Epic viability of max dex

[Linvak]

I don't think anything can match the utility with such raw power of a dex based Halfling rogue. It makes heroics/boss fights/probably epic n/h stupidly easy. I'm a returning player and haven't seen much of the new epic content/system and I'm curious if it transfers over. Obviously the high int for assassinates and decent repeater usage works just fine. But does the raw dmg coming out of the dex base style going to be enough to be useful or do people want more utility?

[Saekee]

I don't think anything can match the utility with such raw power of a dex based Halfling rogue. It makes heroics/boss fights/probably epic n/h stupidly easy. I'm a returning player and haven't seen much of the new epic content/system and I'm curious if it transfers over. Obviously the high int for assassinates and decent repeater usage works just fine. But does the raw dmg coming out of the dex base style going to be enough to be useful or do people want more utility?

Check out this (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436195-Dex-dps) recent thread: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436195-Dex-dps

[Linvak]

Check out this (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436195-Dex-dps) recent thread: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436195-Dex-dps

I guess a better question is --

is there any reason to be a pure lvl 20 rogue with Max dex as opposed to maxing int?


As far as str vs dex, for a rogue, there's no reason to have str anymore.

[Saekee]

I guess a better question is --

is there any reason to be a pure lvl 20 rogue with Max dex as opposed to maxing int?


As far as str vs dex, for a rogue, there's no reason to have str anymore.

Max INT is for the assassinate DC--if you plan to go max dex, than I assume that is for evasion and dex-to-damage? You can get a high evasion with an INT build. If it is purely for the dps dex to damage, you will fall far short of what the STR rogue can do as per that thread (i.e. overwhelming critical, various STR boosts, etc). You will need INT for traps and dex for evasion when running through them to the control box, hence why those builds use INT as main stat and Dex as secondary. DEx helps with stealth also and can be great fun for solo play.

If you wish to go pure dex, then you might as well consider ranger and monk splashes, as they also gain dex-to-damage abilities and will beef up squishy rogueness.

[Shadow_Jumper]

I went INT based on my halfling rogue, with a stat layout of INT/DEX/CON, and have never had a DPS problem. With the new updates to halfling DPS, I can hit pretty much the same numbers as STR based rogues, using two Agonys with the crit profile they offer with seeker and improved weapon focus, I can hit numbers ranging in the 500-700 range on pinned mobs. While not quite the high number that LDs, and other builds hit, I was also able to get around 40% double strike, and with permanent haste and other speed boosts, it's quite the DPS machine.

And about that 'squishy rougeness'. He hits 738 HP at lvl 28, with permanent blur, incorporeality, and 28% dodge. He does fine, and I even have a GS HA weapon, which I'm used to toggling on whenever I heal myself, so scrolls hit for 362. This pretty much compensates for the lowered HP die that rogues get.

[Saekee]

I went INT based on my halfling rogue, with a stat layout of INT/DEX/CON, and have never had a DPS problem. With the new updates to halfling DPS, I can hit pretty much the same numbers as STR based rogues, using two Agonys with the crit profile they offer with seeker and improved weapon focus, I can hit numbers ranging in the 500-700 range on pinned mobs. While not quite the high number that LDs, and other builds hit, I was also able to get around 40% double strike, and with permanent haste and other speed boosts, it's quite the DPS machine.

And about that 'squishy rougeness'. He hits 738 HP at lvl 28, with permanent blur, incorporeality, and 28% dodge. He does fine, and I even have a GS HA weapon, which I'm used to toggling on whenever I heal myself, so scrolls hit for 362. This pretty much compensates for the lowered HP die that rogues get.

Agreed, but you are going INT primarily, then DEX, which I agree is the way to go. The OP is suggesting DEX as the primary.

[Linvak]

Ya, any rogue is gonna be doing insane dmg, I was just wondering if there was a point in maxing dex with int as a 2nd. If anyone was doing it and making it work/compete with int basers.

And I just feel now, if you're pure rogue, str just isn't worth the trouble. I feel like you'd be giving up to much of your utility but I'll have to look deeper into the build out of curiosity, but still not a fan of the clicky parade str based classes require.

I really want to stay full rogue, so leaning towards the int based for obvious reasons.

[CThruTheEgo]

I was just wondering if there was a point in maxing dex with int as a 2nd.

It depends on what content you intend to run. If you're not maxing int, then assassinate will be very limited in EE content. And if you're going for max dps, then just go str based and do better than a dex build.

If you only want to run EH/EN, then you can get away with maxing dex and still have an effective assassinate with int as secondary, but then it won't matter anyway since EH/EN is going to be stomped by just about anything.

The difference between an int based build and a dex based build is only about 7 points of damage. But the int build is going to end up with around 10 more assassinate DC, which is the difference between a useful and useless assassinate.

Have a look at Hassan's Assassin in my sig of you're looking for build ideas.

[unbongwah]

As far as str vs dex, for a rogue, there's no reason to have str anymore.
A STR-based rogue can pick up Overwhelming Crit; feats are tight but doable (TWF x3, Power Atk, CL/GC/IC/OC). A DEX-based rogue will pick up Imp Sneak Atk (+3d6) instead.

Pure rogues don't have access to a lot of the STR buffs of other classes (e.g., Div Might, Ram's Might, Power Surge); but they can still guzzle Rage pots (+2 STR) while leveling and use Primal Scream in epics (+5 STR). They can also take barb PL and use Madstone Boots and/or Titan's Grip for temp STR buffs. Base DEX 16 + 5 tome qualifies you for ISA even on a STR rogue w/OC, so there's no reason for a TRed vet not to plan on it. Plus ofc a STR rogue is not restricted to Finesseable weapons like a DEX rogue is (tho in the long run you'll likely build for daggers and/or kukris so it doesn't matter that much). Bottom line: a DEX rogue is "good enough" for, say, a first-lifer without access to all those extra goodies; but STR-based still wins out on raw DPS in the long run for any sufficiently well-geared rogue.

So for me the real question on an Assassin is are you focusing on raw DPS or instakills? That determines whether you're maxing STR or INT.

[Linvak]

It depends on what content you intend to run. If you're not maxing int, then assassinate will be very limited in EE content. And if you're going for max dps, then just go str based and do better than a dex build.

If you only want to run EH/EN, then you can get away with maxing dex and still have an effective assassinate with int as secondary, but then it won't matter anyway since EH/EN is going to be stomped by just about anything.

The difference between an int based build and a dex based build is only about 7 points of damage. But the int build is going to end up with around 10 more assassinate DC, which is the difference between a useful and useless assassinate.

Have a look at Hassan's Assassin in my sig of you're looking for build ideas.

Ya. I figured this much out. It's actually sad to me that very few forms are viable for EE. No offense to your build, but they're all the same. It's not hard to max int and get a 65+ assassinate. The only differences are race preference and what gear u get ur hands on. It's just a turn off tbh.

[Linvak]

A STR-based rogue can pick up Overwhelming Crit; feats are tight but doable (TWF x3, Power Atk, CL/GC/IC/OC). A DEX-based rogue will pick up Imp Sneak Atk (+3d6) instead.

Pure rogues don't have access to a lot of the STR buffs of other classes (e.g., Div Might, Ram's Might, Power Surge); but they can still guzzle Rage pots (+2 STR) while leveling and use Primal Scream in epics (+5 STR). They can also take barb PL and use Madstone Boots and/or Titan's Grip for temp STR buffs. Base DEX 16 + 5 tome qualifies you for ISA even on a STR rogue w/OC, so there's no reason for a TRed vet not to plan on it. Plus ofc a STR rogue is not restricted to Finesseable weapons like a DEX rogue is (tho in the long run you'll likely build for daggers and/or kukris so it doesn't matter that much). Bottom line: a DEX rogue is "good enough" for, say, a first-lifer without access to all those extra goodies; but STR-based still wins out on raw DPS in the long run for any sufficiently well-geared rogue.

So for me the real question on an Assassin is are you focusing on raw DPS or instakills? That determines whether you're maxing STR or INT.

Was basically trying to figure out the point of maxing dex, which there is none. Str builds are nice now, but I think still not that great on a pure 20 rogue. So basically max int if pure, and if u want the raw dmg, throw in some monk/fighter and go str.

[Linvak]

Basically after being away for 1.5 years I fell into the dex to dmg noob trap. : p

[CThruTheEgo]

Ya. I figured this much out. It's actually sad to me that very few forms are viable for EE. No offense to your build, but they're all the same. It's not hard to max int and get a 65+ assassinate. The only differences are race preference and what gear u get ur hands on. It's just a turn off tbh.

That's just the nature of a DC focused build and is true for any class. You're building to maximize one capability while trying to fit in as much else as you can. But you will find minor differences between builds.

What is unique about my build is that it has a reliable EE assassinate DC, improvd sneak attack, and epic toughness. Each of those relies on 3 different stats: int, dex, and con respectively. The combination makes for a very deadly (through both instakills and dps) and very survivable assassin. That combination is difficult to pull off on a drow or halfling. Drow will lose both survivability and burst dps but can get a couple more DC. Halfling can get more sneak attack but lose out on some enhancements by spending more in the racial tree and will also likely lose some survivability and DCs. Human offers the best balance between survivability, dps, and instakill ability imo.

If you're looking for greater build variety or flexibility, I probably wouldn't build for a DC based ability.

[Linvak]

That's just the nature of a DC focused build and is true for any class. You're building to maximize one capability while trying to fit in as much else as you can. But you will find minor differences between builds.

What is unique about my build is that it has a reliable EE assassinate DC, improvd sneak attack, and epic toughness. Each of those relies on 3 different stats: int, dex, and con respectively. The combination makes for a very deadly (through both instakills and dps) and very survivable assassin. That combination is difficult to pull off on a drow or halfling. Drow will lose both survivability and burst dps but can get a couple more DC. Halfling can get more sneak attack but lose out on some enhancements by spending more in the racial tree and will also likely lose some survivability and DCs. Human offers the best balance between survivability, dps, and instakill ability imo.

If you're looking for greater build variety or flexibility, I probably wouldn't build for a DC based ability.

Ya, that's all I ment. Wasn't trying to offend u or anything. I just miss the days when there wasn't an assassinate, and few took the chance on rogues : p

Can't deny the usefulness and effectiveness of the int based rogue, probably one of the best builds in ddo imo. But I feel the game itself has limited most variation in builds as a whole.

[CThruTheEgo]

Wasn't trying to offend u or anything.

No offense taken. I was just clarifying the nature of the situation, which it sounds like we agree upon.


I feel the game itself has limited most variation in builds as a whole.

For DC based builds I think this is true, but I think there is actually greater diversity for other types of builds. And to be honest, I think maybe that is how it should be. Given the power of DC abilities, it makes sense that they should require such a great investment that you end up with "cookie-cutter" builds to utilize them. I don't know though. I try not to think so much about those aspects of the game and just accept the limitations as they are. It is what it is.