Ranger (9), monk (6), wizard (5). Some help please.

[Texturace]

Just a disclaimer, I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this so mods please move this if it's in the wrong spot.


So i almost have enough tokens to TR, yay, but i don't know what build to do next. I definitely want a monk archer, but the build itself is the tricky part. ThIs life, I'm a pure 20 monk. I want a ranger past life so ranger would have to be the highest stat. I'm thinking of starting of 5 wizard for the permanent tenser's transformation. 6 Monk gives me the second level stances and i end with 9 ranger. I know I'm missing out on improved evasion, but I want ranger PL. Any class leveling order suggestions or level redistribution?

Oh a few more things, I'm planning on going half elf with rogue dilettante. However, I'm open to suggestions

[Coyopa]

Well, I would recommend going at least 11 ranger because you get Improved Precise Shot for free. This makes you much more potent as an archer and, if you opt not to take IPS, then you really are gimping your build. Also, rangers get the feat for free without having to have a 19 dexterity. So, while you can get it without going 11 ranger, it imposes a high dexterity requirement. I've not yet built (and probably will not build) a monkcher and so I don't know how high a dex these characters end up with.

As far as 6 monk goes, that's a good plan because you get Adept of Forms for free. If you take the monk levels early enough, you can also get Master and Grandmaster of Forms (depending how much you wish to invest, feat-wise). I have a 12 ranger/7 monk/1 rogue that runs in the Fire Grandmaster stance for the 25% healing amp from Jidz-Tet'ka. I am not sure what stance would most benefit a monkcher, but I could see earth stance or possibly wind stance, both of which get a big bump by taking Master of Forms.

I can't see there being enough synergy to take 5 levels of wizard just so you can spend 30 to get Tenser's Transformation without having to scroll it. I also cannot see how you'll end up having 30 AP to waste in the Eldritch Knight tree to get that enhancement - which you will not even be able to get until character level 12. Most of what you'd get from the EK tree is going to be pointless on a monkcher. I would suggest to go poking around https://www.ddo.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/21-Classes and its sub-forums to find a good monkcher build to start from. Remember that you need to focus on ranged attack speed, ranged attack damage, and doubleshot percentage, among other things. Eldritch Knight does not offer enough synergy to make 5 wizard worthwhile.

Consider 12 ranger/6 monk/2 fighter. Taking the 12th level of ranger gets you a second third level spell, one of which will be Cure Moderate Wounds. On my 12/7/1 ranger/monk/rogue above, I took Cure Moderate Wounds and Neutralize Poison because potions of neutralize poison do not offer the short-lived immunity the spell does. Having CMW will help your self-healing abilities a bit. Two levels of fighter gets you two feats for free. I would probably level in one of these orders:

Option 1: Ranger, Monk (2nd through 7th levels), Ranger (8th through 14th levels), Fighter, Fighter, Ranger (to 20)
Option 2: Ranger, Monk (2nd through 7th levels), Ranger (8th through 14th levels), Fighter, Ranger (16th and 17th level), Fighter, Ranger (to 20)
Option 3: Ranger (1st through 6th levels), Monk (7th through 12th levels), Ranger (13th and 14th level), Fighter, FIghter, Ranger (to 20)
Option 4: Ranger (1st through 6th levels), Monk (7th through 12th levels), Ranger (13th and 14th level), Fighter, Ranger (16th and 17th level), Fighter, Ranger (to 20)

Personally, I like options 3 and 4 the best because this lets you get some ranger levels under your belt and opens up the trees for you. Monk 7th to 12th levels enables you to take Master of Forms at level 12 at the same time you get Adept of Forms, giving you a really big upgrade to your stance. Late fighter levels ensure you have the base attack bonus for whatever bonus feat you want to take. Fighters can get Improved Critical as a bonus feat. You'll need Zen Archery somewhere along the way to stay centered while using bows, but this can be taken as a monk bonus feat at Monk Level 1, Monk Level 2, or Monk Level 6. You are also going to need Ten Thousand Stars (unless this has changed recently) and this can be taken as the monk bonus feat at Monk Level 6. So, I would plan to get Zen Archery probably right at level 7 (Monk Level 1) and that way it is out of the way.

This is pretty much all the information I have for you and all the advice I can offer. You are going to have to search the forums and ask advice from others who have built these characters and are therefore more knowledgeable about them than I.

[Coyopa]

When it comes to race, the half-elf dilettante feat isn't going to be worth much because you won't be able to do traps and you will likely be outside of sneak attack range, rendering the sneak damage moot - which it mostly is anyway since it's just 1d6 sneak damage. Yes, you can get extended sneak attack range with Deepwood Sniper, but you'll probably be mostly investing in Arcane Archer and it is not likely you'll end up with many AP left over for Deepwood Sniper.

I would say either take human for the extra feat at level 1 (and the extra skill point every level) or go elf for the elven enhancements that add to your longbow or shortbow damage (you choose) and the possibility of using dexterity to damage for these weapons, as well. Longswords are paired with longbows in the elf racial tree. So, if you go longbow and longsword, you can take Weapon Focus: Slashing and Whirling Steel Strike to stay centered with longswords (if this interests you, but I can honestly say you shouldn't do this because it costs too much even though it adds flavor). Shortbows are paired with scimitars, rapiers and shortswords and this might be a better choice if you want to use armed combat instead of unarmed combat. This is because Ninja Spy enhancements let you stay centered with shortswords and that does not cost you any feats (and you'll probably get this anyway, making it free to you).

[Ivan_Milic]

Well, I would recommend going at least 11 ranger because you get Improved Precise Shot for free. This makes you much more potent as an archer and, if you opt not to take IPS, then you really are gimping your build. Also, rangers get the feat for free without having to have a 19 dexterity. So, while you can get it without going 11 ranger, it imposes a high dexterity requirement. I've not yet built (and probably will not build) a monkcher and so I don't know how high a dex these characters end up with.


You gonna need 21 dex for combat archery.
Idk if he will play epics or not, if he doesnt want to play epics then going twf will be better.

[Coyopa]

You gonna need 21 dex for combat archery.
Idk if he will play epics or not, if he doesnt want to play epics then going twf will be better.

This is a good point about Combat Archery and something I was not thinking of when I wrote my posts. So, thank you for pointing it out because it would suck for him to get there and then discover he is short on dexterity. I doubt whether he decides to play into the epic levels will change his mind much on being a ranged character since he specifically stated he wants a monkcher. Still, solid advice on your part.

[Texturace]

Okay so I see how much of a waste wizard would be and that it works great if you just get Tenser's for free w/o needing to invest any AP. How would I not be in sneak attack range? Monkchers still need to melee. In addition I don't really care about the ranger spells, sure there's some nice utility, but I see the main value being at ranger level 8. 6 monk is definately great for the extra stances, I would assume to hit grandmaster you would need to take 1 level of monk a bit later, and FYI it's mostly Ocean/Mountain Stance on monkchers. I'm going to go Ocean stance probably. However with 8 ranger 6 monk, there's 6 levels left. You made a great point about the improved precise shot, I probably wouldn't have any issues (+3 tome on all stats, loot is OP), but the free feat is nice. The rogue dilletante again would only be for sneak attack damage and I probably won't invest too heavily into any one tree. For example on my Shintao Monk atm I got a bunch of "useless" enchantments just to unlock the higher level ones and even then I only grabbed 1 or 2. So I'll take another look at the deepwood sniper range for SA, but the fact that 30-40% of the time I'll be wailing on them with handwraps means that it can help a lot. One thing you also forgot to mention was come level 11 there's also Greater Two Weapon Fighting. So that means I'm definitely getting 11 ranger. 11 ranger, 6 monk, 3 left. Now I don't think I'll have the character stat points available to make last the last 3 levels in rogue or artificer (something with utility like that useful). And looking now with Imp. Evasion at level 9, it should definitely be 11 Ranger, 9 Monk, so does anyone know any good places to look or any guidelines to follow?

[Texturace]

You gonna need 21 dex for combat archery.
Idk if he will play epics or not, if he doesnt want to play epics then going twf will be better.

I'm think of the stat points being 16 Str (-10 points), 15 Dex (-8), 14 con (-6), 16 Wis (-10). This gives 34 points which I will have when TR'ing.

I have +3 Tomes for All Stats.

19 Str, 18 Dex, 17 con, 19 wis, (11 int and cha)

the 11 int also gives me the combat tactics or whatever for improved trip/sunder.

Now I would only need 3 dex, and as a half elf, I can get the free dexterity in the elven stat bonus tree and in some of the ranger trees if I'm not mistaken. The worst case scenario would be putting a level up into dex to get combat archery. I have no problem with Epics, I find them amazingly fun. Currently 20 Monk 4 Epic. So like I mentioned earlier 11 Ranger 9 Monk seems like the way to go. Gives Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Evasion, Improved Precise Shot. Those are all huge things. So do you have any ideas from there?

Thanks in Advance

[Ivan_Milic]

Okay so I see how much of a waste wizard would be and that it works great if you just get Tenser's for free w/o needing to invest any AP. How would I not be in sneak attack range? Monkchers still need to melee. In addition I don't really care about the ranger spells, sure there's some nice utility, but I see the main value being at ranger level 8. 6 monk is definately great for the extra stances, I would assume to hit grandmaster you would need to take 1 level of monk a bit later, and FYI it's mostly Ocean/Mountain Stance on monkchers. I'm going to go Ocean stance probably. However with 8 ranger 6 monk, there's 6 levels left. You made a great point about the improved precise shot, I probably wouldn't have any issues (+3 tome on all stats, loot is OP), but the free feat is nice. The rogue dilletante again would only be for sneak attack damage and I probably won't invest too heavily into any one tree. For example on my Shintao Monk atm I got a bunch of "useless" enchantments just to unlock the higher level ones and even then I only grabbed 1 or 2. So I'll take another look at the deepwood sniper range for SA, but the fact that 30-40% of the time I'll be wailing on them with handwraps means that it can help a lot. One thing you also forgot to mention was come level 11 there's also Greater Two Weapon Fighting. So that means I'm definitely getting 11 ranger. 11 ranger, 6 monk, 3 left. Now I don't think I'll have the character stat points available to make last the last 3 levels in rogue or artificer (something with utility like that useful). And looking now with Imp. Evasion at level 9, it should definitely be 11 Ranger, 9 Monk, so does anyone know any good places to look or any guidelines to follow?

Monkchers dont melee.

[Ivan_Milic]

I'm think of the stat points being 16 Str (-10 points), 15 Dex (-8), 14 con (-6), 16 Wis (-10). This gives 34 points which I will have when TR'ing.

I have +3 Tomes for All Stats.

19 Str, 18 Dex, 17 con, 19 wis, (11 int and cha)

the 11 int also gives me the combat tactics or whatever for improved trip/sunder.

Now I would only need 3 dex, and as a half elf, I can get the free dexterity in the elven stat bonus tree and in some of the ranger trees if I'm not mistaken. The worst case scenario would be putting a level up into dex to get combat archery. I have no problem with Epics, I find them amazingly fun. Currently 20 Monk 4 Epic. So like I mentioned earlier 11 Ranger 9 Monk seems like the way to go. Gives Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Evasion, Improved Precise Shot. Those are all huge things. So do you have any ideas from there?

Thanks in Advance

You need 21 base dex for combat archery, that means only points you put in dex and tomes count, dex from enhancements dont count.
You dont need improved evasion, should have great saves with this build, so can go 11 ranger, 6 monk and 3 whatever, pally for saves, or fighter for dmg.

[Coyopa]

Okay so I see how much of a waste wizard would be and that it works great if you just get Tenser's for free w/o needing to invest any AP. How would I not be in sneak attack range? Monkchers still need to melee. In addition I don't really care about the ranger spells, sure there's some nice utility, but I see the main value being at ranger level 8. 6 monk is definately great for the extra stances, I would assume to hit grandmaster you would need to take 1 level of monk a bit later, and FYI it's mostly Ocean/Mountain Stance on monkchers. I'm going to go Ocean stance probably. However with 8 ranger 6 monk, there's 6 levels left. You made a great point about the improved precise shot, I probably wouldn't have any issues (+3 tome on all stats, loot is OP), but the free feat is nice. The rogue dilletante again would only be for sneak attack damage and I probably won't invest too heavily into any one tree. For example on my Shintao Monk atm I got a bunch of "useless" enchantments just to unlock the higher level ones and even then I only grabbed 1 or 2. So I'll take another look at the deepwood sniper range for SA, but the fact that 30-40% of the time I'll be wailing on them with handwraps means that it can help a lot. One thing you also forgot to mention was come level 11 there's also Greater Two Weapon Fighting. So that means I'm definitely getting 11 ranger. 11 ranger, 6 monk, 3 left. Now I don't think I'll have the character stat points available to make last the last 3 levels in rogue or artificer (something with utility like that useful). And looking now with Imp. Evasion at level 9, it should definitely be 11 Ranger, 9 Monk, so does anyone know any good places to look or any guidelines to follow?

Maybe you will be sneak attack range, then. However, the point still stands that half elf for rogue dilettante (well, really, any dilettante) is pointless. 1d6 sneak damage is nothing and certainly not worth giving up the benefits of being any other race than half elf - particularly human or elf, which are the two races I would choose between were I to build this myself.

You can scroll Tenser's if you get a high enough UMD, but going wizard and spending all those AP is a bad choice.

The main value in ranger is ranger level 11 where you get greater two weapon fighting and improved precise shot for free. The fact you also get Cure Moderate Wounds is a bonus. Furthermore, by going at least 10 levels of ranger, you get an additional favored enemy, which grants you an extra +2 damage against both of your previously selected favored enemies and against your Ranger Level 10 selected enemy. You need to visit http://ddowiki.com/page/Ranger and learn a bit more about rangers before you so quickly dismiss the value of the extra levels.

You do not need to take more than 6 levels of monk. Really, you only need to take 1 level of monk and you can choose Adept of Forms at character level 6 (and later), Master of Forms at character level 12 (and later), and Grandmaster of Forms at character level 18 (and later). So, with a 6 level investment in monk, you get Adept of Forms for free, three martial feats, and you can still choose Master and Grandmaster of Forms as feats at 12+ and 18+, respectively. If you are in Ocean stance, then your ki regeneration will be higher and you will not need to melee as much - meaning you may not stay in sneak attack range. I have a 25 monk in GM Ocean Stance (primarily) who has 445 maximum ki and can stand around doing nothing and still regenerate ki until he has 93% of that (~413 ki of 445 ki for those of you following along at home). His maximum ki regeneration rate (when his current ki is lower than his concentration skill score) is +9.

I cannot express clearly enough that 1d6 sneak attack damage is basically nothing. Unless you really make some kind of investment to get sneak damage up, by going halfling and/or by investing heavily into Deepwood Sniper, then 1d6 sneak damage by itself is not worth the feat.

Also, you don't need Improved Evasion. You'll probably need the feats from fighter, however. Anyway, do some research and some learning about the classes you plan to mix and you'll be able to get a build together that suits you.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Monk
http://ddowiki.com/page/Fighter

[Texturace]

You need 21 base dex for combat archery, that means only points you put in dex and tomes count, dex from enhancements dont count.
You dont need improved evasion, should have great saves with this build, so can go 11 ranger, 6 monk and 3 whatever, pally for saves, or fighter for dmg.

could you show me a sample build to see exactly where the saves are at to see what I'd want?

[EDIT] I'm thinking just paladin to have insane saves

[Ivan_Milic]

Maybe you will be sneak attack range, then. However, the point still stands that half elf for rogue dilettante (well, really, any dilettante) is pointless. 1d6 sneak damage is nothing and certainly not worth giving up the benefits of being any other race than half elf - particularly human or elf, which are the two races I would choose between were I to build this myself.

You can scroll Tenser's if you get a high enough UMD, but going wizard and spending all those AP is a bad choice.

The main value in ranger is ranger level 11 where you get greater two weapon fighting and improved precise shot for free. The fact you also get Cure Moderate Wounds is a bonus. Furthermore, by going at least 10 levels of ranger, you get an additional favored enemy, which grants you an extra +2 damage against both of your previously selected favored enemies and against your Ranger Level 10 selected enemy. You need to visit http://ddowiki.com/page/Ranger and learn a bit more about rangers before you so quickly dismiss the value of the extra levels.

You do not need to take more than 6 levels of monk. Really, you only need to take 1 level of monk and you can choose Adept of Forms at character level 6 (and later), Master of Forms at character level 12 (and later), and Grandmaster of Forms at character level 18 (and later). So, with a 6 level investment in monk, you get Adept of Forms for free, three martial feats, and you can still choose Master and Grandmaster of Forms as feats at 12+ and 18+, respectively. If you are in Ocean stance, then your ki regeneration will be higher and you will not need to melee as much - meaning you may not stay in sneak attack range. I have a 25 monk in GM Ocean Stance (primarily) who has 445 maximum ki and can stand around doing nothing and still regenerate ki until he has 93% of that (~413 ki of 445 ki for those of you following along at home). His maximum ki regeneration rate (when his current ki is lower than his concentration skill score) is +9.

I cannot express clearly enough that 1d6 sneak attack damage is basically nothing. Unless you really make some kind of investment to get sneak damage up, by going halfling and/or by investing heavily into Deepwood Sniper, then 1d6 sneak damage by itself is not worth the feat.

Also, you don't need Improved Evasion. You'll probably need the feats from fighter, however. Anyway, do some research and some learning about the classes you plan to mix and you'll be able to get a build together that suits you.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Monk
http://ddowiki.com/page/Fighter

Grandmaster isnt worth it, you can get a lot of sneak attack damage from ninja spy tree.
Why do people think monkchers melee?

[Ivan_Milic]

could you show me a sample build to see exactly where the saves are at to see what I'd want?

I dont know if there is a build like that on forums, you will have to look, but I have a build from a friend, 11 rgr/6 mnk/3 ftr, has saves around 50 in mountain stance at lvl 28.

[Coyopa]

I'm think of the stat points being 16 Str (-10 points), 15 Dex (-8), 14 con (-6), 16 Wis (-10). This gives 34 points which I will have when TR'ing.

Monkchers need high wisdom and high dexterity. Every character needs high con (which you have not neglected, I'm just pointing it out). Ivan has made the point about Combat Archery and he is right. Also, he is again right that monkchers don't melee, as a rule. There may be times you will, but only to build up enough ki for Ten Thousand Stars or some other monk ability.


the 11 int also gives me the combat tactics or whatever for improved trip/sunder.

LOL! Combat Expertise? Really? Pfff. Improved Trip and Sunder? Again. Pfff. You won't be using these and they are going to be a waste of feat (or feats).


Now I would only need 3 dex, and as a half elf, I can get the free dexterity in the elven stat bonus tree and in some of the ranger trees if I'm not mistaken. The worst case scenario would be putting a level up into dex to get combat archery. I have no problem with Epics, I find them amazingly fun. Currently 20 Monk 4 Epic. So like I mentioned earlier 11 Ranger 9 Monk seems like the way to go. Gives Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Evasion, Improved Precise Shot. Those are all huge things. So do you have any ideas from there?

Thanks in Advance

As already pointed out by Ivan, dexterity acquired from enhancements does not count toward qualifying you for feats. The same is true for any stat benefiting from enhancements. I cannot stress this enough and so I am going to put it in bold, underline it and italicize it: Three extra levels of monk offers you NOTHING. However, a 12th level of ranger gives you access to another core enhancement in whichever tree(s) you invest, as well as another 3rd level spell. Two levels of fighter gives you two extra feats - which you are highly likely to need. Even if you don't need the feats, two levels of paladin would be a better choice than 2 extra levels of monk.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

nm

[Ivan_Milic]

Monkchers need high wisdom and high dexterity. Every character needs high con (which you have not neglected, I'm just pointing it out). Ivan has made the point about Combat Archery and he is right. Also, he is again right that monkchers don't melee, as a rule. There may be times you will, but only to build up enough ki for Ten Thousand Stars or some other monk ability.




You will have ki regeneration from contemplation, monkchers dont melee.
YOu need 21 dex, thats it, depending on what gear and pl you have you can dump con to 10, but this is only for people with completionist or more than one primal epl.

[Texturace]

So I'm leaning towards 11 R - 6 M - 3 Paladin, but why won't monkchers melee at all? Wouldn't there be some points where you have to? And wouldn't grandmaster ocean stance be like a million times better than adept ocean stance? In addition with bow strength AND the offchance that I might melee, wouldn't it be better to have a higher strength, or atleast a strength decent with the -2 from Ocean stance?

I think another big question would be, where would the BAB be. With many shot you'd want 16+ for four arrow right? So would paladin give me enough BAB or would I need the fighter to get it?

[Ivan_Milic]

So I'm leaning towards 11 R - 6 M - 3 Paladin, but why won't monkchers melee at all? Wouldn't there be some points where you have to? And wouldn't grandmaster ocean stance be like a million times better than adept ocean stance? In addition with bow strength AND the offchance that I might melee, wouldn't it be better to have a higher strength, or atleast a strength decent with the -2 from Ocean stance?

Because you are cycling through 10k and manyshot, you dont have time to melee, or you are gimping your dps.
Adept of forms is given automatically at monk lvl 6, after you get it you take master of forms, grandmaster doesnt give you that much over master.
Yes, you need high str.

You will have enough bab in epics.

[Coyopa]

So I'm leaning towards 11 R - 6 M - 3 Paladin, but why won't monkchers melee at all? Wouldn't there be some points where you have to?

The only reason they would need to melee is to build ki, but with GM Ocean Stance this is not needed (which is why I had previously said "may").


And wouldn't grandmaster ocean stance be like a million times better than adept ocean stance?

Yes, this is why I recommended 6 levels of monk from 7 to 12 (because you can take Master of Forms right away at level 12, then, since you get Adept of Forms for free) and fighter at 15 and 18 (because at 18 you can get Grandmaster of Forms and still take some other martial feat that you might need). The level of fighter at 15 lets you take two feats then, too. You do not need any more monk than 6 levels to achieve this. As I previously stated, you really only need ONE level of monk and you can *still* get Grandmaster of Forms at character level 18. Please note: There is a difference between "character level" and "class level". As long as your character is 18 in any combination of classes (one being monk), you can take Grandmaster of Forms (provided you already have Adept and Master).

[Texturace]

Because you are cycling through 10k and manyshot, you dont have time to melee, or you are gimping your dps.
Adept of forms is given automatically at monk lvl 6, after you get it you take master of forms, grandmaster doesnt give you that much over master.
Yes, you need high str.

Even cycling through those 2, wouldn't I only have something up 30 seconds out of a minute, or have both those on back to back so 1 minute out of 2? Wouldn't that mean half the time my ranged DPS is lacking anyways?
Grandmaster Ocean Stance over Master = +1 wis, +1% dodge, +1 to all saving throws. Wouldn't those all be of use in just being able to survive? Wouldn't the extra wisdom itself be worth it? Again I'm still relatively new.

Sorry about sounding really skeptical, trying to get everything right in my head first.

[Texturace]

The only reason they would need to melee is to build ki, but with GM Ocean Stance this is not needed (which is why I had previously said "may").



Yes, this is why I recommended 6 levels of monk from 7 to 12 (because you can take Master of Forms right away at level 12, then, since you get Adept of Forms for free) and fighter at 15 and 18 (because at 18 you can get Grandmaster of Forms and still take some other martial feat that you might need). The level of fighter at 15 lets you take two feats then, too. You do not need any more monk than 6 levels to achieve this. As I previously stated, you really only need ONE level of monk and you can *still* get Grandmaster of Forms at character level 18. Please note: There is a difference between "character level" and "class level". As long as your character is 18 in any combination of classes (one being monk), you can take Grandmaster of Forms (provided you already have Adept and Master).



You are going to melee so rarely and be so specialized into ranged combat that no, high strength is not going to help. Besides, if you opt for the elf race, you can get dexterity to damage on bows. -2 strength from Ocean stance is, in the end, irrelevant. You simply will not miss it.

Half-Elf was what I was thinking, not elf, I said the elf enchantment line for Dex earlier

[Ivan_Milic]

If you want to do good dps, you will need high str.

[TheLegendOfAra]

Why do people think monkchers melee?

Mine does. It does it extremely well in fact. It does not gimp it's DPS when it's not ranged.
If someone wants to melee on a monkcher with the 11Ranger/6Monk/3whatever split that's perfectly fine. I've done it on 3 lives.
Hell, I also melee'd quite a bit on my 12Monk/6Ranger/2Paladin Monkcher. And did pretty well. There are builds in the class forums that are for exactly this.

People on these forums need to get over this idea that monkchers can only use a bow, and can't melee at all. It's absurd.

[Coyopa]

Half-Elf was what I was thinking, not elf, I said the elf enchantment line for Dex earlier

I know you said half elf earlier, and I have stated that half elf is not worth it for the dilettante feat. However, I had recommended the possibility of elf for the dex to damage enhancement line. From what Ivan is saying, I would just ignore elf and go either half orc (for more strength) or human (for an extra feat, healing amplification, and an extra skill point).

[Ivan_Milic]

Probably why I see so many gimp monkchers.
If you have iconics, pdk is good.

[Texturace]

So now let me get this point out

Since I've decided on 11 Ranger, 6 Monk, 3 Paladin (not too too concerned with the feat # )

Where would the actual levels go. I know I want one early level of monk to rush through the early quests with ease. Then I can do say 7-12 monk for Grandmaster. Should I go 1 monk, 2-7 Ranger, 8-12 monk, but I don't know how to level from here. Do i just grab all 3 paladins all at once and then finish with Ranger? DO i grab 1 or 2 fill with ranger and put last level or 2 into paladin? Some help there?

[EDIT since I now just saw some posts] I wouldn't mind Half-Orc either. The big deal would be I would get very few skill points.

[TheLegendOfAra]

So now let me get this point out

Since I've decided on 11 Ranger, 6 Monk, 3 Paladin (not too too concerned with the feat # )

Where would the actual levels go. I know I want one early level of monk to rush through the early quests with ease. Then I can do say 7-12 monk for Grandmaster. Should I go 1 monk, 2-7 Ranger, 8-12 monk, but I don't know how to level from here. Do i just grab all 3 paladins all at once and then finish with Ranger? DO i grab 1 or 2 fill with ranger and put last level or 2 into paladin? Some help there?

[EDIT since I now just saw some posts] I wouldn't mind Half-Orc either. The big deal would be I would get very few skill points.

Half-Orc would be a pretty horrible choice for a fleshy. They just don't offer any bonus's to a monkchers playstyle. Even one that melee's.
Human, Halfling, or Elf are the only decent fleshy choices, with Bladeforged either being better/just behind these depending on your views.

I would suggest Human, or Halfling for better saves, more skill points, and the best heals you'll get as a fleshy.
Half elf is meh at best now, since Dilletante's are so expensive now.

Human gets you heal amp, while halfling will get you actually heal spells.
Both of these will get you some sneak attack as well.

Level order is a toss up based on your stats and when you will have the requirements for each feat, but on a simple monkcher template without being to MAD, I'd say go 1Ranger/2Monk/2Paladin/4Monk/5Ranger/1Paladin/5Ranger. Or something similar anyways.

[Coyopa]

Half-Orc would be a pretty horrible choice for a fleshy. They just don't offer any bonus's to a monkchers playstyle. Even one that melee's.
Human, Halfling, or Elf are the only decent fleshy choices, with Bladeforged either being better/just behind these depending on your views.

I would suggest Human, or Halfling for better saves, more skill points, and the best heals you'll get as a fleshy.
Half elf is meh at best now, since Dilletante's are so expensive now.

Human gets you heal amp, while halfling will get you actually heal spells.
Both of these will get you some sneak attack as well.

Level order is a toss up based on your stats and when you will have the requirements for each feat, but on a simple monkcher template without being to MAD, I'd say go 1Ranger/2Monk/2Paladin/4Monk/5Ranger/1Paladin/5Ranger. Or something similar anyways.

Ara has good advice. The one thing I think they left out is that to get heal spells on a halfling requires you to take the halfling dragonmark and then invest in the halfling racial enhancement tree to get the lesser and greater dragonmarks - and even then you'll probably have only 2 or maybe 3 uses of the heal spell (which, admittedly, can make the difference between dying or wiping and not). Just felt the need to point out what you have to do to actually get heal spells on a halfling and the limitations of such. Whether this is a worthwhile investment from your perspective is up to you. I honestly have no opinion on it.

[Texturace]

Half-Orc would be a pretty horrible choice for a fleshy. They just don't offer any bonus's to a monkchers playstyle. Even one that melee's.
Human, Halfling, or Elf are the only decent fleshy choices, with Bladeforged either being better/just behind these depending on your views.

I would suggest Human, or Halfling for better saves, more skill points, and the best heals you'll get as a fleshy.
Half elf is meh at best now, since Dilletante's are so expensive now.

Human gets you heal amp, while halfling will get you actually heal spells.
Both of these will get you some sneak attack as well.

Level order is a toss up based on your stats and when you will have the requirements for each feat, but on a simple monkcher template without being to MAD, I'd say go 1Ranger/2Monk/2Paladin/4Monk/5Ranger/1Paladin/5Ranger. Or something similar anyways.

1 R, 2-3 M, 4-5 P, 6-9 M, 10-14 R, 15 P, 16-20 R would make sense if it weren't for grandmaster constriction. I'm thinking if it's supposed to be something along those lines: 1 R, 2-3 M, 4-5 P, 6-8 R, 9-12 M, 13-14 R, 15 P, 16-20 R

Would that make sense? And I wouldn't want any strength and carrying capacity penalties... for now at least .... so I'm thinking Human. On top of that, elf constitution penalty is a huge hit because I already would have less than ideal hitpoints.

So since I have +3 tomes across the board, for starting stats should i go 16 str, 16 dex, 14 con, 15 wis OR 15 str, 16 dex, 14 con, 16 wis OR 16 str, 15 dex, 14 con, 16 wis. Level 21 Combat Archery seems great for once I hit that point, but we gotta make it there first. So since I'm extremely hesitant to start any stats over 16, with the +3 tome at highest it would be 19. Would that mean I HAVE to put level ups in Dex to make it to combat archery?

And what feats should I take along the way since I get so many free feats.

[Texturace]

Ara has good advice. The one thing I think they left out is that to get heal spells on a halfling requires you to take the halfling dragonmark and then invest in the halfling racial enhancement tree to get the lesser and greater dragonmarks - and even then you'll probably have only 2 or maybe 3 uses of the heal spell (which, admittedly, can make the difference between dying or wiping and not). Just felt the need to point out what you have to do to actually get heal spells on a halfling and the limitations of such. Whether this is a worthwhile investment from your perspective is up to you. I honestly have no opinion on it.

Ya, I know, I'm noob, not THAT noob :P. I thought dragonmarks were THE coolest thing when I first started, but most of them aren't worth the feat slot

[unbongwah]

I'm thinking of starting of 5 wizard for the permanent tenser's transformation.
If you take Slaying Arrows, you can't take the EK T5 enhancements; and you really want Slaying Arrows on a monkcher. :)

When it comes to race, the half-elf dilettante feat isn't going to be worth much because you won't be able to do traps and you will likely be outside of sneak attack range, rendering the sneak damage moot - which it mostly is anyway since it's just 1d6 sneak damage. Yes, you can get extended sneak attack range with Deepwood Sniper, but you'll probably be mostly investing in Arcane Archer and it is not likely you'll end up with many AP left over for Deepwood Sniper.
HE/elf core enhs also extend SA range. Sniper Shot is very nice for a ranged toon with a decent amount of SA.

Monkchers dont melee.
That depends on the build / player: some choose to switch to melee while MS & 10K are still on CD, others stay 100% ranged.

If you want to do good dps, you will need high str.
You also want high WIS for 10K Stars proc chance and enough DEX to take your ranged feats, making monkchers one of the MADer builds out there. Although an elven archer has the option of going for elven Grace, allowing them to dump STR to focus on DEX & WIS.

[Ivan_Milic]

With 11 ranger you will have clw and cmw, with cocoon, that is enough to heal, and you also need to take empower healing spell, can turn it on just for cocoon since it wont raise spell cost, but I use it also on clw/cmw.

[Texturace]

If you take Slaying Arrows, you can't take the EK T5 enhancements; and you really want Slaying Arrows on a monkcher. :)

HE/elf core enhs also extend SA range. Sniper Shot is very nice for a ranged toon with a decent amount of SA.

That depends on the build / player: some choose to switch to melee while MS & 10K are still on CD, others stay 100% ranged.

You also want high WIS for 10K Stars proc chance and enough DEX to take your ranged feats, making monkchers one of the MADer builds out there. Although an elven archer has the option of going for elven Grace, allowing them to dump STR to focus on DEX & WIS.

So you make a lot of good builds, if I'm doing this for Ranger PL and want to be damage oriented with a hint of survivability, what would you recommend. Now keep in mind, if we did go with elf so that I could drop str, i wouldn't have it any lower than 10 (because I have the +3 tome) in case of carrying weight capacity and ray of enfeeblement.

So i'm assuming you saw what I said earlier. 11 Ranger, 6 Monk, 3 Paladin

1 R, 2-3 M, 4-5 P, 6-8 R, 9-12 M, 13-14 R, 15 P, 16-20 R <-------- Would that make sense ( i haven't looked at any of the feats or enchantments open at that level). And which feats/enchantments SHOULD i go for (besides slayer arrow which you already said was a must :P )

[EDIT]
Actually, Paladin wouldn't be all that great since I wouldn't have any charisma, would it? So I've heard Fighter is good to fill those last 3 levels, but what else?

[Ivan_Milic]

You can put few points in cha, and will have cha item, should give you at least +5 to saves, which is a lot.
But if you want more dmg, ftr is better.
Lvling order doesnt matter, as long as you take necessary feats.

[unbongwah]

Do you plan to HTR as soon as you hit 20 and farm your tokens; or are you planning to run epics? That effects whether you optimize your build for XP-farming at lvl 18 (a lot of TRers park here to minimize the XP penalty for farming lower-lvl quests like the Vale) or for running epics.

[Texturace]

You can put few points in cha, and will have cha item, should give you at least +5 to saves, which is a lot.
But if you want more dmg, ftr is better.

So make sure this math is right, IF I were to go with Elf and get the stuff that lets me more or less ignore strength, 10 Str (-2), 18 Dex (-10), 12 Con (-6), 8 Int, 16 Wis (-10), 14 Cha (-6)

Or, would this be better? 10 Str (-2), 18 Dex (-10), 14 Con (-10), 8 int, 16 Wis (-10), 10 Cha (-2)

[Texturace]

Do you plan to HTR as soon as you hit 20 and farm your tokens; or are you planning to run epics? That effects whether you optimize your build for XP-farming at lvl 18 (a lot of TRers park here to minimize the XP penalty for farming lower-lvl quests like the Vale) or for running epics.

I'm not going to say I'm going to farm tokens and rush TRing, but on that life I would do it ASAP but I wouldn't go out of my way to do it since I do enjoy epics. I would still go in to maybe level 23-24

[Ivan_Milic]

You can dump str completely, +6 str item will be enough so str wont cause any problems.

[Texturace]

You can dump str completely, +6 str item will be enough so str wont cause any problems.

So I just checked Cannith Crafting to see what the minimum levels are on the +X items. I can't get +6 until level 11 (correct me if that's wrong) Which means that +1 in min level 1, +2 min level 3, +3 min level 5, +4 min level 7, +5 min level 9. So these might make up for the level curve, well I guess you're right, especially with the +3 tome, that's 17 Strength at level 11 so that's fine.

So now the 2 main builds we're looking at are: 18 Dex (-10), 12 Con (-6), 16 Wis (-10), 14 Cha (-6) and put 1 extra point into either con or cha, probably con
AND 18 Dex (-10), 14 Con (-10), 16 Wis (-10), and 12 Cha (-4)

Which would be best? (Keep in mind that in the first main build it's either 13 Con or 15 Cha depending on what you guys think would b e better)


So should I get just a specific item where I'm like, "Okay.... BRACERS, bracers will ALWAYS be for strength." And then say something like, "One ring will be Charisma!" "BOOTS of Dexterity" "Necklace of Wisdom" "Gloves of Strength" "Belt of Constitution" and just fill out the rest

[willox2112]

Here is what I would do.


Elf 11 Ranger/6 Monk/3FvS

Elf for bow enhancements, later on racial Arcane Archer (lvl 25)
Ranger for all the nice free feats
Monk for feats/saves/10k Stars/Earth stance
FvS for Follower of the Silver Flame, extra damage in Warpriest tree, PRR/Empower Heal

For a 34 pt build

Str 16 - 6 level ups here for 25 STR with your +3 tome
Dex 17 - 1 level up here for 21 DEX with your +3 tome
Con 14
Wis 15

How I would level it up:
1-2 R, 3 M, 4-5 R, 6 M, 7-8 R, 9-12 M, 13-17 R, 18-20 FvS

Get PBS, Power Attack, Cleave, G-Cleave, Precision, Master Of Forms, Empower Heal
Epic Feats: Overwhelming Crit and Combat Archery
Destiny: Shiradi, FotW, or LD (if, for example, you are soloing and/or can keep Blitz going)

Get the PRR and Righteous Weapons from Warpriest
If you can get a decent CHA score (say 20 or more) then Divine Might from the Warpriest tree is excellent.
Get the elven racial bow enhancements, at lvl 25 respec and get racial Arcane Archer to get the capstone.
Don't worry about DEX, try to get as much STR and WIS as possible.

That's my .02 (select currency).

Keep on Rockin'!

Willox2112

Edit:
Very important, get the Zen Archery feat at level 3 :)
There is no point to all of this if you don't.

[Ivan_Milic]

So I just checked Cannith Crafting to see what the minimum levels are on the +X items. I can't get +6 until level 11 (correct me if that's wrong) Which means that +1 in min level 1, +2 min level 3, +3 min level 5, +4 min level 7, +5 min level 9. So these might make up for the level curve, well I guess you're right, especially with the +3 tome, that's 17 Strength at level 11 so that's fine.

So now the 2 main builds we're looking at are: 18 Dex (-10), 12 Con (-6), 16 Wis (-10), 14 Cha (-6) and put 1 extra point into either con or cha, probably con
AND 18 Dex (-10), 14 Con (-10), 16 Wis (-10), and 12 Cha (-4)

Which would be best? (Keep in mind that in the first main build it's either 13 Con or 15 Cha depending on what you guys think would b e better)


So should I get just a specific item where I'm like, "Okay.... BRACERS, bracers will ALWAYS be for strength." And then say something like, "One ring will be Charisma!" "BOOTS of Dexterity" "Necklace of Wisdom" "Gloves of Strength" "Belt of Constitution" and just fill out the rest
With masterful craftsmanship it will be +6 stat at ml 9.
I never made dex based build, so idk how that works, maybe someone can tell you better.

[Texturace]

Here is what I would do.


Elf 11 Ranger/6 Monk/3FvS

Elf for bow enhancements, later on racial Arcane Archer (lvl 25)
Ranger for all the nice free feats
Monk for feats/saves/10k Stars/Earth stance
FvS for Follower of the Silver Flame, extra damage in Warpriest tree, PRR/Empower Heal

For a 34 pt build

Str 16 - 6 level ups here for 25 STR with your +3 tome
Dex 17 - 1 level up here for 21 DEX with your +3 tome
Con 14
Wis 15

How I would level it up:
1-2 R, 3 M, 4-5 R, 6 M, 7-8 R, 9-12 M, 13-17 R, 18-20 FvS

Get PBS, Power Attack, Cleave, G-Cleave, Precision, Master Of Forms, Empower Heal
Epic Feats: Overwhelming Crit and Combat Archery
Destiny: Shiradi, FotW, or LD (if, for example, you are soloing and/or can keep Blitz going)

Get the PRR and Righteous Weapons from Warpriest
If you can get a decent CHA score (say 20 or more) then Divine Might from the Warpriest tree is excellent.
Get the elven racial bow enhancements, at lvl 25 respec and get racial Arcane Archer to get the capstone.
Don't worry about DEX, try to get as much STR and WIS as possible.

That's my .02 (select currency).

Keep on Rockin'!

Willox2112

Edit:
Very important, get the Zen Archery feat at level 3 :)
There is no point to all of this if you don't.

Why would I get empowered healing with cure light wounds? Do those ED's give healing spells?

In warpriest is it just for the Righteous weapons and the +1 to either Str, Wis, or Cha?

Which bonuses in Warpriest would you take, AND do you think that those are better than getting the bonuses to saves from Paladin?
15 CHA (because this is the build I would lean towards) + 3 from Tome + 9-10 item end game (i can get those right? ML 19?) + any exceptional stats I might find +2 from Airship = 29 CHA + 1 or 2 from ML 19 pure bonus gear (if cant be crafted) maybe another + 1 or 2 from exceptional= 29-35 (best case) giivng me something like a +10 to +12 modifier with CHA meaning +10 to ALL saves
Even if I did the 13 CON variation, it would be 28-34 +9 to +12 modifier.

The big question is, would I keep it DEX based or do my original plan and have it with Str and Dex with all level ups going into STR
If that's the case, then we're looking at 16 STR (-10), Dex (-10), 14 Con (-6), 14 Wis (-6), with 10 CHA (-2) <-------- instead of 1 stat being 15 just trimmed down wisdom because +3/+4 from ocean stance and I just realized how insane the bonuses would be with items in the first place bringing it up in the neighborhood of 31-37

[Coyopa]

Elf for bow enhancements, later on racial Arcane Archer (lvl 25)

Why would you waste 4 AP in the elf tree just to get access to AA enhancements when 11 ranger gives you access to pretty much everything except for the core enhancements? I don't see the capstone as being that powerful to warrant this.

[willox2112]

Why would I get empowered healing with cure light wounds? Do those ED's give healing spells?

In warpriest is it just for the Righteous weapons and the +1 to either Str, Wis, or Cha?

Which bonuses in Warpriest would you take, AND do you think that those are better than getting the bonuses to saves from Paladin?
15 CHA (because this is the build I would lean towards) + 3 from Tome + 9-10 item end game (i can get those right? ML 19?) + any exceptional stats I might find +2 from Airship = 29 CHA + 1 or 2 from ML 19 pure bonus gear (if cant be crafted) maybe another + 1 or 2 from exceptional= 29-35 (best case) giivng me something like a +10 to +12 modifier with CHA meaning +10 to ALL saves
Even if I did the 13 CON variation, it would be 28-34 +9 to +12 modifier.

The big question is, would I keep it DEX based or do my original plan and have it with Str and Dex with all level ups going into STR
If that's the case, then we're looking at 16 STR (-10), Dex (-10), 14 Con (-6), 14 Wis (-6), with 10 CHA (-2) <-------- instead of 1 stat being 15 just trimmed down wisdom because +3/+4 from ocean stance and I just realized how insane the bonuses would be with items in the first place bringing it up in the neighborhood of 31-37

There is probably nothing in the build I posted that would be better than a +10 to +12 saves bonus from Paladin.

Then again.. the builds have two different approaches. The one you are leaning towards gets the nice saves bonus, and with Divine Might a very, very nice boost to damage.

Mine relies on WIS for to hit, and STR for damage. As everyone knows STR is the easiest stat to increase in the game. You can easily reach a mid-40's or low 50's STR with this build (situational, yes, but doable).
And the other thing is... I am building towards Overwhelming Critical. There is really no other way to put it and I don't mean to be an ass... but you really don't get it until you get it. It is amazing.

As for Warpriest the enhancements I am mostly looking at are the PRR bonus, Toughness, and 2 or 3X Righteous Weapons. And, as I said before, Divine Might if your CHA is high enough. If you can get a stat increase from Warpriest it would obviously be on STR.

[Texturace]

There is probably nothing in the build I posted that would be better than a +10 to +12 saves bonus from Paladin.

Then again.. the builds have two different approaches. The one you are leaning towards gets the nice saves bonus, and with Divine Might a very, very nice boost to damage.

Mine relies on WIS for to hit, and STR for damage. As everyone knows STR is the easiest stat to increase in the game. You can easily reach a mid-40's or low 50's STR with this build (situational, yes, but doable).
And the other thing is... I am building towards Overwhelming Critical. There is really no other way to put it and I don't mean to be an ass... but you really don't get it until you get it. It is amazing.

As for Warpriest the enhancements I am mostly looking at are the PRR bonus, Toughness, and 2 or 3X Righteous Weapons. And, as I said before, Divine Might if your CHA is high enough. If you can get a stat increase from Warpriest it would obviously be on STR.

Okay, I'm not 100% sure I'd look for that over the +10 to all saves, but I will keep that in mind. I may or may not use that, but what do you think of me still going paladin but like I said 16 STR (-10), 16 Dex (-10), 14 Con (-6), 14 Wis (-6), with 10 CHA (-2) which would mean that I would hit 24-30 which would still be a 7-10 bonus all the while progressing to overwhelming critical because I start with the 16 str


[EDIT] Instead of going for the warpriest stuff, I could go Knight of the Chalice and get Fiendslayer (1d6 bonus damage to undead or evil outsiders) which seems like the only good thing in that tree which means I can focus all my other AP's to something else.

[unbongwah]

Grandmaster Ocean Stance over Master = +1 wis, +1% dodge, +1 to all saving throws. Wouldn't those all be of use in just being able to survive? Wouldn't the extra wisdom itself be worth it? Again I'm still relatively new.
A lot of monkchers use Master Earth stance for the +1 crit multiplier on 19-20 rolls; that's worth more DPS than the extra WIS from Ocean.

Anyway, here's a stab at adapting Sestra's build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429975-Sestra-s-Build-Thread) to 34-pt halfling rgr 12 / monk 6 / pal 2. The core concepts were: full ranged DPS, decent unarmed DPS + S.Fist, and self-heals from halfling DMs & FoLs.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 24 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(2 Paladin \ 6 Monk \ 12 Ranger \ 4 Epic)
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 457
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 23
Will: 21

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 24)
Strength 11 14
Dexterity 17 21
Constitution 14 17
Intelligence 9 12
Wisdom 16 24
Charisma 12 15

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 24)
Balance 3 24
Bluff 1 7
Concentration 6 30
Diplomacy 1 6
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 6
Heal 7 39
Hide 3 15
Intimidate 1 6
Jump 4 13
Listen 3 13
Move Silently 3 13
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 5
Search -1 5
Spellcraft -1 5
Spot 7 32
Swim 0 6
Tumble n/a 10
Use Magic Device 3 17

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Ten Thousand Stars


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 17 (Ranger)


Level 18 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist


Level 19 (Paladin)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Silver Flame


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Halfling - Cunning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Break Out The Leeches (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Greater Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Aligned Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - True Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Corrosive Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Shock Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Soul Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Flaming Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Banishing Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Smiting Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Frost Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Moonbow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arrow of Slaying (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Improved Elemental Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Runebow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sniper Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Stealthy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Stealthy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Damage Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS


DWS Stealthy is actually a placeholder; its AP cost has been reduced 1 AP per rank instead of 2, but the builder hasn't been updated yet for U21. Until you have Bane of Undeath Twisted in, put APs into Ninja instead of KotC for Shadow Form + extra SA; or possibly Henshin if you really want Contemplation for passive ki regen.

Mulling over ideas for DEX-based elf version instead.

[Texturace]

A lot of monkchers use Master Earth stance for the +1 crit multiplier on 19-20 rolls; that's worth more DPS than the extra WIS from Ocean.

Anyway, here's a stab at adapting Sestra's build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429975-Sestra-s-Build-Thread) to 34-pt halfling rgr 12 / monk 6 / pal 2. The core concepts were: full ranged DPS, decent unarmed DPS + S.Fist, and self-heals from halfling DMs & FoLs.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 24 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(2 Paladin \ 6 Monk \ 12 Ranger \ 4 Epic)
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 457
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 23
Will: 21

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 24)
Strength 11 14
Dexterity 17 21
Constitution 14 17
Intelligence 9 12
Wisdom 16 24
Charisma 12 15

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 24)
Balance 3 24
Bluff 1 7
Concentration 6 30
Diplomacy 1 6
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 6
Heal 7 39
Hide 3 15
Intimidate 1 6
Jump 4 13
Listen 3 13
Move Silently 3 13
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 5
Search -1 5
Spellcraft -1 5
Spot 7 32
Swim 0 6
Tumble n/a 10
Use Magic Device 3 17

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Ten Thousand Stars


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 17 (Ranger)


Level 18 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist


Level 19 (Paladin)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Silver Flame


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Halfling - Cunning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Break Out The Leeches (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Greater Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Aligned Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - True Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Corrosive Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Shock Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Soul Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Flaming Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Banishing Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Smiting Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Frost Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Moonbow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arrow of Slaying (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Improved Elemental Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Runebow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sniper Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Stealthy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Stealthy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Damage Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS


DWS Stealthy is actually a placeholder; its AP cost has been reduced 1 AP per rank instead of 2, but the builder hasn't been updated yet for U21. Until you have Bane of Undeath Twisted in, put APs into Ninja instead of KotC for Shadow Form + extra SA; or possibly Henshin if you really want Contemplation for passive ki regen.

Mulling over ideas for DEX-based elf version instead.

Hmmm so first off like I mentioned earlier, I'm not into the Halfling w/ Dragonmark
And the crit range on Earth stance sounds cool, but wouldn't it give a Dex Penalty?
In addition I like the idea of going into henshin mystic or whatever for the ki generation. The question is how balanced would the EP expenditure be?

[EDIT] So I took a look at the henshin mystic, and by tier 2 you can get tenacious badger (for the under 50%) or the faithful hound (for the bonus to flanking) as well as contemplation. But where would the ki generation cap?

I assume you mean shadow veil? And yes I agree that the huge bonuses to SA are also amazing, BUT the Paladin bonuses would literally be the first EP spent in the tree so I don't think 1 EP is a huge investment. Why not have both?

[TheLegendOfAra]

If you move away from the paladin splash, my suggestion would be to splash 3 Artificer.

Full UMD, +1 to the CL of scrolls(=1 min in duration), 1d6 elemental damage via spells, Pet for pulling levers, Xbow/runearm use for low levels(Still effective for CC in EH content), ability to cast grease and annoy your guildies to no end.

[Texturace]

If you move away from the paladin splash, my suggestion would be to splash 3 Artificer.

Full UMD, +1 to the CL of scrolls(=1 min in duration), 1d6 elemental damage via spells, Pet for pulling levers, Xbow/runearm use for low levels(Still effective for CC in EH content), ability to cast grease and annoy your guildies to no end.

I just wanted the saves, the thing is I won't really be able to use scrolls because I think no classes will have that and I won't have int. I'll definately consider it if you can explain to me how that's better than +7/+8 on saves

[Ivan_Milic]

Why would I get empowered healing with cure light wounds? Do those ED's give healing spells?


How did you think of healing in epics?
You heal with cocoon, and empower heal doesnt raise sp cost of cocoon.

[Texturace]

How did you think of healing in epics?
You heal with cocoon, and empower heal doesnt raise sp cost of cocoon.

That one cleric that's dying on the inside :P

[TheLegendOfAra]

I just wanted the saves, the thing is I won't really be able to use scrolls because I think no classes will have that and I won't have int. I'll definately consider it if you can explain to me how that's better than +7/+8 on saves

While the saves are nice, unless you're planning on playing strictly EE content they're not needed at any other stage of the game, and chances are you're not going to be getting +7/8 to saves until nearing epics anyways without twink gear. Which this being the case a paladin splash may not be your best option...(You yourself brought up this concern, and it is a legit concern. That paladin splash won't be doing to much for you until you hit epic levels.)

Given this, and since I like to give people as many options as possibly as opposed to "this is how you do it, and it's the only way to do it!" I thought a /3 Arti splash would be your next best bet. Artificer gets UMD as a class skill, which means you can put full ranks up into it while you level(You'll be doing this regardless, it is the best skill in the game). Int isn't that big of a deal, as Ranger gets the second most skill points per level of any class, and if you go human that's an even bigger bonus to skill points.

As a Monkcher there are only going to be 3 skills you absolutely must have, Concentration, Heal, and UMD. Anything else is just a bonus.
On my second life I used the 11Ranger/6Monk/3Arti split and at cap I had enough UMD to use every scroll in the game, as well as enough Search, Spot, DD to get every trap in the game. And enough Open Lock for all chests.

Oh yeah, this build is a trapper build as well, if you want it to be. Forgot to mention that.

[Texturace]

While the saves are nice, unless you're planning on playing strictly EE content they're not needed at any other stage of the game, and chances are you're not going to be getting +7/8 to saves until nearing epics anyways without twink gear. Which this being the case a paladin splash may not be your best option...(You yourself brought up this concern, and it is a legit concern. That paladin splash won't be doing to much for you until you hit epic levels.)

Given this, and since I like to give people as many options as possibly as opposed to "this is how you do it, and it's the only way to do it!" I thought a /3 Arti splash would be your next best bet. Artificer gets UMD as a class skill, which means you can put full ranks up into it while you level(You'll be doing this regardless, it is the best skill in the game). Int isn't that big of a deal, as Ranger gets the second most skill points per level of any class, and if you go human that's an even bigger bonus to skill points.

As a Monkcher there are only going to be 3 skills you absolutely must have, Concentration, Heal, and UMD. Anything else is just a bonus.
On my second life I used the 11Ranger/6Monk/3Arti split and at cap I had enough UMD to use every scroll in the game, as well as enough Search, Spot, DD to get every trap in the game. And enough Open Lock for all chests.

Oh yeah, this build is a trapper build as well, if you want it to be. Forgot to mention that.

Now that you mention it, being a trapper, as long as i don't have to give much up, would be an awesome addition. Could you give me starting stats, feats, and major enhancements to get? (1800 fragments woo)

[EDIT]Also, it wouldn't be that late to get any bonuses. Come level 11, I can get +6 item, +3 tome, +2 ship buff. Which is still +5 to all saves. REGARDLESS that artificer trap monkey w/ being a monkcher sounds amazing as long as you don't have to give stuff up.

[EDIT #2] https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/375179-11-6-3-Ranger-monk-rog-AA-trapper-advice is that the build you used?

[Ivan_Milic]

The only thing you give up is 3 lvls.

[Texturace]

The only thing you give up is 3 lvls.

I'm cool with that. So any sample builds w/ feats, starting points, general target enhancements? That's the big thing I'm looking at now.

[TheLegendOfAra]

Now that you mention it, being a trapper, as long as i don't have to give much up, would be an awesome addition. Could you give me starting stats, feats, and major enhancements to get? (1800 fragments woo)

[EDIT]Also, it wouldn't be that late to get any bonuses. Come level 11, I can get +6 item, +3 tome, +2 ship buff. Which is still +5 to all saves. REGARDLESS that artificer trap monkey w/ being a monkcher sounds amazing as long as you don't have to give stuff up.

[EDIT #2] https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/375179-11-6-3-Ranger-monk-rog-AA-trapper-advice is that the build you used?

While you wouldn't get them too late, Helf with the pali dille would get that, but earlier. Which is the exact build I used when I was on my second life. But it was before the enhancement pass. I wasn't happy with how AP heavy the helf tree is now, but other people's opinion may vary on that.

Either way the build I used is in this thread https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431675-Ara-s-Thread-of-Mediocre-Builds .
There are the basics anyways, you can change and adjust what you need based on how you'll be playing. If you go helf and like the idea of paladin dille, swap your points from Int to Cha and drop your con to 12. put the remaining point back into int.

I will admit non of my builds have used combat archery, since I have no use for it and my builds were already too MAD to use it. So if you want it you'll have to figure that out and adjust things to your liking.


The only thing you give up is 3 lvls.
You don't give up any levels. You give up paladin as a class. There is a difference.

[Texturace]

While you wouldn't get them too late, Helf with the pali dille would get that, but earlier. Which is the exact build I used when I was on my second life. But it was before the enhancement pass. I wasn't happy with how AP heavy the helf tree is now, but other people's opinion may vary on that.

Either way the build I used is in this thread https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431675-Ara-s-Thread-of-Mediocre-Builds .
There are the basics anyways, you can change and adjust what you need based on how you'll be playing. If you go helf and like the idea of paladin dille, swap your points from Int to Cha and drop your con to 12. put the remaining point back into int.

I will admit non of my builds have used combat archery, since I have no use for it and my builds were already too MAD to use it. So if you want it you'll have to figure that out and adjust things to your liking.


You don't give up any levels. You give up paladin as a class. There is a difference.

Are you wielding a long sword and a shortsword/dagger? Just curious because while I have been grinding some hand wraps, Stonedust Handwraps of lesser Vamprism, I have gotten good dagger drops like Sacrificial Dagger. I also got this amazing anarchic burst, vorpal khopesh with ML 18. Granted that would give neg level being lawful, but I could definatwly use that in a future life :P. Which longswords would you reccomend as you level? Which short swords/daggers. And that build for arti never showed which level went where. I'm thinking that if I'm going to do Arti, considering that I will need the actual arti level to fill up a ton of missing skill points, 1-2 ranger, 3-4 monk, 5 arti, 6-9 ranger, 10-13 monk, 14 arti, 15-19 ranger, 20 arti. Does that sound about rigt?

Also I have to agree with you, Combat Archery or whatever that 21 dex epic feat is, is good for the +1(W), but you get tons more utility out of everything else if you go for the r/m/a. So if you can clear up some of those questions and explain why you have multiple feats in each place on your build I think I'll use this

[Ivan_Milic]

While you wouldn't get them too late, Helf with the pali dille would get that, but earlier. Which is the exact build I used when I was on my second life. But it was before the enhancement pass. I wasn't happy with how AP heavy the helf tree is now, but other people's opinion may vary on that.

Either way the build I used is in this thread https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431675-Ara-s-Thread-of-Mediocre-Builds .
There are the basics anyways, you can change and adjust what you need based on how you'll be playing. If you go helf and like the idea of paladin dille, swap your points from Int to Cha and drop your con to 12. put the remaining point back into int.

I will admit non of my builds have used combat archery, since I have no use for it and my builds were already too MAD to use it. So if you want it you'll have to figure that out and adjust things to your liking.


You don't give up any levels. You give up paladin as a class. There is a difference.

3 arti lvls wont bring you any dps.

[Texturace]

3 arti lvls wont bring you any dps.

it's supposed to bring utility on top of the dps i already have

[Texturace]

So I have enough tokens to TR. I have my heart of wood, so I would REALLY like to know the level progression. Can ANYONE think of what's wrong with: 1-2 Ranger, 3-4 Monk, 5 Artificer, 6-9 Ranger, 10-13 Monk, 14 artificer, 15-19 ranger, 20 artificer?
Can anyone think of a BETTER build order?

[EDIT] Wait a minute, in order to be ABLE to get DD, lock picking, etc. I would NEED to take artificer first so I could always put points into it >.<. So now I'm thinking putting the level 5 artificer to level 1, and shifted everything else back the one level, what do you guys think now

[Ivan_Milic]

Why not go first lvl arti so you can do traps, then 2 monk for evasion, rest up to you.

[Nightmanis]

3 arti lvls wont bring you any dps.

1d6 elemental damage on your bow when soloing, and tenser's scrolls last a bit longer. So it actually does bring DPS. If he's not doing EE in general, there's nothing the 3 arti will give him that is overshadowed by 3 paladin.

[Texturace]

Why not go first lvl arti so you can do traps, then 2 monk for evasion, rest up to you.

Yeah caught that with my edit before noticing a fourth page. I like the early evasion thought but it would mean no bows until level 4. So do you think the build in the edit is cool? 1 A, 2-3 R, 4-5 M, 6-9 R, 10-13 M, 14 A, 15-19 R, 20 A

[TheLegendOfAra]

Are you wielding a long sword and a shortsword/dagger? Just curious because while I have been grinding some hand wraps, Stonedust Handwraps of lesser Vamprism, I have gotten good dagger drops like Sacrificial Dagger. I also got this amazing anarchic burst, vorpal khopesh with ML 18. Granted that would give neg level being lawful, but I could definatwly use that in a future life :P. Which longswords would you reccomend as you level? Which short swords/daggers. And that build for arti never showed which level went where. I'm thinking that if I'm going to do Arti, considering that I will need the actual arti level to fill up a ton of missing skill points, 1-2 ranger, 3-4 monk, 5 arti, 6-9 ranger, 10-13 monk, 14 arti, 15-19 ranger, 20 arti. Does that sound about rigt?

Also I have to agree with you, Combat Archery or whatever that 21 dex epic feat is, is good for the +1(W), but you get tons more utility out of everything else if you go for the r/m/a. So if you can clear up some of those questions and explain why you have multiple feats in each place on your build I think I'll use this

I actually wielded all 3 at one point, but I dropped longswords once I hit epics and started running EE's because the last of crit range really hurt the DPS at those levels, which translated to a lack of survivability because it took to long to kill EE mobs while melee with longswords. So I dropped them and went with staff/shortswords(Sireth and Celestia's, the Comm Shortsword Star of Day is a quick and easy place holder.)

Level order works best as follows: 1 Arti/2-7 Monk/8-9 Arti/10-20 Ranger.
I wanted evasion ASAP, for zerging through traps on elite(I skip them in 1-10 level content), but you can front load your arti levels more if you want.

If you don't already have any good named shortswords/staffs handwraps are the best way to go about meleeing.


3 arti lvls wont bring you any dps.

Actually it will, not much granted, but enough on top of the utility it brings.
Elemental spell for bonus damage is pretty nice while leveling, and is free DPS when there is no arti in the group to toss you a deadly.
I find it funny that OP understands this better than you, a supposed vet, when he's the one asking for build advice.


it's supposed to bring utility on top of the dps i already have

[Texturace]

Why would you front load the artificer levels and delay the ranger? Wouldn't that force you to use x-bows and handwraps all the way until level 10?

Why wouldn't you space out the artificer levels more and take ranger levels earlier?

Oh and on your build, when it has
Feats -
Point Blank Shot
Path of Inevitable Dominion
Power Attack
WF: Slashing/Cleave
Zen Archery
Whirling Steel Strike/Great Cleave
Imp Crit: Ranged
Imp Crit: Slashing
Mobility
Toughness
Dodge
Precision

on those ones with Feat/Feat does that mean get both or does that mean get one or the other?

[EDIT] One last thing, which H-Elf dille would you take?
I'm guessing fighter so that you can get the longsword proficiency pre level 10 (according to your original class build) meaning that I can get whirling steel and dual wield before then. Also I'm guessing that you ARE using X-Bows level 1. I'm also assuming that you're using handwraps until you get to the free dual wielding ranger levels.

[Ivan_Milic]

I actually wielded all 3 at one point, but I dropped longswords once I hit epics and started running EE's because the last of crit range really hurt the DPS at those levels, which translated to a lack of survivability because it took to long to kill EE mobs while melee with longswords. So I dropped them and went with staff/shortswords(Sireth and Celestia's, the Comm Shortsword Star of Day is a quick and easy place holder.)

Level order works best as follows: 1 Arti/2-7 Monk/8-9 Arti/10-20 Ranger.
I wanted evasion ASAP, for zerging through traps on elite(I skip them in 1-10 level content), but you can front load your arti levels more if you want.

If you don't already have any good named shortswords/staffs handwraps are the best way to go about meleeing.



Actually it will, not much granted, but enough on top of the utility it brings.
Elemental spell for bonus damage is pretty nice while leveling, and is free DPS when there is no arti in the group to toss you a deadly.
I find it funny that OP understands this better than you, a supposed vet, when he's the one asking for build advice.

1d6 you call dps?
lol

[Ivan_Milic]

Why would you front load the artificer levels and delay the ranger? Wouldn't that force you to use x-bows and handwraps all the way until level 10?

Why wouldn't you space out the artificer levels more and take ranger levels earlier?

Oh and on your build, when it has
Feats -
Point Blank Shot
Path of Inevitable Dominion
Power Attack
WF: Slashing/Cleave
Zen Archery
Whirling Steel Strike/Great Cleave
Imp Crit: Ranged
Imp Crit: Slashing
Mobility
Toughness
Dodge
Precision

on those ones with Feat/Feat does that mean get both or does that mean get one or the other?

No master of forms feat, no 10k, give me a link to this build.

[Texturace]

1d6 you call dps?
lol

Keep in mind he said while leveling, pre 10 it's a free flaming or acid weapon which would otherwise be like 2 ML higher

[Texturace]

No master of forms feat, no 10k, give me a link to this build.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431675-Ara-s-Thread-of-Mediocre-Builds

it's the second build listed:

11Ranger/6Monk/3Arti
34pnt, Half Elf Female
Lawful Good
Arcane Archer

HP - 800
SP - 1,337
AC - 89
PRR - 55

Saves -
64 Fortitude
68 Reflex
61 Will

Stats -
Strength - 16 +2 levels up
Dexterity - 12
Constitution - 14
Intelligence - 12
Wisdom - 16 +3 levels up
Charisma - 8
+4 Tome in every stat

Skills -
UMD
Search/Disable/Open Lock
Concentration

Feats -
Point Blank Shot
Path of Inevitable Dominion
Power Attack
WF: Slashing/Cleave
Zen Archery
Whirling Steel Strike/Great Cleave
Imp Crit: Ranged
Imp Crit: Slashing
Mobility
Toughness
Dodge
Precision

Favored Enemies -
Elf
Dragon
Giant

Epic Destiny -
Fury of the Wild(Ranged)
Legendary Dreadnaught(Melee)

is all there is

[Texturace]

Here's a summary of the questions I would like answered while I'm asleep so that I can start this life tomorrow morning.

First though, here's the build : 11 Ranger, 6 Monk, 3 Artificer.
The reccomended leveling order is 1 A, 2-7 M, 8-9 A, 10-20 R

First question, why take ranger levels so late?

Two, why front load the arti levels instead of having them spaced and using extra skill points to cap them out after a ton of +.5

Three, if the above questions have no good answer, what should the leveling order be and what are thoughts on :
1 A, 2-3 R, 4-5 M (or 2-3 M, 4-5 R) , 6-9 R, 10-13 M, 14 A, 15-19 R, 20 A, 21-28 Epic ( :P )

Four, WHAT IS THE FEAT ORDER AND H-ELF DILLETANTE PLEASE!!!!!! BTW, I'm over the paladin dille, maybe on a H-Elf sorc or something.

Five, what are the MAJOR enchantments I should focus for (I can do the filler stuff how I please)

Six, TO FIT ALL OF THIS, what are the starting stat points? (16 str, 12 dex, 14 con. 12 int, 16 wis, 8 cha sounds good unless there are major renovations)

Seven, which weapons should I use when and where in my leveling!?

Eight, will I be strong enough to run epic quests without being a waste (as in being useful on EH and having at least mediocre dps and utility on EE)

LASTLY, is there ANYTHING I should be aware of before starting this, I do NOT want to F*** ovdr my first TR considering my second highest level is only a level 14 AND GIMP elf palemaster with 1200 sp (with 31 int and like a wizardry 6 ring) and 240 or so hp with spells I should really spend an hour messing around with

[Ivan_Milic]

Because meleeing is stronger than bow in heroics.
On my monkcher I didnt ranger till I was 20, rest of the answers someone else will have to answer because you are dumping dex, dont want to take combat archery so I cant give you advices.
You will spend 30+ ap in aa tree, something in deepwood, few in henshin to get contemplation.

[TheLegendOfAra]

1d6 you call dps? lol
It adds damage per second, so yes. But again, I don't build toons to max out damage, I build them to be as versatile as possible, and to be fun. They just also happen to do a lot of DPS.


No master of forms feat, no 10k, give me a link to this build.
The basic template of the build I linked him was from before the enhancement pass, things would obviously have to be adjusted, and could be done really simply.
I linked it, and told OP of the basic concept. But I'm pretty sure that in my build thread it states things would have to be changed.


Here's a summary of the questions I would like answered while I'm asleep so that I can start this life tomorrow morning.
First though, here's the build : 11 Ranger, 6 Monk, 3 Artificer.
The reccomended leveling order is 1 A, 2-7 M, 8-9 A, 10-20 R

First question, why take ranger levels so late?

Two, why front load the arti levels instead of having them spaced and using extra skill points to cap them out after a ton of +.5

Three, if the above questions have no good answer, what should the leveling order be and what are thoughts on :
1 A, 2-3 R, 4-5 M (or 2-3 M, 4-5 R) , 6-9 R, 10-13 M, 14 A, 15-19 R, 20 A, 21-28 Epic ( :P )

Four, WHAT IS THE FEAT ORDER AND H-ELF DILLETANTE PLEASE!!!!!! BTW, I'm over the paladin dille, maybe on a H-Elf sorc or something.

Five, what are the MAJOR enchantments I should focus for (I can do the filler stuff how I please)

Six, TO FIT ALL OF THIS, what are the starting stat points? (16 str, 12 dex, 14 con. 12 int, 16 wis, 8 cha sounds good unless there are major renovations)

Seven, which weapons should I use when and where in my leveling!?

Eight, will I be strong enough to run epic quests without being a waste (as in being useful on EH and having at least mediocre dps and utility on EE)

LASTLY, is there ANYTHING I should be aware of before starting this, I do NOT want to F*** ovdr my first TR considering my second highest level is only a level 14 AND GIMP elf palemaster with 1200 sp (with 31 int and like a wizardry 6 ring) and 240 or so hp with spells I should really spend an hour messing around with

Because I liked using xbows while doing low level quests, and the spells were useful at low levels as well. Skill points don't really play to much into it as Rangers get more skill points per level than arti do. Which is why I personally backloaded ranger levels as much as possible. (was the deciding factor anyways)

Feat order is... Well, I can't think of it off the top of my head actually. I LR so many times at cap each life I forget what I originally did. lol
Main thing is to get PA, Cleave, Great Cleave, and your Imp. Crit feats early in the build as they will be the most help while leveling. The rest is really up to you.

If you've given up on Palli Dille then that looks fine to me I guess.

Staffs, Shortswords, and handwraps. Silver Longbow until you get some better named bows.

Once you get some gear on you that build should be able to handle anything except the very highest level of endgame content(IE. the new EE Raids.)

Just work on getting gear, and don't worry to much about the rest. Idk, I had a blast with this build and I did a lot with it. Solo'd almost every EE quest in the game when I was at cap with it, Tanked EE FOT a number of times, Solo'd EN CITW, EH FOT, a bunch of the old raids. If you put your time and effort into it, it should pay off.

[Texturace]

It adds damage per second, so yes. But again, I don't build toons to max out damage, I build them to be as versatile as possible, and to be fun. They just also happen to do a lot of DPS.


The basic template of the build I linked him was from before the enhancement pass, things would obviously have to be adjusted, and could be done really simply.
I linked it, and told OP of the basic concept. But I'm pretty sure that in my build thread it states things would have to be changed.



Because I liked using xbows while doing low level quests, and the spells were useful at low levels as well. Skill points don't really play to much into it as Rangers get more skill points per level than arti do. Which is why I personally backloaded ranger levels as much as possible. (was the deciding factor anyways)

Feat order is... Well, I can't think of it off the top of my head actually. I LR so many times at cap each life I forget what I originally did. lol
Main thing is to get PA, Cleave, Great Cleave, and your Imp. Crit feats early in the build as they will be the most help while leveling. The rest is really up to you.

If you've given up on Palli Dille then that looks fine to me I guess.

Staffs, Shortswords, and handwraps. Silver Longbow until you get some better named bows.

Once you get some gear on you that build should be able to handle anything except the very highest level of endgame content(IE. the new EE Raids.)

Just work on getting gear, and don't worry to much about the rest. Idk, I had a blast with this build and I did a lot with it. Solo'd almost every EE quest in the game when I was at cap with it, Tanked EE FOT a number of times, Solo'd EN CITW, EH FOT, a bunch of the old raids. If you put your time and effort into it, it should pay off.


Few things you skipped: Dilletante, enhancements, and w t f you can use x-bows while centered? And you didnt seem to plan out zen archery and whirling steel... Could you get back to me on those? Thanks for all the help though, at this rate I should prob start planning my third life right now too :P


[EDIT] Since you are focusing on QS, short swords, and wraps in early levels before transitioning into bows, would you go Barbarian Dilettante, get the 1 dr level 1, get 5 HP each bonus Dilettante enhancement, get like another +3-4 DR from other enhancements capping at like +20-25 hp and 3-4 DR , although Fighter would give the the + to damage and let you use longbows earlier, so what would be better?

[Coyopa]

lol. I am so glad I haven't had time to follow this thread again until now. A monkcher with 3 artificer levels. roflmao , but whatever works I guess.

[Texturace]

lol. I am so glad I haven't had time to follow this thread again until now. A monkcher with 3 artificer levels. roflmao , but whatever works I guess.

that doesn't answer which dilettante to take Q.Q

[Ivan_Milic]

that doesn't answer which dilettante to take Q.Q

You can go with cleric till epics, 95% heal scroll.

[Texturace]

You can go with cleric till epics, 95% heal scroll.

but would that overshadow the fighter damage and barbarian DR and Health?

[Ivan_Milic]

but would that overshadow the fighter damage and barbarian DR and Health?

Heal for 200, or do extra 1-2 dmg or have 1-2 dr, should be easy to decide.

[Texturace]

Heal for 200, or do extra 1-2 dmg or have 1-2 dr, should be easy to decide.

eh good point :P

[TheLegendOfAra]

lol. I am so glad I haven't had time to follow this thread again until now. A monkcher with 3 artificer levels. roflmao , but whatever works I guess.

As opposed to the exact same class split every other monkcher plays? And most of them play them pretty badly...
Don't knock the synergies until you've played it. I know first hand it was an amazing build and I did the exact same things other good monkchers on more traditional splits did.

The only thing the splits lacks VS. a /2 paladin split is the god like saves. Still at 25 I had saves in the high 50's which was more than enough at the time. Now you may need more for EE Raids/shadowfell stuff, but since OP is probably going to be running EH and the occasional EE it should be perfect.

What 3 levels of a class would you add for more diversity and utility?

[Texturace]

^ Ignore the title as this is a complete edit because I should make a separate thread elsewhere,thanks for all the help all you guys!

[Nightmanis]

As opposed to the exact same class split every other monkcher plays? And most of them play them pretty badly...
Don't knock the synergies until you've played it. I know first hand it was an amazing build and I did the exact same things other good monkchers on more traditional splits did.

The only thing the splits lacks VS. a /2 paladin split is the god like saves. Still at 25 I had saves in the high 50's which was more than enough at the time. Now you may need more for EE Raids/shadowfell stuff, but since OP is probably going to be running EH and the occasional EE it should be perfect.

What 3 levels of a class would you add for more diversity and utility?

None. On the forums it is 100% impossible to make any other kind of Archer that doesn't have at least 12 monk. Thinking differently is a travesty against all of the great minds here that have spent years trying nothing new or different.

[TheLegendOfAra]

None. On the forums it is 100% impossible to make any other kind of Archer that doesn't have at least 12 monk. Thinking differently is a travesty against all of the great minds here that have spent years trying nothing new or different.

Died.

The saddest thing I've noticed about this game isn't the bugs, or the exploiting...
It's the fact we have the most flexible building system of any MMO I've ever seen, and the majority of the player base is all.
"HurrDurr, what's the next FOTM build I can follow? Cause everything else is gimp! Hurrrrr".

[Pala-forged]

Died.

The saddest thing I've noticed about this game isn't the bugs, or the exploiting...
It's the fact we have the most flexible building system of any MMO I've ever seen, and the majority of the player base is all.
"HurrDurr, what's the next FOTM build I can follow? Cause everything else is gimp! Hurrrrr".

Hey, just because my builds are the next FOTM doesn't mean I copy others.

My melee sorc will catch on.. working it's insidious 6 paladin tentacles into you..

[TheLegendOfAra]

Hey, just because my builds are the next FOTM doesn't mean I copy others.

My melee sorc will catch on.. working it's insidious 6 paladin tentacles into you..

I prefer my Sorcs to be poorly geared fleshies dual wielding Khopesh's tyvm. :p
Seriously though, once I cap my current life on my main I was looking at TRing on of my other toons, and my Sorc was a contender...
Just need to come up with a build. lol

[Pala-forged]

I prefer my Sorcs to be poorly geared fleshies dual wielding Khopesh's tyvm. :p
Seriously though, once I cap my current life on my main I was looking at TRing on of my other toons, and my Sorc was a contender...
Just need to come up with a build. lol

12/6/2 sorc/pally/monk, use greataxes. Don't bother with t5 in anything. Get defensive stance+saves from pally, some dps against undead/evil from pally, nothing much from monk (D:), few points to waste in Ek

Or use a staff, swap monk for rogue and use a stick.

Show those sorc's how a staff was meant to be used.
With great force.