A month without PUGS

[GroundhogDay]

It has been roughly a month now since i swore off pugs due to an invite to "not pug anymore" (since i couldn't stand elitists and jerks all around, it's really one of the most common things i read in this forum, don't pug, go solo, for whatever reason)

15 days into it the time i spent playing the game was half what it usually was, now however i simply don't play anymore.

I mean, what's the point?

This is not a good single player game, i could do far better than ddo in that area.

The customization is non existent, not many choices are available when you have to be a self healing trapster with a flair for dps. TR, ER, IR, are pointless to me, why should i redo the same toon over and over again when i have so little choice in the first place?

Can't raid alone, so most of the gear is out of my reach and what little i could get from the AH i can't upgrade.

Lol i don't even know where to spend my points, i have 2000 odd points and see no new content i care about coming my way (since it's gonna be raids and more important FR raids and i find FR underwhelming at best)

My point? I ain't got one, it's just what happens when you bully people into a corner cause their freedom is less important then yours.

Just think about it before saying "don't pug" to somebody, cause you could be taken on your words and to kill the social part of the game is to kill ddo.

[Oxarhamar]

It has been roughly a month now since i swore off pugs due to an invite to "not pug anymore" (since i couldn't stand elitists and jerks all around, it's really one of the most common things i read in this forum, don't pug, go solo, for whatever reason)

15 days into it the time i spent playing the game was half what it usually was, now however i simply don't play anymore.

I mean, what's the point?

This is not a good single player game, i could do far better than ddo in that area.

The customization is non existent, not many choices are available when you have to be a self healing trapster with a flair for dps. TR, ER, IR, are pointless to me, why should i redo the same toon over and over again when i have so little choice in the first place?

Can't raid alone, so most of the gear is out of my reach and what little i could get from the AH i can't upgrade.

Lol i don't even know where to spend my points, i have 2000 odd points and see no new content i care about coming my way (since it's gonna be raids and more important FR raids and i find FR underwhelming at best)

My point? I ain't got one, it's just what happens when you bully people into a corner cause their freedom is less important then yours.

Just think about it before saying "don't pug" to somebody, cause you could be taken on your words and to kill the social part of the game is to kill ddo.

there are plenty of social aspects to the game without PUGs

try joining a guild. or make some friends and form a static group.

Why does everyone who insists MMO are a social game complain about PUGs.

[Vellrad]

Another one, who never heard about guilds.

I rarely pug, I never solo.
I don't have to do any.

[slarden]

Probably the #1 reason people leave the game, but you do have the option to ignore those people. They are a small % of the DDO population.

[axel15810]

I pug all the time. It keeps things interesting because every group is different.

My momma always said a pug is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

[Teh_Troll]

My point? I ain't got one, it's just what happens when you bully people into a corner cause their freedom is less important then yours.



Your freedom is less important to me than mine is. Same as my fun is more important to me than anyone else's. Quite frankly I don't make any money off of you having fun so why is it my problem?

Sure, pugland is full of jerks . . . but if you can't find a few people to run with the best place to look for an issue is a mirror.

[Spoonwelder]

Not sure of your particular circumstances - but if you were told not to pug my guess is you were complaining about pugs. So you had some bad experiences came here to vent and didn't get alot of sympathy....welcome to the internet. Sorry for the sarcasm but most people when given anonymity will be d-bags.

But you have many options aside from not pugging:

- pug as lead only and be selective and/or descriptive in your LFM
- pug to join but don't expect too much 'social' in the group
- join a guild and find a running mate or two (ie. same level and play times
- switch guilds until you find some running mates if you are already in one
- don't pug - yup its still an option



As to soloing - I solo alot - playtimes and various other reasons - I can take any build on heroic elite to about level 18 - There is some stuff you run into then that is hard to solo on certain builds and/or takes a lot longer so I will either go to hard or pug. You don't need a trapper at all on heroic hard - barely need it on elite (assuming you know the quests). I enjoy doing that because each build is different - and approaches each quest a little differently. So....no you don't need to have the same build each life.

In the end its a game - if YOU aren't having fun then you need to figure out what will make it fun for you OR find a differernt game. Nobody here can fix that for you.

[slarden]

Your freedom is less important to me than mine is. Same as my fun is more important to me than anyone else's. Quite frankly I don't make any money off of you having fun so why is it my problem?

Sure, pugland is full of jerks . . . but if you can't find a few people to run with the best place to look for an issue is a mirror.

The troll speaks truth.

If you run into issues once and a while in PUGS it is probably their fault.

If you have problems in most PUGS it is probably your fault.

[GroundhogDay]

Another one, who never heard about guilds.

As a matter of fact the guild i'm in just recently hit 70

[Teh_Troll]

As a matter of fact the guild i'm in just recently hit 70

And none of your guildies will run with you either?

[Potatofasf]

Again... on other post similar to yours the other community member argue about the same thing!
Social Mechanics!
That's Broken!
The Social mechanism of the game is BROKEN!
With Guild System, Channel System, Closed/Friends System... new players are faded to play one or two weeks and realize that game is for a few numbers of old players!
Playing another MMOs where the Social is party of the game (sharing more XP, more loot, more content, etc)... you could compare and see the DDO is getting boring, old and not so fun!
I'm playing waiting Diablo III expansion, ESO releasing and Final Fantasy Online be more consistent... and hope for a miracle how change this DDO scenario!

But.... the Social is broken and everyone knows that!

[Qhualor]

Nothing wrong with seeking advice, but I dont seek it from the forums because I don't trust it. What the forums say and how things really are in game are 2 different things.

Now I will say I usually really enjoy pugging. You will come across jerks and wannabe elitists, but for the most part its fun. For me, it can be the only real source of challenge. Pugging isn't anywhere as bad as some make it out to be.

[GroundhogDay]

Your freedom is less important to me than mine is. Same as my fun is more important to me than anyone else's. Quite frankly I don't make any money off of you having fun so why is it my problem?

Sure, pugland is full of jerks . . . but if you can't find a few people to run with the best place to look for an issue is a mirror.

LOL you know what? Having lurked the forums for almost 2 years now i came to respect you lol, as your signature says you're a wise troll

I play with a RL friend and there's a couple of chaps i know in game with whom i had good times, still most of the times i used to pug just as a filler in between.

But to be in a group with someone that berates someone else (even if it's not me) cause they're not optimally built, having people try to zerg a no zerg lfm (and don't misunderstand me, it's not about zergers per se, i'm peeved with people who ignore the lfms) and then complain about the hjealer (you know about hjeal me people right?)

But most of all i'm peeved at those who say don't pug, of course i'm going to play with my friends, this is all an experiment, like in Supersize Me, i know it's not good for me but i'm going to do it just to prove a point.

But i've been here for almost 2 years now and had the time to make some friends, what if i was a new player tho? I probably would have played a month and then back to assassin's.

Not good for the game, and not good for us, we (sadly maybe) need people if we want turb (or rather WB) to keep the game up, they don't care how good a player is, i bet euros to peanuts they'd rather have 10 "bad" players then a signle "good" one.

That said... can you hjeal me? (i wanted to say that to you for a long time now)

Peace out

[TBot1234]

It has been roughly a month now since i swore off pugs due to an invite to "not pug anymore" (since i couldn't stand elitists and jerks all around, it's really one of the most common things i read in this forum, don't pug, go solo, for whatever reason)

15 days into it the time i spent playing the game was half what it usually was, now however i simply don't play anymore.

I mean, what's the point?

This is not a good single player game, i could do far better than ddo in that area.

The customization is non existent, not many choices are available when you have to be a self healing trapster with a flair for dps. TR, ER, IR, are pointless to me, why should i redo the same toon over and over again when i have so little choice in the first place?

Can't raid alone, so most of the gear is out of my reach and what little i could get from the AH i can't upgrade.

Lol i don't even know where to spend my points, i have 2000 odd points and see no new content i care about coming my way (since it's gonna be raids and more important FR raids and i find FR underwhelming at best)

My point? I ain't got one, it's just what happens when you bully people into a corner cause their freedom is less important then yours.

Just think about it before saying "don't pug" to somebody, cause you could be taken on your words and to kill the social part of the game is to kill ddo.

I'm sorry you've had so many bad PUG experiences. I've had my share of them too. I lucked into finding a static group of mature, like-minded people and that is what has kept me in the game for so many years. I wish you luck finding something similar.

I'm sure lots of people can/could give suggestion on how to enjoy the multi-player aspect. If you keep trying I really believe you could find a guild or group that you would enjoy being in.

I do disagree with your comments about customization. There are many ways to customize your character, even if you want to self-sufficient (survivability, self-healing, trap-handling, damage-dealing).

[Fedora1]

The customization is non existent, not many choices are available when you have to be a self healing trapster with a flair for dps.

While some builds are much better at soloing than others, I did take a pure L20 half orc fighter to L16 before I ever joined a party.
Yes, elite traps killed him. So I avoided running trap-heavy quests on elite, ran them on hard. Chug the CSW pots between fights if you dont like hireling clerics.

If you die, release to your bind point and head back in. No big deal.

[viktorserak]

It has been roughly a month now since i swore off pugs due to an invite to "not pug anymore" (since i couldn't stand elitists and jerks all around, it's really one of the most common things i read in this forum, don't pug, go solo, for whatever reason)

15 days into it the time i spent playing the game was half what it usually was, now however i simply don't play anymore.

I mean, what's the point?

This is not a good single player game, i could do far better than ddo in that area.

The customization is non existent, not many choices are available when you have to be a self healing trapster with a flair for dps. TR, ER, IR, are pointless to me, why should i redo the same toon over and over again when i have so little choice in the first place?

Can't raid alone, so most of the gear is out of my reach and what little i could get from the AH i can't upgrade.

Lol i don't even know where to spend my points, i have 2000 odd points and see no new content i care about coming my way (since it's gonna be raids and more important FR raids and i find FR underwhelming at best)

My point? I ain't got one, it's just what happens when you bully people into a corner cause their freedom is less important then yours.

Just think about it before saying "don't pug" to somebody, cause you could be taken on your words and to kill the social part of the game is to kill ddo.

Hi, Welcome.

My fun and freedom is ALWAYS more important to me then your fun and freedom. If your fun and freedom is not more important to you then my fun, then please, send me you email adress - I have some self-written english documents I need to make gramatically correct and I will send them to you, so you can do it instead of me, while I will be having fun freely. Thank you.

Aside from that, basically what everyone else said:

1. If you were given advice not to pug, you have been propably whining abou bad pug/s experience. If you have choosen such an extreme solution as to avoid pugs forever, well... that really does sounds like your problem.

2. Stolen from someone who said this in this thread before me:
- pug as lead only and be selective and/or descriptive in your LFM
- pug to join but don't expect too much 'social' in the group
- join a guild and find a running mate or two (ie. same level and play times)
- switch guilds until you find some running mates if you are already in one
- don't pug - yup its still an option

3. last of all: If you are whining about "I stopped puging because forumite told me to", which ws an order that you HAD to follow, then another forumite (me) is telling you to send all your cash onto my accounts. Now. Do it, it will solve all your problems. Now.

[viktorserak]

1. I play with a RL friend and there's a couple of chaps i know in game with whom i had good times, still most of the times i used to pug just as a filler in between.

2. But to be in a group with someone that berates someone else (even if it's not me) cause they're not optimally built, having people try to zerg a no zerg lfm (and don't misunderstand me, it's not about zergers per se, i'm peeved with people who ignore the lfms) and then complain about the hjealer (you know about hjeal me people right?)

3. But most of all i'm peeved at those who say don't pug, of course i'm going to play with my friends, this is all an experiment, like in Supersize Me, i know it's not good for me but i'm going to do it just to prove a point.

4. Not good for the game, and not good for us, we (sadly maybe) need people if we want turb (or rather WB) to keep the game up, they don't care how good a player is, i bet euros to peanuts they'd rather have 10 "bad" players then a signle "good" one.

That said... can you hjeal me? (i wanted to say that to you for a long time now)

Peace out

I added numbers into your text for better orientation:

1. Good for you.

2. Some PUGs are containing incompetent or hostile players. Or people thet are joining LFM but act like they are soloing even inside the group. From my personal experience, these are minority. If you are having problems with them being -vast- majority, either be sure to specifiy your LFMs, get in touch with your server pugging scene or introspect yourself and look for the problem in yourself.

3. Quite honestly... I dare to say that most of us dont care. Also, in supersize me, we are looking what happens with a man s boy after he eats lots of trash food. In your case, we are looking what happens with your gaming prefferences after you stop participating in a certain area of this game. While every healthy human body works prety much the same, gaming prefferences varies greatly. I cannot imagine I woud waste my time in FIFA 1990 - 2150, some people obviously do. You are missing PUGs, some people hate them and they enjoy this game much differently. So... what point are you proving?

4. I absolutely agree. Money first. This is a buisness.

[Gremmlynn]

Another one, who never heard about guilds.

I rarely pug, I never solo.
I don't have to do any.It's strange how people completely discount the obvious best answer.

[PermaBanned]

It has been roughly a month now since i swore off pugs due to an invite to "not pug anymore" (since i couldn't stand elitists and jerks all around, it's really one of the most common things i read in this forum, don't pug, go solo, for whatever reason) The Elitest/NonElitest ratio on the forum is about a zillion bajillion times higher than what I have experienced in-game, and I pug all the time. Soloing works great for some people, and I've certainly done my share; but it usually stems from putting up an Ip LFM that doesn't get hit. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen.


The customization is non existent, not many choices are available when you have to be a self healing trapster with a flair for dps. TR, ER, IR, are pointless to me, why should i redo the same toon over and over again when i have so little choice in the first place? I'm not sure what issue you're running into here. I have made a self-sufficient trapper build for every class to get competionest - with one exception: Barbarian; I'm simply not fond of the class, so I used the lesser +20 to get the past life. Seriously, if you want to get traps & be self sufficient, the only limitation of choice is taking one level of Arti or Rogue, the other 19 can be whatever you want.


Can't raid alone, so most of the gear is out of my reach and what little i could get from the AH i can't upgrade. Most of the gear doesn't come from raids.


My point? I ain't got one, it's just what happens when you bully people into a corner cause their freedom is less important then yours.

Just think about it before saying "don't pug" to somebody, cause you could be taken on your words and to kill the social part of the game is to kill ddo. People on a forum can only bully you as much as you let them. Don't like what they have to say? Hit that little X in the upper corner of the screen. Really, nobody can make you play or not play. If you're not enjoying the game, 'nuff said - log out & happy trails; but don't come and say "You mean people told me to stop pugging, so I did & now I don't have fun and it's all your fault!" That's just sad.

[Gremmlynn]

LOL you know what? Having lurked the forums for almost 2 years now i came to respect you lol, as your signature says you're a wise troll

I play with a RL friend and there's a couple of chaps i know in game with whom i had good times, still most of the times i used to pug just as a filler in between.

But to be in a group with someone that berates someone else (even if it's not me) cause they're not optimally built, having people try to zerg a no zerg lfm (and don't misunderstand me, it's not about zergers per se, i'm peeved with people who ignore the lfms) and then complain about the hjealer (you know about hjeal me people right?)

But most of all i'm peeved at those who say don't pug, of course i'm going to play with my friends, this is all an experiment, like in Supersize Me, i know it's not good for me but i'm going to do it just to prove a point.

But i've been here for almost 2 years now and had the time to make some friends, what if i was a new player tho? I probably would have played a month and then back to assassin's.

Not good for the game, and not good for us, we (sadly maybe) need people if we want turb (or rather WB) to keep the game up, they don't care how good a player is, i bet euros to peanuts they'd rather have 10 "bad" players then a signle "good" one.

That said... can you hjeal me? (i wanted to say that to you for a long time now)

Peace outSo, can you think of a reasonable solution to this perceived problem?

[Vint]

It is very hard for me to have sympathy for someone that says that cannot find groups (outside of Wayfinder). There are many guilds on every server and if I am not mistaken most servers have a channel dedicated to people that hate the zergers.

[rest]

I'm really sorry that your social circle is so small that your only options are pug or solo. Maybe try joining a more active guild, or an active user created channel. Or make some friends.

Good luck in your future questing endeavors!

[Lallajulia]

had excatly the same result by quit pugs and go solo few lives.
its simply pointless. it became so boring i was inch from quitting.
if not go multiplayer game is not worth time to reapeat it 20 times. this is not open world game where world is so good designed you want go back over and over just to feel atmosphere.
and it consumes a LOT of time to make good toon with gear/pl.
and that leaves that fun is around ppl you like to play with or friends you made.

but need to remember, its imaginary, nonexistent world and every hour you spend there is stolen from your real life, family, work, education. so... in any case it is hard to find "point" in doing things unconnected to reality.

[Algreg]

well, you limit yourself to not teaming because each and every player in PUGs is a proclaimed elitist and jerk. Which is of cause very probable. This cannot be a problem on your side.... seriously, seems like single player games really are your thang then.

[Thrudh]

I pug all the time. It keeps things interesting because every group is different.

My momma always said a pug is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

Me too... Running with the same people, using the exact same tactics every time is boring... I PUG constantly and very rarely meet jerks

[GroundhogDay]

My fun and freedom is ALWAYS more important to me then your fun and freedom. If your fun and freedom is not more important to you then my fun, then please, send me you email adress - I have some self-written english documents I need to make gramatically correct and I will send them to you, so you can do it instead of me, while I will be having fun freely. Thank you.

last of all: If you are whining about "I stopped puging because forumite told me to", which ws an order that you HAD to follow, then another forumite (me) is telling you to send all your cash onto my accounts. Now. Do it, it will solve all your problems. Now.

I'm actually convinced that we are all important the same way, that my freedom must end where yours begin, but then it must work both ways or else it's just futile, it's basic humanity, really, and it baffles me that i have to tell you something as basic as to respect a fellow human being... from what planet are you from?

Are you telling me you keep singing karaoke in your apartment all night with no respect for your neighbors just cause you're having fun?


Quite honestly... I dare to say that most of us dont care. Also, in supersize me, we are looking what happens with a man s boy after he eats lots of trash food. In your case, we are looking what happens with your gaming prefferences after you stop participating in a certain area of this game. While every healthy human body works prety much the same, gaming prefferences varies greatly. I cannot imagine I woud waste my time in FIFA 1990 - 2150, some people obviously do. You are missing PUGs, some people hate them and they enjoy this game much differently. So... what point are you proving?

Since you missed the whole point of the movie i don't expect you to get the meaning of what i'm saying.


So, can you think of a reasonable solution to this perceived problem?

Isn't my whole point "stop telling people not to pug, is not a solution and it's moronic"? Look, if you (not you, in general) feel the urge to say "stay out of pugs and run solo", you are probably the one who should stop pugging in first place.


It is very hard for me to have sympathy for someone that says that cannot find groups (outside of Wayfinder). There are many guilds on every server and if I am not mistaken most servers have a channel dedicated to people that hate the zergers.

PUGs are the way to know people and get first contact with some of the many guilds on every server, and, if i'm not mistaken, in no way i said i hate zergers, i leave them alone as they do with me, someone who speeds in a no zerg party, kicks the bucket and then cries for hjeals is not a zerger, is just a moron.


well, you limit yourself to not teaming because each and every player in PUGs is a proclaimed elitist and jerk. Which is of cause very probable. This cannot be a problem on your side.... seriously, seems like single player games really are your thang then.

Then again i've never said that, you completely fabricated that on your own with, maybe, just a little rage from some other thread or discussion so i'm just gonna put your comment down to bellyaching.

[Daine]

I'm in a fair sized guild and occasionally run with my guildies

I solo, though not often.

I play with one toon in a static group, one night a week, we've been going for 3 years now and having a blast!

Most of all I PuG. I PuG as a Monk, as A Sorc, as a Cleric and the rest of my army of alts. I PuG adventure and PuG raid, I PuG at peak times and off-peak - this is the lifeblood of MMO's for me, playing with new people who put you in unexpected situations despite the mostly static nature of the game. I PuG because it's fun.

Good players, fun players, cranky and bad players, it's a wonderful, messed-up and inventive tapestry of humanity if you can just keep your cool and admire it for what it is, a snapshot of the human condition. I guarantee if you can PuG and always have fun playing and keep calm in the middle of a storm of rudeness and stupidity whilst still helping those that need it, there's not many social or business situations you can't cope with in the real world. Pugging, it's a skill worth developing...

OP, go back to pugging, forget the silly one month 'challenge'. I'll give you a different challenge instead - pug for a month and ignore the idiots you pug with, help those in need and enjoy the good times, and don't take it too seriously, its just a game!

[lugoman]

there are plenty of social aspects to the game without PUGs

try joining a guild. or make some friends and form a static group.

Why does everyone who insists MMO are a social game complain about PUGs.

I never really understood that way of thinking. Walling yourself off and playing with the same 6 people isn't being social. It is being anti-social.

[sirgog]

I pug all the time. It keeps things interesting because every group is different.

My momma always said a pug is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

PUGging is indeed like eating a box of chocolates.

Sometimes it tastes like ****. Sometimes it's poisoned. But mostly they are good.

And if you spend too much time doing either, you end up fat. :)

[Vellrad]

I pug all the time. It keeps things interesting because every group is different.

My momma always said a pug is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

Pugs are like a box of choccolates
IT WILL KILL YOUR F*** DOG!

[Enoach]

I would not recommend to anyone outside of someone that just does not get along with anyone to avoid PuGs.

The PuG scene is how you meet people that play the game the way you want to play it, find a guild that meets what you are looking for in your entertainment, or meet your social needs.

A Guild of like minded people is good especially if it has lots of depth.

Solo play of any game can become boring and tedious as most require going over the same ground multiple times.

The other thing I like about the PuG scene is getting to learn and teach different ways to "solve" a dungeon completion.

[kierg10]

Pugs are like a box of choccolates
IT WILL KILL YOUR F*** DOG!

lol this is going into my sig.



Also on the topic of pugging/elitism, usually I get good pugs and it's just whatever, but I usually lead them and if people die in my pugs one of two things happen:

Are they a friend? Make fun of them for the rest of the quest or until I die, and if I die run the quest in shame.

Are they a random pugger? Here's a rez, it doesn't matter....it's a video game.


Only time I have wanted to rant and rave at people is when in monastery of the scorpion you get two ranged people standing on opposite sides of the puzzle hitting the same mobs and getting them to mess up the puzzle constantly >:\


PUGs are fine, the true elitists usually don't pug anyways so :3

[Jeremiah179]

I guess I do not agree nor share your experience at all, sorry.

I think you can make almost infinite builds that can easily do all heroic content.

I think you can make almost infinite builds that can contribute to a group and/or do fine on epic normal and hard content.

There is no rule book saying you must build only for solo epic elite... if you think there is, that is the problem.


You do not have to have good self healing, use a hireling... it is only against the rules in the bragging portion of these forums I think?

You do not need trap skills... you just can't handle all trap/chests the same way as if you did have them...

If you step in a quest and some dude zergs ahead and it was against the lfm... the remaining people can allow it or exit, reform and continue without zerger... no one needs to be more than slightly annoyed and then move on with life.

If this happens a lot to you, I find that odd... but maybe jot down names of problem players for yourself and avoid them or in an extreme scenario perhaps move servers.

***

I solo quite a bit, but still find MMO economy, guild, social interaction when I have time, PUGS, etc are all segments of the whole for me. Just because I solo some, does not make it a mediocre solo game suddenly... because 5 minutes later I could be having fun with a bunch of strangers in Fall of Truth or asked to help flag some guildies in gianthold...etc etc

[kierg10]

also TRing is easier if you ignore traps and just get enough reflex to run through traps and ignore them. Just saying :P

[goodspeed]

don't be the strange person that wanders around going "heeey man cana geta invite? Maaaan cmon can't you com back to ya sheep?"

Join a guild that actually uses their fingers to put digital inc to pixels. Join a community. Maybe u'll even get lucky and find that awesome mix of the hard liquer old drunk guy, the girl that's really a soft spoken guy, and then the korean guy who screams profanities you can't understand. And in the middle of all that u'll be the sort of odd man out that adds to the wholeness.

Good luck odd wandering ship person.

[Potatofasf]

... and then the korean guy who screams profanities you can't understand.

It was rude dude!

[Phaeton_Seraph]

I thought this was going to be about the ugly drooling dogs. I'll see myself out.

[goodspeed]

It was rude dude!

lol oddly enough I was thinking of Ken Jeong from the community. Ah hell if only he could be in a guild chat wasted.

[Ungood]

It has been roughly a month now since i swore off pugs due to an invite to "not pug anymore" (since i couldn't stand elitists and jerks all around, it's really one of the most common things i read in this forum, don't pug, go solo, for whatever reason)

15 days into it the time i spent playing the game was half what it usually was, now however i simply don't play anymore.

I mean, what's the point?

This is not a good single player game, i could do far better than ddo in that area.

The customization is non existent, not many choices are available when you have to be a self healing trapster with a flair for dps. TR, ER, IR, are pointless to me, why should i redo the same toon over and over again when i have so little choice in the first place?

Can't raid alone, so most of the gear is out of my reach and what little i could get from the AH i can't upgrade.

Lol i don't even know where to spend my points, i have 2000 odd points and see no new content i care about coming my way (since it's gonna be raids and more important FR raids and i find FR underwhelming at best)

My point? I ain't got one, it's just what happens when you bully people into a corner cause their freedom is less important then yours.

Just think about it before saying "don't pug" to somebody, cause you could be taken on your words and to kill the social part of the game is to kill ddo.

Yah, I gotta agree with you on this man, DDO is really not much in the Solo game, but some people love that. It's not my cup of tea. I need that PUG world, those random people adding some chaos into my groups is the life blood of the game to me.

I'll be honest, elitist that think soloing, or feel they too good to run with the rabble and thus withdraw to only private groups are fine by me, it's probably for the best for everyone they do so, all things said and done.

It takes a pretty high level of Confidence, Maturity, and Security to lead PUGs in most games, and DDO is no exception, even in the twilight years, now at 8 years old, this game remains having some real winners in the Pug arena, the good part is, the real problem people are vastly out numbered by decent players who just want to enjoy a game for a few hours.

[Oxarhamar]

I never really understood that way of thinking. Walling yourself off and playing with the same 6 people isn't being social. It is being anti-social.

its more social than joining random pugs. It actually takes social skills to gain and keep friends. The same skills that I'd wager those complaining about pugs constantly and trying to force more grouping lack or they would have some mates to run with already.

[sirgog]

Pugs are like a box of choccolates
IT WILL KILL YOUR F*** DOG!

You, sir, win the forums.

[Abcchef]

I would not recommend to anyone outside of someone that just does not get along with anyone to avoid PuGs.

The PuG scene is how you meet people that play the game the way you want to play it, find a guild that meets what you are looking for in your entertainment, or meet your social needs.

A Guild of like minded people is good especially if it has lots of depth.

Solo play of any game can become boring and tedious as most require going over the same ground multiple times.

The other thing I like about the PuG scene is getting to learn and teach different ways to "solve" a dungeon completion.

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

its more social than joining random pugs. It actually takes social skills to gain and keep friends. The same skills that I'd wager those complaining about pugs constantly and trying to force more grouping lack or they would have some mates to run with already.

This is utter garbage.
Why are you trying to cram your opinion of how we should play or socialise down our throats?

Don't go making half-baked assumptions about other people's social skills or motives for enjoying playing with strangers. Seriously, you don't seem to comprehend it, so why are you going ahead and drawing conclusions?


I have friends. I'm constantly streamlining my friends list because it's too full to export/import. I have 3 different groups I run with, with three different play styles. (And I have access to a couple of larger private channels.)

Thing is, I don't always want to play the same way all night. I want to run some quests, I want to run at least one raid, I do want to farm a little. And when you're in a non-powergamer PUG, sometimes it's OK for people to die, do stupid ****, and even to wipe. You certainly don't hear me complaining about using raise/rez scrolls until I've used 15 and that's just because it's getting expensive.

Sometimes I can't tolerate losing, sometimes I just don't care, yet certain friends refuse to do anything, even farming, except on Elite. Some are anti-BB.
Some will never call it quits and will wear out their gear to complete a quest they shouldn't even be attempting. Some will let things go easy.
And, at different times, I'm in total agreement with each of those things; just not always at the same time as my friends.
I have my own quirks, sure. I don't enjoy wilderness/explorer areas. I only do them to farm loot (like taps), or XP or clear out a map to make getting to quests I'll be repeating much easier. So when I only have one group of friends on, and they're loving some explorer for the better part of an evening, I'd rather PUG.

More importantly, I have RL friends, family, co-workers &c. I don't really need more attachments.
Sometimes I want to have some quick and dirty NSA fun where we don't have to cater to someone's quirks (and every static party, guild, family and RL group of friends has someone who needs special handling, at least some times).

Personally, I don't want to be part of a guild at the moment, because even "no drama" guilds have more drama than I want to hear about. Just running with a friend's guildies can give me a headache from constant eye rolling once they start talking about guild people and stuff..
And then there are the friends of friends I don't enjoy playing with. You're great, but your buddy irritates me. I'm not going to tell you to ditch him.

There are also times when people I normally love running with, the ones I look for first on my friends list, just irritate me - and other times when I think it's best to give them a break from me.

An hour to work and an hour back - after 8 or so hours of work - has me tired of the public and coworkers. When I get home from work, I often don't want to use voice chat for the first hour.
This allows for two things:
1. I get to destress.
2. I don't have to worry about taking out any frustrations on friends or what not, or slipping up and being rude or something because I'm tired from working hard, and playing nice all day. And it's so much easier to let slip some thoughtless comment with friends in voice chat than it is with strangers in a text channel.

Sometimes I don't want to make decisions about where to go, what chain to do or favour to farm. It's like jumping on a random bus just to see where it goes.

Sometimes, I'm just looking for a chance to run some content my friends have never been interested in running. I thought TRing would force me to play more content to get enough XP, but nope, we got a hamster wheel.

PUGs also provide a chance to get in those favour quests that either I can't solo, or simply don't know well enough to try (not as often as they used to, tho).


Some people just want to play a game.

Most of the names on a full friends list are internet people. It's not RL. You're not going to be taking long hot showers with them, and jut because you think of them as a friend, doesn't mean they ever think of you when you're not online.

Why do some people think it's important to make, and keep, internet friends? Sure, it's nice, but don't they have enough RL friends? Should we wonder at their social skills? (No.)
For some people, the internet is where we have nicks, and anonymity and alter-personae, and we see that everyone is both more real and less real.
Sometimes I'd rather be with the internet people than my eFriends. Sometimes the internet people are actually more fun, for some of the above reasons, plus the sheer randomness.


I've just listed over a dozen reasons and scenarios where it's more than reasonable to want to PUG. And look! I haven't claimed that there was anything wrong with anyone else wanting to run static, or with guilds or solo. I'd wager you couldn't do similar.

[Oxarhamar]

This is utter garbage.
Why are you trying to cram your opinion of how we should play or socialise down our throats?

Don't go making half-baked assumptions about other people's social skills or motives for enjoying playing with strangers. Seriously, you don't seem to comprehend it, so why are you going ahead and drawing conclusions?


I have friends. I'm constantly streamlining my friends list because it's too full to export/import. I have 3 different groups I run with, with three different play styles. (And I have access to a couple of larger private channels.)

Thing is, I don't always want to play the same way all night. I want to run some quests, I want to run at least one raid, I do want to farm a little. And when you're in a non-powergamer PUG, sometimes it's OK for people to die, do stupid ****, and even to wipe. You certainly don't hear me complaining about using raise/rez scrolls until I've used 15 and that's just because it's getting expensive.

Sometimes I can't tolerate losing, sometimes I just don't care, yet certain friends refuse to do anything, even farming, except on Elite. Some are anti-BB.
Some will never call it quits and will wear out their gear to complete a quest they shouldn't even be attempting. Some will let things go easy.
And, at different times, I'm in total agreement with each of those things; just not always at the same time as my friends.
I have my own quirks, sure. I don't enjoy wilderness/explorer areas. I only do them to farm loot (like taps), or XP or clear out a map to make getting to quests I'll be repeating much easier. So when I only have one group of friends on, and they're loving some explorer for the better part of an evening, I'd rather PUG.

More importantly, I have RL friends, family, co-workers &c. I don't really need more attachments.
Sometimes I want to have some quick and dirty NSA fun where we don't have to cater to someone's quirks (and every static party, guild, family and RL group of friends has someone who needs special handling, at least some times).

Personally, I don't want to be part of a guild at the moment, because even "no drama" guilds have more drama than I want to hear about. Just running with a friend's guildies can give me a headache from constant eye rolling once they start talking about guild people and stuff..
And then there are the friends of friends I don't enjoy playing with. You're great, but your buddy irritates me. I'm not going to tell you to ditch him.

There are also times when people I normally love running with, the ones I look for first on my friends list, just irritate me - and other times when I think it's best to give them a break from me.

An hour to work and an hour back - after 8 or so hours of work - has me tired of the public and coworkers. When I get home from work, I often don't want to use voice chat for the first hour.
This allows for two things:
1. I get to destress.
2. I don't have to worry about taking out any frustrations on friends or what not, or slipping up and being rude or something because I'm tired from working hard, and playing nice all day. And it's so much easier to let slip some thoughtless comment with friends in voice chat than it is with strangers in a text channel.

Sometimes I don't want to make decisions about where to go, what chain to do or favour to farm. It's like jumping on a random bus just to see where it goes.

Sometimes, I'm just looking for a chance to run some content my friends have never been interested in running. I thought TRing would force me to play more content to get enough XP, but nope, we got a hamster wheel.

PUGs also provide a chance to get in those favour quests that either I can't solo, or simply don't know well enough to try (not as often as they used to, tho).


Some people just want to play a game.

Most of the names on a full friends list are internet people. It's not RL. You're not going to be taking long hot showers with them, and jut because you think of them as a friend, doesn't mean they ever think of you when you're not online.

Why do some people think it's important to make, and keep, internet friends? Sure, it's nice, but don't they have enough RL friends? Should we wonder at their social skills? (No.)
For some people, the internet is where we have nicks, and anonymity and alter-personae, and we see that everyone is both more real and less real.
Sometimes I'd rather be with the internet people than my eFriends. Sometimes the internet people are actually more fun, for some of the above reasons, plus the sheer randomness.


I've just listed over a dozen reasons and scenarios where it's more than reasonable to want to PUG. And look! I haven't claimed that there was anything wrong with anyone else wanting to run static, or with guilds or solo. I'd wager you couldn't do similar.

I only claimed there is something wrong with those coming here to complain about pugging. Pugging works but, yes you need social skills.

I could say the same for all the force everyone to group people running around. I am not trying to force my play style on anyone. Play however you like but, don't complain about it by trying to force others to play the way you want.

[GroundhogDay]

I only claimed there is something wrong with those coming here to complain about pugging. Pugging works but, yes you need social skills.

I could say the same for all the force everyone to group people running around. I am not trying to force my play style on anyone. Play however you like but, don't complain about it by trying to force others to play the way you want.

You're missing the point on purpose are you? Nobody is trying to force anybody to do anything. With that out of the way, if you join a no zerg lfm and zerg anyway, if you costantly berate someone as a fool for not holding your standards, if you feel the need to insult someone else for whatever reason then you're imposing your play style.

What's worse is that then when people complain about it, instead of an apology, they get "righteous anger" because they are trying to force others, because they are imposing... so they shouldn't PuG, period.

From where i sit that's kinda hypocritical.

Play the way you like, just do it alone if you can't conform to basic human decency and politeness, don't sit in the middle saying "i'm gonna be rude and if you don't like it you can go home cause you ain't got social skills" that's just plain sad.

[humbleroller]

lead the pug.
seriously I used to hate to pug, sometimes still do, but when I have the star it usually goes pretty well and we all have fun.
the great thing about leading is that you dont end up in a party with 4 WF sorcs if you dont want to.

[Pandir]

I dunno i 100% solo by choice and i'm having quite alot of fun, then again i don't play DDO each and every day there's other htings to do.

[Ungood]

And look! I haven't claimed that there was anything wrong with anyone else wanting to run static, or with guilds or solo. I'd wager you couldn't do similar.

I think you would win that wager with almost everyone on this forum as well.

[Vint]

Pugs are like a box of choccolates
IT WILL KILL YOUR F*** DOG!

This is why I turned into a soloist ahole. I love my Beagles more than anything else in the world.

[Oxarhamar]

You're missing the point on purpose are you? Nobody is trying to force anybody to do anything. With that out of the way, if you join a no zerg lfm and zerg anyway, if you costantly berate someone as a fool for not holding your standards, if you feel the need to insult someone else for whatever reason then you're imposing your play style.

What's worse is that then when people complain about it, instead of an apology, they get "righteous anger" because they are trying to force others, because they are imposing... so they shouldn't PuG, period.

From where i sit that's kinda hypocritical.

Play the way you like, just do it alone if you can't conform to basic human decency and politeness, don't sit in the middle saying "i'm gonna be rude and if you don't like it you can go home cause you ain't got social skills" that's just plain sad.

anyone can be insulting without their play style being imposed.

I haven't missed the point your here to complain about those saying don't join pugs because, YOU tried it then YOU quit playing.

[GroundhogDay]

anyone can be insulting without their play style being imposed.

I haven't missed the point your here to complain about those saying don't join pugs because, YOU tried it then YOU quit playing.

You're wrong again, give it another try.

[harry-pancreas]

try another server maybe ?

[Seikojin]

For me, one of the things I like the most about the game is making builds that can solo, or manage on their own and still have a primary class. And as so far, I have had no problems being fine. I don't run EE's, but meh, I don't care about that level of extreme.

[Oxarhamar]

You're wrong again, give it another try.

No need to try again the first 2 lines of your whine say exactly that


It has been roughly a month now since i swore off pugs due to an invite to "not pug anymore" (since i couldn't stand elitists and jerks all around, it's really one of the most common things i read in this forum, don't pug, go solo, for whatever reason)

15 days into it the time i spent playing the game was half what it usually was, now however i simply don't play anymore.

[bsquishwizzy]

This is utter garbage.
Why are you trying to cram your opinion of how we should play or socialise down our throats?




besides the fact that he's (she's) right, you're wrong, and I enjoy watching you suffer from it?




Wait...did I say that last part out loud...?

[bsquishwizzy]

I honestly enjoy PUGs. Every now and again, I enjoy those PUGs gone horribly wrong. You know, the ones with relatively new players trying to zerg a quest that they just...um...can't?

I like getting them to sometimes pull back and regroup, work as a team.

And even now and again I like those PUGs where you get an elitist jerk who goes off on how uber they are, and then dies in some lava somewhere. Mainly because I can post about it here and mock them. I mean really, in hindsight, some of the stupidest **** I've heard from uptight vets has been pure comedy gold. it was annoying at the time. It's funny now that I think back about it.

"YOU NEVER, EVER STONESKIN A CLERIC!!!!"


(That one still makes me chuckle...)

[Oxarhamar]

I honestly enjoy PUGs. Every now and again, I enjoy those PUGs gone horribly wrong. You know, the ones with relatively new players trying to zerg a quest that they just...um...can't?

I like getting them to sometimes pull back and regroup, work as a team.

And even now and again I like those PUGs where you get an elitist jerk who goes off on how uber they are, and then dies in some lava somewhere. Mainly because I can post about it here and mock them. I mean really, in hindsight, some of the stupidest **** I've heard from uptight vets has been pure comedy gold. it was annoying at the time. It's funny now that I think back about it.

"YOU NEVER, EVER STONESKIN A CLERIC!!!!"


(That one still makes me chuckle...)

you mean like the BYOH group I joined had a CLR and a FVS in the group

group leader dies and yells something to the effect of "WHY YOU NO HEAL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

best group ever

[bsquishwizzy]

you mean like the BYOH group I joined had a CLR and a FVS in the group

group leader dies and yells something to the effect of "WHY YOU NO HEAL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

best group ever

Lol!

Yeah, that's a keeper.

[Singular]

Me too... Running with the same people, using the exact same tactics every time is boring... I PUG constantly and very rarely meet jerks

Me too, on Thelanis. In fact, it's unusual that I run into jerks - although I just squelch, leave when the quest is over and move on.

OP: what server are you on?

[Singular]

lead the pug.
seriously I used to hate to pug, sometimes still do, but when I have the star it usually goes pretty well and we all have fun.
the great thing about leading is that you dont end up in a party with 4 WF sorcs if you dont want to.

All caster parties are so awesome. In every aspect.

[Hendrik]

Another one, who never heard about guilds.

I rarely pug, I never solo.
I don't have to do any.

Exactly!

Why put one's self thru Pugtard Hell when you can join, or create, a Guild of like minded people.

[Erdrique]

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread but it seems to me if folks told you not to pug but meeting new people and playing in a group is what you like to do, then I think they were suggesting that you group more with the players in your guild and other friends you have made in game. I actually think there is quite bit a player can accomplish through the game solo. Of course you can't complete the highest level raids but you can accomplish quite a lot if you stay focused. But as others have said, this is an MMO and grouping is the purpose of a MMO.

I refused to enter the pug scene for awhile myself because of the same type of attitudes you had come across but I didn't stop grouping. I just formed groups with my guild and other players I had met previously.

Everything is to personnel preference. I have made a new commitment to pug much more often this year and things have gone quite well. For all of the pug groups I have been part of I have been the party leader, leading pugs through various levels, quests, and explorer zones and everything has been going well. Actually, better than I expected. I hope the pugging scene changes for you, but unfortunately you are going to run into those who refuse to listen to what was posted in LFM.

[FullMetalAlchemist]

So, can you think of a reasonable solution to this perceived problem?

To stay and play
or
To quit and sit

Only Two choices I perceive to be.

[harry-pancreas]

I honestly enjoy PUGs. Every now and again, I enjoy those PUGs gone horribly wrong. You know, the ones with relatively new players trying to zerg a quest that they just...um...can't?

I like getting them to sometimes pull back and regroup, work as a team.

And even now and again I like those PUGs where you get an elitist jerk who goes off on how uber they are, and then dies in some lava somewhere. Mainly because I can post about it here and mock them. I mean really, in hindsight, some of the stupidest **** I've heard from uptight vets has been pure comedy gold. it was annoying at the time. It's funny now that I think back about it.

"YOU NEVER, EVER STONESKIN A CLERIC!!!!"


(That one still makes me chuckle...)

lol i have exactly the same feelings xD

no SS on a cleric ? really ? i do that all the time :P

[jalont]

Most people run away from the LFM panel and quit pugging as soon as they're able. I'm not sure why you're yearning for it so much.

As to customization. Yes, for the most part, due to community trends, all the customization that used to make DDO great is now gone. That doesn't mean YOU can't build what you want. You don't need to run elite content. That's your choice.

[Raithe]

Most people run away from the LFM panel and quit pugging as soon as they're able. I'm not sure why you're yearning for it so much.

It's really quite simple. Guildmates in DDO are more offensive and self-serving than PUGs usually are. Everyone here proclaiming "just find a guild," is probably exactly the type of person the OP is addressing. For instance, take this statement:


Yes, for the most part, due to community trends, all the customization that used to make DDO great is now gone.

"Community trends," heh? You mean intentionally undermining the effectiveness of your teammates through the use of exploits and overpowered intentional mechanics? Ya, those choices are fairly limited (though not limited enough by any means).

If all you want to do is work together as a team at a FPS/strategy game, then DDO has more choices than it ever did before.

[jalont]

It's really quite simple. Guildmates in DDO are more offensive and self-serving than PUGs usually are. Everyone here proclaiming "just find a guild," is probably exactly the type of person the OP is addressing.

I'm not even sure how to respond to this statement. It's clearly the opposite of reality. There's a million different types of guilds. It would be nearly impossible for a person to not be able to find a guild with likeminded people with same goals.


For instance, take this statement:



"Community trends," heh? You mean intentionally undermining the effectiveness of your teammates through the use of exploits and overpowered intentional mechanics? Ya, those choices are fairly limited (though not limited enough by any means).

If all you want to do is work together as a team at a FPS/strategy game, then DDO has more choices than it ever did before.

You sort of proved my point. No one wants to work together as a team... which is why DDO doesn't have more choices. Every toon is exactly the same these days. It's just that the DPS has different visual effects depending on what class you are. It doesn't have to be this way. A person is free to go make a full dps barb and run solo, but they can't do that if they want to get into a group.

[firemedium_jt]

I like the diversity and randomness of pugs. Lots of good info on here about pugs and how much fun it can be with the right expectations about it. I took the negatives and easily turned them upside down into positives also.

When I first played I was that screaming Hjeal Me melee newbie pug. However, I am a Cleric now, for about 4 years, and that gives me more leverage in groups although less so now with all the self healing builds. I spend less time waiting for pug groups to form. Another thing it does when you play a Cleric you use to have to have a thick skin especially with newbie pugs and all the stoned xp toons. Less so now with all the self healing builds, and most epic toons if they are smart have some way to keep themselves healed until u can get to them. Then again many of the good Cleric players have switched to Druid, so they were not thought of as just a healer a year or two ago. That has changed now also due to less Clerics and more multi class Clerics.

You probably don't have to change you class, but maybe your expectations. I will say that you might not have to change your toon to the game, but it helps to tweak it as the game changes, and tweak your tactics and strategy. There are trends in the game and sometimes it is best not to always buck them. It is also a way for Turbine to make money and the player to support the game.

Also understand there are players of all ages on here. The game is slowing down, and we need them all good and bad, so please don't go.

[Vanquishedfo]

I want to be understanding of the OP, pugging is the true life blood for any MMO out there that is not a hard core raid game like WoW. DDO has long been mocked abroad in MMO communities for its infamously intolerant xenophobic cloistered vet/elitists guilds. This is a fact as much as the sun rising each morning. Its simply the way it has been for so long nothing can ever hope to change it.

Nor do really disagree with his statement that there is no real choice in player builds anymore. The so called end game goal of EE Raiding has reached a point where the numbers on your sheet really need to always be the same from character to character or find the content less fun and too much a struggle/grind to use said toon and relegate them to mule status forever after. We all know thats the way it is around here as well. Either dominate or be seen as dead weight, a gimp waste of a party slot, mocked and verbally abused, and made to feel like the game is frankly a very unfriendly place.

And that is ultimately also on turbine. DDO has so many unfriendly design aspects built into its foundation, from the all or nothing success of the quest, to the hap hazard development of viable consumables creating issues like the heavy dependency of healing magic capable classes forced to carry those who pots simply cant cut it for anymore.

DDO simply is poorly designed, poorly developed, and now simply stagnating while putting up a front of shiny tents filled with cheap acts on top of worthless land.