Revive button

[Singular]

Wow.

Played my gimp fighter today - die and immediately see a 'revive' button. 35 shards and get up via spirit cake. I guess everyone knew that cakes are available in the store - but this furthers the cheap, in your face, casino style of advertising p2w.

Could you guys try advertising to get more players in? Perhaps allocate programming time to making the game better instead of this kind of advertising?

[HackSlashKill]

it does feel cheap, doesn't it?

I can understand the need for revenue, and it brings me back to when if you got poisoned or cursed or whatever, and there would be a message appearing telling you there was stuff available in the store. Thank goodness they got rid of that, but have been slowly finding ways to bring it back in. eg shard counter, can't get rid of it. and now this new revive button

[Fedora1]

Yep and chest reroll.

I really wish they would do an ad/marketing campaign for new players rather than this kind of stuff, but whatever.

Some things I don't mind is the way they offer augments for shards at the various traders and gold seal hirelings for shards on a seperate tab at the hireling vendors. Those seem more subtle and less "in your face" than the impulse buys they try to catch you with when you die or your favorite named item doesn't show up in the chest.

[janave]

OP: Your suggestion is so spot on. Unless they are slowly and purposefully working their way to grade down the game.

New Players bring in the money for all the content, just gotta make the content attractive and high quality. This kind of Marketing is cheap effort to make the business do better.

A simple blogger who is enthusiastic about your game could bring 1000s of new players, they care to do such thing for free unless the game is already ruined by ingame ads, and p2w loot.

I am sure these ideas come from people who never spent more than 5 minutes in this game, and cares very little about its enduring on. Just sad really that they hold the creative decision.

[FestusHood]

I've seen many people asking for things to spend Astral shards on. Well here ya go. Not for me, but for people who might buy rez cakes from the store, it just makes it easier.

PS: Didn't i see something in the upcoming patch notes about an ability to hide this option?

[bartharok]

Im always surprised by how some people let minor annoyances turn huge, instead of just ignoring them.

[Vint]

Im always surprised by how some people let minor annoyances turn huge, instead of just ignoring them.

So I should squelch you before it becomes a major annoyance?

J/K love you long time.

[Nestroy]

This at last is a feature I can understand. 35 AS = about 175 TP. Could be a worse deal for a spirit cake.

[bartharok]

So I should squelch you before it becomes a major annoyance?

J/K love you long time.

I thought i WAS a major annoyance... Sigh, seems like i fail even at this...

[Weemadarthur]

Have to agree with the op here.

It still astounds me that there is no marketing behind this last update. HH is finally a quest that feels EPIC rather than something cobbled togeather last minute after too much pizza and beer. Thunderholme is sure to appeal to anyone who enjoyed part 2 of the Hobbit and looks fantastic.

Turbine in short you have actually delivered stuff that looks and feels like DnD. Why arent you cashing in on this rather than trying to alienate the few players that are still clinging on with cheap P2W tactics?

[Ivan_Milic]

You know what one free mmo I played years ago had?
Ads when you die and when on loading screen.
Just wait for turbine to do that.

[bartharok]

You know what one free mmo I played years ago had?
Ads when you die and when on loading screen.
Just wait for turbine to do that.

The day they do that ill believe the end is near.

[FestusHood]

You know what one free mmo I played years ago had?
Ads when you die and when on loading screen.
Just wait for turbine to do that.

Drink Coke. It's "The"

[BigErkyKid]

+1.

As a player, I find it annoying to have a constant stream of spam reminding me that I can pay my way through the game.

Also, if I were new to the game, I would probably think twice before subscribing. I avoid games that smell too much of pay to win.

[Kalimah]

You know what one free mmo I played years ago had?
Ads when you die and when on loading screen.
Just wait for turbine to do that.

Shadowbane did that just before it went **** up..sadface.

[Eth]

You know what one free mmo I played years ago had?
Ads when you die and when on loading screen.
Just wait for turbine to do that.

Imagine an ad for teh_trolls "How to not be terrible at DDO course" everytime you die.
So much win.

[fool101]

My biggest fear at the moment......

That I will accidentally click on the re-roll chest button. The location of these shard options is no coincidence.

[Ivan_Milic]

My biggest fear at the moment......

That I will accidentally click on the re-roll chest button. The location of these shard options is no coincidence.

Learn to loot with B.

[Fedora1]

My biggest fear at the moment......

That I will accidentally click on the re-roll chest button. The location of these shard options is no coincidence.

After weeks of complaints, supposedly Turbine finally put a confirmaton dialogue in so when you click reroll it asks if you really want to.

[HAL]

Have to agree with the op here.

It still astounds me that there is no marketing behind this last update. HH is finally a quest that feels EPIC rather than something cobbled togeather last minute after too much pizza and beer. Thunderholme is sure to appeal to anyone who enjoyed part 2 of the Hobbit and looks fantastic.

Turbine in short you have actually delivered stuff that looks and feels like DnD. Why arent you cashing in on this rather than trying to alienate the few players that are still clinging on with cheap P2W tactics?

And they should have especially advertised since it is both the 40th anniversary of D&D and the 8th anniversary of DDO!


You know what one free mmo I played years ago had?
Ads when you die and when on loading screen.
Just wait for turbine to do that.

I don't care that it could be worse - bad is bad.

[Powskier]

but,gotta agree w poster...and the chest re-roll ;what a joke ...How about free shards for VIPs every month?

[Qhualor]

The first thing I do when I walk into a quest is hide the window background so all it shows is the quest objectives. That way I can choose to ignore that button. Too bad I can't do that with the AS box.

[bartharok]

but,gotta agree w poster...and the chest re-roll ;what a joke ...How about free shards for VIPs every month?

Uh... You get free gold rolls that CAN give shards, and free TP as well as a VIP. So you DO get shards as a VIP. If you are either lucky or want them, that is.

[bartharok]

The first thing I do when I walk into a quest is hide the window background so all it shows is the quest objectives. That way I can choose to ignore that button. Too bad I can't do that with the AS box.

Drag the focus orb on top of it, and you cant see it.

[Ryiah]

Could you guys try advertising to get more players in? Perhaps allocate programming time to making the game better instead of this kind of advertising?

Advertising to bring in new players and shoving this kind of info in players faces is completely different. Advertising for new players costs a fair amount versus this method which is basically a one-time day or so investment in coding.

[Qhualor]

Drag the focus orb on top of it, and you cant see it.

Doesn't work for me. Most of my hot bars are along the bottom of the screen with the focus orb to the right and above them. Ive had my screen set up that way since day 1. Besides, anything you cover it will just pop back up over it if you click on it or alt tab or something.

[bartharok]

Doesn't work for me. Most of my hot bars are along the bottom of the screen with the focus orb to the right and above them. Ive had my screen set up that way since day 1. Besides, anything you cover it will just pop back up over it if you click on it or alt tab or something.

In that case it cant be helped. And as for the other part, Why click on it?

[Qhualor]

In that case it cant be helped. And as for the other part, Why click on it?

I look at the focus orb sometimes to see what harmful effects are damaging mobs.

[bartharok]

I look at the focus orb sometimes to see what harmful effects are damaging mobs.

Ah.

[Rykka]

Wow.

Played my gimp fighter today - die and immediately see a 'revive' button. 35 shards and get up via spirit cake. I guess everyone knew that cakes are available in the store - but this furthers the cheap, in your face, casino style of advertising p2w.

Could you guys try advertising to get more players in? Perhaps allocate programming time to making the game better instead of this kind of advertising?

http://cdn.culturemass.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/tumblr_ll84qsxZEI1qfdig2o1_500.gif

[HAL]

I look at the focus orb sometimes to see what harmful effects are damaging mobs.

Use Z for Examine?

[Chai]

Advertising to bring in new players and shoving this kind of info in players faces is completely different. Advertising for new players costs a fair amount versus this method which is basically a one-time day or so investment in coding.

One attracts new players while the other encourages them to stop playing.

One of the biggest turn offs for new players is a "hey, you can buy your way out of this situation" box that appears each time something bad happens to the character. We saw how hilarious that got with debuffs causing the DDO store option appearing right in the middle of the screen when people were debuffed.

The rage gets turned up to 11 when the purchased solution has a limit on its use. Someone who dies on the crucible swim for instance, buys a cake only to learn it cant be used underwater.

[Krelar]

One of the biggest turn offs for new players is a "hey, you can buy your way out of this situation" box that appears each time something bad happens to the character. We saw how hilarious that got with debuffs causing the DDO store option appearing right in the middle of the screen when people were debuffed.


This foxtrot (http://www.foxtrot.com/2014/03/03232014/) comic from last Sunday seems appropriate. :D

[ibanezbort]

I've played many, many F2P MMo's that in fact were completely P2W. DDO is by far the least P2W MMO I ever played. At least 99% of hat you pay for here is not a gamble, you know exactly what you're getting unlike other F2P mmo's with lottery type items, take a spin on our machine of amazing items for only 1$ Ohh sweet I got 25 potion I could of bought from a vendor for 500 gold, yay!!!!!!!!

Cakes are one of the top sellers in the store, the revive button just makes it quicker for those that do use it.

Turbine, make the game better, advertise get more players here...... But do so without advertising your store items which generate revenue that allows you to do so........... Seems rather contradictory to me :rolleyes:

[Hazelnut]

I've played many, many F2P MMo's that in fact were completely P2W. DDO is by far the least P2W MMO I ever played. At least 99% of hat you pay for here is not a gamble, you know exactly what you're getting unlike other F2P mmo's with lottery type items, take a spin on our machine of amazing items for only 1$ Ohh sweet I got 25 potion I could of bought from a vendor for 500 gold, yay!!!!!!!!

Cakes are one of the top sellers in the store, the revive button just makes it quicker for those that do use it.

Turbine, make the game better, advertise get more players here...... But do so without advertising your store items which generate revenue that allows you to do so........... Seems rather contradictory to me :rolleyes:

Yep. The revive button confused me for about half a second the last time a character died. Then I immediately though, "Oh, quick access to a spirit cake. Why wasn't that here before?" Then I released back to a tavern because that's not how I choose to play. Great idea though. Just like being able to buy more bank space or backpack space. Or any of the other things that don't unbalance the game but make life simpler.

[MindCakes]

Advertising to bring in new players and shoving this kind of info in players faces is completely different. Advertising for new players costs a fair amount versus this method which is basically a one-time day or so investment in coding.

Another difference is that advertising brings new people with money, and this method brings a couple dollars and a lot of disgruntled customers.

[PermaBanned]

Not sure what I'm doing right - because it's not like I never die - but I've never noticed this evil obnoxious button. Is it maybe because I keep a cake in my inventory? Either way, just not sure what all the fuss is about...

[Pandir]

Well the loot reroll on chests is pretty much in your face, but this button if i didn't read in the patch notes it was there i would have never noticed it existed.

[bsquishwizzy]

You know, I honestly don't get some of the outrange over the chest re-roll, or even Revive button.

And honestly, I don't get the outrage some people would have over advertising ion load screens.

If you don't want to spend astral shards DON'T USE THESE FUNCTIONS! It is really simple. It provides convenience for some players, and a minor perk to those who went out and purchased Astral Shards. I maybe used the re-roll once because I needed on of those draconic gems, and just happened to get one. But for the rest of the time, I had the restraint to basically take what fate had in store for me.

As for revive...almost every time I *had* to use a spirit cake, the circumstances were usually so bad that the minute my toon was brought back to life, it was a second or two before the bazillion mobs surrounding my soul stone hacked me to pieces....again. So, I generally just the XP hit and recall to a tavern some somethin'.

Just because it is there doesn't mean you HAVE to use it. And I don't. I don't know why others can't do the same.

[Singular]

It's just one more reminder of the real world that pulls me - and maybe others - out of the fantasy immersion.

But, hey, while we're at it, let's have a button near our names "buy name change now!" and one near our classes "buy a +1 heart now!" and on our skills page "unhappy with your skills? Use a +1 heart now!" and beside our alignments "buy alignment change! Play chaotic good, it's just that cool!"

[Singular]

http://cdn.culturemass.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/tumblr_ll84qsxZEI1qfdig2o1_500.gif

That is awesome.

[Pandir]

You know, I honestly don't get some of the outrange over the chest re-roll, or even Revive button.

And honestly, I don't get the outrage some people would have over advertising ion load screens.

If you don't want to spend astral shards DON'T USE THESE FUNCTIONS! It is really simple. It provides convenience for some players, and a minor perk to those who went out and purchased Astral Shards. I maybe used the re-roll once because I needed on of those draconic gems, and just happened to get one. But for the rest of the time, I had the restraint to basically take what fate had in store for me.

As for revive...almost every time I *had* to use a spirit cake, the circumstances were usually so bad that the minute my toon was brought back to life, it was a second or two before the bazillion mobs surrounding my soul stone hacked me to pieces....again. So, I generally just the XP hit and recall to a tavern some somethin'.

Just because it is there doesn't mean you HAVE to use it. And I don't. I don't know why others can't do the same.

Well i personally don't mind the chest reroll or the revive thing too much, but i can see the point of singular about immersion., and with the chest reroll i personally have the nagging worry that they reduce the general drop rate of items to encourage using of said reroll. Which i hope is just paranoia.

I did have a similar immersion breaking feeling in Lotro when they introduced Mithril coins. Simply for the fact that mithril is basically not in existence in middle earth anymore. A mithril shirt is supposed to be more worth than a whole town, yet now there's people standing around in Bree selling you simple clothing for Mithril coins :P. In the end it wasn't a huge deal but it was annoying.

Anyways i'd personally prefer if they put the store things more into a game context. Like instead of a simple Reroll on the button make it more elaborate like you're offering shards to the goddess of fortune(Bit out of the pantheon, is that still Tymorra ?) to change your luck or something.
Would imo be a bit less jarring that way.

[bartharok]

Well i personally don't mind the chest reroll or the revive thing too much, but i can see the point of singular about immersion., and with the chest reroll i personally have the nagging worry that they reduce the general drop rate of items to encourage using of said reroll. Which i hope is just paranoia.

I did have a similar immersion breaking feeling in Lotro when they introduced Mithril coins. Simply for the fact that mithril is basically not in existence in middle earth anymore. A mithril shirt is supposed to be more worth than a whole town, yet now there's people standing around in Bree selling you simple clothing for Mithril coins :P. In the end it wasn't a huge deal but it was annoying.

Anyways i'd personally prefer if they put the store things more into a game context. Like instead of a simple Reroll on the button make it more elaborate like you're offering shards to the goddess of fortune(Bit out of the pantheon, is that still Tymorra ?) to change your luck or something.
Would imo be a bit less jarring that way.

I would say that if minor details like this break a players immersion, its pretty non-existant to begin with. Or alternatively, they wish it to be broken.

[Eth]

I don't see the button as it is implemented now as that much of a problem.
I'm glad they didn't bring in the lammania version, were you would automatically get a popup the second you died (even in raids where you couldn't even use it).

[BigErkyKid]

The revive window is a constant reminder that you can pay your way through the game and hence annoying.

Sure, you may not use that option, but it brings the feeling that you are in a game that is designed to encourage you to spend money BEYOND the subscription. This is a feeling I dislike because it creates the impression that some of the features of the game are not designed so that it becomes more fun / challenging, rather to encourage you to PAY for stuff. I would very much prefer to pay upfront more for my subscription than to feel that I am constantly tempted by tasty in game rewards and time skippers.

Let me list a few for you:

1. Druidid hearts of Oak, all their versions.
* I don't want to pay or grind to TR (sure I can spend a few hours farming tokens. Is the game more fun or challenging by it? No. I have limited gameplay time so I want to spend it having fun).
* I don't want to pay or give up on a character if I make a mistake. A simple timer to avoid excessive rerolls would do.

2. Augments.
* Don't drop much, but hey you can get one in the store.

3. Keys of destiny
* A hidden temptress. How tempting is to avoid the several millions XP grind to have to go through destinies that don't favor you.

4. Astral shards to buy some cool loot.

5. Tomes
* That cool build you want is a few bucks away from you.

6. Races / iconics.
* Get some cool character and avoiding some grind.

7. Raid bypassers
* I really want that loot. I was unlucky in my roll (surprise!).


Feel free to add to this list.

And I repeat again: Turbine, stop this kind of behavior. It smells too much of dirty marketing. Up the subscription instead, be honest about what money you plan on getting from us. My biggest concern is that you may end up designing too many features that are aimed at getting our money and not at making the game fun.

PS - We are not stupid, we see it. And every player has a breaking point beyond which they cry: **** this pay to win, I am going to go play something else.

[bartharok]

The revive window is a constant reminder that you can pay your way through the game and hence annoying.

Sure, you may not use that option, but it brings the feeling that you are in a game that is designed to encourage you to spend money BEYOND the subscription. This is a feeling I dislike because it creates the impression that some of the features of the game are not designed so that it becomes more fun / challenging, rather to encourage you to PAY for stuff. I would very much prefer to pay upfront more for my subscription than to feel that I am constantly tempted by tasty in game rewards and time skippers.

Let me list a few for you:

1. Druidid hearts of Oak, all their versions.
* I don't want to pay or grind to TR (sure I can spend a few hours farming tokens. Is the game more fun or challenging by it? No. I have limited gameplay time so I want to spend it having fun).
* I don't want to pay or give up on a character if I make a mistake. A simple timer to avoid excessive rerolls would do.

2. Augments.
* Don't drop much, but hey you can get one in the store.

3. Keys of destiny
* A hidden temptress. How tempting is to avoid the several millions XP grind to have to go through destinies that don't favor you.

4. Astral shards to buy some cool loot.

5. Tomes
* That cool build you want is a few bucks away from you.

6. Races / iconics.
* Get some cool character and avoiding some grind.

7. Raid bypassers
* I really want that loot. I was unlucky in my roll (surprise!).


Feel free to add to this list.

And I repeat again: Turbine, stop this kind of behavior. It smells too much of dirty marketing. Up the subscription instead, be honest about what money you plan on getting from us. My biggest concern is that you may end up designing too many features that are aimed at getting our money and not at making the game fun.

PS - We are not stupid, we see it. And every player has a breaking point beyond which they cry: **** this pay to win, I am going to go play something else.

So its not about p2w at all, is it. Its just that you want it all, but hate having to pay for it all.

[BigErkyKid]

So its not about p2w at all, is it. Its just that you want it all, but hate having to pay for it all.

The definition of p2w is: game where you can gain advantage by using money. DoD is p2w. The question is how much. And my concern is that game design might be increasingly focused on highlighted the advantages of paying / encouraging you too pay OVER making the game deep, fun and challenging.

As an economist, I find a lot more honest a marketing strategy based on telling me upfront how much this game will cost me than one based on trying to tempt me too often with pay to win schemes.

[bartharok]

The definition of p2w is: game where you can gain advantage by using money. DoD is p2w. The question is how much. And my concern is that game design might be increasingly focused on highlighted the advantages of paying / encouraging you too pay OVER making the game deep, fun and challenging.

As an economist, I find a lot more honest a marketing strategy based on telling me upfront how much this game will cost me than one based on trying to tempt me too often with pay to win schemes.

So youd like a package deal for everything in store? That makes sense.

I dont feel tempted by the "pay to win" schemes, mostly since i dont have any need to buy unnecessary stuff. And can see that i dont need most of the stuff to have fun in game.

As to the focus: They gave a LOT of content, and one button that you can use to easily buy a rezcake. Dont see the problem here.

[myliftkk_v2]

Have you seen the Guaranteed Crit button yet?

5 shards, and your next attack critical is 100%.

[Fedora1]

Have you seen the Guaranteed Crit button yet?

5 shards, and your next attack critical is 100%.

Coming Soon:

Complete this quest without running it:

Normal Favor and XP = 200 shards
Hard Favor and XP = 400 shards
Elite Favor and XP = 800 shards
Include Chests in Quest = 50 shards per chest

;D

[Chai]

So its not about p2w at all, is it. Its just that you want it all, but hate having to pay for it all.

Being notified that we can pay our way out of situational stuff is something Turbine should have learned their lesson on. Players already sent a strong message when astral shards first came out that they dont want pop ups every time the status of their toons changes.

As for having to pay for it all in a game if you want it all....how does that include pop up messages of "hey looks like you experienced character death, pay x# of shards to get right back up and into the fight" - "hey looks like you got cursed, pay x# of shards to remove it" - "hey looks like you got poisoned, pay x# of shards to remove poison".

"hey it looks like you closed down our annoying pop ups asking you to pay shards very quickly, pay x# of shards to never see another pop up" /pic of xibit....

[Chai]

Coming Soon:

Complete this quest without running it:

Normal Favor and XP = 200 shards
Hard Favor and XP = 400 shards
Elite Favor and XP = 800 shards
Include Chests in Quest = 50 shards per chest

;D

Already in the saga mechanic save for the chest - but the named items are on the asah anyhow. :p

[Singular]

So youd like a package deal for everything in store? That makes sense.

I dont feel tempted by the "pay to win" schemes, mostly since i dont have any need to buy unnecessary stuff. And can see that i dont need most of the stuff to have fun in game.

As to the focus: They gave a LOT of content, and one button that you can use to easily buy a rezcake. Dont see the problem here.

You're just trolling BigErkle and purposefully misinterpreting him.

DDO does not have a lot of content compared to other major games. It has good content, that's for certain, but not the volume.

And anyways, you're missing the point. The p2w stuff shouldn't break immersion. We all know to click on the store icon if we want to buy stuff. Blatantly listing how many AS we have, pop ups that tell us we can spend shards on our abilities and at our deaths - these cheapen the fantasy utterly.

[bartharok]

You're just trolling BigErkle and purposefully misinterpreting him.

DDO does not have a lot of content compared to other major games. It has good content, that's for certain, but not the volume.

And anyways, you're missing the point. The p2w stuff shouldn't break immersion. We all know to click on the store icon if we want to buy stuff. Blatantly listing how many AS we have, pop ups that tell us we can spend shards on our abilities and at our deaths - these cheapen the fantasy utterly.

Yes, i was trolling somewhat, but my point is this: Its you that break the immersion by looking and thinking about the two horrible spots that must cover almost .05% of your screen. I noticed them and ignored them. Thats why they dont break mine.

[Vint]

Yes, i was trolling somewhat, but my point is this: Its you that break the immersion by looking and thinking about the two horrible spots that must cover almost .05% of your screen. I noticed them and ignored them. Thats why they dont break mine.

The problem is that they are trying too hard. I have no problem if they make every new account sit through a 2 hour tutorial on how to input your CC number. Maybe have a new account take a test on how to find the deals of the week and have them do a scavenger search in the store so they have to look at everything the store has to offer.

But, the seasoned vet (even someone that has been here a month) knows what they offer and knows what to buy and not to buy. I consider it a slap in the face when they persist on putting their “infomercials” in my face every time I log on. No matter how much of my screen it takes up, it is still a slap in the face and they should allow people to turn off the spam and the onscreen AS.

[bartharok]

The problem is that they are trying too hard. I have no problem if they make every new account sit through a 2 hour tutorial on how to input your CC number. Maybe have a new account take a test on how to find the deals of the week and how have them do a scavenger search in the store so they have to look at everything the store has to offer.

But, the seasoned vet (even someone that has been here a month) knows what they offer and knows what to buy and not to buy. I consider it a slap in the face when they persist on putting their “infomercials” in my face every time I log on. No matter how much of my screen it takes up, it is still a slap in the face and they should allow people to turn off the spam and the onscreen AS.

Its a matter of how you see it. I see it as .05% of my screen that i wasnt looking at anyway, and still have no need to look at. If you find it an annoyance, youll keep scratching at it until it bleeds. Which i certainly dont want to do.

That is why i say that its people slapping themselves in the face.

[Vint]

Its a matter of how you see it. I see it as .05% of my screen that i wasnt looking at anyway, and still have no need to look at. If you find it an annoyance, youll keep scratching at it until it bleeds. Which i certainly dont want to do.

That is why i say that its people slapping themselves in the face.

It does not bother me personally that it is there. What bothers me is that they will not put in a way to get rid of it. Their persistence of trying to get me to spend is only pushing people away.

[bartharok]

It does not bother me personally that it is there. What bothers me is that they will not put in a way to get rid of it. Their persistence of trying to get me to spend is only pushing people away.

Well, basically this is just what i mean.

Since im not about to spend anything, why should i care about the button one way or the other. I just excersize the talent i have been forced to develop in daily life, and just edit out the commercials.

[FredCDobbs]

If you scrunch up your Mind's Eye and squint really hard, you can imagine (as the great Role Players you are)
that it's the God Of Commerce (pick one: Japan's got more than enough, and to spare!) who visits you in the
In Between to offer you Spirit Twinkies so that you can continue your quest.

Or, if you prefer - as you lay dying before that beholder with only 5 hit points left on it - you can just tell yourself
that the Holy Grail you're seeing is full of gold coins - the "wealth of the Land" - and then you won't mind so much.

Here's the bottom line: if someone asks you if you're a God, you say YES! :cool:

[BigErkyKid]

Again, it is not about the particular window (for me), it is about worrying that they put too much emphasis in creating business opportunities inside the game.

Why do 3 days raid waiting periods exist?

Why do you have to farm tokens to TR?

Why do you have to stick to your initial ED even if you leveled a completely different class? Why not start in the sphere of the current class?

Why do they sell otto's boxes? If people wanted to grind xp so badly, it would be a horrible commericial strategy.

Are any of the variety of grind inducing strategies aimed at making the game for fun and interesting or chasing after my wallet?

Do you get my point? I don't want to move in the direction of a game that creates mechanics for the sake of making me cough up cash.

Just because you don't pay it and prefer to grind for hours out of your destiny it doesn't mean that what they are doing is pleasant for the player. And the same goes for the rest.

[bartharok]

Being notified that we can pay our way out of situational stuff is something Turbine should have learned their lesson on. Players already sent a strong message when astral shards first came out that they dont want pop ups every time the status of their toons changes.

As for having to pay for it all in a game if you want it all....how does that include pop up messages of "hey looks like you experienced character death, pay x# of shards to get right back up and into the fight" - "hey looks like you got cursed, pay x# of shards to remove it" - "hey looks like you got poisoned, pay x# of shards to remove poison".

"hey it looks like you closed down our annoying pop ups asking you to pay shards very quickly, pay x# of shards to never see another pop up" /pic of xibit....

Its all a matter of how you WANT to see it. Id ont care one way or the other, so i dont even notice it. If you want to see ghosts you meet them everywhere, you know.

[Chai]

Its all a matter of how you WANT to see it. Id ont care one way or the other, so i dont even notice it. If you want to see ghosts you meet them everywhere, you know.

Not really. Theres a difference between knowing we can buy our way through most game situations, and having a message pop up to remind us of that after each status change. The players already made a pretty strong statement about not wanting to see these pop up messages each time the status of their character changes. This happened right after astral shards came out. Many of the folks who support Turbine monetizing anything they possibly can were in agreement that they still didnt want to see pop up screens reminding them of it every few minutes. Its not a matter of what one wants to see at all, its a matter of what they actually do see.

[bartharok]

Not really. Theres a difference between knowing we can buy our way through most game situations, and having a message pop up to remind us of that after each status change. The players already made a pretty strong statement about not wanting to see these pop up messages each time the status of their character changes. This happened right after astral shards came out. Many of the folks who support Turbine monetizing anything they possibly can were in agreement that they still didnt want to see pop up screens reminding them of it every few minutes. Its not a matter of what one wants to see at all, its a matter of what they actually do see.

You miss my point. I dont care, so i dont see it either. If the idea bothers you, you WILL see it, because its like a piece of food stuck between your teeth.

[PermaBanned]

Not really. Theres a difference between knowing we can buy our way through most game situations, and having a message pop up to remind us of that after each status change. The players already made a pretty strong statement about not wanting to see these pop up messages each time the status of their character changes. This happened right after astral shards came out. Many of the folks who support Turbine monetizing anything they possibly can were in agreement that they still didnt want to see pop up screens reminding them of it every few minutes. Its not a matter of what one wants to see at all, its a matter of what they actually do see.

The Curse, Poison, etc status changes were short lived and a poor comparison to the little revive button that adds on to the objective window - it's not like we're getting some big pop up window centered on the screen. Seriously, I never noticed the button until this thread caused me to actively look for it after a death in Foundation (**** those sonic mines!).

If that little button is such a big deal, try this: Die Less Often!

[Singular]

Well, basically this is just what i mean.

Since im not about to spend anything, why should i care about the button one way or the other. I just excersize the talent i have been forced to develop in daily life, and just edit out the commercials.

Yeah, i see what you're saying. I'm the kind of person who changes the channel when the commercials come on :) and thankfully I think for this new Spend! button we can click 'don't show in quests.'

[Qhualor]

what if you went to the movies and in the corner of the screen there was a window that said there are snacks you can buy in the lobby? we already know there are snacks in the lobby, but maybe the theater wants to constantly remind you in case you forget. I know it would bother me, but I bet there are a few people here who would say "its only in the corner of the screen, hardly noticeable. if you let it bother you, you will always see it." if I close my right eye when I play, the right side of my screen is blurry so I wont notice the shard counter and revive button. I should also be more careful with my mouse when I want to click on the xp report. yeah, the revive button is only right next to it and hardly noticeable. oh wait, im doing it wrong. I should be using keys and than I wont notice the button there.

[PermaBanned]

what if you went to the movies and in the corner of the screen there was a window that said there are snacks you can buy in the lobby? we already know there are snacks in the lobby, but maybe the theater wants to constantly remind you in case you forget. I know it would bother me, but I bet there are a few people here who would say "its only in the corner of the screen, hardly noticeable. if you let it bother you, you will always see it." if I close my right eye when I play, the right side of my screen is blurry so I wont notice the shard counter and revive button. I should also be more careful with my mouse when I want to click on the xp report. yeah, the revive button is only right next to it and hardly noticeable. oh wait, im doing it wrong. I should be using keys and than I wont notice the button there.

The button is only there when you're dead.

Spend less time dead, and it will bother you less.

[Qhualor]

The button is only there when you're dead.

Spend less time dead, and it will bother you less.

thanks for the tip, although it has nothing to do with this topic. that's like telling someone not to eat yellow snow. well duh!

[bartharok]

thanks for the tip, although it has nothing to do with this topic. that's like telling someone not to eat yellow snow. well duh!

Some people have to be told even that, you know. (Not meaning you, but... well, you know what i mean, i hope)

[PermaBanned]

thanks for the tip, although it has nothing to do with this topic. that's like telling someone not to eat yellow snow. well duh!

Oh, my bad. I thought the topic was (generally) the little revive button and (more specifically) how it's another emersion wrecking shameless in-your-face money grab...

Seems quite the opposite to me, really. It's only as immersion wrecking as the Recall & XP report buttons - less so because it's only there when you're dead, rather than full time.

Seemed relevant to me.

[Nestroy]

The button is only there when you're dead.

Spend less time dead, and it will bother you less.

This! The whole discussion is quite pointless, imho. So stating the obvious and making some fun out of the discussion is a legit strategy to avoid brain damage.


Oh, my bad. I thought the topic was (generally) the little revive button and (more specifically) how it's another emersion wrecking shameless in-your-face money grab...

Seems quite the opposite to me, really. It's only as immersion wrecking as the Recall & XP report buttons - less so because it's only there when you're dead, rather than full time.

Seemed relevant to me.

Generally speaking, this is one of the better features from the whole AS / money grab features that got introduced during the last 2 years or so. Spirit cakes are a matter of fact since a long time (2010?) and the discussion about this being p2w is long over and out. Since the costs for the revival are comparable to the cakes in the shop, and since the feature is not annoyingly dominant upon death, it is an acceptable feature. It´s not the automatic "loot reroll" cr*p comming up every time I open a chest.

And still, if it annoys YOU (everybody reading this, not @PermaBanned in special), do not use it. Simple as it is. I like the feature, for an instance, even if I do not intend to use it often.

[BigErkyKid]

If it was only the revive window, I am not sure it would bother people so much. But this game is full of "revive windows".

And one cannot help but wonder how many of the gamefeatures are created so that it becomes increasingly appealing to click YES on them.

But some people here seem to want to be able to claim that it is simply the window and that it is easy to ignore. I wonder how much this is because it is hurtful to admit that the game is filled with p2w and that probably plenty of us have used the p2w often.

Part of this game is the challenge and the competition with other players. Having the best performing build, the one who contributes the most to a group or who can solo a tough quest. All these achievements become a lot less valuable if you have been able to perform them because you spent more cash than the guy who is unable.

I think that it is not a suprise to anyone if I say that a big part of having an effective "build" is time investment. And precisely it is in time investment where the p2w introduced by turbine is strongest. You can pay your way out of a large part of the grind, or speed up things. For skipping grind there are Otto boxes (not available constantly because Turbine knows that it is the strongest p2w option), hearts at the store and DESTINY keys, among others. To speed up things you have cakes, chest rerolls, the astral exchange and raid timers.

No one wants to play a game where it is obvious that people rank strictly on the basis of cash invested. That's why I think turbine should be extremely careful in terms of going further in the direction of more grind (read more temptations to pay to get out of it offered).

Furthermore, turbine has to make grind painful in order for the pad option to become attractive. By doing so, they are scaring off a lot of people who simply do NOT want to pay beyond their subscriptions. It might be because of cash availability (underage people), to keep the spirit of the competition in the game (adults) or because they simply feel annoyed at falling at the sketchi money-coughing schemes of the game (adults again). This game would be A LOT more attractive if it was a pure competition between subscribers and they stopped placing burdersome chores to make people opt out of them via money.

[Eth]

Spirit cakes exist for a long time now. The button just eases up access to them.
Still, it's a decision you can make. No one forces you to use it.

I never bought a res cake in this game and I probably will never use this button.

[bartharok]

But some people here seem to want to be able to claim that it is simply the window and that it is easy to ignore. I wonder how much this is because it is hurtful to admit that the game is filled with p2w and that probably plenty of us have used the p2w often.

No one wants to play a game where it is obvious that people rank strictly on the basis of cash invested. That's why I think turbine should be extremely careful in terms of going further in the direction of more grind (read more temptations to pay to get out of it offered).



My take on the p2w is that the ones that fear it, notice it. Well, in addition to those that need it. A lot of people pay it no attention what so ever, since it has precious little to do with them. Itys somethign that exists, and wont vanish either. It does not bother me, since i dont care one way or the other. Nothing to do with the great drama that the opponents make of it, or the great need some have of it.

There is rank in this game? Never noticed any other rank, except people i like, and those i dislike (with the great majority belonging to the "who?" category). The chance to buy shards directly dont make me any more tempted to buy them, nor will i waste my money on cakes, no matter how much they advertise them.

In my case at least, these two assumptions are wrong. They might be more correct with the anti-p2w crowd, in my opinion.

[BigErkyKid]

So it doesn't bother you if they create unnecessarily boring game features to encourage people to pay their way out of it?

[bartharok]

So it doesn't bother you if they create unnecessarily boring game features to encourage people to pay their way out of it?

Ok, i must say that i REALLY dont understand this time (no troll, i mean). Which feature do you mean in this case, death? Or gathering tokens/COVs etc? None of which i mind, since im in no rush anywhere. When i play i intend to enjoy the journey, not sit at the end wondering about what to do next.

[BigErkyKid]

Yes. COV. Or the heroic tokens. Or the need to level in out of your interest ED in order to unlock some cool stuff. Or raid timers.

[Nestroy]

Yes. COV. Or the heroic tokens. Or the need to level in out of your interest ED in order to unlock some cool stuff. Or raid timers.

The alternative then to loosing your favourite ED and te-leveling it has been loosing all the EDs... So this seemed to be the reasonable compromise then. I am still no friend of off-EDs, but I understand this and to a certain degree support this over the alternatives discussed (and implemented on Lam for review) when the system got introduced.

There had been some proposals in the discussion about the EDs but this is what we got. Would we have gotten what the devs first had pulled out I assure you there still up to now would be severe complaints on how unfair the system is. And no, this is not a question of otto´s boxes or something the like.

[BigErkyKid]

Isn't it convenient though that a destiny key for 900 TP can save you the pain? If this is trully the best method, why is there an tasty p2w option right next to it.

I'll stop because I don´t want to be that guy that has to keep pointing at the obvious while everyone else goes: what? I never saw that! for the sake of I don't know what (not getting a bad reputation with turbine? pretending this is not p2w?).

This is a good game. It has good possibilities given its engine, the fact that it comes from a very succesful franchise and that it has been well implemented (mostly).

Making it increasingly grindy in a hope that this will bring more revenue is turning it into something that is not of my taste in that IMHO puts off people.

[PermaBanned]

Yes. COV. Or the heroic tokens. Or the need to level in out of your interest ED in order to unlock some cool stuff. Or raid timers.

I've been playing this game since the launch of F2P. Here's how I've paid to win: I bought more character slots, most of the content (adventure packs), all available bank and inventory tabs for my two mains, all classes and races (except Drow and Iconic). Some of that came from real money (purchased points) the rest came from aquired points. I have never purchased an ottos box (though I've traded for a total of 3 heroics), nor have I purchased XP pots or shards.

So other than skipping most of three heroic lives (classes I don't enjoy playing), I've spent the time playing to develop a multitude of (bank) alts learning different classes and playstyles, and have developed my mains into a (non-completionest) Cleric with 3x all caster PLs as well as 3x Pally; and a (Completionest) non-caster. Both have maxed EDs - and not by the "bleeding eyes" method of using one or two quests to make it happen.

It doesn't bother me in the least that some people aren't willing to spend years developing a character or two, and would rather make a monetary investment instead of a time investment. It doesn't hurt me, diminish my progress or (personal) game achievements, or any other such nonsense. I don't see myself as being in competition with other players.

I don't consider the game a grind - and I never have. The way I see it, the sooner I have "everything done" the sooner I have nothing left to do - and that would suck. The "grind" I so often see people talk about on the forums seems directly related to wanting everything (character development wise) and wanting it right now. Truth be told, there's way less "grind" now than in days past: Bravery Bonus and the lowering of TR XP requirements have both FREELY reduced the grind. CoVs for ETRs? Rofl EPLs are as necessary as HPLs - which is to say they aren't. What others call "artificial grind" unnecessarily added to the game, I call a game play extension.

Too each there own I guess. But this little button is hardly P2W as I understand the term, it's out of the way and small, and only there when you're dead - whoopty frickin' do.

[bartharok]

Yes. COV. Or the heroic tokens. Or the need to level in out of your interest ED in order to unlock some cool stuff. Or raid timers.

I gain CoVs and heroic tokens by playing the game, and dont see th eneed to TR or ER before i get enough. TRing is no problem since i get a lot of the tokens, and i can wait until i have enough CoVs between ERs, since im more of a TR kind of guy anyways, (Impossible for me to have enough slots for every experiment i want to make). Since i TR a lot, im practically never in an off destiny, but level/get karma in whatever destiny works best on that life.

Having rampant altitis ive never had any problem with the 3 days off raiding. I just do it on some other toon if i feel like doing it again before that.

Neither do i have any issue with others paying their way through the game. Not my thing, but if they want to, they can.

You see, even though this is a MMO, the achievements of others dont matter to me at all. The only thing that matters is that people dont act like b*stards in game.

[BigErkyKid]

Well, if the aim was to extend gameplay, I don't think some of the features would work like this.

But what can I say, if something designed to get at your wallet actually makes you have a better time, kudos to you! I am afraid it does not work like that for everyone though, based on the number of posts complaining about it. Particularly there are quite a few regarding ED right now.

What I am asking is on the behalf on the game designers to be focused more on providing quality (as they arleady do, I like the game) and less of finding clever ways to use my joy of playing to get me to pay extra money on top of my subscription.

Denying that this is going on to a certain extend is delusional .

[bartharok]

Well, if the aim was to extend gameplay, I don't think some of the features would work like this.

But what can I say, if something designed to get at your wallet actually makes you have a better time, kudos to you! I am afraid it does not work like that for everyone though, based on the number of posts complaining about it. Particularly there are quite a few regarding ED right now.

What I am asking is on the behalf on the game designers to be focused more on providing quality (as they arleady do, I like the game) and less of finding clever ways to use my joy of playing to get me to pay extra money on top of my subscription.

Denying that this is going on to a certain extend is delusional .

To a certain degree, of course. But it generally targets the wallets of those that want their character to gain power in a hurry, and the ones that are hopeless at the game. The first category are the ones hurt by the system, mainly because they often feel that they MUST spend money, since somebody may already be that much ahead.