Old Epic items revisited

[InTheory]

OK so there are several old epic items that still require the seal, the shard, the scroll and the base item. I know the developers are interested in phasing out this old system. So in the spirit of answering the questions never asked by the developers.


Which old epics should be improved, and how would you improve them?
Which old epics are fine/should be left as is?


I want to add that I don't think that the current grind is worth it for the majority of these old epics, it would be nice if they dropped in quest but BtA on acquire so that the lazy gamers would still have to grind them out - although perhaps not as tediously. THE ONE EXCEPTION should be eSoS since this is so ridiculously OP. I think the scroll/shard/seal + base item should still be required for the eSoS. Perhaps put it in it's own category as a Legend Greatsword rather then an Epic Greatsword.


Here are some changes with the Phiarlan Epics that I think would make some of the items more desirable, I guess the reader would have to determine if I succeeded or failed here:


Epic Antique Great Axe: Kept this one the same, I feel its perfect just as it is
Epic +6 Greataxe (2[1d20] base damage): Force Burst, Metalline, Righteous, Colorless augment slot, Red Augment slot


Epic Big Top: I changed UMD to exceptional UMD and added a colorless augment slot
Epic Helm: Otto's Irresistible dance (5) day, Exceptional Use magic device +5, colorless augment, green augment


Epic Brawn's Spirits: I kept this one mostly the same with a slight raise in Incite for the new version
Epic Trinket: Rage, Intimidate +20, Curse of foolishness, Curse of dullness, Incite 15%, Insightful Constitution +2, Green Augment


Epic Brimstone Verge: Added more combustion and lore
Epic Wand: Delayed Blast fireball (instant), Combustion +100, Evocation Focus II, Wand maximizing, Major fire lore


Epic Full Plate of the Ringleader: I changed DR which scales horribly to PRR and added a colorless augment and 1 AB
Epic +6 Heavy Armor (AB:27, MDB: 1, SF:35%): Persuasion, PRR +15 (does not stack with augments), Radiance Guard, Colorless augment, Blue augment


Epic Garos' Malice: Exchanged Greater Incineration for Metalline, and exchanged "Blinding embers" for Radiance....added more base damage.
Epic +6 Shortsword (3[1D6] base damage): Metalline, Flaming Burst, Radiance, Vorpal, Colorless Augment, Red augment


Epic Grim's Bracelet: Added Ram's Might Clicky
Epic Necklace: Ram's Might (2) day (CL:5), Strength +7, Dodge 6%, Green Augment slot


Epic Illusionist Garb: Changed Epic will saves to Epic saves and increased its bonus.
Epic Robe: Prismatic Spray (5) day, Intelligence +7, Epic saves +5, Illusion Focus II, Blue Augment


Epic Kron'zek's Cruelty: Increased base damage and added an additional augment
Epic +6 Scimitar (3[1D6] base damage): Shocking Burst, Maiming, Keen I, Lightening strike, Improved destruction, Red augment, Orange Augment


Epic Mask of Comedy: Increased number of good hope casts, Cha, Devotion, and potency...added a colorless augment slot
Epic Helm: Good Hope (5) day, Charisma 7, Devotion +100, Potency +60, Major Healing lore, Colorless augment, Yellow augment


Epic Mask of Tragedy: Crushing despair replaced with NEB to be more useful, same other bonus's as Mask of Comedy
Epic Helm: Negative Energy Burst (5) day (CL:15), Wisdom +7, Nullification 100, Potency +60, Major Void Lore, Colorless augment, Yellow augment


Epic Noxious Fang: The DC on the scorpion poison needs to be raised to 34 minimum if this thing is going work on epic. Changed Epic fortitude saves to Epic saves and increased the bonus. Also raised the Base Damage
Epic Throwing Dagger (3d4 +9 base damage): Poison, Returning, Epic saves +5, Large scorpion poison, Disintegration, Red Augment


Epic Phiarlan Mirror Cloak: Changed Spell Absorption 5 to Light absorption %, changed colorless to green augment.
Epic Cloak: Enhanced hide +5, Enhanced Move Silently +5, Spell Resistance +30, Greater Light Resistance +30, Light absorption 15%, Blurry, Green augment


Epic Phiarlan Spy Dagger: Slightly Increased base damage, added Enhanced sneak attack
Epic +6 Dagger (3[1d4] base damage): Enhanced sneak attack +6, Acid Burst, Improved Deception, Dusk, Enfeebling, Improved Paralyzing, Red Augment


Epic Ring of Elemental Essence: Changed inherent resist to absorption and increased elemental spell power
Epic Ring: Combustion +100, Glaciation +100, Magnetism +100, Corrosion +100, Fire Absorption 5%, Cold absorption 5%, Electrical absorption 5%, Acid absorption 5%, Green augment


Epic Roderic's Wand: Changed the mechanics a bit....just to make it a little better
Epic Wand: Level 9 Summon Monster (10), (casters choice), Augment Summoning


Epic Shimmering Pendant: dropped "Suggestion" for Exceptional Cha Skills
Epic Necklace: Charisma +7, Exceptional Charisma skills +5, Diplomacy +20, Perform +20, Green Augment


Epic Utility Vest: Left mostly the same, I only raised Dex to +7
Epic +6 Light Armor (AB:13, MDB:16, SF:10%): Disable Device +20, Open Lock +20, Dexterity +7, Greater Nimbleness, Insightful Intelligence +2, Blue Augment

[PrimalConcreteSledge]

OK so there are several old epic items that still require the seal, the shard, and the base item. I know the developers are interested in phasing out this old system. So in the spirit of answering the question never asked by the developers.

How would you fix this old system to phase it out and enact a new system?
Which old epics should be improved, and how would you improve them?
Which old epics are fine/should be left as they are just fitted into the normal/hard/elite epic system?

So my idea for fixing the old system and phasing in the new system would be simple. Old epics already made using seal/shard/base item will be eligible for conversion into the new EE weapons. Put it into a stone of change with 200 siberys dragonshards to convert it

Here are some examples with the Phiarlan Epics, I tried to make some of the epics that I don't see so often more desirable I guess the reader would have to determine if I succeeded or failed here:

Epic Antique Great Axe - Kept this one mostly the same - I feel its perfect just as it is
Normal - +6 Greataxe (2[1D20] base damage), Force Burst, Metalline, Righteous
Hard - +6 Greataxe (2[1D20] base damage), Force Burst, Metalline, Righteous, Colorless augment slot
Elite - +6 Greataxe (2[1d20] base damage), Force Burst, Metalline, Righteous, Colorless augment slot, Red Augment slot

Great item, agree with no changes here.

Epic Big Top - Helm - I changed UMD to exceptional UMD and added a colorless augment slot
Normal - Otto's Irresistible dance (3) day, Exceptional Use magic device +3
Hard - Otto's Irresistible dance (3) day, Exceptional Use magic device +4, colorless augment
Elite - Otto's Irresistible dance (5) day, Exceptional Use magic device +5, colorless augment, green augment

Nice change, could see some use at end game while still not overpowered.

Epic Brawn's Spirits - Trinket - I kept this one mostly the same with a slight raise in Incite for Elite version
Normal - Rage, Intimidate +15, Curse of foolishness, Curse of dullness, Incite 10%, Insightful Con 2
Hard - Rage, Intimidate +20, Curse of foolishness, Curse of dullness, Incite 10% Insightful Con 2, Colorless augment
Elite - Rage, Intimidate +20, Curse of foolishness, Curse of dullness, Incite 15%, Insightful Con 2, Green Augment

This needs a boost.

Epic Brimstone Verge - Wand - added more combustion and lore
Normal - Delayed blast fireball (instant), Combustion +85, Evocation Focus I, Wand maximizing, Fire lore
Hard - Delayed Blast fireball (instant) , Combustion +90, Evocation Focus II, Wand maximizing, Greater fire lore
Elite - Delayed Blast fireball (instant), Combustion +100, Evocation Focus II, Wand maximizing, Major fire lore

Seams like ok changes.

Epic Full Plate of the Ringleader - Heavy Armor - I changed DR which scales horribly to PRR and added a colorless augment and 1 AB
Normal - +6 Heavy Armor (AB:26, MDB: 1, SF:35%) Persuasion, PRR +10, Radiance Guard
Hard - +6 Heavy Armor (AB:27, MDB: 1, SF:35%) Persuasion, PRR +10, Radiance Guard, Colorless augment
Elite - +6 Heavy Armor (AB:27, MDB: 1, SF:35%) Persuasion, PRR +15, Radiance Guard, Colorless augment, Blue augment

Prolly a bit op for the level but should be fine if you make prr not stack with the augment bonus.

Epic Garos' Malice - Short Sword - I kept this as it was.....no changes
Normal - +6 Shortsword (2.5[1D6] base damage) Flaming Burst, Blinding embers, Vorpal, Greater Incineration
Hard - +6 Shortsword (2.5[1D6] base damage) Flaming Burst, Blinding embers, Vorpal, Greater Incineration, Colorless augment
Elite - +6 Shortsword (2.5[1D6] base damage) Flaming Burst, Blinding Embers, Vorpal, Greater Incineration, Colorless Augment, Red augment

This sword is trash. Add radiance, push something out if you think is needed.

Epic Grim's Bracelet - Necklace - Increased Dodge %
Normal - Strength +7, Dodge 3%
Hard - Strength +7, Dodge 4%, Colorless augment slot
Elite - Strength +7, Dodge 5%, Green Augment slot

Dodge was doubled so now it has 6%. Nobody uses it anyway... Something unique should be added here like a giant knockback on hit or something.

Epic Illusionist Garb - Robe - Changed Epic will saves to Epic saves and increased its bonus.
Normal - Prismatic Spray (5) day, Intelligence +7, Epic saves + 3, Illusion Focus I,
Hard - Prismatic Spray (5) day, Intelligence +7, Epic saves +4, Illusion Focus II, Colorless Augment
Elite - Prismatic Spray (5) day, Intelligence +7, Epic saves +5, Illusion Focus II, Blue Augment

Nice change.

Epic Kron'zek's Cruelty - Scimitar - Increased base damage and added an additional augment
Normal - +6 Scimitar (2.5[1D6] base damage) Shocking Burst, Maiming, Keen I, Lightening strike, Improved destruction
Hard - +6 Scimitar (2.5[1D6] base damage) Shocking Burst, Maiming, Keen I, Lightening strike, Improved destruction, Red augment
Elite - +6 Scimitar (3[1D6] base damage) Shocking Burst, Maiming, Keen I, Lightening strike, Improved destruction, Red augment, Orange Augment

Nice change.

Epic Mask of Comedy - Helm - Increased number of good hope casts, Cha, Devotion, and potency...added a colorless augment slot
Normal - Good Hope (3) day, Charisma 6, Devotion +90, Potency +55, Greater Healing lore
Hard - Good Hope (3) day, Charisma 7, Devotion +95, Potency +60, Greater Healing lore, Colorless augment
Elite - Good Hope (5) day, Charisma 7, Devotion +100, Potency +60, Major Healing lore, Colorless augment, Yellow augment

This item is used atm at endgame just for the clickie. 15min of good hope between shrines seams good enough for me... No need for half an hour. Other changes are ok, maby a bit op for the level but generally not needed. Frankly there is rly no need to make this item more desirable than it already is.

Epic Mask of Tragedy - Helm - Crushing despair replaced with NEB due to no-saves, same other bonus's as Mask of Comedy
Normal - Negative Energy Burst (3) day (CL:15), Wisdom +6, Nullification 90, Potency +55, Greater Void Lore
Hard - Negative Energy Burst (3) day (CL:15), Wisdom +7, Nullification 95, Potency +60, Greater Void Lore, Colorless augment
Elite - Negative Energy Burst (5) day (CL:15), Wisdom +7, Nullification 100, Potency +60, Major Void Lore, Colorless augment, Yellow augment

Nice change.

Epic Noxious Fang - Throwing Dagger - The DC on the scorpion poison needs to be raised to 35 minimum if this thing is going work on epic
Normal - +9 Enhancement bonus, Poison, Returning, Epic saves +3, Large scorpion poison, Disintegration,
Hard - +9 Enhancement bonus, poison, returning, Epic saves +4, Large scorpion poison, Disintegration, Colorless augment
Elite - +9 Enhancement Bonus, Poison, Returning, Epic saves +5, Large scorpion poison, Disintegration, Red Augment

Ok change.

Its late now - I'll finish up the rest of the House P epics tomorrow, if there is any interest in this post.

I'd like to see some improvements in this loot but... You seam to boost some of the items ppl use in end game (like mask of comedy) while keeping the same some of the total trash pp don't use even at level (like garos malice). Also think you gave Grim's bracelet a nerf (dodge was doubled to 6% if i'm not mistaken) :D

[Skavenaps]

Sorry, but i need to disagree.

Old epic items dont need any rewies. Better and usefull stuff should drop at the new high level epic quests and raids.

[Miow]

Sorry, but i need to disagree.

Old epic items dont need any rewies. Better and usefull stuff should drop at the new high level epic quests and raids.

Well one thing i see would need to be updated is the house K chain that doesn't have slots, just simply add slots. Other than that most items are okay for lvl 20.

[redspecter23]

I agree with minor buffs here and there. This is the sort of thing that should be handled with a few items each update just to keep things fresh and interesting. I really don't think they have the time or resources to go and update tons of items all at once. Even if they did, as the game advances, they could all be obsoleted and you start the process over again. Do one or two items an update and you keep your dev resources to a minimum and don't have to worry about hundreds of manhours negated because of some random systems change or combination of nerfs/fixes that just make all the work pointless.

Something like the Epic Antique Greataxe is a very decent weapon already and isn't something I'd even put in the top 50 for item fixes. I'd focus on ones that are currently nearly completely useless so that you have even more variety in useful items when they get upgraded.

On the Grim's Bracelet, I'd perhaps keep the current 6% dodge, but make it an exceptional bonus, but also raise your dodge cap on armor and tower shields by 6 at the same time. That would get me interested. Swap out the 7 str for a 7str augment in a colorless slot and keep the green slot.

Most of your other proposals seem fine overall. I'm personally against upgrading old items into the N/H/E model, but I understand that others really like this method. I feel that the N and H versions become essentially pointless unless they are designed very well like dragon helms where the majority of the potency is on all versions and it's just slot colors that change.

[InTheory]

I'd like to see some improvements in this loot but... You seam to boost some of the items ppl use in end game (like mask of comedy) while keeping the same some of the total trash pp don't use even at level (like garos malice). Also think you gave Grim's bracelet a nerf (dodge was doubled to 6% if i'm not mistaken) :D

Ty for your observations. I feel that my changes to the Epic Mask of Comedy were necessary since its the polar opposite twin of Epic mask of Tragedy, and Tragedy needed a serious boost to make it more desirable. Also I would like to see them both made actually useful (from say levels 20-24'ish and not just used for their clicky.)

About Grim's bracelet, I was going straight off of the wiki (that still says dodge 3%), I guess the information there is still a bit outdated....thanks for pointing this out I will fix it on my post.

To be honest I don't really know what to do with Garo's Malice, I've never made a TWF and am unsure which class's would be most likely to use this item and am equally unsure how to change it to best suit those that would actually consider using it.......Some idea's from some shortsword TWF's would be appreciated here.

[InTheory]

Ok I've updated the items with some of the suggestions.....what do you think about the Ram's Might clicky on Grim's Bracelet?

All house P epics are now posted.....

[danotmano1998]

How would you fix this old system to phase it out and enact a new system?


Up drop rates on pieces.
Add full list on set # of completions. (10?)

Done.



normal/hard/elite epic system?


This system was abandoned by the dev's.
They aren't going back to it as far as anyone can tell.

[Jasparion]

They are getting rid of the Normal/Hard/Elite versions for loot.

I think they need to add at least 1 Augment slot on all named items, 2 Augment slots on all raid items. Whether or not to boost the ML probably needs an entirely separate debate.

[InTheory]

They are getting rid of the Normal/Hard/Elite versions for loot.

*Facepalm - Figures, I'll edit the post to reflect changes I'd like to see in the epic loot. Without the N/H/E outdates.

[-Avalon-]

Fixing old epic system is easy:

For any adventure pack that is older than X amount of time, remove seals/shards and make it Scroll+Item=Epic Item.

The old Seal+Shard+Scroll+Item system is nice, and worth it, IF the epic item is worth using to begin with. The older epic items are no longer that way (majority of them) so the trouble you go through to get all the pieces to turn something epic, OR you can usually find another named item of same level OR check the AH for random lootgen that is comparable as well... why bust your *** to make an epic?? Simplify the process, you'll see those items get used more often...

[Lanadazia]

Sorry, but i need to disagree.

Old epic items dont need any rewies. Better and usefull stuff should drop at the new high level epic quests and raids.

sorry, but i need to disagree

old epic items still should have some value, since it was and still is some work to get seal, shard and scroll to epify your item!
they should be good twink gear to epic TR. but they're getting outshined but alot of easy-to-get-stuff and random-loot
also i think reviewing the old epic items, and making them more valueable, will make some older packs more prominent again.
i still run the old epic chains and enjoy them. its no bad content, just because the loot isn't on point right now.

more quests to chose from = more fun.
i really don't get the players doing their von3, von5 and wizking daily. it must get boring as hell...

and making the stuff more worth to wear again, will open up more gear-builds. like the purple dragonknight gauntlets are a basic item for each toon that is lvl 20
you dont even need to put any work into that, its basically given for free
other items with lvl 20 are not as powerful (like the gloves of the claw, that were not easy to get back then)
and i think they should balance the loot level-wise.
like they should not put out gear with the same level, that is alot more powerful!

[Saekee]

I have seen Fran_Watson post good suggestions on old epic gear as well.

[Alternative]

The ml20 items are also needed and as such many of the old epics work fine. One thing that has to be done is increase of the drop rates and/or make them BTA so that middle of the road eTR twink gear doesn't take months to acquire.