Thunder-Forged Weapons - a formal introduction

[danotmano1998]

Why do the weapons automatically get dragon bane attributes added to them? If you want these to be weapons people will want to craft a lot of, then let us select the bane type we want added to the weapon. Then people will want to make a weapon for dragons, another for undead, another for constructs, another for elementals, etc. This would greatly extend the shelf life of the content, at least for anyone who melees.

My guess would be "flavor", so I can understand their choice.
But your suggestion is an excellent one, IMO.

[Vellrad]

Why do the weapons automatically get dragon bane attributes added to them? If you want these to be weapons people will want to craft a lot of, then let us select the bane type we want added to the weapon. Then people will want to make a weapon for dragons, another for undead, another for constructs, another for elementals, etc. This would greatly extend the shelf life of the content, at least for anyone who melees.

Dragon bane is flavor addition, associated with flavor raid.
Its noticeable only in few places in game, so weapons can be ballanced in power as bane weren't there.
Think of it as GS bypassing /evil damage reduction- good would be much better for sure, DR bypass is there after all, but its so meaningless its not important to balancing weapon effects.

[Kamode_Corebasher]

You're just not getting it Satyriasys (and specifically DrOctothorpe), we players don't want to get and complete our items faster. Read that again. Read that again. We want a reason to prolong our time spent playing DDO. We want to add back an endgame that's worth playing within for a prolonged period of time--an endgame that is active and thriving and has lots of PUGs. DrOctothorpe, you're implementing a loot system which will do the opposite (or as close to opposite as can be). And I'm angry now...angry that you have the opportunity to add a big piece of the game back to a good standard and you're not taking it.

The TR system revamp is awesome, but it can only hold my attention for so long.
The new content is awesome, but can only hold my attention for so long.
The build process is awesome, but can only hold my attention for so long.
The lack of an endgame is horrible, and I want it fixed...and it's soooooo close to being fixed...but its longevity really hinges on the (Your) loot implementation and incentives.

Please don't waste this newly developed content DrOctothorpe...it will only hold our attention for months if you don't implement good loot incentives.
(And how did I miss this posting!...whats wrong with the dev tracker...catching up on this thread now as I'm sure I've already reiterated conversations already had)
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436424-Thunder-Forged-Weapons-a-formal-introduction?p=5258883#post5258883



Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
Why not just delete the Epic Elite difficulty then?
You know that, regardless of player skill, EH always offers more loot drops per hour than EE. We all know that too. Any group capable of completing EE can do EH in less than half the time, unless the limiting factor on speedrunning a quest is covering distance.
And finally, you know that the vast majority of the playerbase capable of completing content on EE is focused on optimization, meaning that running EH twice will be done in preference to running EE once.
My suggestion (same combat stats on all difficulties, lower ML on EE than EH and lower on EH than EN) was generally well received, will create an incentive to run EE that caters to the majority of people capable of doing so, and will address any concerns you have about increasing maximum character power too high.

Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys
He just said they will be adjusting the rates to make higher difficulties worth it. If the drop rate for a rare item on EE were twice as much as EH would that not be worth it? With the level cap increasing to 30 running EE is going to be much faster than currently as our power increases.

Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
we are constantly reviewing the incentives for running different difficulties, and we’ll adjust our approach as needed.

[Grizzt14]

Hi everyone. Thank you again for your feedback. I can’t repeat enough how valuable it is to us as Update 21 moves toward release. I wanted to take a moment to address some of the topics that have come up in this and the other U21 Treasure Lamannia threads.

Scaling Treasure (Normal/Hard/Elite differences)
For Update 21, items will not be different based on the difficulty of the content run. You can consider this to be the default status for this year’s coming releases, but we are constantly reviewing the incentives for running different difficulties, and we’ll adjust our approach as needed. The difficulty incentives in U21 content rely on drop rates, and we are attempting to scale those so there is a real, worthwhile difference.

Extra Commendations of Valor in Thunderholme
Speaking of which, we have put extra Commendations of Valor in a) chests in the Temple of the Deathwyrm raid, in amounts that scale to difficulty, and b) chests in the Thunderholme adventure area.

DC’s
The goal for DC’s on these craftable raid items is not that they be underpowered! We’re listening and we’re looking hard at all the relevant numbers.

Critical Profiles
As some of you may have noticed, we’ve been shifting Critical Range and Multiplier bonuses away from equipment and into Enhancements and Epic Destinies. It’s our view, for a variety of reasons (some of which are “under the hood”), that these critical stats are “tapped out.” That said, we think we grok the appeal underlying altered critical profiles (damage spikes, synergies, creative build strategies), and part of our goal for Level 28 and above is to find new avenues to get that kind of goodness in - but from new or different sources.


Thanks again,
Dr#

Scaling Treasure: Like others have said, there needs to be realistic and noticeable improvements in drop rates in higher difficulties compared to the past. If loot isn't going to be difficulty based anymore, we need to be properly rewarded for choosing to engage in Hard/Elite difficulties. I'd actually personally like to see the various drop rate numbers actually published for the different difficulties.

Extra Comms: Good change overall. Don't know firsthand drop rates, but I like the change. I'd much prefer comms never drop in quest finish rewards and always in the end chest.

DCs: This needs to be fixed in one of two ways, we either need significantly higher DCs so these effects reliably proc, or to drop the DCs entirely and simply have a proc rate these effects will happen with no save.

Critical Profiles: Not a fan of some of these moving away from items, especially since their is a lack of other ways to get these bonuses it seems now with loot. These future sources, whatever they may be need to be well designed from top to bottom if DDO is moving away from modified crit threat/multiplier weapons in the future.

[Hathorian]

One other comment...it would be awesome if there were additional options available for the tiers. My suggestions are Arcane Augmentation (which is currently not on many items) and Arcane Alacrity (no items currently have this!!). Actually...since arcanes get almost nothing for base tiers 1 and 2 would it be possible to add one of these (arcane aug?) to the tier 2 or 3 base item?

For melees it would be nice to also have more options.....

[Satyriasys]

You're just not getting it Satyriasys (and specifically DrOctothorpe), we players don't want to get and complete our items faster. Read that again. Read that again. We want a reason to prolong our time spent playing DDO. We want to add back an endgame that's worth playing within for a prolonged period of time--an endgame that is active and thriving and has lots of PUGs. DrOctothorpe, you're implementing a loot system which will do the opposite (or as close to opposite as can be). And I'm angry now...angry that you have the opportunity to add a big piece of the game back to a good standard and you're not taking it.

The TR system revamp is awesome, but it can only hold my attention for so long.
The new content is awesome, but can only hold my attention for so long.
The build process is awesome, but can only hold my attention for so long.
The lack of an endgame is horrible, and I want it fixed...and it's soooooo close to being fixed...but its longevity really hinges on the (Your) loot implementation and incentives.

Please don't waste this newly developed content DrOctothorpe...it will only hold our attention for months if you don't implement good loot incentives.
(And how did I miss this posting!...whats wrong with the dev tracker...catching up on this thread now as I'm sure I've already reiterated conversations already had)
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436424-Thunder-Forged-Weapons-a-formal-introduction?p=5258883#post5258883

So you don't want higher drop rates on EE because it will diminish the lifespan of the raid? Would you rather these weapons cost 10,000 ingots and you get 1 per raid? That would keep people raiding for ages by your logic.

But I am guessing you would like similar drop rates on all difficulties with exclusive items only dropping on EE? (no that can't be what you're asking either since you mention the pug scene)

Not sure what you're asking for honestly. The proposed system is offering named item drops and ingredients to craft customizable weapons. What else can you do to prolong the life of a raid other than increase the cost of the craftables and nerf the drop rates? You mention "good loot incentives." maybe be more specific?

[SisAmethyst]

You're just not getting it Satyriasys (and specifically DrOctothorpe), we players don't want to get and complete our items faster. Read that again. Read that again. We want a reason to prolong our time spent playing DDO. We want to add back an endgame that's worth playing within for a prolonged period of time--an endgame that is active and thriving and has lots of PUGs. DrOctothorpe, you're implementing a loot system which will do the opposite (or as close to opposite as can be). And I'm angry now...angry that you have the opportunity to add a big piece of the game back to a good standard and you're not taking it.

The TR system revamp is awesome, but it can only hold my attention for so long.
The new content is awesome, but can only hold my attention for so long.
The build process is awesome, but can only hold my attention for so long.
The lack of an endgame is horrible, and I want it fixed...and it's soooooo close to being fixed...but its longevity really hinges on the (Your) loot implementation and incentives.

Please don't waste this newly developed content DrOctothorpe...it will only hold our attention for months if you don't implement good loot incentives.
(And how did I miss this posting!...whats wrong with the dev tracker...catching up on this thread now as I'm sure I've already reiterated conversations already had)
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436424-Thunder-Forged-Weapons-a-formal-introduction?p=5258883#post5258883

I am sitting a bit between the chairs. I on one side like the idea that with enough investment of effort (either time or difficulty) I am able to craft or get the same loot as everybody else. On the other side I like the incentive to run higher difficulties due to better loot.

However I will give you a counter argument to your position. Let's assume there are X number of power gamers that are capable to run EE. With your position they would be the ones that are able to get the nice shinies, while maybe X*1000 number of players will not. Further concluding from you, a player sooner or later I will be satisfied and feed up and will leave.

In other words, as soon as the power gamer that run the EE has his shinies this game isn't rewarding any more and eventually leave. On the other side, the other X*1000 number of players may as well get bored, especially knowing that they will never be able to get the same shiny. From a game perspective I can not just look at the X power gamers, but also have to take into account that the other X*1000 number of players as well are paying customers and the best incentive to keep them is ... you already know the answer, yes, give them the possibility to get the same shiny if they just work longer for it.

Resume, as soon as the player who run the content has his item, the only other thing that keep this player is more content / action. So while I not mind much the difference between N/H/E loot I think it is for the better of the game as a whole that this system is gone! But I agree with others that the time / reward balance currently favour EH, while it should favour EE which just mean the drop rate on EE should be much higher as they are now.

[Cyr]

However I will give you a counter argument to your position. Let's assume there are X number of power gamers that are capable to run EE. With your position they would be the ones that are able to get the nice shinies, while maybe X*1000 number of players will not. Further concluding from you, a player sooner or later I will be satisfied and feed up and will leave.

In other words, as soon as the power gamer that run the EE has his shinies this game isn't rewarding any more and eventually leave. On the other side, the other X*1000 number of players may as well get bored, especially knowing that they will never be able to get the same shiny.

This is fundamentally flawed logic.

Those power gamers eventually get their loot and can then trade their next pull to others. There is NO ONE IN DDO who is truly incapable of running EE, even if all they do is go afk at the beginning (hint if EE can be soloed by some there are pure piker spots available at times). Eventually those players get better and better with better loot and more skill and they can contribute even more. More time to get it done (in other words EE) means longer time to burn through content.

[Vargouille]

A problem with crit boosts in enhancements and destinies is that a lot of them don't work.
My monk uses mainly unarmed or shuriken, and none of the crit bonus stuff works with either: Kensai Keen Edge, Ninja Spy capstone, Fury of the Wild Adrenaline, Halfling Master Thrower.

We recently found a pervasive issue that broadly affected Thrown Weapons, preventing some abilities from working with them, which we've found and fixed. This might coincidentally fix a number of other problems with thrown weapons with Update 21.

We'd have to look into it in more detail for some of the other issues.

If there are abilities that generally don't work at all or don't work in specific instances, do please feel free to keep bugging them to make sure we properly verify and track these issues.

http://ddobugs.turbine.com/ics/support/ticketnewwizard.asp?style=classic&deptID=24037

[Cyr]

We recently found a pervasive issue that broadly affected Thrown Weapons, preventing some abilities from working with them, which we've found and fixed. This might coincidentally fix a number of other problems with thrown weapons with Update 21.


Oh, does this include the enchant weapon Epic Past Life and the crit range increasing enhancements?

[Lencrennis]

If there are abilities that generally don't work at all or don't work in specific instances, do please feel free to keep bugging them to make sure we don't properly verify and track these issues.

http://ddobugs.turbine.com/ics/support/ticketnewwizard.asp?style=classic&deptID=24037

I appreciate this new transparency :)

[Xaxx]

This is nonsense, you do know it is NOT possible for them to do extra work for them to get that "equal" reward? So 2hf should be relegated to second (really third) class citizens because 2wfs work SO much harder? ludicrous, balance the costs, the benefits and the rewards, Im all for it. BTW you would need close to a 100% effect proc (probably would need to be 100%) on glancing blows to come close to even, which is not even possible, not even close. Now I do think that the material costs should be higher on a 2her, but not quite twice due to the reasoning below (unless the REALLY buff 2h effects and procs to make up for the lower flexibility see below for example).



Wait wait wait.... firstly I dont have an ESoS, probably never will... and yes the weapon was/is monstrously op, but NONE of that matters to the current discussion. Your argument of WAH WAH ONE item in the past that was so op for 2hers overshadowed us for a while.... so we deserve to be the absolute best by a large margine now? Thats nonsense and you know it (also 2wf reigned supreme during the kopesh era.. and it was a hell of a lot easier to get them over ESoS). You also know that the feat investment for 2hf and 2wf is exactly the same and you wish to complain that 2wf is more expensive? You do realize that you do need those feats to compete with 2wf right?

As for material cost... I can agree that the price for a 2her should be higher (not quite twice, unless they let me choose 6 affixes like you will get) than that of a 1her, provided that 2hers get some love. Additionally you do realize the advantage of 2wf is that you can have 2 different utility choices if you so wish where as a 2her cannot right (for example you can choose dragons edge and a high damage proc in the off hand and benefit from the fort reduction full time as well as the high damage proc 50% of it)? If they wish to shift the dps focus from weapon damage to proc based (especially with such ridiculously big procs) then they need to make sure the weapons are balance for as many play styles as possible, currently only strikes per minute and crit threat range are the deciding factors, which so heavily favors 2wf kopeshes and rapiers that its hysterical.

In the end I want different playstyles to be as balanced as possible, and to do that one must balance the weapons to be as equally effective as well.

P.S. I agree that ESoS was a mistake and turbine probably admits it too off the record....

we.. what we.... I have twf toons but I also have 3 esos's in my stable. I mainly run twf but I've pretty much always preferred twf since this game started. As for the feat investment.... do you know how many thf builds I see running around without any of the thf feats that are still effective.... try that with twf.... those feats are required to make use of the weapons. So to get the most out of thf you need all three feats.... and with all three feats thf is still behind twf.... but as I've said the pendulum has swung back and forth over the years, for 8 years not just 4. This doesn't just come down to esos, for a while the forums were all about thf and only thf. Twf was looked at as complete and utter trash and people that still made builds with it were openly mocked.... and then half orcs came along later, and people went OOOOOH and thf was king at that point for a while to... other times outside of those. Right now twf is king because of the way the enhanments are and other things.... that can change in a heart beat and if you actively create weapons to try and make thf more *in line* with twf,somewhere down the line a change will be made and those weapons may be made even more powerful than esos etc.

There's also the simple fact of when you choose which way you want to take a character you know what your getting into in the fighting style you choose.... you chose thf... now you want it to be like twf... you know I don't see you taking cleave rotation and trash groups into what your talking about either. This comes down to more complexity than you wish to go on about.... and I hate to say it but one of the biggest by words in game right now is the *cestus build*... and you know what that's almost all about thf builds. Yet according to you thf is SOOOO far behind twf, yet the most popular mele build is a thf build..... please go tell the guys in that thread they're doin it wrong and that they should only be using twf.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

Dragon bane is flavor addition, associated with flavor raid.
Its noticeable only in few places in game, so weapons can be ballanced in power as bane weren't there.
Think of it as GS bypassing /evil damage reduction- good would be much better for sure, DR bypass is there after all, but its so meaningless its not important to balancing weapon effects.

It seems to me this would be a way of increasing the power of weapons without inflating the critical profiles, while also extending the longevity of the content greatly. "Flavor" seems like an extremely poor excuse not to consider it or something similar.

[J-mann]

we.. what we.... I have twf toons but I also have 3 esos's in my stable. I mainly run twf but I've pretty much always preferred twf since this game started. As for the feat investment.... do you know how many thf builds I see running around without any of the thf feats that are still effective.... try that with twf.... those feats are required to make use of the weapons. So to get the most out of thf you need all three feats.... and with all three feats thf is still behind twf.... but as I've said the pendulum has swung back and forth over the years, for 8 years not just 4. This doesn't just come down to esos, for a while the forums were all about thf and only thf. Twf was looked at as complete and utter trash and people that still made builds with it were openly mocked.... and then half orcs came along later, and people went OOOOOH and thf was king at that point for a while to... other times outside of those. Right now twf is king because of the way the enhanments are and other things.... that can change in a heart beat and if you actively create weapons to try and make thf more *in line* with twf,somewhere down the line a change will be made and those weapons may be made even more powerful than esos etc.

There's also the simple fact of when you choose which way you want to take a character you know what your getting into in the fighting style you choose.... you chose thf... now you want it to be like twf... you know I don't see you taking cleave rotation and trash groups into what your talking about either. This comes down to more complexity than you wish to go on about.... and I hate to say it but one of the biggest by words in game right now is the *cestus build*... and you know what that's almost all about thf builds. Yet according to you thf is SOOOO far behind twf, yet the most popular mele build is a thf build..... please go tell the guys in that thread they're doin it wrong and that they should only be using twf.

Wow talk about putting words in my mouth, also you seem to have a complex about this (I could care less what people on the forums think about builds so long as they are fun. For example I rather enjoy wss warpriest builds, even if they are nowhere near the top). Cetus build is another one of those.... mistakes by turbine, monks should not be allowed to use weapons they were never intended to use. It is fairly op, then again so are monchers, shidari, and draconics with proper dcs. The game and the equipment should NOT be balanced around them otherwise anything NOT them is sol. I dont play any of them I like my flavor builds to a degree (also hate being a robo). As far as the feats go... they are almost always taken when your going to 2hf. The only real exception I see is for qstaff builds (of which I am one, and the new weapon is likely not going to be ANY better than sireth as it stands) because of a bug that disallows glancing blows on cleaves.

Like I said I am willing to accept my stdps being a bit lower than 2wf and outside of cetus builds it really is (I have a 2wf longsword and a 2wf shortsword build). I am also willing to accept the lesser flexibility of a 2hf vs 2wf, but the dps difference between the two need to remain in the realm of close and with the current proc setup 2wf with rapiers or kopeshes is far ahead, and id rather not see a repeat of greensteel kopeshes or rapier 2wf only. I want balance, and I believe that any outliers should be balanced or we get the stat bloat that we see in wheloon and SH.

[Wongar]

I agree that there should be some more leveling of 2-handed v. 2-weapon.

Simple calcs I have done show that without procs a TWF will produce more DPS when fighting 3 or fewer mobs, they are about equal at 4 mobs, and the THF can do more total DPS when fighting 5 or more.
Assumptions to simplify math:
Step into a pack of N mobs and swing until everything is dead
Nothing moves, Mobs are always in glancing blow range
Weapons have same average DPS (ex Dwarven Waraxe)
All 3 feats each, no enhancements
No special weapon procs
(Procs are considered independent of base damage below)
No cleave type or other special attacks
Info on proc rates not tested and may be incorrect (mainly wiki)

This gap becomes even wider when considering to hit damage procs given glancing blows only proc on 9% (4.5% overall) of glancing blow hits v. 100% (80% overall) of offhand hits. Considering only proc damage, a TWF can kill two mobs in the time it takes a THF to kill one, and can kill 5 mobs in the time it takes a THF to kill 3. I didn't run the numbers out far enough to see where they equal as I think constantly fighting 5 or more mobs is unrealistic and the two don't converge all that fast.

While I think the base damage of the weapons having a break even point of 4 mobs at the same time is a bit high but reasonable , the difference in special effect proc damage is too much. Given that much (most) of the time fights are against 3 or fewer mobs in glancing blow range at a time, these weapons give a tremendous DPS advantage to TWF.

I would suggest adding an increased chance to proc on glancing blows to bring the proc damage more in line. I would also suggest that like glancing blows, any THF enhancements should also apply to Dwarven Waraxe and Bastard Sword when wielded as the only weapon. Something simple like "these weapons have an additional 50% chance to proc special weapon effects on glancing blows" would get the proc damage at least close to the same rate as the base damage.

Why 50%? An additional 50% (25% overall) would bring the special weapon effects break even point for TWF v. THF to about 3.5 mobs so while it seems like a large number it is really not that much more. Also uses existing game mechanics.

Why add to all weapons? Easier to code and test as it seems none of the current weapon enhancements are particular to a weapon. It would only apply to weapons with glancing plows and would therefor have no affect on a single handed weapon and would correctly apply to a Dwarven Waraxe and Bastard Sword without extra work. Again uses existing game mechanics.

Lastly I'll add that I would like to see Shields, throwing weapons, and Shortbows in the Craftable items list. Seems to be a logical extension to included throwers and Shortbows given the other ranged weapons are included.

If you are going to include off hand items like Orbs, why not shields?

Consider that every build gets an option to have a nice, configured 2nd hand item but a shield user. Shield users are already behind in many ways, please don't widen the gap even further be excluding them from crafting off hand devices.

[Kamode_Corebasher]

I realize I didn't clarify, and you definitely ran with it :-)

To clarify what I want:
Loot incentives to get most players running this u21 endgame content longer than a year. And to get me wanting to progress my characters.

My experience playing DDO (~10,000 hours over 5 years) tells me loot incentive is a must for the health of u21 and DDO in general. Currently, there's very little incentive to get any of my alts EE capable, and there's very little reason to run end-game content, and it's like pulling teeth to get the EE players I know to come out and play EE content. There's very little incentive atm.

Incentives = something like the conservative suggestion from Sirgog (same combat stats on all difficulties, lower ML on EE than EH and lower on EH than EN) would work well. I also personally like unique augments that only fall in EH, and unique augments that only fall in EE. Or the trinket tome pages that was suggested to build your own artifact trinket, where some pages can only be found in EN and some only in EH and some only found in EE difficulties.

Basically, I just want u21 to thrive for years. I want to TR for a year, then come back to end-game and find persons available and wanting to run this content. Would I rather run it on EE...Yes. But right now most of my alts are not geared nor capable. I want a reason to progress these characters of mine...and I want to do this with friends and guildies and strangers who could become friends and strangers who will never become friends and ...and. Again, there's very little incentive to get any of my alts EE capable.

AND...I believe that 90% good will come from these loot incentives I'm advocating for. I also believe we will lose some players if we implement loot incentives. More good than bad though.

What we currently get with u21:
--2 raids
--1 quest.
--A new weapon crafting system that relies on crafting materials from the 2 Raids. <--this is a good incentive and I like the more chests on higher difficulties.
--Pretty good endgame loot (after recent adjustments) for the quest and 2 raids.

What I believe will help the longevity of this quest and 2 raids:
--More unique artifact loot in the quest and the Raids.
--Difference in loot when ran on EN or EH or EE <--nothing drastic, but something good...something like what Sirgog suggested above.



So you don't want higher drop rates on EE because it will diminish the lifespan of the raid? Would you rather these weapons cost 10,000 ingots and you get 1 per raid? That would keep people raiding for ages by your logic.

But I am guessing you would like similar drop rates on all difficulties with exclusive items only dropping on EE? (no that can't be what you're asking either since you mention the pug scene)

Not sure what you're asking for honestly. The proposed system is offering named item drops and ingredients to craft customizable weapons. What else can you do to prolong the life of a raid other than increase the cost of the craftables and nerf the drop rates? You mention "good loot incentives." maybe be more specific?


You're just not getting it Satyriasys (and specifically DrOctothorpe), we players don't want to get and complete our items faster. Read that again. Read that again. We want a reason to prolong our time spent playing DDO. We want to add back an endgame that's worth playing within for a prolonged period of time--an endgame that is active and thriving and has lots of PUGs. DrOctothorpe, you're implementing a loot system which will do the opposite (or as close to opposite as can be). And I'm angry now...angry that you have the opportunity to add a big piece of the game back to a good standard and you're not taking it.

The TR system revamp is awesome, but it can only hold my attention for so long.
The new content is awesome, but can only hold my attention for so long.
The build process is awesome, but can only hold my attention for so long.
The lack of an endgame is horrible, and I want it fixed...and it's soooooo close to being fixed...but its longevity really hinges on the (Your) loot implementation and incentives.

Please don't waste this newly developed content DrOctothorpe...it will only hold our attention for months if you don't implement good loot incentives.
(And how did I miss this posting!...whats wrong with the dev tracker...catching up on this thread now as I'm sure I've already reiterated conversations already had)
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436424-Thunder-Forged-Weapons-a-formal-introduction?p=5258883#post5258883

[IBCrabin]

They can add a unique tier that is only available in EE with the drop rate similar to Draconic Soul gem

choice of
100% spell critical damage
+2 Stacking Spell DC
+1 Critical Threat Range
+1 Critical multiplier

This will provide a reason for people running EE regularly have something to stride for and won't make the base raid item for the people running EN/EH Over Power for EN/EH content.

There will never be an end game until they stop the level cap raise. End game content has to be build up with gear reflective of the difficulty and increase the content at the plateau of quests. The lack of content and end game will be a problem again when they raise level cap to 30 and these quests/raid become easier to run.

Would have been better if they kept level 28 cap raise till end of this year with the level 30 cap and use this year to build up on the content.

They can also limit on the number of bypasses someone can use on one toon to no more than 1 every 48 hours. Kind of funny and silly when a guildie went through 35+ bypasses in about 15 days to get a pinion, around summer time. Good $$$ but bad for the game longevity.

[Scraap]

I realize I didn't clarify, and you definitely ran with it :-)

To clarify what I want:
Loot incentives to get most players running this u21 endgame content longer than a year. And to get me wanting to progress my characters.

My experience playing DDO (~10,000 hours over 5 years) tells me loot incentive is a must for the health of u21 and DDO in general. Currently, there's very little incentive to get any of my alts EE capable, and there's very little reason to run end-game content, and it's like pulling teeth to get the EE players I know to come out and play EE content. There's very little incentive atm.

Incentives = something like the conservative suggestion from Sirgog (same combat stats on all difficulties, lower ML on EE than EH and lower on EH than EN) would work well. I also personally like unique augments that only fall in EH, and unique augments that only fall in EE. Or the trinket tome pages that was suggested to build your own artifact trinket, where some pages can only be found in EN and some only in EH and some only found in EE difficulties.

Basically, I just want u21 to thrive for years. I want to TR for a year, then come back to end-game and find persons available and wanting to run this content. Would I rather run it on EE...Yes. But right now most of my alts are not geared nor capable. I want a reason to progress these characters of mine...and I want to do this with friends and guildies and strangers who could become friends and strangers who will never become friends and ...and. Again, there's very little incentive to get any of my alts EE capable.

AND...I believe that 90% good will come from these loot incentives I'm advocating for. I also believe we will lose some players if we implement loot incentives. More good than bad though.

What we currently get with u21:
--2 raids
--1 quest.
--A new weapon crafting system that relies on crafting materials from the 2 Raids. <--this is a good incentive and I like the more chests on higher difficulties.
--Pretty good endgame loot (after recent adjustments) for the quest and 2 raids.

What I believe will help the longevity of this quest and 2 raids:
--More unique artifact loot in the quest and the Raids.
--Difference in loot when ran on EN or EH or EE <--nothing drastic, but something good...something like what Sirgog suggested above.

I could definitely get behind the notion of say... colorless masterful craftsmanship and wonderous craftsmanship augments for hard and elite as a way of adding something that would be persistently pursued regardless of how far we may go past 28 as a way of appealing to a broad spectrum of folks (including the level-once guys with alts.) as a way of having a shiny, yet keeping it in check balance-wise.

[Satyriasys]

I realize I didn't clarify, and you definitely ran with it :-)

To clarify what I want:
Loot incentives to get most players running this u21 endgame content longer than a year. And to get me wanting to progress my characters.


I am certainly not against exclusive items in EE. I think the benefits in the long run out weigh the criticisms. I would hate to see the minimum level dropped however, it would invalidate too many current items. Reaching high enough level to use this gear is one incentive to play at cap and we certainly need more people there. With future higher levels and content these weapons will get plenty of use.

[Hathorian]

How many shadow scales drop on EN? What is the binding status of ingots, scales and Phlogiston? Unbound, hopefully, like shroud ingredients.

[Shorlong]

How many shadow scales drop on EN? What is the binding status of ingots, scales and Phlogiston? Unbound, hopefully, like shroud ingredients.

On an EN completion, I had gotten 10 shadow scales. They were BTC, along with Ingots. I didn't see Phlogiston, but I did see Dragon Souls, no idea what those are used for.

[IronClan]

The max sustainable buffed necro DC for a maxed completionist pale master running in Magister right now is 69



Having actual no-fail gets silly really quickly. In EH, a pale master runs away with most of the kills before other characters even get to swing at them. It's not challenging in the least and while it's a bit of fun for the character in godmode, it's no fun at all for the rest of the party.

You mean like the Von3 Daily the other day where I literally didn't bother swinging at anything that wasn't red after a while because you and another caster were insta-killing everything so fast it was pointless? Yeah agreed :)

[Hathorian]

On an EN completion, I had gotten 10 shadow scales. They were BTC, along with Ingots. I didn't see Phlogiston, but I did see Dragon Souls, no idea what those are used for.

Thank you, +1. Also a +1 to xTethx for providing the info on page 1 of this thread.

Only 10 scales per EN completion? I hope they bumped this up bit a on their internal version. It will take 10 EN completions to make an upgraded armor on each character. They said the armor is similar to tier 1 and tier 2 weapons in terms of upgrade requirements so it will also take about 10 runs on EN for each tier 2 weapon. Ugh. Considering how long and boring the shadow dracolich raid is it will be a grindfest. Hopefully some of the upgrades I want require red scales instead (which come from a fun raid)....

I think they got rid of the souls on the internal version and there are now only ingots, scales and phlogistons.

[IronClan]

Two handed fighters shouldn't get equally rewarded for doing half the work. If someone goes through the trouble of forging two weapons instead of one, it's only fair that they do more dps. There are already ways to stack up glancing blows proc damage chances to help balance things out. No more than that is needed.

Nope, old self serving argument, wasn't valid when it was Greensteel khopeshes, isn't valid for this either.

The truth is that TWF has the ability to double the affixes you have available to you, and double the procs per combat ability or attack. It has the following innate advantages:

Superior single target damage due to multiple strikes
Avoiding unwanted aggro
Double the on crit effect
Double "active attacks" (two smites, two assassinates, two Ameliorating Strikes etc. per use)
Double the possible item affixes and ultility

One of the advantages that is often overlooked by unimaginative players is that a a TWF can have two COMPLIMENTARY weapons not necessarily identical ones; thus doubling the affixes and even having a force multiplier effect. Examples of this are affixes held in the off hand that proc on both the main hand and off hand. On crit procs that happen on every critical but you can have a different one in each hand (thus doubling your on crit procs to 2 per crit).

I'm sorry but "whaaaa I have to make twice as many" is not any sort of counter balance and has only ever been an extremely laughable self serving justification.

Especially in a game where making items at end game can often be one of the few things you've left to do to keep you engaged in the game. In which case it's no longer "twice as much work" but "twice as many goals to aspire to". Suddenly we're no longer painting a picture of toil and woe are we?

[IronClan]

Scaling Treasure (Normal/Hard/Elite differences)
Extra Commendations of Valor in Thunderholme
DC’s
Critical Profiles


Okay you addressed those, now what about these:

Shields
Missing Melee weapons
Missing Ranged weapons
Missing Thrown weapons
Disparity between 1h and 2h in a system that has lots of "proc" based effects that clearly favor TWF and dual wielding. and powerful "on crit" effects that clearly favor Khopesh and Rapier and basically destroy the last 4 years of making weapons in DDO more balanced and higher diversity of choices.

Why does Turbine want to destroy weapon diversity?


We recently found a pervasive issue that broadly affected Thrown Weapons, preventing some abilities from working with them, which we've found and fixed. This might coincidentally fix a number of other problems with thrown weapons with Update 21.

Doesn't matter Varg, we're not getting any throwing weapons to use in the new system.

[Teh_Troll]

Nope, old self serving argument, wasn't valid when it was Greensteel khopeshes, isn't valid for this either.

The truth is that TWF has the ability to double the affixes you have available to you, and double the procs per combat ability or attack. It has the following innate advantages:

Superior single target damage due to multiple strikes
Avoiding unwanted aggro
Double the on crit effect
Double "active attacks" (two smites, two assassinates, two Ameliorating Strikes etc. per use)
Double the possible item affixes and ultility

On of the advantages that is often overlooked by unimaginative players is that a a TWF can have two COMPLIMENTARY weapons not necessarily identical ones; thus doubling the affixes and even having a force multiplier effect. Examples of this are affixes held in the off hand that proc on both the main hand and off hand. On crit procs that happen on every critical but you can have a different one in each hand (thus doubling your on crit procs to 2 per crit).

I'm sorry but "whaaaa I have to make twice as many" is not any sort of counter balance and has only ever been an extremely laughable self serving justification.

Especially in a game where making items at end game can often be one of the few things you've left to do to keep you engaged in the game. In which case it's no longer "twice as much work" but "twice as many goals to aspire to". Suddenly we're no longer painting a picture of toil and woe are we?

So you want to do half the work for the same power?

And I thought I like piking.

[redspecter23]

Nope, old self serving argument, wasn't valid when it was Greensteel khopeshes, isn't valid for this either.

The truth is that TWF has the ability to double the affixes you have available to you, and double the procs per combat ability or attack. It has the following innate advantages:

Superior single target damage due to multiple strikes
Avoiding unwanted aggro
Double the on crit effect
Double "active attacks" (two smites, two assassinates, two Ameliorating Strikes etc. per use)
Double the possible item affixes and ultility

One of the advantages that is often overlooked by unimaginative players is that a a TWF can have two COMPLIMENTARY weapons not necessarily identical ones; thus doubling the affixes and even having a force multiplier effect. Examples of this are affixes held in the off hand that proc on both the main hand and off hand. On crit procs that happen on every critical but you can have a different one in each hand (thus doubling your on crit procs to 2 per crit).

I'm sorry but "whaaaa I have to make twice as many" is not any sort of counter balance and has only ever been an extremely laughable self serving justification.

Especially in a game where making items at end game can often be one of the few things you've left to do to keep you engaged in the game. In which case it's no longer "twice as much work" but "twice as many goals to aspire to". Suddenly we're no longer painting a picture of toil and woe are we?

I see you are quick to point out the advantages of twf here, but how about the massive extra damage that thf is getting. At 4.5[w] damage a greataxe deals about 30 base damage compared to a rapier that deals 16. The greataxe is dealing 14 base damage more than the rapier. If these same weapons were 1[w] the greataxe would still be ahead, but only by 3 points. As the multiplier goes up, two handed weapons pull ahead further and further due to their higher base damage. Why are you not petitioning for higher multipliers on twf to compensate?

My point is, there are inherent advantages to thf and to twf. Turbine has decided to focus on proc on hit and proc on crit, which severely favors certain weapon types and fighting styles. Perhaps twf is about to become more popular again because of this push.

[Teh_Troll]

Perhaps twf is about to become more popular again because of this push.

I'll give you a hint . . . TWFing has always been better.

/flame on

[GeoffWatson]

We recently found a pervasive issue that broadly affected Thrown Weapons, preventing some abilities from working with them, which we've found and fixed. This might coincidentally fix a number of other problems with thrown weapons with Update 21.

We'd have to look into it in more detail for some of the other issues.

If there are abilities that generally don't work at all or don't work in specific instances, do please feel free to keep bugging them to make sure we properly verify and track these issues.

http://ddobugs.turbine.com/ics/support/ticketnewwizard.asp?style=classic&deptID=24037

Excellent.
Can you fix crit-bonuses for Handwraps too?

Geoff.

[redspecter23]

I'll give you a hint . . . TWFing has always been better.

/flame on

I never used the words better or worse. The key is in the wording. Troll on!

[IronClan]

I'll give you a hint . . . TWFing has always been better.

/flame on

Agreed, there's just too many people running around with identical main and off hand weapons due to the human nature OCD thing that makes us want to have everything symetrical and matching, for some people to realize just how powerful it can be to have twice as many weapon affixes and augments.

THF:
Prefix
Suffix
Red slot
Clear slot

TFW
Prefix 1
Prefix 2
Suffix 1
Suffix 2
Redslot 1
Redslot 2
Clear 1
Clear 2

Buy hey they're going to have to "grind" the shadow dragon raid an extra 10 times so it's totally okay.

OBTW 30 base damage versus 16? When the 30 base damage weapon has a 10% chance at a couple hundred points of on crit damage versus the 16 base damage weapon having a 30% chance of a couple hundred on crit damage? LOL...

[redspecter23]

OBTW 30 base damage versus 16? When the 30 base damage weapon has a 10% chance at a couple hundred points of on crit damage versus the 16 base damage weapon having a 30% chance of a couple hundred on crit damage? LOL...

Bad example on my part. The greataxe is getting a 10% chance at x3 (or more) and the rapier is 30% (or more) chance of x2, higher on a 19/20. There is much more math involved of course, including glancing blows, cleaves (which favor two handed fighting), half str bonus on off hand two weapon fighting, enhancement and destiny crit bonuses and more, but the basic point still stands. Higher [w] multipliers favor two handed weapons. I don't think you can just "lol" that away.

[Teh_Troll]

Agreed, there's just too many people running around with identical main and off hand weapons due to the human nature OCD thing that makes us want to have everything symetrical and matching, for some people to realize just how powerful it can be to have twice as many weapon affixes and augments.


Man . . . not sure about that. Besides like Stunning 10 in one and Vertigo in the other . .. what really matters?

Back when Nightmares worked having two of them was wonderful, same with WoPs, vorpals, etc . . . when swinging for the fences with weapon procs it paid to double up on the strong ones.

[Shorlong]

Thank you, +1. Also a +1 to xTethx for providing the info on page 1 of this thread.

Only 10 scales per EN completion? I hope they bumped this up bit a on their internal version. It will take 10 EN completions to make an upgraded armor on each character. They said the armor is similar to tier 1 and tier 2 weapons in terms of upgrade requirements so it will also take about 10 runs on EN for each tier 2 weapon. Ugh. Considering how long and boring the shadow dracolich raid is it will be a grindfest. Hopefully some of the upgrades I want require red scales instead (which come from a fun raid)....

I think they got rid of the souls on the internal version and there are now only ingots, scales and phlogistons.

I just checked, they have changed since the first weekend. Looks like ingots are now unbound. I will log into a different toon to check on scales.

EDIT: Scales still BTC.

[J-mann]

Man . . . not sure about that. Besides like Stunning 10 in one and Vertigo in the other . .. what really matters?

Back when Nightmares worked having two of them was wonderful, same with WoPs, vorpals, etc . . . when swinging for the fences with weapon procs it paid to double up on the strong ones.

Having the new dragons edge in one hand and a dps proc on the other is pretty big imo.... but yeah you could get the combos you need that 2hers simply cannot possibly get. Casters have it a bit worse than melee where 2 weapons is so much better than a staff its hysterical but being able to mix and match the procs/abilities you need is a HUGE benefit for 2wf.


Bad example on my part. The greataxe is getting a 10% chance at x3 (or more) and the rapier is 30% (or more) chance of x2, higher on a 19/20. There is much more math involved of course, including glancing blows, cleaves (which favor two handed fighting), half str bonus on off hand two weapon fighting, enhancement and destiny crit bonuses and more, but the basic point still stands. Higher [w] multipliers favor two handed weapons. I don't think you can just "lol" that away.

..... yup 2her definitely has more base damage then 1 1her.... but were talking about 2wf where almost all of those "advantages" of a 2her are balanced by having an OFFHAND weapon. btw 16 x 2 is 32 better than the 30 of your great ax... and you didnt even use the best weapon for 2wf like you did for 2hers.... and seeing as the procs and utility reign supreme here 2wf is in a MUCH better spot than 2hf.


Nope, old self serving argument, wasn't valid when it was Greensteel khopeshes, isn't valid for this either.

The truth is that TWF has the ability to double the affixes you have available to you, and double the procs per combat ability or attack. It has the following innate advantages:

Superior single target damage due to multiple strikes
Avoiding unwanted aggro
Double the on crit effect
Double "active attacks" (two smites, two assassinates, two Ameliorating Strikes etc. per use)
Double the possible item affixes and ultility

One of the advantages that is often overlooked by unimaginative players is that a a TWF can have two COMPLIMENTARY weapons not necessarily identical ones; thus doubling the affixes and even having a force multiplier effect. Examples of this are affixes held in the off hand that proc on both the main hand and off hand. On crit procs that happen on every critical but you can have a different one in each hand (thus doubling your on crit procs to 2 per crit).

I'm sorry but "whaaaa I have to make twice as many" is not any sort of counter balance and has only ever been an extremely laughable self serving justification.

Especially in a game where making items at end game can often be one of the few things you've left to do to keep you engaged in the game. In which case it's no longer "twice as much work" but "twice as many goals to aspire to". Suddenly we're no longer painting a picture of toil and woe are we?

oh look someone gets it. Its not hard to understand, in the current layout 2wf is vastly superior, just like high crit range weapons are vastly superior as well. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out, and the only real argument i have seen for this being just is that 2wf requires twice the mats to complete so it should be grossly more powerful... bullocks and we all know it.

ps. the other argument is that ESoS was op so now one handers should be op.... pretty childish

[Munkenmo]

We recently found a pervasive issue that broadly affected Thrown Weapons, preventing some abilities from working with them, which we've found and fixed. This might coincidentally fix a number of other problems with thrown weapons with Update 21.


I hope this won't re-instate the bug where throwing a non returning throwing weapon, then switching to a normal weapon will cause you to lose your weapon permanently.

aka. The abbot ate my Greensteel.

[Eth]

I hope this won't re-instate the bug where throwing a non returning throwing weapon, then switching to a normal weapon will cause you to lose your weapon permanently.

aka. The abbot ate my Greensteel.

lol - good one. I still switch to a stack of scrolls first out of habit everytime I run out of stacks of non returning throwers, before switching to my main weapon.

[slarden]

Accidental double post

[slarden]

On another post someone said that the way the upgrade mats work:

On EN only tier 1 mats drop
On EH only tier 1 and tier 2 mats drop
On EE tier 1, tier 2 and tier 3 mats drop

Is this accurate? Can anyone confirm?

That doesn't seem to be consistent with what Doc said.

[Ungood]

On another post someone said that the way the upgrade mats work:

On EN only tier 1 mats drop
On EH only tier 1 and tier 2 mats drop
On EE tier 1, tier 2 and tier 3 mats drop

Is this accurate? Can anyone confirm?

That doesn't seem to be consistent with what Doc said.

I am the one that said that.

And I just looked again:



Ingredients
Thunderholme Ingots - Found on the landscape & in large numbers in the raids
Dragon Scales (Red & Dark) - Found in raids, common
Phlogiston (Red & Dark) - Found in raids, uncommon
Commendations of Valor - extra Commendations are found in raid chests

Drop rates of all these items increase with difficulty level (Normal, Hard, Elite).

Tier 1 – Ingots Only

Tier 2 - Ingots and Scales

Tier 3 - Ingots, Scales, and Phlogiston

I am wrong.

But, you gotta admit, it seems like a good idea for the next raid tho.

(and a great way to fix LoB)

[Teh_Troll]

So like 20-30 runs for a weapon?

Will this resurect the "raiding guild?"

Should be an interesting experiment.

[Shorlong]

On another post someone said that the way the upgrade mats work:

On EN only tier 1 mats drop
On EH only tier 1 and tier 2 mats drop
On EE tier 1, tier 2 and tier 3 mats drop

Is this accurate? Can anyone confirm?

That doesn't seem to be consistent with what Doc said.

I can confirm that all mats drop on all difficulties. Ingots are found in both raids, Shadow Dragon Scales and Shadow Phlogiston drop from Temple of the Deathwyrm, and Fire Dragon Scales and Fire Phlogiston drop from Fire on Thunder Peak. Depending on what it is you want to craft, you need various amounts of either Shadow or Fire scales and phlogiston, or both. Basically, it works like this.

Base Item:
20 Ingots
15 CoVs

Tier 1:
60 Ingots
45 CoVs

Tier 2:
320 Ingots
240 CoVs
100 Scales (varies depending on what you want. Could be 100 of one type, or split 75 of one and 25 of the other, or 50/50)

Tier 2 Augment (if you want the augment instead of a normal tier 2 effect):
720 Ingots
240 CoVs

Tier 3:
800 Ingots
600 CoVs
200 Scales
30 Phlogiston

Ingots and CoVs drop in the wilderness area chests along with the raid chests (all chests in the raids can drop them.) Scales and Phlogiston (as well as the ingots and CoVs) drop on ALL difficulties of the raid, end chest only. Higher difficulties increases the amount that drops, though I am not sure of the amount as I haven't had a chance to run on anything higher than EN so far.

[slarden]

Thank you all for the replies!

[Teh_Troll]

So what these drop-rates looking like? Are we really gonna have to troll and explorer area for this stuff or will enough drop in a raid?

[Shorlong]

So what these drop-rates looking like? Are we really gonna have to troll and explorer area for this stuff or will enough drop in a raid?

Outside of CoVs (which I haven't gotten any yet as they weren't implemented when i did the raid) you would be better off doing the raid for ingredients. I was averaging 5 Ingots per chest in the wilderness (though had heard it's up to 15 in those chests, but cannot confirm) while in the raid I got 20, and that was out of just one chest.

[die]

Outside of CoVs (which I haven't gotten any yet as they weren't implemented when i did the raid) you would be better off doing the raid for ingredients. I was averaging 5 Ingots per chest in the wilderness (though had heard it's up to 15 in those chests, but cannot confirm) while in the raid I got 20, and that was out of just one chest.

Since the first beta I have ran the **** out of the explorer area and last night I got up to 15 ingots so unless they do a major increase the raid will be the only way to get ingots reliable

[die]

I can confirm that all mats drop on all difficulties. Ingots are found in both raids, Shadow Dragon Scales and Shadow Phlogiston drop from Temple of the Deathwyrm, and Fire Dragon Scales and Fire Phlogiston drop from Fire on Thunder Peak. Depending on what it is you want to craft, you need various amounts of either Shadow or Fire scales and phlogiston, or both. Basically, it works like this.

Base Item:
20 Ingots
15 CoVs

Tier 1:
60 Ingots
45 CoVs

Tier 2:
320 Ingots
240 CoVs
100 Scales (varies depending on what you want. Could be 100 of one type, or split 75 of one and 25 of the other, or 50/50)

Tier 2 Augment (if you want the augment instead of a normal tier 2 effect):
720 Ingots
240 CoVs

Tier 3:
800 Ingots
600 CoVs
200 Scales
30 Phlogiston

Ingots and CoVs drop in the wilderness area chests along with the raid chests (all chests in the raids can drop them.) Scales and Phlogiston (as well as the ingots and CoVs) drop on ALL difficulties of the raid, end chest only. Higher difficulties increases the amount that drops, though I am not sure of the amount as I haven't had a chance to run on anything higher than EN so far. I seen theses amounts this morning lol I don't have that kind of attention span any more for grinding out gear having 13 end game toons too level up and re- gear. (which is my own fault) Time to do a major down size.

[Hathorian]

I only seem to get 2-5 ingots per wilderness chest most times. Once I get 8.

Also, once you kill the rednames in the wilderness they don't seem to respawn, even after you reset the dungeon. odd. I wonder if it takes hours for them to respawn....

[Nammmmmmm]

Why do a lot of these effects have saves on them? You guys should just make them no -save but with a lowerproc rate, since a 50 will DC will do nearly nothing in EEs at all :P Make it a 5% chance to either stun or just on vorpals. Oh and the chance to give a negative level has a save AND ITS ON A VORPAL what the hell are you guys thinking !

[kmoustakas]

I could be wrong here but nobody else notice that the level 22 unbound version is flat out amazing for it's level?

+9 so +27 spellcasting implement with the right enhancement or slot, +3.5w so it's very close to the drow weapons (I know +0,5w isn't better than the increased crit range), metalline and a slot.

[SirValentine]

Tier 1 – Ingots Only

Dwarvencraft Combustion, Nullification, Radiance, Devotion, Glaciation, Resonance, Corrosion, Impulse, Magnetism, Reconstruction
+150 Spellpower to Fire, Negative, Light, Positive, Cold, Sonic, Acid, Force, Electric, Repair/Rust Spell Power. (For 2-handed weapons: +1 Unique bonus to Spell DCs)

Tier 2 - Ingots and Scales

Dwarvencraft Focus
Universal Spell DCs +2 exceptional (Stacks will other sources) (For 2-handed weapons: +1% Unique bonus to Spell Crit)


So, in addition to raising Equipment bonus to DCs up to +6, you're adding new +1 "Unique" and +2 "Exceptional" DC bonuses, and the recently-added +2 "Enhancement" via yellow augments.

Please change the items formerly known as "Spell Focus Mastery" from a now-useless non-stacking +1 or +2 Equipment bonus to being either an Enhancement or an Exceptional bonus.

[SirValentine]

- Forge a "base" weapon then upgrade 3 times
- There are multiple choices for each tier
- The first tier and some options in the second tier can be crafted with ingredients found in the adventure area, without needing to run the Raids. The Raids drop ingredients for crafting all tiers.


Would it be possible for you to allow putting on an additional lower-tier ability in lieu of a higher-tier ability? I.e., upgrade 3 times with 3 different Tier 1 abilities, but no Tier 2 or Tier 3 abilities?

[Shorlong]

I have made two base items so far, don't have enough ingots to go to tier 1. I can't give feedback on the longbow as it seems bugged. I cannot hit anything with it, it does the attack animation, but no damage anywhere.

I also made a bastard sword for my PM, and it's ok. He's currently using Nightmare, damage is about the same, which isn't bad for a ML:22 item. However, I crit next to never on the Thunder-Forged. Now, keep in mind, this toon is NOT built to be a pure dps melee, he has melee as a backup for spells and for flavor reasons. However, with Nightmare he's hitting around 45-60 per hit, not including any extra damage from Eldritch Knight and other sources (augments). He also crits pretty regularly for around 125-180. With the Thunder-Forged, hits are a little higher, between 60-75, but I have rarely seen a critical hit. Only feat I have for crits is Power Critical. Now, when I did crit, it was for a little more damage on average (lowest was a 143, but highest was 231).

I'm hoping that at tier 3, the damage does even out to make up for the crits, because as it stands, I agree with most everyone else. The crit profiles on these leaves a LOT to be desired....

[redspecter23]

I have made two base items so far, don't have enough ingots to go to tier 1. I can't give feedback on the longbow as it seems bugged. I cannot hit anything with it, it does the attack animation, but no damage anywhere.

I also made a bastard sword for my PM, and it's ok. He's currently using Nightmare, damage is about the same, which isn't bad for a ML:22 item. However, I crit next to never on the Thunder-Forged. Now, keep in mind, this toon is NOT built to be a pure dps melee, he has melee as a backup for spells and for flavor reasons. However, with Nightmare he's hitting around 45-60 per hit, not including any extra damage from Eldritch Knight and other sources (augments). He also crits pretty regularly for around 125-180. With the Thunder-Forged, hits are a little higher, between 60-75, but I have rarely seen a critical hit. Only feat I have for crits is Power Critical. Now, when I did crit, it was for a little more damage on average (lowest was a 143, but highest was 231).

I'm hoping that at tier 3, the damage does even out to make up for the crits, because as it stands, I agree with most everyone else. The crit profiles on these leaves a LOT to be desired....

The crit profile on the bastard sword should be the same as a nightmare. Assuming you have improved crit: slash, they should crit the exact same number of times. If not, that's a bug and not a problem with WW weapons. Now nightmare has improved crit as part of it's abilities so if you don't have the feat that would explain why Nightmare is seeing double the number of crits. Nightmare does slightly higher [w], but WW should have a slightly higher multiplier, at least at the highest tier. Neither of these will affect the number of crits you see though it would affect the damage output.

Anyway, my point is to not complain about the crit profile when you're comparing it to something with the exact same crit profile. If you're seeing inadequacies in the WW bastard sword during this comparison then there are other variables to look at.

[Oxarhamar]

I have made two base items so far, don't have enough ingots to go to tier 1. I can't give feedback on the longbow as it seems bugged. I cannot hit anything with it, it does the attack animation, but no damage anywhere.

I also made a bastard sword for my PM, and it's ok. He's currently using Nightmare, damage is about the same, which isn't bad for a ML:22 item. However, I crit next to never on the Thunder-Forged. Now, keep in mind, this toon is NOT built to be a pure dps melee, he has melee as a backup for spells and for flavor reasons. However, with Nightmare he's hitting around 45-60 per hit, not including any extra damage from Eldritch Knight and other sources (augments). He also crits pretty regularly for around 125-180. With the Thunder-Forged, hits are a little higher, between 60-75, but I have rarely seen a critical hit. Only feat I have for crits is Power Critical. Now, when I did crit, it was for a little more damage on average (lowest was a 143, but highest was 231).

I'm hoping that at tier 3, the damage does even out to make up for the crits, because as it stands, I agree with most everyone else. The crit profiles on these leaves a LOT to be desired....

you should see half the amount of Crits from Nightmare 17-20 to Thunder-Forged 19-20 (without Improved Critical Slashing)

The plus side is that Nightmare has Keen so if you have the Improved Critical feat as most melee would then there is no difference in Crit range.

[Shorlong]

The crit profile on the bastard sword should be the same as a nightmare. Assuming you have improved crit: slash, they should crit the exact same number of times. If not, that's a bug and not a problem with WW weapons. Now nightmare has improved crit as part of it's abilities so if you don't have the feat that would explain why Nightmare is seeing double the number of crits. Nightmare does slightly higher [w], but WW should have a slightly higher multiplier, at least at the highest tier. Neither of these will affect the number of crits you see though it would affect the damage output.

Anyway, my point is to not complain about the crit profile when you're comparing it to something with the exact same crit profile. If you're seeing inadequacies in the WW bastard sword during this comparison then there are other variables to look at.


you should see half the amount of Crits from Nightmare 17-20 to Thunder-Forged 19-20 (without Improved Critical Slashing)

The plus side is that Nightmare has Keen so if you have the Improved Critical feat as most melee would then there is no difference in Crit range.

That's the issue then. I don't have Improved Crit as I melee only as secondary. I only have the Power Critical feat, maybe I should switch that out and test the differences.

[Teh_Troll]

That's the issue then. I don't have Improved Crit as I melee only as secondary. I only have the Power Critical feat, maybe I should switch that out and test the differences.

Did anyone else LOL?

[IronClan]

That's the issue then. I don't have Improved Crit as I melee only as secondary. I only have the Power Critical feat, maybe I should switch that out and test the differences.

You should Power critical is not a good feat.

So we get any movement on the missing weapons and shields? it seems like they aren't addressing this because they have no intention of listening to the overwhelming negative feedback. I'm guessing they are so stuck on having unique art for all the weapons that they're simply not going to include the least popular ones. so they can avoid some man hours on artwork. This is probably a suit and tie guy design choice, so none of the nuts and bolts developers want to talk about it for fear of getting Feathered.

Turbine when you put a bunch of stuff emphasizing less optimal weapons into a recent update (enhancement pass) you really can't just up and ignore those weapons a few months later. Not unless you want to reinforce the deserved perception of being unable to finish and/or abandoning what you started.

[Shorlong]

Did anyone else LOL?

Hey, I'm awesome at building pure casters and assassins, and a few dual threat builds, even a great healer. But melee? I was never good with that, even in PnP....

[the_laughing_god]

I cannot haz shuriken?

Second this. I have and use shuriken, and see various shuriken thrower builds on forums. I have never seen a maul build, yet that made the list.

[lyrecono]

Mauls always were popular amongst 2hf toons, to switch to when dealing with skellies
Triple positive green steel mauls were use full for the Abot too.
Even to this day the 3X pos maul is the go to weapon for beating on the Truthfull One in FoT.
I would not be surprised if it's the go to toy for the shadow dragon too, assuming you have the gloves/ bracers/ ring to hit ghost stuff. Until you build something better with ww
They don't make m like they used too I guess.:-)
Nice too see that the vale gives better value for it's money then later content XD

[Aviya]

I had some friends running the math for these new weapons.

ESOS is the only weapon that can match the power of the Thunder-forged Greataxe/Falchion on 0% fort mobs. They are pretty much even. ESOS slightly better if you spam cleaves like mad and always have max damage buffs running (or against mobs immune to fire or negative damage).
Master Blitz will pull ESOS further ahead because the dmg increase doesn't work on fire and negative damage of the thunderforgeds.

Other than that situation (like fort mobs) thunder-weapons are ahead not only of the ESOS but especially of everything else.

[Ungood]

I had some friends running the math for these new weapons.

ESOS is the only weapon that can match the power of the Thunder-forged Greataxe/Falchion on 0% fort mobs. They are pretty much even. ESOS slightly better if you spam cleaves like mad and always have max damage buffs running (or against mobs immune to fire or negative damage).
Master Blitz will pull ESOS further ahead because the dmg increase doesn't work on fire and negative damage of the thunderforgeds.

Other than that situation (like fort mobs) thunder-weapons are ahead not only of the ESOS but especially of everything else.

This has always irked me to be honest.

I mean really, a level 20+ drow can't figure out.. "hey you know I should get some heavy fort".

That has always peeved me, that so many mobs don't have fortification, resists, any kinds of buffs, I mean really, what is up with that. I could understand a wolf (or any other animal like creature) not having fort, but Drow? Humans? Even Hobgoblins not having it by level 20+ That's silly.

I imagine something like "Oh look at me, I am a very powerful high priestess of loath, bow before me and all my power" and yet they don't have any resist gear on, no fort items, no death block, I mean, by this time has at least heavy fort, heck, it's a common drop item by level 10, how did they survive in a culture of a bunch of back stabbers, it's just totally unrealistic.

How did someone get to be "Weapon master" of a house, if they haven't figured out about heavy fort? It's silly.

Really, pretty much all FR drow should be rocking some heavy fort.

[lyrecono]

This has always irked me to be honest.

I mean really, a level 20+ drow can't figure out.. "hey you know I should get some heavy fort".

That has always peeved me, that so many mobs don't have fortification, resists, any kinds of buffs, I mean really, what is up with that. I could understand a wolf (or any other animal like creature) not having fort, but Drow? Humans? Even Hobgoblins not having it by level 20+ That's silly.

I imagine something like "Oh look at me, I am a very powerful high priestess of loath, bow before me and all my power" and yet they don't have any resist gear on, no fort items, no death block, I mean, by this time has at least heavy fort, heck, it's a common drop item by level 10, how did they survive in a culture of a bunch of back stabbers, it's just totally unrealistic.

How did someone get to be "Weapon master" of a house, if they haven't figured out about heavy fort? It's silly.

Really, pretty much all FR drow should be rocking some heavy fort.

Protecting their own interest. slay the mage who is develloping this new heavy fort thing before he finishes it..

All joking asside, when you play a video game that allows for the occasional damage spike, you might get that wauw feeling. You and that ogre are hacking away at each other in the waterworks, both at 10% of your life and then it hapends, a crit with carnifex, bam, a whoppen 150 damage, you win the fight. a close call is all you need to get the adreneline going.

There are plenty of constructs, undead and plants around to annoy us, making everything 20+ immune to crits would turn it all into generic gray paste and remove one of the last few reasons to play them.

I rather have full fort only for full plate/adam body, not for robe wearing toons.

[Hathorian]

Did anyone else LOL?

Yes I did and I'm at work. I can't imagine taking power critical over improved critical.

[Teh_Troll]

This has always irked me to be honest.

I mean really, a level 20+ drow can't figure out.. "hey you know I should get some heavy fort".

That has always peeved me, that so many mobs don't have fortification, resists, any kinds of buffs, I mean really, what is up with that. I could understand a wolf (or any other animal like creature) not having fort, but Drow? Humans? Even Hobgoblins not having it by level 20+ That's silly.

I imagine something like "Oh look at me, I am a very powerful high priestess of loath, bow before me and all my power" and yet they don't have any resist gear on, no fort items, no death block, I mean, by this time has at least heavy fort, heck, it's a common drop item by level 10, how did they survive in a culture of a bunch of back stabbers, it's just totally unrealistic.

How did someone get to be "Weapon master" of a house, if they haven't figured out about heavy fort? It's silly.

Really, pretty much all FR drow should be rocking some heavy fort.

It's a stupid comparison. They have tens of thousands of HP.

[Eth]

It's a stupid comparison. They have tens of thousands of HP.

And the best thing about this is that turbine doesn't care and puts the same HP scaling on 100%+ fort mobs.

[Teh_Troll]

And the best thing about this is that turbine doesn't care and puts the same HP scaling on 100%+ fort mobs.

If certain players aren't intelligent enough to parse the difference, how can we expect the devs to do the same?

[Teh_Troll]

Back on topic . . .

So are we back to singing "Hail to king khopesh!" again? I know it's looking like a zillion runs to get these things but once we get there . . . are all other on-handed weapons going to the back of the bus?

[redspecter23]

Back on topic . . .

So are we back to singing "Hail to king khopesh!" again? I know it's looking like a zillion runs to get these things but once we get there . . . are all other on-handed weapons going to the back of the bus?

I'm looking forward to war hammers myself, but with pulverizer that's basically a khopesh without needing a special feat anyway.

I get that the devs want to keep crit enhancers in the enhancement and destiny trees and move away from putting them on weapons, but that leaves a lot of weapons in the dust currently. Why doesn't a morninglord get crit enhancements for heavy maces. If there were a top tier morninglord ability that gave +1 crit range and multiplier on heavy maces, they would at least have a niche use. Other enhancements like that could make weapons that are less universally good at least useful for certain race/class combinations. Daggers are great on Assassins. Quarterstaves on Henshin or Acrobat. I just feel like that mechanic wasn't expanded on as much as it should have been.

[Eth]

Back on topic . . .

So are we back to singing "Hail to king khopesh!" again? I know it's looking like a zillion runs to get these things but once we get there . . . are all other on-handed weapons going to the back of the bus?

For everything with 8 Fighter lvls - yes (15-20 x3 khopesh).
Rogues have their niche for daggers and qstaffs (17-20 x3).
Blunts are good if you run in LD (17-20 x3 warhammers).
And Ravager stacks with pulverizer, but who plays a barb anyway (15-20 x3 warhammers).

Personally I'm probably going for one Warhammer with the 35% fort bypass and regenerating action boost thing. And keeping Mornh in the other hand for set bonus, seeker and more crit range.

[Hathorian]

Back on topic . . .

So are we back to singing "Hail to king khopesh!" again? I know it's looking like a zillion runs to get these things but once we get there . . . are all other on-handed weapons going to the back of the bus?

Rapiers and scimitars will crit more often so won't they be better for the procs? Well, there will be a lot more fighting skeletons it seems, so warhammers will likely be a lot more popular....

On a side note...I think u21 is the nail in the coffin for pale masters being a viable end game build (being relegated to flavor build or forced to use shiradi most of the time).

[Eth]

Rapiers and scimitars will crit more often so won't they be better for the procs? Well, there will be a lot more fighting skeletons it seems, so warhammers will likely be a lot more popular....

On a side note...I think u21 is the nail in the coffin for pale masters being a viable end game build (being relegated to flavor build or forced to use shiradi most of the time).

Yea, PMs are rather suboptimal in the shadow dragon raid (you can be valuable if you can solve puzzles though :D).

Although...they get thealed by negative damage...hmhmhm...

[Hathorian]

For everything with 8 Fighter lvls - yes (15-20 x3 khopesh).
Rogues have their niche for daggers and qstaffs (17-20 x3).
Blunts are good if you run in LD (17-20 x3 warhammers).
And Ravager stacks with pulverizer, but who plays a barb anyway (15-20 x3 warhammers).

Personally I'm probably going for one Warhammer with the 35% fort bypass and regenerating action boost thing. And keeping Mornh in the other hand for set bonus, seeker and more crit range.

Yeah, I think the thunderforged fort bypass warhammer + Mornh is a good call. I actually have Mornh on one of my characters. His next life will be 8F/6R/6M dualwielding deathnips so that will be perfect. Deathnips vs most monsters and the warhammers vs shadow dracolich/skellies/Abbot/TO, etc

With the number of red names and high fort mobs (undead) I wonder if precision is a better feat than PA for TWF builds these days. It would be good if you can fit in both and switch as needed....

[Hathorian]

Yea, PMs are rather suboptimal in the shadow dragon raid (you can be valuable if you can solve puzzles though :D).

And they are totally useless in the Double Dragons raid as almost everything is red named. Even in the wilderness most of the monsters are skeletons.....

[Ungood]

It's a stupid comparison. They have tens of thousands of HP.

right.. I can see it now.

Army Leader: "Weapons master, these adventures we keep facing have this item on. that protects them from critical hits, we should consider doing the same, given we plan to wage war an entire city of these people"

Weapon Master: "Nahh, my 10K HP will protect me"

Army Leader: "That's nice, but really, I mean, we should consider something, maybe at least 50% fort, some DR, or at least some PRR to help us in this fight, perhaps even some cure wands and potions, even a few resist items to cut down on the damage effect of their weapons, after all, one these guys just killed everyone in house Dun'Robar"

Weapons Master: "Nope, I got 10K HP, I'm good"

...and people wonder why this game is a cake walk.

[Ungood]

Protecting their own interest. slay the mage who is develloping this new heavy fort thing before he finishes it..

All joking asside, when you play a video game that allows for the occasional damage spike, you might get that wauw feeling. You and that ogre are hacking away at each other in the waterworks, both at 10% of your life and then it hapends, a crit with carnifex, bam, a whoppen 150 damage, you win the fight. a close call is all you need to get the adreneline going.

There are plenty of constructs, undead and plants around to annoy us, making everything 20+ immune to crits would turn it all into generic gray paste and remove one of the last few reasons to play them.

I rather have full fort only for full plate/adam body, not for robe wearing toons.

I'll be honest, I was rather taken aback at how easy heavy fort was to acquire when I first started playing, it was like "This negates all critical, and it drops like candy.. for real?"

Personally, I always felt that Heavy fort was way too powerful for how easy it was to get, and that it should have been reserved to ultra-rare raid items to have such an ability.

But then again, as others have pointed out, Ebberon is ridiculously Monty Haul.

But still, if that is the way it goes, it should go that way in both directions, if it's easy for us to get, then it should be easy for the mobs to have.

Can you imagine how silly this sounds for the leader of the devil army, tasked with waging war on Ebberon, where they will have to fight wizard and warrior, eladren and human alike, and they are like "Heavy fort and some resist items?.. Nahhhh, I have plenty of HP"

[Teh_Troll]

right.. I can see it now.

Army Leader: "Weapons master, these adventures we keep facing have this item on. that protects them from critical hits, we should consider doing the same, given we plan to wage war an entire city of these people"

Weapon Master: "Nahh, my 10K HP will protect me"

Army Leader: "That's nice, but really, I mean, we should consider something, maybe at least 50% fort, some DR, or at least some PRR to help us in this fight, perhaps even some cure wands and potions, even a few resist items to cut down on the damage effect of their weapons, after all, one these guys just killed everyone in house Dun'Robar"

Weapons Master: "Nope, I got 10K HP, I'm good"

...and people wonder why this game is a cake walk.

Your arguments are bad enough to put you on the ignore list, I suggest the rest of my minions do the same as you add no value to any conversation.

[Xaxx]

I'll be honest, I was rather taken aback at how easy heavy fort was to acquire when I first started playing, it was like "This negates all critical, and it drops like candy.. for real?"

Personally, I always felt that Heavy fort was way too powerful for how easy it was to get, and that it should have been reserved to ultra-rare raid items to have such an ability.

But then again, as others have pointed out, Ebberon is ridiculously Monty Haul.

But still, if that is the way it goes, it should go that way in both directions, if it's easy for us to get, then it should be easy for the mobs to have.

Can you imagine how silly this sounds for the leader of the devil army, tasked with waging war on Ebberon, where they will have to fight wizard and warrior, eladren and human alike, and they are like "Heavy fort and some resist items?.. Nahhhh, I have plenty of HP"

Hmm... a f2per talking about oh my god loots always been so easy to get.... not in the beginning it wasn't.. not remotely close.

That's just an irritant to me...

As for the couple of you saying about monsters and loot.... there isn't a city full of heros.... oh yes its an mmo so there is.... but everyone's playing the story. In the story there is only you or a few of you. Read the dialogs, listen to the npcs... *they refer to you as sun-saint and hero*..... not *you hear them call every 2nd guy sun-saint and hero*.... way to common a misconception about the story in mmos for a lot of people... remember its an rpg... YOU are supposed to be the hero.... in dragon age you are the hero, in skyrim you are the dragonborn... etc etc etc on down the line in rpgs... your just playing an rpg with some other people hanging around......

You don't think the npcs go get captured by the same guys for the next guy I line do you? OH well they averted the war by killing 15000 of us.... ok get 15000 more and a big ice fortress so the next guy can do it again. You are there for your story, you are the hero of the city, the worlds... If you never played pnp you wont understand... but you have to separate what you as a player knows rom what you as a player know. Its a fundamental separation in any pen and paper game.... an mmo is no different in that you must separate what you the player know (there's a hundred of us out here) versus what your character knows (im out to save the world, those couple of ba's ive met at the inn before might be able to help me save the whatsit from Duke Howsyourdaddy*

Its a big part of the story telling that goes into any mmo out there. If you forget that, then you probably shouldn't be complaining about the properties and distinctions in story lines and character events or npc motivations.

Wow I cant believe I actually had to just explain story breakdown and knowledge partition to anyone playing a game that's 8 years old.....

[Powerhungry]

If THF needs some love to bring it on par with the TWF for the new Thunder-forged items, allow 2-H weapons to have an additional slot- tier 4.
A player could choose to put in any of the tier 1-3 abilities or a tier 4 only ability.
Tier 4 options that come to mind -
1. Any ability from tiers 1-3
2. +1w and +1 critical multiplier
3. expanded critical range
4. cast 'ruin' on crit (no save)
5 True vorpal (no hp limit, no save) - does not work on red/purple-named bosses. Instead they take 10,000 untyped damage (no save)
Just a few ideas - obviously more choices can be added

ps. since hand-wraps take both hand slots, they are 2-H weapons for tier 4 availability (yes, I have a hand-wrap melee monk)

[Nightmanis]

If THF needs some love to bring it on par with the TWF for the new Thunder-forged items, allow 2-H weapons to have an additional slot- tier 4.
A player could choose to put in any of the tier 1-3 abilities or a tier 4 only ability.
Tier 4 options that come to mind -
1. Any ability from tiers 1-3
2. +1w and +1 critical multiplier
3. expanded critical range
4. cast 'ruin' on crit (no save)
5 True vorpal (no hp limit, no save) - does not work on red/purple-named bosses. Instead they take 10,000 untyped damage (no save)
Just a few ideas - obviously more choices can be added

ps. since hand-wraps take both hand slots, they are 2-H weapons for tier 4 availability (yes, I have a hand-wrap melee monk)

I don't really see THF getting the short end of the stick here. They still have 3 of the most powerful weapons in the game (ESOS, Sireth, and Cleaver) and none of them complain about needing more "Love" apart from wanting something better than the ESOS. That bonus to crit multi and [w] stupid powerful when you start actually looking at the weapon stats.

[Ungood]

Hmm... a f2per talking about oh my god loots always been so easy to get.... not in the beginning it wasn't.. not remotely close.

That's just an irritant to me...

LOL, you mean when the level cap was 10, and the ML for heavy fort was 11, Oh I am sure it was a tad hard to get. ;)


As for the couple of you saying about monsters and loot.... there isn't a city full of heros.... oh yes its an mmo so there is.... but everyone's playing the story. In the story there is only you or a few of you. Read the dialogs, listen to the npcs... *they refer to you as sun-saint and hero*..... not *you hear them call every 2nd guy sun-saint and hero*.... way to common a misconception about the story in mmos for a lot of people... remember its an rpg... YOU are supposed to be the hero.... in dragon age you are the hero, in skyrim you are the dragonborn... etc etc etc on down the line in rpgs... your just playing an rpg with some other people hanging around......

I see, you don't read the dialogue.

Most quests build upon each other, for example, if you paid any attention at all to the Shroud, you would know that the rift in the Vale of twilight was caused by a Lich trying to ascend to godhhod and failing.

Ok, so, we get the idea there are OTHER hero's in this game, because even if you never ran Abbot, you get that little story bit. Same with Reavers. And don't get started on quest arc's, where you know, you just destroyed their temple,or 50 of their friends to get to step two, and they have not learned a single thing since the last time you came plowing through, you know, to prep up, to get things ready, maybe set some additonal traps.. Nope.. nothing..

In Tangelroot you stomp the same dungeon like 6 times, and no one catches a clue to be more prepared for your arrival, nope, no resists, no maybe get some Humanoid bane, for that bugger if they come back, nope.. nothing. Just as flatted footed as ever.

In Sorrowdusk, it's even mentioned they will be expecting you and that is why you need to take the side entrance, and.. lo.. nope, not prepared at all.

In the major city battle in Evening Star, the Drow know that a hero (or hero's) from another world have come though the rift, remember, you killed a few of them on the way over.

So, if you have been reading the text, by the time you get to CitW, you're expected, but they are still unprepared to deal with you.. really?

And lets not forget your arrival to Dreaming Dark, where they talk about what you have done, (if you have done anything), you know they have been watching you, they should already know what you can do.


Wow I cant believe I actually had to just explain story breakdown and knowledge partition to anyone playing a game that's 8 years old.....

I can't believe you failed so hard after playing it for 8 years, next time you want to discuss flavor text, read it first.

[Ungood]

Your arguments are bad enough to put you on the ignore list, I suggest the rest of my minions do the same as you add no value to any conversation.

eh.. no more or less pointless then the "Hjeals Meh" meme you keep struggling to keep alive.

[Xaxx]

LOL, you mean when the level cap was 10, and the ML for heavy fort was 11, Oh I am sure it was a tad hard to get. ;)



I see, you don't read the dialogue.

Most quests build upon each other, for example, if you paid any attention at all to the Shroud, you would know that the rift in the Vale of twilight was caused by a Lich trying to ascend to godhhod and failing.

Ok, so, we get the idea there are OTHER hero's in this game, because even if you never ran Abbot, you get that little story bit. Same with Reavers. And don't get started on quest arc's, where you know, you just destroyed their temple,or 50 of their friends to get to step two, and they have not learned a single thing since the last time you came plowing through, you know, to prep up, to get things ready, maybe set some additonal traps.. Nope.. nothing..

In Tangelroot you stomp the same dungeon like 6 times, and no one catches a clue to be more prepared for your arrival, nope, no resists, no maybe get some Humanoid bane, for that bugger if they come back, nope.. nothing. Just as flatted footed as ever.

In Sorrowdusk, it's even mentioned they will be expecting you and that is why you need to take the side entrance, and.. lo.. nope, not prepared at all.

In the major city battle in Evening Star, the Drow know that a hero (or hero's) from another world have come though the rift, remember, you killed a few of them on the way over.

So, if you have been reading the text, by the time you get to CitW, you're expected, but they are still unprepared to deal with you.. really?

And lets not forget your arrival to Dreaming Dark, where they talk about what you have done, (if you have done anything), you know they have been watching you, they should already know what you can do.



I can't believe you failed so hard after playing it for 8 years, next time you want to discuss flavor text, read it first.

Hmm lets see where shall I start out at....

lets see heavy fort level 11.. oh yes get +'s and levels haven't changed at all over the years this game has been around hmm???. you know the first widely available heavy fort item was the nightforged gorgut... and just to really cheese you off fort items were here IN THE BEGINING....

As for story.... well heres how this workds.... abbot was module 5.. shroud was module 6... the story continued and if... oh I don't know... you actually played the game back then.. you logically would have done abbot in the time that it was out, and then shroud later in the time it was out.... the story was told in chronological order.. you come along later, long after they're fresh content and the story line has passed by them, and think that because you weren't here at the time the story line doesn't make sense because you didn't play abbot....

news flash for ya there sonny jim.... the story in ddo has been told as an evolving continuing tale since it first started.... if you jump in late and weren't here for that part of the story line... well that aint my problem.... but its yours for assuming the way you are.


Tangleroot... they bring out whisperdooms offspring, they bring out the casters and the slayers... so they do progress in ready status... not as dynamic as it could be.... but unless its a 7 part thing of one quest... well not gonna happen like that... and while the game has evolved tech for that, it wasn't there back at launch so umm... yeah you bit off the wrong piece of wood there to sparky....

Sorrowdusk same difference...

Drow... a couple of people they thought were escaped slaves came through the underdark and wooped em... yo are assuming the drow command structure is that one group who let some *slaves* get away or let some humans defeat them would be news they would share with other drow... you know nothing about fr drow do you????? If you did you would realize how utterly trivial your argument is... and the one time we would be expected.... lolths champions are waiting for us.... and oh yes lolth herself has plenty of stuff waiting for us.... but being the melomaniacal goddess that she is thinks shes enough to take care of the people that banded together to go in. Lolth is prepared.... in the typical lolth way.

Dreaming dark... yeah you notice the part where your in the amphitheater and the shades go *not xx who did this* *not xxx who did that* and those shades RUN THE HECK AWAY.... that sounds like they set a trap.... then finding out who you REALLY are said heck no we're out.... nope not prepared at all... actually prepared with an ambush... and then scared brownless when you show...

Failed hard.... wow you keep deluding yourself there junior about what you THINK you know about the games storyline.... because when all is all and sundry have a look around and compare whats said... .. well you live up to your name there junior.

You think you know the game, you think your a voice of the game... LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL... get off the high horse and don't pick an argument when you don't know what your talkin about because someone like me will come along and ruin your day.

Pick apart what I said all you want... you cant argue with whats stated above, its not opinion... its the game. I been here on and off since this thing launched sonny jim... I'm the wrong guy to argue with on game history. Do me a favor, quote that and add it to your bio... and look at it every time your about to make an uninformed or opinionated post that you cant back up 100% with experience.

I'm done with this quote counter quote, I've made my statements, I've backed em up with whats in the game and timeline in game.... fouth round ko on you there sonny jim.

[Xaxx]

If THF needs some love to bring it on par with the TWF for the new Thunder-forged items, allow 2-H weapons to have an additional slot- tier 4.
A player could choose to put in any of the tier 1-3 abilities or a tier 4 only ability.
Tier 4 options that come to mind -
1. Any ability from tiers 1-3
2. +1w and +1 critical multiplier
3. expanded critical range
4. cast 'ruin' on crit (no save)
5 True vorpal (no hp limit, no save) - does not work on red/purple-named bosses. Instead they take 10,000 untyped damage (no save)
Just a few ideas - obviously more choices can be added

ps. since hand-wraps take both hand slots, they are 2-H weapons for tier 4 availability (yes, I have a hand-wrap melee monk)

Why.. you know the differences when you make the choic of twf versus thf in the way it works and what costs are established with each. Is one one handed weapon as powerful as one two handed weapon... no.... so should someone wilding a 1 handed weapon and a shield have a setbonus with any shield in the game??

It doesn't cost any more than a 1 hander yet you want them to be more powerful than one handers.. (which they are by general stats) but yet care nothing for the cost of two one handers versus 1 twohander.. or the feats ivolved... or glancing blows or yada yada.... just *my playtoy isn't as good as it used to be with these weapons... gimme gimme*

What happens if when the sentient weapons show, theres one two hander to rule them all... and they I don't know... do something to two handers to make them more balanced... and that change or crafting ability jakes that two hander so much more powerful that the thf devotee's just say HAHA twf sucks.... and that HAS happened before... do they then nerf thf... and we get to listen to these same people say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....thf versus twf power balance ebbs and flows over the years.... in the days of the half orc being new it was thf... in the early days of esos it was thf... in.... well I can go on and on about thf's *days* *don't get me started on twitching or for 1handed trip attack spamming* Right now one will be more dominant than the other.... and in 6 months that cold all change suddenly.

[Wipey]

Personally I'm probably going for one Warhammer with the 35% fort bypass and regenerating action boost thing. And keeping Mornh in the other hand for set bonus, seeker and more crit range.
Must be better option, I doubt it will stack with 20 from black.
Test yourself in Pit maybe but at least 20 black and 15 from Fot shortsword or 10 Envenomed Blade doesn't seem to stack.

Or maybe we'll ditch the black for something else finally.

[Cantor]

I was really excited when FoT came out because I felt they finally got this right. It drops fully upgraded on EE, but others can get it over time without running EE. I thought it was going to be the norm from then on. I'd like to see all N/H/E items retroactively go to a similar system, even if the grind is painful on hard, insane on normal.

[Ungood]

Hmm lets see where shall I start out at....

lets see heavy fort level 11.. oh yes get +'s and levels haven't changed at all over the years this game has been around hmm???. you know the first widely available heavy fort item was the nightforged gorgut... and just to really cheese you off fort items were here IN THE BEGINING....

and this would cheese me off why?

Yah, I could see that as fair, that quest was difficult at level, Drugar tend to hit hard for a new player, so a reasonable challenge, but I still think it should have been closer to a 1% drop rate out of Tempest Spine, as opposed to a guaranteed trade in.


As for story.... well heres how this workds.... abbot was module 5.. shroud was module 6... the story continued and if... oh I don't know... you actually played the game back then.. you logically would have done abbot in the time that it was out, and then shroud later in the time it was out.... the story was told in chronological order.. you come along later, long after they're fresh content and the story line has passed by them, and think that because you weren't here at the time the story line doesn't make sense because you didn't play abbot....

Logically you *MAY* have done, but you did not *HAVE* to have done. If you did, or did not do it, it got done, by someone. If that was with you (and obviously some others, who may or may not be the same people you will do shroud with), that makes it pretty clear, there is more then -Just You- as the hero in this game.

In fact, you should love this.. remember clearing the air.. "Don't go down without friends". Pretty painfully clear.. You're not the only hero in StromReach kiddo, and I think that was Day 1 too.

Now I could carry on, about how time and time and time again, it gets shown that you're not the lone hero, that you're not the chosen one, that you and many others are in some respects just pair arms no better or worse then the last few people they talked to.

Like in Necro for example, with so many giving the response "Oh look you did it" and expect you to just disregard the hundreds of bodies on the ground of the Hero's before you that didn't do it.

It's painfully clear that this city is full of "Adventures" trying to crave out their name in the history books, notice "Butchers Path" is just a challenge, you did it.. you're not alone, you're not the first, you won't be the last.

Same with Scoundrels Run. Yah, you did it.. when many others failed, and now many more will try.. thanks!

The game is full of that. It's very clear in DDO, you're not the lone hero here.


news flash for ya there sonny jim.... the story in ddo has been told as an evolving continuing tale since it first started.... if you jump in late and weren't here for that part of the story line... well that aint my problem.... but its yours for assuming the way you are.

Someone did it, which proves is my whole point, there are more Hero's in this game, then just you 'sonny jim'


Tangleroot... they bring out whisperdooms offspring, they bring out the casters and the slayers... so they do progress in ready status... not as dynamic as it could be.... but unless its a 7 part thing of one quest... well not gonna happen like that... and while the game has evolved tech for that, it wasn't there back at launch so umm... yeah you bit off the wrong piece of wood there to sparky....

They don't bring out anything 'sparky' you go in after those targets. They just stand around going "Oh no we are being attacked" not even an "again" like you were not there just 5 min before, busting their heads in. No prep, no resists, no nothing, I mean you would think the survivors would you know.. Prep for another assault.


Drow... a couple of people they thought were escaped slaves came through the underdark and wooped em... yo are assuming the drow command structure is that one group who let some *slaves* get away or let some humans defeat them would be news they would share with other drow... you know nothing about fr drow do you?????

Lets see.. a group of oddly dressed adventures comes crashing though a daemon web portal from the WRONG side, and free a pack of slaves, in the process killing several guards and scouts in the Under dark, as well as a high ranking Female Weapon Master, If you read any FR books on drow you would know that kind of intel would go straight to the 1st matron, and EVERY other matron would know about it, within the passing of the day.


If you did you would realize how utterly trivial your argument is

Actually I am learning how little you really know on the subject you have chosen to debate on.


and oh yes lolth herself has plenty of stuff waiting for us.... but being the melomaniacal goddess that she is thinks shes enough to take care of the people that banded together to go in. Lolth is prepared.... in the typical lolth way.

If you have read anything on Lolath, she does not play fair, She rules by Fear, as such she would know our greatest fears, our weakness, and made sure our best abilities were laughed off by her minions as a show of her power.


Dreaming dark... yeah you notice the part where your in the amphitheater and the shades go *not xx who did this* *not xxx who did that* and those shades RUN THE HECK AWAY.... that sounds like they set a trap.... then finding out who you REALLY are said heck no we're out.... nope not prepared at all... actually prepared with an ambush... and then scared brownless when you show...

Oh good, one you noticed. Did you also notice, they call you by NAME, each of you? As opposed to "Aren't those that..." That meaning, they already know there are many hero's of Ebebron, you are the one that did these things.. as opposed to those other things.. Keep the Dream Alive.


I'm done with this quote counter quote, I've made my statements, I've backed em up with whats in the game and timeline in game.... fouth round ko on you there sonny jim.

Probably for the best, as the saying goes, Quit while you're behind.

All you have done so far is shown how little you know about what you have opted to talk about.

To close on a positive note however:


well you live up to your name

My namesake is a homage to one of the greatest Science Fiction writers of their era, and a notation to what was considered one of their most thought provoking works involving social political movements. So if I am living up to that name, I am honored. Thank you.

In return for such a novel proclamation on your part, allow me to say in return you are living up to your namesake as well, however, Xaxx, is meaningless, pointless, string of letters, that has zero merit or meaning behind it.

[Xaxx]

Thanks for proving that I'm right there again sonny jim... your opinion isn't fact, please stop spouting it as. Nothing you've said in your OPINIONS have dislodged any of the FACTS I laid out. I know your gonna wanna blah blah blah some more to make yourself feel better... but theres no point... ko in the 4th round.

Now that we've put the amateur wannabe troll back in his place, lets get back to our opinions and a few facts about this crafting system.

[Ungood]

Thanks for proving that I'm right there again sonny jim... your opinion isn't fact, please stop spouting it as. Nothing you've said in your OPINIONS have dislodged any of the FACTS I laid out. I know your gonna wanna blah blah blah some more to make yourself feel better... but theres no point... ko in the 4th round.

Now that we've put the amateur wannabe troll back in his place, lets get back to our opinions and a few facts about this crafting system.

Yes, please, lets get back to discussing this new raid and items again, I am going to need something thought provoking and informative to revitalize the brain cells that just shriveled reading the idiocy of the above post.

[IronClan]

Thanks for proving that I'm right there again sonny jim... your opinion isn't fact, please stop spouting it as. Nothing you've said in your OPINIONS have dislodged any of the FACTS I laid out. I know your gonna wanna blah blah blah some more to make yourself feel better... but theres no point... ko in the 4th round.

Now that we've put the amateur wannabe troll back in his place, lets get back to our opinions and a few facts about this crafting system.

I don't have a dog in this fight, and let's do get back to this new crafting system, but there is a "hall of heroes" (plural) and the game very much does make it clear, as does 40 years of D&D modules that there are lots of adventurers and heroes in every setting, you should probably stop now.

[lyrecono]

so back on topic, Doc? any news/changes etc?

[Eth]

Must be better option, I doubt it will stack with 20 from black.
Test yourself in Pit maybe but at least 20 black and 15 from Fot shortsword or 10 Envenomed Blade doesn't seem to stack.

Or maybe we'll ditch the black for something else finally.

Things from weapons and items used to stack.
Anyway, I want that new armor :) So no 20% from Blackscale.

[Ungood]

Things from weapons and items used to stack.
Anyway, I want that new armor :) So no 20% from Blackscale.

Only some things.

Like for example, potency on an item did not stack with potency on a weapon, Seeker from a Blood Stone, never stacked with Seeker on a Weapon, to my knowledge.

There is not a lot of overlap, but in the places there were, it was always kind of hit or miss if something was going to stack or not.

[Oxarhamar]

Only some things.

Like for example, potency on an item did not stack with potency on a weapon, Seeker from a Blood Stone, never stacked with Seeker on a Weapon, to my knowledge.

There is not a lot of overlap, but in the places there were, it was always kind of hit or miss if something was going to stack or not.

Eth was specifically referring to Armor piecing which does stack depending on the source. Its too soon to say if the weapons will stack until its tested.

They use to stack the same way exception skill use to stack. Different bonuses stacked but, who knows anymore until its tested.

[HuneyMunster]

And they are totally useless in the Double Dragons raid as almost everything is red named. Even in the wilderness most of the monsters are skeletons.....

In the wilderness area at least PMs have Undeath to Death as well as a few other undead spells and elemental spells to fall back on. My assassin rogue gonna feel quite useless against most monsters there.

[Hathorian]

In the wilderness area at least PMs have Undeath to Death as well as a few other undead spells and elemental spells to fall back on. My assassin rogue gonna feel quite useless against most monsters there.

So they can cast undeath to death every 22-30 seconds. Yeah.

Why dont you invest in some fort bypass gear, ED, enhancements? There is no reason for a melee not to be able crit undead in epics anymore. It is easy to get over 50% fort bypass.

[barecm]

I do like the overall idea of the new crafting system. One thing that stands out to me is the same when I think about Alchemical. Very cool procs, very underwhelming base damage. I am not sure I can replace the DPS from CiTW weapons, with mostly expanded crit ranges, for this. I would make Tier 3 gain +1 to crit range, not keen or something that doesn't stack with IC or OC, but an acutal +1 to crit range base.

[Ungood]

Eth was specifically referring to Armor piecing which does stack depending on the source. Its too soon to say if the weapons will stack until its tested.

They use to stack the same way exception skill use to stack. Different bonuses stacked but, who knows anymore until its tested.

I know what they were referring to, I was just pointing out that effects from weapons and items, don;t really follow a sound formula as to if they will or will not stack. Case in point, GS Con-Op, item and GS-Con-Op weapon stack, but, I recall a dev saying this was not intended, it's just this way because they have not gotten around to fixing it yet, as it's not a high priority.

So, with things stacking, no matter what it is.. it's a guess situation.. it may stack, it may not stack, it may stack this update, and not the next, but go back to stacking the update after that.

I was just commenting on that aspect of loot in this game.

[Nibor]

Things from weapons and items used to stack.
Anyway, I want that new armor :) So no 20% from Blackscale.

Armor-piercing stopped stacking at different values a long time ago - I'm not sure when, but at least as of epic gianthold. You can see the conflict in the effects log when you equip multiple items now. Rebellion, Black Dragonscale, Flawless Black Dragonscale, Envenomed Blade, and their upgraded versions, none of it stacks on live and hasn't in a while. I assume it's working as intended.

[Nibor]

In the wilderness area at least PMs have Undeath to Death as well as a few other undead spells and elemental spells to fall back on. My assassin rogue gonna feel quite useless against most monsters there.

I strongly recommend Shadowdancer ED - the top autogrant removing immunity to sneak attack on vorpal is amazing. Zombies, plants, constructs, whatever - you start swinging, you roll a 20 and then bam the HPs just start melting away.

[Fhauvial]

Do the Negative Energy effects heal undead? If so, wouldn't that mean these weapons are going to be sub-par in BOTH of the new raids?

[Ungood]

Do the Negative Energy effects heal undead? If so, wouldn't that mean these weapons are going to be sub-par in BOTH of the new raids?

I have noticed as of late, they do not.

It used to be my PM aura healed other Undead, but that has not been the case recently. Not sure if that helps you or not, but you have a point, the negative energy won't hurt them either and I would wager that it won't hurt Constructs either.

But then again, I get the feeling that these weapons are not designed to be the have all, end all, of every weapon in the game.

[IronClan]

So hey Dr. Oct can we get a word on why you guys are abandoning weapons that were just recently given buffs and enticements via the new enhancements?

Throwers, Shuriken, a few "deity weapons" a couple racial preference weapons, and the Rogue Mechanic supported light repeater, are all missing.

Dragon's edge is straight up broken and the clear cut choice at tier 2 for every melee in the game. But that's not the worst thing, it also makes Khopesh, Rapier and Falchion the defacto standard (again). You probably don't know this Mr. Octothorpe but there was a bad old time in DDO's history when these weapons were the only ones non flavor builds used... This was because the game emphasized a couple "on crit" procs without factoring in crit Multiplier, making Axes (that have a terrible 5% crit range) and such a "flavor choice" and everything else a "gimp choice". You're repeating/reintroducing this same mistake with the new system by having a wholly over powered on crit proc that everyone will want, and not offering any scaling (such as "burst" or Heartseeker type affixes) for weapons that have a poor crit range but a nice multiplier.

Players can spot this stuff a mile away, you should try to trust us, no offense but those 5% on hit procs with 50 save DC's will be chuckled at and then forever ignored by almost every melee that can add 3 digit integers together. Dragon's Edge isn't just the best choice, it's the "screaming at you like R Lee Ermy calling you an idiot if you don't take it choice".

If on the other hand "Dragons edge" was instead a choice of Heartseeker (or Ribcracker/Bloodletter as appropriate) which scale with multiplier (as these affixes already do) this massively lop sided emphasis on Crit range over multiplier would be mitigated somewhat. The 35% armor piercing should be a choice by itself, and certainly not included in an amazingly OP bleeding on crit proc.

Sadly communication seems to have dropped off since shortly before Producer Rowan left, the PC forum is nothing but chirping crickets. If you could address just these two points then I think this system will be much better for it...

[Eth]

Do the Negative Energy effects heal undead? If so, wouldn't that mean these weapons are going to be sub-par in BOTH of the new raids?

The negative damage effects are mainly useless in the shadow dragon raid, while the fire damage effects are mainly useless in the double dragon raid.
Nice, isn't it?

[EllisDee37]

the negative energy won't hurt [undead] and I would wager that it won't hurt Constructs either.Oddly, and happily, negative energy does hurt mechanical dogs. I love using necrotic ray on them even though they're immune to level drain.

[Xaxx]

So hey Dr. Oct can we get a word on why you guys are abandoning weapons that were just recently given buffs and enticements via the new enhancements?

Throwers, Shuriken, a few "deity weapons" a couple racial preference weapons, and the Rogue Mechanic supported light repeater, are all missing.

Dragon's edge is straight up broken and the clear cut choice at tier 2 for every melee in the game. But that's not the worst thing, it also makes Khopesh, Rapier and Falchion the defacto standard (again). You probably don't know this Mr. Octothorpe but there was a bad old time in DDO's history when these weapons were the only ones non flavor builds used... This was because the game emphasized a couple "on crit" procs without factoring in crit Multiplier, making Axes (that have a terrible 5% crit range) and such a "flavor choice" and everything else a "gimp choice". You're repeating/reintroducing this same mistake with the new system by having a wholly over powered on crit proc that everyone will want, and not offering any scaling (such as "burst" or Heartseeker type affixes) for weapons that have a poor crit range but a nice multiplier.

Players can spot this stuff a mile away, you should try to trust us, no offense but those 5% on hit procs with 50 save DC's will be chuckled at and then forever ignored by almost every melee that can add 3 digit integers together. Dragon's Edge isn't just the best choice, it's the "screaming at you like R Lee Ermy calling you an idiot if you don't take it choice".



Well I'd have to say someone missed a dev comment, all weapons were supposed to be added, I checked and throwing weapons were added, I dindt scan through the entire list but it looks like they were... they dc effects are mostly gone as per what the dev said, and in checking effects the only ones with a dc still active are the couple 5% chance for big fireball or negative damage Dragons edge is not the clear cut omg I will ONLY take this choice.. depending on what you want to make what your fighting and gear setup will all play a part into that. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that since you couldn't even keep up with the development of the weapons either... or even be bothered to check the new lam build to see what changes were made before posting a rant about the weapons 4 days after changes were made...... hmm

As for the mythical age of ONLY KOP RAP AND FALCH...... what you smoking dude? Those were the ONLY weapons used outside of flavor builds..... really? Great axe was ALWAYS more popular than falchion.. going back to shroud and beyond.... while kop was the dominant weapon, it was not the only one used nor was rapier not by a mile and not only by flavor builds or newbs.... I love the overstatement as stated fact in stuff like this.

Was kop the most used weapon for twf.. yes.... was rapier the most used piercing weapon..... yes but often paired with short sword in those days for off hand negative modification (still leaves people using double rapiers today... but you spoke of the old times so please be clear on things) ..... Was falchion ever the dominant two hander... NO... filch ga and gs split that pretty evenly evenly in the days of greensteel and alchemical...

AS for walking away from the weapons they just added stuff for... an assassin will choose dagers over rapiers in this system... it may be worth it to creat a twf mainly rogue based character to use that for pairs of these daggers... the math looks... interesting..

A lot of these weapons will still be used, and outperform kops and rapiers on anything but a centered kensai.... before I get the centered kensai complains... guys.. .. there will ALWAYS be a build combination that people will see as over powered and people will flock to... and other people will see it and yell NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRFFFFFFF.... this has always and will always be the way of ddo... the way of the min maxer in a game with character customization.... eventually nerfs will come or weaons will change or a system will change and a new power will arraise... and people will scream to nerf it also.....

Either way... will kops be dominant once again....... in general yeah centered kop kensais will be... one of the more common builds you'll come across

[Ungood]

Oddly, and happily, negative energy does hurt mechanical dogs. I love using necrotic ray on them even though they're immune to level drain.

Good to know, Now I am thinking that I really should run some tests in House C, and see how other constructs hold up against negative energy, or if anyone else would like to do the same.

[J-mann]

Well I'd have to say someone missed a dev comment, all weapons were supposed to be added, I checked and throwing weapons were added, I dindt scan through the entire list but it looks like they were... they dc effects are mostly gone as per what the dev said, and in checking effects the only ones with a dc still active are the couple 5% chance for big fireball or negative damage Dragons edge is not the clear cut omg I will ONLY take this choice.. depending on what you want to make what your fighting and gear setup will all play a part into that. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that since you couldn't even keep up with the development of the weapons either... or even be bothered to check the new lam build to see what changes were made before posting a rant about the weapons 4 days after changes were made...... hmm

As for the mythical age of ONLY KOP RAP AND FALCH...... what you smoking dude? Those were the ONLY weapons used outside of flavor builds..... really? Great axe was ALWAYS more popular than falchion.. going back to shroud and beyond.... while kop was the dominant weapon, it was not the only one used nor was rapier not by a mile and not only by flavor builds or newbs.... I love the overstatement as stated fact in stuff like this.

Was kop the most used weapon for twf.. yes.... was rapier the most used piercing weapon..... yes but often paired with short sword in those days for off hand negative modification (still leaves people using double rapiers today... but you spoke of the old times so please be clear on things) ..... Was falchion ever the dominant two hander... NO... filch ga and gs split that pretty evenly evenly in the days of greensteel and alchemical...

AS for walking away from the weapons they just added stuff for... an assassin will choose dagers over rapiers in this system... it may be worth it to creat a twf mainly rogue based character to use that for pairs of these daggers... the math looks... interesting..

A lot of these weapons will still be used, and outperform kops and rapiers on anything but a centered kensai.... before I get the centered kensai complains... guys.. .. there will ALWAYS be a build combination that people will see as over powered and people will flock to... and other people will see it and yell NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRFFFFFFF.... this has always and will always be the way of ddo... the way of the min maxer in a game with character customization.... eventually nerfs will come or weaons will change or a system will change and a new power will arraise... and people will scream to nerf it also.....

Either way... will kops be dominant once again....... in general yeah centered kop kensais will be... one of the more common builds you'll come across

Wow... Im not sure how hard this is to understand, but under the current proposed system 2wf with kopeshes/raipiers will be so far ahead of the pack it wont even be funny. In fact 2wf will be so far ahead of 2hers its pretty funny as well. What he is asking for is something to balance this factor out. Being able to slot the dragons edge and a dps tier 2 is huge. You are right that certain builds will still use different weapons (as you pointed out assassins), but for the majority that dont get VERY big bonuses to certain weapons (even then.... not sure if the new qstaff is better than serith for stick builds) they will be pigeon holed into those weapons. Its not difficult to comprehend, we want balance and choices in our weapons, and you apparently do not (seems because you hold some weird grudge over the existence of ESoS).

[Xaxx]

Wow... Im not sure how hard this is to understand, but under the current proposed system 2wf with kopeshes/raipiers will be so far ahead of the pack it wont even be funny. In fact 2wf will be so far ahead of 2hers its pretty funny as well. What he is asking for is something to balance this factor out. Being able to slot the dragons edge and a dps tier 2 is huge. You are right that certain builds will still use different weapons (as you pointed out assassins), but for the majority that dont get VERY big bonuses to certain weapons (even then.... not sure if the new qstaff is better than serith for stick builds) they will be pigeon holed into those weapons. Its not difficult to comprehend, we want balance and choices in our weapons, and you apparently do not (seems because you hold some weird grudge over the existence of ESoS).

Its easy to understand.... you want your cake and to eat it to......

Sorry I've been around this game for to long to forget like some of you have that the view of whats op and what isn't changes quite often... for a long time people said 2hf was the best so why should anyone go twf... matter of fact I remember a lot of people of those days poking fun of twf builds.... yet here we are today... when tempest was first introduced....twf was the stuff.... and people started to splash 6 ranger in a lot of builds... and some people complained, some were just told to shut up... this was before the time mentioned above... and yet here we are today....

Its quite simple really.... if you know so much about the game then you KNEW what the differences were in the combat styles when you CHOSE 2hf over twf or sword and board... YOU CHOSE THAT.... now you demand that what you CHOSE be made better just because your panties are in a bunch.... and yet no one will answer my question of what happens when theres a different system put into place or something like that and thf rises to prominence again.... will you guys be the first ones in line saying hey remember those changes we got... its time to remove them, yeah we don't need them any more they're to powerful... or will you be the ones on the forums going woohoo look at my numbers cause im 2hf and your not...

Sorry guys eb and flow of game power is something all games deal with... you can either adjust to the tide... or get out of the way of the water till the tides low enough to step back into your comfort zone.....

As for having something against esos... I own 3 of em.... so take that for what you will.

[IronClan]

Its easy to understand.... you want your cake and to eat it to......

I don't think this means what you think it means.

He (and others) want the wide range of options that currently exist to not be regressed back to 2009 standards. You seem to be arguing for simplistic obviously optimal choices to return, not sure why you want this, or what your motivation is, but it doesn't seem to be "whats best for the game" or well thought out at any rate.



Sorry I've been around this game for to long to forget like some of you have that the view of whats op and what isn't changes quite often...

It does change, it's mostly changed for the better incrementally; With viable choices expanded due to enhancements and named weapons, prestige's in the old enhancements and the new. That's kinda the whole point of the issue, this new system puts an affix in that's so strong and so clearly favoring high crit range weapons and punishing high multiplier low range, that it sets thing back, at least at end game.

Most of the posters who have commented about this in this thread seems to understand how this works, maybe you should take our word for it instead of doing what you're doing... Being contrary because you are spoiling for an argument.

[Lurzifer]

First of i didnt read this whole thread because lets face it i have better things to do, so if im wrong please correct me.

I was looking forward to the new weapons, especially Qstaffs since my new build kinda evolves around those.

Now the new Qstaffs have:
4.5[1d6] 20x2

Oak Stick lvl 20 has:
2[2d6] 20x3

Of course the new one has some nice stuff going on the tiers and a better enhancement mod, but seriously if a f/(!)"§" lvl 20 stuick from a trader is comparable if not better dps in blitz, then well go F yourself new raid.

[Xaxx]

I don't think this means what you think it means.

He (and others) want the wide range of options that currently exist to not be regressed back to 2009 standards. You seem to be arguing for simplistic obviously optimal choices to return, not sure why you want this, or what your motivation is, but it doesn't seem to be "whats best for the game" or well thought out at any rate.



It does change, it's mostly changed for the better incrementally; With viable choices expanded due to enhancements and named weapons, prestige's in the old enhancements and the new. That's kinda the whole point of the issue, this new system puts an affix in that's so strong and so clearly favoring high crit range weapons and punishing high multiplier low range, that it sets thing back, at least at end game.

Most of the posters who have commented about this in this thread seems to understand how this works, maybe you should take our word for it instead of doing what you're doing... Being contrary because you are spoiling for an argument.

*looks at my join date... looks at your join date*... you really wanna discuss history of the game... and you guys go back and forth between one thing and the whole system.. I've made my points in the history of this game... except them or not... but either way I'd suggest you actually look over the history of the game at cap and builds and etc... because you guys really don't know it to well. State every opinion you want, I'll stick to the facts of how things have played out for 8 years.

[Folker]

Why do you keep putting in new crafting methods? There are WAY too many different crafting methods in the game already.

You do understand that it is much better to have one (maybe two) really good crafting methods rather than twelve so so crafting methods?

I am much more interested in a new dungeon.

[IBCrabin]

Why do you keep putting in new crafting methods? There are WAY too many different crafting methods in the game already.

You do understand that it is much better to have one (maybe two) really good crafting methods rather than twelve so so crafting methods?

I am much more interested in a new dungeon.

This system has some similarity to Green steel with a touch of alchemical crafting. Multiple tier of mats. Base weapon crafted from mats. The touch of alchemical comes from the different difficulty to get the different mats.

I can see why they would go with such a system. This helps standardized the customization of weapons rather than citw weapons where each upgrade provide a rigid and fixed modifier upgrade. The problem with greensteel type system is that certain weapons will come out ahead as many have pointed out.

If you have a weapon die of 1d10 on a staff Staff with a 4.5[w] that is quite a huge damage boost compared to other weapons So the way to control the huge power creep would be to use a 1d6 die instead. This is somewhat counterproductive in the sense that Sireth, Cleaver, Celestia, etc, will still be favor of choice for a lot people base on different reasons.

1. With all the attack sequence of, momentum swing, lay waste, cleave, great cleave, fist of iron, etc, you don't have as much benefit out of them for all the finger breaking action. 3[1d6] new staff vs 3[1d10] Sireth. Quite a big damage output difference.

2. Passive weapon dice multiplier is nerf - Improved power attack from Dreadnaught, dance of flower from Grandmaster of flower is less useful.

3. Set bonus

to name a few.

The good news is that, non citw weapons and less used weapons got a nice power up. Dwarvern axe, Khopeshes, Heavy repeating crossbow, dagger, kukri, etc.

They should have kept weapon dice the same as citw and make adjustments to the weapon dice multiplier to keep the damage within similar range. But this would probably required a lot more coding tailoring the weapon dice multiplier to each weapon.

Can't win them all, but this should extend the longevity of the raid. 1 item will probably take 15-20 runs to make, as a guess. Not sure what the drop rate is like for mats.

[oradafu]

First of i didnt read this whole thread because lets face it i have better things to do, so if im wrong please correct me.

I was looking forward to the new weapons, especially Qstaffs since my new build kinda evolves around those.

Now the new Qstaffs have:
4.5[1d6] 20x2

Oak Stick lvl 20 has:
2[2d6] 20x3

Of course the new one has some nice stuff going on the tiers and a better enhancement mod, but seriously if a f/(!)"§" lvl 20 stuick from a trader is comparable if not better dps in blitz, then well go F yourself new raid.

I said years ago that named weapons, especially for the weaker base weapons (such quarterstaves), should have a combination of higher hit dice, crit range or crit multiplier. For the new quarterstaves, it should at least be a 4.5[1d8] if not higher, even if the Devs are against increasing the crit profiles on weapons.

[Lurzifer]

I said years ago that named weapons, especially for the weaker base weapons (such quarterstaves), should have a combination of higher hit dice, crit range or crit multiplier. For the new quarterstaves, it should at least be a 4.5[1d8] if not higher, even if the Devs are against increasing the crit profiles on weapons.

1d8 is still a freakin joke, there is no incentive to run the raid for weapons unless youre making some greataxe, khopesh or dwarven axe build. For any other Weapon there is a better version already in the game. (not counting ****** weapons like monringstar, heavy mace etc)

Will just grab the new bracers and be done with the new raids, dissapointing to say the least.

[die]

1d8 is still a freakin joke, there is no incentive to run the raid for weapons unless youre making some greataxe, khopesh or dwarven axe build. For any other Weapon there is a better version already in the game. (not counting ****** weapons like monringstar, heavy mace etc)

Will just grab the new bracers and be done with the new raids, dissapointing to say the least.

Welcome to the new business Model "Disappointing to say the least "

[Lurzifer]

Just looked up the weapon chart on ddowiki (click here (http://ddowiki.com/page/Thunder_Forge/weapon_chart))

A normal Shortsword has a better base damage rating than the quarterstaff. There should be no 2hf Weapon with a lower base damage rating than a short sword. Seriously.

[Fhauvial]

I have noticed as of late, they do not.

It used to be my PM aura healed other Undead, but that has not been the case recently. Not sure if that helps you or not, but you have a point, the negative energy won't hurt them either and I would wager that it won't hurt Constructs either.

But then again, I get the feeling that these weapons are not designed to be the have all, end all, of every weapon in the game.

I've been running with dual Sacrificial Daggers lately until I can get my Agonies, and it seems they *do* heal undead. Negative energy does seem to work on most constructs.


The negative damage effects are mainly useless in the shadow dragon raid, while the fire damage effects are mainly useless in the double dragon raid.
Nice, isn't it?

Well that's silly.

[Ungood]

I've been running with dual Sacrificial Daggers lately until I can get my Agonies, and it seems they *do* heal undead. Negative energy does seem to work on most constructs.

That's good to know, thanks for the heads up.

[IronClan]

*looks at my join date... looks at your join date*... you really wanna discuss history of the game... and you guys go back and forth between one thing and the whole system.. I've made my points in the history of this game... except them or not... but either way I'd suggest you actually look over the history of the game at cap and builds and etc... because you guys really don't know it to well. State every opinion you want, I'll stick to the facts of how things have played out for 8 years.

Sorry but your join date is contradicted by the not very observational things you post. My join date is when I logged THAT account into the forums the first time. Regardless a person who joined 4 months ago who is observative and good at absorbing information could pwn your arguments, because you seem to just be floating random contradictions because you're spoiling for an argument after losing the last one to ungood so badly.

Now you've lost this one too... You should take something else up. There are good reasons to keep all the weapons viable choices instead of making a system that massively rewards a tiny subset of high crit range weapons; to the tune of 20% more 33-105 damage procs for one weapon type over another.

Perhaps the new loot Dev doesn't understand where the game was before and is thus not learning from history. Hopfully we can get through to him, there are a lot of people with various join dates posting in support of balancing the choices and weapon types better. Much like your observations of the games past, you seem to have missed a lot. You appear to be the single voice in the wind that sefishly wants his weapon choice to be up to 20% better than most other choices.

Is it shocking that there's someone on here who wants his rapier or khopesh to be the unquestioned best choice? No not shocking at all, there will always be poor souls who feel the need to laud their choice over others. But you should at least admit that your motivation is purely selfish instead of backwardly pretending people who want wider choices are the ones being selfish. At least then other selfish types will agree with you and help you to keep this system flawed in your favor. That is your goal is it not? To keep the system poorly balanced in your favor?

[J-mann]

Its easy to understand.... you want your cake and to eat it to......

Sorry I've been around this game for to long to forget like some of you have that the view of whats op and what isn't changes quite often... for a long time people said 2hf was the best so why should anyone go twf... matter of fact I remember a lot of people of those days poking fun of twf builds.... yet here we are today... when tempest was first introduced....twf was the stuff.... and people started to splash 6 ranger in a lot of builds... and some people complained, some were just told to shut up... this was before the time mentioned above... and yet here we are today....

Its quite simple really.... if you know so much about the game then you KNEW what the differences were in the combat styles when you CHOSE 2hf over twf or sword and board... YOU CHOSE THAT.... now you demand that what you CHOSE be made better just because your panties are in a bunch.... and yet no one will answer my question of what happens when theres a different system put into place or something like that and thf rises to prominence again.... will you guys be the first ones in line saying hey remember those changes we got... its time to remove them, yeah we don't need them any more they're to powerful... or will you be the ones on the forums going woohoo look at my numbers cause im 2hf and your not...

Sorry guys eb and flow of game power is something all games deal with... you can either adjust to the tide... or get out of the way of the water till the tides low enough to step back into your comfort zone.....

As for having something against esos... I own 3 of em.... so take that for what you will.

Only one with their panties in a bunch here seems to be you. Im not sure why you seem to be so obstinate in COMPLETELY missing the point, but ill try once more. I. want. all. play-styles. to. be. balanced. Comprende? This means that every weapon, with proper feats and setup, should be within the same ballpark as one another. Currently this is not only untrue, but they aren't even within the same zip-code.

Once again I'm not sure what your issue is, other than some weird grudge that you feel that you now have the opportunity to reverse and "lord over" the poor souls that offended you... problem is that everyone will just rebuild to the new fotm and many styles that were viable previously will fall by the wayside. This is wrong, but in your demented world its perfectly fine rather than rectifying it now while we have the opportunity.

PS. Join date means nothing. You can be around forever and not understand a thing (or not WANT to), as you so aptly have proven, where as someone with a new join date can have a good grip on common sense and reality.


1d8 is still a freakin joke, there is no incentive to run the raid for weapons unless youre making some greataxe, khopesh or dwarven axe build. For any other Weapon there is a better version already in the game. (not counting ****** weapons like monringstar, heavy mace etc)

Will just grab the new bracers and be done with the new raids, dissapointing to say the least.

Aye, none of the new gear speaks to me. I will craft a utility thunder-forged weapon for my off hand, but due to the poor base damage die im not even sure that the new weapons beat out a number of the fully upgraded CitW weapons (Celestia, pinion, sireth), and this isnt because these weapons are soooo good (while they are) but that without the amplified damage die or crit profiles the thunder-forged weapons are so WEAK compared to the other thunder-forged. As to the other gear, so much of it seems built towards niche builds and none of it really seems generally useful (or similar gear is easier to acquire elsewhere or in a better slot).

[Xaxx]

Sorry but your join date is contradicted by the not very observational things you post. My join date is when I logged THAT account into the forums the first time. Regardless a person who joined 4 months ago who is observative and good at absorbing information could pwn your arguments, because you seem to just be floating random contradictions because you're spoiling for an argument after losing the last one to ungood so badly.

Now you've lost this one too... You should take something else up. There are good reasons to keep all the weapons viable choices instead of making a system that massively rewards a tiny subset of high crit range weapons; to the tune of 20% more 33-105 damage procs for one weapon type over another.

Perhaps the new loot Dev doesn't understand where the game was before and is thus not learning from history. Hopfully we can get through to him, there are a lot of people with various join dates posting in support of balancing the choices and weapon types better. Much like your observations of the games past, you seem to have missed a lot. You appear to be the single voice in the wind that sefishly wants his weapon choice to be up to 20% better than most other choices.

Is it shocking that there's someone on here who wants his rapier or khopesh to be the unquestioned best choice? No not shocking at all, there will always be poor souls who feel the need to laud their choice over others. But you should at least admit that your motivation is purely selfish instead of backwardly pretending people who want wider choices are the ones being selfish. At least then other selfish types will agree with you and help you to keep this system flawed in your favor. That is your goal is it not? To keep the system poorly balanced in your favor?

I would expect someone who has been playing this game for 4 months to disagree with me. I would expect someone whose been playing for 4 years and knows anything about this game to agree with me. I would expect someone who wants to moan and complain that their build is no longer going to be the best so they have to go to the forums and make posts like yours to disagree with me.

I've not posted arguments, I've posted the history of the game, sorry if you haven't been paying attention to what went on around you, not my fault, though you may wish to in the future draw in your little snarky comments about people when you yourself violate exactly what your speaking of.

Things rise and fall in mmos, yet people still play... when twf was king, people still ran 2hf. When 2hf was king people still ran twf. When sorcs and dots were king people still ran meles of all varieties. When mele in general was king and casters were viewed by many people as haste/range bots and not much more, people still played casters. Yet at the same time every one of those things was going on, people like you constantly were coming to the forums... waaaah this is op nerf it.... waaah my character choice isn't as powerful as it was I need a boost.... waaah etc etc etc.

You speak of choices and options, yet you wish them to ignore your choice and your options from before. You chose what characters you made, you chose what feats you took, knowing full well what is involved in them. Knowing the past of those choices (greensteel, alchemical). When you made those choices, I'm gonna guess they were made for power reaons based on everything your complaining about. Now those choices don't look so good... well if ALL you care about is your own power and you think that these weapons are the only thing going and its kop/rapier etc... well then you know what make them. If you want to play the game you want to play then do what happened in those earlier times... PLAY THE CLASSES AND BUILDS YOU WANT TO PLAY. I'm sorry the system you've been handed you didn't like, oh well, man up.

You don't like it, don't play it. You guys complained, they didn't listen, you complained some more, they didn't listen... news flash they've done what the wanted with an in game system. Yet you still wanna complain about it. You know, upon seeing the original loot, I simply said meh, not really interested. Made comments itd be nice to see it upgraded... and lookey they did. Made comments on the weapons not being worthwile, and lookey they did upgrade them. You know though if they hadn't... I wouldn't have bothered with them.

You wanna gripe and complain cause you didn't get your way, and then wanna come after me when I point out that this is the HISTORY OF THE GAME..... countering the very run down of how things have went for 8 years with opinions that you state as facts. Sorry dude none of this has been an argument, its been attempting to drop knowledge on the unenlightened, who continue to keep their heads in the sand and scream at the dirt. It doesn't surprise me that this is how you guys react, it really doesn't. Yet all the same, insult me all you want, say that I'm looking out for myself (I'd love to know how I'm doing that since one of my builds is a warhammer build and one is a shiradi build and neither get much out of these weapons yet I'm not marching up and down with a MAKE WARHAMMERS BETTER sign). Accuse me of those things and anything else you wanna dream up. In the end its still pretty simple. I give you the truth of the matter, like it or not. You give me opinions you claim are facts. I'm pretty sure then that theres only one worth listening to out of those two. Keep on spouting off to make yourself feel better, to me it means absolutely nothing. Accept the facts here or don't, be my guest and keep on deluding yourself if you don't.

Anyway now that another one of you guys has been put in their place and shown the way of things (I don't care if you accept the truth or not, it is what is is and all your moaning and petty stuff wont change it) lets get back to what the threads about.

[IronClan]

I would expect someone who has been playing this game for 4 months to disagree with me. I would expect someone whose been playing for 4 years and knows anything about this game to agree with me. I would expect someone who wants to moan and complain that their build is no longer going to be the best so they have to go to the forums and make posts like yours to disagree with me.

I've not posted arguments

Well you've got that much right, it seems your wrong headed expectations are more about poor observation. Unfortunately people who are unwilling to see, or even address the other side of an argument, can waste a lot of peoples time forcing them to repeat the same valid points over and over in the failed attempt to get through to you. Which is what I and others are doing at this point, wasting our time talking to someone who seems to be deliberately unwilling to understand, just to be contrary.

So moving on...

[Ungood]

So moving on...

There was mention of many "weapon Abilities" like increased crit range and the like being put into the Character Build itself, and while that may be a level 30 thing, or even limited to only some ED's, it might be a move to make Melee ED's more appealing.

As I said before tho, I get the feeling that these are not going to be the have all/end all of weapons, but I also get the feeling that they are fire and negative energy, which, may have it's uses in the future.

I still think that the ML should be kept low to make these weapons appealing to eTR's, maybe even drop their ML to 21 to make them even more enticing, that way, they could still offer a lot of service from the level 21 to 28 quests.

[Oxarhamar]

There was mention of many "weapon Abilities" like increased crit range and the like being put into the Character Build itself, and while that may be a level 30 thing, or even limited to only some ED's, it might be a move to make Melee ED's more appealing.

As I said before tho, I get the feeling that these are not going to be the have all/end all of weapons, but I also get the feeling that they are fire and negative energy, which, may have it's uses in the future.

I still think that the ML should be kept low to make these weapons appealing to eTR's, maybe even drop their ML to 21 to make them even more enticing, that way, they could still offer a lot of service from the level 21 to 28 quests.


Hi everyone. Thank you again for your feedback. I can’t repeat enough how valuable it is to us as Update 21 moves toward release. I wanted to take a moment to address some of the topics that have come up in this and the other U21 Treasure Lamannia threads.

Scaling Treasure (Normal/Hard/Elite differences)
For Update 21, items will not be different based on the difficulty of the content run. You can consider this to be the default status for this year’s coming releases, but we are constantly reviewing the incentives for running different difficulties, and we’ll adjust our approach as needed. The difficulty incentives in U21 content rely on drop rates, and we are attempting to scale those so there is a real, worthwhile difference.

Extra Commendations of Valor in Thunderholme
Speaking of which, we have put extra Commendations of Valor in a) chests in the Temple of the Deathwyrm raid, in amounts that scale to difficulty, and b) chests in the Thunderholme adventure area.

DC’s
The goal for DC’s on these craftable raid items is not that they be underpowered! We’re listening and we’re looking hard at all the relevant numbers.

Critical Profiles
As some of you may have noticed, we’ve been shifting Critical Range and Multiplier bonuses away from equipment and into Enhancements and Epic Destinies. It’s our view, for a variety of reasons (some of which are “under the hood”), that these critical stats are “tapped out.” That said, we think we grok the appeal underlying altered critical profiles (damage spikes, synergies, creative build strategies), and part of our goal for Level 28 and above is to find new avenues to get that kind of goodness in - but from new or different sources.


Thanks again,
Dr#

vv

[HuneyMunster]

So they can cast undeath to death every 22-30 seconds. Yeah.

Why dont you invest in some fort bypass gear, ED, enhancements? There is no reason for a melee not to be able crit undead in epics anymore. It is easy to get over 50% fort bypass.

Why not cast halt undead and command undead when finger and wail don't work?

[HuneyMunster]

I strongly recommend Shadowdancer ED - the top autogrant removing immunity to sneak attack on vorpal is amazing. Zombies, plants, constructs, whatever - you start swinging, you roll a 20 and then bam the HPs just start melting away.

Shadowdancer is what I use. The problem is its a 5% chance to proc. I would imagine a PM would not be happy if it only had a 5% chance to do max damage on an undead.

[lyrecono]

Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian
So they can cast undeath to death every 22-30 seconds. Yeah.

Why dont you invest in some fort bypass gear, ED, enhancements? There is no reason for a melee not to be able crit undead in epics anymore. It is easy to get over 50% fort bypass.

with a 150 enemy fort, howmuch will a cetus build fighter be able to bypass?
15% grim presision?
20% fully upgraded epic black dragon set?

Even if you bring it down to 80% that means 80% of your crits are wasted.
Crit's are the melee's last place to be usefull, Frenzied berzerkers, earth stanced centred kensai's are all aiming for the big crits. enhanced by Devastating Critical, Overwhelming Critical and Headman's Chop.(assuming it works, all the time, as it should)

[pesch1991]

*** citw loot is Way better i'am disappointed
.. Who cares about elemental aoe dmg when they have at least one Type of Immunity or resis making it worthless i have a feeling that they mess it up Even More with each new expansion

[lyrecono]

what expansion?
We had one, the other was a double update pack they tried to sell as one.
We'll see what happends when these packs fail though

[raclaw]

Please change appearance weapons after an 1 st upgrade... black cloud obscures the sword and looks as dark cotton candy ...


http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e176/welverin42/ScreenShot01194_zps9293aec4.jpg (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/welverin42/media/ScreenShot01194_zps9293aec4.jpg.html)

[GeoffWatson]

We recently found a pervasive issue that broadly affected Thrown Weapons, preventing some abilities from working with them, which we've found and fixed. This might coincidentally fix a number of other problems with thrown weapons with Update 21.

We'd have to look into it in more detail for some of the other issues.


This has NOT been fixed.
Keen Edge, Master Thrower, Ninja Master, and Adrenaline DO NOT increase the crit range of thrown weapons.
Keen Edge, Master Thrower, Ninja Master change the crit range when you mouse-over the weapon, but not the combat rolls.

Can you please fix it?

Geoff.

[Oxarhamar]

Please change appearance weapons after an 1 st upgrade... black cloud obscures the sword and looks as dark cotton candy ...


http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e176/welverin42/ScreenShot01194_zps9293aec4.jpg (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/welverin42/media/ScreenShot01194_zps9293aec4.jpg.html)

looks like you took touch of shadows

[raclaw]

looks like you took touch of shadows

not touch of shadows, this is 1 st Degree Burns

[Atremus]

Everyone in the game is going to look like a black puff ball eventually

[Ungood]

not touch of shadows, this is 1 st Degree Burns

bummer, and I was hoping that the cloud effect would shift from back shadow to red flame depending on what you picked.

[Eth]

Wow. I already hate the look of the armor. Now combine this with 2 more of the weapons looking like that.
Guess U22 comes with cosmetic weapon sets *sigh*

[Ivan_Milic]

Just saw this weapon in game, who thought of that?
Looks like a graphic glitch.

[twigzz]

Just saw this weapon in game, who thought of that?
Looks like a graphic glitch.

Yeah I just seen it today too and to me it looked like some type of shadow shield lol. I tried stalking the guy but he teleported. :(

[Oxarhamar]

not touch of shadows, this is 1 st Degree Burns

Blasphemy

[Henky]

Anyone tested Epic Bane of Dragons on tier 1? It didn't work on my handwraps on Green Dragon encounter in King Forest.

[IronClan]

looks like you took touch of Pig-pen

fixed for you

http://igniteyourpowercoaching.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Pig-Pen.jpg

[Singular]

Apparently the +2 exceptional DC bonus is not stacking with equipment bonuses. Please fix this :)

[Henky]

Epic bane of Dragons on handwraps doesn't work on Green Dragon encounter in King Forest, Gianthold TOR or Epic Velah. They must be evolved kobolds isntead of dragons...

[Atremus]

Apparently the +2 exceptional DC bonus is not stacking with equipment bonuses. Please fix this :)

Did you bug report it? I was looking forward to the DC stuff too.

Also read that the Spell power (tier 1) doesn't grant a implement bonus

[Delacroix21]

We need shurikens in this list to.


They USED to be flavor weapons, now some builds rely on them big time!

[Arcbound]

Is anyone else having a problem with their Tier 1 weapons? Mine isn't BtC like it's supposed to be, and is taking permanent item damage. Little bummed at that because of how much I was looking forward to using it too.


Update: Seems that the weapons are unbound when you upgrade them with an augment slotted. To fix this, unslot the augment and then put it through a Stone of Change with Khyber shards. The Khyber shards will not work to bind it otherwise.

[Fhauvial]

Epic bane of Dragons on handwraps doesn't work on Green Dragon encounter in King Forest, Gianthold TOR or Epic Velah. They must be evolved kobolds isntead of dragons...

I haven't seen the bane damage work on any dragon, including the ones in Fire/Temple. I'm assuming it's supposed to be bane damage, and therefore not WAI.

[Atremus]

When is patch 1? I hope that black smoke effect is gone soon. Really takes some enjoyment out of the game.

[Loromir]

Sorry if I missed it. But for the purposes of this system...is a bow considered a "two-hander"?

[Ladislaio]

Sorry if I missed it. But for the purposes of this system...is a bow considered a "two-hander"?

No, bows and crossbows are considered one-handers despite the fact that they use both of your hand slots. They also get that lovely dense black cloud of ugly smoke that one-handers get(just wait until you have raid groups full of people with the weapons and armor). Thus if you are a caster using an offhand and a thrower is a better choice than a bow generally.


P.S. To any devs that read this:
The black smoke from the weapons is ugly and we cannot spend tp to cover it up like we can with the armor. Please remove it?

[Loromir]

No, bows and crossbows are considered one-handers despite the fact that they use both of your hand slots. They also get that lovely dense black cloud of ugly smoke that one-handers get(just wait until you have raid groups full of people with the weapons and armor). Thus if you are a caster using an offhand and a thrower is a better choice than a bow generally.


P.S. To any devs that read this:
The black smoke from the weapons is ugly and we cannot spend tp to cover it up like we can with the armor. Please remove it?

I was more interested in getting the purple and red slot on my bow at tier two. If it's classified a two hander...I get both slots...otherwise only the purple.

[SeaWolf925]

I play several evasion toons; specifically I really enjoy playing a AA primary build with Tempest secondary. The armor effects I am most interested in are on medium armor: alacrity. Because I am an evasion toon I will not wear, grind or purchase this armor. I am not impressed with the light armor for this or many of the builds I play that focus on evasion. I was a premium player that updated my account to VIP for ETR wood and update 21. I have now gone back to premium as I have very little interest in the new level 30 raids. the weapons are another story but the weapons I have now work quite well in all other EE content. Therefore I am unwilling to pay for VIP just for Haunted Halls or Thunder Home and I will seriously debate whether I purchase these paks with Turbine Points. The lag in Thunder Home explorer and raids is unacceptable and makes all this barely playable anyhow. I can not count on two hands and two feet the number of times everyone has froze only to unfreeze with everyone dead, what a waste of time and resources. I am really disappointed as I love new quests and other then the armor I like the loot system for weapons. The problem is simply that this is not worth the time or the money.

[SeaWolf925]

Please change appearance weapons after an 1 st upgrade... black cloud obscures the sword and looks as dark cotton candy ...


http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e176/welverin42/ScreenShot01194_zps9293aec4.jpg (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/welverin42/media/ScreenShot01194_zps9293aec4.jpg.html)

You look like Pig-pen from peanuts. He he he

[count_spicoli]

I'm assuming the dev who came up with that is one of the devs that got laid off. Hence WHY he was laid off.

[Krelar]

I'm assuming the dev who came up with that is one of the devs that got laid off. Hence WHY he was laid off.

Or maybe it was made that way as soon as he found out he was getting laid off. :D

[Grimlock]

You look like Pig-pen from peanuts. He he he

This picture looks like censored Hentai.

[count_spicoli]

Or maybe it was made that way as soon as he found out he was getting laid off. :D


Ha ha that's funny

[Atremus]

The black cloud aka pom poms is strange. I have a Kama and Quarterstaff with the same tier 1 on both, but only the Kama has the toxic cloud... So strange

[Crohnick]

I'm assuming the dev who came up with that is one of the devs that got laid off. Hence WHY he was laid off.

Im assuming that they prob. contract out alot of the work. I.E. a Pack at a time, I think things would be more polished if they had long time caregivers for new stuff.

[krolikru3]

First off very good stuff, and very good job on the items. I do however have a slight problem with two handed weapons for casters.

two handed weapon
- 150 spell power (+1 stacking dc)

- +6 dc of a school or +2 stacking dc's (both have +1% extra crit chance)

- 22% crit chance (+2 weapon enchantment)

two weapons
- 150 spell power (main hand)
- 150 spell power (off hand)

- +6 dc (main hand)
- +2 stacking dc(off hand)

- 22% crit chance (main hand)
- 22% crit chance (off hand)

So basically two handed weapons have an extra 1% crit chance,+2 enchantment, and +1 dc in secondary spell casting school. And two weapons gives you an extra 150 spell power, with another 22% crit chance for your other element. While both give you the same dc.

So there really isn't any incentive to go for a two handed weapon
- you get the same dc's as two weapons (however, your secondary spec will have +1 dc higher)
- you also can only spec in 1 element (which is a bad idea)

I just think there needs to be a boost if people are going to use two handers.


Wait so if I have 150 fire spell power in my main and off hand, will they stack?

[RobbinB]

Wait so if I have 150 fire spell power in my main and off hand, will they stack?

No, they won't stack. The 150 spellpower in main and offhands was saying you could get 150 spellpower to 2 different elements, instead of just one.

[slarden]

Wait so if I have 150 fire spell power in my main and off hand, will they stack?
No he was just comparing a two handed tf weapon to two weapons. Having 2 weapons gives you two different 150 spell powers ( fire and force for example). But they aren't stacking.

[emmanuelvargas]

ty very useful, now I will go and collect materials

[thomascoolone64]

ty very useful, now I will go and collect materials

This is a very old thread.... tf?