Why? Can someone explain this in a proper manner to me?

[Blackheartox]

This will be interesting thread to some people, in fact the whole deal got me totaly confused as to that i have no idea how turbine does things.
Might be wall of text incoming, so read only if you want to see a simple story of a disapointed player.

First of all, no this is not a cheats cryout thread, this is a thread where someone who got acused for cheats got banned even tho he never did that.
3 days ago, during a afk session while working around house, i go back to my pc to happily check what is going on while i was planing to do daily xp quests to find myself loged out.
Ok, no big deal, i most probably got disconected so i try to reconnect, type pass and everything.
Then it hits me, a weird message that i got my account banned.
How? Why?
First thing that comes to mind is i got reported for rudeness as i usualy trash talk people in wrong builds and dont like people who contribute nothing.
So i go to mail to make sure i got banned for that.
I mean it would be totaly reasonable if i got a couple days ban for that, but no i find a pleasant surprise in my mail.
I got banned for 14 days due to the acusation of duplication.

Ok, i first scratch my head, go get a drink, then i reread it, yea duplication.
Hmm, i wonder how, when and why?
Ok, i might have misread this whole thing, i reread again..
Nope same thing, im not dreaming, not a illusion, not a fata morgana.
Got banned for item exploit.

Ok, all cool and nice, but i try to recolect if i ever did that.
Nope, not even a single time as im a tru****l hater of current cheats, or you could say i put to much effort in my character to even attempt to do this as i was scared of a ban.
Now i try to recollect what and where i could do to get this.
If you know me on forums you probably have the idea that i always blame the player first and try to defend turbine a bit.

Which i promise i wont do from now on, if i come back that is.

But i try to recollect and remember if there was a single thing i could have done to get this ban.
All stacks of cards that i have was from mass traded during even and alt accounts /nothing bannable, right?
All my ing i have gotten off astral shard or traded with people /not bannable, right?
So all that comes to mind is that the items that i legitely got, ammased to a ammount that some gm found impopriate for a player that plays the game for over 6 years and traded almost everthing he had for those items /yes i traded many ee and ranom items and friend did many inter server card trades/ is that i got reported for trading with someone who cheated to get extra items?
Do i get a ban if i trade with someone who did that?
Or whatever the reason is i got this pointles ban.
Il repeat once again, if i got banned for being rude that would make sense, but to be banned for something i apsolutely DID NOT do is disrespectful toward me as a old time player.
I have tried to appeal, but i was full of anger and instead of actualy writing a proper appeal i might have overreacted and said many things i shouldnt had. And from my experience so far account support has apsoulely not helped me at all, even tho i lost a epic heart and several epic items after tring, nothing beside in game gm has helped me.
Outside of game sources have the least ammount of efficiency in my case.

Sorry for the whole wall of text, but i hope you guys realize how demotivating it is to be banned for something you did not do, never planned to do, nor will do. Being punished for a crime you did not commit because some random that doesnt like you reported you and a gm decided you dont have a proper ammount of some item like for example sh crypt scarabs after achieving triple completionist.
This is way beyond rude toward me as a player, as a person, and as a ddo- supporter.
I hope sincerely you guys from turbine will actualy do proper measures to actualy ban people who did commit cheating and not players who did proper trades for items they have.

No more mr overpaladin on forums to defend turbine, as you have done me wrong and hear my word, i will never forgive you if i find a single item deleted from my invetory.
Even the fact that i have this ban is way beyond rude and improper and i hope someone actualy reads this from your staff and pulls of this pointles ban.
Cheers to all who had patience to read this.
Am i the only one who got reported without actualy deserving the ban?
I will for now look at this ban as a rudeness report as i got reported by someone who i probably offended.
Rant off

To add last thing, i posted only so that people take care as it seems you can get banned without cheating.
Personaly im enjoying single player games and giving other mmos a try.

[Ivan_Milic]

You probably are not the first, but I bet one of your friends duped something and passed you the ing.

[Khatzhas]

I really suggest that you edit out most of your post and take it up with Account support.

Posting details of disciplinary actions on the forums is against the terms, and even the mods can't help you to resolve this other than telling you who to talk to.

[Powskier]

they must have found some dirt in your inventory.14 day may be proper response in their eyes;dont dupers get permaban?

[Blackheartox]

they must have found some dirt in your inventory.14 day may be proper response in their eyes;dont dupers get permaban?

Thing is if i buy a stack of 100 large dev scales from astral shard for a cheap ammount of astrals, that doesnt make me a cheater but a buyer.
To get a ban for buying things, seems just i dont know. I have no words for that.
I have no idea how i as player should track if a item was replicated or not, so i have no way to protect myself against a possible ban. Should i had stoped looking at astral and regular ahouse til they "one day" ban all people and we get a safe land to play in?

[Demarill]

did you do a substantial amount of trading with 1 specific person? maybe they duped stuff and Turbine incorectly concluded it was a friend sharing their gains with you or that it was an alt of yours passing goods on to the main

[Blackheartox]

did you do a substantial amount of trading with 1 specific person? maybe they duped stuff and Turbine incorectly concluded it was a friend sharing their gains with you or that it was an alt of yours passing goods on to the main

No, traded with many people from different servers for cards/bought some mats from astral shard & bought some mats from trade channels.
Never 1 person for many gains, in all honesty after getting this ban i feel sad that i didnt actualy join all that cheating, as it seems real cheaters wont be caught.
Makes total sense, doesnt it?

[viktorserak]

did you do a substantial amount of trading with 1 specific person? maybe they duped stuff and Turbine incorectly concluded it was a friend sharing their gains with you or that it was an alt of yours passing goods on to the main

Trading with friend (even if he is duping) wont get you banned. Getting something /rare/ for nothing doesnt get you banned. Cheating gets you banned.

Sadly, Overvaan is correct - we as players have no way to verify if some item is duped or not (aside from the fake not-working auguments, to be exact, which is a whole different story). I bought 4 cards IX and X in totall during the event. Were they duped? I honestly dont know. I cant know. Prices varied and I am very sure that at least SOME of them were legit. But I may be wrong.

I know Vaan from cannith. He is the kind of guy that is really deep sinked into the game and I have no doubts about him being capable of having hundreds legit rare ings (well, not Meteoric star ruby rare, but LDS, scales and stuff rare).

I noticed some people from cannithtrade went missing. Hope turbine isnt going all knight templar on everyone with a bigger stack of something. Would get me banned as well and I dont dupe - I just played pretty intensively past few years :-/

That said, I feel you pain Vaan

[Stoner81]

I wondered why I hadn't seen you online for a while and man this stinks :( hope you get things sorted out dude :)


I got banned for 14 days due to the accusation of duplication.

So it's a case of guilty until proven innocent now is it by Turbine? Accusing somebody of duping is a far cry from proving it.

Stoner81.

[Gempoult]

No, traded with many people from different servers for cards/bought some mats from astral shard & bought some mats from trade channels.
Never 1 person for many gains, in all honesty after getting this ban i feel sad that i didnt actualy join all that cheating, as it seems real cheaters wont be caught.
Makes total sense, doesnt it?

Does it say "duplication" specifically for your ban or it says "item exploit"? Because as far as I know most recent dupers that got caught (the ones with the Otto's boxes) got either 90 day or permanent ban, people with the 14 days bans got them for other "things". Do you have a druid/monk splash that likes to throw things maybe?

[Blackheartox]

Does it say "duplication" specifically for your ban or it says "item exploit"? Because as far as I know most recent dupers that got caught (the ones with the Otto's boxes) got either 90 day or permanent ban, people with the 14 days bans got them for other "things". Do you have a druid/monk splash that likes to throw things maybe?

Nope lv 27 cetus thingy, was bored from it, doing no sort of cheating and have no idea if you can do any cheats
(i know how to bug out that druid throw thing but whats the point? No challenge in ees with random cheats)
but maybe using esos is considerd blashphemy toward the game and a cheat in itself (no idea), wanted to tr out of it but lack of sagas kinda killed my friends and my will to do daily valor runs.
Just before ban we decided to do a run of random ees, for fast commedations .
I alrdy had a build set up, a 12 ranger 6 monk 2 palie dual celestia for 2nd bf life.
But.. You read what happend.
Left me confused as id be happy to know what i did to get this, all i can see is that "someone" reported me, a gm checkd my bags,
saw somethign he didnt like and pushed the big red button.
Well even tho im disapointed in the way turbine does things, i can say im happy i have time to play all those nice games that gatherd over the years.
Child of light, stick of truth, some castlevania games, some of the batmans, havent seen a proper strategy lately.
Anyone can suggest me a list of nice new/semi - new games?
I got plenty free time now as i basicaly spent most of my day in ddo.
Although i tried some mmos over the weekend, and tbh once you play 1 for years its rly hard to get used to anything else.
I waited to post my issue for several day as i needed time to cool off, i have been realy realy angry over the weekend.

[Eth]

Anyone can suggest me a list of nice new/semi - new games?

Dark Souls 2 just came out.
Played the first one last year when I took a longer break from DDO.
Haven't played DS2 yet, but looks very similar to DS1 which is a good thing. I'll try it soon(tm).

[Avenging_Angel]

Why do you ask us and not them? Discussing disciplinary actions on open forums is usually a bad idea.

[slarden]

I am really sorry to hear this. I know of one other person that was banned and said they never duped anything, but did buy timer bypasses, ingots, scales, etc. from AH and ASAH. He said he never had infractions and never duped - I believe him.

I also know of someone that traded for an xpac code last summer and had their account suspended LAST WEEK because the money was refunded which really confused me. It's been almost a year. They were able to get their account back by paying Turbine a fee - but were told if it happened again the account would not be removed from suspension. That really sheds new light on trading for point codes, etc.

[Flavilandile]

You should try to contact Cordovan... and/or account support.

If your story is true you were caught in a sweep for a known exploit just because of where you were in game being idle.

[Kalimah]

Why do you ask us and not them? Discussing disciplinary actions on open forums is usually a bad idea.

Hard to agree with that when he's already banned.

I sure as hell hope they arent going to start banning folks who have bought or traded for items that may be banned. Its not like there is a big banner on teh damned description that says "Heads up you are dealing in duplicated merchandise".

Booo.

[Vicania]

Why do you ask us and not them? Discussing disciplinary actions on open forums is usually a bad idea.


Ask how ? Ask who ? GM in game when you are banned ? Its really hard to contact "them" in such case. Not to mention its close to impossible to contact when you are not a VIP but its a diffrent story. And its even harder to get proper response for simple question "why".
Another thing. Everyone should know that you can be banned for nothing.

[Noctus]

a proper strategy lately.


Europa Universalis 4 and Crusader Kings 2 are my two current favorites.

[Capricorpus]

Based on both this and stuff that we've experienced in the past, they obviously don't have a proper way to track who's doing what. It seems that, in many cases, what they're doing is seeing someone with a lot of item x and convicting on suspicion.

Yes, there are people that exploit, and yes, they deserve to pay the price if they get caught, but banning everyone who may or may not be associated with said exploiters while not even bothering to fix the exploits is counter-intuitive.

Unfortunately, all the people claiming that Customer Service will help are wrong. Given the lack of a tracking mechanism, they can't assume Over didn't exploit even if he really didn't. If calling Turbine for a few minutes magically removed bans, anyone who got banned for any non verifiable reason would be back and people would feel much more safe exploiting.

With that being said, Over didn't cheat, and it's sad that someone decided he deserves to feel the "Extreme Prejudice" that he doesn't deserve.

Hopefully, after the Great Banhammer of Friday, Turbine is finally ready to stop focusing on the addicts and start focusing on the drug.

[Missing_Minds]

Best guess...

Your trades resulted with you getting counterfeit items.
Turbine can tell which items are dupped and which ones are not. ((Those of us who have been around for a long time remember the dupping ban and removal of items back when the level cap was... 14 I think it was. black/blue/white dragon scales and neumonic pots for the most part)

Turbine used a script to auto find such items, and any players found with those probably got a scriptted ban vs actually checking history to see how such came into your possession. ((guess which one takes more time/money to do after they've already cut back on CS and developers for the game.))
Esp as there is no in game method for inter server trades so they can't track them. (this is a key line here. You may or may not have done so but turbine has no way to know.)

Assuming you are being truthful (remember your previous stance of blame the player), that sucks.

[Cardtrick]

Unfortunately, all the people claiming that Customer Service will help are wrong. Given the lack of a tracking mechanism, they can't assume Over didn't exploit even if he really didn't. If calling Turbine for a few minutes magically removed bans, anyone who got banned for any non verifiable reason would be back and people would feel much more safe exploiting.

I would like to think that they at least track auctionhouse and ASAH sales. It would be trivially easy to implement a logging feature for purchases. I've done it dozens of times in various pieces of software; any developer could. I really can't imagine what would be different about this game that would prevent that from being possible. There's already a database and there can't be any significant lag impact -- purchases are relatively infrequent and the amount of data that has to be moved is small.

If someone buys astral shards from turbine and then purchases a stack of 20 scales for 300 shards on the ASAH, then in my mind they have done absolutely nothing wrong. There is no way, whatsoever, for them to know whether those scales were obtained legitimately or not. They've paid money and used methods provided by -- and encouraged by -- Turbine to obtain un-bound items. Turbine even takes a cut.

So I hope very much that these sorts of transactions are logged somewhere and the GMs can check for any purchases before condemning someone based on having a stack of an unbound item that was purchased using Turbine-provided currency on a Turbine-provided service.

[Arnez]

Could someone (read one of the recent posts that suggest "Everyone Turn in suspected exploiters") have a grudge against you from a recent raid?

In this era of Turbine McCarthy-ism this is going to get interesting from a server population point of view.

[stoerm]

Edit: never mind. looks like you tried to appeal.

And ... IBTL / deletion.

[HAL]

I have tried to appeal, but i was full of anger and instead of actualy writing a proper appeal i might have overreacted and said many things i shouldnt had. And from my experience so far account support has apsoulely not helped me at all, even tho i lost a epic heart and several epic items after tring, nothing beside in game gm has helped me.

First, sorry to hear you were banned if you did nothing.

Second, you really shouldn't post details here as people have said.

Third, if you tried to appeal but you know you were rude, appeal again but apologize for the first try. I have heard that appeals can work if you are truly innocent. I can understand being upset about being punished for something you didn't do, but you have to give the system a chance. Every day people are arrested for crimes they didn't commit and they end up being exonerated. Every punishment system is only human, they make mistakes.

But finally, from your own words it does sound like you might have taken a bit too much advantage of things being duped. Buying 100 large dev scales at a time for cheap might not make you a duper, but it is also wrong to take advantage of exploits so maybe that's why you got the 14 day instead of the 90 or perma as people have mentioned.

Good luck.

[hp1055cm]

First of all, no this is not a cheats cryout thread, this is a thread where someone who got acused for cheats got banned even tho he never did that.

Disclaimer: I do not know the OP and admit I do not know the details of this event. What follows is merely my opinion.


I find it very unlikely that you got a 14 day ban for doing nothing as you would have us believe.
Certainly you did something questionable but your version of events has a decided lack of admission to such activity. I don't find it difficult to believe that someone who would use an exploit would also lie about it.
I don't know whether the ban was warranted, but dumping on the DDO staff on the forums is a pretty lame tactic.

Also, the spelling and grammar in your post is atrocious - you might do better to make use of the included spell check.

[mobrien316]

Regarding trades...

If you two large devil scales for 200,000 pp, that seems within the realm of possibility.

If you bought a stack of 200 for 200,000 pp, you should realize something is up. If it seems too good to be true it probably is. Someone who gets banned for that probably deserves it.


On the other hand, there's a lot of gray area in the middle of those two extremes. If someone bought a couple of large devil scales for 100,000 pp, that would be a fantastically great deal on Thelanis. Does that mean they were duped? Perhaps, but not necessarily. If they were in fact duped, the buyer shouldn't be banned because it wasn't such a fantastically great deal that he or she should have known something was up.

[Eth]

I find it very unlikely that you got a 14 day ban for doing nothing as you would have us believe.

So you are saying it's unlikely that people at turbine make mistakes? I think they proven often enough they do so quite regularly.
Thanks for the laugh though.

[Ivan_Milic]

So people suggest that buying stuff from auction at low price is bannable?
You never bought anything for low price, or you never missed a zero and sold an item thats worth 10x more?
I didnt know about duping bug during mabar, I saw cheap lds and bought it, so its ok to ban me?
Just the other day I bought major pot for 3k from auction, guess I deserve a ban.
Or maybe someone didnt know how much it is worth.

[merridyan]

Regarding trades...

If you two large devil scales for 200,000 pp, that seems within the realm of possibility.

If you bought a stack of 200 for 200,000 pp, you should realize something is up. If it seems too good to be true it probably is. Someone who gets banned for that probably deserves it.


On the other hand, there's a lot of gray area in the middle of those two extremes. If someone bought a couple of large devil scales for 100,000 pp, that would be a fantastically great deal on Thelanis. Does that mean they were duped? Perhaps, but not necessarily. If they were in fact duped, the buyer shouldn't be banned because it wasn't such a fantastically great deal that he or she should have known something was up.

Really? With the amount of duping that went on the value of everything has gone down, and your saying that if I don't pay what the price was before the duping then I should be banned? I bet the dupers like you, more profit for them.

[Ovrad]

I find it very unlikely that you got a 14 day ban for doing nothing as you would have us believe.

Guess you weren't around during the first Mabar festival...

[HAL]

Really? With the amount of duping that went on the value of everything has gone down, and your saying that if I don't pay what the price was before the duping then I should be banned? I bet the dupers like you, more profit for them.

As he said, there is a difference between buying one or two scales at a really low price and buying 100 scales in one purchase for a low price. In the first case you don't know the price is low from duping. In the second case that is most certainly duping.

[Kalimah]

The idea that someone should be banned because they buy something from the auction house at a rate that you may think is too low is completely ludicrous. If you support that idea you are being ridiculous as well.

[twigzz]

The idea that someone should be banned because they buy something from the auction house at a rate that you may think is too low is completely ludicrous. If you support that idea you are being ridiculous as well.

Totally agree! I can't believe some of these people.


Only the dupers deserve to be banned, not people that found/got good deals..

[HAL]

Just like in the Real World it is illegal to have stolen goods. How do you know they are stolen? Because they are "too good to be true". Its not a difficult concept.

[merridyan]

Just like in the Real World it is illegal to have stolen goods. How do you know they are stolen? Because they are "too good to be true". Its not a difficult concept.

But when the value of everything has gone down because of this, does that mean I need to stop buying? Maybe we can get Turbine to mark all duped stuff with a little symbol so we know? ;)

Lets say I wanted to trade my "XXX uber item" and person 1 offers me 20 shadow scales, and person 2 offers me 200, should I just take person ones offer?

What if I knew for a fact that person 1 duped, but no idea about person 2? which offer should I take (maybe they bought off the AH? Or raided a lot)?

[Maelphistez]

So, before this gets cubed...

I suspect that despite your intentions / reasons, you were spotted behaving in a manner consistent with a known exploit (no, I will not go into it via PMs or on the forums). Having been "noticed", a GM pawed through your inventory and found "suspicious" numbers of exploitable items. Since you were not observed actively performing an exploit, Turbine decided to give you the 14-day "warning" ban. If you had been observed in an exploit, you would have likely received the 90-day or permanent ban.

If you did noting, appeal to Turbine. That's about the extent of what you can do. The ToS is pretty clear that Turbine has the right to levy bans at their whim.

[Ivan_Milic]

Just like in the Real World it is illegal to have stolen goods. How do you know they are stolen? Because they are "too good to be true". Its not a difficult concept.

Just like in real world people often dont know how much some things are worth, like people selling paintings and other rare stuff worth a million for few bucks.

[pHo3nix]

As he said, there is a difference between buying one or two scales at a really low price and buying 100 scales in one purchase for a low price. In the first case you don't know the price is low from duping. In the second case that is most certainly duping.

So buying 2 duped scales at 200k plat is perfectly fine but buying 100 duped scales for 200k plat is not? If they are duped they are duped, why would it matter if they are 2 or 100? Either you punish buyers or you don't; punishing people only on your perception on how much things are worth would be a pretty flawed method.

@Overvaan: i'm sorry you were banned Ov, hope you can solve this without too much hassle.

[HAL]

But when the value of everything has gone down because of this, does that mean I need to stop buying? Maybe we can get Turbine to mark all duped stuff with a little symbol so we know? ;)

Lets say I wanted to trade my "XXX uber item" and person 1 offers me 20 shadow scales, and person 2 offers me 200, should I just take person ones offer?

What if I knew for a fact that person 1 duped, but no idea about person 2? which offer should I take (maybe they bought off the AH? Or raided a lot)?

Is it possible that someone did the grind for 100 large dev scales? Sure. Is that person going to sell all 100 in one stack for a lot lower than normal? I don't think so. A person sells a huge stack of a really rare ingredient for a low price because they have thousands or can make thousands.

I don't know the drop rate of shadow scales (haven't done the grind for them) but if they are similar to lg dev scales I would definitely be suspicious of someone wanting to trade me 200 of them.

[Krelar]

I don't know the drop rate of shadow scales (haven't done the grind for them) but if they are similar to lg dev scales I would definitely be suspicious of someone wanting to trade me 200 of them.

They drop a lot more than large devil scales. I think I get around a half dozen on a normal run. I assume hard and elite drop significantly more.

[HAL]

They drop a lot more than large devil scales. I think I get around a half dozen on a normal run. I assume hard and elite drop significantly more.

Then maybe someone who traded for 200 wouldn't have to worry about it :)

[gordgray]

I really suggest that you edit out most of your post and take it up with Account support.

Why DDO/WB is not up front and yes the tos rules do state but DDO/WB are not fallowing there own rules.


Posting details of disciplinary actions on the forums is against the terms, and even the mods can't help you to resolve this other than telling you who to talk to.

But it gives the player base something to go on other then rumors or no answer


they must have found some dirt in your inventory.14 day may be proper response in their eyes;dont dupers get permaban?

It should of been perm but with the decline of DDO/WB thy cant afford to do that to the base players.

[Tilomere]

Thing is if i buy a stack of 100 large dev scales from astral shard for a cheap ammount of astrals, that doesnt make me a cheater but a buyer.

I have no idea how i as player should track if a item was replicated or not, so i have no way to protect myself against a possible ban.

Buying large amounts of items you know to be duped since they are otherwise too cheap to gain an advantage over other players makes one a cheater. Here's the definition for you:

cheat
CH?t/Submit
verb
1.
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.

That TWF Celestia build would have rocked btw.

[Lonnbeimnech]

they must have found some dirt in your inventory.14 day may be proper response in their eyes;dont dupers get permaban?

Pretty sure this guy still plays.
http://i.gyazo.com/99ae97ab92dcab7a2a022c880f3789ad.png
http://i.gyazo.com/42dfac6b7deefb57b505e53e90cde741.png

No, it's not my pics.

[Seikojin]

Just get support involved and call it a day. Bummer it happened on the weekend.

I can imagine what they can and could do, so meh. In the end you may be out some items. Imagine if they just wiped all dupe item id's? You would be out the items and the shards. :D

[viktorserak]

Is it possible that someone did the grind for 100 large dev scales? Sure. Is that person going to sell all 100 in one stack for a lot lower than normal? I don't think so.



That is exactly the problem.

You dont THINK so.

Its your opinion. that this cannot happen.

When I was leaving DDO some year or so ago, not expecting to return (Yes, I obviously did and I have gaming addiction, yes, no need to rub that one in), I sold most of my stuff via AH. I did sold by stacks of 50 as far as Shroud raiding mats go and I was selling them cheap. None of those were duped - I was leaving the game and decided to make someone happy.

So, You were wrong. There obviously are people (me) who are selling sich a high stacks for a lot lower then normal. You were wrong.

I absolutely agree that those are rare buys (I dont expect myself to do it again, mostly cause I dont have so much larrges anymore and I dont want to leave again), but they do happen. I dont believe I am the only person in the history of DDO who would "give away" his riches when leaving the game.

For that reason, buyer must not be held responsible for the origin of the goods he is buying. After all, that is not the case even in RL. The one responsible is seller.

[mobrien316]

Really? With the amount of duping that went on the value of everything has gone down, and your saying that if I don't pay what the price was before the duping then I should be banned? I bet the dupers like you, more profit for them.

Really? That's what you got out of my post?

It's fairly easy at times to see that items offered for sale are duped. For example, if someone is offering a stack of 100 Large Devil Scales for 100,000, and that is about .5% or so of the usual price, it can be reasonably expected that the seller duped the scales.

It's also fairly easy at times to see that an item is unlikely to have been duped. If you see one large devil scale for 200,000 pp, it's safe to assume it hasn't been duped and you won't be in trouble for buying it.

I also mentioned there is a large gray area between the two extremes. A large devil scale on Thelanis for 100,000 is a low price, but "probably" not so low that you would have to know it had been duped.

Hopefully, Turbine will try to use objective reasonableness when handing out bans. Someone who buys a stack of 100 for less than the price of a single scale should reasonably know they are buying duped goods. We can all use common sense.

[mobrien316]

That is exactly the problem.

You dont THINK so.

Its your opinion. that this cannot happen.

When I was leaving DDO some year or so ago, not expecting to return (Yes, I obviously did and I have gaming addiction, yes, no need to rub that one in), I sold most of my stuff via AH. I did sold by stacks of 50 as far as Shroud raiding mats go and I was selling them cheap. None of those were duped - I was leaving the game and decided to make someone happy.

So, You were wrong. There obviously are people (me) who are selling sich a high stacks for a lot lower then normal. You were wrong.

I absolutely agree that those are rare buys (I dont expect myself to do it again, mostly cause I dont have so much larrges anymore and I dont want to leave again), but they do happen. I dont believe I am the only person in the history of DDO who would "give away" his riches when leaving the game.

For that reason, buyer must not be held responsible for the origin of the goods he is buying. After all, that is not the case even in RL. The one responsible is seller.

Again, you can use common sense. Is common sense infallible? Of course not. But usually the simplest solution is the correct one.

If you see someone selling a Rolex watch, normally valued at $5000, for fifty bucks, is it reasonable to assume the person just came into a lot of money and is selling it at a very low price just to be a nice guy? Or is it more reasonable to assume it is either stolen or a counterfeit?

[Powskier]

Pretty sure this guy still plays.
http://i.gyazo.com/99ae97ab92dcab7a2a022c880f3789ad.png
http://i.gyazo.com/42dfac6b7deefb57b505e53e90cde741.png

No, it's not my pics.

oh good one; i've been wanting to see a "funny" inventory list;isnt there a Special Hell for these folks?

[viktorserak]

Again, you can use common sense. Is common sense infallible? Of course not. But usually the simplest solution is the correct one.

If you see someone selling a Rolex watch, normally valued at $5000, for fifty bucks, is it reasonable to assume the person just came into a lot of money and is selling it at a very low price just to be a nice guy? Or is it more reasonable to assume it is either stolen or a counterfeit?

You are talking about propability here.

In other words, statistics.

As my math teacher used to say: Statistics are completely irrelevant a single instance scenario. Because event the black swan has to pop-up somewhere.

So, as you know very well, said person can be both (I was just a nice guy). Thus, it is just a question of opinion. And opinion are flawed.

[Teh_Troll]

This would not be the first time somebody who did nothing wrong got banned.

Mabar anyone?

[Missing_Minds]

You are talking about propability here.
Actually what we have here is two people on a citizens brigade pointing fingers in a meaningless debate that isn't even answering the question posed.


This would not be the first time somebody who did nothing wrong got banned.
Mabar anyone?
Mabaned here. As was Mr. Cow and several others at the time.

Hence why I answered as I did.

[Powskier]

hope one was the person ,I caught spammin the levers ,in the Mabar Raid. Player was standing at the lever pulling as fast as possable;not responding to tells to stop it.F yea i reported the spammer.I believe a group of players was doing this lever overpull ,to disadvantage other players,and/or didnt like the mabar event?All I know is some runs there was way to many spawns,and i did catch someone doin it.

[Kalimah]

Just like in real world people often dont know how much some things are worth, like people selling paintings and other rare stuff worth a million for few bucks.

These arguments are bunk. This is not the real world. This is a game world created and maintained by this software company. They hold the cards to police their markets how they please. But, if it is expected that people not buy things on game provided/policed auction houses if they suspect the price could be suspect then I'm sorry but that is just not a realistic expectation.

It is a totally different ballgame "in the real world" as the software company doesnt control every aspect of each transaction. If there is a problem with posting 100 scales for 10 plat then it is up to the AUCTION HOUSE to stop it. Not expect us to just say hey....they may be too good of a deal to be true.

And honestly, if people are being banned for purchases on the Auction House I would be both very surprised and VERY disappointed.

[Forzah]

That is exactly the problem.

You dont THINK so.

Its your opinion. that this cannot happen.

When I was leaving DDO some year or so ago, not expecting to return (Yes, I obviously did and I have gaming addiction, yes, no need to rub that one in), I sold most of my stuff via AH. I did sold by stacks of 50 as far as Shroud raiding mats go and I was selling them cheap. None of those were duped - I was leaving the game and decided to make someone happy.

So, You were wrong. There obviously are people (me) who are selling sich a high stacks for a lot lower then normal. You were wrong.

I absolutely agree that those are rare buys (I dont expect myself to do it again, mostly cause I dont have so much larrges anymore and I dont want to leave again), but they do happen. I dont believe I am the only person in the history of DDO who would "give away" his riches when leaving the game.

For that reason, buyer must not be held responsible for the origin of the goods he is buying. After all, that is not the case even in RL. The one responsible is seller.

It can happen, but has a probability of almost 0. That means that you are buying duped goods with a probability of almost 1. If you are almost 100% sure that you are buying stolen goods, you do have a responsibility.

[mobrien316]

You are talking about propability here.

In other words, statistics.

As my math teacher used to say: Statistics are completely irrelevant a single instance scenario. Because event the black swan has to pop-up somewhere.

So, as you know very well, said person can be both (I was just a nice guy). Thus, it is just a question of opinion. And opinion are flawed.

I'm talking about common sense from the perspective of a potential buyer. If you see something that looks too good to be true, it likely is. If you buy it anyway because you think it might be some nice guy who ran a ton of raids and is now selling piles of normally-expensive mats for a song, you should be willing to live with a ban if it happens, because the far more likely reason those mats are available for such a price is duping.

[Seikojin]

Pretty sure this guy still plays.
http://i.gyazo.com/99ae97ab92dcab7a2a022c880f3789ad.png
http://i.gyazo.com/42dfac6b7deefb57b505e53e90cde741.png

No, it's not my pics.

So a lama shot during a dev event. Woo. :D

I mean would you prefer the scales and things you made with them disappear, or get a 14 day break?

[Brendael]

I'm talking about common sense from the perspective of a potential buyer. If you see something that looks too good to be true, it likely is. If you buy it anyway because you think it might be some nice guy who ran a ton of raids and is now selling piles of normally-expensive mats for a song, you should be willing to live with a ban if it happens, because the far more likely reason those mats are available for such a price is duping.

What a crock.

I play the auction house quite often and if you get lucky you can often buy items for 50k-100k plat and then sell them off later for almost ten times that.

There are always going to be people who sell legitimate items for a song, either out of ignorance or kindness.

Buying cheap items on the DDO AH isn't like buying a blood splattered Rolex for fifty bucks off some shady looking character outside the pub.

[Teh_Troll]

Pretty sure this guy still plays.
http://i.gyazo.com/99ae97ab92dcab7a2a022c880f3789ad.png
http://i.gyazo.com/42dfac6b7deefb57b505e53e90cde741.png

No, it's not my pics.

I would hate to see this guy at an all you can eat buffet.

[Sloene]

What a crock.

I play the auction house quite often and if you get lucky you can often buy items for 50k-100k plat and then sell them off later for almost ten times that.

There are always going to be people who sell legitimate items for a song, either out of ignorance or kindness.

Buying cheap items on the DDO AH isn't like buying a blood splattered Rolex for fifty bucks off some shady looking character outside the pub.


According to some it's worse.

[Ivan_Milic]

These arguments are bunk. This is not the real world. This is a game world created and maintained by this software company. They hold the cards to police their markets how they please. But, if it is expected that people not buy things on game provided/policed auction houses if they suspect the price could be suspect then I'm sorry but that is just not a realistic expectation.

It is a totally different ballgame "in the real world" as the software company doesnt control every aspect of each transaction. If there is a problem with posting 100 scales for 10 plat then it is up to the AUCTION HOUSE to stop it. Not expect us to just say hey....they may be too good of a deal to be true.

And honestly, if people are being banned for purchases on the Auction House I would be both very surprised and VERY disappointed.

Exactly, it isnt real world, so all comparisons with real world are ****.

[HAL]

For that reason, buyer must not be held responsible for the origin of the goods he is buying. After all, that is not the case even in RL. The one responsible is seller.

And yet in most of the civilized world it is illegal to own stolen property. How does the buyer know it is stolen property? Because it is too cheap to be legitimate usually.

[HAL]

What a crock.

I play the auction house quite often and if you get lucky you can often buy items for 50k-100k plat and then sell them off later for almost ten times that.

There are always going to be people who sell legitimate items for a song, either out of ignorance or kindness.

Buying cheap items on the DDO AH isn't like buying a blood splattered Rolex for fifty bucks off some shady looking character outside the pub.

A stack of 100 legitimate items for a song? I don't think so. And in an environment where you know that duping is going on, even less chance.

[mobrien316]

A stack of 100 legitimate items for a song? I don't think so. And in an environment where you know that duping is going on, even less chance.

This.

It is a straw man argument to say that I'm trying to claim that anyone who gets a good deal at the AH is doing something wrong or stupid. If you are buying a stack of items that would normally cost millions and you are doing for an insignificant amount, you should be able to figure that out for yourself.

[Cordovan]

As always, we do not allow people to discuss their disciplinary actions on our forums, since we are not able to provide details nor confirm/deny any allegations or claims within. Remember that the best way to appeal disciplinary action is through our support system: support.turbine.com. Of course, it's also important that that appeal not be overly rude or insulting (not saying the OP's was, just that the OP raised that as a possibility) if you wish to have the best opportunity to have your appeal addressed to your satisfaction. Closing thread.