Revisiting the Sacred Defender for New Players

[unbongwah]

Someone PMed me looking for gear suggestions to this build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431057-Pal-fighter?p=5178520&viewfull=1#post5178520); rather than posting to that thread, though, I figured I'd start a new one.

First off, I suggest taking a look at Junts's oldie-but-goodie pally guide (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/218542-A-Guide-to-Creating-Paladins); although the info on Enhancements is obsolete, there's still good info on pally spells, how special abilities work, etc. that's still relevant.

Second, the first piece of advice offered to most newbies out to make S&B pallies is: don't make a S&B pally. :rolleyes: In most cases, the threat & survivability bonuses from S&B doesn't outweigh the DPS loss of not going THF/TWF. Furthermore, S&B pally builds are actually more feat-intensive than a pure DPS pally; and pallies are feat-constrained as it is. Usually the best "Defenders" are those who focused on DPS, with a little bit extra invested in threat amp & survivability than pure DPS builds.

That said, if your heart's still set on a S&B Sacred Defender, then here's a brief rundown of various options and their pros & cons:

Pal 20
Pros: Gain capstone, maximize LoH, extra spell slots & SPs
Cons: no Evasion; SD capstone is pretty weak and KotC capstone is broken (Good-aligned weapons isn't working); pure pallies are sorely lacking in DPS & feat-starved

Pal 18 / ftr 2
Pros: gain 2 extra feats, tower shield prof, access to low-tier Kensei & SD goodies (Haste Boost, Extra Action Boost, Threatening Countenance, Shield Striking)
Cons: no Evasion; only two lvl 4 spell slots; lvl 18 core abilities are fairly blah IMHO (altho Ralmeth is a fan of Glorious Stand, IIRC)

Pal 18 / monk 2
Pros: gains 2 extra feats, +3 to all saves, & Evasion; some monk PrE bonuses still apply while uncentered (e.g., Ninja Acrobatic, Shintao heal amp)
Cons: doesn't provide the DPS bonuses of a ftr splash - this is a more survivability-oriented splash; no tower shield prof (altho you can UMD Master's Touch scrolls to grant it)

Pal 15 / monk 2 / ftr 2 (final level into monk or ftr)
Pros: gain 4 extra feats & Evasion; combines the best of both splashes while keeping two lvl 4 spell slots (Zeal + CSW or DW)
Cons: lose lvl 18 core enhs; fewer SPs & LoH loses some oomph

Pal 14 / ftr 6
Pros: Stalwart Defender can take Block & Cut (+25% doublestrike for 10 secs, 20 sec CD), which is a significant bonus to S&B DPS and stacks w/Zeal, AFAIK
Cons: no Evasion, only 1 lvl 4 spell slot (so no CSW), investing heavily in Stalwart D. means fewer APs for KotC and Sacred D.

Right now pure pallies are pretty weak; I wouldn't make one except for flavor or some self-imposed constraint to stick w/pure. My belief is that pal 14 / ftr 6 will have the best S&B DPS but the worst survivability / self-sufficiency (tho still a lot better than pure ftr has); while the 15/3/2 split offers the most reasonable compromise between DPS & survivability (can still wear med/hvy armor when AC&PRR are more important than Evasion). 18/2 builds are only if you really want the lvl 18 core abilities or you don't have monk. Since this thread is focused on new players who won't have monk, I'll be focusing on the pally 18 / ftr 2 combo. [If there's interest, I'll try to whip up something with a rog splash instead of monk for F2Pers who want Evasion tanks.]

Feats: These are roughly divided into three catergories.

DPS: Power Atk, Cleave, Gt Cleave, Improved Critical, the THF chain, Overwhelming Crit - threat is based on DPS, so higher DPS not only kills monsters faster, it increases your ability to hold aggro
Survivability: Toughness / eToughness, Dodge / Mobility etc., metamagics like Quicken+Emp Heal - these are the feats which boost your chances of staying alive, thru more HPs, higher Dodge, better self-healing, etc.
Tanking: Shield Mastery, Imp Shield Mastery, b.sword or d.axe prof., Imp Shield Bash - these feats boost DPS as well as survivability while S&B


Since pure & mostly-pure pallies are feat-constrained, finding the right balance for your build goals is key.

Now, onto a sample build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Lawful Good Human Female
(2 Fighter \ 18 Paladin \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 380
Spell Points: 260
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 9
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance -1 7
Bluff 3 11
Concentration 6 33
Diplomacy 3 11
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 14
Heal 3 28
Hide -1 7
Intimidate 5 37
Jump 3 16
Listen -1 7
Move Silently -1 7
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 8
Search 0 8
Spellcraft 0 8
Spot -1 7
Swim 3 16
Tumble 0 8
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Inciting Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Inciting Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Inciting Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Redemption (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Glorious Stand (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Harbored by Light (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Harbored by Light (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Harbored by Light (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Holy Strike


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target


I focused on DPS and tanking feats with this build; this helps max out threat & kill mobs quicker but limits extra survivability options. In particular, not having Quik+Emp Heal will limit self-healing a bit. You can see I maxed out Intim & Concentration, with near-max Heal; UMD is also an useful alternative to Concentration.

Note: I front-loaded the shield feats for those who wish to go S&B ASAP; but honestly I think you'd be better off leveling as a conventional 2H pally and only switch to S&B at later levels when it becomes (slightly) more useful. To that end, you may wish to revise the feat order to take the THF chain ASAP and backload the shield feats later.

[unbongwah]

Gear Recommendations

Balancing gear is always a PITA, frankly, but it's particularly tricky for a tank build, which has a lot of things to worry about. Here's a list of what I consider priorities:

Stat bonuses: STR, CHA, and CON are your primary stats and should be kept as high as possible; bearing in mind than only even stats count towards bonuses. Remember that Div Might is now an Insightful STR bonus, so balance your STR based on how high it will be while DM is active; e.g., if you have STR 21 CHA 20 natively, then w/DM your STR will be 26. WIS needs to be 10 + spell lvl in order to cast spells; so in the long run you need at least WIS 14 to use all pally spells. DEX boosts your AC & Reflex saves; it isn't a top priority, IMHO, but it's still worthwhile after other gear reqs are met. INT is a dump stat.
Dmg bonuses: a Deadly item and a Seeker item are both important; Manslayer (instakill or +100 dmg on vorpal strikes) is also a nice perk.
Fortification: this protects you from sneak atks & critical hits, so it should be kept maxed out.
Saves: thanks to Divine Grace, pallies have naturally high saves, but you'll still want the best Resistance item you can equip; later you'll want a Parrying item as well.
Speed: boosts your movement & atk speeds, both of which are important.
HPs: have the best False Life item equipped; later on add Vitality and, if you get into Shroud-farming, a GS HP item.
AC: it's debatable whether it's worth investing in AC heavily, but if you do, you'll want Protection, Natural Armor, and Parrying bonuses.
Dodge: build as specced can support 4% Dodge (base MDB 1 + 3 SD enhs); higher Dodge req's more investment in MDB increases or switching to med armor.
PRR: some of this is inherent from armor; you'll also want a good Sheltering item equipped.
Heal amp: this boosts all incoming heals and will stack multiplicatively with different bonuses; i.e., 10%+20% heal amp bonuses stack, but 20%+20% does not.
Self-heals: a Devotion item and Heal skill item will boost Positive Spellpower.
SPs: pallies don't get a lot of spell pts, so you'll want a Wizardry item.
Skill bonuses: Intim is the primary skill of every tank, so naturally you'll want the highest bonus to that you can get. Secondary skills like Concentration or Heal should also be boosted.
Threat amp: this boosts your threat and like heal amp will stack with different bonuses.


ML:20 epic "starter" gear

Lots of folks come up with ideal endgame gear lists, but don't bother to tell newbies what to use while leveling. So, here's the stuff which should be relatively easy for a newbie to acquire to get started in epics. I used a lot of Eveningstar Commendation (http://ddowiki.com/page/Commendations) gear, in particular the PDK set because it provides a lot of useful bonuses.

Armor: PDK armor (http://ddowiki.com/page/Purple_Dragon_Armor) (Heavy Fort, SFL, Knights Loyalty)
Head: PDK helm (http://ddowiki.com/page/Purple_Dragon_Helm) (+7 CON, +2 insightful STR, Intim +15) - the STR bonus doesn't stack with Div Might, but the other bonuses are good
Gloves:PDK gloves (http://ddowiki.com/page/Purple_Dragon_Gauntlets) (+7 STR, +2 insightful CON, 30% heal amp) - apart from the stat bonuses, these are the easiest-to-acquire source of 30% heal amp
Goggles: Guardian's Glasses (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Guardian%27s_Glasses_(Level_19)) (+35 Vitality), Woodman's Lenses (http://ddowiki.com/page/Lenses_of_the_Woodsman) (True Seeing, Seeker +6), Drow Smoke Goggles (http://ddowiki.com/page/Drow_Smoke_Goggles) (Seeker +6, Manslayer), Deadly of Resistance lootgen
Cloak: Mithril Cloak of the Bear (http://ddowiki.com/page/Mithral_Cloak_of_the_Bear) (+6 PRR, +6 Protection, Combat Mastery +5, +20% Incite) - this isn't a tactics-oriented build so CM +5 is of limited use, but the rest are solid tanking bonuses
Bracers: Sun Soul Bracers (http://ddowiki.com/page/Bracers_of_the_Sun_Soul) (WIS +7, Parrying IV) - the CON bonus is redudant, but WIS +7 is enough for your spellcasting needs plus it provides Parrying
Belt: a free slot to round out anything you're missing elsewhere
Trinket: Gtr Nimble Trinket (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Greater_Nimble_Trinket) (Blurry, 2% Dodge) - it's sad, but I dunno what else to put here... :o
Boots: Woodsman's Boots (http://ddowiki.com/page/Boots_of_the_Woodsman) (insightful DEX +2, Striding 30%), Speed lootgen
Ring 1: Shining Sun Signet (http://ddowiki.com/page/Signet_of_the_Shining_Sun) (+7 CHA, +2 insightful WIS, Healing Lore VI)
Ring 2: Guardian's Ring (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Guardian%27s_Ring_%28Level_19%29) (24 PRR), Ring of the Stalker (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Ring_of_the_Stalker) upgraded to T2/3 (Seeker +6, Ghostly, Manslayer) - Seeker & Manslayer bonuses don't stack, so it's redundant if you've got Woodmans or Drow Smoke in goggles slot
Weapons: eTemplar's Retribution (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Templar%27s_Retribution) (slotted w/silver for DR-breaking), eChimera's Fang (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Chimera%27s_Fang) (see below), ML:20 Cormyrian bastard swords
Shields: eTemplar's Bulwark (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Templar%27s_Bulwark) (inherent elemental resists), heroic Wall of Wood (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Wall_of_Wood) (heal amp + Devotion)

eFang used to be the best b.sword in DDO; now it's mostly useful as a starter weapon for its bonus consolidation, esp. if you've got the Sentinel DM feat for full bonuses. But since it's not competitive with Nightmare or a Thunder-forged b.sword, I couldn't recommend basing one's build on it anymore.

[unbongwah]

Paladin 15 / Fighter 4 / Wizard 1

This variant is based on discussions from page 2; it was originally a Bladeforged paladin which I've adapted for F2P humans. I've also tweaked the feat order etc.; this build is focused on THF DPS until level 15 when she takes both Shield Masteries. While leveling, you may wish to ignore Sacred D. entirely to focus on KotC, particularly when tackling undead- or EO-heavy quests (Deleras, Necropolis, Vale, etc.).

The wiz splash may look odd, but it actually adds a lot of benefits to this build:

Free metamagic feat (Extend to start, swap for Quicken later)
Free Magical Training, which adds +130 SPs (plus more from INT) and Echoes of Power. Base EoP is 12 SPs, which is enough to power un-meta'ed CSW; in epic lvls you can Twist Endless Faith which bumps this up to 30 SPs, enough for un-meta'ed Zeal or meta'ed CSW.
Access to arcane wands for early buffage & utility: e.g., Blur, Stoneskin, Protection from Energy, Knock (not as good as Finding DM, but beats nothing when you don't have a rogue). UMD eventually renders this redundant, but it can be a boon for first-lifers.
Lvl 1 arcane buffs like Expeditious Retreat, Shield / Nightshield (MM immunity), and Jump (note some are subject to ASF)
4 APs into Eldritch Knight gets you +1% doublestrike, +10% AC from Imp Mage Armor SLA, and Eldritch Strike (SP cost makes it too expensive to spam regularly, but sometimes it's helpful to have a 3rd Cleave atk)
4 APs into Archmage will get you 1 SLA (Shield/Jump/Invisibility) and +75% Wand & Scroll Mastery (I think - not sure if wiki or builder is right about it being T1 or T2)


Taking two extra ftr lvls gets you 1 more feat and access to higher-tier Kensei / Stalwart abilities. I only added Overbalance for the free knockdowns, but you could add more STR, Crit Accuracy / Dmg, or whatever else you can squeeze out the APs for.

The main drawbacks to dropping 3 pally lvls are it reduces LoHs' effectiveness and you lose Glorious Stand, which can be a handy emergency button. Also, due to AP constraints, I gave up Harbored by Light, which just got nerfed / bugfixed in U21.1; it no longer stacks with itself, so it maxes out at +25 PRR rather than +50.

EDIT: tweaked build order slightly, based on feedback.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(4 Fighter \ 15 Paladin \ 1 Wizard)
Hit Points: 299
Spell Points: 325
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 10
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 15 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance -1 -1
Bluff 2 4
Concentration 6 25
Diplomacy 2 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 7
Heal 3 22
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 4 29
Jump 3 8
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 1 1
Spellcraft 1 1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 7
Tumble 0 0
Use Magic Device 4 15

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+3)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Redemption (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Inciting Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Inciting Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Inciting Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 3)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Heal (+2)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Heal (+2)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Overbalance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Transmutation I: Jump (Rank 1)


Normally I dislike starting with odd stats, but I felt I needed the extra INT in order to max out Intim and UMD, as well as have 22 ranks in Heal & Concentration.

[Ralmeth]

Good post! This should definitely help out a newer player. Paladins may not be ideal in epic elites due to the current game mechanics, but Paladins can do very well in heroic elites and epic hard quests (IMHO).

Now, as for your Paladin 18 / Fighter 2 build recommendation, I do have some suggestions & thoughts:
1) Tactics are where it's at. Stunning Blow is just an awesome way to increase your DPS by 50% vs. a stunned opponent. I would recommend to pick up stunning blow & improved sunder over the THF chain. Basic trip is useful too, but the catch is, you have to work on increasing the difficulty check (DC).
2) For anyone wanting to play a S&B character, monsters die so easily at lower levels (even on elite) that you are better off going two-handed fighting until at least the early teens. I would recommend pushing back the shield feats until levels 12-18 (ex. shield mastery at 12, improved shield mastery at 15, etc)
3) Glorious Stand is that good if you learn to use it when things are going south, and worth going to 18 Paladin levels (thanks for the shout out, BTW). Only since picking up cacoon have I not needed to use it, and for a new player it will be a while before they get cacoon.

:)

[SoVTyphoon]

I had the dubious pleasure of playing a paladin S&B tank last life(15Pal/3Rog/2Fi). I found that paladins have excellent utility, but the fact that the number of feats I wanted to take was nowhere near the number of feats that I had to spend was definitely painful. I wound up not being able to pick up things like Toughness, Emp. heal, Improved shield bash, and B. sword prof. It looks like 4-6 levels in fighter frees up enough feats to reach the optimal S&B build and still keep Zeal.

Some things I noticed:

1. Took stunning blow early with the intention of swapping it out later for b. swords. Wound up keeping it all the way into epic levels due to divine might and strong defense kicking up Str DCs higher than initially anticipated.
2. Left concentration at 0. No problems whatsoever. Lay on hands works fine for emergency in-battle healing(without quicken, this is the fastest heal paladins have anyway), all other spells (cures/buffs/ress) are saved for when fights are over, or turn and run before casting.
3. Harbored by Light - either bugged or too **** good.
4. Both the cleave feats and the THF feats had a bigger impact than the shield mastery feats. The doublestrike on the shield feats wound up being the most useful aspect. Parties wound up consisting of people who were able to steal aggro almost at will, or people who basically did no damage. Damage output(counterintuitive, yes) became a primary consideration when it came to being able to maintain aggro as a tank.

[unbongwah]

1) Tactics are where it's at. Stunning Blow is just an awesome way to increase your DPS by 50% vs. a stunned opponent. I would recommend to pick up stunning blow & improved sunder over the THF chain.
Good points about tactics feats, esp. Stunning Blow; I sometimes forget pallies no longer have sucky DCs. I'm just wondering where to squeeze in more DC bonuses. I already planned on a Cloak of the Bear in my gear layout, but any suggestions for what to use for Stunning / Shattering bonuses? Dun'Robar rings (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Seal_of_House_Dun%27Robar) are an obvious option, except farming for the right one is such a PITA. :(

If I dropped the THF feats, I think I would drop b.sword as well and switch to scimitars, hoping the better crit dmg would make up for the loss of glancing blows. Plus with Thunder-forging, all weapon types are once again viable at endgame. In which case, those feats can go towards Quicken, Emp Heal, Stunning Blow, and something else (Imp Sunder, maybe).

[ZanderJS]

Hi unbongwah!

Thanks for this awesome reply to my query! : )
Really appreciate it!
And to Ralmeth and SoVTyphoon as well for your suggestions!

Regarding giving up the THF chain for Stunning Blow, would it be possible to maintain the usage of B.Swords while giving up the THF chain?
Would it reduce my damge output greatly?

[Fedora1]

Very nice (as usual) sir, very nice. :)

I like to keep B-sword or D-axe as a feat since there are such a plethora of good loot-gen ones out there for cheap, and a lot of good named ones as well.

If you go dwarf you will not have to spend a feat for a d-axe and also get some nice axe bonuses from the racial tree, and combat DC's as well.

Question - using the 16/2/2 or 15/3/2 for the fighter/monk splashes, what would be the ideal leveling order? Would you front load the monk for evasion?

[unbongwah]

Regarding giving up the THF chain for Stunning Blow, would it be possible to maintain the usage of B.Swords while giving up the THF chain?
Would it reduce my damge output greatly?
http://ddowiki.com/page/Glancing_blows

I don't think the page has been updated since U19 rolled out, so some of the data is obsolete; but the main takeaways are (A) glancing blows only apply to regular atks while standing still and (B) of the THF feats, GTHF provides the single biggest boost to dmg because it adds an extra glancing blow - so for that reason, I consider the THF feats to be all-or-nothing.

[Enoach]

You have some good points about the S&B Paladin.

I myself have a half-elf Level 20 Paladin that primarily uses S&B.

Some helpful advice about maximizing your Attribute setup especially where it concerns your defensive abilities...

It is important to understand what your maximum obtainable Max Dex Bonus will be. This is important as this also caps out your Dodge bonus (which will be far more valuable than AC at higher levels/Difficulties)

Determine what Kind of armor you will be wearing - Heavy 1 MDB / Medium 3 MDB
Determine MDB with Tower Shield - 2 MDB (4 MDB if Mithral)

So for Example if you have a Base 8 Dexterity, plan on a +2 Tome and a +6 item your Dexterity would be 16 with Ship buffs you will be at 18, with a Dex Mod of 3, 4 with ship buffs. If this is the case you will want your MDB to be at 4 - Less would be wasting your Dexterity, more would be wasting points/gear on something you cannot fill. You can make adjustments with feats and gear.

Determine Feats/Enhancements planned for improving MDB
- Sacred Defender has enhancements that will add up to 3 MDB to Armor and 3 MDB to Tower Shield
- Half-Elf Racial Fighter Dilettante has an enhancement that will add 2 MDB to Armor
- Fighter Enhancements (Don't stack with Racial) also allows up to 2 MDB to Armor
- Mobility adds +2 MDB to Armor/Tower Shields

The goal is to match up your Dexterity Bonus to be right at your MDB so as not to waste the Dex or Waste the Enhancements

Feats that are useful but also can be available without taking the feat
1. Mobility - Found on Gear, also can be Crafted using the Cannith Crafting system - it is low level so not a lot of investment needed
2. Tower Shield Proficiency - Use Magic Device (UMD) with Master's Touch or use any of the Named Tower Shields that comes with Proficiency built in
3. Dodge - Dodge is now a common gear enhancement and one can get gear and usually fit it in to current layouts that provides the Dodge % needed. This feat is only needed if you cannot slot the item, or if your current Dodge % does not max out your current available Dodge %.

Edit:

Defensive Feat not mentioned but worth looking into especially if Evasion is not in the Build - Shield Deflection 20/25/30/40 percent energy damage ignored while shield blocking. This appears to still be working if you have Improved Shield bash and "Hit" with your shield while blocking.

Shields: <- Treat these the same way you would treat an off-hand weapon for TWF

1. Look for Utility - Bash effects, Guards, Defensive
2. Different Types - Buckler, Small, Large and Tower - Don't be afraid of using different types to open up utility
3. Some shield effects are bonuses to Main Hand and some require the shield itself to be hit - Learn which is which to better utilize the shield and main hand combination

[Ralmeth]

Good points about tactics feats, esp. Stunning Blow; I sometimes forget pallies no longer have sucky DCs. I'm just wondering where to squeeze in more DC bonuses. I already planned on a Cloak of the Bear in my gear layout, but any suggestions for what to use for Stunning / Shattering bonuses? Dun'Robar rings (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Seal_of_House_Dun%27Robar) are an obvious option, except farming for the right one is such a PITA. :(

If I dropped the THF feats, I think I would drop b.sword as well and switch to scimitars, hoping the better crit dmg would make up for the loss of glancing blows. Plus with Thunder-forging, all weapon types are once again viable at endgame. In which case, those feats can go towards Quicken, Emp Heal, Stunning Blow, and something else (Imp Sunder, maybe).

The Cloak of the Bear is good for exceptional combat mastery. Either that or the Spare Hand belt from the house C challenges (I use the belt because I already have a Con Opp cloak, but if I were to start over I would go with Cloak of the Bear). As for a stunning item, farming the right Dun'Robar ring is really the pits. I've run that a bunch of times and still have yet to get the ring, so instead, and more new player friendly is to craft a shield with stunning on it. Even at level 28, I'm using a shield with +8 stunning on it.

Other good sources of DC would be the Kensai enhancement, Legendary Dreadnaught (both the tactics ability and the ability to take more strength points), the combat tactics epic destiny feat, as well as using improved sunder for when you haven't gotten your DC high enough for the mobs your up against. That and just doing everything you can to max out strength and charisma.

[ZanderJS]

Gear Recommendations

Balancing gear is always a PITA, frankly, but it's particularly tricky for a tank build, which has a lot of things to worry about. Here's a list of what I consider priorities:

Stat bonuses: STR, CHA, and CON are your primary stats and should be kept as high as possible; bearing in mind than only even stats count towards bonuses. Remember that Div Might is now an Insightful STR bonus, so balance your STR based on how high it will be while DM is active; e.g., if you have STR 21 CHA 20 natively, then w/DM your STR will be 26. WIS needs to be 10 + spell lvl in order to cast spells; so in the long run you need at least WIS 14 to use all pally spells. DEX boosts your AC & Reflex saves; it isn't a top priority, IMHO, but it's still worthwhile after other gear reqs are met. INT is a dump stat.
Dmg bonuses: a Deadly item and a Seeker item are both important; Manslayer (instakill or +100 dmg on vorpal strikes) is also a nice perk.
Fortification: this protects you from sneak atks & critical hits, so it should be kept maxed out.
Saves: thanks to Divine Grace, pallies have naturally high saves, but you'll still want the best Resistance item you can equip; later you'll want a Parrying item as well.
Speed: boosts your movement & atk speeds, both of which are important.
HPs: have the best False Life item equipped; later on add Vitality and, if you get into Shroud-farming, a GS HP item.
AC: it's debatable whether it's worth investing in AC heavily, but if you do, you'll want Protection, Natural Armor, and Parrying bonuses.
Dodge: build as specced can support 4% Dodge (base MDB 1 + 3 SD enhs); higher Dodge req's more investment in MDB increases or switching to med armor.
PRR: some of this is inherent from armor; you'll also want a good Sheltering item equipped.
Heal amp: this boosts all incoming heals and will stack multiplicatively with different bonuses; i.e., 10%+20% heal amp bonuses stack, but 20%+20% does not.
Self-heals: a Devotion item and Heal skill item will boost Positive Spellpower.
SPs: pallies don't get a lot of spell pts, so you'll want a Wizardry item.
Skill bonuses: Intim is the primary skill of every tank, so naturally you'll want the highest bonus to that you can get. Secondary skills like Concentration or Heal should also be boosted.
Threat amp: this boosts your threat and like heal amp will stack with different bonuses.


ML:20 epic "starter" gear

Lots of folks come up with ideal endgame gear lists, but don't bother to tell newbies what to use while leveling. So, here's the stuff which should be relatively easy for a newbie to acquire to get started in epics. I used a lot of Eveningstar Commendation (http://ddowiki.com/page/Commendations) gear, in particular the PDK set because it provides a lot of useful bonuses.

Armor: PDK armor (http://ddowiki.com/page/Purple_Dragon_Armor) (Heavy Fort, SFL, Knights Loyalty)
Head: PDK helm (http://ddowiki.com/page/Purple_Dragon_Helm) (+7 CON, +2 insightful STR, Intim +15) - the STR bonus doesn't stack with Div Might, but the other bonuses are good
Gloves:PDK gloves (http://ddowiki.com/page/Purple_Dragon_Gauntlets) (+7 STR, +2 insightful CON, 30% heal amp) - apart from the stat bonuses, these are the easiest-to-acquire source of 30% heal amp
Goggles: Guardian's Glasses (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Guardian%27s_Glasses_(Level_19)) (+35 Vitality), Woodman's Lenses (http://ddowiki.com/page/Lenses_of_the_Woodsman) (True Seeing, Seeker +6), Drow Smoke Goggles (http://ddowiki.com/page/Drow_Smoke_Goggles) (Seeker +6, Manslayer), Deadly of Resistance lootgen
Cloak: Mithril Cloak of the Bear (http://ddowiki.com/page/Mithral_Cloak_of_the_Bear) (+6 PRR, +6 Protection, Combat Mastery +5, +20% Incite) - this isn't a tactics-oriented build so CM +5 is of limited use, but the rest are solid tanking bonuses
Bracers: Sun Soul Bracers (http://ddowiki.com/page/Bracers_of_the_Sun_Soul) (WIS +7, Parrying IV) - the CON bonus is redudant, but WIS +7 is enough for your spellcasting needs plus it provides Parrying
Belt: a free slot to round out anything you're missing elsewhere
Trinket: Gtr Nimble Trinket (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Greater_Nimble_Trinket) (Blurry, 2% Dodge) - it's sad, but I dunno what else to put here... :o
Boots: Woodsman's Boots (http://ddowiki.com/page/Boots_of_the_Woodsman) (insightful DEX +2, Striding 30%), Speed lootgen
Ring 1: Shining Sun Signet (http://ddowiki.com/page/Signet_of_the_Shining_Sun) (+7 CHA, +2 insightful WIS, Healing Lore VI)
Ring 2: Guardian's Ring (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Guardian%27s_Ring_%28Level_19%29) (24 PRR), Ring of the Stalker (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Ring_of_the_Stalker) upgraded to T2/3 (Seeker +6, Ghostly, Manslayer) - Seeker & Manslayer bonuses don't stack, so it's redundant if you've got Woodmans or Drow Smoke in goggles slot
Weapons: eTemplar's Retribution (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Templar%27s_Retribution) (slotted w/silver for DR-breaking), eChimera's Fang (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Chimera%27s_Fang) (see below), ML:20 Cormyrian bastard swords
Shields: eTemplar's Bulwark (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Templar%27s_Bulwark) (inherent elemental resists), heroic Wall of Wood (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Wall_of_Wood) (heal amp + Devotion)

eFang used to be the best b.sword in DDO; now it's mostly useful as a starter weapon for its bonus consolidation, esp. if you've got the Sentinel DM feat for full bonuses. But since it's not competitive with Nightmare or a Thunder-forged b.sword, I couldn't recommend basing one's build on it anymore.

What about Accuracy and Deathblock?
Would I require items with these?

[unbongwah]

What about Accuracy and Deathblock?
Would I require items with these?
As a paladin you can self-buff with Death Ward, so you only need DB at lower lvls (before you can cast it) or when fighting anything which dispels buffs (e.g., beholders).

The AC changes in U14 made to-hit bonuses less important; and since this is a high-STR, high-BAB toon, I wouldn't be too worried about your to-hit. Go ahead and slot it if you can, but I don't regard it as a high priority.

[EllisDee37]

As a paladin you can self-buff with Death Ward, so you only need DB at lower lvls (before you can cast it) or when fighting anything which dispels buffs (e.g., beholders).Unless you're a pure 20 paladin you only get 2 level 4 spells. Zeal is a given, so are you recommending deathward instead of cure serious?

[elraido]

Unless you're a pure 20 paladin you only get 2 level 4 spells. Zeal is a given, so are you recommending deathward instead of cure serious?

Yes. If your heal amp is good enough, cure mod works just as well. Not only that, but you should be using your LOH's in battle if you are in the Undying line....regenning LOH are very good. With out a devotion item, my paladin is getting 100 points back from a cure mod. If I swap on a wall of wood, I get about 150ish. Deathward, in my opinion, is a much more valuable spell vs getting a marginal amount more of HP back.

[unbongwah]

BTW, would anyone like to take a stab at putting together an endgame gear list? I confess I'm still trying to figure out what to get from the new U21 / Thunder-forged gear...

[elraido]

Off the top of my head for my paladin
Armor: Heavy Black Dragon Scale---want to upgrade to shadow dragon scale (not sure if I want the DR one or the Melee one)
Helm: Purple Dragon Helm
Necklace: Mineral II
Trinket: Deadly X, Natural Armor X compass
Cloak: Level 24 Cloak of Night
Belt: Defender of Siberys (I like it for the incite bonus)
Ring 1: Band of Siberys
Boots: Seeker X of Resistance 6? It is Seeker X for sure.
Gloves: Purple dragon bracers
Ring 2: Ring of Shadows
Bracers: Leviks Bracers (can't have enough healing amp)
Goggles: Concordiant Op Goggles with Char skills
Shield: Shield from Fall of the Truthful One....just got the Purple Dragon Shield.

[Ralmeth]

Yes. If your heal amp is good enough, cure mod works just as well. Not only that, but you should be using your LOH's in battle if you are in the Undying line....regenning LOH are very good. With out a devotion item, my paladin is getting 100 points back from a cure mod. If I swap on a wall of wood, I get about 150ish. Deathward, in my opinion, is a much more valuable spell vs getting a marginal amount more of HP back.

Both cure serious wounds and death ward are good options. Personally I've been running with cure serious wounds, but then i'm usually in legendary dreadnaught and up until I twisted cacoon I found it more helpful to have two cure spells to alternate between due to the cool downs. When I need death ward I would use the Tangleroot clicky or drink a pot (Eveningstar cleric turn in). However that is a good idea and I may switch back to Deathward as cacoon handles most of my healing needs.

In any event there are two good level 4 spell options after picking up zeal.

[Wongar]

Off the top of my head for my paladin
Armor: Heavy Black Dragon Scale---want to upgrade to shadow dragon scale (not sure if I want the DR one or the Melee one)
Helm: Purple Dragon Helm
Necklace: Mineral II
Trinket: Deadly X, Natural Armor X compass
Cloak: Level 24 Cloak of Night
Belt: Defender of Siberys (I like it for the incite bonus)
Ring 1: Band of Siberys
Boots: Seeker X of Resistance 6? It is Seeker X for sure.
Gloves: I seriously can't remember....
Ring 2: Ring of Shadows
Bracers: Purple Dragon Bracers
Goggles: Concordiant Op Goggles with Char skills
Shield: Shield from Fall of the Truthful One

New Purple Dragon Shield from Haunted Halls is very nice, I swapped it in place of my Madstone Aegis (FOT shield) as soon as I pulled it.
FYI - WKI is not correct for this - base shield also includes 15% energy absorption when blocking

[elraido]

New Purple Dragon Shield from Haunted Halls is very nice, I swapped it in place of my Madstone Aegis (FOT shield) as soon as I pulled it.
FYI - WKI is not correct for this - base shield also includes 15% energy absorption when blocking

I just updated mine. Realized I had an item in the wrong spot and corrected....along with the shield you mentioned :)

[elraido]

Both cure serious wounds and death ward are good options. Personally I've been running with cure serious wounds, but then i'm usually in legendary dreadnaught and up until I twisted cacoon I found it more helpful to have two cure spells to alternate between due to the cool downs. When I need death ward I would use the Tangleroot clicky or drink a pot (Eveningstar cleric turn in). However that is a good idea and I may switch back to Deathward as cacoon handles most of my healing needs.

In any event there are two good level 4 spell options after picking up zeal.

You do bring up a very good point. It does matter what ED you are running in. If you have the option to get DW from something else, then yeah, take CSW. I almost always found it easier to just have the spell in case it gets debuffed. But if you are in a more DPS oriented ED, take the healing!!!

[Drathsiddh]

[QUOTE=unbongwah;5286302]Someone PMed me looking for gear suggestions to this build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431057-Pal-fighter?p=5178520&viewfull=1#post5178520); rather than posting to that thread, though, I figured I'd start a new one.


Tanking: Shield Mastery, Imp Shield Mastery, b.sword or d.axe prof., Imp Shield Bash - these feats boost DPS as well as survivability while S&B



Isnt d.axe and b.sword for dps?

Sorry, but how do you highlight your quote? This is my first post so........

[unbongwah]

Isnt d.axe and b.sword for dps?
D.axe & b.sword benefit from glancing blows (http://ddowiki.com/page/Glancing_blows) if you have a shield, orb, or Runearm in your offhand. [Technically, they'll also benefit if you have nothing in your offhand, but DDO doesn't implement the PnP rules for "hand-and-a-half" weapons; i.e., you won't wield them with two hands, so you might as well switch to a regular 2H sword or greataxe.] As a S&B tank, you need all the DPS you can get - partly to maintain aggro, mostly just to kill mobs faster - and investing in glancing blows is one way of doing so. The drawback is the feat cost; pallies are feat-starved, so spending 4 feats for THF chain + exotic prof. is a significant investment. [Dwarves treat d.axes as martial weapons, so they don't need to take the prof.]

Sorry, but how do you highlight your quote?
You put "[ quote ]" in front of what you're quoting and "[ /quote ]" afterward, minus the quote marks and the spaces in the brackets (only way I could get the forum to display them).

[EllisDee37]

You put "[ quote ]" in front of what you're quoting and "[ /quote ]" afterward, minus the quote marks and the spaces in the brackets (only way I could get the forum to display them).Use tags to show codes. For example:


Put the quoted text here.

EDIT: If you quote my post it won't display properly because even though the above quote is noparsed, the reply function thinks it's a quote and so strips it out. The code for the quote line is:


Put the quoted text here.

[unbongwah]

Ah, thanks. In hindsight, should've looked up the BB Codes (https://www.ddo.com/forums/misc.php?do=bbcode), but I was in a rush. :)

[Baldred]

I am a multi-classed Paladin using Dwarven Axes and a shield and need help deciding on a few feats.

I don't have the feat slots in my build to go with the entire Two Handed Fighting Chain. I am wondering if I would average more DPS from taking Improved Shield Bashing or Improved Two Handed Fighting.

Also, I currently have extend, but I am wondering if I would be better off switching to Quicken in higher level content? I have Concentration maxed out and haven't had a problem with my heals getting disrupted yet, but I am only level 18, so haven't started running higher level content yet.

I have to take one of my feats as a metamagic feat because I have one level of Wizard, which I saw Unbongwah recommend in another post a while back. I took this for a variety of reasons and it has worked out well. I Also have Empower heal as one of my feats. I guess as one option, I could drop Extend and empower heal, not worry about Quicken, then take Empower or Maximize and get both Improved and Greater Two Handed Fighting.

I appreciate any advise and thanks in advance for the help!

[Fedora1]

I am a multi-classed Paladin using Dwarven Axes and a shield and need help deciding on a few feats.

I don't have the feat slots in my build to go with the entire Two Handed Fighting Chain. I am wondering if I would average more DPS from taking Improved Shield Bashing or Improved Two Handed Fighting.

Also, I currently have extend, but I am wondering if I would be better off switching to Quicken in higher level content? I have Concentration maxed out and haven't had a problem with my heals getting disrupted yet, but I am only level 18, so haven't started running higher level content yet.

I have to take one of my feats as a metamagic feat because I have one level of Wizard, which I saw Unbongwah recommend in another post a while back. I took this for a variety of reasons and it has worked out well. I Also have Empower heal as one of my feats. I guess as one option, I could drop Extend and empower heal, not worry about Quicken, then take Empower or Maximize and get both Improved and Greater Two Handed Fighting.

I appreciate any advise and thanks in advance for the help!

My advice would be to drop extend, keep emp heal, and quicken is a toss-up.

Before deciding whether to take ISB or ITHF, make sure you have cleave and great cleave. Both are more useful than anything in the THF chain.

[Sokól]

My advice would be to drop extend, keep emp heal, and quicken is a toss-up.

Before deciding whether to take ISB or ITHF, make sure you have cleave and great cleave. Both are more useful than anything in the THF chain.

Good advice but imo quicken is essential esp. if you want to do some ee!

[Fedora1]

Good advice but imo quicken is essential esp. if you want to do some ee!

Yep but really only essential for EE, in EH you can get by with LOH or a high concentrate from my experience. It's nice to have though, but pallys just can't afford everything that's nice. :(

[unbongwah]

I don't have the feat slots in my build to go with the entire Two Handed Fighting Chain. I am wondering if I would average more DPS from taking Improved Shield Bashing or Improved Two Handed Fighting.
To my mind, the THF feats are all-or-nothing, because GTHF provides the biggest boost to DPS. If you've taken at least ftr 2, I would go ISB and add Shield Striking; this should now be stacking with Shield Bashing property on shields (e.g., Madstone Aegis (http://ddowiki.com/page/Madstone_Aegis)) for 55% proc chance (20% ISB feat + 15% Shield Striking + 20% Bashing property).

One possibility I've been mulling lately is using Mornh (http://ddowiki.com/page/Mornh) for S&B. While in LD (http://ddowiki.com/page/Legendary_Dreadnought), w/Pulverizer & Imp Crit Blunt, the crit profile goes to 15-20 x3; x5 on 19-20 if you've got Overwhelming Crit & Devastating Crit. Plus Anvil of Thunder procs a free stun on crits and can proc on double-strikes as well. The drawback is you'd lose glancing blows by switching from d.axe to warhammer while S&B; but if you don't have the feats to spare for THF chain anyway, that's not so big a deal. For THF you could use a drow maul (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Drow_Maul_of_the_Weapon_Master) or any of the named epic ones.

Also, I currently have extend, but I am wondering if I would be better off switching to Quicken in higher level content?
You can get pretty far with just Concentration, but eventually you'll want Quicken if you hope to get your CSWs while in tougher fights. Don't forget you can cast spells while shield-blocking, which improves your chances.

[Baldred]

Thanks for the advice everyone!

My build is Paladin 15/ Fighter 4/ Wizard 1 (currently I am level 18, so Paladin 14/ Fighter 3/ Wizard 1). My last life I was a level 20 Dwarven S&B Fighter and I really enjoyed that play style, but found myself really lacking in the healing department. So this life I decided to create a Paladin. I originally was going to take more Paladin levels, but I found myself very feat-starved, especially after having just played as a fighter, so through the course of my characters life, I have added some fighter levels and a wizard level, which will add 4 feats when all is said and done. I have to admit that I am thoroughly enjoying my build, more so than the fighter version, even if the DPS is lower. With that said, I am trying to max out the DPS I can get from my last few levels. Here is what I have for feats so far:

H1 Toughness
F1 Power Attack
1 Shield Mastery
W1 Extend (Might switch out to Quicken)
3 Exotic Weapon: Dwarven Axe
6 Improved Shield Mastery
9 Two Handed Fighting
12 IC Slashing
15 Cleave
18 Empower heal
F2 Great Cleave
F4 Improved Two handed fighting or Improved Shield Bash
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic Toughness
ED26 Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Blinding Speed or Bulwark of Defense
ED28 Perfect Two Weapon Fighting

It sounds like the majority of you recommend Quicken if I am going to enter EE content, so I am going to highly consider that. Also, I have a tendency to forget to use Divine Might right now. Unlike spells, it doesn't popup with a reminder when it expires. I am thinking that if I don't have extend going, Divine Favor and Zeal will last close to the same amount of time as Divine Might, and I can just refresh all three at once.

Fedora1, I agree with you about Cleave and Great Cleave. I use them often and agree that they are very handy. Also, being that they are prereq's for Overwhelming critical, they were a must have for me:-).

I saw that Ralmeth recommended Stunning Blow. What sort of DC is required to make it work in EE? I am not sure I can get the DC up high enough to make it work for me.

Regarding the THF feats, I understand what you mean Unbongwah. I read on the wiki post that you linked that you get an extra glancing blow on the third attack with GTHF. Looking at my feats, should I substitute another feat and do the whole THF chain? I guess I could take out the toughness feats, but they will be worth almost 100 HP with my stance, which seems like it would be really helpful in EE content. Is there any other feat that you recommend that I get rid of? If I do take Improved Shield Bash, I will need to figure out what to free up for AP, as it would be a shame not to take Shield Strike, as you recommended.

Thanks again for the help everyone!

[EllisDee37]

If I were going to build a sword & board 15/4/1 paladin/fighter/wizard from the ground up, here's the leveling order and feat progression I might consider:

1 Paladin1 - Power Attack, Cleave
2 Paladin2
3 Paladin3 - Exotic Weapon
4 Fighter1 - Great Cleave (requires BAB 4, which is why fighter 1 is taken here)
5 Paladin4
6 Paladin5 - Shield Mastery
7 Paladin6 (ghost touch on all weapons just in time for necro1 and first delera's quest)
8 Fighter2 - Improved Critical (requires BAB 8, so fighter 2 goes here)
9 Paladin7 - Improved Shield Mastery
10 Paladin8
11 Paladin9
12 Paladin10 - Empower Healing Spell (in anticipation of cure moderate next level)
13 Paladin11 (race to paladin 11 to get cure moderate as soon as possible)
14 Wizard1 - Extend (use free feat swap to turn this into quicken when you reach epic levels)
15 Paladin12 - Improved Shield Bash
16 Paladin13
17 Paladin14
18 Paladin15 - Toughness (get both zeal and cure serious by level 18)
19 Fighter3
20 Fighter4 - Improved Sunder
21 - Overwhelming Critical
24 - Epic Toughness
26 - Perfect TWF
27 - Blinding Speed
28 - Perfect THF

I would really, really like to somehow fit in the full THF line, but I couldn't seem to make it work while also getting epic toughness. The natural fit for the THF line would be to swap out the two toughness feats and improved sunder.

[Fedora1]

What about P15/F3/M2 version? That should net an extra feat, correct? Does the W1 give anything other than the metamagic feat? I hate to suggest "splash monk" since it is such a common answer, but even uncentered you get the feat you need and the option of evasion.

EDIT - I am not suggesting you LR, just wanted to put it out there in case someone else was looking at this build. :)

[unbongwah]

14 Wizard1 - Extend (use free feat swap to turn this into quicken when you reach epic levels)
I might suggest taking the wiz splash sooner, maybe shortly after pal lvl 4 (lvl 1 spells) or 6 (defensive stance). The metamagic doesn't matter so much, but having +130 SPs & Echoes of Power (which is just enough to power an un-meta'ed CSW) early on is nice.

Does the W1 give anything other than the metamagic feat?
Magical Training, which also grants Echoes of Power. I believe in the thread where I recommended it, I also suggested Twisting in Endless Faith, which bumps EoP to 30 SPs. [I think this was on a BF pally, so I needed the extra bump to power Reconstruct SLA while on EoP.] But now that US gets Renewal - and presuming you Twist in Rejuv Cocoon like every other melee - it helps a pally tank too. You can take MT as a chosen feat, but that eats up the extra feat you just gained, so it's a wash. OTOH, Evasion is always nice if you're not planning on hvy armor. :)

[Ralmeth]

I saw that Ralmeth recommended Stunning Blow. What sort of DC is required to make it work in EE? I am not sure I can get the DC up high enough to make it work for me.

If you're planning on EE then I wouldn't bother with Stunning Blow because you're not going to get your DC high enough. Stunning Blow is very viable for a Paladin on EH and lower, if you build for it.

[EllisDee37]

I might suggest taking the wiz splash sooner, maybe shortly after pal lvl 4 (lvl 1 spells) or 6 (defensive stance). The metamagic doesn't matter so much, but having +130 SPs & Echoes of Power (which is just enough to power an un-meta'ed CSW) early on is nice.I disagree.

Until you have 11 paladin levels, you only get cure light wounds, which costs a measly 6 spell points to cast. A simple wizardry item gives you tons of uses of it. More than plenty. I say this from the experience of having run a paladin splash build to level 11 in the past week or so. (He's currently level 11 with 9 paladin levels, so still just using cure light @ 6 mana a pop.)

Taking the wizard level before paladin 11 is counterproductive in that it delays getting cure moderate. You list cure serious as a reason, but paladins don't get that until paladin level 14. (Or 15, more likely.)

Also, if you take it before paladin level 6 you delay ghost touch on all weapons until after necro1 and delera's part 1, meaning you need a separate ghost touch weapon. I suppose you could push one of the fighter levels back, but they both bring real value in the form of getting key feats earlier. (Great Cleave @ 4, Improved Critical @ 8.) By contrast, the wizard level only gets you more of what amounts to endless castings of cure light wounds anyway.

Add in the many cure lights you can cast with four lay on hands @ paladin 2 plus unyielding sovereignty @ paladin 6, you have sufficient healing to get to paladin 11 (@ 13) without needing echoes.

[unbongwah]

Shoot, I forgot CMW is a lvl 3 spell, not lvl 2. :( All right, then, you talked me out of it.

[Ralmeth]

I disagree.

Until you have 11 paladin levels, you only get cure light wounds, which costs a measly 6 spell points to cast. A simple wizardry item gives you tons of uses of it. More than plenty. I say this from the experience of having run a paladin splash build to level 11 in the past week or so. (He's currently level 11 with 9 paladin levels, so still just using cure light @ 6 mana a pop.)

Taking the wizard level before paladin 11 is counterproductive in that it delays getting cure moderate. You list cure serious as a reason, but paladins don't get that until paladin level 14. (Or 15, more likely.)

Also, if you take it before paladin level 6 you delay ghost touch on all weapons until after necro1 and delera's part 1, meaning you need a separate ghost touch weapon. I suppose you could push one of the fighter levels back, but they both bring real value in the form of getting key feats earlier. (Great Cleave @ 4, Improved Critical @ 8.) By contrast, the wizard level only gets you more of what amounts to endless castings of cure light wounds anyway.

Add in the many cure lights you can cast with four lay on hands @ paladin 2 plus unyielding sovereignty @ paladin 6, you have sufficient healing to get to paladin 11 (@ 13) without needing echoes.

I agree with this. At low levels just use cure wands for out of combat healing, and use your spell points to power divine favor and divine sacrifice.

[Baldred]

@ EllisDee37, I agree that your leveling order is more optimal than what I listed and is recommended for the reasons that you outlined. I went with my order to try to acquire some extra feats earlier on. Regarding the THF feats, I ran into the same conundrum of really wanting the whole line, but not being able to fit them all in.

@ Fedora1, you are correct, P15/F3/M2 would net the same number of feats and was very tempting. I decided against it because as nice as evasion would be, I really wanted this guy in heavy armor. Maybe I will consider it for his next life to see how I like it. After all, I could just wear light armor where evasion is needed and then wear heavy armor the rest of the time:-). In regards to Wiz1, you get the metamagic feat, the +130 SPs & Echoes of Power that Unbongwah mentioned, in my case due to my current Intelligence stat another +80 SP for a total of +210 SP, and three level 1 wizard spells. The level 1 spells really ended up being a nice little bonus. I have been using Jump and Expeditious Retreat since early levels and still use them regularly. As a low level character wearing heavy armor and using a shield, it was nice to have a +10 to my jump skill. Also, I have not had a striding item during this life, which has freed up an item slot for other things. Both spells when extended last for 10 minutes per casting, which is really nice.

@ Unbongwah, I believe you are correct, that it was the thread about the Bladeforged paladins that you had mentioned the wizard level. I was trying to figure out ways of getting more feats and you mentioned taking a Wizard level to obtain Quicken on your build. It sounded like a good idea, so I went with it for the feat and other perks listed above:-)

@ Ralmeth, I suspected as much regarding the Stunning Blow DC, thank you for confirming.

[Fedora1]

[QUOTE=Baldred;5307213@ Fedora1, you are correct, P15/F3/M2 would net the same number of feats and was very tempting. I decided against it because as nice as evasion would be, I really wanted this guy in heavy armor. Maybe I will consider it for his next life to see how I like it. After all, I could just wear light armor where evasion is needed and then wear heavy armor the rest of the time:-). In regards to Wiz1, you get the metamagic feat, the +130 SPs & Echoes of Power that Unbongwah mentioned, in my case due to my current Intelligence stat another +80 SP for a total of +210 SP, and three level 1 wizard spells. The level 1 spells really ended up being a nice little bonus. I have been using Jump and Expeditious Retreat since early levels and still use them regularly. As a low level character wearing heavy armor and using a shield, it was nice to have a +10 to my jump skill. Also, I have not had a striding item during this life, which has freed up an item slot for other things. Both spells when extended last for 10 minutes per casting, which is really nice. [/QUOTE]

Okay thanks - I saw unbongwah's reply also explaining that. It makes sense and essentially is a matter of preference. Do you end up with arcane spell failure often due to the heavy armor? That would waste a few spell points, though probably not enough to cancel the extra SP you get from going wiz1. As far as jump goes, those potions are cheap and easy to come by (market vendor), and are only really needed situationally. As for expeditious retreat, I don't think I would use it to save a slot, since what you want now is not a striding item but rather a speed item, to get the extra attack speed with the run bonus.

Still I can see some usefulness to the Wiz1 level, but I am thinking if you're going to go melee, the extra feat from monk would be nice, and evasion is probably more useful than heavy armor, unless it's just a flavor thing. Did you spend any AP in Eldritch Knight?

[unbongwah]

I've updated the third post (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438704-Revisiting-the-Sacred-Defender-for-New-Players?p=5286304&viewfull=1#post5286304) with a pal 15 / ftr 4 / wiz 1 build based on recent discussions and the BF pally build I did a while back. I decided to take the wiz splash @ lvl 7 after ITHF mostly for the arcane buffage. When Ron's builder finally gets updated for U21, I may tweak things to see if I can max W&S Mastery; +75% to CSW wands really cuts down on your healing costs early on.

[apekzz]

Hi Unbongwah,

I understand this build idea is for new players but i so interested in building one of my own..

Been fasinated with SnB for quite long but since DDO in general is a min-max game, i shelved the idea.

Love the ideas being presented by everyone in this thread.

Here i present to you a PDK variant of the 15/4/1 Paladin/Fighter/Wizard build.

Some critic/advise would be greatly appreciated.






Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Lawful Good Purple Dragon Knight Male
(4 Fighter \ 15 Paladin \ 1 Wizard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 459
Spell Points: 526
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 12
Will: 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 16 27
Dexterity 8 12
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 14 18
Wisdom 8 12
Charisma 14 18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance -1 20
Bluff 2 12
Concentration 5 36
Diplomacy 2 12
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 18
Heal 1 32
Hide -1 9
Intimidate 6 38
Jump 3 16
Listen -1 9
Move Silently -1 9
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 12
Search 2 12
Spellcraft 2 12
Spot -1 9
Swim 3 16
Tumble 1 11
Use Magic Device 4 23

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Abjuration I: Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 3)


Level 16 (Fighter)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Overbalance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Redemption (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Inciting Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Inciting Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Inciting Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Shield Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Shield Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Shield Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Holy Strike


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target




Enhancements are done at lvl 15 since Iconics start at level 15.

Questions i wanna ask is the leveling split optimal?
Would you do it in another way perhaps?
I know enhancements are dependant on each person play

[EllisDee37]

I've updated the third post (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438704-Revisiting-the-Sacred-Defender-for-New-Players?p=5286304&viewfull=1#post5286304) with a pal 15 / ftr 4 / wiz 1 build based on recent discussions and the BF pally build I did a while back. I decided to take the wiz splash @ lvl 7 after ITHF mostly for the arcane buffage. When Ron's builder finally gets updated for U21, I may tweak things to see if I can max W&S Mastery; +75% to CSW wands really cuts down on your healing costs early on.Two minor tweaks: I would switch levels 7 and 8, taking paladin at 7 and wizard at 8 to get ghost touch on all weapons for delera's and necro1. And then (similarly) switch 18 and 19, taking fighter at 19 and paladin at 18 to get both zeal and cure serious by level 18.

Both changes become irrelevant once the second level in each change is taken, but make the leveling process more pleasant.

[unbongwah]

Two minor tweaks: I would switch levels 7 and 8, taking paladin at 7 and wizard at 8 to get ghost touch on all weapons for delera's and necro1. And then (similarly) switch 18 and 19, taking fighter at 19 and paladin at 18 to get both zeal and cure serious by level 18.
I think I staggered out my lvl ups like that to squeeze as much out of my skill pts as I could; in particular, delaying pal 15 a lvl let me put a bit more into Heal & Concentration.

[Baldred]

Okay thanks - I saw unbongwah's reply also explaining that. It makes sense and essentially is a matter of preference. Do you end up with arcane spell failure often due to the heavy armor? That would waste a few spell points, though probably not enough to cancel the extra SP you get from going wiz1. As far as jump goes, those potions are cheap and easy to come by (market vendor), and are only really needed situationally. As for expeditious retreat, I don't think I would use it to save a slot, since what you want now is not a striding item but rather a speed item, to get the extra attack speed with the run bonus.

Still I can see some usefulness to the Wiz1 level, but I am thinking if you're going to go melee, the extra feat from monk would be nice, and evasion is probably more useful than heavy armor, unless it's just a flavor thing. Did you spend any AP in Eldritch Knight?

Yes, I do end up with Arcane Spell Failure. Most Heavy armors have ASF of 35%. I crafted a pair of gloves with Lesser Casting Dexterity on them for -5% to that. Most shields, other than bucklers also have an ASF. On one of my hot bars, next to my wizard spells, I keep the gloves and a buckler. When I am needing to cast the Wizard spells, I just switch over to them really quick, then switch back when I am done. This gives me a better than 2 out of 3 chance on average of succeeding when casting the spell, which is way more than made up for with the added spell points. Please note though, that it is important to switch to a buckler and not just unequip your shield though, or else you lose your HP bonus from your defensive stance and have to heal yourself back up.

Your right about jump, you can certainly just use potions, I just found it to be a nice bonus to not have to waste inventory space on the potions. I would certainly never add the wizard level just for this spell!

As for Expeditious retreat, you make a good point about the speed items, now that they add striding and extra attack speed. For new players (which this thread was created for), I would recommend that they do consider that. At lower levels though, Expeditions retreat is still really nice because the speed items don't give a large attack speed bonus or run bonus. For example, I believe that at a ML3 Speed item only gives 10% run speed and 2% bonus to attack speed. In my case at that level, I was getting a 25% run speed bonus, and I have a high crafting level on another character and I made a pair of goggles that are ML3 that have 10% melee alacrity, featherfall and a guild slot that I used to increase my HP's with. To get an item with the same attack speed bonus, you are looking at SpeedX, which is something like ML18. This isn't something possible for a new player though because it takes a crafting level of 130 to create. Also, regarding the open item slot from using Expeditious retreat, I was able use it put a Concordant Opposition Greensteel set of boots that I made on my last life right before TR'ing, so it worked out great for me. Again, this isn't something that a new player will be able to do, so they will want to really weigh there options when deciding there class and equipment. Then again, if they truly are a new player, they may not have access to monk;-).

Regarding Eldritch Knight, there are some nice enhancements that a level 1 Wizard can take:

-For 1 AP, the core 1 enhancement gives you another cleave attack, +1% doublestrike, and 0.5% universal spellpower/ point spent in Eldritch Knight (note, while testing enhancements, I seem to be actually getting 1% universal spellpower/ point spent).
-For 3 AP, you get +15 HP (this is actually +18 HP's with Defensive Stance) (and additional Universal Spellpower from Core 1 enhancement).
-For 3 AP, you get +10% to your total AC (and additional Universal Spellpower from Core 1 enhancement).

[EllisDee37]

Don't forget that wands have no ASF check. This is nice for invisibility, but a revelation for sonic blast. Specifically, Cacophonic Verge (http://ddowiki.com/page/Cacophonic_Verge), which is so full of unbridled awesome I can't stand it. It says it recharges 50/day, but that's being modest. It literally recharges one charge every 2 seconds, all the time. In other words, if you cast it 50 times in a row keeping it on cooldown, after the 50th cast it would probably be somewhere around 35 charges left. Now 36. 37... It's so good it's ridiculous.

And, as mentioned, as a wand it has no ASF check. (Unlike Sonic Blast scrolls, which do.) This is quite possibly my very favorite piece of gear in the entire game, and it continues to be useful no matter how high level you are. Barrels now know me as Death, Shouter of Doom.

[EllisDee37]

I think I staggered out my lvl ups like that to squeeze as much out of my skill pts as I could; in particular, delaying pal 15 a lvl let me put a bit more into Heal & Concentration.I'll put together a skills table to see what I can come up with. Out of curiosity, and because I can never make heads or tails out of the default character planner skills summary, how many trained ranks did you end up with in each skill by 20?

[BoBoDaClown]

Heal amp: this boosts all incoming heals and will stack multiplicatively with different bonuses; i.e., 10%+20% heal amp bonuses stack, but 20%+20% does not.


Don't same numbers of different types stack? i.e. 1.2 race x 1.2 item x 1.2 class. You just couldn't stack a 1.2 item with another 1.2 item.

[unbongwah]

Out of curiosity, and because I can never make heads or tails out of the default character planner skills summary, how many trained ranks did you end up with in each skill by 20?
23 ranks of Intim; 22 ranks of Heal & Concentration; 11 ranks of UMD; 1 rank of Tumble & Jump (leftover ftr pt).

Don't same numbers of different types stack? i.e. 1.2 race x 1.2 item x 1.2 class. You just couldn't stack a 1.2 item with another 1.2 item.
Correct: racial and class-based (KotC or Shintao) heal amp (http://ddowiki.com/page/Healing_Amplification) always stack; gear-based heal amp only stacks if it's different percentages.

[Cardtrick]

Don't forget that wands have no ASF check. This is nice for invisibility, but a revelation for sonic blast. Specifically, Cacophonic Verge (http://ddowiki.com/page/Cacophonic_Verge), which is so full of unbridled awesome I can't stand it. It says it recharges 50/day, but that's being modest. It literally recharges one charge every 2 seconds, all the time. In other words, if you cast it 50 times in a row keeping it on cooldown, after the 50th cast it would probably be somewhere around 35 charges left. Now 36. 37... It's so good it's ridiculous.

Some day, I suspect they will change Tomb of the Tormented so Cacophonic Verge no longer works there. That will most likely be the day I stop running Tomb of the Tormented.

I swear Cacophonic Verge is my favorite piece of equipment after a pale lavender ioun stone.

[EllisDee37]

Some day, I suspect they will change Tomb of the Tormented so Cacophonic Verge no longer works there. That will most likely be the day I stop running Tomb of the Tormented.

I swear Cacophonic Verge is my favorite piece of equipment after a pale lavender ioun stone.Nice tip.

I solo tomb of the tormented every life on every alt. It's one of my favorite quests, up there with crucible. I was unaware that sonic blast worked through the floors; ever since they fixed pale master aura I have played it straight. Even on non-trapping characters. Playing the maze totally straight while leaving all the traps active grants a special kind of satisfaction not found elsewhere in the game, not even in quests like crucible or the pit.

[BoBoDaClown]

23 ranks of Intim; 22 ranks of Heal & Concentration; 11 ranks of UMD; 1 rank of Tumble & Jump (leftover ftr pt).

Correct: racial and class-based (KotC or Shintao) heal amp (http://ddowiki.com/page/Healing_Amplification) always stack; gear-based heal amp only stacks if it's different percentages.

Might want to change OP then? New players might find the HAmp description confusing, since I did, and I used to have a Hamp tank :)

[unbongwah]

Questions i wanna ask is the leveling split optimal?
Would you do it in another way perhaps?
Since you didn't list how you spent your skill pts, I'm just gonna presume you maxed out everything you wanted. :)

I would start CON 14 CHA 16: +1 saves +1 CHA skills +1 STR (Div Might) is more important than +28 HPs, IMHO; unless you plan to go for Toughness+eToughness (base CON 21 pre-req). Alternatively, you might want to consider starting 17/9/14/10/8/16; that would let you add Dodge somewhere, if I can figure out what feat to drop for it. I would invest enough into Sacred D. to pick up defensive stance to start, as well as max Extra LoHs.

[EllisDee37]

I think I staggered out my lvl ups like that to squeeze as much out of my skill pts as I could; in particular, delaying pal 15 a lvl let me put a bit more into Heal & Concentration.
I'll put together a skills table to see what I can come up with. Out of curiosity, and because I can never make heads or tails out of the default character planner skills summary, how many trained ranks did you end up with in each skill by 20?
23 ranks of Intim; 22 ranks of Heal & Concentration; 11 ranks of UMD; 1 rank of Tumble & Jump (leftover ftr pt).Yeah, the skills on this build are super tricky. I was able to switch the wizard and paladin levels at 7 & 8 to allow ghost touch at level 7, but there was simply no way to take fighter levels at both 19 and 20 without sacrificing skills.

I did manage to squeeze in a 23rd point in concentration, effectively moving over that one extra rank in jump. It was not easy, though; that one leftover fighter rank kept showing up no matter what I did. Moving the last 2 fighter levels from 18 & 20 to 17 & 19 finally solved the problem.

Normally I avoid ever spending half-ranks on any given level, but for this I was forced to take a half-rank in umd on four different levels. Here's the table:

..........P..P..P..F..P..P..P..W..P..P..P..P..P..P ..F..P..F..P..F..P
..........1..2..3..4..5..6..7..8..9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
.........------------------------------------------------------------
Intimid...2..2.....3..1..1..1.....1..1.....2.....2 ..2.....2.....2..1..23
Concent...4..1..1.....1.....1..3..1..1..1..1..1..1 .....2.....2.....2..23
Heal......4..1..1.....2..1..1.....1..2..1..1..1..1 .....2.....2.....1..22
UMD.......2.....1..½.....1..½..½..½.....1..... 1.....1.....1.....1.....11
Tumble....1....................................... ....................1
.........------------------------------------------------------------
.........16..4..4..4..4..4..4..4..4..4..4..4..4..4 ..4..4..4..4..4..4

In case you're wondering, I coded my skills spreadsheet to auto-generate this output format.

[Cardtrick]

In case you're wondering, I coded my skills spreadsheet to auto-generate this output format.

I admit it. I'm starting to worry about you.

[EllisDee37]

hehheh.

[unbongwah]

Yeah, the skills on this build are super tricky. I was able to switch the wizard and paladin levels at 7 & 8 to allow ghost touch at level 7, but there was simply no way to take fighter levels at both 19 and 20 without sacrificing skills.
If not for the skills, I wouldn't mind backloading the final ftr lvls, since I just use them to grab shield feats & a couple of Stalwart perks. But as it is, I had to stagger things out. Not that losing a couple of pts of Concentration & Heal is a big deal, but...why make the sacrifice if I don't have to? :)

Anyway, based on your advice, I swapped lvl 7 & 8 on the build.

I admit it. I'm starting to worry about you.
Whereas I'm jealous my spreadsheet skills aren't that clever. Is that more or less worrisome? :o

[Baldred]

New Purple Dragon Shield from Haunted Halls is very nice, I swapped it in place of my Madstone Aegis (FOT shield) as soon as I pulled it.
FYI - WKI is not correct for this - base shield also includes 15% energy absorption when blocking


Does anyone know if the increased shield bashing 20% from "Improved Bashing X" on the Purple Dragon Shield Stacks with feats and enhancements similar to the way that "shield bashing- X%" does from other items? The description is written differently so I am unclear, for example:

Improved Bashing X says "On shield bash: +5d4 Bludgeoning damage. On melee hit: 20% chance to automatically hit your enemy with a shield bash attack."

Shield Bashing- X% says "This shield adds a X% chance to make a secondary shield bash while attacking. This stacks with bonuses granted by any relevant feats." (note, replace X with 10 or 20 depending on the item)

I was contemplating changing my toughness feats to Improved Shield Bashing and Greater Two Handed fighting for less survivorability versus more DPS as Unbongwah suggested in his post #3, as my build is similar to that one. I also am looking at farming or purchasing a Purple Dragon Shield from the AH, but it would be a huge bummer if it doesn't stack with the feat.

If anyone could shed some light on this for me, that would be great!

[HawkFest]

Second, the first piece of advice offered to most newbies out to make S&B pallies is: don't make a S&B pally. :rolleyes: In most cases, the threat & survivability bonuses from S&B doesn't outweigh the DPS loss of not going THF/TWF. Furthermore, S&B pally builds are actually more feat-intensive than a pure DPS pally; and pallies are feat-constrained as it is. Usually the best "Defenders" are those who focused on DPS, with a little bit extra invested in threat amp & survivability than pure DPS builds.
Thanks a lot! I'm a pure newbie with these games looking forward to create a first "thought-out" build. Two questions :

1. I don't know what "S&B" "DPS", THF" or TWF mean thus I can't understand much of what seems to be an important concept... Some enlightenment - or leads - please (a brief description will suffice, at least the full words since they seem to be abbreviations)? Note that I've read some references and posts lately using those abbrv., but none actually wrote what they are nor their full words, assuming the reader's fore-knowledge (thus addressing to non-noobs unlike me)...

2. How is "threat amplitude" important, what does it represent, is it like some measure of the potential for one's hit to become critical? Or an aptitude which makes the foes flee away, or freeze standing still for several seconds? Does it have something to do with the hate/aggravation some damage generates on a foe? I'm a noob trying to guess and "clarify noobish confusion", my apologies... :confused:

[inspiredunease]

Thanks a lot! I'm a pure newbie with these games looking forward to create a first "thought-out" build. Two questions :

1. I don't know what "S&B" "DPS", THF" or TWF mean thus I can't understand much of what seems to be an important concept... Some enlightenment - or leads - please (a brief description will suffice, at least the full words since they seem to be abbreviations)? Note that I've read some references and posts lately using those abbrv., but none actually wrote what they are nor their full words, assuming the reader's fore-knowledge (thus addressing to non-noobs unlike me)...

2. How is "threat amplitude" important, what does it represent, is it like some measure of the potential for one's hit to become critical? Or an aptitude which makes the foes flee away, or freeze standing still for several seconds? Does it have something to do with the hate/aggravation some damage generates on a foe? I'm a noob trying to guess and "clarify noobish confusion", my apologies... :confused:

1.

S&B = Sword and Board (sword and shield)
DPS = Damage per second
THF = Two handed fighting
TWF = Two weapon fighting

There is a full glossary here (http://ddowiki.com/page/Glossary) should you wish to look up anything else in future.

2.

Threat is your ability to hold mobs (mobile, or monster) attention, i.e. the ability to be the one to take the damage rather than your more squishy (vulnerable) party members. It is a "tanking" concept, which is central to the idea of being a s&b paladin in some peoples eyes.

EDIT: I accidentally a word.

[unbongwah]

To elaborate on what was just said: in simplest terms, "threat (http://ddowiki.com/page/Threat) = DPS * threat amp." There are various sources of threat amp, inc. Enhancements like Threatening Countenance and Inciting Defense; gear such as the Vulkoor's Might set; and the Intimidate skill. Part of being a good tank is having enough threat to keep mobs & bosses off of other party members; but since threat is based on DPS, you can't just ignore it completely. So it's all a balancing act.