Casual, normal, and hardcore player defintions

[Turbosilk]

I hear a lot of talk about what player types like, want, and need but im not sure everyone agrees on definitions.

Id like to hear responses and maybe we can come to a concensus.

To me:
Casual player, plays to pass time. No real goals. Plays up to4 hours a week. Isnt concerned so much about gear, exp, builds. Just likes to play the game and maybe only plays with RL normal and hardcore plyers. Mostly runs normal mode. Rarely raids.

Normal player. Plays 5 to 15 hours a week. Has some goals. Knows gear, builds, and exp and factors that into play. Mostly runs EH with some normal and elite to include epics. Does raid mostly on hard. This is the majority of the user base.

Hardcore. Plays 15+ hours a week. Has clearly defined goals. Detailed knowledge of gear, builds, exp, etc. Mostly runs elite to include epic and includes raids. Needs a challenge. This group is 10% of the player base and is the indicator group as to where the game is heading. A health of the game indicator group.

[cdbd3rd]

Can't say I agree that time played fits in with the categories.

I consider myself absolutely Casual, but can spend 15+ hours* in game some weeks - crafting, wandering around aimlessly, AH shopping, FISHING, etc.

*(Between here and LOTRO, obviously)

Otherwise, I have no qualms with the generalizations applied to the player styles you've listing.

[sebastianosmith]

Nah. I'm a casual player (4-6 hours a weekend) because I run with a static group that can only schedule everyone during weekends. I know builds, gearing and quests inside and out. I have definite goals that I may or may not ever complete. I just don't have the time to do anything more.

Pigeonholing the player base is a fruitless endeavor. Just play and enjoy. The rest will take care of itself.

[Qhualor]

Time has little to do with anything. I know people that play about an hour a day and grind for xp, gear or whatever just as much as a power gamer. I know players that play 30 hours a week or more and flower sniff their way through the game just enjoying playing and no specific goals. I know some players that never get off the TR train and have 6 fvs, fighter, wizard or whatever past lives. I know some players that have first life characters and never TR them, but they have the best gear in the game.

Actual play time and actual log in time can vary for players. Myself, I am logged in 4-6 hours on average per day but most times I actually play 2-4 hours on average per day.

According to your definitions, I fall under normal/hardcore.

[Azarddoze]

Most things you stated here are personnal caracteristics, not really attributes for different kind of players. When I think about casuals vs normal vs hardcore players, what comes to my mind is their relation toward content, difficulty and possibly the effort they put in their playing. By effort, I mean are they looking to do what it takes to overcome a challenge or just looking for an easy play through.

What I think really diffentiate group of players (or what I think is more important) is what they do in-game and what features do they use and which do they not use.

Explanation: (Note that this is not always truth, individuals are complex)

more "Casuals" oriented : They use about everything that the games offer. They run quest, play AH, enjoy events, try out builds. They're also looking to make their character stronger.

more RPG-oriented : They mostly like to run quests and everything that is related to fighting or which can grants more character power. They may enjoy most of the features but they're main interrest still is questing and loot. I'd say that's what they think they'll do when they log in : Kill and loot.

Powergamers : They enjoy builds complexity and finding holes into them. They enjoy a challenge (or not, but they're usually "better than average") and pretty much all they care about is acquiring power. Through fighting or reading, it doesn't matter, they want moar power. They may play the AH but it's mostly to be on top of the economy. Events? Sure if there is an upgrade at the end.


What happen is, the more you go down in categories, the less feature they actually use during their gaming session. Now where am I going with this? Well it sucks that the first categories have the power to affect the later categories while the other way around isn't possible.


Edit: I left socializing out of this as it is purely a personnal attribute.

Important : All of those are customers which theoritically pays the same to play the game.

[Blackheartox]

What about people who play 10 hours daily?
Do we get a special kind of definition?
Anyways, jokes aside.

To classify people in specific groups makes no point to me.
Every human on this earth is unique, so are all ddo players, so you cant realy make only 3 groups of sorts of players.
If you had to make groups make them gimps and non gimps xD
And hardcores arent realy only 10%, with the population loss of many players, the gap between casuals and regular players has become small so its definitely more then only 5% or 10% as most people assume it is.

[Chauncey1]

I play 6-8 hours a day and more on weekends, but I kinda just play the game and grab the best gear that is relatively easily acquired rather than grinding forever for the superultramega epic items. Though sometimes I wish I did.

[Turbosilk]

Good responses so far. I think there is validi to some sort of definition because a lot of the CoV discussion i see is centered around "the casual players dont like it". So what is a casual player? With my defintion, the casuals that play with me really dont have TR tokens or CoVs on their radar.

[Sarzor]

Casual: Anyone who is lazier than me

Normal: Me

Hardcore: Anyone more serious about the game than me

[Sebastrd]

Casual: Anyone who is lazier than me

Normal: Me

Hardcore: Anyone more serious about the game than me

Ain't that the truth...

[sebastianosmith]

Good responses so far. I think there is validi to some sort of definition because a lot of the CoV discussion i see is centered around "the casual players dont like it". So what is a casual player? With my defintion, the casuals that play with me really dont have TR tokens or CoVs on their radar.

The only way to meaningfully categorize the playerbase is to prioritize motivations and goals. There are many more reasons people play this game than the span between "Time-Killer" and "Uber-Toon".

I, for instance, play to reconnect or enjoy the company of those I with whom I used to play D&D long ago or to simply share an activity with my family and friends. I just don't care all that much about having the "Best Of"... whatever. Doing so does not prevent me from learning about and understanding the complex depths of the game. It's just that I, and probably a significant proportion of the playerbase, have other things to do outside of DDO.

Let's all enjoy the game as much as we can and let the marketroids worry about their little demographics charts.

[Impaqt]

what is the goal of putting people into Categories exactly?

[zwiebelring]

Casual gamer: plays for playing sake to get mainly distracted. leveling: slowly

Normal gamer: pays to avoid grind. Plays for enjoyment, little goals like 1 past live or 2, Completionist maybe but probably not.

Hardcore gamer: cries on forum this game was too easy, needs moar challenge, moar dps, moar dots, moar moar....;P. Wants to be the best and play the game to its full potential and learn every detail (that includes exploits, because, well, somebody has to try stuff to find some of them)


what is the goal of putting people into Categories exactly?
To either get less subjectives into general discussions or to know what person you are adressing without starting: ''Well, the way I play this game...'' all the time.

[Azarddoze]

what is the goal of putting people into Categories exactly?

It could (will not) possibly make some realize the main reasons other kind of players play and maybe (not) help realize that, say, better gear for EE, isn't a way to drag someone else down but to enjoy the game in a different way and for different motives. It caters to a different group of player and... even loot doesn't have to cater to 100%.

Other than that, forum drama of course.

[Ivan_Milic]

I hear a lot of talk about what player types like, want, and need but im not sure everyone agrees on definitions.

Id like to hear responses and maybe we can come to a concensus.

To me:
Casual player, plays to pass time. No real goals. Plays up to4 hours a week. Isnt concerned so much about gear, exp, builds. Just likes to play the game and maybe only plays with RL normal and hardcore plyers. Mostly runs normal mode. Rarely raids.

Normal player. Plays 5 to 15 hours a week. Has some goals. Knows gear, builds, and exp and factors that into play. Mostly runs EH with some normal and elite to include epics. Does raid mostly on hard. This is the majority of the user base.

Hardcore. Plays 15+ hours a week. Has clearly defined goals. Detailed knowledge of gear, builds, exp, etc. Mostly runs elite to include epic and includes raids. Needs a challenge. This group is 10% of the player base and is the indicator group as to where the game is heading. A health of the game indicator group.

Hardore 15+, thats like just 2.5h per day, hardly hardcore.

[FranOhmsford]

Casual gamer: plays for playing sake to get mainly distracted. leveling: slowly

Normal gamer: pays to avoid grind. Plays for enjoyment, little goals like 1 past live or 2, Completionist maybe but probably not.

Hardcore gamer: cries on forum this game was too easy, needs moar challenge, moar dps, moar dots, moar moar....;P. Wants to be the best and play the game to its full potential and learn every detail (that includes exploits, because, well, somebody has to try stuff to find some of them)


To either get less subjectives into general discussions or to know what person you are adressing without starting: ''Well, the way I play this game...'' all the time.

Perfect definitions.

/Signed

Oh and I guess this shows me as Normal - Who knew?

[Chauncey1]

Ain't that the truth...

Indeed it is.

[Nestroy]

Casual gamer: plays for playing sake to get mainly distracted. leveling: slowly

Normal gamer: pays to avoid grind. Plays for enjoyment, little goals like 1 past live or 2, Completionist maybe but probably not.

Hardcore gamer: cries on forum this game was too easy, needs moar challenge, moar dps, moar dots, moar moar....;P. Wants to be the best and play the game to its full potential and learn every detail (that includes exploits, because, well, somebody has to try stuff to find some of them)


To either get less subjectives into general discussions or to know what person you are adressing without starting: ''Well, the way I play this game...'' all the time.

/signed

I would give some time tables as well...

Casual: Plays once in a while.
Normal: More than once a week and maybe even daily at least for a few strides left and right (e.g. dice, 1-2 quests or checking the AH). Might have one completionist after 2-3 years of gaming and several alts. I would name myself a "normal player" with that description.
Hardcore: Knows every stone and corner. Daily exposure to DDO for prolonged times at once. Owns at least one Completionist and has several alts on different servers. Levels a complete heroic + epic TR within about one week or even faster. And Zwiebelring is right - always moans on the forums that EE is much too easy ^^.

[KoboldKiller]

Can't say I agree that time played fits in with the categories.

I consider myself absolutely Casual, but can spend 15+ hours* in game some weeks - crafting, wandering around aimlessly, AH shopping, FISHING, etc.

*(Between here and LOTRO, obviously)

Otherwise, I have no qualms with the generalizations applied to the player styles you've listing.


Agreed, I put in plenty of hours but would consider myself casual-normal (normal being subjective :D) but otherwise the rest of the definition seems accurate enough.

[Nayus]

To classify people in specific groups makes no point to me.Food, fast food, gourmet food... keep on.

Every human on this earth is uniqueHey, how about trolls?

[Nibor]

what is the goal of putting people into Categories exactly?

For the forum users? Not much.

The game developers, however, would do well to understand some broad, basic user psychographics, to understand some basic motivations of why their customers play the game, and then make sure they have game elements that are enticing to as many of the major psychographics as possible in each game update. In this way they can cater to the broad userbase while still providing focus into what people want.

Of course, no two people have all the exact same motivations, and it would be wrong to assume that you could categorize every player into one of a few categories. In fact most players will probably cross-over between multiple categories. As long as you know they're broad generalizations, you can hopefully avoid the pitfalls of thinking of them as precise.

The definitions in the OP are not very good for this sort of thing - play time is completely the wrong approach. In fact someone who enjoys the social aspect of the game, talking with fellow game players, and so forth, might very well play a lot more hours per day than someone who plays with laser-focus and is attempting to maximize character improvement per minute played. Instead you focus on the emotional motivations of why people play - raw power of character, setting "power records" of speed and damage, or building unique characters, or recreating favorite character styles from other sources, or group play with a static group of friends, or heavy role-play, or...you get the idea, there are quite a few motivations to play and I would expect that most people have several.

HHoE is a good example of a quest that appeals to multiple types of players - valuable loot, interesting lore, nostalgia effects, exploration of environment...it's a good overall product in that regard.

[Rapthorn]

Just an observation that I've noticed so far and mainly because I don't seem to fit into any of these is that there is nothing in between normal and hardcore. It reminded me of the difference between epic hard and epic elite. The jump is just too great.

I don't fall into most examples of what a hardcore is but I am certainly not in the normal category. Can we have a different definition for those of us that fall in between those two?

[Grace_ana]

I'm fairly certain Turbine has its own definitions for these things, based upon their own internal numbers. If the goal is to have us all talking about the same thing when we discuss things like CoVs or whatever (and incidentally, the reason Turbine gave for not reducing the number of CoVs had nothing to do at all with casual vs normal vs hardcore), then wouldn't it make more sense to just ask Turbine to tell us how they define it?

What I see with these definitions is more that they are a reflection of the person's personal perspective on the game, heavily weighted towards themselves, instead of really being am objective definition. That's probably to be expected, but it makes it pretty useless as a standard. I don't fit into a single category anyone else has listed, for example.

[Turbosilk]

what is the goal of putting people into Categories exactly?

I stated in the post that the CoV discussion seems to be driven by "the casuals say they arent getting enough CoVs". Who are these casuals? I dont think they visit the forums much and dont really care about CoVs.

[MuleAxe]

Some observations about this thread... who cares, just passing time.

Seriously... I'm one of these... guess which?

People who need to organize things into categories
People who debate these categories
People who read this stuff to pass the time during slow work hours, and really don't care.

[Portalcat]

The really hardcore players are the players who do not 1, but 2 TRs per week.




...there is no true Scotsman.

[Chai]

defined goals, knowledge of game, and difficulty setting have nothing to do with it.

Some of the best players and most knowledgeable players ive seen are 2 days a week and do not have goals that line up with the powergamers.

Casual is more of a time consumption label than anything else. Some powergamers have multiple accounts loaded with end game geared characters. Casuals have less than that, but the charactrs they do have are often times just as powerful, they just have 2-3 toons rather than 30.

The only real disparity is metagaming. Having been here longer and run more quests more often, some folks attempt to classify others who havent memorized the quests as having less skill, when its more like less metagaming knowledge.

[Enoach]

Categorizing players as Casual, Normal and Hardcore is difficult because while hours played may appear as an indicator it is actually only a side-effect

What is missed is that all 3 play the game to have fun - mind you each defines fun differently

The other problem is many things pointed out by the OP is really more indicators that you can use to describe New player to Knowledgeable player. Hours played per week does not mean a player is or is not knowledgeable of how the game mechanic works.

If it were to be measured it would be in the META-GAMING that is a clearer definition between the categories

[Gremmlynn]

I hear a lot of talk about what player types like, want, and need but im not sure everyone agrees on definitions.

Id like to hear responses and maybe we can come to a concensus.

To me:
Casual player, plays to pass time. No real goals. Plays up to4 hours a week. Isnt concerned so much about gear, exp, builds. Just likes to play the game and maybe only plays with RL normal and hardcore plyers. Mostly runs normal mode. Rarely raids.

Normal player. Plays 5 to 15 hours a week. Has some goals. Knows gear, builds, and exp and factors that into play. Mostly runs EH with some normal and elite to include epics. Does raid mostly on hard. This is the majority of the user base.

Hardcore. Plays 15+ hours a week. Has clearly defined goals. Detailed knowledge of gear, builds, exp, etc. Mostly runs elite to include epic and includes raids. Needs a challenge. This group is 10% of the player base and is the indicator group as to where the game is heading. A health of the game indicator group.Why would you think that why one plays and how much one plays that great a relationship to one another.

While one who takes the game more seriously will likely want to play more, how much one plays likely has a lot more to do with how much one can play than anything.

To me, a casual player is someone who isn't interested in every little nuance (nuisance?) of the game and mostly likes playing in whatever manner they find fun. What works best is less important than what's most fun to them.

While a hardcore player takes "beating" the game very seriously to the point that it could be called their playstyle. Whatever works best is what they find most fun.

With the vast majority somewhere in between.

[Teh_Troll]

Hey, how about trolls?
We are higher life-forms, know your place mammal.

[Teh_Troll]

And the only difference between a regular and a hardcore player is a leather mask and a ball-gag.

[darkly_dreaming]

I don't like catagorizing any group as 'normal' as that implies that everyone else is abnormal.

Also, you need a catagory past 'Hardcore' - maybe 'Insane'. I don't mind labling those people. :)

[Talon_Moonshadow]

This game is my main source of entertainment: I play a lot!

I also enjoy a challenge and like to gain favor.

I refuse to grind however....

I play for fun. I do not stress about new guys or people dying etc.

I do have goals, but there is no time-table for them.

I dislike leading LFMs; seldom put up my own; and just join those I see that don't have comments that turn me off.

I have completed every quest in the game; over 90% on E/EE (very close to 100% actually)..

I readily join EE quests.

My builds have a lot of flavor to them; but never FotM builds. (personal, fun flavor, not min/maxing flavor)

I do not own a Moncher, or Shiradi Sorc, seldom play WF casters.....

Know 90% of the quests very well.

Seldom solo difficult quests.

Would never even dream of going for a speed record.

I've done optionals most other players do not even know exist....

/danced with Beholders.....



Hmmmm....


So... what does that make me?

[Nibor]

I'm fairly certain Turbine has its own definitions for these things, based upon their own internal numbers.

I doubt they do, actually. I think they probably have lists of categories of things some of the playerbase likes and that's about the extent of it. It would probably be useful for them to have a list of 5 or 6 psychotropes and to refer to that list repeatedly during design. "The powergamer will love this", "the explorer will want there to be more to do in this quest", "This quest won't be liked by the powergamer but the D&D nostalgia player will LOVE it"

But we're just the forumites so it doesn't really matter much to us. Except when they want to talk design with us, which recently they appear to have. Then it would be useful if they shared those psychotropes that they use and the design goals they have, because many of us do not really understand the motivations for other players. It's a lot easier to talk about why a piece of loot sucks when someone can say "That piece of loot isn't for you, it's for this other group of people. Your stuff is over in that part of the update."

[Nibor]

So... what does that make me?

go read Mark Rosewater's articles on MTG design and Spike, Timmy, and Johnny. You're classic Johnny.

Those don't fully fit the DDO model, there's missing pieces for an MMO that don't apply to a tabletop CCG (Although a lot of the missing parts fall under the "Vorthos" category). But it's a good example of how to think about a useful way to classify players.

[Teh_Troll]

So... what does that make me?

A prime candidate for my course. Once again, my rates are reasonable.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

go read Mark Rosewater's articles on MTG design and Spike, Timmy, and Johnny. You're classic Johnny.

Those don't fully fit the DDO model, there's missing pieces for an MMO that don't apply to a tabletop CCG (Although a lot of the missing parts fall under the "Vorthos" category). But it's a good example of how to think about a useful way to classify players.

Just read it....


lol... yeah, "win with style"... that's me....lol.

[janave]

These days i usually log on for few hours piking EE and Eraid content. So, I guess i am in the casual group.

The majority of the common "faces" are uberleett powergamers, the existence of a party is merely for that occasional lag/lazyreflex/badroll moment, loot sharing, and the social aspects of the "hi" on quest start and a "thanks" on completion.

[Turbosilk]

These days i usually log on for few hours piking EE and Eraid content. So, I guess i am in the casual group.

The majority of the common "faces" are uberleett powergamers, the existence of a party is merely for that occasional lag/lazyreflex/badroll moment, loot sharing, and the social aspects of the "hi" on quest start and a "thanks" on completion.

Maybe you are in the normal/regular/standard player category.

[Nahiz]

IMO, playing time is the best way to measure casual, normal, hardcore gamers. I´m not talking about flower sniffing or power gaming. Those should be addressed on gear, quest rerunning (farm/grind), time on leveling and, to a lesser extent, builds complexity. Time is the biggest commodity, no doubt about it though.

I´d say a casual gamer plays less than 7 hours a week (1 hour a day average), a normal player less than 14 hours a week (2 hours a day average) and a hardcore player more than 14 a week. Of course, most power gamers, in order to level to 28 in a week or so, should be playing (with knowledge of best xp max quests, top notch leveling gear and all)... what? 40 hours a week?

[Ivan_Milic]

IMO, playing time is the best way to measure casual, normal, hardcore gamers. I´m not talking about flower sniffing or power gaming. Those should be addressed on gear, quest rerunning (farm/grind), time on leveling and, to a lesser extent, builds complexity. Time is the biggest commodity, no doubt about it though.

I´d say a casual gamer plays less than 7 hours a week (1 hour a day average), a normal player less than 14 hours a week (2 hours a day average) and a hardcore player more than 14 a week. Of course, most power gamers, in order to level to 28 in a week or so, should be playing (with knowledge of best xp max quests, top notch leveling gear and all)... what? 40 hours a week?

Think 30 or more hours to etr, all depends if you have 50% pot running.

[Tinco]

A heartfelt '?' is all I can contribute here.

[Turbosilk]

IMO, playing time is the best way to measure casual, normal, hardcore gamers. I´m not talking about flower sniffing or power gaming. Those should be addressed on gear, quest rerunning (farm/grind), time on leveling and, to a lesser extent, builds complexity. Time is the biggest commodity, no doubt about it though.

I´d say a casual gamer plays less than 7 hours a week (1 hour a day average), a normal player less than 14 hours a week (2 hours a day average) and a hardcore player more than 14 a week. Of course, most power gamers, in order to level to 28 in a week or so, should be playing (with knowledge of best xp max quests, top notch leveling gear and all)... what? 40 hours a week?

I like your response the best so far with a tweek. normal players 7 to 20 hours because they may play but that doesnt make you hardcore.

[Nahiz]

Think 30 or more hours to etr, all depends if you have 50% pot running.

Without a pot it is, aprox., 45 hours. Pretty close to my guess, then.

I play 7-8 hours a week and it takes me, not 1 and 1/2 months, but 4 or 5 months to get to lev28: no pots, no zerg, no xp/min farming, 50% gear from the AH, all heroic quests on elite incluiding Vale (then all on hard). That´s 160 hours to get to lev28. 4 times the time it takes a power gamer.

If gaming time is the best measure for casual/hardcore, now that I think of it, the time it takes on average to TR or ETR (or at least to get to lev 20 or 28) is the best way to tell a flower sniffer from a power gamer.

Pugging would be much smoother (run along similar gamers) if people post this on their signatures/LFMs.

Hey, I´m Nahiz, it takes me 160 hours to get to lev28. What about you?

[Ivan_Milic]

Without a pot it is, aprox., 45 hours. Pretty close to my guess, then.

I play 7-8 hours a week and it takes me, not 1 and 1/2 months, but 4 or 5 months to get to lev28: no pots, no zerg, no xp/min farming, 50% gear from the AH, all heroic quests on elite incluiding Vale (then all on hard). That´s 160 hours to get to lev28. 4 times the time it takes a power gamer.

If gaming time is the best measure for casual/hardcore, now that I think of it, the time it takes on average to TR or ETR (or at least to get to lev 20 or 28) is the best way to tell a flower sniffer from a power gamer.

Pugging would be much smoother (run along similar gamers) if people post this on their signatures/LFMs.

Hey, I´m Nahiz, it takes me 160 hours to get to lev28. What about you?

I meant from 20-28 with no first time bonuses.

[AtomicMew]

Here are the real definitions:

Casual player: One level 20 toon or less

Normal player: At least one epic or normal completionist

Hardcore player: At least two uber completionists and/or has made at least 100,000 TP by selling loot.

[kazeikan]

Here are the real definitions:

Casual player: One level 20 toon or less

Normal player: At least one epic or normal completionist

Hardcore player: At least two uber completionists and/or has made at least 100,000 TP by selling loot.

Umm... I don't know what to say.

Also everyone who said hey I fit that and that description but I do this and this too. You're a special cupcake. I had a summit meeting with your mother to make sure. ;p

[FranOhmsford]

Here are the real definitions:

Casual player: One level 20 toon or less

Normal player: At least one epic or normal completionist

Hardcore player: At least two uber completionists and/or has made at least 100,000 TP by selling loot.

I fit NONE of these descriptions!

I have Multiple Lvl 20-25 characters - None at 26-28!
Multiple Heroic TRs - None have gone past their 4th Life so far!

You've left a HUGE Gap in between Casual and Normal!


Also - I know of a number of Players who would by no means fit anyone's definition of Hardcore who've earned a shed load on AH/ASAH!

[Grimlock]

and the only difference between a regular and a hardcore player is a leather mask and a ball-gag.

bring out the gimp!

[AzB]

The only problem with labels is that moods change with the days. I have friends that I enjoy playing with that are distinctly casual. I have been known to zerg on occasion. Mostly I'm just flexible and play however the group wants. If I don't feel like playing at someone else's speed, I solo.

My main is an uber dual completionist, but I also enjoy another alt that has a bunch of past lives, but not completionist... and no desire to. I also have a first life bard that I play with casuals and for the challenge. (All these people complaining about no challenge while they play bladeforged shiradi sorcs with 2 levels of pally/monk are missing the point)

Labels are for people that are too lazy to accept that people are different. They want to create little pigeonholes for the wide range of people encountered because it's easier for them to validate/invalidate others quickly and easily rather than take time to find out for themselves.

Fun people are fun. The game is just the vehicle, not the point.

[Ivan_Milic]

Here are the real definitions:

Casual player: One level 20 toon or less

Normal player: At least one epic or normal completionist

Hardcore player: At least two uber completionists and/or has made at least 100,000 TP by selling loot.

So I dont fit anywhere.

[Teh_Troll]

I'm sticking with the ball-gag being the defining item of the hardcore player.

[AtomicMew]

I fit NONE of these descriptions!

I have Multiple Lvl 20-25 characters - None at 26-28!
Multiple Heroic TRs - None have gone past their 4th Life so far!

You've left a HUGE Gap in between Casual and Normal!


Also - I know of a number of Players who would by no means fit anyone's definition of Hardcore who've earned a shed load on AH/ASAH!


Well of course, the descriptions are just general. Nobody fits any particular tier exactly. So it's best to just err on the safe side: you are a casual player. I myself am only a normal player, although I know many hardcore players.

[AtomicMew]

So I dont fit anywhere.

I'm sorry to hear you feel that way. Finding one's place in life is not easy.

[AtomicMew]

Also - I know of a number of Players who would by no means fit anyone's definition of Hardcore who've earned a shed load on AH/ASAH!

AH/ASAH don't count, shards are in more abundance than TP since there are other source ssuch as astral diomnonds.

[nibel]

While I believe the gamers can be categorized , I think you are using too few categories. The less categories you use, the broader you must make them, thus making them less relevant for anything.

For Turbine's interest, I think they have many other categories more important than "is someone casual or hardcore". For example:

Play Motivation: is this player playing because she likes the story, the setting, the loot, or the challenge?
Social Aspect: Is this player playing mostly solo, mostly in LFM groups, or mostly in guild groups?
Character Building: Is this player creating his own build, using a pre-made path, or using a popular forum build? And why?
Economic Aspect: Is this player spending money in the store, using the free TP their earn on favor/VIP bonus, or not buying anything at all and just sitting on their TP pile? And if spending, on what?
Play Time: Is this player logging every day? And for how long? And doing how many quests per day?


And probably a half dozen other categories.

Just saying "oh, a casual player play half hour per week, and takes two years to cap a character, and will only play on casual with no named loot" is ignoring that people are nuanced.

A single example is what I call a "casual powergamer". The kind of player that know, study, and want the best character they can make, but simply do not have the time to invest to do this in a short term. So, they play two or three hours per day, do a raid or two every time they can to gather items, and so on. He is a powergamer in heart, but just can't compromise their time to the game.

[Ykt]

I hear a lot of talk about what player types like, want, and need but im not sure everyone agrees on definitions.

Id like to hear responses and maybe we can come to a concensus.


You're obviously starting a troll thread:

Coming to a consensus on the internet?
Gamers agreeing on something?
Inventing definitions?

Either you're new to the world or your goal is to create drama.

[stoerm]

I'm sticking with the ball-gag being the defining item of the hardcore player.

A casual plays a gimp, while a hardcore is a gimp?

GEBKAC - Gimp Exists Between Keyboard And Chair?

[Nédime]

Here are the real definitions:

Casual player: One level 20 toon or less

Normal player: At least one epic or normal completionist

Hardcore player: At least two uber completionists and/or has made at least 100,000 TP by selling loot.

Isn't this a way of saying : hey i'm uber i've made 100K tp by selling loot ?


Great thread, anyways, much /popcorn

[Teh_Troll]

A casual plays a gimp, while a hardcore is a gimp?

The Irony . . .

[Franke]

Complete claptrap.

[salmag]

Casual Player - has a complete life outside of DDO. Coincides with Married with children, works full time (possibly 2nd job)..

Normal Player - has a partial life outside of DDO. Coincides with a Girl/Boyfriend, no Children, works occasionally (possibly part-time).

Hardcore Player - has NO life other than DDO. Coincides with someon thats Single, has no Children, no job (possibly in-between jobs).

[FranOhmsford]

Casual Player - has a complete life outside of DDO. Coincides with Married with children, works full time (possibly 2nd job)..

Normal Player - has a partial life outside of DDO. Coincides with a Girl/Boyfriend, no Children, works occasionally (possibly part-time).

Hardcore Player - has NO life other than DDO. Coincides with someon thats Single, has no Children, no job (possibly in-between jobs).

Unnecessarily antagonistic definitions.

Why is it that you think those without lives have to be Hardcore Players exactly?

I have NO Life and I can guarantee you that not one person on these forums would even think about classifying me as a Hardcore player {well maybe Teh Troll would for the lols}.


Oh and there's plenty of Hardcore Players with 40+ hr a week jobs going by these forums over the years.
Some of the most Hardcore Players I've come across in game are Students!

Stop trying to define the indefinable - Every one of us is Unique with our own reasons and wants!

[salmag]

While my post was tongue in cheek, I'll play. Response in highlights...


Unnecessarily antagonistic definitions.

Why is it that you think those without lives have to be Hardcore Players exactly?

I have NO Life and I can guarantee you that not one person on these forums would even think about classifying me as a Hardcore player {well maybe Teh Troll would for the lols}.

I didn't say "NO Life" I said, "NO life outside of DDO"

Oh and there's plenty of Hardcore Players with 40+ hr a week jobs going by these forums over the years.
Some of the most Hardcore Players I've come across in game are Students!

Because you have the best gear and know all the quests does not make you "hardcore." In my opinion, it is based on time spent playing the game. If you have a JOB and cannot dedicate 15+ hours a day to DDO then you are NOT hardcore (in my opinion). You are more or less Normal or Casual.
Students more or less fit the definition of "hardcore"

Stop trying to define the indefinable - Every one of us is Unique with our own reasons and wants!

Yes, we are all unique, and coincidentally, undefinable.

If you took offense, I apologize.

btw, I consider myself "Normal leaning hard into Casual" since I have a fiance, a 60+ hour a week job, and 4 children. When I get married (in 1 1/2 years), I will be full on Casual. Yeah (I think)

[AtomicMew]

Isn't this a way of saying : hey i'm uber i've made 100K tp by selling loot ?


Great thread, anyways, much /popcorn

No? I clearly stated that I am only a normal player.

[patang01]

I hear a lot of talk about what player types like, want, and need but im not sure everyone agrees on definitions.

Id like to hear responses and maybe we can come to a concensus.

To me:
Casual player, plays to pass time. No real goals. Plays up to4 hours a week. Isnt concerned so much about gear, exp, builds. Just likes to play the game and maybe only plays with RL normal and hardcore plyers. Mostly runs normal mode. Rarely raids.

Normal player. Plays 5 to 15 hours a week. Has some goals. Knows gear, builds, and exp and factors that into play. Mostly runs EH with some normal and elite to include epics. Does raid mostly on hard. This is the majority of the user base.

Hardcore. Plays 15+ hours a week. Has clearly defined goals. Detailed knowledge of gear, builds, exp, etc. Mostly runs elite to include epic and includes raids. Needs a challenge. This group is 10% of the player base and is the indicator group as to where the game is heading. A health of the game indicator group.

Seems a little bit to rigid. I can play 3-4 hours every night and stil fall in the causal mold and other times spend a weekend with some very specific goals min mind. I run everything from EN to EE and most raids that pop up.

Personally I prefer a much better model based less on mechanics (like gear and stuff) and more one of personal perception.

Casual players don't consider themselves gamers per say - this have nothing to do with skills, gear or whatever. Casual gamers are motivated by entertainment. You see a lot of casual gamers on smart devices - to a casual gamer the idea is to burn some time, how that's done is irrelevant. A casual gamer don't really apply the logic of time to get something done as much as being rewarded for the time. So spending money to be rewarded isn't entirely impossible, It's not about status, just perception of goal.

Gamers are genuinely interested in games - some specific genres or just anything in average. They know the terminology, how things works and absorb and perhaps even use it. They simply don't see gaming as a blood sport or even a competition. At least not on a almost athletic level. It's either a social or very personal experience. You'll find even really good gamers in this mold or even people who spends lots of times playing games. Kinda like you'd find someone watching lots of sports, but don't really know all the details, all the statistics and are not athlete.

Then you have diehard gamers. Diehard gamers are defined by the need to have a competitive edge - to defeat or complete everything on has hard difficulty as possible. Diehard knows the details, the mechanics and know both how to exploit the mechanics on a almost mathematical level. A diehard gamer is not defined by how much he or she playes a game but how knee deep in the actual foundation of a game. That's a person who consider the goal and challenge to get there the reward as suppose to a gamer who will get there eventually and don't meticulously plan the journey there. A casual player would simply buy that edge if it felt like the easiest way to obtain the goals.

So I see casual as someone motivated by time and entertainment, that don't consider games as a particular interest but more as a leisure, no different from going and shopping at the mall or watching something on TV.
Gamers like games, whatever that genre or specific game is, they're skilled or not skilled and have no problem learning but their main focus is not a competitive edge, but more a journey type deal. Diehards are in it for the status, the gravy, 'to beat' the system or opponent. To diehard gamers it's not so much the journey as it is about being best, and being first.

[patang01]

Casual Player - has a complete life outside of DDO. Coincides with Married with children, works full time (possibly 2nd job)..

Normal Player - has a partial life outside of DDO. Coincides with a Girl/Boyfriend, no Children, works occasionally (possibly part-time).

Hardcore Player - has NO life other than DDO. Coincides with someon thats Single, has no Children, no job (possibly in-between jobs).

Nope

I don't think that fit most gamers I know of or myself. I have a perfectly fine life outside DDO, married with children and work. Yet skillwise I would consider myself in the upper 80's of most games I like and play. Heck I'm within the 5% and less in a game like World of Tanks (based purely on stats of course comparing all players in the game) yet wouldn't consider myself diehard in any way shape and form. Time spent is just to simplistic or the idea it's a good measurement on social behavior.