Dex-based Pally, viable?

[Avka]

Hello there.
I was thinking of inevitable TR into pally for my completionist toon.
Sword-n-board is just too slow for my tastes, so the only option be KotC.
At first i thought of another 2h user (i did ftr, barb, bard and wizard PLes that way)
But i am up with the new idea, and want to read some comments if its viable.
So, here it goes.
Elf Rogue 2 / Ranger 3 / Pally 15
Starting as a rogue, then ranger, and the 2nd rogue level somewhere at 7th-9th level.
Ranger gets Dex to-hit at character level 4, and scimitar offhands, elf gets Dex to-dam somewhere at 7-8th, and further scimitar boosts, pally gets Zeal
With this setup i can lessen the MAD by ignoring Str and taking fairly minimum Wis.
Feats will include full TWF line, full dodge line.
Thinking of skyrocket ref+eva, decent other saves, possible trap skills, selfhealing and doing dam by some op weapon procs like dual Fang of Syberis.

This is not meant to go epic (maybe 1-2 DA en runs).

Am i missing something?

[unbongwah]

It's doable, sure, but there are a couple of reasons it's suboptimal:

Div Might is now an Insightful STR bonus; if you skip it, you're giving up one of the few good DPS bonuses pallies get these days. [If you happen to take rgr 4 to get Ram's Might, that's another +2 STR bonus.]
There are a lot more STR than DEX bonuses in DDO: apart from DM, there's Rage spell, barb Rage PL, Titan's Grip, Primal Scream, etc.


Sure, going DEX-based is a little less MAD, but as a 36-pt TR with presumably at least a few tomes, I kinda doubt you're gonna be hurting for stat pts. Also, the main incentive to going pal 14+ is to gain Zeal; secondary considerations are extra lvl 4 spell slot (CSW or DW), better LoHs, etc. But in this case those bonuses are pretty backloaded if you're planning to TR right away when you get to 20; and everything from pal 6 thru 13 is a big pile of meh, IMHO. If you're just after a pally PL, then I think something like pal 8 / rgr 6 / monk or rog 6 is better: level to 18 (6/6/6), XP farm to 20, take your last two levels as pally, do your DA runs, TR.

[Leclaire1]

I personally strongly prefer to play dex builds as much as possible, and have definitely done it with elves and drow. In fact my next elven life will be as a dex build pally with Manyshot. ubongwah is right that you can get higher strength because there are more bonuses to it, and this is as it should be because strength is otherwise useless as a stat. While your DPS will be a little bit lower, your reflex saves, the functionality of your evasion, and your armor class are vastly improved. This is almost always a worthwhile tradeoff, imo, as dying will make your DPS cut short anyway.

It is also true that pallys don't have the greatest DPS and that you are giving up Divine Might. Nonetheless, most of a pally's DPS comes via crit augments from Divine Sacrifice and Exalted Smite anyway, which you should be spamming whenever its not on cooldown. A few things to know about dex builds.

1) Dex to damage can be gained on rapiers, lswords, lbows, sbows, and scimis merely from being and elf and spending up in your tree, so you don't need ranger levels for that necessarily. It can also be gained from DS enhancements without the need to have 3 levels of ranger, or from 3 levels of rogue if you have the weapon finesse feat. The most interesting source of it though is from 3 levels of monk in the ninja spy tree, where it can be on any piercing or slashing weapon you can remain centered with, which can easily include shortswords, longswords, and longbows.

2) The ranger splash is most useful if you want a burst DPS archery option. I'm planning next life to go Pally 14/Rgr 4/Rogue 2 dex build. I could go 15/3 as you suggested as well, though the extra level makes gaining IPS less costly. A dex build with dex damage to the bow and manyshot has powerful options indeed.

3) The other one I have done was a drow (though it could also be elf for more build points) Pally 14/Monk 6. It is a little feat tight in building, but by level 12 you can have tier3 earth stance, which basically gives you Devastating Critical at heroic levels with no need for strength. This one could be built for Shortswords or Longswords, and loses the archery but gains extra crit augmenting ki attacks via fists of iron and all the other monk elemental attacks.

I could try to give more details if you'd like, but I'd say go dex build!

[EllisDee37]

As a paladin life on the way to completionist you don't need this to be endgame viable. In that context, yeah, dex to damage works fine.

I'd recommend drow instead of elf for a couple reasons. First is that a TWF pally is one of the few nice places a drow really shines; you get +2 dex and cha (woot!) plus int for an extra skill point, which can be nice.

Second, pally abilities (divine sacrifice, exalted smite) synergize best with 18-20x2 profile weapons. Elf gets scimitars, drow gets rapiers, so either way works fine.

Any level 2 ranger can use dex to damage for rapiers with the weapon finesse feat and a tier 2 deepwood stalker ability.

Also, I advise you give up on zeal in that unless you do something like an 18/2 split, you won't get zeal until you hit level 20 and TR out of the build anyway.

So my thinking would be 12/6/2 paladin/ranger/either monk or rogue. Monk is (clearly) better but rogue would keep you from getting those annoying "you are not centered" messages. I'd probably go rogue just for that.

The six ranger gets you manyshot (not a bad perk) and ITWF for free, but you're spending a feat on weapon finesse if you go the drow route. To me that's worth it. Rapiers for the win!

[Lonnbeimnech]

Well, it's more viable than an int based pally.

If you are just trying to get the past life out of the way, 7 pally 7 monk 6 fighter.

[Teh_Troll]

Stop sugar-coating stuff.

it's a terrible idea.

Divne might bonus = be STR-based or else.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Stop sugar-coating stuff.

it's a terrible idea.

Divne might bonus = be STR-based or else.

^that.

Also, since str con and cha should be high, that leaves very little room for other stats, namely dex.

So you are looking at thf.

[Irenae]

It can be made to work, sure but why would you? THF deals more damage atm so you would be looking at a sub-optimal character. This is the reality so you are faced with the choice of making a gimp character or one that performs as best as possible. Even S&B tanks know sometimes you need to put the shield away and use a 2-handed weapon to increase the damage. Some enemies have very good defense and regeneration but lack offense, meaning you need to deal damage to get rid of them quickly, this means you would slow down runs and not be known for kill counts. Probably this means no Pick up groups for you if you do go 2 weapon.

[Avka]

I just finished that pallie life recently, so i will provide some feedback.
Went full Dex, significant enhances - Valenar Grace, Tempest, Sealed life, ES, DS, displacement from DM, saves boost
Significant feats - twf line, dodge line, DM.
Dualwielding two fangs of syberis, black gh robe, skirmishers stuff from wheloon
With speed8, doublestrike and offhandstrike, fangs provided a lot or procs, adding to damage significantly.
Crits with ES were like 300+300 (and sometimes +300 more - yes, ES can proc offhand and doublestrike, DS too) at 14-18 levels already.
50ish reflex unbuffed at midheroics, evasion, made swim in crucible hitting all the traps possible (yeah, i am an awful mario gamer), run thru minefield in undermine, undamaged both times
Significant "achievement" - 2manned blackdragon fight in tor at level when 4/6 puggers were dead.

I actually thought that would be harder ^^

[hp1055cm]

I ran a Elf TWF 12 Paly/6 Ranger/2 Rogue through level 28 (No EE) a few lives ago and it was very enjoyable. Used enhancement trees for Race, Tempest and Sacred Defender. Got STR, CON, and Dex at 30+ by Epic levels. Had to get by with average CHA but got it to 24 I think by level 28.
Great saves, great healing options, durable in most fights, good burst damage, and very adaptable to various tasks.

[goodspeed]

^that.

Also, since str con and cha should be high, that leaves very little room for other stats, namely dex.

So you are looking at thf.

I don't think ud even need to invest in dex. Pallys naturally have kickass saves. Now stack str, jack up wis as much as possible and keep up divine and you should have a bunch of str to make stunning blows and push the dmg.

only thing ud need dex for is gtwf, but if I was going to go for 2 weapons on a pally, their wouldn't be a whole lot of pally compared to mixing ranger and something else. Even with the 2 handed, id say pally goes to about 16 max. After that ur just jipping yourself out of feats and enhancments outright.