Thinking of a druid caster build- few questions

[Hirosue]

I haven't played a druid yet and thought that i would like to play a caster druid as i have build many melee casters in the past.

want to make a 20 druid not multi-classed

My main has past life's

3 x wizard
3 x sorc
3 x Fvs

I was thinking about going Half-Elf with monk dilettante which nets- 40% healing amp + 3 spell pen and 100 extra spell points and +2 wisdom all from the racial tree(25ap)

been reading these forums a fair bit and a lot of people are going human .I would assume for the extra feat and heal amp ?

Does human offer so much more than half elf ?

Inclining towards Evoker type build

any suggestions appreciated

thanks

p.s i have lots of gear. was thinking revers refuge robe with 10% ans 20% healing amp plus 30 % gloves plus HE would make very survivable druid

[Grailhawk]

I haven't played a druid yet and thought that i would like to play a caster druid as i have build many melee casters in the past.

want to make a 20 druid not multi-classed

My main has past life's

3 x wizard
3 x sorc
3 x Fvs

I was thinking about going Half-Elf with monk dilettante which nets- 40% healing amp + 3 spell pen and 100 extra spell points and +2 wisdom all from the racial tree(25ap)

been reading these forums a fair bit and a lot of people are going human .I would assume for the extra feat and heal amp ?

Does human offer so much more than half elf ?

Inclining towards Evoker type build

any suggestions appreciated

thanks

p.s i have lots of gear. was thinking revers refuge robe with 10% ans 20% healing amp plus 30 % gloves plus HE would make very survivable druid

I personally think Human is better but Helf is the only other race I've even thought about using the +1 Wisdom over human makes it a very good choice if not the best.

Pure 20 Caster Druid is pretty simple to build take the 2-3 Metamagic feats (Max, Empower, Quicken being my choices) take the all the DC (Spell focus (Evocation) + Wiz Past Life), then fit in either defensive feat like dodge, toughness, Epic toughness, or Spell Point (mental toughness)

[unbongwah]

I was thinking about going Half-Elf with monk dilettante which nets- 40% healing amp + 3 spell pen and 100 extra spell points and +2 wisdom all from the racial tree(25ap)
Too expensive, IMHO - I'd rather have the extra feat from human and put more APs into druid - but certainly doable.

Since you've clearly played casters before, I presume you already know how to build them. The specific advice concerning druids:

Most DPS spells are Evocation, so naturally that's the school you focus on. But Storm of Vengeance is Conjuration and it's probably my favorite druid spell; closest thing we get to Meteor Swarm. Not necessarily the most effective, just the one which looks coolest. Just because we dress in twigs & leaves strategically stapled together (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Leaves_of_the_Forest_%28Level_24%29) doesn't mean we shouldn't have style. :cool:
Druids only have two major spells with Spell Pen checks - Finger of Death & Word of Balance - so I usually skip investing in Spell Pen; just not worth it for two spells. [Howl of Terror also has Spell Pen check, I think, but I almost never use it.]
The main drawback to druids is almost all of our DPS is elemental, so we're weak against resistant mobs. FoD, WoB, Sunburst, Splinterbolt, and Salt Ray are basically our only options for those mobs.

[Panzermeyer]

Here is a great evoker build. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/434207-Evoker

I go human for the extra feat.

With the past lives, I really wouldn't bother with Spell Pen, except for maybe one to open up some ED options.

I actually run with Enlarge for the SLA's since those are my staple spells.
Being able to dot things up before they can even see me is great.

I run with the Fire Ellie Shiradi option that is described in the Evoker thread above, though I am not a completionist.

Druid's are a ton of fun, and I am very happy with my caster druid.

[Doutrinador]

Here is a great evoker build. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/434207-Evoker

I go human for the extra feat.

With the past lives, I really wouldn't bother with Spell Pen, except for maybe one to open up some ED options.

I actually run with Enlarge for the SLA's since those are my staple spells.
Being able to dot things up before they can even see me is great.

I run with the Fire Ellie Shiradi option that is described in the Evoker thread above, though I am not a completionist.

Druid's are a ton of fun, and I am very happy with my caster druid.

Hi, i would like to make a caster druid in my next life, maybe you can help me:

1- Flame blade looks like a good way to save SP. What to you think about take TWF and ITWF and use this spell for some meele?
2- Never played a druid, a caster use the animal form? when?
3- what is best: summer or winter? What spell power i have to invest more?

Thx

[Fhauvial]

3- what is best: summer or winter? What spell power i have to invest more?

Thx

Greater Creeping Cold is a fantastic DoT spell. You could make an argument for Winter on that spell alone.

[Panzermeyer]

Hi, i would like to make a caster druid in my next life, maybe you can help me:

1- Flame blade looks like a good way to save SP. What to you think about take TWF and ITWF and use this spell for some meele?
2- Never played a druid, a caster use the animal form? when?
3- what is best: summer or winter? What spell power i have to invest more?

Thx

As a caster druid, I have never bothered with melee or animal forms. Elemental forms all the way. I wwouldn't bother with TWF feat lines as a caster druid, that will impact the metas you are able to get for casting.

That being said, animal forms and flame blades and such work great in the lower heroic levels to level. By the teens you should be dropping animal forms and going strictly casting.

You are constantly switching between summer and winter. So you will want to invest in both cold and fire spell power. Which you focus on more strongly depends on the quest (are things fire resistant? Cold resistant?) and what epic destiny you end up running in.

You build for it being in Draconic and Water Ellie are powerful. That being said Greater Creeping Cold is probably the best DoT in the game.

I run in Fire Ellie and focus on fire with my main mode of combat being dropping an earthquake, fire wall, body of the sun, and call lightning and just stand in the middle of the earthquake. I am in Shiradi and these four spells drop so many shiradi procs it is fun to watch. The only time I jump around in that AOE is on EE.

But either way, as a druid every five minutes you are cycling through winter and summer. I still use Creeping Cold and Greater Creeping Cold all the time. I just know that it is not doing quite as much damage as it would if I was in Water Ellie form. But I run based on procs, and get more with my fire spells.

So basically it depends on your playstyle.

Basically Water Ellie and Draconic more raw nuking DPS, generally slightly lower earthquake DCs.
Fire Ellie and Shiradi for more Proc and Earthquake CC, but a bit longer to kill stuff.

[unbongwah]

Greater Creeping Cold is a fantastic DoT spell. You could make an argument for Winter on that spell alone.
For single-target DPS, it's hard to beat Freezing Spray -> Gtr Creeping Cold -> Creeping Cold. Tell the monkchers with icy-bursted bows to gang up on your target too. ;) For AoEs, it's hard to beat Icy Mantle (Reflex debuff) + Ice Storm + Earthquake + Storm of Vengeance; now you've got a whole bunch of prone mobs taking blunt, cold, lightning, and acid dmg.

[Panzermeyer]

Greater Creeping Cold is a fantastic DoT spell. You could make an argument for Winter on that spell alone.

Absolutely.

[Doutrinador]

As a caster druid, I have never bothered with melee or animal forms. Elemental forms all the way. I wwouldn't bother with TWF feat lines as a caster druid, that will impact the metas you are able to get for casting.

That being said, animal forms and flame blades and such work great in the lower heroic levels to level. By the teens you should be dropping animal forms and going strictly casting.

You are constantly switching between summer and winter. So you will want to invest in both cold and fire spell power. Which you focus on more strongly depends on the quest (are things fire resistant? Cold resistant?) and what epic destiny you end up running in.

You build for it being in Draconic and Water Ellie are powerful. That being said Greater Creeping Cold is probably the best DoT in the game.

I run in Fire Ellie and focus on fire with my main mode of combat being dropping an earthquake, fire wall, body of the sun, and call lightning and just stand in the middle of the earthquake. I am in Shiradi and these four spells drop so many shiradi procs it is fun to watch. The only time I jump around in that AOE is on EE.

But either way, as a druid every five minutes you are cycling through winter and summer. I still use Creeping Cold and Greater Creeping Cold all the time. I just know that it is not doing quite as much damage as it would if I was in Water Ellie form. But I run based on procs, and get more with my fire spells.

So basically it depends on your playstyle.

Basically Water Ellie and Draconic more raw nuking DPS, generally slightly lower earthquake DCs.
Fire Ellie and Shiradi for more Proc and Earthquake CC, but a bit longer to kill stuff.

Thx for the reply,

For shiradi i have to raise diplo? In low lvls, better meele in animal for + flame blade + shild (to save mana)?

I know that I have to raise wis and cons, what abought the others stats? better raise dex for reflex and AC or Intel or skill points? Or STR for melee in low lvls?

I can be a water elemental and cast fire spells?


Thx again.

[Panzermeyer]

For shiradi i have to raise diplo?

I actually don't bother with diplo. Earthquake has to be the best CC spell in the game. I am still grinding lives out and so am not fully specced for DC's. I run around with a DC in the high 40's. I have no problems hitting most things on EH content and still hit most stuff on at level EE content about 70% of the time. When standing in my earthquake the only usually hitting me are the casters that aren't in the earthquake. But either way you should have more than enough skill points to put in diplo.


In low lvls, better meele in animal for + flame blade + shild (to save mana)

In the leveling process on Heroic you are doing melee, cause you really don't have much in the way of damage spells yet. So it's easier to cruise through fighting in animal form. Once you get ice storm or firewall you can start to go pure caster.


I know that I have to raise wis and cons, what abought the others stats? better raise dex for reflex and AC or Intel or skill points? Or STR for melee in low lvls?

I put all my stats points into Wis and then equally into Con and Int. Int because that will end up being my DC for Energy Burst. The additional skill points are nice. But Energy Burst's DC's are based INT or CHA. You get more utility with skill points out of Int and I also took insightful reflexes to boost my reflex saves. Everything else I left at default starting stats.

Unless you are planning on doing a LR at higher levels, don't put anything in making a melee build at lower levels, build to be a caster, but be a melee at the lower levels. Any other way and you will be decreasing your effectiveness at casting at higher levels.

That being said, there are a ton of great successful melee druid builds, and some hybrid melee/caster builds. Check those out. I really did not like the animations and movement of being in animal form. Just my personal preference. I am strictly a caster build. The only time I go animal form in final fight in Von 5, since the construct gets healed by all elements and is immune to force. So I am basically useless. Then I just drop into bear form to feel like I am contributing something, even though it is very very little (outside healing)


I can be a water elemental and cast fire spells?

Absolutely and via versa. Being in the either form just boosts one while giving you a slight penalty to the other. There are a few spells that can only be used in one form or another. A couple buffs, and a few offensive spells. Like body of the sun can only be used in Fire Ellie form. While there are a could of cold spells that can only be used in Water Ellie form. There is like 2-4 for each. Again just give each a try and figure out which on you like best for your playstyle. Both options are very effective.

[Panzermeyer]

Hi, i would like to make a caster druid in my next life, maybe you can help me:

Just to be clear I speak a lot more from a Epic level caster druid. If you are just looking to get a Druid past life out of the way. Making more of a melee/caster hybrid is probably fine. Firewall and earthquake while smacking stuff should be very viable in Heroic content.

It just tends to be better to pick your poison (casting or melee) for Epic content.

And if you are planning for epic content, then build for epic content.

[unbongwah]

In the leveling process on Heroic you are doing melee, cause you really don't have much in the way of damage spells yet. So it's easier to cruise through fighting in animal form.
Maybe for Korthos you need to melee, but by the end of lvl 3 you should have two SLAs (Produce Flame & Creeping Cold), as well as their regular versions; at that point, I don't think you need to melee any more than the average wiz does. Takedown is nice CC, but presuming a typical STR-dumped WIS-based caster druid build, you'd probably be better off using Flame Blade for occasional melee, rather than wolf form.

[Doutrinador]

I actually don't bother with diplo. Earthquake has to be the best CC spell in the game. I am still grinding lives out and so am not fully specced for DC's. I run around with a DC in the high 40's. I have no problems hitting most things on EH content and still hit most stuff on at level EE content about 70% of the time. When standing in my earthquake the only usually hitting me are the casters that aren't in the earthquake. But either way you should have more than enough skill points to put in diplo.



In the leveling process on Heroic you are doing melee, cause you really don't have much in the way of damage spells yet. So it's easier to cruise through fighting in animal form. Once you get ice storm or firewall you can start to go pure caster.



I put all my stats points into Wis and then equally into Con and Int. Int because that will end up being my DC for Energy Burst. The additional skill points are nice. But Energy Burst's DC's are based INT or CHA. You get more utility with skill points out of Int and I also took insightful reflexes to boost my reflex saves. Everything else I left at default starting stats.

Unless you are planning on doing a LR at higher levels, don't put anything in making a melee build at lower levels, build to be a caster, but be a melee at the lower levels. Any other way and you will be decreasing your effectiveness at casting at higher levels.

That being said, there are a ton of great successful melee druid builds, and some hybrid melee/caster builds. Check those out. I really did not like the animations and movement of being in animal form. Just my personal preference. I am strictly a caster build. The only time I go animal form in final fight in Von 5, since the construct gets healed by all elements and is immune to force. So I am basically useless. Then I just drop into bear form to feel like I am contributing something, even though it is very very little (outside healing)



Absolutely and via versa. Being in the either form just boosts one while giving you a slight penalty to the other. There are a few spells that can only be used in one form or another. A couple buffs, and a few offensive spells. Like body of the sun can only be used in Fire Ellie form. While there are a could of cold spells that can only be used in Water Ellie form. There is like 2-4 for each. Again just give each a try and figure out which on you like best for your playstyle. Both options are very effective.


Thx :)

[Hirosue]

Thank you for the replies and information provided which i found very useful

[Panzermeyer]

I actually don't bother with diplo. Earthquake has to be the best CC spell in the game. I am still grinding lives out and so am not fully specced for DC's. I run around with a DC in the high 40's. I have no problems hitting most things on EH content and still hit most stuff on at level EE content about 70% of the time. When standing in my earthquake the only usually hitting me are the casters that aren't in the earthquake. But either way you should have more than enough skill points to put in diplo.


So just soloed Line's of Supply last nite on EH.

With a 45 Diplo (half from items) I diplo the harpy matron and got her to fight for me. Unfortunately she took a lot of mana to beat and I had to get back to the quest entrance to shrine.

Then the main fight with the supply carries.

Actually I was farming for XP for the new Divine Crusader ED so wasn't even in Shiradi. Sat in front of where the troops come out. Earthquake and ice storm. Followed up by Energy bursts and Creeping cold on those that managed to get up and get through the earth quake.

Not a single supply carrier made it through, not even the zippy gnolls.

So hope that gives you an idea of what to expect from druid CC.

[Xormax]

I wanted the same things you did when I was making a druid caster. I only have 3 Sorc past lives though. My ultimate goal was to either make everything lay down with a high earthquake dc or blind everything with dual sunbursts/sunbeam. I also went Ice elemental with winter for the -4 to reflex saves when damaged by cold spells. I went human for the extra feat. I took the following feats: maximize, empower, heighten, quicken, toughness, spell focus evocation, greater spell focus evocation and mental toughness. For epic feats I took, Epic spell focus evo, epic spell power cold (I don't any destinies really maxed), great wisdom x2 and mass frog (so much fun!). Starting stats were 18Wis, 18 Con and rest into Int. Here was my DC in EN Dual dragon raid.

http://i.imgur.com/IeJp1YW.jpg

I only have a +10 wisdom item and +4 wis tome, yugo pot, supreme ability pot and skill boost and being in shiradi. My standing DC without ship buffs is 63. Hand buffed its 67. That is for both sunburst and earthquake. Even salt ray is that high at that level which is really nice. I also made a teir 2 Evo staff out of the new stuff. However, even when I had a 60 DC, it still worked really well in EE's. I hope that helps.

EDIT: Didn't know the +2 evo augment stacked with all my other stuff. So now my standing Buffed is 68.

[Panzermeyer]

I wanted the same things you did when I was making a druid caster. I only have 3 Sorc past lives though. My ultimate goal was to either make everything lay down with a high earthquake dc or blind everything with dual sunbursts/sunbeam. I also went Ice elemental with winter for the -4 to reflex saves when damaged by cold spells. I went human for the extra feat. I took the following feats: maximize, empower, heighten, quicken, toughness, spell focus evocation, greater spell focus evocation and mental toughness. For epic feats I took, Epic spell focus evo, epic spell power cold (I don't any destinies really maxed), great wisdom x2 and mass frog (so much fun!). Starting stats were 18Wis, 18 Con and rest into Int. Here was my DC in EN Dual dragon raid.

I only have a +10 wisdom item and +4 wis tome, yugo pot, supreme ability pot and skill boost and being in shiradi. My standing DC without ship buffs is 63. Hand buffed its 67. That is for both sunburst and earthquake. Even salt ray is that high at that level which is really nice. I also made a teir 2 Evo staff out of the new stuff. However, even when I had a 60 DC, it still worked really well in EE's. I hope that helps.

EDIT: Didn't know the +2 evo augment stacked with all my other stuff. So now my standing Buffed is 68.

Can you provide a bit more of a break down of your Earthquake DC?

[SirValentine]

Can you provide a bit more of a break down of your Earthquake DC?

I can't give you HIS breakdown, but a 68 buffed seems pretty reasonable. Max sustainable these days for a pure Druid is probably more like 75. I haven't updated it for the increases in U21 (& Patch 1), but as of U19, I'd come up with a max Evo DC of 70 for a Druid. Breakdowns in this older thread: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422593-Post-expansion-DC-divine-theory-crafting

[Xormax]

To get a 68 Sustainable, I have the following.

18 Starting Wis
+7 Ability point level ups
+5 Wisdom Enhancements
+2 Druid Capstone
+2 Great Wisdom (took twice)
+4 Wisdom Tome
+10 Wisdom Item
+2 Insightful Wisdom Item
+1 Wisdom Twisted in
+6 Wisdom From Shiradi
+1 Wisdom from True Imperial Globe
+2 Ship Buff
---------
60 Wisdom with a modifier of 25

Things to boost my DC:
+2 Evocation Augment
+6 Equipment Bonus from Thunderforge Staff
+1 Exceptional from Thunderforge Staff
+1 Profane from Shadow Scale Robe
+3 Sorc Past Lives
+2 From Precise Evocation Twist (Draconic)
+3 From Evocation Specialist Twist (Magister)
+1 From Strength of the Solstice (Seasons Herald tier 5)
------
19 From Twist/items

Feats:
+1 Spell Focus Evocation
+1 Greater Spell Focus Evocation
+1 Epic Spell Focus Evocation
+1 Heighten
------
4 From Feats

Earthquake DC is 10 + Spell Level + Wisdom Stat Modifier + Items + Feats = DC

So 10+8+25+19+4= 66 without yugo pots or supreme ability pots (68 with pots). If you heighten sunburst/salt ray they are effective even in epic content with 68 saves on both. The Mass frog DC is somewhere around 50, works really well on skeletons.

Still a lot of work to go.... But definitely not needed. My 68 seems overkill. Hope this helps.

[Panzermeyer]

To get a 68 Sustainable, I have the following.

18 Starting Wis
+7 Ability point level ups
+5 Wisdom Enhancements
+2 Druid Capstone
+2 Great Wisdom (took twice)
+4 Wisdom Tome
+10 Wisdom Item
+2 Insightful Wisdom Item
+1 Wisdom Twisted in
+6 Wisdom From Shiradi
+1 Wisdom from True Imperial Globe
+2 Ship Buff
---------
60 Wisdom with a modifier of 25

Things to boost my DC:
+2 Evocation Augment
+6 Equipment Bonus from Thunderforge Staff
+1 Exceptional from Thunderforge Staff
+1 Profane from Shadow Scale Robe
+3 Sorc Past Lives
+2 From Precise Evocation Twist (Draconic)
+3 From Evocation Specialist Twist (Magister)
+1 From Strength of the Solstice (Seasons Herald tier 5)
------
19 From Twist/items

Feats:
+1 Spell Focus Evocation
+1 Greater Spell Focus Evocation
+1 Epic Spell Focus Evocation
+1 Heighten
------
4 From Feats

Earthquake DC is 10 + Spell Level + Wisdom Stat Modifier + Items + Feats = DC

So 10+8+25+19+4= 66 without yugo pots or supreme ability pots (68 with pots). If you heighten sunburst/salt ray they are effective even in epic content with 68 saves on both. The Mass frog DC is somewhere around 50, works really well on skeletons.

Still a lot of work to go.... But definitely not needed. My 68 seems overkill. Hope this helps.

Thanks for this break down Xor. Appreciate it. While SirValentine's thread is nice, I did not have the patient to wade through the clutter to find the Druid specific comments on DC's.

[Xormax]

It's all good. As you can see, there is not really a whole lot of named gear to my build that makes it uber.If you have any other questions and you're on the Khyber server feel free to ask away. Toon names: Glynaa, Tvux or Viaus.

[Doutrinador]

As a caster druid, I have never bothered with melee or animal forms. Elemental forms all the way. I wwouldn't bother with TWF feat lines as a caster druid, that will impact the metas you are able to get for casting.

That being said, animal forms and flame blades and such work great in the lower heroic levels to level. By the teens you should be dropping animal forms and going strictly casting.

You are constantly switching between summer and winter. So you will want to invest in both cold and fire spell power. Which you focus on more strongly depends on the quest (are things fire resistant? Cold resistant?) and what epic destiny you end up running in.

You build for it being in Draconic and Water Ellie are powerful. That being said Greater Creeping Cold is probably the best DoT in the game.

I run in Fire Ellie and focus on fire with my main mode of combat being dropping an earthquake, fire wall, body of the sun, and call lightning and just stand in the middle of the earthquake. I am in Shiradi and these four spells drop so many shiradi procs it is fun to watch. The only time I jump around in that AOE is on EE.

But either way, as a druid every five minutes you are cycling through winter and summer. I still use Creeping Cold and Greater Creeping Cold all the time. I just know that it is not doing quite as much damage as it would if I was in Water Ellie form. But I run based on procs, and get more with my fire spells.

So basically it depends on your playstyle.

Basically Water Ellie and Draconic more raw nuking DPS, generally slightly lower earthquake DCs.
Fire Ellie and Shiradi for more Proc and Earthquake CC, but a bit longer to kill stuff.


I cant be water elemental and go Shiradi?

[unbongwah]

I cant be water elemental and go Shiradi?
You can, but for some reason the Shiradi procs only occur on the initial tic of your cold DoTs; yet they can proc on every tic of your fire DoTs (i.e., firewall, Body of the Sun). Thus there's more Shiradi synergy with fire elem than ice elem form.

That said, IMHO part of being a good caster druid involves knowing when to switch forms to exploit your season and/or adjust tactics for what you're fighting.

[Grailhawk]

You can, but for some reason the Shiradi procs only occur on the initial tic of your cold DoTs; yet they can proc on every tic of your fire DoTs (i.e., firewall, Body of the Sun). Thus there's more Shiradi synergy with fire elem than ice elem form.

I would counter that Nerve Venom makes Shiradi have as much synergy with water as fire from. Water from is where you are when you want to CC (do to -4 reflex saves from Icy Mantle) Nerve Venom adds a tremendous bounce to CC combo of Earthquake, Ice Storm, and Sleet Storm.

[unbongwah]

I would counter that Nerve Venom makes Shiradi have as much synergy with water as fire from. Water from is where you are when you want to CC (do to -4 reflex saves from Icy Mantle) Nerve Venom adds a tremendous bounce to CC combo of Earthquake, Ice Storm, and Sleet Storm.
If you can afford the SP cost, you can start out in ice elem form + Icy Mantle to fire off your cold spells for DPS + debuffs, then switch to fire elem + Body of the Sun to get the best of both forms. Add in Earthquake & Storm of Vengeance for more good times. :)

[Grailhawk]

If you can afford the SP cost, you can start out in ice elem form + Icy Mantle to fire off your cold spells for DPS + debuffs, then switch to fire elem + Body of the Sun to get the best of both forms. Add in Earthquake & Storm of Vengeance for more good times. :)

AKA Shiradi is a good ED for a Druid regardless of from :)

[Doutrinador]

AKA Shiradi is a good ED for a Druid regardless of from :)

I am testing Shiradi in my lvl 20 cleric, that i will TR on a druid caster. I have rainbow, but rarely see the extra damage in any spell: blade barrier, sun bean, sun bolt, searing light, flame strike. Its only 7%? It really works?

Thx

[Cardtrick]

I am testing Shiradi in my lvl 20 cleric, that i will TR on a druid caster. I have rainbow, but rarely see the extra damage in any spell: blade barrier, sun bean, sun bolt, searing light, flame strike. Its only 7%? It really works?

Thx

Rainbow is nice, but it's actually a pretty small portion of what Shiradi gets you. The damage procs from the cores and the paralysis from nerve venom are generally much more important.

Also, most of the spells you listed will only have one proc chance. Shiradi really thrives on spells that have multiple procs. (Body of the Sun, for example.)

[Doutrinador]

Rainbow is nice, but it's actually a pretty small portion of what Shiradi gets you. The damage procs from the cores and the paralysis from nerve venom are generally much more important.

Also, most of the spells you listed will only have one proc chance. Shiradi really thrives on spells that have multiple procs. (Body of the Sun, for example.)

thx

[unbongwah]

Shiradi really thrives on spells that have multiple procs. (Body of the Sun, for example.)
I've not taken a divine (or arty) thru Shiradi yet: if you kite mobs thru BB, can Shiradi procs happen on every hit, or just the first one?

[Cardtrick]

I've not taken a divine (or arty) thru Shiradi yet: if you kite mobs thru BB, can Shiradi procs happen on every hit, or just the first one?

They can happen on every hit if you're kiting. That was the exception that made me use the word "most."

I'm far from a Shiradi expert, but I did try it out a bit on my favored soul. I definitely got some mileage out of Shiradi procs on Blade Barrier.

[Doutrinador]

They can happen on every hit if you're kiting. That was the exception that made me use the word "most."

I'm far from a Shiradi expert, but I did try it out a bit on my favored soul. I definitely got some mileage out of Shiradi procs on Blade Barrier.

Last question (will TR tomorow):

- It is a good idea to take 2 or 4 lvl of FVS? It would me more a direct damage dealer than a CC, what do you guys think?

[Xormax]

Last question (will TR tomorow):

- It is a good idea to take 2 or 4 lvl of FVS? It would me more a direct damage dealer than a CC, what do you guys think?

Dunno about this one. Most druid spells require some sort of DC. Many of which require a reflex save or fortitude save. It'd be pointless (In my opinion which doesn't matter at all) to try and go for damage if everything is making a reflex save or fortitude save and doing half to nothing in damage. Yea the 3k damage lightning strike is amazing.... If the mob doesn't save. Don't get me wrong, Druids can pump out some damage, but in the words of my nerdbilly Pappy "They ain't be no Sorc".

[Cardtrick]

Last question (will TR tomorow):

- It is a good idea to take 2 or 4 lvl of FVS? It would me more a direct damage dealer than a CC, what do you guys think?

I'm not by any means a druid expert, but I agree with Xormax -- it seems like a bad fit. I love the 2 FvS splash on a sorcerer, but I think a caster druid should be built primarily for DC. Especially since there's not a ton of synergy anyway -- a direct damage druid would presumably be casting a lot of Creeping Cold and Greater Creeping Cold, which don't trigger Just Rewards. It's not like a direct damage sorcerer or wizard spamming scorching ray and the various missile spells.

[Xormax]

I'm not by any means a druid expert, but I agree with Xormax -- it seems like a bad fit. I love the 2 FvS splash on a sorcerer, but I think a caster druid should be built primarily for DC. Especially since there's not a ton of synergy anyway -- a direct damage druid would presumably be casting a lot of Creeping Cold and Greater Creeping Cold, which don't trigger Just Rewards. It's not like a direct damage sorcerer or wizard spamming scorching ray and the various missile spells.

Not to mention you could just kiss that SP good by quickly. Druids get plenty of SP but if you're constantly having to fight DC's, you're having to cast twice as much.

[unbongwah]

- It is a good idea to take 2 or 4 lvl of FVS? It would me more a direct damage dealer than a CC, what do you guys think?
Druids have a lot fewer spells that benefit from AoV bonuses than arcane casters do. Druids don't get the 3 Missile spells, Burning Hands, Scorch, Scorching Ray, Fireball, DBF, and Meteor Swarm, all of which benefit from Scourge & Just Reward procs.

There are some synergies - Produce Flame, Salt Ray, Flame Strike, Firewall, and Body of the Sun should all benefit from AoV - but not enough to be worth splashing, IMHO. Both the best and worst thing about druid casters is the versatility of their spell list; they can't minmax for any role or element the way other casters can, but it also means they don't get pigeon-holed as much if you build them right. Furthermore, Earthquake & Storm of Vengeance are the two best druid-specific AoE spells; I wouldn't do anything which sacrificed their effectiveness.

EDIT: I don't think Ice Storm and Earthquake benefit from AoV, since they do blunt dmg, not Force; but I've never tested to be sure.

[Doutrinador]

Druids have a lot fewer spells that benefit from AoV bonuses than arcane casters do. Druids don't get the 3 Missile spells, Burning Hands, Scorch, Scorching Ray, Fireball, DBF, and Meteor Swarm, all of which benefit from Scourge & Just Reward procs.

There are some synergies - Produce Flame, Salt Ray, Flame Strike, Firewall, and Body of the Sun should all benefit from AoV - but not enough to be worth splashing, IMHO. Both the best and worst thing about druid casters is the versatility of their spell list; they can't minmax for any role or element the way other casters can, but it also means they don't get pigeon-holed as much if you build them right. Furthermore, Earthquake & Storm of Vengeance are the two best druid-specific AoE spells; I wouldn't do anything which sacrificed their effectiveness.

EDIT: I don't think Ice Storm and Earthquake benefit from AoV, since they do blunt dmg, not Force; but I've never tested to be sure.

Thx all, pure druid caster will be

[Panzermeyer]

I cant be water elemental and go Shiradi?

Yes you can, you just get more from Shiradi being in Fire with Body of the Sun and boosts to Firewall. You will get more Shiradi ticks.

But even when I am in Shiradi when I come up to bosses that I am mainly just going to be dotting, or things immune/resistant to fire, I have no problem dropping over to Water Ellie form.

Just use it as a guideline.

But yes overall, you get more opportunities for Shiradi Procs from Fire Ellie than from Water Ellie.

[Panzermeyer]

I am testing Shiradi in my lvl 20 cleric, that i will TR on a druid caster. I have rainbow, but rarely see the extra damage in any spell: blade barrier, sun bean, sun bolt, searing light, flame strike. Its only 7%? It really works?

Thx

Well without seeing what level you are total in Shiradi.

If you are Rainbow, let's just say that you are 3rd level Shiradi.

You Have Rainbow, based on Prism stance. You will also have Favorable Winds from the base tier.

EACH of these have a 7% chance of firing.

So...

7% chance of 5d10 sonic.
7% chance of 2d10 stat damage
7% chance of 1d100 random damage


This is not a 7% chance of one but each is a separate chance so it is possible that all three can fire off from one spell.

Now at teir 5 you also have a second Favorable Wind and Fey Power from base, and hopefully if you have taken them, Double Rainbow and Never Venom.

That adds...

7% chance of Paralysis
7% of random effect
Upgrades 7% of 10d10 sonic
7% of 2d100 force


For a total of 6 possible individual 7% effects to fire off on a spell or each tick of a spell.

Now imagine you are in Fire Form, with Body of the Sun, Call Lightning, standing in an Earthquake and Firewall.

One total tick (a tick from each spell) gives you the base spell damage and effect, you have 24 additional possibles effects and/or damage boosts going off.

It all adds up super quick.

[Panzermeyer]

Last question (will TR tomorow):

- It is a good idea to take 2 or 4 lvl of FVS? It would me more a direct damage dealer than a CC, what do you guys think?

I wouldn't put any FVS in a druid caster build.

Anything but pure will seriously compromise your Earthquake DC if not geared/built properly.

I personally wouldn't risk losing the best CC spell just for some direct damage.

I have very little need for direct damage as a druid caster anyways. It is all easily covered already.

Besides the best druid direct damage is Creeping Cold and Greater Creeping cold, and no FvS enhancements will boost your cold damage.

[geoffhanna]

Here's one that has some numbers filled in: http://www.gamergeoff.com/the-freezer-burn-the-most-dominant-heroic-build-ever-played-so-far/

I built it Halfling, and it hasn't hurt as the build does not need extra feats or characteristics, but if I had it to do over I'd probably go Human for the extra point of WIS and give it the Dragonmark of Passage.

I only played mine up to level 20 (and it was AWESOME!) but my wife has played hers up to 28 and loves it.

So there you go, hope you find it helpful.

[unbongwah]

Anything but pure will seriously compromise your Earthquake DC if not geared/built properly.
Pure druid vs monk splash is a wash as far as Earthquake DCs go: +2 WIS from capstone vs +2 WIS from Ocean stance.

Capstone also provides "Conjuration and Transmutation spells gain +2 DC, +2 caster level and +2 max caster level." The only Conj spell which I care about is Storm of Vengeance and upping the CL only extends its duration; but I like SoV enough that almost justifies staying pure on its own. :)

[thegreatneil]

.

EDIT: I don't think Ice Storm and Earthquake benefit from AoV, since they do blunt dmg, not Force; but I've never tested to be sure.

EQ is bludgeoning damage (but works like force), and does proc Scourge & Just Reward.
(tested on lama last update) did not test ice storm , but it should as well.

from wiki:

Re: Blade Barrier

Although Blade Barrier deals slashing damage, physical damage reduction does not apply to spells.
Damage boosts: Internally the damage is considered both slashing and untyped - thus it is affected by force damage enhancements. Impulse/Impact items increasing damage of blade barrier as they increase: Force, Untyped, Slashing, Piercing, Bludgeoning.

[Mandelia]

Two levels of fvs gets you an unending fountain of mana at the cost of 1 to your dcs for a druid. You will never, ever notice the difference to your earthquake.

[Doutrinador]

Two levels of fvs gets you an unending fountain of mana at the cost of 1 to your dcs for a druid. You will never, ever notice the difference to your earthquake.


I did TR on that Cleric and i am a lvl 6 druid, its very nice, can get 450 damage from call lighting SLA in crit (normally 220). Thx for all replies.
My char name is Taumante, server - Thelanis.

[Hirosue]

Update.

I reached level 21 a few days ago on my caster druid. Over all it was a very fun character to level up .Reading these forums, asking for advice and getting some feedback to ideas certainly helped me build a viable caster druid.

After a lot of consideration i went with half-elf evoker type build with monk dilettante for extra spell points and 40% healing amp and True neutral alignment.

To level up i played through every quest from 1-18 one time on elite with full BB and streak. Half elf works just fine as a druid caster .However i could see the benefits of going human and taking insightful reflexes if building a caster.

Personally i found the first few levels quite dull due to being build with caster stats.However once i started to get SLAs the fun ramped up very quickly.

To any new druid players or people considering druids reading this , i would recommend that you definitely build with SLAs in mind . They do great damage ( i took maximize and quicken very early.) and are fun.Mixing SLAs in with regular spells allowed my caster to pretty much never run out of spell points.

I had 9 past lives and a lot of leveling gear though.

Defenses are defiantly an issue with caster druid if you are planning to run Epic Elites , and mobs hit so hard. You will find it much easier if you get a displacement clicky and blurry item ,especially if soloing.

At level 21 my druid has 50 Wisdom and 3250 spell points.Earthquake dice check of about 53 which drops most mobs in EE quests at level i.e 20-23 lvl range. I have will be able to get a few more Dc as i level up and get better gear.

If i was to redo it , i think i would go elf with dragon mark for ,invisi and displacement SlAs. In the past i have played WF casters with reconstruct and displacement so i was used to having defenses which means survival in EE questing. In addition if going caster these does seem to be some legroom for multi-classing .I am euro timezone and as leveled posted every quest on the LFM as a PUg.

Very often the groups wouldn't fill at all or only half fill. bear in mind i am doing every quest at level at elite, with streak, the most desirable group to join XP wise.Taking 1 or 2 of rogue would give evasion and trapping so i would consider that especially if planning solo.

Im going to post my build for anyone who is interested, its is pretty much the evoker build with a few changes, especially using SLAs and of course going Half -Elf.

To conclude i would definitely recommend playing a caster druid. If you haven't rolled one up yet you should. Its a lot of fun and gives a very different game play experience to other classes of caster .

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 28 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
(20 Druid / 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 420
Spell Points: 2273

BAB: 15/15/20/25/25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 7
Will: 24

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28) (Level 28)
Strength 8 12 12
Dexterity 8 12 12
Constitution 16 20 20
Intelligence 16 20 20
Wisdom 18 29 35
Charisma 8 12 12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28) (Level 28)
Balance -1 1 9
Bluff -1 1 9
Concentration 3 5 13
Diplomacy -1 1 9
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle -1 1 9
Heal 4 12 20
Hide -1 1 9
Intimidate -1 1 9
Jump -1 1 9
Listen 4 12 20
Move Silently -1 1 9
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 3 5 13
Search 3 5 13
Spellcraft 3 5 13
Spot 4 12 20
Swim -1 1 9
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Druid)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Call Wolf Companion
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Druidic Oath
Feat: (Automatic) Druidic Spontaneous Casting
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Mixed Heritage
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Social Graces (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Scimitar
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy

Level 2 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Goodberry
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip

Level 3 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell

Level 4 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS

Level 5 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Heroic Durability

Level 6 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Prodigy

Level 7 (Druid)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy

Level 8 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Winter Wolf

Level 9 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Poison Immunity

Level 10 (Druid)

Level 11 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear

Level 12 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness

Level 13 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Fire Elemental
Feat: (Automatic) Thousand Faces

Level 14 (Druid)

Level 15 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
Feat: (Automatic) Timeless Body

Level 16 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS

Level 17 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Water Elemental

Level 18 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation

Level 19 (Druid)

Level 20 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Half-Elven Versatile Nature (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Human Adaptability: Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Dilettante (Monk) (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Dilettante (Monk) (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Arcanum (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Arcanum (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Arcanumm (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Dilettante: Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Recovery II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Dilettante (Monk) (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Seasoned (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Time (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Tide (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Sunburst (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Storm of Vengeance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Hierophant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Season's Greetings: Summer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Season's Greetings: Summer (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Beguile (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Beguile (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Beguile (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Wax and Wane (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Produce Flame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Produce Flame (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Produce Flame (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Wax and Wane (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Creeping Cold (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Creeping Cold (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Creeping Cold (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Wax and Wane (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Spring Resurgence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Spring Resurgence (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Spring Resurgence (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Autumnal Susurrus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Autumnal Susurrus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Autumnal Susurrus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Call Lightning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Call Lightning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Call Lightning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Wax and Wane (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Crown of Summer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Winter's Heart (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Word of Balance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Word of Balance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Word of Balance (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Time and Tide (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Strength of the Solstice (Rank 1)

Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Mental Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Epic: Epic Skills

Level 22 (Epic)

Level 23 (Epic)

Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Spell Focus: Evocation

Level 25 (Epic)

Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny)) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Acid

Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed

Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Hellball

[Panzermeyer]

I would recommend drop Spic Spell Power Acid and Blinding Speed.

Really the only spell that uses Acid is Storm of Vengence. And the timer on the SLA is too long, and the regular spell too expensive to use a ton compared to other spells in epics.

Going Cold or Fire based on the form you run in the most is best.

Blinding Speed helps out melee s the most which you are not doing. Nothing that cannot be handled by striders/speed slotted somewhere.

Otherwise welcome to the druid caster ranks. =)

[SirValentine]

Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Hellball

I've never played with Hellball, and I'm not speaking against it at all, but as a Wisdom-based pure Druid caster, I hope you've at least considered Mass Frog here. It's awesome!