Knife specialization

[Suzaku]

Is it generally good idea to go for Knife Specialization and focus mostly on Dex (possibly dumping str)? If so which is better Kukri or daggers?

[Cardtrick]

Knife specialization is extremely powerful for a TWF Rogue. It is useful for the excellent crit profile. It has very little to do with the decision to go DEX vs. STR as the primary stat (or even INT primary for an assassin).

Most people will tell you that STR primary is the best way to go, since STR is the stat that is easiest to push to very high values with equipment and various other abilities. There is truth to this. However, high DEX does have some other benefits -- it allows maxing out the TWF feats without tomes or gimping other stats, it benefits Reflex save, etc. If you want to stay pure rogue, high DEX is definitely viable, though probably still not optimal. (If you're multi-classing with some other class that has ways to improve STR, like Power Surge from Fighter or Rage from Barbarian or Divine Might from Paladin/Cleric/Favored Soul, then I think the choice to go high STR is much simpler.)

[Saekee]

Is it generally good idea to go for Knife Specialization and focus mostly on Dex (possibly dumping str)? If so which is better Kukri or daggers?

Go daggers since there are lots of named ones. There is only one Kukri rogues use, and it is a PITA to assemble. Best heroic dagger is Guardian of the Liturgy (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Guardian_of_the_Liturgy); epics have many, in particular Agony (of course) and my personal favorite, Blade of the High Priestess (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Blade_of_the_High_Priestess) (it damages that stats that defend against its two other qualities). Guardian of the Liturgy and Blade of the High Priestess can both be bought off the auction house!

I agree with Cardtrick about Dex/Str. Have you checked out Mellkor's INT assassin or Hassan's Assassin? Since both are maxing INT, they go Dex as the next stat. Dex is good for many roguish qualities: high evasion for surviving traps that have the control box past (or in the midst of) them; some skills (OL and stealth); and improved armor class. It is handy to have one stat giving attack, damage, and defense. A STR rogue can go the overwhelming critical route in epics, so depends on your build.

[Nightmanis]

Go daggers since there are lots of named ones. There is only one Kukri rogues use, and it is a PITA to assemble. Best heroic dagger is Guardian of the Liturgy (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Guardian_of_the_Liturgy); epics have many, in particular Agony (of course) and my personal favorite, Blade of the High Priestess (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Blade_of_the_High_Priestess) (it damages that stats that defend against its two other qualities). Guardian of the Liturgy and Blade of the High Priestess can both be bought off the auction house!

I agree with Cardtrick about Dex/Str. Have you checked out Mellkor's INT assassin or Hassan's Assassin? Since both are maxing INT, they go Dex as the next stat. Dex is good for many roguish qualities: high evasion for surviving traps that have the control box past (or in the midst of) them; some skills (OL and stealth); and improved armor class. It is handy to have one stat giving attack, damage, and defense. A STR rogue can go the overwhelming critical route in epics, so depends on your build.

I'll put a vote in for the Nightforge Stiletto as well.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Nightforge_Stiletto

With a base crit range of 18-20/x2, you can rock what is essentially an Adamantine Balizarde from level 8 on (or whenever you get knife specialization).

[Suzaku]

Thanks for your help, I'm just being overwhelmed coming back from year break.

[Linvak]

Go daggers since there are lots of named ones. There is only one Kukri rogues use, and it is a PITA to assemble. Best heroic dagger is Guardian of the Liturgy (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Guardian_of_the_Liturgy); epics have many, in particular Agony (of course) and my personal favorite, Blade of the High Priestess (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Blade_of_the_High_Priestess) (it damages that stats that defend against its two other qualities). Guardian of the Liturgy and Blade of the High Priestess can both be bought off the auction house!

I agree with Cardtrick about Dex/Str. Have you checked out Mellkor's INT assassin or Hassan's Assassin? Since both are maxing INT, they go Dex as the next stat. Dex is good for many roguish qualities: high evasion for surviving traps that have the control box past (or in the midst of) them; some skills (OL and stealth); and improved armor class. It is handy to have one stat giving attack, damage, and defense. A STR rogue can go the overwhelming critical route in epics, so depends on your build.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Sky_Pirate%27s_Dagger is a decent candidate. May turn into the best epic dagger after epic 3bc. But it's basically 15-20 x4 once you get knife specialization. The base dmg is obviously lower but I think clearly the low level choice because it even has keen, which is big since rogues don't get improved crit for awhile.

[Linvak]

Thanks for your help, I'm just being overwhelmed coming back from year break.

I felt the same. Only just started again in late Jan with my old 18/1/1 rogue. Now the most viable rogue is int based assassin. But I maxed dex through heroics because it made soloing so very easy. You should have a free lesser rez if u don't like ur path. For me, I had rad 2 rapiers waiting at 12 so I didn't bother with daggers at first but there are a lot of decent heroic daggers out there.

I would stick with daggers because kukris are slashing. You can stick to improved crit piercing and be able to move to rapiers/short swords if needed.

[unbongwah]

With a base crit range of 18-20/x2, you can rock what is essentially an Adamantine Balizarde from level 8 on (or whenever you get knife specialization).
Knife Spec isn't available until char lvl 12. At that point, you'll probably want Guardians (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Guardian_of_the_Liturgy): the crit range is not as nice as Stillettos, but the higher base dmg, Bleed, & Heartseeker should make up for that.

[Linvak]

Also, the +1 to crit threat range are daggers only.



FIXED*** haha

[unbongwah]

Also, the +1 to multiplier are daggers only.
"Knife Specialization: You gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier with daggers and kukris. Daggers also gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Threat Range."

So Knife Spec turns any normal dagger or kukri's base crit profile into 18-20 x3; Imp Crit feat or Keen weapon doubles that to 15-20 x3 (same as Balizarde). As Nightmanis observed, Nightforge Stiletto has higher crit range (18-20), so w/Knife Spec that becomes 17-20; add Imp Crit and it's 13-20. Same would be true of drow dagger (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Drow_Dagger_of_the_Weapon_Master).

EDIT: for leveling, I say daggers are the way to go, simply because there are more good named daggers than kukris. Prior to U21, I would've said a pair of Agonies or Agony+eMG was the way to go in epics; but Thunder-forged weapons make daggers & kukris basically identical, AFAIK. Instead of eMG, you'll want the Dark Diversion necklace for +4 Assassinate DCs.

[Linvak]

"Knife Specialization: You gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier with daggers and kukris. Daggers also gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Threat Range."

So Knife Spec turns any normal dagger or kukri's base crit profile into 18-20 x3; Imp Crit feat or Keen weapon doubles that to 15-20 x3 (same as Balizarde). As Nightmanis observed, Nightforge Stiletto has higher crit range (18-20), so w/Knife Spec that becomes 17-20; add Imp Crit and it's 13-20. Same would be true of drow dagger (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Drow_Dagger_of_the_Weapon_Master).

EDIT: for leveling, I say daggers are the way to go, simply because there are more good named daggers than kukris. Prior to U21, I would've said a pair of Agonies or Agony+eMG was the way to go in epics; but Thunder-forged weapons make daggers & kukris basically identical, AFAIK. Instead of eMG, you'll want the Dark Diversion necklace for +4 Assassinate DCs.

Hahaha, not sure why I typed that out wrong. Thanks! : p

How come no one ever talks about the short swords out of CitW? Are people using something else for Dr beaters? And they're almost saving grace for rogues vs undead.

Unless you can afford improved slashing and piercing I feel like staying away from kukris is better.

[Linvak]

Knife Spec isn't available until char lvl 12. At that point, you'll probably want Guardians (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Guardian_of_the_Liturgy): the crit range is not as nice as Stillettos, but the higher base dmg, Bleed, & Heartseeker should make up for that.

And are we sure about that? The mechanic tree says character level 12 aswell but rapid fire is available before that. Are those typos or specific tier 5s, not all?

I can see assassinate requiring lvl 12.

[unbongwah]

And are we sure about that? The mechanic tree says character level 12 aswell but rapid fire is available before that. Are those typos or specific tier 5s, not all?
All T5s should only be available at char lvl 12; if you find any that are available before CL:12, it's not WAI. But keep it to yourself; Mechanics can use all the help they can get. ;)

[Linvak]

All T5s should only be available at char lvl 12; if you find any that are available before CL:12, it's not WAI. But keep it to yourself; Mechanics can use all the help they can get. ;)

Hahaha. Fair enough.