausing in public areas is fantastic. There will be no reason to wait to the last minute to buff which will save everyone time.
- The fact that players can keep buffs upon deaths is extremely helpful for newer and casual players that tend to die more. Understand the arguments against it, but I think the benefits for casual and new players far outweigh those concerns. It also means we won't have to wait for them to rebuff between quests.
- The press one-button feature for buffs - brilliant - my favorite of all the changes

There is one slightly less convenient part about the new system I would like to note. We currently have a mail box, bank, tavern, mail box and stone of change on our top deck. As I understand these will be on the lower decks now. Please consider changing it so that if someone buys the amenity with the mail box, putting the mail box on the top deck as well. If I had to prioritize I would say bank and tavern are the most important.

Ideally when going to our ship the things I am most likely to do is use the bank, tavern and get buffs. If all those could be done on the top floor it would be fantastic.

One last note - the UI is buggy I had to keep switching floors and turning hookpoints off and on to be able to purchase. I am sure that will be corrected.

Thank you much!

[Hendrik]

What will happen to items in our guild chests when our current chests expire and we have no way to buy the old guild chest amenity?

You buy a couple before U22 and place them on the old hookpoints in the basement.

Take all the items out and move to new chest.

Let old chest expire.

Not rocket science....

;)

[CeltEireson]

Hmmm thinking about it more, in terms of those who don't have access to guild amenities or are in low level guilds - how about doing a similar revamp of the favour buffs from the House vendors. If you add in some similar to lower level guild buffs and of the same type so they don't stack that way non-guild folk at least have the chance at some of the buffs but they just have to work for them (though you do have to work for guild status, just in a different way ;) .

Although regardless I do think the patron buffs need some work anyway as the vast majority of them are useless past low levels.

[Shmuel]

superior and sovereign guild exp potions to help less active guilds get to high enough levels to get the useful buffs and for larger guilds to get to 200 for bragging rights ;)

Currently the minimum amount of daily decay for level 200 is 239,000 reknown a day, and that is only if it does not scale with guild size. Pots or not, I will be genuinely surprised if any guild on any server makes it to level 200 without them re-evaluating this formula.

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

With ships, and amenities now permanent I believe there is one thing you need to add to the ships, something that I have wanted for quite a while. Spirit Binders. We can bind in any tavern but... what about binding on the place you and your guild call home, your ship. Just a thought that seems reasonable, not overpowered starting on your ship by the barkeep, bank, mailbox, auction house, cannith crafting hall, etc.

[Robai]

The Renown XP curve will pretty much flatten after 100*
Any banked renown for level 100 guilds will apply
Through a series of tricks, Airship and amenities now unlock, on average, earlier and easier than before
New airships and other items will continue to unlock through Guild Level 150
We are turning guild decay on for levels 150-200 ONLY: these are bragging rights levels
For bragging level guilds, your guild title text will change different colors in recognition of your status
You’ll be able to find out what the highest ranked guild on your server is


* Fun fact: if we didn’t flatten the Renown curve, you would need a cumulative 4 Billion Renown to reach 200.


And elitist guilds will be even more elitist ...

[Shmuel]

And elitist guilds will be even more elitist ...

I disagree. Since the decay will be so huge as to preclude any desire for me to try and get levels above 150, I'm inclined now to accept more ppl into my guild so as to get more reknown and get to 150 faster. For that matter I suppose I'll say we are in open recruitment as of now for ppl on Argo looking for a guild..

[The_Human_Cypher]

I disagree. Since the decay will be so huge as to preclude any desire for me to try and get levels above 150, I'm inclined now to accept more ppl into my guild so as to get more reknown and get to 150 faster. For that matter I suppose I'll say we are in open recruitment as of now for ppl on Argo looking for a guild..

What Guild are you in? I am on Argo as well.

[Shmuel]

What Guild are you in? I am on Argo as well.

Firefly

[Jatner]

I'd love to see this being applied to the buffs that can be purchased from the house P / house J vendors as well.

I'd love to see a new mechanic for these buffs. At the moment its rarely worth the effort of running all the way over to get the buffs from these vendors. Perhaps a massively increased duration and the same "in quest only" timer as the new guild buffs. Give people a reason to make it worth paying them a visit

[Munkenmo]

You buy a couple before U22 and place them on the old hookpoints in the basement.

Take all the items out and move to new chest.

Let old chest expire.

Not rocket science....

;)

Thanks....

I wont be logging in before u22, ive got as chests on my boat full of alchemical blanks that appear to be doomed, your suggestion is not an acceptable one to me.

[Ivan_Milic]

And elitist guilds will be even more elitist ...

If the guild is elite, they wont change no matter what.

[Kadriel]

No one posted yet some of the stuff we can find? I'm curious but I need to update my lam client yet...

[xaul17]

I love these changes to the guild ship, this is something that I have been hoping for for a very long tome!

Now here are my questions (and concerns):

1. I notice that there is a teleporter amenity that can be added. Will we be able to teleport TO the ship if we have this amenity on board?
2. So once all the old buffs are gone, will the cargo area just be an empty room used for nothing?
3. Some of the buffs say "your guild connection grants you bonuses..." Is this just a placeholder for what the buff does, or is this something entirely different?
4. The Stormglory Tempest seems to be broken. I was looking at ships, and when I tried to board this one, I fell right through the top deck and into the water. I'll put in a bug report for this too, but I wanted to post it here just in case it happens to get overlooked.
5. I'm assuming the new airships will be level 100+, or will they be available at lower levels too?
6. What are the plans for the current level requirements for the ships that we already have? Will they be changed at all? (this I would assume not, but figured I'd ask anyway.)
7. Are there any changes planned for the current guild tab UI? You guys are adding a lot of rewards, and it would be nice to have them included in the rewards UI listing.
8. Also on the subject of that mentioned above, will there be Guild Fame Announcements for levels above 100?
9. I notice that in the guild tab UI there is a string table error underneath the guild name. Any hint as to what this will be used for?

And here are my suggestions (some may have been mentioned already, I didn't read the entire thread):

1. Please, please, PLEASE add a guild message board! Just a simple addition maybe on the top deck so that we can view/post messages regarding guild raids or other events that we have planned. This is something that would be immensely helpful!
2. I love how easy you guys made it to get the buffs, though I would like to see bank/auction/mail on the top deck as well.
3. Add a spirit binder to the tavern amenity!
4. Add some more customization features!

And thats all I have for now. I'm sure some of my questions have been asked already (and perhaps answered already).

Thanks for the time!

[Ivan_Milic]

No one posted yet some of the stuff we can find? I'm curious but I need to update my lam client yet...

You misunderstood it just like me.
You can buy all buffs from ship, but only 75% of them for pp, rest that you can buy for as will drop.

[Augon]

The changes to the ships are great.

I am wanting to experiment with the same ship my guild has on Sarlona, but that one costs Astral Shards. Is there somewhere on Lamannia server I can find Astral shards just laying around like I can plat?

I love the "Easy" button for the ship buffs, but it does make it rather pointless to actually visit the rooms that are giving those buffs. If the Devs do put the post office and other things like that on the top deck as some have suggested, what would be the point to ever going down stairs? I guess you would need to in order to make a GS weapon at the alters, but other than that, all that wonderful effort the Devs put into making the new buff rooms will go to waste.

I have an idea for this issue. Why not give a secondary use for the buffs. For example the puzzle room could generate a random puzzle from the game that players can solve. once solved another puzzle randomly appears. It would also be cool for the puzzles to not be random, but selectable to allow us to learn and practice puzzles without relying on 3rd part sites to do it. most of the buffs could do similar things. their could be combat simulators like the one in the test dojo, etc.

Thanks team for your hard work!

[Ebondevil]

The changes to the ships are great.

I am wanting to experiment with the same ship my guild has on Sarlona, but that one costs Astral Shards. Is there somewhere on Lamannia server I can find Astral shards just laying around like I can plat?

Speak to Lord Poincelot (near the plat piles in the Test dojo) he will give you 10k TP for Lamma, then you can buy some Astral Diamonds to break down to shards.

[Augon]

Speak to Lord Poincelot (near the plat piles in the Test dojo) he will give you 10k TP for Lamma, then you can buy some Astral Diamonds to break down to shards.

Thanks!

[Augon]

OK, I understand that I bought it at a discount (only 1000 Shards), but I must complain about the shoddy workmanship of my new Stormglory Tempest. As soon as I walked on deck, the planks gave away and I fell straight down into the water below!

I have tried entering my new airship several times and each time, as soon as the ship finishes "drawing", I fall straight down into the water. I did not see any mention of it on the known issues.

Is this a bug? (in which case I will report it and mention it on the bugs forum) Is there something I am doing wrong? Is it something that I just need to wait a bit longer and it will correct itself? I already tried logging off and back in with the same results.

Thanks!

[Arnez]

OK, I understand that I bought it at a discount (only 1000 Shards), but I must complain about the shoddy workmanship of my new Stormglory Tempest. As soon as I walked on deck, the planks gave away and I fell straight down into the water below!

I have tried entering my new airship several times and each time, as soon as the ship finishes "drawing", I fall straight down into the water. I did not see any mention of it on the known issues.

Is this a bug? (in which case I will report it and mention it on the bugs forum) Is there something I am doing wrong? Is it something that I just need to wait a bit longer and it will correct itself? I already tried logging off and back in with the same results.

Thanks!

Gotta be a bug. Tried it with 2 accounts. First time went right through. I thought it might've been a problem with recently quitting another guild (that had the Large Airship)

Logged in with 2nd account, got TP, bought charter, created guild -though I only leveled it to 63- bought small Windspyre- was able to walk onto it and see lower deck & cargo hold. Purchased Medium Windspyre -again was able to walk onto ship and see lower deck & hold. Upgraded to Stormglory Tempest and boom- phased right through. Can almost click on the door before passing though, but I'm not fast enough.

[tharveysinjin]

1) The interiors of the current 6 ships will be updated to accommodate the new amenities.
2) EITHER the new six ships will keep the Stormglory and Windspyre lines as they've been OR there will be one or two entirely new and different lines of ships.



Hopefully, we will be able to offer multiple tiers of Guild Bank amenities, each with more storage. We're looking into whether or not there are technical hurdles to doing so.



There will be now hook points on the top deck. HOWEVER! Some amenities will cause changes to what you can do on the top deck. For instance, if you've installed a Farshifter's Chamber, the captain will offer to send you to Farshifter locations as well. We're still working on the final list of top-deck effects like this.



When you swap it out, it goes into your guild inventory. It never goes away, runs out, or expires, as long as your guild lasts. So yes, if you buy a new ship, your amenities are transferred.



Most (I don't have the actual numbers in front of me) of the buffs will be Guild typed bonuses, meaning they will stack. As you can imagine, we've rearranged many of the values to what you'd expect from that kind of bonus.

Perhaps you missed my question Dr Thorpe. Can you tell us which amenities will be available either for purchase through Astral shards, or from loot drops? For these, what will the drop rate be? My gut tells me that the amenities we will all want will fall into this category and that the drop rate will not be high. I know you said that price for these has not yet been determined, but, surely someone knows which amenities will cost Astral Shards.

[DANTEIL]

the new Guildship stuff looks really interesting.

My question is whether there will be any changes in the minimum guild levels needed to purchase guildships?

[HAL]

"Have Summoned" conflicts with what I would presume is the intent behind "not lost on death" though, for balance purposes. In the case of a PM summon (no rez allowed) or needing to kickstart an Artificer or Druid pet by a re-summon, to be more explicit about it. (Observationally, they sometimes stall out when it comes to their command-queue, particularly after teleport/ladder-climb attempts. A re-summon corrects that.) If it's low priority, by all means. But something to keep in mind when stating that kind of thing in the future.

I definitely hope that buffs will remain on pets if you have to dismiss and resummon. My iron defender also goes away if I switch to another character and then back to my arti so I have to resummon.


With ships, and amenities now permanent I believe there is one thing you need to add to the ships, something that I have wanted for quite a while. Spirit Binders. We can bind in any tavern but... what about binding on the place you and your guild call home, your ship. Just a thought that seems reasonable, not overpowered starting on your ship by the barkeep, bank, mailbox, auction house, cannith crafting hall, etc.

A spirit binder would be great.


the new Guildship stuff looks really interesting.

My question is whether there will be any changes in the minimum guild levels needed to purchase guildships?

It seems like there was some mention of this but I would like a clarification also.

[fangblackhawk]

the guild ship and buff changes look to be awsome!!! good job on them, i rather like that many of them stacked as "guild" type buffs like to old guild augs did,. the size of the ship was awsome...though the ship looked empty on top with just a button and a captian and a (now use less) first mate, could we maybe put a hook point butten next to him and have him thell you about it?? also had issues with adding buffs once i did foind the button... many many log in and outs after leaving ship to add more than a couple oom buffs at a time, and quite a few of the new buffs had no buff just an icon.

Also of not in my guild we always get all the stats and resists on the ship to help all guildys no mater there lvl or quest they are doing, the idea of a buff that is geared twords a spacific raid is good... but i would prefer a more across the board feel to them instead of two buffs that give resist electric and one gives cold and the other gives acid... some fleshing out of the roundness of these will make this a truely awsome update of things!!

[Seikojin]

No one posted yet some of the stuff we can find? I'm curious but I need to update my lam client yet...

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441927-List-of-the-new-Guild-Amenities has a list.

[Arnez]

What about the old amenities? We’ve reserved a special cargo hold for them. Any contracts you’ve got can be placed there and used for as long as they last.


What are the future plans for the cargo hold after the few weeks (months) that it would take for the old amenities to run out? Are the actually functional? Will they stack?
Some reports from Lam say they don't work at all. (I didn't get to see since I was having issues with my Stormglory Tempest's Dematerialization Circuit)

[Fnordian]

And here are my suggestions (some may have been mentioned already, I didn't read the entire thread):

1. Please, please, PLEASE add a guild message board! Just a simple addition maybe on the top deck so that we can view/post messages regarding guild raids or other events that we have planned. This is something that would be immensely helpful!
2. I love how easy you guys made it to get the buffs, though I would like to see bank/auction/mail on the top deck as well.
3. Add a spirit binder to the tavern amenity!
4. Add some more customization features!


All excellent suggestions!

I've long wanted a way for guild members to easily notify each other about things. Since Orien mail doesn't have any method of mass-mailing friends (or guild members), and the message-of-the-day is really too short/limited, a message board would be an incredibly useful guild addition.

Again, I would also really like bank/auction/mail available on the top deck, perhaps through a small interface option on the buff-bar if space is an issue.

If it's technically possible to do, a guild ship spirit binder would be amazing.

At one point I was thinking it would be neat if guilds/guild ships used something similar to a character prestige enhancement chart, gaining guild action points each level and having some buffs require prerequisites etc. And in this manner you could get not only guild buffs but also some other customization options.

[slarden]

the new Guildship stuff looks really interesting.

My question is whether there will be any changes in the minimum guild levels needed to purchase guildships?

This is from the original post, but it's buried somewhere in the middle and easily missed



Through a series of tricks, Airship and amenities now unlock, on average, earlier and easier than before


So I assume the levels are lower based on this.

[nibel]

First of all, I really hate that currently I can't log on Lama land to check them out. But I got enough info from everyone that did, so thanks for all people that gathered information and presented them to us (devs and players alike).

I really loved that ship buffs no longer expire on death or count down on city areas. I understand everyone that is defending that they should expire on death, but in my experience, if a single player dies in quest, most parties will not stop their quest chains to allow their party member to rebuff. This is specially true in quest chains held in wilderness zones (Red Fens, High Road, Gianthold sidequests...), or in a straight line chain (Catacombs, Waterworks, STK, Splinterskull). For this reason alone, the buffs no longer expiring in death is a plus in my book.

I think the cargo hold is a bad idea. If you intend to give support to the old guild buffs, you should still sell them. If you want to avoid the few overpowered ones (mostly, the resists), make them really expensive (like, 400k plat base price or more for a one-month amenity). The other options is simply saying "bad luck, system was updated. Deal with it", which is my favorite option. The only real drawbacks are people that stocked up in AS-bought amenities, and guild chest content. Both can be prevented by a launcher news telling people to empty their guild cache a week before releasing, and removing the AS shop from the current guild list ASAP.

I think that you shouldn't pair off "buffs" with "convenience". Either you merge them (Kundarak bank comes with some roguish buffs, and so on. Each buff can reliably have at least a minor vendor with it), or place them in different "slots" (Eg.: Holds for buffs, State Rooms for convenience, or vice-versa).

About the airships, instead of making them "different qualities between brands" (like currently Windspyre is strictly worse than a same-category Stormglory), make them more unique. So that you stay with only three tiers of guild ships (Level 25, 75, 125? Older guilds maintain their legacy ship), but you can make Windspyre have more holds (but not enough room for state rooms, because of a slim design), Stormglory have comercial benefits with the Coin Lords (have the Locksmith Square Guild Vendor on the ship), Fastbreeze is more agile and can navigate to more places (Build-in Navigator/Planescaller, tier dependent on ship), and Dragonought have double normal State Rooms count (but no/few holds). So, if you gain access to a Tier 1 ship, you can choose what fit your guild better than simply always getting the "largest airship available". This will also give you room for more airship designs in the future without having to rearrange the guild levels to fit them.

The healing amplification buff should also give the same bonus to repair and negative energy healing, if you can benefit from it.

Since we have a buff access at level 150, I think renown decay should start at level 151 instead, so you can't drop lower than 150. (Minor detail, but for consistency with design)

Think for a future update the possibility of adding a 50-pix grid (or larger) where your guild leader/officer can access (with AS price, maybe?) to make a guild banner image that will show up in the airship flags and banners (and the guild tab, for members). Of course, "offensive material shall be removed" and stuff.


Please, please, PLEASE add a guild message board! Just a simple addition maybe on the top deck so that we can view/post messages regarding guild raids or other events that we have planned. This is something that would be immensely helpful!

I second this as well.

[EllisDee37]

if a single player dies in quest, most parties will not stop their quest chains to allow their party member to rebuff. This is specially true in quest chains held in wilderness zones (Red Fens, High Road, Gianthold sidequests...), or in a straight line chain (Catacombs, Waterworks, STK, Splinterskull).This is an excellent point for why expiring on death is good. The main argument against expiring on death is because if one person dies the whole party has to wait for them to rebuff. You're saying they don't wait anyway, so there's no problem at all.

[nibel]

This is an excellent point for why expiring on death is good. The main argument against expiring on death is because if one person dies the whole party has to wait for them to rebuff. You're saying they don't wait anyway, so there's no problem at all.

Amazing how we look at the same data point, and have totally opposite conclusions.

[slarden]

I really loved that ship buffs no longer expire on death or count down on city areas. I understand everyone that is defending that they should expire on death, but in my experience, if a single player dies in quest, most parties will not stop their quest chains to allow their party member to rebuff. This is specially true in quest chains held in wilderness zones (Red Fens, High Road, Gianthold sidequests...), or in a straight line chain (Catacombs, Waterworks, STK, Splinterskull). For this reason alone, the buffs no longer expiring in death is a plus in my book.


Truth

It's very easy for vets to say new and casual players should lose buffs upon death because they are already far past the learning curve. Vets just aren't going to die that often. I understand their point as someone that doesn't die much either, but if there is one thing I really dislike - it's when people make a big deal that someone in the party dies - usually a newer or casual player. There is no need to create negative experiences for these folks who are doing the best they can. They aren't trying to die and in fact are probably trying not to die.

Some people mostly solo they probably don't understand, but for people that will group with others and take anyone into their group - it's just going to mean more disincentive to group because a PUG dies and we have to wait for them to rebuff after the quest or be incredibly rude.

Anyhow, like many things opinions vary.

[BurnerD]

Doc,

Nice job on the revamp, it looks very well thought our and incorporates much of the feedback given on the forums.

My only suggestion is why cap levels at all? Allow guild to gain levels without decay. Unless there is a behind the scenes reason to cap levels I don't see the benefit. Any new features added can always be retroactively granted to guilds beyond the feature level.

By not having decay guild levels are not only performance (renown farming) driven, but also tenure driven. Long standing guilds who do not farm renown will continue to level slowly. Those who want bragging rights will renown farm more aggressively.

It isn't a big deal, but decay really isn't needed.

It will be interesting to see how much renown the lvl 100 guilds have banked since decay was turned off.

Thanks for the revamp though :)

[Fnordian]

This is an excellent point for why expiring on death is good. The main argument against expiring on death is because if one person dies the whole party has to wait for them to rebuff. You're saying they don't wait anyway, so there's no problem at all.


I understand the reasoning that there should be a consequence to death in the game. But really, it already makes most people feel at least a little bad (they messed up and if no immediate resurrection, they're waiting around feeling mostly useless for awhile). So what does it add to the game to have the guild buffs expire too? When they do, that character is now more prone to die again faster (once revived), will contribute less damage, possibly succeed slightly less often at certain skills, and generally perform just a little worse than the rest of the party. So..how is this fun for anyone?

[Pandir]

This is an excellent point for why expiring on death is good. The main argument against expiring on death is because if one person dies the whole party has to wait for them to rebuff. You're saying they don't wait anyway, so there's no problem at all.

So the person that died can basically finish the rest of the quest in a nerfed state(even if minorly) ? To what point ? Just so we can say we have another death penalty ? Because there isn't enough drama about the ones that exist already.
I'm still saying make the airships a real convenient feature and let them last permanently until logout(for 10 minutes).

[HatsuharuZ]

So the person that died can basically finish the rest of the quest in a nerfed state(even if minorly) ? To what point ? Just so we can say we have another death penalty ? Because there isn't enough drama about the ones that exist already.
I'm still saying make the airships a real convenient feature and let them last permanently until logout(for 10 minutes).

The problem with your suggestion is that all one has to do in order to get more power is to hop onto an airship and click on a shrine. The only cost for these buffs is plat, not spell points, AP or anything else. There has to be some sort of risk or cost with these stacking buffs, and the fact that they are so convenient justifies this.

[Pandir]

The problem with your suggestion is that all one has to do in order to get more power is to hop onto an airship and click on a shrine. The only cost for these buffs is plat, not spell points, AP or anything else. There has to be some sort of risk or cost with these stacking buffs, and the fact that they are so convenient justifies this.

They're a boon for leveling your guild, i don't see why there should be a risk involved.

I realize that in reality that doesn't always work out that way with getting the buffs, but the trade off should be the time you put in leveling your guild.

[HatsuharuZ]

They're a boon for leveling your guild, i don't see why there should be a risk involved.

I realize that in reality that doesn't always work out that way with getting the buffs, but the trade off should be the time you put in leveling your guild.

But I didn't put time into leveling my guild. I joined a guild when it was around lvl 85 or so, and now it's lvlv 93. I haven't put much time into leveling it at all, not compared to the guild leader or some of the people who were there before me. Yet I get the same guild buffs they do.

No, without some kind of time limit, risk or death penalty, guild buffs just add to power creep.

[dunklezhan]

Truth

It's very easy for vets to say new and casual players should lose buffs upon death because they are already far past the learning curve. Vets just aren't going to die that often. I understand their point as someone that doesn't die much either, but if there is one thing I really dislike - it's when people make a big deal that someone in the party dies - usually a newer or casual player. There is no need to create negative experiences for these folks who are doing the best they can. They aren't trying to die and in fact are probably trying not to die.

Some people mostly solo they probably don't understand, but for people that will group with others and take anyone into their group - it's just going to mean more disincentive to group because a PUG dies and we have to wait for them to rebuff after the quest or be incredibly rude.

Anyhow, like many things opinions vary.

My opinion varies :)

I was a new player once. I didn't have ship buffs. I died all the time. I had loads of fun. There was unnecessary drama over "losing" 10% XP.

We got ship buffs. I died all the time. I had loads of fun. There was drama over the 10% XP 'loss', and rather than waiting for rebuffing or allowing someone to leave the quest, rebuff and reenter, we would just suck it up and carry on how we used to.

I am a "vet" player now, I guess, not that you'd know from my skill level because although I have ship buffs, and better buffs as my guild has levelled... I die all the time. Still having loads of fun.


And I'm asking for buffs to go away on death. The idea that a party should stop to allow players to rebuff is a problem for me. You die, you pay the price. Suck it up and carry on, or chicken out and go rebuff. Your call. I think we should encourage folk to suck it up, not cry about it.

And that goes for the players who give others a hard time - for Khyber's sake: suck it up. Its just not that big a deal - you have a slightly tougher challenge on your hands, and everyone's always moaning the game is too easy anyway, especially all those folks who are in such a hurry all the **** time. You don't want to wait for buffs between quests? Then don't wait. Suck it up and carry on.

Honestly: your character died. Suck. It. Up.

You'll have a lot more fun.


Edit: XP "loss". It would be nice if the loss of bonus only applied to the person who died. That would stop all the drama about it, and only the person who died would 'suffer' from losing the bonus.

[slarden]

I understand the reasoning that there should be a consequence to death in the game. But really, it already makes most people feel at least a little bad (they messed up and if no immediate resurrection, they're waiting around feeling mostly useless for awhile). So what does it add to the game to have the guild buffs expire too? When they do, that character is now more prone to die again faster (once revived), will contribute less damage, possibly succeed slightly less often at certain skills, and generally perform just a little worse than the rest of the party. So..how is this fun for anyone?

Very much this.

I don't understand the reasoning that people that already mastered the content want people that haven't yet mastered the content to get a penalty for dying that impacts not only them, but the entire party because everyone will have to wait for rebuffs.

I like the current system on Lamannia because you aren't penalized with extra rebuffing time between quests if you accept new and casual player into your party. We need more reasons to encourage grouping and not less.

Alot of the people proposing that buffs go away upon death won't accept new/casual players into their party so the penalty would never impact them. Why should exclusionary people be rewarded with less rebuffing time?

Anyhow, why do people care if someone else doensn't lose their buff upon death? It doesn't impact them at all.

[EllisDee37]

This idea that vets will group with new players because now the new players will retain ship buffs after dying is a fantasy. Vets who group with new players now will continue to group with new players either way, and vets who don't group with new players now won't start because of persistent ship buffs.

Losing all your buffs upon death was quite fun for me when I was a new player. It made dungeons much more exciting because the incentive not to die was meaningful. Loss of +10% xp is not a meaningful incentive for new players.

[slarden]

This idea that vets will group with new players because now the new players will retain ship buffs after dying is a fantasy. Vets who group with new players now will continue to group with new players either way, and vets who don't group with new players now won't start because of persistent ship buffs.

Losing all your buffs upon death was quite fun for me when I was a new player. It made dungeons much more exciting because the incentive not to die was meaningful. Loss of +10% xp is not a meaningful incentive for new players.

So easy to say when you aren't a new/casual player that mastered the content long ago. The change you are proposing it something that would have no negative impact on you at all, but would negatively impact casual and new players. It would also negatively impact anyone that groups with casual and new players.

[Iriale]

This idea that vets will group with new players because now the new players will retain ship buffs after dying is a fantasy. Vets who group with new players now will continue to group with new players either way, and vets who don't group with new players now won't start because of persistent ship buffs.

Losing all your buffs upon death was quite fun for me when I was a new player. It made dungeons much more exciting because the incentive not to die was meaningful. Loss of +10% xp is not a meaningful incentive for new players.
I usually agree with you many times, Ellis, but not this time. I have always believed that the permanent disappearance of the guild buffs after death was too punitive, and also a burden to other party members. And an additional cost to spellcasters, they have to renew some protections to the dead.

I always thought the guild buffs should return when the death debuff disappears (negative levels go away and guild buffs return), or at least come back after rest. It's not bad that buffs do not disappear with death, Ellis.

Always there will be veterans who will unwittingly join the new players. There will be elitist and idiots, always. But this will help to less elitist veterans become more comfortable helping new players. Not all veterans are the same, you know, Ellis.

My English is terrible. As always forgive my poor writing.

[nibel]

This idea that vets will group with new players because now the new players will retain ship buffs after dying is a fantasy. Vets who group with new players now will continue to group with new players either way, and vets who don't group with new players now won't start because of persistent ship buffs.

You are missing the point. Ignore the vets that don't party with unknown people for a moment. Those will never join or open a pug, unless they have some real, tangible reason to do (like a raid).

Now imagine a vet that open an "all welcome" LFM for a random quest. She get a mixed bag of 5 party members (some good, some bad, some vet, some newbie, no matter). They all buff up, and enter random quest X.

One single person dies in the first quest, for any random reason (Rolling 1 on a save, taking a lucky crit, bad play, or lag. Does not matter). They ressurrect this person, the quest continue, and they complete it without any major problem.

They want to run another quest, and the leader says "sure, lets run quest Y, since it is also fun", and the person that died says "I will go rebuff quickly".

Now, THIS is the scenario where things change.

If one person is making all the way back to the ship to buff, should everyone else, that currently have decent-timed buffs, also go rebuff, so everyone have the same timer?

Shall the leader dismiss that player because he is making everyone "waste time" by going back to rebuff, when they could have been just jumping on the next quest?

Would every random person in the party have the same opinion about the above questions (thus making group pressure on the leader)?

It does not matter if the person that died is a vet or a newbie, or something in between. The simple fact that he said he would go rebuff triggered those questions immediately. Sure, he could have "sucked it up" and just continue without buffs to the next quest and the next and the next, until the whole party would go rebuff. But that is his decision to do so. The moment one person go rebuff, party dynamics start, and can lead to disruptive conclusions.

Now, if guild buffs didn't expired on death, the above questions just would never show up, except on the rare case that you are on the same party for 2+ hours together. And being playing with someone for such long time is a different beast than being the "random person who died in a single quest".

[Ebondevil]

Now, THIS is the scenario where things change.

If one person is making all the way back to the ship to buff, should everyone else, that currently have decent-timed buffs, also go rebuff, so everyone have the same timer?

Shall the leader dismiss that player because he is making everyone "waste time" by going back to rebuff, when they could have been just jumping on the next quest?

Would every random person in the party have the same opinion about the above questions (thus making group pressure on the leader)?

You're missing a couple of points though, rebuffing on lamma at the moment is very very quick, it's a one click and done, no using bar nothing, just click and done, the slowest part is getting to and from the ship, the other thing is to remove the timers from the guild buffs, so the buffs stay indefinetly until you die or logout, it's the combination of no timer and removal on death that makes sense.

Thus removing the regular 'everyone goes back to buff', and replacing it with 'if someone dies they rebuff'. You are replacing a certainty for everyone, with a potential for some.

Reducing the overall amount of time everyone has to go back to the ships and rebuff.

It would also save having to coordinate buff timers at the start of a session, if everyone's already got them.

If someone dies a lot then they're going to annoy their team, but they'll be annoying their team by dieing a lot anyway, if no one dies, no one rebuffs and everyone's happy.

[Sarolex]

This idea that vets will group with new players because now the new players will retain ship buffs after dying is a fantasy. Vets who group with new players now will continue to group with new players either way, and vets who don't group with new players now won't start because of persistent ship buffs.

Losing all your buffs upon death was quite fun for me when I was a new player. It made dungeons much more exciting because the incentive not to die was meaningful. Loss of +10% xp is not a meaningful incentive for new players.

I agree completely. I've been on the Argo server (and others) for just over 4 years and don't personally care whether i'm running with vets or newbs as any combination can be fun if you don't dwell on the negative aspects. that being said, there are still people that think I'm a newb and won't group up with me because they don't recognize all my toons and some of them are tear-down and re-builds on first life. So some people that will run with some of my toons will flat ignore my first life toons unless I send them a tell announcing the name of my more recognized toons. Catchya later guildie ;-}

[nibel]

If someone dies a lot then they're going to annoy their team, but they'll be annoying their team by dieing a lot anyway, if no one dies, no one rebuffs and everyone's happy.

First off, the time spent on the actual buffing is irrelevant in this scenario. It is the party member breaking up off the path to walk back to the ship, then back to the party.

Second, suppose that A dies at the first quest, B and C dies at the second, A and D dies at the third. Every time someone dies the potential disruptive problems emerge again.

It is not a problem as simple as many people make it seems. I can totally live without guild buffs at all (A few months ago (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436834-Guild-Buffs-2-0) I was suggesting that guild buffs should have been a kind of plat sink, for those who care about them). I think making them staying over death diminishes a party disruption event. And that is all. My argument would stay the same if it took 10 minutes or 15 seconds to buff, or if they lasted 1 hour or one week.

[EllisDee37]

They want to run another quest, and the leader says "sure, lets run quest Y, since it is also fun", and the person that died says "I will go rebuff quickly".

Now, THIS is the scenario where things change.

If one person is making all the way back to the ship to buff, should everyone else, that currently have decent-timed buffs, also go rebuff, so everyone have the same timer?You're not understanding what I'm advocating. I'm advocating no timers at all.

The only way it makes sense to have no timers at all is to have them go away on death. I'd also like to add going away on (extended) logout in order to foster a sense of community with your guild in the form of going to your guild ship at the start of every session.

Persisting through death but having timers introduces a ton of "group disruption events" just by the nature of having timers at all. One guy with 80 minutes left on his joins your group, but it turned out you run a ton of quests and now he has to break up the flow in the middle of your group for no legitimate reason. Solely because an arbitrary timer happened to expire.

My suggestion removes that. Nobody ever needs to rebuff unless they die, which everyone in the group will easily see. As opposed to "Hey I need to rebuff" guy who out of the blue springs that on you that you would never have been aware of otherwise, and all because of arbitrary timers.

[EllisDee37]

So easy to say when you aren't a new/casual player that mastered the content long ago. The change you are proposing it something that would have no negative impact on you at all, but would negatively impact casual and new players. It would also negatively impact anyone that groups with casual and new players.When I was a new player, losing my ship buffs on death added a non-trivial amount of fun and excitement to the game.

Many, many times (far too many) after dying while soloing I would start a stopwatch, recall, race to the ship, sell/repair, then get as many ship buffs back as I could and get back to the quest before 5:00 elapsed and the quest reset.

A lot of fun in my new player days would have been lost if the ship buffs persisted through death.

[nibel]

You're not understanding what I'm advocating. I'm advocating no timers at all.

I think no timers at all is a step too far. Every other game, when relegated to guild buffs, involve some kind of "guild work" for them, while here all we have guild-related is renown that is never spent.

Eg.: Let's say the guild want to run a weekeend of raids, and want buffs X, Y, and Z. Under other games, they would make the buffs during the week, then unleash them to all guild members on the weekend (usually in a literal feast table or something like that). We don't have anything like that.

For most of the guild, the ship buffs are essentially free stuff. Double now, that you only have to pay for them once instead of keep refreshing the amenities. To work out something like that, we would had to add a new currency in the game, and people would cry it as being extremely punitive for small guilds (which they are, by design).

No timers at all (only on logoff or death) just can't work under the current system.

[EllisDee37]

No timers at all (only on logoff or death) just can't work under the current system.Of course it can. What an odd assertion.

I couldn't really follow what you were saying about other games. I see no relevance there.

I like your turn of phrase. In the spirit of seeing things differently, I think persisting through death is a step too far.

[nibel]

I like your turn of phrase. In the spirit of seeing things differently, I think persisting through death is a step too far.

Then we should agree on disagree. We just can't agree on the basic premise, so everything that follow it will be disagreeable as well.

[Dreppo]

To put in my 2 cents, I agree with EllisDee37 on this one. I like the idea of no timers at all on the guild buffs, such that they persist until death or until logout.

Firstly this solves the currently present issue of people joining the group at different times where they may have a different number of minutes remaining on their buffs. It sucks to do a ship run just to get everyone in sync. With the proposed change to have guild buff duration scale based on guild level, this issue is set to actually get worse as low level guild members would have to rebuff more frequently than high level guild members (which isn't the case now).

Secondly I do think there should be consequences on death. It's an personal incentive to not die, and for that matter it's also a group incentive to not let a teammate die (if a teammate gets weaker after being raised, then the group as a whole gets weaker).

Thirdly this makes guild buffs consistent with other buffs (virtually all spells, abilities, and clickies) that also expire on death.

[Ebondevil]

Second, suppose that A dies at the first quest, B and C dies at the second, A and D dies at the third. Every time someone dies the potential disruptive problems emerge again.

How is that really any different from:

Suppose that A's Buffs run out at the end of the first quest, B and C 's Buffs run out at the end of the second, D's Buffs run out at the end of the third. Every time someone has to rebuff the potential disruptive problems emerge again.

You've got 2 basic situations

The first is that buffs have no timer but end on death, the second is that the buffs persist through death but have a timer.

Resulting in various scenarios

No Timer:
Perfect Case: No one dies, no one needs to rebuff until they next log on.
Worst Case: One person dies every quest and wants to rebuff

Persist Through death:
Perfect case: Everyone has their timers set the same, no one dies, everyone needs to go rebuff after a set time.
Worst case: Everyone has their buffs on separate timers, different people need to rebuff after different quests (Just as much of a disruption as no timer's worst case)

In the two Perfect case Scenarios, the Persist through death with a timer is more disruptive.
in the two Worst case Scenarios they are equally disruptive.

And yes there will be scenarios between those two extreems, but they will be equally as disruptive.

Having no timer is the situation that results in the overall least disruption, and favours more careful players, while having them persist through Death just encourages carelessness because death becomes that little less meaningful.

I had a situation today where I died from Str drain, had all my guild buffs removed and then because I didn't have the buffs I died again, annoying, yes, but it happens, and I still advocate they should be removed on death.


Though let me ask, what purpose does the timer on Guild buffs actually serve?

[nomaddog]

So, with all these amenities changes. It looks like one of the most important items is once again going to be left out. It would be AWESOME to have a guild bulletin board. There was some forum discussion (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/389780-Guild-Airship-Bulletin-Board-again!) about this a couple of years ago. I still think it's something that should be implemented.

The current MotD does not give enough space. Let's put some thought into improving guild communication.

[Stoner81]

Though let me ask, what purpose does the timer on Guild buffs actually serve?

A severe disruption to a persons play time! The only thing it does imo is cause players to clock watch and spend daft amounts of time running back and forth from the guild ship to get buffs. Having no timers on guild buffs would mean I can actually spend more time playing the game instead of buffing. Some examples:


Setting up a raid people join slowly so by the time the group fills people have only 15 minutes or so left on buffs... having no timers would remove this disruption.
Group is doing Shroud flagging quests and a new person joins the group, buffs up and heads out to meet them in the quest. The new person would have fresh buffs (under the current timer system) whereas everybody else's would be partly expired, having no timers would remove the disruption of people buffing in between quests.

I am all for having no timers on guild buffs and only go away when the person dies or logs out of the game. If they persist through death then I could care less about dying because I know I won't lose my buffs especially the XP one, having them expire on death makes me try to play better/smarter so I don't care so I can keep my buffs.

Stoner81.

[Nascoe]

A severe disruption to a persons play time! The only thing it does imo is cause players to clock watch and spend daft amounts of time running back and forth from the guild ship to get buffs. Having no timers on guild buffs would mean I can actually spend more time playing the game instead of buffing. Some examples:


Setting up a raid people join slowly so by the time the group fills people have only 15 minutes or so left on buffs... having no timers would remove this disruption.
Group is doing Shroud flagging quests and a new person joins the group, buffs up and heads out to meet them in the quest. The new person would have fresh buffs (under the current timer system) whereas everybody else's would be partly expired, having no timers would remove the disruption of people buffing in between quests.

I am all for having no timers on guild buffs and only go away when the person dies or logs out of the game. If they persist through death then I could care less about dying because I know I won't lose my buffs especially the XP one, having them expire on death makes me try to play better/smarter so I don't care so I can keep my buffs.

Stoner81.

Part of your issues are solved with the changes though Stoner81. First of all, the timer now halts in public instances, meaning that as long as you do not enter the quest, raid or wilderness area it is in, your buffs will all be nicely aligned. And second, the buffs run far longer, meaning that you would have to be waiting a VERY long time in a not public instance to lose most of the buff time.

As for dying and losing your buffs, I do think its a nice mechanic. On the other hand, and more importantly, it does NOT motivate new players not to die at all. Instead it demotivates them, because if they die, they won't just be holding the group back by having gotten killed and caused a decrease in XP (and needing to ask for a raise or being brought to a res shrine). But on top of that the risk that they get killed again and again is raised enormously, because the traps people in the know either avoid, jump over or just ignore/run through, suddenly are deadly all by themselves!

The biggest disadvantage to getting killed currently is the reaction of your party members anyway, varying from jokes to being booted from the party even going towards abuse. Getting an extra penalty by becoming even less apt to survive does nothing to motivate.

[EllisDee37]

In a sense it boils down to this: Not everybody dies, but everyone's timers expire. This means that expiring on death with no timer is a superior system to persisting through death with a timer.


The biggest disadvantage to getting killed currently is the reaction of your party members anyway, varying from jokes to being booted from the party even going towards abuse. Getting an extra penalty by becoming even less apt to survive does nothing to motivate.It's hard to view losing guild buffs on death as an "extra" penalty when they've always been lost on death since their introduction.

[Nascoe]

In a sense it boils down to this: Not everybody dies, but everyone's timers expire. This means that expiring on death with no timer is a superior system to persisting through death with a timer.

It's hard to view losing guild buffs on death as an "extra" penalty when they've always been lost on death since their introduction.

Right Ellis. Off course the "extra" there referred to being on top of (and increasing play difficulty for someone who arguably already is challenged by the content) getting killed and mocked / disliked for it in the first place, not in reference to being anything new that is added.

[The_Human_Cypher]

I just logged into Lamannia and went to the Airship Showroom in the Harbor. The six new airship models listed are below.

Frigate

Frigate Deluxe

Cruiser

Cruiser Deluxe

Man-of-War

Man-of-War Deluxe

I don't have any more information on these new ships. The new ships aren't available for purchase with plat or AS as of today (Thursday) and the prices are placeholders.

[slarden]

When I was a new player, losing my ship buffs on death added a non-trivial amount of fun and excitement to the game.

Many, many times (far too many) after dying while soloing I would start a stopwatch, recall, race to the ship, sell/repair, then get as many ship buffs back as I could and get back to the quest before 5:00 elapsed and the quest reset.

A lot of fun in my new player days would have been lost if the ship buffs persisted through death.

Nonesense. You are a veteran like me and learned to almost never die. What you are proposing means you can go all day without buffing (goes away only on death)( while some new person will be constantly buffing and losing playing time.

It's absurd to pretend that people aren't trying to stay alive. You need to come up with something way better because your motivation is obvious. You are trying to make the buffs last longer for you while simultaneously make them go away frequently for 90% of the player base. It's purely a self-serving request and your justification does nothing to show otherwise.

[Nascoe]

I just logged into Lamannia and went to the Airship Showroom in the Harbor. The six new airship models listed are below.

Frigate

Frigate Deluxe

Cruiser

Cruiser Deluxe

Man-of-War

Man-of-War Deluxe

I don't have any more information on these new ships. The new ships aren't available for purchase with plat or AS as of today (Thursday) and the prices are placeholders.

My new guild on Lamannia got a Cruiser type ship and let me suffice to say it is BIG. Its a 2 master. As in you have to climb several ramps to even get from the top deck to the captain (so what we save from the "button" we now get back just walking up to teleport into town :-o). I imagine the bigger ships must be really Supertanker/150.000 TUE Huge. EDIT - just checked its the "man of war" we have.

https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/853064152.jpg?1400192055

https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/853064996.jpg?1400192935

Only thing missing now is the ability to decorate it a bit, put on some cannons, and give it a name. All just cosmetics, but sure enough something people will love to dump their plat (or even AS or TP?) in.

[The_Human_Cypher]

My new guild on Lamannia got a Cruiser type ship and let me suffice to say it is BIG. Its a 2 master. As in you have to climb several ramps to even get from the top deck to the captain (so what we save from the "button" we now get back just walking up to teleport into town :-o). I imagine the bigger ships must be really Supertanker/150.000 TUE Huge.

Only thing missing now is the ability to decorate it a bit, put on some cannons, and give it a name. All just cosmetics, but sure enough something people will love to dump their plat (or even AS or TP?) in.

How did you purchase the new ship? I didn't see an option for that in the Showroom.

[Nascoe]

How did you purchase the new ship? I didn't see an option for that in the Showroom.

Sorry, can't help there. My guild mate got it, and I forgot to ask how. I presume its just about being the right guild lvl and having enough money in the guild vault.

Edit - yes, you just go into the Airship showroom in the harbour, and talk to the vendors. It brings up this UI:

https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/853065098.jpg?1400193043

Strange enough the "buy now" button does not seem to work, but there must be a trick because our guild has the big ship.

[The_Human_Cypher]

Sorry, can't help there. My guild mate got it, and I forgot to ask how. I presume its just about being the right guild lvl and having enough money in the guild vault, but I will have to check that later.

My Guild (of which I am the leader) is lvl 200 and I have 1k AS. I will have to log back into Lamannia and see if there is something I missed.

[Nascoe]

My Guild (of which I am the leader) is lvl 200 and I have 1k AS. I will have to log back into Lamannia and see if there is something I missed.

Strange how it's not working

[The_Human_Cypher]

Strange how it's not working

I logged back into Lamannia and was able to buy the Man of War ship for plat. First, I had to deposit the correct amounts of AS and Plat in the Guild airship bank. Next, I had to buy the Stormglory Typhoon. Then I was able to upgrade to the Man of War ship for plat.

From there, I couldn't figure out how to upgrade to the Man of War Deluxe for AS even though I had deposited enough AS. The 'Get Now' button or showroom vendor may be bugged.

[Vicania]

So after first look i must say new ships looks ugly. Or not even ugly but super ugly :) Maybe is a matter of personal taste but i was in hope for something "stormglory line" alike. All new ships looks like windspyre garbage. Good thing ,there will be no longer required to run all over the ship to get buffs. It was always a suckage to run over "windspyre".

[Arnez]

The Stormglory Tempest is still not working.

Seems like it's dematerialization circuit is stuck.

[EllisDee37]

Nonesense. You are a veteran like me and learned to almost never die. What you are proposing means you can go all day without buffing (goes away only on death)( while some new person will be constantly buffing and losing playing time.

It's absurd to pretend that people aren't trying to stay alive. You need to come up with something way better because your motivation is obvious. You are trying to make the buffs last longer for you while simultaneously make them go away frequently for 90% of the player base. It's purely a self-serving request and your justification does nothing to show otherwise.My motivation should be obvious, because I've stated it explicitly: Buffs with timers that persist through deaths are more disruptive to pugging than timerless buffs that are lost on death.

My stories about being a new player and racing to rebuff before the quest instance reset aren't relevant to my point. They were merely offered in response to the nonsense about how buffs going away on death would be somehow bad for new players. It's as if the people arguing this position have never played DDO. (Here's a hint: Buffs have disappeared on death for years. This is not bad for new players.)

[Gremmlynn]

Personally I welcome the return of decay. I found it to be the most flavorful and interesting thing about renown and guild levels. Increasing the ML from 26 to 150, while not my 1st choice, seems like a terrific compromise. Well done.Heh, I always found it was the most exasperating and anti-social thing, but agree that as long as it's only applied to the 151+ vanity levels it's not likely going to be an issue.

[Flavilandile]

Sorry, can't help there. My guild mate got it, and I forgot to ask how. I presume its just about being the right guild lvl and having enough money in the guild vault.

Edit - yes, you just go into the Airship showroom in the harbour, and talk to the vendors. It brings up this UI:

https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/853065098.jpg?1400193043

Strange enough the "buy now" button does not seem to work, but there must be a trick because our guild has the big ship.

You need to transfer money and/or Astrad Diamond to the Guild Bank ( Shard Balance, Plat Balance )

Then you will be able to buy a ship. ( as long as you put enough money/diamond )

[MangLord]

My motivation should be obvious, because I've stated it explicitly: Buffs with timers that persist through deaths are more disruptive to pugging than timerless buffs that are lost on death.

My stories about being a new player and racing to rebuff before the quest instance reset aren't relevant to my point. They were merely offered in response to the nonsense about how buffs going away on death would be somehow bad for new players. It's as if the people arguing this position have never played DDO. (Here's a hint: Buffs have disappeared on death for years. This is not bad for new players.)

I feel like it would be far less annoying to keep ship buffs for a static amount of time (say login to logout) than to suffer through a quest being gimped out with no ship buffs because you built your character towards your ship. Resist Energy is a spell I hold off on because of the work I put into building guild ship buffs.

The same reasoning says "hey, I need to recall and grab more arrows from House D before we finish. Let me reenter and cost everyone 20% xp, That's cool right?". Its ridiculous. The game is changing for the better with this new system. Not like 30 fire resist helps a ton in Fire on Thunder Peak, but it does something. I'd rather have 33% resistance, and thats what the change is leveraging. You're short sighted if you can't see the benefit.

[Nascoe]

You need to transfer money and/or Astrad Diamond to the Guild Bank ( Shard Balance, Plat Balance )

Then you will be able to buy a ship. ( as long as you put enough money/diamond )

look at the pic - there is over 60K shards and 24k Plat in the guild bank. That is not the issue.

[slarden]

My motivation should be obvious, because I've stated it explicitly: Buffs with timers that persist through deaths are more disruptive to pugging than timerless buffs that are lost on death.

My stories about being a new player and racing to rebuff before the quest instance reset aren't relevant to my point. They were merely offered in response to the nonsense about how buffs going away on death would be somehow bad for new players. It's as if the people arguing this position have never played DDO. (Here's a hint: Buffs have disappeared on death for years. This is not bad for new players.)

Yes your motivation is obvious. To increase the length of YOUR buffs while simultaneously decreasing the length of buffs for 90% of the player base.

Now you are trying to say buffs that persist through death are disruptive to pugging? LOL. 3+ hour buffs that persist through death are good for pugging because when running an "all weclome" pug on EE there will almost always be some deaths. This eliminates time spent for the newer/casual person to rebuff between every quest. It stops the inevitable nerd rage that someone will have because they have to wait while the person that died rebuffs. I see no downside to it at all for the overall player base.

[slarden]

Heh, I always found it was the most exasperating and anti-social thing, but agree that as long as it's only applied to the 151+ vanity levels it's not likely going to be an issue.

My feeling as well. It caters to a very small percentage of the player base that wants this, but does nothing to hurt the rest. The formula will never be fair so the level itself won't mean much except to the guild that is the highest level. Whether it's deserved or not I will just be happy for the top guild on my server. I think the devs did a great job on the system. It's very hard to balance everything for a such a diverse group of people, but it seems they did it.

[Lifespawn]

Nonesense. You are a veteran like me and learned to almost never die. What you are proposing means you can go all day without buffing (goes away only on death)( while some new person will be constantly buffing and losing playing time.

It's absurd to pretend that people aren't trying to stay alive. You need to come up with something way better because your motivation is obvious. You are trying to make the buffs last longer for you while simultaneously make them go away frequently for 90% of the player base. It's purely a self-serving request and your justification does nothing to show otherwise.

What is the reason to avoid dying if buffs don't go away why play smart why try instead of mindlessly running through a quest.

Personally when I walked into haunted halls the first time I went in on epic elite and got stomped even trying not to die the traps and the penalty for dying made it much more exciting if that wasn't there it would not be nearly as fun or rewarding to me.

[FestusHood]

I don't have anything principally against ship buffs, but the actual act of buffing sucks.

Anything that reduces the number of times per play session that this occurs is a plus in my book.

Whether in a pug or a static group, if someone wants to get ship buffs, for any reason, i will wait for them to do so. I will usually go and get the buffs myself because since the time is already being taken, i might as well.

In the current system, the idea that someone will lose their ship buffs never enters my mind for a second concerning whether or not i will try to prevent them, or myself, from dying. I try not to die anyway, and will do what i can to help other people not die.

Unlike some players, any quest in which i die has an asterisk beside it. It's not a completely legitimate completion to me. I used a mulligan. Wanting to complete a quest without using a mulligan is all the incentive i need to try not to die, i need no other motivation, especially one which is only an annoying inconvenience.

If the game becomes more exciting after you die and lose your buffs, why not always forego the buffs, and keep that level of excitement all the time?

[slarden]

What is the reason to avoid dying if buffs don't go away why play smart why try instead of mindlessly running through a quest.

Personally when I walked into haunted halls the first time I went in on epic elite and got stomped even trying not to die the traps and the penalty for dying made it much more exciting if that wasn't there it would not be nearly as fun or rewarding to me.

Let me get this straight. You think the reason people try not to die is solely to keep their buffs and with this change they will have no motivation to stay alive. Then why is it I see people die all the time right now?

So let's play out your scenario. You now have ship buffs that last through death and because of this you are perfectly willing to die early and often. So you are soloing a dungeon on EE and decide to just run mindlessly through the quest since - due solely to ship buffs lasting through death - you no longer mind dying at all and this has some HUGE HUGE HUGE impact on your playing style. Ok you so you die because due solely to ship buffs lasting through death you play recklessly. What is your next move now.

[Tshober]

Only the 150-200 levels have decay and the way I read it these levels grant no buffs, but instead they give you prestige, i.e. colored guild titles.
If that is indeed the way it works then I see no problem with renown decay.

Agreed. And I was one of the most vocal critics of the old renown decay system.

[Powskier]

WoW more Buffs,and Not Losing them on Death is over the top...now players have one less reason to learn battle tacticts.You build a character for what? just ship buff and all your worries ........lol what a JOKE! no need to worry what resistances you carry ,potion guy is goin out of business. the buff bar is real nice,but I cant believe this stupid Airship sytsem in this game. A D&D character goes into the World with a backpack and whepon/spells ;not some Godly Magic Buffing ,like mary magdolin herself gave us a lapdance. Smart play requires these Not, anyways..I uaually smoke out while players are busy' buffing' .Like the ships for travel,bar,storage,crafting ..those are awsome,and adding special event crafters would be cool.

[Powskier]

It is kinda sad to see epics so into the buffins...I grab the 10% heal bonus , and 2% xp and Im outta there...really above lvl12 buffs area joke unless you are 1st lifer

[BOgre]

It is kinda sad to see epics so into the buffins...I grab the 10% heal bonus , and 2% xp and Im outta there...really above lvl12 buffs area joke unless you are 1st lifer

You contradict yourself. 1st you say guild ship buffs are a magical blessing that breaks the game with their uberness. Next you say they're a joke and only useful for newbs. Pick a pulpit dude.

As for all people going Nick Cage over buffs persisting through death, honestly, get some perspective. The existence of buffs doesn't cause a player to flip his switch between Smart Player and Leroy Jenkins. Do you think people play differently based on what buffs are cast on them in-quest? No, they don't. People play how they play. Period. Having Guild Buffs persist is nothing more than a sensible convenience. doublePeriod.

[Lifespawn]

Let me get this straight. You think the reason people try not to die is solely to keep their buffs and with this change they will have no motivation to stay alive. Then why is it I see people die all the time right now?

So let's play out your scenario. You now have ship buffs that last through death and because of this you are perfectly willing to die early and often. So you are soloing a dungeon on EE and decide to just run mindlessly through the quest since - due solely to ship buffs lasting through death - you no longer mind dying at all and this has some HUGE HUGE HUGE impact on your playing style. Ok you so you die because due solely to ship buffs lasting through death you play recklessly. What is your next move now.


I play not to die I find it a challenge and enjoyable to stay alive ship buffs staying and getting that extra 5% xp was a reward for playing smart if it lasts through death I will still try not to die but there is nothing to set me apart or reward me for playing smart or building a good character or being prepared or .......

[slarden]

I play not to die I find it a challenge and enjoyable to stay alive ship buffs staying and getting that extra 5% xp was a reward for playing smart if it lasts through death I will still try not to die but there is nothing to set me apart or reward me for playing smart or building a good character or being prepared or .......

So it sounds like this will have no impact on you at all and it will save the majority of the player base time because they can rebuff less.

It doesn't sound all that horrible to me.

I get where you are coming from. When you run with a static group or especially when soloing, deaths are almost non-existent and you want a reward for that. Soloing is especially easy to avoid deaths because you don't have other players doing the unexpected and causing AI reactions that weren't anticipated. You still get your 10% bonus for no deaths if you run with a good static group or solo and no re-entry penalties which casual players may get when the group wipes. If someone in your party dies you save time between quests because the person that died doesn't have to rebuff.

You are obviously a good and capable player and I run with many people like this as well. I also run with casual players including some of the people I ran with before my first character reached cap. This change will be very beneficial for the casual and new players because they spend more time playing the game and less time preparing to the play the game by rebuffing. Hopefully that will translate into better retention which this game needs.

[whereispowderedsilve]

So it sounds like this will have no impact on you at all and it will save the majority of the player base time because they can rebuff less.

It doesn't sound all that horrible to me.

I get where you are coming from. When you run with a static group or especially when soloing, deaths are almost non-existent and you want a reward for that. Soloing is especially easy to avoid deaths because you don't have other players doing the unexpected and causing AI reactions that weren't anticipated. You still get your 10% bonus for no deaths if you run with a good static group or solo and no re-entry penalties which casual players may get when the group wipes. If someone in your party dies you save time between quests because the person that died doesn't have to rebuff.

You are obviously a good and capable player and I run with many people like this as well. I also run with casual players including some of the people I ran with before my first character reached cap. This change will be very beneficial for the casual and new players because they spend more time playing the game and less time preparing to the play the game by rebuffing. Hopefully that will translate into better retention which this game needs.

Amen brother(or sister)! I agree 200%!!! :P! :)! :D! Well said! Also great for gimps like me! Hehe!(kidding!)

[dragon2fire]

So wait.....we wont be able to get all of the new stuff through plat.......that is unbelievable. You guys just like ticking off long time customers at this point eh...and dont give me that the new amenities will drop line.....sure they will....just like plus one hearts right. The one thing the current system has going for it is that if you level your guild you never have to spend a dime...this is clearly a money grab and i wish more people would see it.

[slarden]

So wait.....we wont be able to get all of the new stuff through plat.......that is unbelievable. You guys just like ticking off long time customers at this point eh...and dont give me that the new amenities will drop line.....sure they will....just like plus one hearts right. The one thing the current system has going for it is that if you level your guild you never have to spend a dime...this is clearly a money grab and i wish more people would see it.

Definitely a valid concern. Just to clarify it's Astral Shards and not TP, so you can sell items acquired in-game to buy the ship buffs. Not to mention everyone in the guild can pitch in for this as well. So many people have acquired thousands of AS with nothing to do with them - now there is finally something to spend it on.

The rare drops can also be traded for and purchased for plat if people are willing to sell for plat. If they sell for AS it will have to be less than the Turbine prices, so seems like there should be plenty of ways to acquire without real $.

Just like the old system, the new system will have plat and A/S options for ship purchases. Obviously this will be easier for a big guild that can pool resources, but it's always been that way.

If the guild system was TP only I would definitely fully agree with you. I am glad they made it A/S. At this point everything is placeholder values so we don't even know what is plat vs. AS but it sounds like it will be 75% plat and unless you are instantly able to get the biggest ship - you can't fit anything anyhow so you can outfit it solely with plat items. You can also stock on up some amenities under the old system and use those in the cargo hold for as long as you have a supply - of course you will need many mules for this :)

[Nestroy]

I would wonder what the real costs in AS, Plat and grind time will be. So far we only have those placeholders. Any update on the real costs (and drop rates for the part charters) would be nice.

[BOgre]

Also, the plat buffs mostly cover what we had with the old buffs, with the added benefit of longer durations and a couple new effects. The Shard buffs appear to go above and beyond what we had before. So no, in no way do I see this as a cash-grab by Turbine. I see it as a very smart way to give us more of what we like, improve what we had, and try to make a bit of money in the process. Kudos to Turbine for working hard to find a good balance.

[dragon2fire]

Definitely a valid concern. Just to clarify it's Astral Shards and not TP, so you can sell items acquired in-game to buy the ship buffs. Not to mention everyone in the guild can pitch in for this as well. So many people have acquired thousands of AS with nothing to do with them - now there is finally something to spend it on.

The rare drops can also be traded for and purchased for plat if people are willing to sell for plat. If they sell for AS it will have to be less than the Turbine prices, so seems like there should be plenty of ways to acquire without real $.

Just like the old system, the new system will have plat and A/S options for ship purchases. Obviously this will be easier for a big guild that can pool resources, but it's always been that way.

If the guild system was TP only I would definitely fully agree with you. I am glad they made it A/S. At this point everything is placeholder values so we don't even know what is plat vs. AS but it sounds like it will be 75% plat and unless you are instantly able to get the biggest ship - you can't fit anything anyhow so you can outfit it solely with plat items. You can also stock on up some amenities under the old system and use those in the cargo hold for as long as you have a supply - of course you will need many mules for this :)

Those astral shards come form some one spending real money and yes i know power gamers have more then they know what to do with. That does not change the fact that once again turbine has gotten away form one of the things that made this game so accessible. That being that anything can be done for free......the current guild system is perfect in this you want that 5 percent xp shrine for plat get to 93. You want it earlier spend money.

[Leclaire1]

So, while Madja has very helpfully listed out what is known of the new airship amenities and the data on how the old airships upgrade in this thread- https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441927-List-of-the-new-Guild-Amenities, I haven't been able to find a comprehensive place where the hard data on the new ships is listed yet. As such, I decided to log into Lamma, do some research, and find out myself so that those who haven't had the chance yet can begin dreaming about the future of their guilds.

The process is a bit tricky as the airship purchase process in particular is heavily bugged and confusing to many on these threads. Basically, there are three types of ships proposed at the moment- The Frigate (Min. Guild Level 100), The Cruiser (MGL 130), and the Man of War (MGL 150). There are also Deluxe versions of these three purchasable through shards (the basic ships are still plat), which cannot be purchased yet (the option is greyed out in the ui). Purchaseing the Frigate works as it should, but when you purchase a cruiser and load onto the ship it lists the ship as a "Deluxe Frigate," and when you purchase a Man of War it lists as a Cruiser. The Purchase ui meanwhile still lists it as a Cruiser or Man of War respectively. I suspect, though the devs could confirm this, that the barter ui is accurate and the ship itself is wrongly labeled due to the scaling of the amenities, the plat cost, and that all of the currently previewable ships have a Windspyre style design on the top deck, making it seem like it is the basic line offered (below decks is nice and orderly though!). At any rate, here is how the ships look on Lamma now. All ships have a top deck and a cargo hold for legacy buffs, so I'll only list the decks on which the new amenities go.

Frigate (MGL 100)

2 Decks

1st Deck contains 2 large hook points and 8 small hook points
2nd Deck contains 1 large hook point and 7 small hookpoints

Result- 3 large and 15 small



Cruiser (MGL 130)- Lists as "Deluxe Frigate" currently

3 Decks

1st Deck contains 2 large hook points and 8 small hook points
2nd Deck contains 1 large hook point and 6 small hook points
3rd Deck contains 1 large hook point and 4 small hook points

Result- 4 large and 18 small hook points



Man of War (MGL 150)- Lists as "Cruiser" currently (this is the double-masted ship some have posted pictures of)

3 Decks

1st Deck contains 2 large hook points and 8 small hook points
2nd Deck contains 2 large hook points and 8 small hook points
3rd Deck contains 1 large hook point and 6 small hook points

Result- 5 large and 22 small hook points


Hopefully the Deluxe versions will preview soon. Also, I welcome dev correction if their are any inaccuracies here due to the new ui bug. Hope this helps any of you who are curious like I am!

[Lifespawn]

So it sounds like this will have no impact on you at all and it will save the majority of the player base time because they can rebuff less.

It doesn't sound all that horrible to me.

I get where you are coming from. When you run with a static group or especially when soloing, deaths are almost non-existent and you want a reward for that. Soloing is especially easy to avoid deaths because you don't have other players doing the unexpected and causing AI reactions that weren't anticipated. You still get your 10% bonus for no deaths if you run with a good static group or solo and no re-entry penalties which casual players may get when the group wipes. If someone in your party dies you save time between quests because the person that died doesn't have to rebuff.

You are obviously a good and capable player and I run with many people like this as well. I also run with casual players including some of the people I ran with before my first character reached cap. This change will be very beneficial for the casual and new players because they spend more time playing the game and less time preparing to the play the game by rebuffing. Hopefully that will translate into better retention which this game needs.

No it will not be a negative to me directly I just think people should have an incentive to play smart and avoid death buffs going away was a very solid and noticeable loss I just think this further trivializes death where I think death should be a penalty.

[BOgre]

this further trivializes death where I think death should be a penalty.

Death already HAS a penalty. It's called Death Penalty (http://ddowiki.com/page/Death_penalty). If you want that penalty to be increased, or maybe to scale with level, I'd be all for discussing that in it's own thread. Start one. *In fact I DO think Death Penalty should scale with level, particularly nowadays with players exceeding level 20.

As far as Guild Buffs are concerned, I see no good reason not to adopt the new system as-is on Lamma.

[TazMan098]

Just so that you guys know; according to one of the devs (Steelstar I think) in order to get the deluxe ships, you must buy them in successive order.

I did confirm this by doing some purchases the other day and found this: You can purchase any of the Platinum ships right off the bat as long as you meet the guild level requirements; for the Astral Shard ships there doesn't seem to be a guild level requirement (this may be a display error) and you can purchase up to a Stormglory Typhoon right of the bat, but to get the deluxe versions of the Platinum ships, you will need to buy a Stormglory Typhoon then move up to a Frigate Deluxe, then a Cruiser Deluxe, then a Man-O-War Deluxe. Not sure if this is how it is supposed to work, but currently that is how you can get the deluxe ships.

Hope this helps!

[Lifespawn]

Death already HAS a penalty. It's called Death Penalty (http://ddowiki.com/page/Death_penalty). If you want that penalty to be increased, or maybe to scale with level, I'd be all for discussing that in it's own thread. Start one. *In fact I DO think Death Penalty should scale with level, particularly nowadays with players exceeding level 20.

As far as Guild Buffs are concerned, I see no good reason not to adopt the new system as-is on Lamma.


As previously stated there are multiple ways to get rid of death penalties making it a non issue and therefore not even a penalty.

[Firewall]

I really would prefer if the ships had some use for the top deck. On our actual guild ship we have a banker, a tavern, the dummy and some more stuff on the top deck because that is where everyone meets. As soon as you enter the ship you are in a tavern zone where your action boosts and clickies reset and that persists even when you are at the bank or hitting the dummy.

It would be really nice if all the things you interact with such as bank, tavern, dummy, mail and auction house would be placed on the top deck and all the top deck would be marked as a tavern regeneration zone on all ships.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

I really would prefer if the ships had some use for the top deck. On our actual guild ship we have a banker, a tavern, the dummy and some more stuff on the top deck because that is where everyone meets. As soon as you enter the ship you are in a tavern zone where your action boosts and clickies reset and that persists even when you are at the bank or hitting the dummy.

It would be really nice if all the things you interact with such as bank, tavern, dummy, mail and auction house would be placed on the top deck and all the top deck would be marked as a tavern regeneration zone on all ships.

I agree, that would be very nice indeed. Even nicer if they were autogrants on every ship.

From what I've seen (well, read in this thread, at least) though, I'm rather stoked for the new changes. Do the old ships get converted to "new" ships with the same names, and the new method of placing amenities?

[BOgre]

I agree, that would be very nice indeed. Even nicer if they were autogrants on every ship.

From what I've seen (well, read in this thread, at least) though, I'm rather stoked for the new changes. Do the old ships get converted to "new" ships with the same names, and the new method of placing amenities?

Yes, old ships will be modified to have a legacy Cargo Hold (for old buffs) on the lowest deck. Upper decks will have the new hookpoint/buff setup.

[Leclaire1]

Thanks for the insight Taz. +1. I'll check it out and post the Deluze ships when I have the time.

[Singular]

Looks great! I like the changes. Glad buffs won't trivialize content and even more glad they are going to be permanent!

Well done!

[The_Human_Cypher]

Just so that you guys know; according to one of the devs (Steelstar I think) in order to get the deluxe ships, you must buy them in successive order.

I did confirm this by doing some purchases the other day and found this: You can purchase any of the Platinum ships right off the bat as long as you meet the guild level requirements; for the Astral Shard ships there doesn't seem to be a guild level requirement (this may be a display error) and you can purchase up to a Stormglory Typhoon right of the bat, but to get the deluxe versions of the Platinum ships, you will need to buy a Stormglory Typhoon then move up to a Frigate Deluxe, then a Cruiser Deluxe, then a Man-O-War Deluxe. Not sure if this is how it is supposed to work, but currently that is how you can get the deluxe ships.

Hope this helps!

Yes, someone can buy the Astral Shard Deluxe line on Lamannia right now. I believe that the Stormglory Typhoon has to be purchased first and then each successive ship has to be purchased (Frigate Deluxe and Cruiser Deluxe) to purchase the Man-of-War Deluxe. There may be no minimum Guild level to purchase any of the Deluxe ships after the Stormglory Typhoon is purchased.

[The_Human_Cypher]

I really would prefer if the ships had some use for the top deck. On our actual guild ship we have a banker, a tavern, the dummy and some more stuff on the top deck because that is where everyone meets. As soon as you enter the ship you are in a tavern zone where your action boosts and clickies reset and that persists even when you are at the bank or hitting the dummy.

It would be really nice if all the things you interact with such as bank, tavern, dummy, mail and auction house would be placed on the top deck and all the top deck would be marked as a tavern regeneration zone on all ships.

I'm also surprised that the devs didn't place hooks for the banker, tavern, or other amenities that can't be used with just an 'All Buff' clickie on the top deck. Some of the large hook amenities combine a banker et al. (I don't remember which ones) so this may have been the reason as these amenities take up a good deal of space.

[Gremmlynn]

No it will not be a negative to me directly I just think people should have an incentive to play smart and avoid death buffs going away was a very solid and noticeable loss I just think this further trivializes death where I think death should be a penalty.If that's the way you feel, maybe you should play perma-death or something like that in which all the participants agree to play that way rather than trying to push your personal preferences onto everybody.

[Nascoe]

If that's the way you feel, maybe you should play perma-death or something like that in which all the participants agree to play that way rather than trying to push your personal preferences onto everybody.

Well said Gremmlynn. We can all make choices to make our gameplay more challenging, from perma-deth, to roleplaying, to not using buffs, or other self imposed limits.

For me losing buffs has been a reason to hurry (and forget to buy hirelings, spellcomponents, SP pots, etc) and be impatient with people who still had to go to the bank, mailbox or indeed tallied with buffing up and indeed feel even worse (and fear being dropped for going to buff up myself or rather decide not to buff up after dying to save them from waiting for me) in parties in the past.

But while it was annoying to lose buffs and have to ask others to buff me up, or "carry me through" the quest after I was weakened from dying, that was never extra reason for me to try and avoid dying. Newer players are the most likely to profit from this, as they are most prone to die (lack of game knowledge, quest knowledge, lack of gear, weaker character builds, ...), at least now it won't mean they lose as much from that as they did before. For me the biggest worry when I started actually was not XP, or buffs lost, but the PP cost of repairing and fear of gear getting permanently damaged (when not having gazillion of PP), apart from feeling bad for causing an upset to the party.

I think the changes make using guild buffs that little bit more easy to use because of the timer stopping while outside of quests, longer duration as well as not losing buffs when dying. It also means one of the grudges against Turbine for some places where you HAVE to die to continue by design stops being as big an issue, because now at least you won't lose buffs (and if the bug-fixes actually work counters stop getting lost) so we can all have more fun. Losing something because you die is not fun for anyone.

[Seikojin]

So, while Madja has very helpfully listed out what is known of the new airship amenities and the data on how the old airships upgrade in this thread- https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441927-List-of-the-new-Guild-Amenities, I haven't been able to find a comprehensive place where the hard data on the new ships is listed yet. As such, I decided to log into Lamma, do some research, and find out myself so that those who haven't had the chance yet can begin dreaming about the future of their guilds.

The process is a bit tricky as the airship purchase process in particular is heavily bugged and confusing to many on these threads. Basically, there are three types of ships proposed at the moment- The Frigate (Min. Guild Level 100), The Cruiser (MGL 130), and the Man of War (MGL 150). There are also Deluxe versions of these three purchasable through shards (the basic ships are still plat), which cannot be purchased yet (the option is greyed out in the ui). Purchaseing the Frigate works as it should, but when you purchase a cruiser and load onto the ship it lists the ship as a "Deluxe Frigate," and when you purchase a Man of War it lists as a Cruiser. The Purchase ui meanwhile still lists it as a Cruiser or Man of War respectively. I suspect, though the devs could confirm this, that the barter ui is accurate and the ship itself is wrongly labeled due to the scaling of the amenities, the plat cost, and that all of the currently previewable ships have a Windspyre style design on the top deck, making it seem like it is the basic line offered (below decks is nice and orderly though!). At any rate, here is how the ships look on Lamma now. All ships have a top deck and a cargo hold for legacy buffs, so I'll only list the decks on which the new amenities go.

Frigate (MGL 100)

2 Decks

1st Deck contains 2 large hook points and 8 small hook points
2nd Deck contains 1 large hook point and 7 small hookpoints

Result- 3 large and 15 small



Cruiser (MGL 130)- Lists as "Deluxe Frigate" currently

3 Decks

1st Deck contains 2 large hook points and 8 small hook points
2nd Deck contains 1 large hook point and 6 small hook points
3rd Deck contains 1 large hook point and 4 small hook points

Result- 4 large and 18 small hook points



Man of War (MGL 150)- Lists as "Cruiser" currently (this is the double-masted ship some have posted pictures of)

3 Decks

1st Deck contains 2 large hook points and 8 small hook points
2nd Deck contains 2 large hook points and 8 small hook points
3rd Deck contains 1 large hook point and 6 small hook points

Result- 5 large and 22 small hook points


Hopefully the Deluxe versions will preview soon. Also, I welcome dev correction if their are any inaccuracies here due to the new ui bug. Hope this helps any of you who are curious like I am!

I was able to get the deluxe Man-o-war by buying the AS versions only and upgrading for each one. It has 6 large hookpoints across 4 floors and 22 (or 24) small + cargo. Unfortunately most of the large ones are bugged right now for some reason (floor 3 won't place at all, and the ones you place there go to random floors).


I really would prefer if the ships had some use for the top deck. On our actual guild ship we have a banker, a tavern, the dummy and some more stuff on the top deck because that is where everyone meets. As soon as you enter the ship you are in a tavern zone where your action boosts and clickies reset and that persists even when you are at the bank or hitting the dummy.

It would be really nice if all the things you interact with such as bank, tavern, dummy, mail and auction house would be placed on the top deck and all the top deck would be marked as a tavern regeneration zone on all ships.

Yeah I hope they add old hookpoints and some smalls to there. And maybe one large, so we can put the bath house on the top deck somewhere :D

[StoddardSolomon]

Can I get some concret information about the level of the new ships ? As most know I'm leader of the fastest leveling guild currently active and we'll soon reach 55 even without sagas so I got know if I should save to buy some new lvl 60/70 or what exactly is going to happen.

Any idea when this update will come out ? Also any idea of when is this ridiculous saga "bug" going to stop ?

[Lifespawn]

If that's the way you feel, maybe you should play perma-death or something like that in which all the participants agree to play that way rather than trying to push your personal preferences onto everybody.

Why do you think death should be no hindrance at all?

[BOgre]

Why do you think death should be no hindrance at all?

Again you attempt to muddy the argument. I think we can all agree that death SHOULD be something to avoid. It's just that the new ship buff system is an enormous quality of life fix. I feel that death and the buff system should be SEPARATE entities. If you want stronger death penalties, start a separate thread. Lobby for stronger death penalties, but leave the buff system alone.

[JOTMON]

I'm also surprised that the devs didn't place hooks for the banker, tavern, or other amenities that can't be used with just an 'All Buff' clickie on the top deck. Some of the large hook amenities combine a banker et al. (I don't remember which ones) so this may have been the reason as these amenities take up a good deal of space.

Hopefully they realize that all the interactive hook points need to be on the top deck.


Buffs .. below deck, activated by the single interface on top deck.. great.. that's what we want...

Interaction hook points like Auctioneer, Banker, Innkeeper, Teleporters.. all belong nicely arranged on the top deck.

[StoddardSolomon]

Can I get some concret information about the level of the new ships ? As most know I'm leader of the fastest leveling guild currently active and we'll soon reach 55 even without sagas so I got know if I should save to buy some new lvl 60/70 or what exactly is going to happen.

Any idea when this update will come out ? Also any idea of when is this ridiculous saga "bug" going to stop ?

Another thing what is the point of having all this new decoration and a Manowar with 4 sub decks if the one click all buff is on top ? I rather enjoy the "buff trip" I talk to people on the way and help them with the dummy and wave and a lot of fun stuff happens now all that is gone.

If the buffs will stay for hours and even if you die you should make it so people had to do a long buff trip or make it that the buff bar lasts only 1 hour or that it can be used only by pets.

[StoddardSolomon]

Another thing what is the point of having all this new decoration and a Manowar with 4 sub decks if the one click all buff is on top ? I rather enjoy the "buff trip" I talk to people on the way and help them with the dummy and wave and a lot of fun stuff happens now all that is gone.

If the buffs will stay for hours and even if you die you should make it so people had to do a long buff trip or make it that the buff bar lasts only 1 hour or that it can be used only by pets.

And one more thing what is the point ? Big ships will be ghost towns couse everyone will go to it click the buff and go out so why make it so fancy if very few will see it

[Ausdoerrt]

Another thing what is the point of having all this new decoration and a Manowar with 4 sub decks if the one click all buff is on top ? I rather enjoy the "buff trip" I talk to people on the way and help them with the dummy and wave and a lot of fun stuff happens now all that is gone.

You can still do it if you choose. No need to force your preferred way to play on others.

And actually, if they placed all the interactive amenities on top deck, there is your "social hub".

[stoerm]

WoW more Buffs,and Not Losing them on Death is over the top...now players have one less reason to learn battle tacticts.You build a character for what? just ship buff and all your worries ........lol what a JOKE! no need to worry what resistances you carry ,potion guy is goin out of business.

Please read what the changes are first. The resistance buffs are actually being nerfed, and they will no longer replace resists items and spells. It's a stacking bonus that scales according to character level. New players' lowbies will "only" get a +5 stacking resist bonus instead of the current +30. Again: the potion guy will get *more* business.

The new system is awesome.

[Ivan_Milic]

Please read what the changes are first. The resistance buffs are actually being nerfed, and they will no longer replace resists items and spells. It's a stacking bonus that scales according to character level. New players' lowbies will "only" get a +5 stacking resist bonus instead of the current +30. Again: the potion guy will get *more* business.

The new system is awesome.

Or you could have 35 resist now, up to 45, if you buy old buffs now and keep them in inventory.

[Lillou]

Fist of all : great job, I love the big button on the top ! I justs whish it would include the cargo's buff (old buff)

Sorry if this was already said somewhere but I didn't have the energy to read the 18 pages
We checked the guild ship lvl 130

Question :

We realized that everyone in guild (guild leader, officers and members) can change amenities and uses guild shards to buy new amenities
This is not an issue for little guild like mine but can be one with big guild if everyone start changing/buying stuff.
Is this meant to be on Lamania for the testing or is this going to remain this way ?
How many shards will the amenities cost ?


Bugs :

When you change hookpoint (examplef from a small one to another smaller) the hookpoint becomes inactive and you have to change floor to reactivate it. If on the way you step on an small hookpoint then it won't work again.
Can't buy above 1 : Guild Vault - Shrine to the Devourer - Sign of the Sivler Flame and Stormreaver Memorial - Grand Reliquary
Somme Amenities are turned the wrong way when we put them in room then we can't enter and not even reach the hookpoint to change it…

[Gremmlynn]

Why do you think death should be no hindrance at all?I don't think that nor have I ever posted what I think it should be as I don't believe the game should be built to my personal specifications (FYI, I often solo where rebuffing after a death is normal, as I generally end up restarting anyway in that case). Why do you think everyone should play to yours?

If you were to advocate for a "remove buffs on death" toggle in the options menu, I'd agree wholeheartedly with it. But I can't agree with anyone who seems to feel everyone should have the same motivations for playing as they do.

[Lifespawn]

I don't think that nor have I ever posted what I think it should be as I don't believe the game should be built to my personal specifications (FYI, I often solo where rebuffing after a death is normal, as I generally end up restarting anyway in that case). Why do you think everyone should play to yours?

If you were to advocate for a "remove buffs on death" toggle in the options menu, I'd agree wholeheartedly with it. But I can't agree with anyone who seems to feel everyone should have the same motivations for playing as they do.

all i'm saying is that there should be some reason to avoid death that is all some negative reason to keep the danger of dying a factor.

and doing it now before getting everyone used to no negative to death is easier than trying to put it in later when they realize it's a mistake to take the danger out

[B0ltdrag0n]

Looks great! I like the changes. Glad buffs won't trivialize content and even more glad they are going to be permanent!

Well done!


I like that the people who says that buffs wont trivialize content generally mean the resistance buffs.

The only change is now I will carry some pots or memorize the resist spell and have +25 buffs during my low level play as opposed to 30...which then increased to 35 at level 7 opposed to the currently 30...and is straight up better from 11+

So its a net gain all around at the cost of a spell I generally prep in case people die anyway.

[Bolo_Grubb]

mmm not sure if this is better or worse then what we have now

[StoddardSolomon]

Man you kids going on and on about "death penalty"

Let me explain something to you all there is NO death penalty in DDO, you dont lose gear or xp you don't lose anything at most what you "lose" is the time to restart a quest

Get real play DF or Tibia then you'll see what death penalty is


What I do wanna talk about is ammenities cost and if there are new ships level 80- can anyone answer that

[Ebondevil]

What I do wanna talk about is ammenities cost and if there are new ships level 80- can anyone answer that

Last I checked Amenity costs weren't set.

New ships are level's 100+ with the best Plat ship at Guild level 150 as far as I recall (my memory's not perfect though).

I think it was Guild levels 110, 130 and 150 for the plat ships.

All the new Astral Shard Ships were set at Guild Level 0 last I saw them.

[StoddardSolomon]

Last I checked Amenity costs weren't set.

New ships are level's 100+ with the best Plat ship at Guild level 150 as far as I recall (my memory's not perfect though).

I think it was Guild levels 110, 130 and 150 for the plat ships.

All the new Astral Shard Ships were set at Guild Level 0 last I saw them.


Ohh so at guild lvl 45 I can buy a Typhoon ? Seriously ? lol...

Also another thing I just considered is that the cities will be empty since now nobody will go CH or just hang out becouse very few like me make the ship with all the business points but now that is a single ammenity for all everyone will have and cities will be empty and new players will see them empty and will think its a dead game and will quit

Consider that dev's

[Ebondevil]

Ohh so at guild lvl 45 I can buy a Typhoon ? Seriously ? lol...

I didn't look at the old guild Ships, but they may not change.

[Drevok]

1. please let us put some items on the deck. The main reason why we got a astral shard ship was for the nice deck. let us put the tavern and bank and a chest there. the dummy would be nice to have as well for decoration. The top deck is where we gather, around the tavern, in between quests. Please.

[StoddardSolomon]

Well can a dev tell us if there will be new ships level 80- and if AS ships will have no minimum guild level ?

[Bargol]

Maybe I am the only one but..... other then the idea of the buff all button, a timer that pauses in public, and some new/different buffs the update to guild ships is terrible.

1. You removed everything from the top of the ship. Many guilds have a banker, mailbox, tavern, dummy, auction, etc. on this top deck and is, at least in my guild where people congregate doing account maint. while waiting, or to do a quick sell between quests. Why even bother to have the top deck be so large? Might as well make it a small dingy.

2. All the huge wasted space with giant "room" amenities, window dressing, and poor layout in lower decks makes little to no sense. I have no clue why you took the few good ideas forumites had and made it into this abortion....likely spending huge amounts of design hours for no reason.

3. Retroactively and seriously changing airships people purchased with real money. Lower decks to accommodate the new buffs should have been added not completely taking away the existing ship and forcing a bad design on the player base and pushing all existing hook points into a dark cellar you likely will take away at some later update.

4. "Legacy buffs" I know there is the crowd saying ship buffs make the game to easy, but after years of having them don't you think its a little to late to remove them? Remove the buffs or not the game as a whole (especially heroics) has been made to easy catering to the casual crowd. You could remove all ship buffs and the game is still to easy.

5. This is yet just another example of throwing out or ignoring the old system, while adding or replacing with an overly complex and uneeded system.

Really what is the vision here? Trying to force guilds off their ships?

Sad....just very sad. The guild ship update as it currently stands should be scrapped.

[slarden]

Maybe I am the only one but..... other then the idea of the buff all button, a timer that pauses in public, and some new/different buffs the update to guild ships is terrible.

1. You removed everything from the top of the ship. Many guilds have a banker, mailbox, tavern, dummy, auction, etc. on this top deck and is, at least in my guild where people congregate doing account maint. while waiting, or to do a quick sell between quests. Why even bother to have the top deck be so large? Might as well make it a small dingy.

2. All the huge wasted space with giant "room" amenities, window dressing, and poor layout in lower decks makes little to no sense. I have no clue why you took the few good ideas forumites had and made it into this abortion....likely spending huge amounts of design hours for no reason.

3. Retroactively and seriously changing airships people purchased with real money. Lower decks to accommodate the new buffs should have been added not completely taking away the existing ship and forcing a bad design on the player base and pushing all existing hook points into a dark cellar you likely will take away at some later update.

4. "Legacy buffs" I know there is the crowd saying ship buffs make the game to easy, but after years of having them don't you think its a little to late to remove them? Remove the buffs or not the game as a whole (especially heroics) has been made to easy catering to the casual crowd. You could remove all ship buffs and the game is still to easy.

5. This is yet just another example of throwing out or ignoring the old system, while adding or replacing with an overly complex and uneeded system.

Really what is the vision here? Trying to force guilds off their ships?

Sad....just very sad. The guild ship update as it currently stands should be scrapped.

This was my initial reaction about losing the convenience items on the top deck, but now that I populated a ship the new system really grew on me. All you have to do is pick one floor for convenience items and it's a few steps to get there. Once there, there are more conveniences than before:

The convenience deck can have

Shroud crafting (which now has the altar to make greensteel blanks!)
Orien Express: Mail box, auctioneer and bank
Sellsword's Tavern: Barkeep and all hireling vendors
Three Finger Thad's: General Vendor and pawn shops
Crusader's chapel: Divine vendor with spell materials
Arcane Sanctum: Arcane vendor with spell materials and spell inscription materials
Archery Range: House D ammunition Vendor


The only thing I would like to see changed is that the entire floor with the tavern should have tavern regeneration instead of city regeneration.

The cannith crafting room I am a bit concerned about due to potential lag. I saw a 20 second lag spike when placing it, but haven't seen any other lag since then. That is convenient to break down items rather than sell.

I certainly wouldn't object to having the bank, tavern and mail box up top, but the new system is still saving me so much time and offering so much more.

[Lifespawn]

This was my initial reaction about losing the convenience items on the top deck, but now that I populated a ship the new system really grew on me. All you have to do is pick one floor for convenience items and it's a few steps to get there. Once there, there are more conveniences than before:

The convenience deck can have

Shroud crafting (which now has the altar to make greensteel blanks!)
Orien Express: Mail box, auctioneer and bank
Sellsword's Tavern: Barkeep and all hireling vendors
Three Finger Thad's: General Vendor and pawn shops
Crusader's chapel: Divine vendor with spell materials
Arcane Sanctum: Arcane vendor with spell materials and spell inscription materials
Archery Range: House D ammunition Vendor


The only thing I would like to see changed is that the entire floor with the tavern should have tavern regeneration instead of city regeneration.

The cannith crafting room I am a bit concerned about due to potential lag. I saw a 20 second lag spike when placing it, but haven't seen any other lag since then. That is convenient to break down items rather than sell.

I certainly wouldn't object to having the bank, tavern and mail box up top, but the new system is still saving me so much time and offering so much more.


I agree with all of this even though it would be nice to have the stuff on the top deck it is already vastly superior to what we have now bot in terms of time and what is offered.

And the crafting hall on ship might fix a lot of lag issues depending on how they do it specific crafting instance lag may go away and no worry about i2049 anymore.