I think we need more sources of CoVs....

[HatsuharuZ]

The number of CoVs one gets depends on the level and difficulty of the quest. So, it's better to stay at high levels and farm CoVs in order to get ETR hearts, instead of immediately ETRing after getting the required commendations. And now that there is a crafting system that require CoVs as well, the supply is even tighter, since the amount of farming one can do is a bit limited.

My point is, I'm not happy with how long it takes to get ETR hearts, and I think that there needs to be more sources of commendations, the price of hearts needs to go down, or epic quests need to give more comms.

[Jasparion]

I think Turbine should just stick to their word and make it so that we can earn enough comms running from 20 to 28 by running EH content.

Pretty simple really.

[Blackheartox]

More sources would be fun.
Things like make a extreme challenge for a quest with special rewards.
Imagine, do ee solo and get 30% more cov, do with party full of bards 150% more cov, etc etc, lotsa ideas for challenges, would be fun i mean stuff like that.
Some random daily quests where xp/renown is boosted by 50%.
I can see many possible ways to solve this and that could be fun.

I dont want to have a heart when im 28, but a heart when im 28 while challenging myself on the way to 28 and having more fun at it

[FuzzyDuck81]

Large stacks in the saga end lists would make a big difference alone - having them ONLY being found there initially was the issue... add them to the end lists of pretty much any quest chain from heroic gianthold upwards too i think - then also add in more uses for them & let people decide for themselves whether they want to use them for eTRs or to get cool & interesting gear & upgrades for a specific character - being able to trade them for, say, event & challenge collectables (make it less than you'd get from running the event itself, as the cost of convenience) would be nice too.

[slarden]

I thought that too until I stayed at cap for a few months with my 2 characters and now have gigantic stacks of COVs on both characters.

You should be able to get enough from 20-28 if you run on EE even with xp pots going now.

It seems to me they already made it easier, but yeah it still really sucks for a casual player running on lower difficulties, especially EN.

[RedOrm]

I think Turbine should just stick to their word and make it so that we can earn enough comms running from 20 to 28 by running EH content.

Pretty simple really.

This. This is what they promised then failed to deliver. But I don't expect them to change it anymore, especially with the cap going to 30 soon(tm), meaning you need more quests to hit cap and thus get more cov's while getting there. I may wish they'd own up at least, but I don't expect that to happen either.

Greetz,
Red Orm

[Dandonk]

I agree that the current implementation is very limiting in its scope.

Regarding vcomm grind, which is the only end game atm:

1) Optionals are a waste of time
2) Outdoor areas are a waste of time
3) Challenges are a waste of time
4) In-quests bonuses are a waste of time
5) Saga XP rewards are bad news
6) XP tome does not grant extra comms

This leads to only running a very narrow part of the great and diverse content that DDO has, and undermines one of the new systems Turbine has put in. I think this should be addressed, to open up more content for having relevance for the players doing ETR/ITR.

[Turbosilk]

I think Turbine should just stick to their word and make it so that we can earn enough comms running from 20 to 28 by running EH content.

Pretty simple really.

This is already true. I proved it in the other comms post a few posts below this one.

[Turbosilk]

I thought that too until I stayed at cap for a few months with my 2 characters and now have gigantic stacks of COVs on both characters.

You should be able to get enough from 20-28 if you run on EE even with xp pots going now.

It seems to me they already made it easier, but yeah it still really sucks for a casual player running on lower difficulties, especially EN.

Comms are to be earned not given away. The current implementation is at a good balance. Run EN and you need to run more quests along the way. Run eh and have enough to eTR. Run EE and have tons.

[axel15810]

Comms are to be earned not given away. The current implementation is at a good balance. Run EN and you need to run more quests along the way. Run eh and have enough to eTR. Run EE and have tons.

lol no...if you run all EH you will not have enough to ETR when you reach cap. Not even close.

Just capped my latest toon at 28, running mostly EH and some EE. I have around 2100 CoV. And I didn't farm VoN 3 or Wiz King. I've seen a graph where you can earn enough CoV through leveling but you have to make a strong effort to play the low xp quests and ignore anything and everything that gives XP but doesn't give CoV...like wilderness areas, challenges, sagas rewards, optionals, ect.



We do need a higher CoV drop rate. We should not have to grind out over 2000 CoV once we reach cap, we should be given a reasonable path to earn hearts in game. But Turbine has put its foot down and said no, they obviously want us to pay for hearts. And from the lack of threads on the topic lately it seems the playerbase has largely surrendered the issue.

[Qhualor]

Comms are to be earned not given away. The current implementation is at a good balance. Run EN and you need to run more quests along the way. Run eh and have enough to eTR. Run EE and have tons.

I must have been doing it wrong. I did 3 lives running mostly EH of a variety of content with about a dozen or so EEs, including 1 life literally going up the epic quest list from 20-28 one and done and earned 4300 Comms. I'm pretty sure when people talk about "there's enough Comms" they are referring to high level epics and running the better Comm reward quests. I know for fact "normal" leveling isn't enough.

[Chauncey1]

they should be in the chests rather than offered as an end reward, which can sometimes mean you have to choose between a Legendary Victory and handful of CoV's.

[slarden]

Comms are to be earned not given away. The current implementation is at a good balance. Run EN and you need to run more quests along the way. Run eh and have enough to eTR. Run EE and have tons.

It works great for people like me that run mostly EE. It did even back in December before the changes once I changed from running mostly EH to almost exclusively EE. The people that run mostly EN either gave up on it or left the game so it doesn't much matter now. It's easy to say someone else should have to run almost 4x as many quests to ETR because they are running on a lower difficulty. It's even easier for the person running EN to say "screw this" and find another game if the grind isn't considered reasonable. Considering the casual players that run mostly on EN usually run slower to begin with... I would say you have no clue how extremely long the grind is to them. Basically what you are saying is it works for you and you are glad it doesn't work so well for those running on lower difficulties because they are "casuals". You want to see them grind away. Many people share this attitude.

[Kalimah]

This is already true. I proved it in the other comms post a few posts below this one.

No, you have not proved anything.

[shadowowl]

CoV's as far as I understand where put in to discourage window farming, unfortunately they also discourage slayers/explorers and doing quests on normal/hard. not to mention the first time bonus and streaks also completely unbalance the amount of comms you get from 20-28.
the normal ratio if you do level 20-28 without window farming/explorers and do elite on all quests (using voice/ship buffs when receiving rewards) works fine for multiple epic reincarnations after the first 20-28 getting all your first time bonuses and streak xp out of the way. however there is a huge problem with Iconic tring as you will always get your first time bonus and rarely will make enough CoV's getting 20-28 regardless how you do the quests unless maybe you do all the quests without an xp pot/ship buff or voice xp and then wait till the end to turn all the quests in at once with xp pot/ship/voice so that only effects the CoV's and not the quest xp itself.. Which is another reason why I don't understand why the Iconic hearts cost more in the DDOshop it's just a money grab since they both cost the same with CoV's they should cost the same in the ddoshop (meaning lower the iconic not raise the epic)
perhaps include the first time bonus into the CoV rate that would actually help a lot should be a pretty easy just toggle first time turn in or something.

[Seikojin]

CoV's as far as I understand where put in to discourage window farming, unfortunately they also discourage slayers/explorers and doing quests on normal/hard. not to mention the first time bonus and streaks also completely unbalance the amount of comms you get from 20-28.
the normal ratio if you do level 20-28 without window farming/explorers and do elite on all quests (using voice/ship buffs when receiving rewards) works fine for multiple epic reincarnations after the first 20-28 getting all your first time bonuses and streak xp out of the way. however there is a huge problem with Iconic tring as you will always get your first time bonus and rarely will make enough CoV's getting 20-28 regardless how you do the quests unless maybe you do all the quests without an xp pot/ship buff or voice xp and then wait till the end to turn all the quests in at once with xp pot/ship/voice so that only effects the CoV's and not the quest xp itself.. Which is another reason why I don't understand why the Iconic hearts cost more in the DDOshop it's just a money grab since they both cost the same with CoV's they should cost the same in the ddoshop (meaning lower the iconic not raise the epic)
perhaps include the first time bonus into the CoV rate that would actually help a lot should be a pretty easy just toggle first time turn in or something.

Good point on preventing window farming. I think as an end reward they trump all other rewards. There is plenty of data showing that you get enough coms doing EH on all Epic quests to get most of the way there, so I am not concerned with drop rates in that regard. And U22 should be bringing more and eventually all the quests with epic will get them (or should).

[Lifespawn]

Good point on preventing window farming. I think as an end reward they trump all other rewards. There is plenty of data showing that you get enough coms doing EH on all Epic quests to get most of the way there, so I am not concerned with drop rates in that regard. And U22 should be bringing more and eventually all the quests with epic will get them (or should).


Please point to the data that gets you most of the way there without avoiding any quest that has decent xp.

You have to intentionally avoid any good xp quest any challenges any rare/explorer/slayers and you have to take comms EVERY SINGLE TIME.

[HAL]

I think Turbine should just stick to their word and make it so that we can earn enough comms running from 20 to 28 by running EH content.

Pretty simple really.

If you could get enough CoVs from levels 20-28 by only taking CoVs from quest rewards, that might be just a little too "easy" since they obviously want some people to buy hearts from the store. But it definitely shouldn't take 2-3 times more effort. That is way too much. Maybe one and a half times more effort than a straight 20-28 run.

[Seikojin]

Please point to the data that gets you most of the way there without avoiding any quest that has decent xp.

You have to intentionally avoid any good xp quest any challenges any rare/explorer/slayers and you have to take comms EVERY SINGLE TIME.

There is some talk:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441066-So-should-I-save-my-CoV-s?highlight=4200

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438465-This-Is-Just-To-Say?highlight=4200

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/432126-Best-ways-to-get-100-commendations-of-valor?highlight=4200

Before boosts helped raise the reward:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431810-ATTN-Devs-Compiled-Data-Epic-XP-CoV?highlight=4200

And the dev:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429363-Earning-Hearts-of-Wood-(Second-Life)?p=5152374#post5152374

[LeoLionxxx]

Would defiantly be nice to be able to convert my Commendations of heroism to ones of valor.

It makes so much sense: Epic raids give a CoH, which could be like a large pile of CoVs. Besides, there's not mcuh to do with them after your upgrade your CitW and/or FoT items.

[dontmater]

i thought everyone had stacks of self replicating coms, at least allot seem to have them

[Jasparion]

This is already true. I proved it in the other comms post a few posts below this one.

You havent proved anything. You barely get half way to 4,200 by running Hard content. The only way you could get to 4,200 in a single run from 20 to 28 with EH content is if you deliberately only go to the absolute worst XP dungeons with the highest COVs.

And that is not what we were told. We were told normal runs from 20 to 28 on EH would get us the 4,200.

[Lifespawn]

There is some talk:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441066-So-should-I-save-my-CoV-s?highlight=4200

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438465-This-Is-Just-To-Say?highlight=4200

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/432126-Best-ways-to-get-100-commendations-of-valor?highlight=4200

Before boosts helped raise the reward:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431810-ATTN-Devs-Compiled-Data-Epic-XP-CoV?highlight=4200

And the dev:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429363-Earning-Hearts-of-Wood-(Second-Life)?p=5152374#post5152374


No proof for your side of the story in there just people saying they don't find it a problem running everything on elite and paying tp to get a 50% pot to boost comm grabs.


I've leveled from 20-28 running von 3 wiz king and von 5-6 only once and running 90% of the quests on elite still only jusr broke 3k comms

[Gywiden]

I'm beginning to think it's faster to farm TP for a heart than it is to farm CoVs. That's how I'm getting my first iconic heart anyway--from the TP I got my previous life, plus a little from favor bonuses from running on another server.

[gaffneyks]

To everyone who thinks that the 4200 cov is easy to do..... awesome. Enjoy the game. Please spend money to keep the game going.

I have found the cov grind to be a real negative. I play less and less now. When my VIP is up for renewal in June I am just going to let it expire.

What was stated about 4200 on EH by the Devs is just not true. It was a lie, we all need to face that and stop talking about it. They will never change it.

Yes, You can have my stuff. Not that it matters, everyone on my server just duped what they needed for the Thunder-Forged weapons that came out in they latest update so why would
they want my outdated ****.

[Nayus]

CoVs do need to be taken a good look at but while it's still this way you guys have to understand that XP is no longer the most important thing in Epics, it's Commendations, we play for CoVs and not for XP.

[Turbosilk]

You havent proved anything. You barely get half way to 4,200 by running Hard content. The only way you could get to 4,200 in a single run from 20 to 28 with EH content is if you deliberately only go to the absolute worst XP dungeons with the highest COVs.

And that is not what we were told. We were told normal runs from 20 to 28 on EH would get us the 4,200.

So it is possible. Thanks for confirming.

Answer why you have earned an eTR just by taking the absolute worst COV dungeons with the highest XP? And where is the storm of QQ when you can't level from 1-20 and immediately TR without acquiring tokens at level 20?

When you don't earn something it has no value. If you are going to leave because everything isn't handed to you then this isn't the game for you. Play.....the....game...

[Lifespawn]

So it is possible. Thanks for confirming.

Answer why you have earned an eTR just by taking the absolute worst COV dungeons with the highest XP? And where is the storm of QQ when you can't level from 1-20 and immediately TR without acquiring tokens at level 20?

When you don't earn something it has no value. If you are going to leave because everything isn't handed to you then this isn't the game for you. Play.....the....game...



ya so make sure you die before the end of every dungeon so you don't get that extra 10% xp and also recall out and reenter to lower it some more see it is possible to get the covs and only run eh just run the least xp you can possibly do thats fun right?

[slarden]

So it is possible. Thanks for confirming.

Answer why you have earned an eTR just by taking the absolute worst COV dungeons with the highest XP? And where is the storm of QQ when you can't level from 1-20 and immediately TR without acquiring tokens at level 20?

When you don't earn something it has no value. If you are going to leave because everything isn't handed to you then this isn't the game for you. Play.....the....game...

Your plan is to run wheloon for 14 straight days plus some other quests:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441066-So-should-I-save-my-CoV-s?p=5322965&viewfull=1#post5322965

This is a game and most people don't think it's fun to run wheloon for 14 straight days. The purpose of playing a game is to have fun for most people.

[HAL]

i thought everyone had stacks of self replicating coms, at least allot seem to have them

Only cheaters would have that and luckily not everyone is a cheater.

[Catteras]

So it is possible. Thanks for confirming.

Answer why you have earned an eTR just by taking the absolute worst COV dungeons with the highest XP? And where is the storm of QQ when you can't level from 1-20 and immediately TR without acquiring tokens at level 20?

When you don't earn something it has no value. If you are going to leave because everything isn't handed to you then this isn't the game for you. Play.....the....game...

You argue like a person who has no leg to stand on, and you know it. However now that you've stated your position, you're unwilling to budge from it regardless of the mountain of evidence that can be shown that disproves your position.

You see, the thing is that we do want to PLAY THE GAME. And by the play the game we don't mean farm Wheloon 14 times per life to get comms. Holy cr ap. Really? If that's what you mean by playing the game, then I think we have diverging viewpoints of what playing means. And what game means. Because what you describe in that other post sure sounds a lot like a job. Work. Yeah, I got that for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. I don't need more. Thank you. I want to play the game. Not punch the time clock and farm the same quests over and over and over.

All I really friggin want is for Turbine to live up to its own statement that we'd get 4200 comms by 28 by playing EH. Everyone with half a brain who has played this game from 20 to 28 knows darn well that you don't get 4200 by level 28 by just playing EH and not doing crazy optimization farming just to "prove" that it's possible. Now you and others can manipulate data and present columns of numbers all day long, but experientially we know we don't get 4200 by 28, so your data doesn't mean diddily squat. Period. End of story.

BTW, you really need to get off the forums and go do your daily Wheloon chain, don't you?

[Turbosilk]

i thought everyone had stacks of self replicating coms, at least allot seem to have them

Good point. There is no difference between having stacks of self replicating comms and taking the path of fastest exp to level 28 and expecting 4200+ comms.

[Qhualor]

to be fair, they didn't say you would earn 4200 Comms by level 28. what they said was through normal leveling running EH difficulty, you would be a little short of the 4200 Comms needed. but if you ran EE through normal leveling, you would be able to earn enough.

read my sig and that's what we were told. i put the quote in my sig for a reason.

[Oxarhamar]

To everyone who thinks that the 4200 cov is easy to do..... awesome. Enjoy the game. Please spend money to keep the game going.

I have found the cov grind to be a real negative. I play less and less now. When my VIP is up for renewal in June I am just going to let it expire.

What was stated about 4200 on EH by the Devs is just not true. It was a lie, we all need to face that and stop talking about it. They will never change it.

Yes, You can have my stuff. Not that it matters, everyone on my server just duped what they needed for the Thunder-Forged weapons that came out in they latest update so why would
they want my outdated ****.

CoVs are easy to get run EE and avoid the big XP quests like Wizking, Von3, Von5, spys in the house you'll have a surplus every life.

[Relem]

CoVs are easy to get run EE and avoid the big XP quests like Wizking, Von3, Von5, spys in the house you'll have a surplus every life.

Yet Vargouille on thread Earning Hearts of Wood (Second life), post #18 stated "Running on Epic Hard can earn you a heart for free on each Epic Reincarnation cycle. If you level entirely up on Epic Elite, you'll have your heart before you are level 28."

It is blatantly obvious this is not the case otherwise there would not be so many threads concerning this subject.

The players have presented their evidence to support their case yet a developer has not.

A developer needs to step forward and end this once and for all. It is my thought that the reason this will not happen is that we, the players, will not like the response.

[zwiebelring]

Rather than new sources I'd have them drop in chests like epic token fragments so I do not have to ignore loot.

[Turbosilk]

Yet Vargouille on thread Earning Hearts of Wood (Second life), post #18 stated "Running on Epic Hard can earn you a heart for free on each Epic Reincarnation cycle. If you level entirely up on Epic Elite, you'll have your heart before you are level 28."

It is blatantly obvious this is not the case otherwise there would not be so many threads concerning this subject.

The players have presented their evidence to support their case yet a developer has not.

A developer needs to step forward and end this once and for all. It is my thought that the reason this will not happen is that we, the players, will not like the response.

Read what the dev stated. He did not state you *will* have enough by running EH. He stated you *can* have enough and indeed you can.

[Dandonk]

Read what the dev stated. He did not state you *will* have enough by running EH. He stated you *can* have enough and indeed you can.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429363-Earning-Hearts-of-Wood-(Second-Life)?p=5152334&viewfull=1#post5152334

"Our current plan is that Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood each require 4200 Commendations of Valor. This is close to our estimate of how many Commendations of Valor you would get from playing Epic Hard, non-ransacked quests and usually taking Commendations as the end reward, based on how many quests characters would finish between levels 20-28 (again, on Epic Hard)."

This implies to me that is was based on normal questing, not intentionally farming the same few quests over and over for 14 days.

EDIT: Especially since the original proposal was for vcomms to be given out from sagas, where you had to play a lot of different quests.

[Turbosilk]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429363-Earning-Hearts-of-Wood-(Second-Life)?p=5152334&viewfull=1#post5152334

"Our current plan is that Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood each require 4200 Commendations of Valor. This is close to our estimate of how many Commendations of Valor you would get from playing Epic Hard, non-ransacked quests and usually taking Commendations as the end reward, based on how many quests characters would finish between levels 20-28 (again, on Epic Hard)."

This implies to me that is was based on normal questing, not intentionally farming the same few quests over and over for 14 days.

EDIT: Especially since the original proposal was for vcomms to be given out from sagas, where you had to play a lot of different quests.

And basing it on normal questing doesn't pass the sniff test. If normal questing got you 4200 comms then there is no difference between that and having stacks of unlimited comms because you have to put zero effort into either.

[Oxarhamar]

Yet Vargouille on thread Earning Hearts of Wood (Second life), post #18 stated "Running on Epic Hard can earn you a heart for free on each Epic Reincarnation cycle. If you level entirely up on Epic Elite, you'll have your heart before you are level 28."

It is blatantly obvious this is not the case otherwise there would not be so many threads concerning this subject.

The players have presented their evidence to support their case yet a developer has not.

A developer needs to step forward and end this once and for all. It is my thought that the reason this will not happen is that we, the players, will not like the response.

This has been argued ad nausea. Not long after Varg confired that a players estimate of running everything on EH 3 times to gain the CoVs needed was what they based it on. then much later another post by the Devs explained that the CoVs needed to be the correct number now and when the level cap is raised. Procuder Rowan addressed the issue in DDOCast episode Interview with the Devs as well.

Your just going to have to except one day that the statement is taken out of context because, you sure can earn a heart only running EH but, you have to repeat a lot and running EE you do earn one for free easily running evenless than 1 and done.

No one needs to step forward they already have their comments have been completely ignored and everyone still clings to the original statement.


BTW you can earn enough CoV to ETR running only EH

I experience running EH and earning a heart in my early Epic lives mostly running EH gianthold and Wheloons daily because the provided decent CoV/minute and the XP I mixed in daily EH Id & Rusted blades for CoV and avoided Von3 wizking and all the big XP quests. I was just entering into epics when U20 hit after finishing all the heroic lives I wanted to acquire EH was tough enough for me at the time.

After the first few lives I moved on to running EE lod chain EE eveningstar EE scshdy EE demonweb EE Druids and gradually I moved to running EE Gianthold EE Wheloon EE Stormhorns. The covs come easy enough that I have surplus every life now with stacks piling up in the bank. EE is really not that difficult just be prepared to die sometimes it happens its not a snooze fest like EH.

[Dandonk]

And basing it on normal questing doesn't pass the sniff test. If normal questing got you 4200 comms then there is no difference between that and having stacks of unlimited comms because you have to put zero effort into either.

Ah, but there are other things to use comms for. Getting enough for TRing isn't the end of it.

And in any case... so what? TRing is what keeps most people playing at end game, since it IS the end game in practice. If you monetize just playing the game too much, and make the grind too harsh (which is what all these threads seem to indicate that many people think it is), people might just get fed up. People playing the game is always better than people not playing the game.

[Forzah]

Imo, they should have implemented ETR tokens instead of CoVs. The tokens are bound to character and can only be obtained when your character is capped (by playing certain quests/raids). You need an X amount of tokens to ETR; additional tokens disappear as soon as you ETR so that next time you still have to play some quests after you cap (or buy a heart). Then everybody is treated exactly the same regardless of playstyle.

[Relem]

This has been argued ad nausea. Not long after Varg confired that a players estimate of running everything on EH 3 times to gain the CoVs needed was what they based it on. then much later another post by the Devs explained that the CoVs needed to be the correct number now and when the level cap is raised. Procuder Rowan addressed the issue in DDOCast episode Interview with the Devs as well.

Your just going to have to except one day that the statement is taken out of context because, you sure can earn a heart only running EH but, you have to repeat a lot and running EE you do earn one for free easily running evenless than 1 and done.

No one needs to step forward they already have their comments have been completely ignored and everyone still clings to the original statement.


Then why did they not state the case in the original statement? And even then, saying later that they are setting the correct number now so that it is correct for when the cap is raised to 30 is beyond a joke especially since they are implementing crafting systems that are dependent on comms before the cap is even raised.

Through out history, many people have claimed things that quickly crumble apart when hard evidence was presented to contradict original statements. Saying that something is so is not presenting credible evidence either. Players have sat down in front of the game and noted exact quantities from each quest and presented it for peer review on the forums. That is credible evidence.

The devs implemented seeds to help ease the problem of having comms btc. And that appeased many. However, since the introduction of Thunder Forged items, and the high numbers they require, the problem has came back.

Now for the "Your just going to have to except" bit. I do not have to do anything you say. All I have to do is look at the evidence presented before me and make a judgement on what I see. Yes the evidence is there to support the claim that you can get 4.2k comms when the cap hits 30. How do I support this? By my own experience of gaining around 1.1k from 20-25 and around 2.2k when I hit 28. But it's going to be a very long and boring road to follow as there is not enough quests to keep me entertained. That is why I pay money to Turbine, to be entertained.

[axel15810]

Imo, they should have implemented ETR tokens instead of CoVs. The tokens are bound to character and can only be obtained when your character is capped (by playing certain quests/raids). You need an X amount of tokens to ETR; additional tokens disappear as soon as you ETR so that next time you still have to play some quests after you cap (or buy a heart). Then everybody is treated exactly the same regardless of playstyle.

Agreed.

Been saying something similar since the begining of the CoV system. They also could have given us an NPC that required completion of X number of quests for an epic heart. Make EE count as 2 completions, EH 1 completion and EN .5 completions. Also tie in quest level somehow, perhaps require X number of each quest level so you couldn't just farm low level epics. And make it so you can only count each quest one time so it couldn't be farmed. It would be a fair and easy way to set the appropriate grind. We would have a fair choice. ETR immediately by buying a heart, or complete X number of quests and earn one.

Either way ETR hearts should be earnable only at cap. The way CoVs are right now they're just too impossible to balance for everyone.

[Strider1963]

The number of CoVs one gets depends on the level and difficulty of the quest. So, it's better to stay at high levels and farm CoVs in order to get ETR hearts, instead of immediately ETRing after getting the required commendations. And now that there is a crafting system that require CoVs as well, the supply is even tighter, since the amount of farming one can do is a bit limited.

My point is, I'm not happy with how long it takes to get ETR hearts, and I think that there needs to be more sources of commendations, the price of hearts needs to go down, or epic quests need to give more comms.

I'm actually quite happy that there's a way to get Epic Hearts for nada. After all, they could just sell them in the store and make more $$. Be careful what you complain about.

[Lifespawn]

I'm actually quite happy that there's a way to get Epic Hearts for nada. After all, they could just sell them in the store and make more $$. Be careful what you complain about.


No they couldn't if store was the only way to get them very few if any would buy them even people willing to spend lots of money take offense to things being store only.


What they are doing is lowering peoples enjoyment of the game I have to take comms EVERY single end reward and not even look at any other possible loot to still not come close.

Tokens worked because a couple days or even a week at cap working twords a heart people were happy with even casual gamers could handle it more on the 1 week side.

Casual gamers or people that have to spend time with the family are screwed under this system.

Running 5 quests a day with 60 comms per run would take 2 weeks those 5 quests can take anywhere from 1 1/2 hours to 4-5 hours depending on your build and skill level not to mention that a lot of times it will be in an off destiny further reducing your ability to complete harder quests.


The entire system is very flawed and only caters to powergamers or people with a lot of money I would have no problem buying a heart every few lives but as it is I have to stay at cap for a week to grind comms in my strong destiny because it's not efficient to do so as I level in an off destiny.

[Oxarhamar]

Then why did they not state the case in the original statement? And even then, saying later that they are setting the correct number now so that it is correct for when the cap is raised to 30 is beyond a joke especially since they are implementing crafting systems that are dependent on comms before the cap is even raised.

Through out history, many people have claimed things that quickly crumble apart when hard evidence was presented to contradict original statements. Saying that something is so is not presenting credible evidence either. Players have sat down in front of the game and noted exact quantities from each quest and presented it for peer review on the forums. That is credible evidence.

The devs implemented seeds to help ease the problem of having comms btc. And that appeased many. However, since the introduction of Thunder Forged items, and the high numbers they require, the problem has came back.

Now for the "Your just going to have to except" bit. I do not have to do anything you say. All I have to do is look at the evidence presented before me and make a judgement on what I see. UuYes the evidence is there to support the claim that you can get 4.2k comms when the cap hits 30. How do I support this? By my own experience of gaining around 1.1k from 20-25 and around 2.2k when I hit 28. But it's going to be a very long and boring road to follow as there is not enough quests to keep me entertained. That is why I pay money to Turbine, to be entertained.


Continuing to refuse to except that the original statement was taken out of context and refusing to except the more recent statements of the Devs is a personal problem.

Only you can fix your Lackluster CoV gains by upping your game and running quests that will meet your goal of gaining 4200 by 28.

[axel15810]

Only you can fix your Lackluster CoV gains by upping your game and running quests that will meet your goal of gaining 4200 by 28.


So you think players who aren't hardcore and choose to play non-FoTM builds that aren't capable of running EEs exclusively while leveling don't deserve a decent CoV drop rate? That's ridiculous.

[Krelar]

This has been argued ad nausea. Not long after Varg confired that a players estimate of running everything on EH 3 times to gain the CoVs needed was what they based it on.


He clarified how they came up with their estimates several times. He also stated several times that they still expected you to get most of the commendations by the time you hit level 28 if you ran EH quests mostly at your level.



then much later another post by the Devs explained that the CoVs needed to be the correct number now and when the level cap is raised. Procuder Rowan addressed the issue in DDOCast episode Interview with the Devs as well.


Do you know where that post is? I must have missed it.

[Oxarhamar]

He clarified how they came up with their estimates several times. He also stated several times that they still expected you to get most of the commendations by the time you hit level 28 if you ran EH quests mostly at your level.



Do you know where that post is? I must have missed it.

Long buried by now. I believe it was purple but, could be wrong. producer Rowan says basically the same thing in the ddo cast interview with the Devs at the beginning if the year. all these things have been quoted and discussed in Dannock's CoV thread but I can't remeber where that thread is in the forum any longer.

[Relem]

Continuing to refuse to except that the original statement was taken out of context and refusing to except the more recent statements of the Devs is a personal problem.

Only you can fix your Lackluster CoV gains by upping your game and running quests that will meet your goal of gaining 4200 by 28.

Oh I am sorry, you must have missed the part in my post stating that the evidence is there to support the claim that you can get 4.2k comms when you hit 30, with the personal yet undocumented evidence to support it. So it would seem that you've just done exactly what you told me not to do and taken my words out of context. Very hypocritical if you ask me.

And as you have taken it as your personal crusade to critical review my posts, you would have also noted that I have not mentioned anything about what my goal in the game is. So to be fair, I should be well on target for when the cap hits 30. It seems that I will be one of the few that won't see any notable change as my play style has already accommodated it. You would have also noted the praise I gave the devs, yet you've already studied my comments to a point that you know everything about me so there is no need for me to reiterate how I did this.

Bottom line, don't attempt to troll me. The Universe is still expanding to contain my ego.

[Oxarhamar]

So you think players who aren't hardcore and choose to play non-FoTM builds that aren't capable of running EEs exclusively while leveling don't deserve a decent CoV drop rate? That's ridiculous.

No but, putting words in my mouth is fun isn't it!

anyone with a reasonably playable build can run EE form builds are not needed. What is needed is to be prepared reasonably geared and have your epic Destinies in order.

I suggest finding or forming a static group to run with this will help a lot.

The group I run in we have myself a Kensei Repeater (a personal build) I am the trapper. 1 pure sorc and a pure wizard. We mix in others from channels or guild whoever wants to come along.

[Oxarhamar]

Oh I am sorry, you must have missed the part in my post stating that the evidence is there to support the claim that you can get 4.2k comms when you hit 30, with the personal yet undocumented evidence to support it. So it would seem that you've just done exactly what you told me not to do and taken my words out of context. Very hypocritical if you ask me.

And as you have taken it as your personal crusade to critical review my posts, you would have also noted that I have not mentioned anything about what my goal in the game is. So to be fair, I should be well on target for when the cap hits 30. It seems that I will be one of the few that won't see any notable change as my play style has already accommodated it. You would have also noted the praise I gave the devs, yet you've already studied my comments to a point that you know everything about me so there is no need for me to reiterate how I did this.

Bottom line, don't attempt to troll me. The Universe is still expanding to contain my ego.

Call me a troll if you like your hyperbole sure is pretty.

My point is the Devs have made thier statements even the original is clear that running EE will gain you a free heart. you don't want to except it that's on you.

[Qhualor]

Continuing to refuse to except that the original statement was taken out of context and refusing to except the more recent statements of the Devs is a personal problem.

Only you can fix your Lackluster CoV gains by upping your game and running quests that will meet your goal of gaining 4200 by 28.

so players should be running content and difficulties they are not ready for when a lot of them are just doing past lives and more than likely wont have the gear or the skill to play those builds. theres a reason why some of us say to play the difficulty you can handle and not be a burden to other players that are able to handle the content and difficulty. nothing wrong with challenging yourself. in fact i always preach it, but i avoid EE outside of guild only because my characters don't have the gear for that particular past life and i don't want to be a burden in a group.

we can only go by what we were told and it is obviously wrong. ive leveled to 28 several different ways on EH that would be considered "normal" leveling and still couldn't get half of the Comms required. you are defending something that was never said. i have the quote what was actually said in my sig and can be clicked on to see the whole thread. no where do devs come back and say they messed up and they are wrong with their guesstimate. instead of doing what they said, they make it so xp pots can give us additional Comms and they even tried giving bonus Comms for a short time that actually got screwed up. they wont reveal how they actually figured out this formula to earn Comms in a cycle and tried to talk themselves out of it AFTER several posters pointed out their flaw, including me. all i did was pull out a calculator which ended up pretty close to being right when i actually played the game and leveled "normally" to 28. ironically, this was also the time that some people were pointing out other math flaws calculating new loot that was being released and quest xp.

[Gremmlynn]

No they couldn't if store was the only way to get them very few if any would buy them even people willing to spend lots of money take offense to things being store only.


What they are doing is lowering peoples enjoyment of the game I have to take comms EVERY single end reward and not even look at any other possible loot to still not come close.No, they are offering us the choice to lower our own enjoyment of the game in order to save a few bucks. You have to remember that Turbine is in it for the money.


Tokens worked because a couple days or even a week at cap working twords a heart people were happy with even casual gamers could handle it more on the 1 week side.

Casual gamers or people that have to spend time with the family are screwed under this system.Tokens were good when they were first introduced and were somewhat tough to get and had other things competing with hearts for them. Tokens got away from this when they were used as a lure to sell the overpriced challenge pack and became broken, from Turbines point of view, with the introduction of epic difficulties. This is evidenced by the change the were going to make with it that caused the bridge protest.


Running 5 quests a day with 60 comms per run would take 2 weeks those 5 quests can take anywhere from 1 1/2 hours to 4-5 hours depending on your build and skill level not to mention that a lot of times it will be in an off destiny further reducing your ability to complete harder quests.While I agree that off destiny leveling is a pretty silly mechanic, I don't get your point for the rest. If you are running quests that average 60 comms you should have about enough by the time you hit cap anyway.



The entire system is very flawed and only caters to powergamers or people with a lot of money I would have no problem buying a heart every few lives but as it is I have to stay at cap for a week to grind comms in my strong destiny because it's not efficient to do so as I level in an off destiny.Actually it's designed to just cater to those who spend money. "Powergamers" are just good at making the system work for themselves.

[Gremmlynn]

So you think players who aren't hardcore and choose to play non-FoTM builds that aren't capable of running EEs exclusively while leveling don't deserve a decent CoV drop rate? That's ridiculous.How is that ridiculous? Only those few who are hardcore enough to get over the high bar Turbine set for FREE Epic Hearts get FREE Epic Hearts without excessive grind. That's WAI despite what a panicked developer may have said to try to stave off another bridge protest. Selling Epic Hearts was the whole point behind developing eTR in the first place.

[Oxarhamar]

so players should be running content and difficulties they are not ready for when a lot of them are just doing past lives and more than likely wont have the gear or the skill to play those builds. theres a reason why some of us say to play the difficulty you can handle and not be a burden to other players that are able to handle the content and difficulty. nothing wrong with challenging yourself. in fact i always preach it, but i avoid EE outside of guild only because my characters don't have the gear for that particular past life and i don't want to be a burden in a group.

we can only go by what we were told and it is obviously wrong. ive leveled to 28 several different ways on EH that would be considered "normal" leveling and still couldn't get half of the Comms required. you are defending something that was never said. i have the quote what was actually said in my sig and can be clicked on to see the whole thread. no where do devs come back and say they messed up and they are wrong with their guesstimate. instead of doing what they said, they make it so xp pots can give us additional Comms and they even tried giving bonus Comms for a short time that actually got screwed up. they wont reveal how they actually figured out this formula to earn Comms in a cycle and tried to talk themselves out of it AFTER several posters pointed out their flaw, including me. all i did was pull out a calculator which ended up pretty close to being right when i actually played the game and leveled "normally" to 28. ironically, this was also the time that some people were pointing out other math flaws calculating new loot that was being released and quest xp.

Hang on that quote and ignore all the later comments by the Devs that you like.

The only thing keeping you from gaining the required CoV while running EH is your own leveling patterns. I've done it a few times before I moved to EE.

[Krelar]

Long buried by now. I believe it was purple but, could be wrong. producer Rowan says basically the same thing in the ddo cast interview with the Devs at the beginning if the year. all these things have been quoted and discussed in Dannock's CoV thread but I can't remeber where that thread is in the forum any longer.

Found it.

I see why I likely didn't remember it the first time, it's buried in a very long post and it doesn't specifically mention level level cap (28 or 30). It also doesn't say that the current number is correct just that it is "complex" figuring out what the right number should be.



Some of the guys are overlapping with the character advancements team to look at the number of Commendations of Valor we’re giving out. We know that there are complaints that we’re giving out too few, and we’re working to address that. Some of what’s making it complex is that we want to give out the right number not only for the immediate short-term, but that it’ll stay the right number 6 months from now or 2 years from now.

[Oxarhamar]

Found it.

I see why I likely didn't remember it the first time, it's buried in a very long post and it doesn't specifically mention level level cap (28 or 30). It also doesn't say that the current number is correct just that it is "complex" figuring out what the right number should be.

Your right. The word used was right not correct that's the quote.

I was one of those to say the number can not be right now and later but, that hasn't stopped me from adjusting my gameplay to gain the CoV as they are.

[Relem]

And my point is that the devs need to follow the example of the players and produce the data in the same format as the players that have recorded and published their results on the forum for peer review to end the argument once and for all.

The problem with MMORPGs is that it tends to attract RPG players who love tables, stats and a whole host of other numbers. For DDO, it is the player base that provides most of the hard data to support the game. And most of the player base is currently supporting the fact there isn't enough comms in the game.

The second you started attacking my play style and stating my number of comms is lacklust, that is when you started trolling not critical review my posts otherwise you would have noticed I'm neutral on the subject.

[Oxarhamar]

And my point is that the devs need to follow the example of the players and produce the data in the same format as the players that have recorded and published their results on the forum for peer review to end the argument once and for all.

The problem with MMORPGs is that it tends to attract RPG players who love tables, stats and a whole host of other numbers. For DDO, it is the player base that provides most of the hard data to support the game. And most of the player base is currently supporting the fact there isn't enough comms in the game.

The second you started attacking my play style and stating my number of comms is lacklust, that is when you started trolling not critical review my posts otherwise you would have noticed I'm neutral on the subject.

You complian there is not enough.

I think thier is plenty haven't had a single issue.

Play style is the separation here you can adjust or continue to complain but, f CoV are too easy to get then store sales die so there has to be some balance point.



All the tables, stats, and any other math you use does nada unless you implement what you've learned in your gameplay.

[Oxarhamar]

And then

[Lifespawn]

again stated by a dev that running on eh at level is what they based the cov's on


Having done multiple lives where I did quests under level and many quests on EE instead of eh there is a huge disconnect here somewhere.

2 Weeks of running the same 5 quests every day to maximize cov gain is not fun and should not be the goal nor does it make people happy to buy hearts.

[Dandonk]

again stated by a dev that running on eh at level is what they based the cov's on


Having done multiple lives where I did quests under level and many quests on EE instead of eh there is a huge disconnect here somewhere.

2 Weeks of running the same 5 quests every day to maximize cov gain is not fun and should not be the goal nor does it make people happy to buy hearts.

Yes, there's a very huge disconnect between the devs and most of the players in this topic.

[Qhualor]

Hang on that quote and ignore all the later comments by the Devs that you like.

The only thing keeping you from gaining the required CoV while running EH is your own leveling patterns. I've done it a few times before I moved to EE.

I'm not ignoring it. In fact I commented on the later responses the devs made. I would say you are ignoring the data responses given by the players proving that their math is wrong.

[Oxarhamar]

I'm not ignoring it. In fact I commented on the later responses the devs made. I would say you are ignoring the data responses given by the players proving that their math is wrong.

Or your ignoring where I posted my method for gathering enough CoV to ETR running EH from 20-28.

It's completely possible done it 3 or 4 times but, you have to change how you play for CoV and forget everything else as has been stated; no big XP, no challenges, no explorers, no optionals, etc... eventually I moved to EE because, it's easier and I still avoid most sources of XP that don't have a stack of CoV attached.

show me the Devs Math...

[Qhualor]

Or your ignoring where I posted my method for gathering enough CoV to ETR running EH from 20-28.

It's completely possible done it 3 or 4 times but, you have to change how you play for CoV and forget everything else as has been stated; no big XP, no challenges, no explorers, no optionals, etc... eventually I moved to EE because, it's easier and I still avoid most sources of XP that don't have a stack of CoV attached.

show me the Devs Math...

that method is a work around by limiting yourself to specific parts of the game. hardly what i would call playing the game normally and it certainly is still not what we were told by the devs. it has been pointed out by me and several others many times that running quests like Eveningstar and Wheloon and skipping optionals and slayers on your way to the quests and skipping big xp quests, etc. is the best way to earn enough Comms per cycle. this isn't anything new and something i keep arguing, as well as others, that its stupid to have to limit how we want to play like this.

[Oxarhamar]

that method is a work around by limiting yourself to specific parts of the game. hardly what i would call playing the game normally and it certainly is still not what we were told by the devs. it has been pointed out by me and several others many times that running quests like Eveningstar and Wheloon and skipping optionals and slayers on your way to the quests and skipping big xp quests, etc. is the best way to earn enough Comms per cycle. this isn't anything new and something i keep arguing, as well as others, that its stupid to have to limit how we want to play like this.

Seams to be accurate to what we have form ALL of the Devs posts.

[Ivan_Milic]

Or your ignoring where I posted my method for gathering enough CoV to ETR running EH from 20-28.

It's completely possible done it 3 or 4 times but, you have to change how you play for CoV and forget everything else as has been stated; no big XP, no challenges, no explorers, no optionals, etc... eventually I moved to EE because, it's easier and I still avoid most sources of XP that don't have a stack of CoV attached.

show me the Devs Math...

Where did you post that?
I would like to see it.

[Oxarhamar]

Where did you post that?
I would like to see it.

Been posted a bunch of times in other treads discussing CoV as well as in this thread.

[Dandonk]

that method is a work around by limiting yourself to specific parts of the game. hardly what i would call playing the game normally and it certainly is still not what we were told by the devs. it has been pointed out by me and several others many times that running quests like Eveningstar and Wheloon and skipping optionals and slayers on your way to the quests and skipping big xp quests, etc. is the best way to earn enough Comms per cycle. this isn't anything new and something i keep arguing, as well as others, that its stupid to have to limit how we want to play like this.

Very much so. Skipping half the content so you burn out faster running the same few quests over and over for 14 days (which is what was posted to get to 4200 by running EH to 28) cannot be good for the longevity of the game.

[Ivan_Milic]

Been posted a bunch of times in other treads discussing CoV as well as in this thread.

So I have to look for it.

[Turbosilk]

that method is a work around by limiting yourself to specific parts of the game. hardly what i would call playing the game normally and it certainly is still not what we were told by the devs. it has been pointed out by me and several others many times that running quests like Eveningstar and Wheloon and skipping optionals and slayers on your way to the quests and skipping big xp quests, etc. is the best way to earn enough Comms per cycle. this isn't anything new and something i keep arguing, as well as others, that its stupid to have to limit how we want to play like this.

I understand that the game is messed up unless we can run the same highest exp/min quest over and over and over AND that provides us all the COVs we need. To employ a strategy to do anything is just dumb.

[Turbosilk]

Very much so. Skipping half the content so you burn out faster running the same few quests over and over for 14 days (which is what was posted to get to 4200 by running EH to 28) cannot be good for the longevity of the game.

Reading comprehension is good. I stated you can extrapolate and see how you get 4200+ comms, that is not actually the path I ran because I'm not 28 yet. There are several paths to get 4200 by running a combo of EN and EH. That particular path I chose allowed me to do my 45min wheloon chain run because I had a heavy workload. When I have more time I run a larger mix of GH, Stormhorns, Druids Curse, Wheloon, etc.

Skipping 90% of the content to farm exp on the same quests over and over is how you don't burn out. And it's obviously good for the longevity of the game.

[Oxarhamar]

So I have to look for it.


snip* as well as in this thread.

The thread is 4 pages long if your not willing to read the entire thread your not contributing anything of value.

[Dandonk]

Skipping 90% of the content to farm exp on the same quests over and over is how you don't burn out. And it's obviously good for the longevity of the game.

Sorry, I don't understand this at all. You're saying less content is better? I cannot disagree more. You think we should have stayed with the amount of quests we had at launch?

[Qhualor]

I understand that the game is messed up unless we can run the same highest exp/min quest over and over and over AND that provides us all the COVs we need. To employ a strategy to do anything is just dumb.

i don't play xp/min.

[Ivan_Milic]

The thread is 4 pages long if your not willing to read the entire thread your not contributing anything of value.

Neither are you, and it is you are, not your.

[Dandonk]

i don't play xp/min.

Indeed. I run a wide variety of quests.

[Turbosilk]

Indeed. I run a wide variety of quests.

/sarcasm off

[Dandonk]

/sarcasm off

Thank you for not believing me. You can check my two threads on this subject if you want more details.

[Turbosilk]

Answer why it is okay to not immediately heroic TR at 20 - you have to collect tokens at 20. Yet it is not okay for epic.

[Qhualor]

Seams to be accurate to what we have form ALL of the Devs posts.

what dev posts are backing up your limited play style to to be WAI? the devs are wrong and many of us have proven them to be wrong, but according to Pro-Function, Varg is content with the Comm situation.

[Dandonk]

Answer why it is okay to not immediately heroic TR at 20 - you have to collect tokens at 20. Yet it is not okay for epic.

Because Turbine said it would be different.

[Qhualor]

Answer why it is okay to not immediately heroic TR at 20 - you have to collect tokens at 20. Yet it is not okay for epic.

it takes 1 day to a few days to a week at most depending on play style to get enough tokens to TR. they are easy to get, unlike Comms. it took me 3 Iconic lives to reach 4300 Comms through "normal" leveling mainly on EH and i now have 100 epic tokens. people didn't mind a little grind after reaching cap to collect tokens. most people do mind when most people are experiencing the same situation that they have to farm for days and days to get enough Comms to ER. tokens you can get in any Eberron content except EGH on any difficulty and theres usually a good chance to pull an extra token in specific quests. Comms vary depending on difficulty, obviously more on EE, and xp pots and its well known that running Eveningstar/Whellon quests for the highest Comms is better.

[Turbosilk]

Because Turbine said it would be different.

*Different* whoa that narrows it down. Good thing we all know exactly what that means. Think about what it means if you believe everyone should be able to farm high exp low comm quests with no difficulty and speed to level 28 and be able to immediately eTR. Seriously, actually put some thought into it.

[Dandonk]

*Different* whoa that narrows it down. Good thing we all know exactly what that means. Think about what it means if you believe everyone should be able to farm high exp low comm quests with no difficulty and speed to level 28 and be able to immediately eTR. Seriously, actually put some thought into it.

What I meant by different was "get 4200 vcomms through normal gameplay running EH to 28".

[Turbosilk]

What I meant by different was "get 4200 vcomms through normal gameplay running EH to 28".

Normal? Decently planned yes. Next everyone is going to say it should only take 1 month to get heroic completionist or epic completionist and QQ storm when they can't.

[Oxarhamar]

what dev posts are backing up your limited play style to to be WAI? the devs are wrong and many of us have proven them to be wrong, but according to Pro-Function, Varg is content with the Comm situation.

All the posts that are not linked in your sig about CoV to start.

your aware of them you've commented in the threads and I have linked them numerous times in the other relevant CoV threads.


Everyone just wants to hang on that first post and ignore every other Dev post on the topic since. That is not my problem.


Funny you call it limited play style. You know what I call gaining enough CoV to ETR while leveling from 20 - 28 and gaining enough karma to refill my spheres? Efficient.

[Dandonk]

Which is possible.

If you call running the same few quests over and over for 14 days "normal", as well as avoiding all optionals, challenges and areas "normal". I don't. Avoiding more than half the content to make a workaround for this "feature" seems silly to me, and definitely not "normal gameplay".

[Turbosilk]

If you call running the same few quests over and over for 14 days "normal", as well as avoiding all optionals, challenges and areas "normal". I don't. Avoiding more than half the content to make a workaround for this "feature" seems silly to me, and definitely not "normal gameplay".

How many times do I have to explain that is not what I did? Obviously at least 1 more.

[Qhualor]

All the posts that are not linked in your sig about CoV to start.

your aware of them you've commented in the threads and I have linked them numerous times in the other relevant CoV threads.


Everyone just wants to hang on that first post and ignore every other Dev post on the topic since. That is not my problem.

because only a few of you still say "all is fine" while the rest of us say its not what they told us.

its not your problem and say "all is fine" because you came up with a workaround that backs up what the devs said is WAI. that doesn't support what the devs say. and the post in that thread from my sig as well as other posts from other threads proving the devs wrong is what keeps getting ignored.

[Oxarhamar]

because only a few of you still say "all is fine" while the rest of us say its not what they told us.

its not your problem and say "all is fine" because you came up with a workaround that backs up what the devs said is WAI. that doesn't support what the devs say. and the post in that thread from my sig as well as other posts from other threads proving the devs wrong is what keeps getting ignored.



Funny you call it limited play style and work around. You know what I call gaining enough CoV to ETR while leveling from 20 - 28 and gaining enough karma to refill my spheres? Efficient.

[Turbosilk]

because only a few of you still say "all is fine" while the rest of us say its not what they told us.

its not your problem and say "all is fine" because you came up with a workaround that backs up what the devs said is WAI. that doesn't support what the devs say. and the post in that thread from my sig as well as other posts from other threads proving the devs wrong is what keeps getting ignored.

Mob rule and catering to the QQ crowd makes for bad games.

[Lifespawn]

it takes 1 day to a few days to a week at most depending on play style to get enough tokens to TR. they are easy to get, unlike Comms. it took me 3 Iconic lives to reach 4300 Comms through "normal" leveling mainly on EH and i now have 100 epic tokens. people didn't mind a little grind after reaching cap to collect tokens. most people do mind when most people are experiencing the same situation that they have to farm for days and days to get enough Comms to ER. tokens you can get in any Eberron content except EGH on any difficulty and theres usually a good chance to pull an extra token in specific quests. Comms vary depending on difficulty, obviously more on EE, and xp pots and its well known that running Eveningstar/Whellon quests for the highest Comms is better.

You also didn't have to skip any loot or favor to get those tokens it was just extra cov you have to choose cov over guild or loot EVERY time not to mention adding cov to the new crafting.

[Lifespawn]

Funny you call it limited play style and work around. You know what I call gaining enough CoV to ETR while leveling from 20 - 28 and gaining enough karma to refill my spheres? Efficient.


Please post a detailed list of what you do how many times you do it and how many hours a day you do it then we may take you seriously.

[Turbosilk]

You also didn't have to skip any loot or favor to get those tokens it was just extra cov you have to choose cov over guild or loot EVERY time not to mention adding cov to the new crafting.

I had to skip an amazing # of feats I wanted to get the feats I have. Not sure I'm gonna survive. And then I had to skip a lot of spells I wanted to get the spells I have.

There are trade-offs in the game? Why didn't anyone tell me until now?

[Oxarhamar]

Please post a detailed list of what you do how many times you do it and how many hours a day you do it then we may take you seriously.

There is no detailed list.

First of all I don't keep logs of what I play when.

Second it is not a structured play style it is a basic framework a guideline that I formed and followed.

No big XP, explorers, skip optionals that didn't have a change do drop loot I might be after. I never used XP pots. I. did flag up all the sagas each life and take the XP at the start of an ETR to jump start towards CITW gear. Then I would do daily ID & Rusted and run through all of Gainthold, Highroads, wheloon, or Stormhorns depending on what I felt like running at the time. I found players who had similar goals and play times and started a static group. I played about 3 hours a night and did not track how long ETRs took from start to finish. Very relaxed play for me.

--
After 3 lives started running the lower quests on EE evening star chain, sschdy, Demon web which eventually led to running everything on EE.

[Dandonk]

After 3 lives started running the lower quests on EE evening star chain, sschdy, Demon web which eventually led to running everything on EE.

AH, EE. This discussion is about EH.

[Oxarhamar]

AH, EE. This discussion is about EH.

Ah ha ignore the whole bit about EH everything that came before the bit you quoted.

[Dandonk]

Ah ha ignore the whole bit about EH everything that came before the bit you quoted.

Sorry, thought it was the same post.

In any case, I've posted my results. Twice. That show nowhere near the comms Turbine said we'd get.

[Turbosilk]

Ah ha ignore the whole bit about EH everything that came before the bit you quoted.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[Qhualor]

Mob rule and catering to the QQ crowd makes for bad games.

its rare that im on the side of the majority of people, but in this case with Comms, i am. hopefully you read more of the forums than this thread and see for yourself that im usually at odds with most forumites because i believe in the best intentions for the game.

[Qhualor]

Funny you call it limited play style and work around. You know what I call gaining enough CoV to ETR while leveling from 20 - 28 and gaining enough karma to refill my spheres? Efficient.

you said you run specific quests, which is at odds with the 3x on EH that the devs said after what they said in my sig that you continue to defend, which is not "normal" leveling that the devs also said is how you can get most of the Comms needed by level 28. you found a way that is best for you to earn these Comms that totally contradicts the very thing you defend. im not bashing it, but it is what it is.

[Oxarhamar]

you said you run specific quests, which is at odds with the 3x on EH that the devs said after what they said in my sig that you continue to defend, which is not "normal" leveling that the devs also said is how you can get most of the Comms needed by level 28. you found a way that is best for you to earn these Comms that totally contradicts the very thing you defend. im not bashing it, but it is what it is.

No I found a way to gain enough CoV while leveling from 20-28 on EH and gain full Karma. To me this is normal leveling achieving my goals on the most efficient way I can find.


EH was putting me on target for ~4300 a life which is why I moved to EE. now I have a surplus each life and can run the big XP quests when I want. Still outside of the big XP quests I only run the saga quests once per life on EE to flag the sagas and for CoV then I run my perfered daily big CoV/min quests and a bit of Haunted Halls & The new Raids.

[Oxarhamar]

you said you run specific quests, which is at odds with the 3x on EH that the devs said after what they said in my sig that you continue to defend, which is not "normal" leveling that the devs also said is how you can get most of the Comms needed by level 28. you found a way that is best for you to earn these Comms that totally contradicts the very thing you defend. im not bashing it, but it is what it is.

Anything in Eberon don't bother with outside of XP and Gainthold since the low levels produces poor CoV returns.


I also dislike a lot of the old epics from having to run them for tokens long ago also the Shard/Seal/Scroll system I prefer loot to drop as useable epic items rather thanks bits to be collected I never have farmed not will I ever farm a single S/S/S item.

[Oxarhamar]

Sorry, thought it was the same post.

In any case, I've posted my results. Twice. That show nowhere near the comms Turbine said we'd get.

And I showed you how to do it on EH a number of times.

[Lifespawn]

I had to skip an amazing # of feats I wanted to get the feats I have. Not sure I'm gonna survive. And then I had to skip a lot of spells I wanted to get the spells I have.

There are trade-offs in the game? Why didn't anyone tell me until now?


Hyperbole and not the same thing at all the simple fact that it is on an end reward list makes you choose between loot you need comms to tr or the health of your guild and you have to make that choice at the end of every quest.

3 hours a day does not get you tr'd in a reasonable time and you are basically saying avoid over 1/2 the epic content and not running at level quests as was stated by the devs.

[Oxarhamar]

Hyperbole and not the same thing at all the simple fact that it is on an end reward list makes you choose between loot you need comms to tr or the health of your guild and you have to make that choice at the end of every quest.

3 hours a day does not get you tr'd in a reasonable time and you are basically saying avoid over 1/2 the epic content and not running at level quests as was stated by the devs.

9 ETR & 2 ITR since U20 pretty reasonable to me.

[Lifespawn]

9 ETR & 2 ITR since U20 pretty reasonable to me.


8 quests at 60 comms each would net you 480 a day that would be 96 days at that rate and still the same handful of quests to equal 60 comms a quest and that was before xp helped comms....

[Oxarhamar]

8 quests at 60 comms each would net you 480 a day that would be 96 days at that rate and still the same handful of quests to equal 60 comms a quest and that was before xp helped comms....

Good thing it doesn't take 3 hours to do 8 quests

Also I've moved on from Eh since EE is easier and XP does effects CoV now so things are much different.

[Lifespawn]

Good thing it doesn't take 3 hours to do 8 quests

average 20 minutes a quest lvl 26-28 quests all on ee of which there are only 15 because remember running lower than that level seriously makes these numbers worse even 5 comms less a run adds 10 days to that number

[Oxarhamar]

average 20 minutes a quest lvl 26-28 quests all on ee of which there are only 15 because remember running lower than that level seriously makes these numbers worse even 5 comms less a run adds 10 days to that number

I like how you theory craft my CoV gains questing times and leveling patterns my in game experience says different.

[Lifespawn]

I like how you theory craft my CoV gains questing times and leveling patterns my in game experience says different.


this isn't theory crafting it's called using math to prove a point....axer is that you?

20 minutes per quest on EE is a reasonable assumption sure some can be completed quicker but others take much longer i feel like i'm being generous on 20 min per quest average especially considering the 15 quests that would net you 60 comms on average oncludes the 2 new raids haunted halls and brothers of the forge.



Running those quests on eh nets 1/2 that cov number

[Lifespawn]

I like how you theory craft my CoV gains questing times and leveling patterns my in game experience says different.


i can say i feel like i run faster than you but until i can show you my speed and your speed i'm not actually right feeling like something is fine and knowing it isn't because math proves it is 2 very different things.

[Oxarhamar]

8 quests at 60 comms each would net you 480 a day that would be 96 days at that rate and still the same handful of quests to equal 60 comms a quest and that was before xp helped comms....

Still at that rate it is ~8 days a life average and I have a surplus of CoV along with spending time in heroics on the ITR

You think ETR should take less than 8 days at 3 hrs day then?

[Lifespawn]

Still at that rate it is ~8 days a life average and I have a surplus of CoV along with spending time in heroics on the ITR

You think ETR should take less than 8 days at 3 hrs day then?

no thats your rate of all EE high cov quests each and every day nonstop for 96 days to do the etr's you mentioned the time in heroics doesn't come in to play in that.

at 3 hours a day running on EH thats 16 days+ not every player can log in and have a group ready to zerg for 3 hours all on EE and maintain that 400+ cov per session.


And my point is that you have to take the COV every single end reward list and can't play any other quests you may enjoy because it gets exponentially worse.

Want to run a deathwrym there goes about an hour haunted halls to get one of those new items that would be perfect for your char there goes another hour IF you get it and then you have to upgrade it well that 16 days just turned in to 25 and thats where the problem lies


Not with the powergamers that can hammer out a life in 6-8 days good for them they don't see a problem they wouldn't be buying the hearts anyway the casual gamer that says hey i'll buy one every 2-3 lives because it makes it easier is where the money is.

at 25 or more days they are going to say pfft forget doing etr it's not worth it then there is no money for turbine and less people playing win win right?

[Oxarhamar]

no thats your rate of all EE high cov quests each and every day nonstop for 96 days to do the etr's you mentioned the time in heroics doesn't come in to play in that.

at 3 hours a day running on EH thats 16 days+ not every player can log in and have a group ready to zerg for 3 hours all on EE and maintain that 400+ cov per session.

And my point is that you have to take the COV every single end reward list and can't play any other quests you may enjoy because it gets exponentially worse.

Want to run a deathwrym there goes about an hour haunted halls to get one of those new items that would be perfect for your char there goes another hour IF you get it and then you have to upgrade it well that 16 days just turned in to 25 and thats where the problem lies


Not with the powergamers that can hammer out a life in 6-8 days good for them they don't see a problem they wouldn't be buying the hearts anyway the casual gamer that says hey i'll buy one every 2-3 lives because it makes it easier is where the money is.

at 25 or more days they are going to say pfft forget doing etr it's not worth it then there is no money for turbine and less people playing win win right?



Except that since HH was released I replaced that as one of my XP quests and have 24 & 22 completions of the raids. I could add more XP quests and speed things up since I have a surplus but, I saving those maybe do some Zerg lives once I have enough to just mash them out with no worry of CoV.

Asking I have not seen a single item I would take over CoV in all my end rewards. Guild reknown I was taking from sagas

but, that's a bit off topic. The discussion was if it was possible to do EH ETR 20-28 and I showed how I was doing it before I learned the quests and formed a static group for EE. I was pugging EH putting up an LFM and going at it. It was those players who often hit my LFM repeatedly that I formed a static group with. Pre U20 I spent most of my time in heroics since I found no reason to run epics after farming Epic Destinies so I was learning at first in EH. We still pug spots for EE and take anyone who hits the LFM.
---
On topic of OP I agree more CoV would be good but, if you look at what we have for more now.

1)XP bonuses this is nice makes pots useable for those who use them. I only use free ones.
2)CoV drops in Thunderholme. Not as awesome but, nice little something while the raids are filling I invis run through the explorer looking for rates last go I pulled 6 rares + the hidden trapped chest. Out of them I pulled 14 CoV. Not worth effort to farm but, nice little treat when you happen to get some.
3) side chest at the end if Deathwyrm drops CoV ~20 average maybe just a guess there
4)maybe I'm dragon chest In HH but, I am not 100% on that

[Relem]

You complian there is not enough.

I think thier is plenty haven't had a single issue.

Play style is the separation here you can adjust or continue to complain but, f CoV are too easy to get then store sales die so there has to be some balance point.



All the tables, stats, and any other math you use does nada unless you implement what you've learned in your gameplay.

There are not enough sources of CoV in the game. Going by a recent thread started by Produktion_Malphunktion, he has stated that to get enough comms when you hit cap, you need to quests at level on EH. That is basically telling me at level 27, I must only run the stormhorns and nothing else... Yeah, that's kind of going to get boring pretty quickly.

And again, you rather go on about my game play style. Ok, let's do this. I love explorers, I listen to the story, I enjoy wandering around looking for trouble, I run the challenges. Yet for me To complete the task set by the devs, I must avoid all of these and some how lose my greater tome of learning xp boost that get's me to level quicker.

[Oxarhamar]

There are not enough sources of CoV in the game. Going by a recent thread started by Produktion_Malphunktion, he has stated that to get enough comms when you hit cap, you need to quests at level on EH. That is basically telling me at level 27, I must only run the stormhorns and nothing else... Yeah, that's kind of going to get boring pretty quickly.

And again, you rather go on about my game play style. Ok, let's do this. I love explorers, I listen to the story, I enjoy wandering around looking for trouble, I run the challenges. Yet for me To complete the task set by the devs, I must avoid all of these and some how lose my greater tome of learning xp boost that get's me to level quicker.

Choosing to do thing that grant no CoV that's your choice.

Fun for me is accomplishing goals.

You have to sort out what it is you want from the game and what you need to do to get it done. You want to run explorers and Challenges to ETR. Your going to be short on CoV.

[Lifespawn]

Choosing to do thing that grant no CoV that's your choice.

Fun for me is accomplishing goals.

You have to sort out what it is you want from the game and what you need to do to get it done. You want to run explorers and Challenges to ETR. Your going to be short on CoV.


It shouldn't be a choice between having fun and enjoying the game.


Anything you do at epic levels should do something twords etr otherwise it just causes a divide.


sagas should have stacks, on hard a little stack on elite a bigger stack on true elite a bigger stack 50 100 150 something like that for the small saga

Challenges make a new ingredient to turn in mats for comms 3 types of whatever amount = 150 comms give us some kind of reason to run them instead of just leaving another system behind.

Lots of ways this could be done many have been stated multiple times.


Personally i wish comms dropped like challenge mats did based on what you did in the quest breakable, kills, traps, no deaths, and xp pots all factored in and placed comms in your inventory or bag at quest completion.

[Oxarhamar]

It shouldn't be a choice between having fun and enjoying the game.


Anything you do at epic levels should do something twords etr otherwise it just causes a divide.


sagas should have stacks, on hard a little stack on elite a bigger stack on true elite a bigger stack 50 100 150 something like that for the small saga

Challenges make a new ingredient to turn in mats for comms 3 types of whatever amount = 150 comms give us some kind of reason to run them instead of just leaving another system behind.

Lots of ways this could be done many have been stated multiple times.


Personally i wish comms dropped like challenge mats did based on what you did in the quest breakable, kills, traps, no deaths, and xp pots all factored in and placed comms in your inventory or bag at quest completion.

I wouldn't be against Challenges granting a daily CoV amount on a first time run through like quests do.

[Turbosilk]

It shouldn't be a choice between having fun and enjoying the game.


Anything you do at epic levels should do something twords etr otherwise it just causes a divide.

Fun is dead when you dumb down a game so much and by taking the challenge out. It's like playing solitaire.

Anything you do at epic levels does do something towards etr. Exp and/or comms.


And while you are at it explain why you aren't complaining about TR requirements? PS I hope your signature gets you banned.

[Lifespawn]

Fun is dead when you dumb down a game so much and by taking the challenge out. It's like playing solitaire.

Anything you do at epic levels does do something towards etr. Exp and/or comms.


And while you are at it explain why you aren't complaining about TR requirements? PS I hope your signature gets you banned.


fun for you maybe there are people i meet in game that have never raided or have not run every quest yet

the game is not all about you i agree that there should be some things that are challenging my guild was the first group along with another guild soulless to beat the abbot while it was deemed unbeatable we practiced for hours for over a month and finally beat it and it was a great feeling of accomplishment.

But i still think of how others play because the game isn't about just me plenty of people don't have the time or effort to be able to dedicate 3-5 hours every day running the same 6-8 quests to maximize cov gain and they should not be ignored.

They should be able to enjoy the game and etr without being forced to buy a heart every life they will never get epic completionist so you can still feel special with that.

Not being forced to buy something will actually make me more likely to buy it because i don't like being forced and i know many others that are like minded.


why would my sig get me banned i haven't changed it in almost 2 years

[Lifespawn]

Fun is dead when you dumb down a game so much and by taking the challenge out. It's like playing solitaire.

Anything you do at epic levels does do something towards etr. Exp and/or comms.


And while you are at it explain why you aren't complaining about TR requirements? PS I hope your signature gets you banned.


tr requirements for a powergamer is 1 night maybe a week for casuals i think that is nicely balanced 2-5 weeks for an etr is not and tokens don't require you to take them over anything else you can still grab loot and guild renown.

[Turbosilk]

fun for you maybe there are people i meet in game that have never raided or have not run every quest yet

the game is not all about you i agree that there should be some things that are challenging my guild was the first group along with another guild soulless to beat the abbot while it was deemed unbeatable we practiced for hours for over a month and finally beat it and it was a great feeling of accomplishment.

But i still think of how others play because the game isn't about just me plenty of people don't have the time or effort to be able to dedicate 3-5 hours every day running the same 6-8 quests to maximize cov gain and they should not be ignored.

They should be able to enjoy the game and etr without being forced to buy a heart every life they will never get epic completionist so you can still feel special with that.

Not being forced to buy something will actually make me more likely to buy it because i don't like being forced and i know many others that are like minded.


why would my sig get me banned i haven't changed it in almost 2 years

You are avoiding a key question. Explain why you aren't complaining about TR requirements?

[Lifespawn]

You are avoiding a key question. Explain why you aren't complaining about TR requirements?


rather than be snide i'll ask you to go back and read the post above

[Turbosilk]

rather than be snide i'll ask you to go back and read the post above

My reading comprehension is obviously off. I see nothing related in your post(s).

[Oxarhamar]

tr requirements for a powergamer is 1 night maybe a week for casuals i think that is nicely balanced 2-5 weeks for an etr is not and tokens don't require you to take them over anything else you can still grab loot and guild renown.

2-5 weeks is balanced when you compare to Tokens at initial release and how long it took to farm 20 of them to TR for players of different play styles.

[Lifespawn]

tr requirements for a powergamer is 1 night maybe a week for casuals i think that is nicely balanced 2-5 weeks for an etr is not and tokens don't require you to take them over anything else you can still grab loot and guild renown.


here i'll quote myself

[Lifespawn]

2-5 weeks is balanced when you compare to Tokens at initial release and how long it took to farm 20 of them to TR for players of different play styles.


not even close i tr'd right at the beginning and even before challenges it was 1-2 days to get a token and that was on top of all the best loot the game had to offer at that time.

[Gremmlynn]

Would I like more COVs? Yes I would.

Do I expect Turbine to give them to me? No, that would take away any incentive for me to buy them.

I understand that if I want to play the game "my way" I have to pay to do so. If I want to play for free, I have to play it the free way, which is likely be a lot more tedious. That's just how the world works.

[Oxarhamar]

tr requirements for a powergamer is 1 night maybe a week for casuals i think that is nicely balanced 2-5 weeks for an etr is not and tokens don't require you to take them over anything else you can still grab loot and guild renown.


not even close i tr'd right at the beginning and even before challenges it was 1-2 days to get a token and that was on top of all the best loot the game had to offer at that time.

Right at the beginning there was a limited number if Epic quests that offered tokens with a once a day timer. The quests were punishing for those who were not fully geared and for most required a full party. It was quite common for casual players to only run the carnival chain once each day until they had enough tokens.

[Ivan_Milic]

not even close i tr'd right at the beginning and even before challenges it was 1-2 days to get a token and that was on top of all the best loot the game had to offer at that time.

You can get 4.2k covs in 1-2 days too.
Most of the old epic quests took at least 30 min, and you had to have a good group.
Idk how many people soloed epics back then, but it was much harder than ee now, also idk if epics scaled then.

[Lifespawn]

You can get 4.2k covs in 1-2 days too.
Most of the old epic quests took at least 30 min, and you had to have a good group.
Idk how many people soloed epics back then, but it was much harder than ee now, also idk if epics scaled then.

house p and red fens were quite easy to solo or duo but you could get the tokens to tr much faster no matter how you put it and it got too good with the challenges


not asking to be spoon fed cov's but there is already a gate 6.6m xp and off destiny farming doesn't promote EE runs

it's not for myself that i care about the benefits either i'm not a tr junkie but it's detrimental to the health of the game to be forced to spend money on hearts 3 out of 4 lives.

[Oxarhamar]

house p and red fens were quite easy to solo or duo but you could get the tokens to tr much faster no matter how you put it and it got too good with the challenges


not asking to be spoon fed cov's but there is already a gate 6.6m xp and off destiny farming doesn't promote EE runs

it's not for myself that i care about the benefits either i'm not a tr junkie but it's detrimental to the health of the game to be forced to spend money on hearts 3 out of 4 lives.

it's easy enough to get CoV in game to ETR just have to do the work.


I run EE in any sphere so do my other party members. Yes it gets a bit tougher, people die that is what Rez scrolls are for.

[Qhualor]

Right at the beginning there was a limited number if Epic quests that offered tokens with a once a day timer. The quests were punishing for those who were not fully geared and for most required a full party. It was quite common for casual players to only run the carnival chain once each day until they had enough tokens.

old epics were like that, but not before they changed it to c/n/h/e. it was common for players (not just casuals) to run Big Top, challenges and DA on multiple characters getting enough tokens in 1 week max usually. plus there was the incentive to run epics for s/s/s for epic gear.

[Lifespawn]

You can get 4.2k covs in 1-2 days too.
Most of the old epic quests took at least 30 min, and you had to have a good group.
Idk how many people soloed epics back then, but it was much harder than ee now, also idk if epics scaled then.

doing every lvl 25+ quest on elite base payout is 1895 comms with bonus probably would get you to the 2100 your talking for a 2 day grind.

Thats 37 quests per day on epic elite all level 27+ do you really think thats even possible? thats over a 12 hour session each day with 20 min average quest times and most of those quests take longer than 20 min.

[Lifespawn]

it's easy enough to get CoV in game to ETR just have to do the work.


I run EE in any sphere so do my other party members. Yes it gets a bit tougher, people die that is what Rez scrolls are for.


you seriously need to step out of your own personal bubble and look at how others play.

EE is very easy for you and your group of friends it's the same for me and mine but that being said the vast majority of players not only don't play at that level they actually can't play at that level.

They don't have the best of the best builds that can play most destinies and make each one work.

Lowering the comms needed or making them a little easier to get would make turbine more money than they would lose from powergamers thinking it's too easy and never buying hearts because the non powergamers are a much larger portion of the playerbase.

[Oxarhamar]

old epics were like that, but not before they changed it to c/n/h/e. it was common for players (not just casuals) to run Big Top, challenges and DA on multiple characters getting enough tokens in 1 week max usually. plus there was the incentive to run epics for s/s/s for epic gear.

And I was comparing CoV grind to old epics because, Tokens were not always easy to get.

Producer Rowan made this comparison himself on the Interview with the Devs. Episode if DDOcast.

[Lifespawn]

And I was comparing CoV grind to old epics because, Tokens were not always easy to get.

Producer Rowan made this comparison himself on the Interview with the Devs. Episode if DDOcast.

not easy but much easier than the cov grind and you got the best loot chances in the game by earning the tokens win win

[Oxarhamar]

you seriously need to step out of your own personal bubble and look at how others play.

EE is very easy for you and your group of friends it's the same for me and mine but that being said the vast majority of players not only don't play at that level they actually can't play at that level.

They don't have the best of the best builds that can play most destinies and make each one work.

Lowering the comms needed or making them a little easier to get would make turbine more money than they would lose from powergamers thinking it's too easy and never buying hearts because the non powergamers are a much larger portion of the playerbase.

And I supplied a perfectly valid way of gaining the CoV while leveling in EH.

If There is no work needed to gain a heart they might as we'll be free.

[Lifespawn]

And I supplied a perfectly valid way of gaining the CoV while leveling in EH.

If There is no work needed to gain a heart they might as we'll be free.


Your way is avoiding any and all quests that give decent xp avoiding any slayers or challenges as well as running the same 8-10 quest over and over and still takes well over 3 weeks to do doing nothing but those quests for 3 weeks.......



Do you seriously want to use that leg to support your argument?

[PermaBanned]

why would my sig get me banned i haven't changed it in almost 2 years
I was curious about that sentiment too. My best guess would be that the Shareplz.net link does not lead to a "Free Epic tracker" but actually an advertisement for "cheap Rayban Sunglasses."

[Qhualor]

And I supplied a perfectly valid way of gaining the CoV while leveling in EH.

If There is no work needed to gain a heart they might as we'll be free.

your way is leveling a specific way instead of having everything in the game completely open to us to level how we want to. it means avoiding big xp quests, not taking saga xp until 28, some players like to do slayer and repeat quests for loot, help friends flag for raids or whatever reason. if you want to have 4200 Comms by 28 or soon there after reaching 28, you have to avoid a big portion of the game. im not saying hearts should be free or easy to get, i just want the devs to do what they originally said. yes, i am still holding on to that quote because they still defend it when it is not true at all.

[Lifespawn]

I was curious about that sentiment too. My best guess would be that the Shareplz.net link does not lead to a "Free Epic tracker" but actually an advertisement for "cheap Rayban Sunglasses."


ahh he must not manage the site anymore it used to track the scroll seal shard for the old epics i'll take it out

[Oxarhamar]

Your way is avoiding any and all quests that give decent xp avoiding any slayers or challenges as well as running the same 8-10 quest over and over and still takes well over 3 weeks to do doing nothing but those quests for 3 weeks.......



Do you seriously want to use that leg to support your argument?

You think I was running the same 8 quests over because, that is what your Math supports but, that is not what I posted.

I actually ran all saga quests with to flag up the saga XP to jump into the early levels because a lot if my power comes at 23. yes I avoid XP without CoV that's a personal decision because, I do not want to sit at 28 I want to ETR as soon as I cap. many other players I know still run the big XP quests to cap then farm CoV at 28.

Your 8 quests a day over and over is your fallacy of what I have done to ETR running only EH while leveling.

You keep posting about 20 minutes average for EE that's not what is happening in game for those who play EE. You think we repels the quests that a long once we do them once to flag saga? No we do the quick big payout quests, I mentioned running daily ID & Rusted. Those 3 quests take under 6 minutes including travel time. And when you do the stuff on EH it's even faster.

[Oxarhamar]

your way is leveling a specific way instead of having everything in the game completely open to us to level how we want to. it means avoiding big xp quests, not taking saga xp until 28, some players like to do slayer and repeat quests for loot, help friends flag for raids or whatever reason. if you want to have 4200 Comms by 28 or soon there after reaching 28, you have to avoid a big portion of the game. im not saying hearts should be free or easy to get, i just want the devs to do what they originally said. yes, i am still holding on to that quote because they still defend it when it is not true at all.

That's because, your interpretation of that quote and theirs are different.

Production said himself that it's possible to gain the hearts Running EH at level. Now what he thinks we do in game and what we do differs from player to player.

You want yo run the big XP stuff go ahead do all that big XP stuff but, remember to do it in off destiny so when you cap without enough CoV you can swap to your preferred destiny to farm CoV.

[Lifespawn]

You think I was running the same 8 quests over because, that is what your Math supports but, that is not what I posted.

I actually ran all saga quests with to flag up the saga XP to jump into the early levels because a lot if my power comes at 23. yes I avoid XP without CoV that's a personal decision because, I do not want to sit at 28 I want to ETR as soon as I cap. many other players I know still run the big XP quests to cap then farm CoV at 28.

Your 8 quests a day over and over is your fallacy of what I have done to ETR running only EH while leveling.

You keep posting about 20 minutes average for EE that's not what is happening in game for those who play EE. You think we repels the quests that a long once we do them once to flag saga? No we do the quick big payout quests, I mentioned running daily ID & Rusted. Those 3 quests take under 6 minutes including travel time. And when you do the stuff on EH it's even faster.

6 minutes each sure log in no buffs immediately have a group ready to go thats still only a few quests that are that quick on the payouts trial and maze can both be done in under 20 min together too but thats really the extent of the super fast good payouts 160 or so comms in under an hour and everything else takes longer

so again Average of 20 min per quest in a 2-3 hour time period is too long and that is taking comms every time and not doing other quests that you might like to do

[Oxarhamar]

6 minutes each sure log in no buffs immediately have a group ready to go thats still only a few quests that are that quick on the payouts trial and maze can both be done in under 20 min together too but thats really the extent of the super fast good payouts 160 or so comms in under an hour and everything else takes longer

so again Average of 20 min per quest in a 2-3 hour time period is too long and that is taking comms every time and not doing other quests that you might like to do

Gianthold every one of the walk ups, pop, cabal, and tor can be done under 20 minutes. Even Crucible if you have a swimmer. That's on EE now if you want to talk EH like the original topic then even less time. Putting up an LFM for full Gainthold saga and starting in on a quest generally fills up before the first or second quest is complete.

[Chai]

You guys are highlighting the very issue, by debating the best way to farm another arbitrary currency that was introduced into the game, when the game was advertised for years as the non grind game. You are choosing quests based on what pays out the best CoV over time, rather than playing the quests you want to be playing, which in most cases would result in having to farm at 28 for the heart or pay for it. Its heroic TR all over again - choosing a specific path as a means to an end rather than playing what youd rather be playing for most of your characters life.

[Turbosilk]

tr requirements for a powergamer is 1 night maybe a week for casuals i think that is nicely balanced 2-5 weeks for an etr is not and tokens don't require you to take them over anything else you can still grab loot and guild renown.

I can't make out what you are trying to say here. This looks like several sentences combined into one. Are you saying powergamers TR in 1 night and casuals do a TR in a week? Then you are saying it takes a casual 2-5 weeks to do an eTR? If a casual can TR in a week (3.8 million exp) how does it take up to 5 weeks to get 6.6 million exp when it is way faster to get exp/min in epic content vs heroic content. Using your logic then you think it is acceptable for powergamers to be completionists in 39 days and casuals in 3 months. If powergamers can TR in 1 night then they can easily eTR in 2-3 nights which means they can get eCompletionist in just over a month.

When everyone has everything then nothing is special and when nothing in game is special then no one will play the game. If anything I now think TR and eTR is way to easy to achieve now.

This also isn't a response to my question asking why you aren't complaining about TR tokens.

[Turbosilk]

so again Average of 20 min per quest in a 2-3 hour time period is too long and that is taking comms every time and not doing other quests that you might like to do

What quests take you 20 min per quest?

What is your typical leveling pattern of quests?

[Turbosilk]

You guys are highlighting the very issue, by debating the best way to farm another arbitrary currency that was introduced into the game, when the game was advertised for years as the non grind game. You are choosing quests based on what pays out the best CoV over time, rather than playing the quests you want to be playing, which in most cases would result in having to farm at 28 for the heart or pay for it. Its heroic TR all over again - choosing a specific path as a means to an end rather than playing what youd rather be playing for most of your characters life.

I'm not sure how DDO can be a non grind game with TR, eTR, triple completionist, and ultimate completionist. If you want TRs it's a grind if you perceive playing the game as a grind.

[Gremmlynn]

You guys are highlighting the very issue, by debating the best way to farm another arbitrary currency that was introduced into the game, when the game was advertised for years as the non grind game. You are choosing quests based on what pays out the best CoV over time, rather than playing the quests you want to be playing, which in most cases would result in having to farm at 28 for the heart or pay for it. Its heroic TR all over again - choosing a specific path as a means to an end rather than playing what youd rather be playing for most of your characters life.Personally I just shift some heart seeds from another character to make up the difference. Playing whichever of my 6 epic characters I'm in the mood to play on any particular day makes it work for me.

That said, if I didn't have enough it wouldn't bother me to actually pay Turbine something every once in a while to play their game.

[Powskier]

CoVs do need to be taken a good look at but while it's still this way you guys have to understand that XP is no longer the most important thing in Epics, it's Commendations, we play for CoVs and not for XP.

we're runnin for what? I dont see why we cant get cov's from smthin besides end reward.So now, if I take some guild rewards along the way ,or maybee a nice usefull whepon drop,I need to run 3x the content to get 4200?wow- liberals taking my choices away ,making a Socialist state is in DDO now?

[Gremmlynn]

we're runnin for what? I dont see why we cant get cov's from smthin besides end reward.So now, if I take some guild rewards along the way ,or maybee a nice usefull whepon drop,I need to run 3x the content to get 4200?wow- liberals taking my choices away ,making a Socialist state is in DDO now?How does adding another choice take your choices away? Just looks to me like someone doesn't want choices, they want everything...for free. Kind of like how those socialist states are supposed to work, in theory.

[Powskier]

[QUOTE=Gremmlynn;5325729]How does adding another choice take your choices away?

duh,you cant take both choices at the same time...Obvious the COVs and the players need for them, take away from newer guilds takin the renown reward.I have been taking guild renown often again;F the COVs .

[Ivan_Milic]

6 minutes each sure log in no buffs immediately have a group ready to go thats still only a few quests that are that quick on the payouts trial and maze can both be done in under 20 min together too but thats really the extent of the super fast good payouts 160 or so comms in under an hour and everything else takes longer

so again Average of 20 min per quest in a 2-3 hour time period is too long and that is taking comms every time and not doing other quests that you might like to do

20 min per quest, are you playing a pure bard?
Only quests that should take you that long are madstone and cruc from the quests in saga, not counting shadowfail because I dont have it.

[zwiebelring]

Are we at the point again where people tell others how they should play? There is no such thing as how long an epic elite quest should take. That is, because not everyone in pugs got same game experience/gear/whatever.

[Chai]

I'm not sure how DDO can be a non grind game with TR, eTR, triple completionist, and ultimate completionist. If you want TRs it's a grind if you perceive playing the game as a grind.

That's exactly my point. This game was advertised as the non grind game for 5 years, then they chose to monetize systems instead of content, and now its just another grind game, because that's how systems are monetized.

[Chai]

Personally I just shift some heart seeds from another character to make up the difference. Playing whichever of my 6 epic characters I'm in the mood to play on any particular day makes it work for me.

That said, if I didn't have enough it wouldn't bother me to actually pay Turbine something every once in a while to play their game.

I don't mind paying them too, when they put something out that is worth paying for. Increasing the rate I can acquire power in a game that doesn't create new things I can use that power for fast enough doesn't really require payment. The stick (grind) certainly exists and they made sure of that, but theres not enough carrot (reason to acquire that power in the first place).

In attempting to monetize grind, Turbine makes this games goals similar to other MMOs goals, and moves the game further away from being attractive to the niche market which supported it for so long in the first place. Thus the continued attrition.

[Chauncey1]

I pulled 30+ CoV's from a chest in The Haunted Halls over the weekend, but the party chat said I received a Letter of Commendation...
Is that the same thing?

Also, with the new Thunder Forged items requiring CoV's on top of the 4200 required for ETR'ing, it would be nice if they were a bit more easily attained.
Because I've got handwraps what need awesomizin!

[Lifespawn]

I can't make out what you are trying to say here. This looks like several sentences combined into one. Are you saying powergamers TR in 1 night and casuals do a TR in a week? Then you are saying it takes a casual 2-5 weeks to do an eTR? If a casual can TR in a week (3.8 million exp) how does it take up to 5 weeks to get 6.6 million exp when it is way faster to get exp/min in epic content vs heroic content. Using your logic then you think it is acceptable for powergamers to be completionists in 39 days and casuals in 3 months. If powergamers can TR in 1 night then they can easily eTR in 2-3 nights which means they can get eCompletionist in just over a month.

When everyone has everything then nothing is special and when nothing in game is special then no one will play the game. If anything I now think TR and eTR is way to easy to achieve now.

This also isn't a response to my question asking why you aren't complaining about TR tokens.


this was specifically twords earning tokens versus cov nothing about the xp you have to also get

[Lifespawn]

What quests take you 20 min per quest?

What is your typical leveling pattern of quests?


This is not about me or my ability to zerg quests I can and do EE all the time shortman solo zergfest.

We are not the majority of the player base the majority of players play EH and catering to the 5% of EE zergers that think the cov grind is ok as is not healthy for the game.

[Lifespawn]

20 min per quest, are you playing a pure bard?
Only quests that should take you that long are madstone and cruc from the quests in saga, not counting shadowfail because I dont have it.

If you actually read my posts you would see that this is not how I play but my playstyle is not the way the majority of players do it.

[Ivan_Milic]

So if it takes you longer to finish quest you want to get same amount of covs in same time as someone who finishes quest 2x faster?

[Ivan_Milic]

If you actually read my posts you would see that this is not how I play but my playstyle is not the way the majority of players do it.

So people are slower, they will get covs slower, what is the problem here?

[Lifespawn]

So people are slower, they will get covs slower, what is the problem here?


Slower cov's is an understatement, those of us that can get them by zerging see no problem in it but a normal eh running person looks at the 2-5 weeks it would take them and decides there is no fun in it and moves on that is not good for the game.

[Ivan_Milic]

Slower cov's is an understatement, those of us that can get them by zerging see no problem in it but a normal eh running person looks at the 2-5 weeks it would take them and decides there is no fun in it and moves on that is not good for the game.

I dont understand, you want to etr faster but dont want to do ee?

[Lifespawn]

I dont understand, you want to etr faster but dont want to do ee?



I don't understand what you don't understand the fact that the majority of players run on eh should be the benchmark running EE is harder and should be more rewarding it should not be the measuring stick for cov drop rates.

I PERSONALLY don't care about tring I am not a tr junky looking at the time involved is enough to dissuade me from caring to try I will continue to play the quests I like to play.

Lots and lots of people think/feel/can prove that the cov grind based on the EH statement even running by the amended 3x on hard rate stated by the devs is way too long if the game doesn't keep people interested you will have nobody to argue with on the forums because there won't be anyone left.

[Ivan_Milic]

I don't understand what you don't understand the fact that the majority of players run on eh should be the benchmark running EE is harder and should be more rewarding it should not be the measuring stick for cov drop rates.

I PERSONALLY don't care about tring I am not a tr junky looking at the time involved is enough to dissuade me from caring to try I will continue to play the quests I like to play.

Lots and lots of people think/feel/can prove that the cov grind based on the EH statement even running by the amended 3x on hard rate stated by the devs is way too long if the game doesn't keep people interested you will have nobody to argue with on the forums because there won't be anyone left.

So now all of the sudden people want to believe the dev?
But if dev says anything else people call bull.
Dont worry, cap will raise to 30 and people will be able to get 4.2k covs playing just eh and en.

Should I demand that turbine makes ee raids easier just because I cant solo them?

[Turbosilk]

Slower cov's is an understatement, those of us that can get them by zerging see no problem in it but a normal eh running person looks at the 2-5 weeks it would take them and decides there is no fun in it and moves on that is not good for the game.

So 2 weeks for a normal person to eTR and level from 20 to 28 and get 4200 comms is too long. If 3 days to a week is okay then a normal casual can be a completionist in as little as a month.

Takes way to long for normal players to get raid loot too. Should set it up so you get your pick of a raid item every raid. Handing out rewards with little to no challenge is how you get ppl to play and stay.

[Lifespawn]

So 2 weeks for a normal person to eTR and level from 20 to 28 and get 4200 comms is too long. If 3 days to a week is okay then a normal casual can be a completionist in as little as a month.

Takes way to long for normal players to get raid loot too. Should set it up so you get your pick of a raid item every raid. Handing out rewards with little to no challenge is how you get ppl to play and stay.


Feel free to go play on wayfinder fora glimpse of the future if you don't care about the playstyles of other people.

2 weeks of running the same good payout cov is just boring how do you not see that?

[Turbosilk]

Feel free to go play on wayfinder fora glimpse of the future if you don't care about the playstyles of other people.

2 weeks of running the same good payout cov is just boring how do you not see that?

There is only 1 future for any game in which you give everything away for little to no effort. Your version of the future is solotairesquse. What do you do in game that you consider fun and interesting?

[Qhualor]

So now all of the sudden people want to believe the dev?
But if dev says anything else people call bull.
Dont worry, cap will raise to 30 and people will be able to get 4.2k covs playing just eh and en.

Should I demand that turbine makes ee raids easier just because I cant solo them?

The only people that believe the devs are the ones saying "all is fine" and they post their daily high Comm quest grind to "prove" they are right. Those of us that play through "normal" leveling on EH say "all is not fine". I made the mistake and believed the dev that said you can get most of the Comms through normal at level questing, but the thing is, xp is so easy to get in epics you out level the at level quests. Many people have shown the fault in the math and I have proven it by playing the game the way they said it could be done. If I were able to get 3/4 the Comms by level 28, my stance would be totally opposite.

Not sure why you would use an extreme like not able to solo EE raids when nobody is talking about that.

[Chai]

Lots and lots of people think/feel/can prove that the cov grind based on the EH statement even running by the amended 3x on hard rate stated by the devs is way too long if the game doesn't keep people interested you will have nobody to argue with on the forums because there won't be anyone left.

Yes, this is a large part of the issue right here. The current game is balanced on keeping folks paying to circumvent the "acquisition time sync" or "grind" - but those who pay get stuff very quickly and go on break again, where the folks who dont pay are now subject to a grind that is balanced based on those who do pay. This causes folks who might pay for something else they feel is worthwile, but dont feel paying for grind circumvention is worth it (due to not needing the increased power in the first place since everything can be beaten without it) to attrite at a higher rate.

Folks who actually DO like a high level of grind in their MMO are already playing a different MMO. DDO will have a much harder time competing in that market than it would holding onto its niche crowd base it attracted when it was the "anti grind game" in the past.

[Lifespawn]

There is only 1 future for any game in which you give everything away for little to no effort. Your version of the future is solotairesquse. What do you do in game that you consider fun and interesting?

I like to solo EE quests and Run Haunted Halls along with the raids to craft weapons.

I also like to make lots of off the norm builds and test them.

[shadowowl]

wouldn't mind being able to buy heart seeds from the ddo shop lol I mean if i get to 28 and have say 3500 cov's (35 heart seeds) be nice if I could buy 7 more rather then have to buy the full heart or how ever many I'm short. Often times that seems to be how it goes since I am happy to run quests if a guildie needs it even if I already ran it that day so I might do a crucible EE 2x only get ocmms for it once. or do a Von raid which is high xp and low comm rate the entire idea of the Comms is to promote more questing and less window farming however it also discourages people from helping out friends and guildies if they happen to be offline when you did a particular quest and need help to run it.
not to mention it discourages slayers/explorers since that is a source of huge xp with no comm rewards.
I do run EE almost exclusively but as I stated sometimes I run a quest more then once in a day because I enjoy the game and like to help out friends and guildies if they need help. no point being in a guild if you are going to place the Comms above guildies. But being able to buy seeds would solve this they would not be nearly as expensive as a full heart and you would likely sell more of them. they can't be converted back to comms so no worry about abusing it to use in crafting.
I know this doesn't solve the balancing issue but it would at least make it a little more affordable for those that don't quite get enough comms and want to epic reincarnate sooner.

[Gremmlynn]

I don't mind paying them too, when they put something out that is worth paying for. Increasing the rate I can acquire power in a game that doesn't create new things I can use that power for fast enough doesn't really require payment. The stick (grind) certainly exists and they made sure of that, but theres not enough carrot (reason to acquire that power in the first place). Don't like that particular carrot that much then the grind shouldn't be an issue at all.

[Gremmlynn]

duh,you cant take both choices at the same time...Obvious the COVs and the players need for them, take away from newer guilds takin the renown reward.I have been taking guild renown often again;F the COVs .If you aren't actually choosing how can it be considered a "choice"

What I think you mean is, you don't like that they are a choice rather than an additional reward entitlement.

[Powskier]

wouldn't mind being able to buy heart seeds from the ddo shop lol I mean if i get to 28 and have say 3500 cov's (35 heart seeds) be nice if I could buy 7 more rather then have to buy the full heart or how ever many I'm short. Often times that seems to be how it goes since I am happy to run quests if a guildie needs it even if I already ran it that day so I might do a crucible EE 2x only get ocmms for it once. or do a Von raid which is high xp and low comm rate the entire idea of the Comms is to promote more questing and less window farming however it also discourages people from helping out friends and guildies if they happen to be offline when you did a particular quest and need help to run it.
not to mention it discourages slayers/explorers since that is a source of huge xp with no comm rewards.
I do run EE almost exclusively but as I stated sometimes I run a quest more then once in a day because I enjoy the game and like to help out friends and guildies if they need help. no point being in a guild if you are going to place the Comms above guildies. But being able to buy seeds would solve this they would not be nearly as expensive as a full heart and you would likely sell more of them. they can't be converted back to comms so no worry about abusing it to use in crafting.
I know this doesn't solve the balancing issue but it would at least make it a little more affordable for those that don't quite get enough comms and want to epic reincarnate sooner.

seeds sold in the store would solve alot of the 'shortcommins' .P>S>..id buy an iconic heart if it was same price as epic one,build up for a free one after two lives is fine,just dont charge 200 more cause Im a bladeforge

[Chai]

Don't like that particular carrot that much then the grind shouldn't be an issue at all.

Right, but the end result of that is increased attrition. Im not discussing this at the level of having a personal issue with it, where I voice negative feedback because i dont like it personally. Im voicing more objective business level feedback about why this fails as a business model, and will not stop the fiscal bleeding.

DDO cannot compete in the realm of grind games, but that doesnt stop them from trying. The issue with them trying is it is done at the expense of the niche crowd this game survived on for 6+ years. The shameless p2w crowd doesnt hang around for long after they got what they wanted, and the grind level is completely unreasonable to those who will not pay to circumvent that grind. Those folks might have paid for other stuff however if Turbine made an effort to keep them around, but instead of doing that, they subject them to a grind balanced on folks who are willing to pay for bypassing it. This doesnt work with no carrot at the end for this group of folks because they arent going to pay to attain more power when they can handedly defeat anything they want with the current level of power they already have.

Content focus would alleviate some of this, but instead, they push to monetize more systems for acquisition of unnecessary character power. shouldnt be an issue at all = finding a real grind game if one enjoys grind games, or hanging around here but not participating in unnecessary paid power acquisition and playing for fun. Either way, the more attrition increase this causes, the less money Turbine makes on attempting to emulate other grind games rather than retain their bread and butter niche market which kept them in business in the first place.

[Gremmlynn]

wouldn't mind being able to buy heart seeds from the ddo shop lol I mean if i get to 28 and have say 3500 cov's (35 heart seeds) be nice if I could buy 7 more rather then have to buy the full heart or how ever many I'm short. Often times that seems to be how it goes since I am happy to run quests if a guildie needs it even if I already ran it that day so I might do a crucible EE 2x only get ocmms for it once. or do a Von raid which is high xp and low comm rate the entire idea of the Comms is to promote more questing and less window farming however it also discourages people from helping out friends and guildies if they happen to be offline when you did a particular quest and need help to run it.
not to mention it discourages slayers/explorers since that is a source of huge xp with no comm rewards.
I do run EE almost exclusively but as I stated sometimes I run a quest more then once in a day because I enjoy the game and like to help out friends and guildies if they need help. no point being in a guild if you are going to place the Comms above guildies. But being able to buy seeds would solve this they would not be nearly as expensive as a full heart and you would likely sell more of them. they can't be converted back to comms so no worry about abusing it to use in crafting.
I know this doesn't solve the balancing issue but it would at least make it a little more affordable for those that don't quite get enough comms and want to epic reincarnate sooner.The fact that they don't sell them is something I can't understand. It probably has to do with the ease at which free TPs can be acquired or the TP stipend that VIPs get though. As in, they don't want players buying them every time they get a few TPs burning a hole in their pockets. So they only sell them in lots with a cost larger than what most players accumulate before they feel the urge to buy something with it.

[HAL]

duh,you cant take both choices at the same time...Obvious the COVs and the players need for them, take away from newer guilds takin the renown reward.

This is one thing I have objected to from the introduction of CoVs - that you have to choose them as a reward in place of a normal quest or Saga reward. Heroic Reincarnation tokens are given in addition to normal rewards, why do CoVs need to take the place of rewards?

I think that people fail to add this into the equation when determining how difficult they should be to get. I don't want to spend my time in Epic quests only taking CoVs.

[Ivan_Milic]

The only people that believe the devs are the ones saying "all is fine" and they post their daily high Comm quest grind to "prove" they are right. Those of us that play through "normal" leveling on EH say "all is not fine". I made the mistake and believed the dev that said you can get most of the Comms through normal at level questing, but the thing is, xp is so easy to get in epics you out level the at level quests. Many people have shown the fault in the math and I have proven it by playing the game the way they said it could be done. If I were able to get 3/4 the Comms by level 28, my stance would be totally opposite.

Not sure why you would use an extreme like not able to solo EE raids when nobody is talking about that.

Because I cant solo ee raids, you cant get covs faster than me.
Some people can do whatever, some cant.

[Gremmlynn]

Content focus would alleviate some of this, but instead, they push to monetize more systems for acquisition of unnecessary character power. shouldnt be an issue at all = finding a real grind game if one enjoys grind games, or hanging around here but not participating in unnecessary paid power acquisition and plaing for fun. Either way, the more attrition increase this causes, the less money Turbine makes on attempting to emulate other grind games rather than retain their bread and butter niche market which kept them in business in the first place.How do you expect content focus to work for them? If that was ever an option, it went away with the introduction of easy TR and the way it resets favor (and the ability to re-earn TP's every life). Content focus and niche market don't go really good together as one requires selling lots of copies of new content to bring down the per unit cost of developing it and the other limits those sales to the niche they are targeting.

Consumable sales are really the only way they can make it work and TR hearts are consumables.

Personally I don't think it's a matter of how they want to monetize things, but how they have to monetize them. It really doesn't matter how many players they retain, if losing money is what it takes to retain them.

[Gremmlynn]

This is one thing I have objected to from the introduction of CoVs - that you have to choose them as a reward in place of a normal quest or Saga reward. Heroic Reincarnation tokens are given in addition to normal rewards, why do CoVs need to take the place of rewards?

I think that people fail to add this into the equation when determining how difficult they should be to get. I don't want to spend my time in Epic quests only taking CoVs.This is likely something they could give in on as players choosing something else probably isn't worth the grief they take from those who feel they can't take something else. Might have to find a way to shoe horn this ability into the end rewards mechanics, as not being able to pass them was likely what the major goal of it was, though.

[Lifespawn]

This is likely something they could give in on as players choosing something else probably isn't worth the grief they take from those who feel they can't take something else. Might have to find a way to shoe horn this ability into the end rewards mechanics, as not being able to pass them was likely what the major goal of it was, though.

Granting them at completion like challenges do for ingredients would solve that problem also making the rewards scale based on kills/breakable/traps done would give the best for both parties.

Slightly more comms for flower sniffers to do every objective with still good payouts for zergers.

[Gremmlynn]

Granting them at completion like challenges do for ingredients would solve that problem also making the rewards scale based on kills/breakable/traps done would give the best for both parties.

Slightly more comms for flower sniffers to do every objective with still good payouts for zergers.Sounds good to me.

Though something tells me the system is working for Turbine. I just can't see DDO being around for 8 years and Turbine for a lot longer than that if they were this slow at making a change as simple as this to something that isn't working for them. Just an observation, not some sort of endorsement.

[PermaBanned]

Might have to find a way to shoe horn this ability into the end rewards mechanics, as not being able to pass them was likely what the major goal of it was, though.

^This^

I'm pretty sure "EN Devils Assault: Free Loot, plz pass CoVs" was something they actively tried to avoid.

A mechanic like what's in place for the Sands flagging quests or Xoriat Cipher where they simply pop into your inventory on exiting from a (completed) quest would be nice.

[Lifespawn]

Sounds good to me.

Though something tells me the system is working for Turbine. I just can't see DDO being around for 8 years and Turbine for a lot longer than that if they were this slow at making a change as simple as this to something that isn't working for them. Just an observation, not some sort of endorsement.


shard seal scroll comes to mind

[Gremmlynn]

shard seal scroll comes to mindShard seal scroll was great for when it was end game, just as green steel was when it was end game. Something to give players at the cap a reason to keep playing. With the advent of epic levels it mostly became obsolete though. Likely deemed not worth the effort to tone down due to the disparity of power between many of the items making a simple across the board drop upgrade untenable. I know I pretty much abandoned the whole thing when I was given something more productive to do.

This is actually a problem with the system they chose to use with cap changes. Or more accurately maybe, the lack of having a system in place to do so. This is actually something of a weak spot in Turbine's method IMO. They don't seem to have an overall plan as to where the game will go and add things in a way that fits that plan. They seem to look back and try to fill holes in the game instead.

[Oxarhamar]

Shard seal scroll was great for when it was end game, just as green steel was when it was end game. Something to give players at the cap a reason to keep playing. With the advent of epic levels it mostly became obsolete though. Likely deemed not worth the effort to tone down due to the disparity of power between many of the items making a simple across the board drop upgrade untenable. I know I pretty much abandoned the whole thing when I was given something more productive to do.

This is actually a problem with the system they chose to use with cap changes. Or more accurately maybe, the lack of having a system in place to do so. This is actually something of a weak spot in Turbine's method IMO. They don't seem to have an overall plan as to where the game will go and add things in a way that fits that plan. They seem to look back and try to fill holes in the game instead.

Shard/seal/scroll system never interested me I was much happier to get my tokens and TR. Playing epic quests where the only progress was a chance at getting the right bits to make an item. I had many a friend in game stay at cap continually running EVon5+6 EADQ, ECHRONO every 3 days ERedfens to ransack over and over. Some over 100 completions waiting only for a shard.

Yeah no thanks to that. it's funny you think the no progress hope for the bits to make an item is better than CoV.

[Oxarhamar]

The fact that they don't sell them is something I can't understand. It probably has to do with the ease at which free TPs can be acquired or the TP stipend that VIPs get though. As in, they don't want players buying them every time they get a few TPs burning a hole in their pockets. So they only sell them in lots with a cost larger than what most players accumulate before they feel the urge to buy something with it.

Adding seeds to the store wouldn't be a bad idea.

You have to remember seeds we're not in the original plan and were a work around added to help players with multiple characters gets hearts since CoV and Hearts are BTC and they did not want to change that so after player outcry we got seeds BTA.

[Gremmlynn]

Shard/seal/scroll system never interested me I was much happier to get my tokens and TR. Playing epic quests where the only progress was a chance at getting the right bits to make an item. I had many a friend in game stay at cap continually running EVon5+6 EADQ, ECHRONO every 3 days ERedfens to ransack over and over. Some over 100 completions waiting only for a shard.

Yeah no thanks to that. it's funny you think the no progress hope for the bits to make an item is better than CoV.It would seem a few of your friends would agree with that as they chose it over the TR hamster wheel. Just shows that people are different.

As far as feeling s/s/s is better than COV's, I don't remember making a comparison. All I said was that s/s/s was a good system for giving players something to do at end game. TR was another that appealed to other players. Personally, I never really got into to either very much as altoholism was my personal answer to keeping the game fresh.

[Turbosilk]

Here is my no set path ahead of time path I took to 4200 comms from 20 to 28 with mostly EH quests and some EN quests.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441738-A-4200-Comms-Path-from-20-to-28