What would make you accept Akamai Netsession?

[Kaisoni]

Edit: Because a few people have linked it now, and people don't tend to read beyond the first post: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438330-Akamai-NetSession-and-DDO?p=5282752.
Turns out Turbine are already looking into fixing some of the large problems (and most of the things I took issue with).

-------------

Personally there are a few things that would need to change for me to go through with installing it:

1) Change the EULA so that it's less open about what I would have to agree it can "legally" do on my computer. So remove:
- That it can use internet bandwidth in the background without my knowledge or permission (especially not uploading).
- That it can update itself without asking first.
- That they can update the EULA without asking me to agree to the new version.

Thankfully it does seem that Turbine are going to try to get the EULA changed so that it at least doesn't say that it's using peer to peer:

We are aware that the Akamai EULA discusses things that are not implemented in our version of the client, such as references to utilizing upload speed, but that is not being used for DDO. We are looking into our options in regard to the required EULA text, but the EULA text has to remain intact for now.

The other two points would also need a change in how Akamai does their updates (both software and the EULA updates). Which I don't really see happening, but until they do it's kind of dodgy that they could make changes that most people won't notice behind their backs while making it supposedly legally binding. But it's not the worst thing and I'd probably be willing to overlook this if it wasn't for the other things.

2) Change Netsession so that it does not start up with Windows. There is absolutely no good reason for it to do so, especially so for the way that Turbine are supposedly using it. Make it start up with the DDO launcher, and close either when the game closes or preferably when the launcher closes (and the game starts up). I think this second one is probably the biggest thing for most people. It makes it less worrying that it's doing other things if it's not running all the bloody time when it doesn't need to be.

I'm pretty sure that I understand why Turbine are using this program. I imagine it takes quite a large strain off their servers and helps improve the speed and accuracy of checking which files are needed without Turbine having to devote resources to servers and software to do it themselves.

However the way this current one is implemented and worded is just not acceptable so until they fix this stuff I'll be using DDO-ML to play DDO so that I don't have to agree to this. (And no, that people can use fan made launchers to play the game without using it is not an acceptable reason to leave it how it is).

I'd be even more impressed if Turbine made an option in the launcher to not use/re-install Akamai Netsession (obviously default would be to use it) in addition to the above fixes.


Something that amused me as I was reading through it:

Top of the EULA:

The Akamai NetSession Interface Extended ("NetSession Interface") is a secure networking serviceIt's secure!

Further down the EULA:

Akamai does not represent or warrant that the Software or materials provided through use of the Software are accurate, complete, reliable, timely, secure, current, or error-free. Those who download this Software from other jurisdictions do so at their own risk and are responsible for compliance with local law.It's not secure!

[TheDarkTraveler]

There are several threads on this already, you're pretty much rehashing what people have already said.

Cheers

[Lonnbeimnech]

I just scrolled to the bottom and hit the accept button.

It's really not that complicated.

[Caliban]

I just scrolled to the bottom and hit the accept button.

It's really not that complicated.

Same here. The amount of hysterical paranoia about this is both amusing and saddening

[shadowowl]

I just scrolled to the bottom and hit the accept button.

It's really not that complicated.

sounds about right. microsoft has been collecting and sharing data for years I figure who ever wanted it already has it lol.

[enochiancub]

I just scrolled to the bottom and hit the accept button.

It's really not that complicated.

I got a little confused at the scrolling part, but I figured it out.

[enteriiblackwater]

I don't get the hysteria, I ran Wireshark on it just to ease my mind. Apart from when I start DDO it has done nothing at all.

People making a mountain out of a molehill.

Ent

[Duskslayer]

I don't get the hysteria, I ran Wireshark on it just to ease my mind. Apart from when I start DDO it has done nothing at all.

People making a mountain out of a molehill.

Ent


It is more of a statement that that we ARE trampling on your rights - and there is nothing you can do about it.

As for transmitting data, the Turbine and DDO client are sending that data from right WITHIN DDO client. And Akamai is not the only sniffer active within.

See here:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/437910-DDO-Connections-from-WITHIN-dndclient-exe-see-for-yourself-using-NetLimiter

Don't believe me? Download the FREE trial of NetLimiter and see for yourself.

http://i61.tinypic.com/3wqc7.jpg

[Lonnbeimnech]

It is more of a statement that that we ARE trampling on your rights - and there is nothing you can do about it.

As for transmitting data, the Turbine and DDO client are sending that data from right WITHIN DDO client. And Akamai is not the only sniffer active within.

See here:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/437910-DDO-Connections-from-WITHIN-dndclient-exe-see-for-yourself-using-NetLimiter

Don't believe me? Download the FREE trial of NetLimiter and see for yourself.

http://i61.tinypic.com/3wqc7.jpg

Not only that but they sent packages to my computer. It's not even my computer's birthday!

[Nestroy]

I think, at least the Akamai topic meanwhile will find some positive conclusion, see here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438330-Akamai-NetSession-and-DDO?p=5282752&posted=1#post5282752).

[Kaisoni]

I don't get the hysteria, I ran Wireshark on it just to ease my mind. Apart from when I start DDO it has done nothing at all.

People making a mountain out of a molehill.

Ent

Clearly there's two things to take away from this.

1) People will sign anything as long as they get something out of it (even if it's something they've already had for a long time).

2) People are happy to install a program that they don't require or want onto their computer that can update itself without your knowledge or permission to do pretty much anything at all at some point in the future (as long as it's not doing anything bad when they first look into it).

Personally I think the scariest thing is that so many people are pretty much BRAGGING that they do these things xD

[Chai]

If it installed, did what it is supposed to, then uninstalled and left nothing on the PC, it would be far more acceptable.

It can be re-pushed on each update/patch/hotfix etc.

[Chai]

Clearly there's two things to take away from this.

1) People will sign anything as long as they get something out of it (even if it's something they've already had for a long time).

2) People are happy to install a program that they don't require or want onto their computer that can update itself without your knowledge or permission to do pretty much anything at all at some point in the future (as long as it's not doing anything bad when they first look into it).

Personally I think the scariest thing is that so many people are pretty much BRAGGING that they do these things xD

This.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Clearly there's two things to take away from this.

1) People will sign anything as long as they get something out of it (even if it's something they've already had for a long time).

2) People are happy to install a program that they don't require or want onto their computer that can update itself without your knowledge or permission to do pretty much anything at all at some point in the future (as long as it's not doing anything bad when they first look into it).

Personally I think the scariest thing is that so many people are pretty much BRAGGING that they do these things xD

Or, people have been using computers long enough to know that they are never secure and the only way to be safe is to put nothing of importance on them in the first place.

[Kaisoni]

I think, at least the Akamai topic meanwhile will find some positive conclusion, see here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438330-Akamai-NetSession-and-DDO?p=5282752&posted=1#post5282752).

Thanks for linking that. I'm a lot happier about this now.

[Chai]

Or, people have been using computers long enough to know that they are never secure and the only way to be safe is to put nothing of importance on them in the first place.

Theres a difference between a locked door with a guard posted, and a propped open door with a no one home sign next to it.

Never completely secure is one thing, but installing a back door and agreeing to waive all responsibility for security - cant even be compared as a similar situation.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Theres a difference between a locked door with a guard posted, and a propped open door with a no one home sign next to it.

Never completely secure is one thing, but installing a back door and agreeing to waive all responsibility for security - cant even be compared as a similar situation.

Going with this analogy, I've installed a back door and agreed to waive all responsibility for security to a fictional house with a made up address under an assumed name.

[Kaisoni]

Or, people have been using computers long enough to know that they are never secure and the only way to be safe is to put nothing of importance on them in the first place.

Except having personal files/information leaked isn't the worst thing that can happen. What if someone was using your computer as a proxy to access illegal content or perform illegal activities? You could get into serious legal trouble. I'm not saying it's probable, but it's at least certainly possible.

And then there's money, and/or inconvenience. Having uploads and downloads that you do not want eating bandwidth can range from expensive to an annoyance and not really something that I want to have to deal with.

Having a computer filled with viruses can also range from a very expensive ordeal to a massive waste of time. A lot of people don't know how to deal with malware that's gotten onto their system and places that remove viruses usually charge rather large amounts for the service. On the other end: formatting is a massive hassle and a large time sink and again something that I don't like having to do if I can help it. (Not that I'm saying formatting is always the only answer, but it's the near worst case scenario)

[Shorlong]

Except having personal files/information leaked isn't the worst thing that can happen. What if someone was using your computer as a proxy to access illegal content or perform illegal activities? You could get into serious legal trouble. I'm not saying it's probable, but it's at least certainly possible.

And then there's money, and/or inconvenience. Having uploads and downloads that you do not want eating bandwidth can range from expensive to an annoyance and not really something that I want to have to deal with.

Having a computer filled with viruses can also range from a very expensive ordeal to a massive waste of time. A lot of people don't know how to deal with malware that's gotten onto their system and places that remove viruses usually charge rather large amounts for the service. On the other end: formatting is a massive hassle and a large time sink and again something that I don't like having to do if I can help it. (Not that I'm saying formatting is always the only answer, but it's the near worst case scenario)

See, here is my outlook. I don't live my life based around the assumption of a 1% chance of something happening. I also don't keep anything exceptionally important on my PC. If someone DID happen to start using my computer as a proxy server...well...my ISP has systems in place to let me know about suspicious behavior. They would know very quickly (like, when I was downloading TERA after I upgraded my PC to windows 8....50 gigs on p2p set off some alarms on their side of things and they contacted me).

[TheDarkTraveler]

If you haven't seen it:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438330-Akamai-NetSession-and-DDO

Basically the Akamai NetSession client and EULA are both being altered in response to users complaints and worries.

[Chai]

Going with this analogy, I've installed a back door and agreed to waive all responsibility for security to a fictional house with a made up address under an assumed name.

And now its on you to make sure all of that is assumed and none of it can be linked back to you. Good luck on that -unless you have no online presense and never transact online. You play DDo so I already know thats false.

After reading their eula its easy to understand why people are concerned. Even though Turbine distributes the client with p2p disabled, once it lands on peoples hard drives, Turbine is out of the picture as far as akamai's eula is concerned. The agreement they expect peopel to agree to is between akamai and the user only.

Turbine has responded to that valid concern here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438330-Akamai-NetSession-and-DDO

[Lonnbeimnech]

And now its on you to make sure all of that is assumed and none of it can be linked back to you. Good luck on that -unless you have no online presense and never transact online. You play DDo so I already know thats false.

You can get disposable pre-paid visa cards. Kinda work like a debit card, but its not connected to a bank account, it's connected to a number on a receipt, but once that $50 or $150 or whatever you put on it is used, it's empty, and it works in places where you need a credit card.

[Duskslayer]

If you haven't seen it:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438330-Akamai-NetSession-and-DDO

Basically the Akamai NetSession client and EULA are both being altered in response to users complaints and worries.



http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/images/smilies2/yay.gifWe did it! http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/images/smilies2/yay.gif

Well done devs. Thank you for listening.

Now.... what about those sniffer packets being SENT from WITHIN the DDO client???
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/437910-DDO-Connections-from-WITHIN-dndclient-exe-see-for-yourself-using-NetLimiter

[NaturalHazard]

I think, at least the Akamai topic meanwhile will find some positive conclusion, see here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438330-Akamai-NetSession-and-DDO?p=5282752&posted=1#post5282752).

yep, happy with that, especially the option to get rid of it once it does its job.

[NaturalHazard]

Clearly there's two things to take away from this.

1) People will sign anything as long as they get something out of it (even if it's something they've already had for a long time).

2) People are happy to install a program that they don't require or want onto their computer that can update itself without your knowledge or permission to do pretty much anything at all at some point in the future (as long as it's not doing anything bad when they first look into it).

Personally I think the scariest thing is that so many people are pretty much BRAGGING that they do these things xD

Yep lol they are so daring and devil may care...........bet it makes all the ladies swoon.

[hunterjwizard]

Hell freezing over. That's what would make me accept this akamai ****. I'll hit accept when hell freezes over.

[bartharok]

Hell freezing over. That's what would make me accept this akamai ****. I'll hit accept when hell freezes over.

The lowest level of hell is frozen, time to download.

[Chai]

You can get disposable pre-paid visa cards. Kinda work like a debit card, but its not connected to a bank account, it's connected to a number on a receipt, but once that $50 or $150 or whatever you put on it is used, it's empty, and it works in places where you need a credit card.

Yeah, you can also avoid major hassle by making the system as secure as possible. The logic that nothing is ever fully secure so why worry about it just doesnt fly in other aspects of life, so it doesnt fly here as well. Just like you dont leavy your keys in your car parked on the side of the road, and your doors of your house unlocked when youre out and about, you dont leave a gaping security hole in your PC software. People may never be 100% secure, but theres a difference between being mostly secure, -vs- blatently asking to be taken advantage of.

[Knobull]

What would make you accept Akamai Netsession?

Well, I can't really say here exactly, but it would involve a lithe silver haired elf, 1 charge daily, and my darkwood staff of morning. ;)

[redoubt]

You have most of this already, but I'll lend another voice to it.

Make it download only.
Make the EULA show that it is download only.
Make it only load if a download is needed.
Make it turn off once the down load is complete.

[toaftoaf]

i really hope that EVERY one of the computers at turbine is forced to run it. odds say they have a few that do. i have a system that has had it installed with 3d max and corel. but i keep that one offline :D

[Caliban]

Clearly there's two things to take away from this.

1) People will sign anything as long as they get something out of it (even if it's something they've already had for a long time).

2) People are happy to install a program that they don't require or want onto their computer that can update itself without your knowledge or permission to do pretty much anything at all at some point in the future (as long as it's not doing anything bad when they first look into it).

Personally I think the scariest thing is that so many people are pretty much BRAGGING that they do these things xD

Or some people aren't mindlessly paranoid about everything that gets installed on their computer. There are a few legitimate concerns about the Akami netsession, but they are minor at best and are being addressed. There's nothing that warrants the outright hysteria and conspiracy theories that have been floating around.

Personally, I think the scariest thing is that so many people are going to be pretty much BRAGGING that they personally saved us all from the evil corporation with their screaming and flailing about non-existent problems (it's spyware, it's malware, it's a P2P client, it's going to steal your identity and sell it to the Russian Mafia, etc).

[Ron]

Personally, I think the scariest thing is that so many people are going to be pretty much BRAGGING that they personally saved us all from the evil corporation with their screaming and flailing about non-existent problems (it's spyware, it's malware, it's a P2P client, it's going to steal your identity and sell it to the Russian Mafia, etc).

Ironically enough, the first three of your four categories that you meant sarcastically are actually true.

[Ungood]

Or, people have been using computers long enough to know that they are never secure and the only way to be safe is to put nothing of importance on them in the first place.

News Flash, I did not buy a computer and pay for internet to have to do everything that matters in my life manually. The whole **** point of a computer is make sorting and processing my life easier, not to force me to keep all my "important" stuff off it.

[goodspeed]

Or some people aren't mindlessly paranoid about everything that gets installed on their computer. There are a few legitimate concerns about the Akami netsession, but they are minor at best and are being addressed. There's nothing that warrants the outright hysteria and conspiracy theories that have been floating around.

Personally, I think the scariest thing is that so many people are going to be pretty much BRAGGING that they personally saved us all from the evil corporation with their screaming and flailing about non-existent problems (it's spyware, it's malware, it's a P2P client, it's going to steal your identity and sell it to the Russian Mafia, etc).

Jeez why not just run over that group of people walking for cancer after ur finished throwing rocks at the protesters outside the white house.

[Caliban]

Ironically enough, the first three of your four categories that you meant sarcastically are actually true.

They actually aren't (as has been shown by others more technically savvy than I), but thank you for illustrating my point for me. :)

[PermaBanned]

News Flash, I did not buy a computer and pay for internet to have to do everything that matters in my life manually. The whole **** point of a computer is make sorting and processing my life easier, not to force me to keep all my "important" stuff off it.

Interesting. That's exactly what I bought mine for: nothing important.

I use it for email, games, acquisition of movies & music, saving my lazy self some trips to the library, looking up interesting things on a whim... Things of that nature are exactly why I bought and use a personal computer. I have a reloadable Pre-paid CC for any financial transactions that must be done online.

For my real finances: grocery shopping, banking, bill paying, taxes etc; I physically go to the place of business - and pay cash when possible.

[Nocker]

As VIP I want DDO Content and perks NOT AKAMI or any other 3rd party ****, stop or ima Cancel VIP. STOP or else!

[Banaticus]

Or, people have been using computers long enough to know that they are never secure and the only way to be safe is to put nothing of importance on them in the first place.
A few years ago, my primary transportation was a bicycle. I put about 30 miles (give or take 10) on each day and lost quite a bit of weight, but I digress. I rode it to a movie theater one day and while I was locking it up some homeless-looking guys who were sitting against the wall nearby asked me why I bothered with a lock. "I don't ever use those," one guy said, "Because I want to feel free, I don't to feel shackled." I just looked him, one eyebrow raised, "That's why I use a lock, so I can feel free. I can go inside and watch the movie without worrying that someone outside is riding my bike away."

Due diligence, man. You've got to put in the basic minimum, like buying a good u-bolt lock for a bicycle, in order to truly be able to feel free. Now, could someone come along with super bolt cutters or a portable cutoff wheel or something? Sure. That's really unlikely to happen, though, compared to one of the homeless guys in the downtown area riding off on your bicycle.

[Ron]

They actually aren't (as has been shown by others more technically savvy than I), but thank you for illustrating my point for me. :)

You know, I was going to respond to this, but it's just not worth it. We aren't going to convince each other. I did what I could.

You go ahead and let NetSession run on your computer. I'm not letting it anywhere near mine. And we'll leave it at that.

[Vanquishedfo]

You know, I was going to respond to this, but it's just not worth it. We aren't going to convince each other. I did what I could.

You go ahead and let NetSession run on your computer. I'm not letting it anywhere near mine. And we'll leave it at that.

I concur. Id been away from DDO for awhile and thankfully already had it uninstalled. there is absolutely nothing on earth that will force me to put it on my pc again as long as any version of this software is used.

Turbine has failed the city of storm reach, and now we need our own arrow to put them in their place.

[bartharok]

There is nothing as foolish as a man thinking himself wise. Except possibly a lot of them.

[Vanquishedfo]

There is nothing as foolish as a man thinking himself wise. Except possibly a lot of them.

Hey man insulting Turbine on the forums is against the rules you know that;)

[Caliban]

There is nothing as foolish as a man thinking himself wise. Except possibly a lot of them.

I don't know, I think people running around screaming the sky is falling gives the "wise guys" a run for their money in the foolishness department.

[enochiancub]

Hey man insulting Turbine on the forums is against the rules you know that;)

Maybe some day they'll start enforcing that rule better.

[Ungood]

Interesting. That's exactly what I bought mine for: nothing important.

I use it for email, games, acquisition of movies & music, saving my lazy self some trips to the library, looking up interesting things on a whim... Things of that nature are exactly why I bought and use a personal computer. I have a reloadable Pre-paid CC for any financial transactions that must be done online.

For my real finances: grocery shopping, banking, bill paying, taxes etc; I physically go to the place of business - and pay cash when possible.

How sad, that there is so much you can do to make your life easier with your computer, and you're too scared stupid to use it, might be a product of your willingness to just dump any old program into your computer and click agreements without reading them.

The irony of this does not escape me, when I see who is really the paranoid ones in this discussion.

[NaturalHazard]

If no one complained there would be no changes, some went over the top some did not but anyone who voices complaint or concerns gets insulted left right and center. Sorry some people don't like to just roll over and take it, be thankful for people like this otherwise your life would be much worse.

[NaturalHazard]

People who voice their complaints are more useful than those who just up and leave at least it gives the company some inkling as to why, thought it might hurt some peoples feelings and lead to many panties being in a bunch.