like the legend of the phoenix all ends with beginnings-A new era for Lamannia

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

Greetings!
As you may have heard, we are shutting down Mournlands. What is Mournlands some of you may ask-well, it's our Fight Club. It was a server that had a group of players that the development team used for focus testing, opinions and reality checking the changes to the game. They have been extremely helpful over the years and I think I speak for all of QA and Development in saying thank you. The help from them even recently in the enhancement pass and the TR pass were invaluable. Again thank you Mournlanders, you know who you are.

So from the ashes are new beginnings. Instead of hiding behind a veil of secrecy, the developers, QA and the game will be out in the open on a public test shard. We will be pushing out early builds to Lammania—just as ugly and wart filled as what would have been seen on Mournlands. Devs will communicate directly in the Lamannia part of the forums.

So in essence you, the public, the players, are the new Mournlands. Everyone now has a voice.

The thought is we want to hear more opinions, and as early as possible. There will be some growing pains—Developers –and QA can be a superstitious lot—but over the past 6 months we have become more comfortable talking about things publicly and earlier than ever before. It has been kind of awesome.

Lamma will be run a bit different. It will not be up all the time, and be on a focused schedule. Why? We want developers and employees to have more interaction on the server than we have seen in the past. I admit I have wanted this for a long time.

So here is the first shot. Lamannia will be updated later this week with an Alpha build. This is super early, and you get to see all the half dones, and warts.


The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar and Thunderholme landscape will be open for VIPs. Haunted Halls should take about 1.5 hours to complete if you do no optionals. It will take up to 5 hours if you complete everything. Yes, it is an old school early D&D style module. It's huge. This will be opened up in later Lamannia deployments to everyone, but with VIP's come the perks of first peek.

There are some things that you will notice:


Loot is not finished. Not even close. Matter of fact, most of it is placeholder stuff.
Deco is not finished. Yes some rooms are bare.
Monsters are not balanced yet. Good luck.
VO (Voice overs) work is about half done.




You may come across weird systems and placeholders--half built skills and whatnot. Most should be turned off and hidden, but you never know.
This is a build straight out of development, so there is no optimization yet on the new areas. Some slowdown on landscape is completely possible.
Text is not finished, expect random TBDs and half-finished things.
Gameplay should be fairly complete...enough to get a good idea of what the developers were thinking. We are very interested in bugs-of course- and how things 'feel'. Too hard, easy, long short exc.
Lamannia will only be open though Monday morning. We will reopen it with other stuff in the near future..
Squeak and Kookie will still be around to make life easier.
Usual forum rules apply. Don’t be mean, this does not exclude negative comments, but keep it to the game, not the individual. This will not be tolerated in my little kingdom of the forums.
Please still report bugs. It is super helpful, and yes we do scurry over them on days after a Lamannia push like kobolds and shiny objects.

Hope to see you on there! Help us make DDO the best experience for you and your friends!

[Teh_Troll]

Greetings!
As you may have heard, we are shutting down Mournlands.

Crud . . . where will I get my leaked information now?

[Teh_Troll]

The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar and Thunderholme landscape will be open for VIPs. Haunted Halls should take about 1.5 hours to complete if you do no optionals. It will take up to 5 hours if you complete everything. Yes, it is an old school early D&D style module. It's huge. This will be opened up in later Lamannia deployments to everyone, but with VIP's come the perks of first peek.


Is this one quest . . . that I need to commit 90 minutes to 5 hours to complete? Or is it a chain like everything else in the game?

Will you soon be selling adult diapers in the DDO store?

[Krelar]

Is this one quest . . . that I need to commit 90 minutes to 5 hours to complete? Or is it a chain like everything else in the game?

Will you soon be selling adult diapers in the DDO store?

If it's one quest I'll pretty much never get to see it. :(

Even 90 minutes is pushing it unless an almost full group just happens to be available when I log in. Never getting to see the optionals, ever, would annoy me to no end.

[danotmano1998]

So in essence you, the public, the players, are the new Mournlands. Everyone now has a voice.

The thought is we want to hear more opinions, and as early as possible. There will be some growing pains—Developers –and QA can be a superstitious lot—but over the past 6 months we have become more comfortable talking about things publicly and earlier than ever before. It has been kind of awesome.

We want developers and employees to have more interaction on the server than we have seen in the past. I admit I have wanted this for a long time.


Huzzah! I think this is an EXCELLENT move. Thanks for the transparency.



Haunted Halls should take about 1.5 hours to complete if you do no optionals. It will take up to 5 hours if you complete everything.


WHAT?!?!?

As in, one 5 hour quest?
Or several quests in a chain?

[Coldin]

Alas poor Mourlands. We will miss thee.

[MeliCat]

Oh excellent.

Yeah I've really enjoyed how open the devs have been lately and getting access to the dojo on Lamm - makes things much easier to check out. I look forward to giving feedback where I can :D

[Teh_Troll]

If it's one quest I'll pretty much never get to see it. :(

Even 90 minutes is pushing it unless an almost full group just happens to be available when I log in. Never getting to see the optionals, ever, would annoy me to no end.

That's my issue. CiTW and WGU are kinda hated for their length . . . so Turbine decides to make a 5 HOUR QUEST?

Just wait until people start leaving to re-buff and come back.

Also, expect a team of Monkchers to beat it in 30 minutes on the first night.

[Bladedge]

Greetings!
As you may have heard, we are shutting down Mournlands.

Really I just heard about it today from your post.


Alas poor Mourlands. We will miss thee.

Like anyone will miss it.



Oh excellent.

Yeah I've really enjoyed how open the devs have been lately and getting access to the dojo on Lamm - makes things much easier to check out. I look forward to giving feedback where I can :D

So far it has lasted longer then a month almost up to three. Will the devs get burnt out and then go back to hush hush its a secret.

[ProducerRowan]

Right now Haunted Halls is one primary quest, with additional content that can be unlocked once you've beaten the primary path the first time. The additional content is "Whisper's Crypt", which Ed Greenwood intended for the original module but was not published.

Play it and give us your feedback on the length! There are multiple optionals (in the spirit of the original module).

[Teh_Troll]

Right now Haunted Halls is one primary quest, with additional content that can be unlocked once you've beaten the primary path the first time. The additional content is "Whisper's Crypt", which Ed Greenwood intended for the original module but was not published.

Play it and give us your feedback on the length! There are multiple optionals (in the spirit of the original module).

Level range= ?

I can tell you right now long stuff in a game this . . . it had better pay or we'll hate it.

If multiple hour quests are going to be the standard from now on the 1 hour time limit on ship buffs needs to go.

[UurlockYgmeov]

+ infinity.

Although will mourn the death of Mournelands, this bold new step is what is needed. More communication, earlier, more open, more cooperative.

Cannot say enough.

Now its up to us, the players to step up and deliver on our side. Positively delivered timely Feedback from open-minded experiences.

A rousing round of standing applause for this bold initiative.

Keep it up!

"'Cause I want more.
More, give me more,
Give me more."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tmEZo7fwHU

I for one will be online trying, experiencing and communicating.

One suggestion - please do push out a 'goal' sheet - something that gives us players some idea about what, if anything, the team is looking for feedback on. General feedback on everything is presumed, but like the reincarnation event some giant green arrows pointing us in the direction to focus would be beneficial to everyone.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxeuSVGGMAssqrSfZ3yf6_L_qGA_r4L 8a8X-_UBNT2Z-YqbbWl

[ProducerRowan]

Haunted Halls is Epic, CR 28.

The optionals will have specific loot (but not for this round).

And yep, we're discussing guild ship buffs as well. Haunted Halls is a specific thing (don't expect longer runs as a standard), but I expect we'll take a hard look at buffs and durations when we update guild airships in U22.

[noneill]

This is great news for the game. More eyes on the early stuff will only help.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Right now Haunted Halls is one primary quest, with additional content that can be unlocked once you've beaten the primary path the first time. The additional content is "Whisper's Crypt", which Ed Greenwood intended for the original module but was not published.

Play it and give us your feedback on the length! There are multiple optionals (in the spirit of the original module).

Think we need to hold off knee-jerk reactions and actually see what they have in mind before we start flametrolling them. :D

And I for one don't mind longer quests - I just plan on not having an xp elixir running before entering. :D

I suspect that it is going to be like Delera's or others - with a slayer area.

Remember - there are currently 2 raids planned to be released with U21 - (with lots of green traps. :P ) so HH might be one, and WC might be the other. Might end up being VON5-6 or might be Like Litany - Abbot. (except raid / raid).

So lets concentrate on the positive - the communication !

[Teh_Troll]

. . . when we update guild airships in U22.

Who needs Mournlands for leaks when we have Producer Rowan!

[UurlockYgmeov]

Haunted Halls is Epic, CR 28.

The optionals will have specific loot (but not for this round).

And yep, we're discussing guild ship buffs as well. Haunted Halls is a specific thing (don't expect longer runs as a standard), but I expect we'll take a hard look at buffs and durations when we update guild airships in U22.

+1 for so rapid reply (communication)
+1 for dropping another great teaser!
+1 for guild updates of any kind!

+1 keep it up!

[Jasparion]

I love the idea of a module which can take all night to do. But I wonder how long it will be until players work out how to complete it in 15 minutes and then the XP gets nerfed :)

And will it only give 30 Comms...

[Recared]

And yep, we're discussing guild ship buffs as well. Haunted Halls is a specific thing (don't expect longer runs as a standard), but I expect we'll take a hard look at buffs and durations when we update guild airships in U22.

Thank you!! Extended standard duration would be nice. Also having an optional hookpoint to click at that gives you all ship buffs available (hooked points) at your ship for a certain duration at a certain cost (some platinum or 1 astral shard cost) would be very welcome.

[Shmuel]

Thank you!! Extended standard duration would be nice. Also having an optional hookpoint to click at that gives you all ship buffs available (hooked points) at your ship for a certain duration at a certain cost (some platinum or 1 astral shard cost) would be very welcome.

No astral shards for ship buffs. Let this be one, (and really the only and last) thing that is not contaminated with the astral shard garbage in the game. How about letting players unlock stuff with skill or perseverance, rather than their wallets. Something, anything.

[LeoLionxxx]

Is this one quest . . . that I need to commit 90 minutes to 5 hours to complete? Or is it a chain like everything else in the game?

Will you soon be selling adult diapers in the DDO store?


If it's one quest I'll pretty much never get to see it. :(

Even 90 minutes is pushing it unless an almost full group just happens to be available when I log in. Never getting to see the optionals, ever, would annoy me to no end.

unfortunately, this will be a real issue the players will have to contend with. What if there were developed a way to save your progress is a quest, or even just not boot you out of a quest when you log off?

[LeoLionxxx]

Disregard double post.

[whereispowderedsilve]

I hate 2 be that guy, this is initially good news, but/however when will the in game bug reporting tool be fixed, please help us, help you!

Asking nicely/sincerely/politely! PLEASE! :P! :)! :D! Cheers! It would be greatly appreciated! ProducerRowan & Maj!

http://imgur.com/Iojpuif

http://i.imgur.com/Iojpuif.png

[blerkington]

Hi,

The changes to Lammania seem like a step in the right direction.

Of course, you will need to be able to sort the useful feedback from the less useful, and you will have to be willing to implement change based on feedback. Otherwise it will just be another way to ignore the players and continue making serious mistakes in the game's development.

Please don't turn the player's council and Lammania into a puppet show where you assign the community lots of pointless busy work to give them the impression you are listening, then carry on running the game exactly the same way you have been in recent times. If you do, I promise the backlash on the forums will be very unpleasant when people eventually figure out they've been had. Perhaps it will even affect your bottom line (gasp).

1.5 hours to 5 hours for a single adventure is just not on. At the moment I am able to spend as much time playing as I want, and while I do like longer adventures, it is still too long for me. For people who have family and/or heavy work commitments it just won't work. Are you setting out to build something that from very start will be unavailable to some significant proportion of your customers?

You need to find some way to break the module up into smaller stages, and allow players to resume where they left off without replaying earlier sections or enduring long travel times. Otherwise your new module could easily become a ghost town like other areas of the game where you've built in inconvenience to access the content. And that would be ridiculous, wouldn't it, because it would imply you didn't learn one of the key lessons from Shadowfail.

Similarly, the quality of the module will have to be very high all throughout it to make people want to invest that length of time in a single adventure instead of playing other content. Just being big won't do it, it will have to be fun all the way through for it to be worthwhile to play. And of course, playing a module for anywhere between 1.5 to 5 hours with a small chance at getting some so-so loot right at the end could also be a big disincentive against repeated play.

Ship buffs until death or logging off would help if the plan is to have longer modules. Of course, it's not a problem that needs to be solved if you break your mega-module up into sections and have proximal access to ship portals.

Thanks.

[Fafnir]

I like longer quests. There are too many short and easily forgotten quests at the moment.

5 hours is extreme, of course. But let's see how it plays.

[Texlaw1992]

The original "Haunted Halls of Eveningstar" module is available online for free (just type in "Haunted Halls of Eveningstar pdf" on any search engine).

I took a look at it when the module was first mentioned as coming to DDO. While I appreciated the references to the various NPCs who currently populate DDO's Eveningstar, I wasn't that excited about the contents. There were a lot of secret doors (not a big deal in and of itself) plus lots of hidden loot (which I doubt can be replicated as the module was written). I'm curious to see how the entire module is implemented, especially the "big kobold fight."

Edit: As Maj Mal suggested, I'll keep the map out when I run the quest and see how well things match up.

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

Love for you to sit with that module on your lap as you play it in DDO. Tell me what you think afterwards.

Some clarity--yes anyone can play on Lamannia. This round VIP get early access to the new stuff. Later it will be open to everyone.
Everyone can comment and report issues.

[Havok.cry]

While I haven't actually seen it, if the length does end up being an issue, might I suggest you take a page from the house D depths quests that each quest leads into the next so you can do the chain in one continuous run without ever actually leaving the dungeon, but you can also stop halfway though and then come back.

[sirgog]

Like the idea of a "1.5-5 hour" quest as a one-off.

Some people won't like it, that's fine. It's not designed for that section of the playerbase, just like those enormous wilderness areas that are zerged through by the vast majority of players but are loved by a small minority.

Unlike the wilderness areas, however, it doesn't sound like the people that don't like super-long quests will be forced to run it. (Please don't gate any future content behind Haunted Halls for this reason).


Now for the million dollar question. What makes the quest take so long?

Is it a lot of ground that needs to be covered (ala Proof is in the Poison, Ritual Sacrifice, Coalessence Chamber), fights against large numbers of resilient mobs with extreme HP (ala most EE content, particularly Caught in the Web), timed events (ala Devil Assault or in a different way, Caught in the Web), confusing layouts that take forever to work your way through (ala Inferno of the Damned or Shadow Crypt*), complex puzzles (Titan preraid) or is it something else?




* - yes both of those quests take 5 minutes or less if you know them but both also take a first time group over an hour.

[HatsuharuZ]

Will any release notes be put up for Lammania?

[oradafu]

Like others, I haven't seen what this 1.5 to 5.0 hours quest actually contains.

I'm a bit leery about something being that size, but it can work if the Devs are using Genesis Point with a bit of Litany and WizKing as sort of templates for such a large quest. The quest could be sprawled out like Litany and with several optional end bosses like Genesis Point and Litany. This could make it where the quest is about 1.5 hours to run by just defeating a single end boss. Now if there's a dash of WizKing where after defeating one end boss, players could opt to kill the other end bosses for optional XP (and rewards) then the 5 hours to explore and conquer the quest makes complete sense to me.

I really do hope the quest ends up as I described because if it's just a long quest with some long optionals, then it'll be like all previous long optionals in the game and never done, such as "Find and destroy the Devil base" in Weapon Shipment.

[Silverleafeon]

* - yes both of those quests take 5 minutes or less if you know them but both also take a first time group over an hour.

Been in Crucible Maze for over four hours, and then I discovered DDO Wiki...

[Impaqt]

Right now Haunted Halls is one primary quest, with additional content that can be unlocked once you've beaten the primary path the first time. The additional content is "Whisper's Crypt", which Ed Greenwood intended for the original module but was not published.

Play it and give us your feedback on the length! There are multiple optionals (in the spirit of the original module).

1.5-5 hrs of questing is ridiculous. Unless its going to provide 1/2 million Xp when its all said and done...

[Krelar]

1.5-5 hrs of questing is ridiculous. Unless its going to provide 1/2 million Xp when its all said and done...

and 1000 commendations of valor...

[LOOON375]

* - yes both of those quests take 5 minutes or less if you know them but both also take a first time group over an hour.Yep. I think my friends an I spent 3 hours in Coalescence chamber our first time through. Probably 2 hours of Ritual sacrifice. Let sleeping dust lie can take forever your first time through as well, if you don't fail.lol

[Orratti]

Double posting? Don't tell me you are having trouble using your own forums.

[Ungood]

Wow.

Mournlands is ending, such is the passing of an era.

Lammy is the new Mournlands, such is the Dawn of a New Era.

May the future beam bright.

[maddmatt70]

Devs just make sure the mobs have see invisibility. None of this invisibility and zerge to the end nonsense. If it is going to be a 5 hour quest so be it although after running it a few times it will be fun to zerge through I would imagine just no invis and run please. I can not wait to party speed zerge this quest have to get a few of my dps type characters ready to see how fast can be completed.

[AtomicMew]

Please do not make a 5 hour quest without some possibility of saving progress.

[edgarallanpoe]

I love it. The time limit might not be for everyone, me included, but I love the fact that the devs are looking outside the box for new ideas to keep the game fresh. Would I like to see stop points so I can log out and log back in to continue? Sure... but overall I think this is an amazing idea. Pulling from fantastic D&D material to create cool DDO quests is something I am in full support of.

[nibel]

Like the idea of a "1.5-5 hour" quest as a one-off.

IIRC, Tempest Spine, VoN, Titan, and ADQ pre-raids used to be that lenght when they arrived. Lots of puzzle quests also take that long until someones find out the proper way to finish it (Pit, Shadow Crypt, Tomb of Tormented, Inferno of the Damned, Crucible...).

So, I don't see it as much far-fetched from classic DDO. Just because it have not been used with the recent packs, does not means it never happened before.

[Nascoe]

No astral shards for ship buffs. Let this be one, (and really the only and last) thing that is not contaminated with the astral shard garbage in the game. How about letting players unlock stuff with skill or perseverance, rather than their wallets. Something, anything.

Defenitely feel the same. I think most people would love to work on their guild lvls if it enables them to buy extra long lasting buffs for the ship. And ship buffs are already partly bought with astral shards anyway in many cases, so its not as if Turbine doesn't get theirs already.

[Grosbeak07]

Devs just make sure the mobs have see invisibility. None of this invisibility and zerge to the end nonsense. If it is going to be a 5 hour quest so be it although after running it a few times it will be fun to zerge through I would imagine just no invis and run please. I can not wait to party speed zerge this quest have to get a few of my dps type characters ready to see how fast can be completed.

100% agree.

I'm in favor of anything that makes players actually play content, not skip it. That doesn't mean you can't go fast, just means you don't get to simply avoid everything (the exception being a Rogue).

[Nascoe]

Like the idea of a "1.5-5 hour" quest as a one-off.

Some people won't like it, that's fine. It's not designed for that section of the playerbase, just like those enormous wilderness areas that are zerged through by the vast majority of players but are loved by a small minority.

Unlike the wilderness areas, however, it doesn't sound like the people that don't like super-long quests will be forced to run it. (Please don't gate any future content behind Haunted Halls for this reason).


Now for the million dollar question. What makes the quest take so long?

Is it a lot of ground that needs to be covered (ala Proof is in the Poison, Ritual Sacrifice, Coalessence Chamber), fights against large numbers of resilient mobs with extreme HP (ala most EE content, particularly Caught in the Web), timed events (ala Devil Assault or in a different way, Caught in the Web), confusing layouts that take forever to work your way through (ala Inferno of the Damned or Shadow Crypt*), complex puzzles (Titan preraid) or is it something else?

* - yes both of those quests take 5 minutes or less if you know them but both also take a first time group over an hour.


I also think a long quest as a one off (or is that a 2 off with WGU?) is fine, after all it should be more or less "endgame" for now (lvl 28), so it should feel like something different, right? Off course players must get a feeling of being rewarded for tackling such a giant dungeon though, so that its worth preparing a guild run or having to set up a LFM quite a while up front to be able to fill the group before you TR your character to become even better!

[Raiderone]

Haunted Halls is Epic, CR 28.

The optionals will have specific loot (but not for this round).

And yep, we're discussing guild ship buffs as well. Haunted Halls is a specific thing (don't expect longer runs as a standard), but I expect we'll take a hard look at buffs and durations when we update guild airships in U22.

Yes. please make ship buffs six hours like the guild augments and don't disappear from death. Especially the experience shrine.

[Raiderone]

Devs just make sure the mobs have see invisibility. None of this invisibility and zerge to the end nonsense. If it is going to be a 5 hour quest so be it although after running it a few times it will be fun to zerge through I would imagine just no invis and run please. I can not wait to party speed zerge this quest have to get a few of my dps type characters ready to see how fast can be completed.

Please stick to D&D. Only mobs that should have see Invisibility! It's all about proper mob displacement. A few orange names here and there, red names and maybe even a purple boss.
But something that cannot always be instant killed.

But doing it by creative thinking instead of okay all mobs have death ward and all mobs have see invisibility!!! And not by here's one guy with 1million HP...

[Raoull]

Haunted Halls is Epic, CR 28.

The optionals will have specific loot (but not for this round).

And yep, we're discussing guild ship buffs as well. Haunted Halls is a specific thing (don't expect longer runs as a standard), but I expect we'll take a hard look at buffs and durations when we update guild airships in U22.

Can you look at the buffing process as well as durations?

These layouts are totally nuts, as if they are designed to inconvenience us. The "click here for all loaded buffs" would be ideal, but a relatively sane layout (with ONE zone) would be a reasonable substitute.

[EllisDee37]

Yes. please make ship buffs six hours like the guild augments and don't disappear from death. Especially the experience shrine.I would go another way:

- Permanent buffs (no timer)
- Lose all buffs on death
- Lose all buffs on logout (with a 15 minute grace period for re-logging, similar to the Pendant of Time)

This way you still go to the ship for buffs every session, but now instead of every hour you just do it once when you log in and then you're good to go for the rest of your session. Or until you die. Or run shroud. heh.

[brian14]

Haunted Halls is Epic, CR 28.
That's disappointing. I was under impression it would be in upper teens range.

[Powerhungry]

and the last 5 minutes of that 5 hour quest will be having to protect Coyle and for every moncher in the party his hp get cut in half (and he starts with 10hp).

[merridyan]

That's disappointing. I was under impression it would be in upper teens range.

That would have been an incredibly dumb idea. So you think designing a huge quest that will be done once ever per character for favor is a good idea? Because it wouldn't be ran for gear or XP at that level being so long.

[die]

Please ADD low light and torches.. for scary factor!

[jakeelala]

It would be cool if there were little safe haven/towns/camps you could log out in and come back to an hour or 2 into the long quest to restart where you left off (maybe with a group of buddies). But you can't get there without redoing a quest so you gotta keep going, teleport out, or play through the last quest Backwards! Sort of like a quest with a prequest (Xorian Cipher, Von3), except before you head into the next quest, there's a place with a bank, and AH, and a tavern/vendor you can take a break at.

That would be fun.

This would make it feel like real D&D, which you're going for with the length here.

[Shorlong]

That would have been an incredibly dumb idea. So you think designing a huge quest that will be done once ever per character for favor is a good idea? Because it wouldn't be ran for gear or XP at that level being so long.

Once per character? I'm looking at doing this one and the new wilderness area multiple times!!!

[Seikojin]

Time wise, the estimations are just that. Your build, group composition and tactics will change that time. I am guessing 1.5 hours to be the average, 5 to be the first time, and anything less would be zerging. Now if 1.5 is zerging, I am impressed by their design. :)

I am really pleased they finally put this together in this fashion. My hopes:

We get threads/stickies setup during each release for focused feedback.

We see daily dev/qa activity from employees on the server for feedback and troubleshooting minor issues (bugs blocking progression, stuck spots, etc)

We get a release schedule of some kind, or a calendar of up times for the server so we can put together a play schedule. or test schedule as it were :)

As previewers, I would suggest bugging everything. Placeholders make it to live frequently enough to warrant our involvement in bugging every detail we find. Just sayin. We could make threads for the categories of bug, like stuck spot, broken ladders, bad text, placeholder art, odd mechanic, etc. Obviously due diligence, bug through tickets first, but forum tracking is useful for those running around wondering if it is recorded or not.

[Shorlong]

Time wise, the estimations are just that. Your build, group composition and tactics will change that time. I am guessing 1.5 hours to be the average, 5 to be the first time, and anything less would be zerging. Now if 1.5 is zerging, I am impressed by their design. :)

From what I understand, the 1.5 hours is the first run through. After that, you unlock the extra bits of story that weren't there before. This is where all the optionals and such come in, and that is when it can take up to 5 hours. I assume it will drop down in time, but even zerging, it would be cool if it took over an hour.

[Memnir]

Interesting.


I just wish y'all had done this a year or so ago, before my supply of Give A **** was totally depleted. Now... I just see this and the Player's Council has very measured attempts at getting the players back on your side, not to mention things that should have been done years ago. I see them as maybe being five years too late in coming.


Am I being needlessly cynical - time will tell. But, at this moment in time, I don't necessarily see this as a reason to celebrate. I'm seeing it more as desperation measures - and wondering just how bad things have gotten that y'all are taking the recent steps you've taken.

[RedOrm]

I would go another way:

- Permanent buffs (no timer)
- Lose all buffs on death
- Lose all buffs on logout (with a 15 minute grace period for re-logging, similar to the Pendant of Time)

This way you still go to the ship for buffs every session, but now instead of every hour you just do it once when you log in and then you're good to go for the rest of your session. Or until you die. Or run shroud. heh.

/signed. This, and the single-zone ship. The only separate zone I would like to see on the ship would be cabins aka player housing.

Greetz,
Red Orm

[Teh_Troll]

While the devs are in a sharing mood . . . can we be told if a certain controversial developer is still working on DDO?

[RedOrm]

Placeholders make it to live frequently enough to warrant our involvement in bugging every detail we find.

This is the bit bugging me the most right now: placeholder items and values ARE making it into the real game way too often.
Please, PLEASE insert real items as soon as possible? I've seen tons of items I and/or others would have loved to comment on *before* they came to life, both uber random loot and vendor-junk named loot.
Please, whenever even remotely possible, use values and items that you plan to use on life. We can deal with half-finished rewards just as well as with half-finished rooms and monsters.

Greetz,
Red Orm

[Lonnbeimnech]

If it takes the devs 3 hours to run coal chamber, and this quest is 1.5, I expect players to run it in about 11 min...

[merridyan]

Once per character? I'm looking at doing this one and the new wilderness area multiple times!!!

Please read the post quoted in my response. This person was hoping the quest was in the high teens for its quest level. If this was the case the quest would be ran once for favor per character at the most. The quest is too long to do it for the XP (unless for some reason the XP is actually proportional to the time invested), and no one will run a teen level quest repeatedly for the loot. (Unless it has something like the bauble or torc)

[rest]

Since your other thread got locked (lol) I'll repost.





Loot is not finished. Not even close. Matter of fact, most of it is placeholder stuff.
Monsters are not balanced yet. Good luck.
VO (Voice overs) work is about half done.



You may come across weird systems and placeholders--half built skills and whatnot. Most should be turned off and hidden, but you never know.
This is a build straight out of development, so there is no optimization yet on the new areas. Some slowdown on landscape is completely possible.
Text is not finished, expect random TBDs and half-finished things.
Gameplay should be fairly complete...enough to get a good idea of what the developers were thinking. We are very interested in bugs-of course- and how things 'feel'. Too hard, easy, long short exc.


I'm struggling to see how any of this is different than what gets pushed out to live.


recent loot sucks
lol monster balance
Stormreaver.


And so on

do we really need to list the half finished and abandoned skills and systems?
black loch wants to talk to you
TBDs are still everywhere on the live servers RIGHT NOW. This is not new.
Again, we don't need to list the half finished systems and gameplay. How many workarounds do your players have for shoddy buggy work? Lots.


Good luck!

[count_spicoli]

It would be cool if there were little safe haven/towns/camps you could log out in and come back to an hour or 2 into the long quest to restart where you left off (maybe with a group of buddies). But you can't get there without redoing a quest so you gotta keep going, teleport out, or play through the last quest Backwards! Sort of like a quest with a prequest (Xorian Cipher, Von3), except before you head into the next quest, there's a place with a bank, and AH, and a tavern/vendor you can take a break at.

That would be fun.

This would make it feel like real D&D, which you're going for with the length here.

+1. Like that idea.

[danotmano1998]

I'm wondering if 5 hours of optionals means: You re-enter the quest after the first completion and can choose to do one or more of DIFFERENT optionals.

I.E.

First time thru = 1.5 hrs..

Each optional = approx. 1 hr.

So Joe adventurer can complete it the first time, then on subsequent runs, he can choose optional A, or B, or C, or combinations thereof.
IF Joe should so choose, he can do ALL the optionals for the grand total of 5 hours. Or choose one for 1 hr.
This type of configuration would make sense, in a way it would be like getting multiple replay out of a single mega quest. Kind of like Splinterskull, where each time you progress further.

[Yalinaa]

In the last 8-9 months we got Shadowfell and the 2 high level free quests. Anytime I play I see noone does those quests, or let's say less than 5% of the players online are doing them. So 95% of the players anytime, on any server, are doing something else, older content. The fact that a quest is brand new, doesn't mean it will be run the most - see Jungle of Khyber and the new vampire quest in Eveningstar that noone does.

They will bring a new ~90 min quest for the lvl 26+ range, seriously, do you think it will be as popular, as VoN 3 or Wizking? We will check it of course, for 2-4 weeks it will be run, maybe it will be fun as well, but after that, I think most of us go back to MoTu, eGH and the daily xp runs. Unless the loot in the new quest is double awesome. I smell something big there, like an epic returning dart and probably a tower shield we all wanna farm for all characters. (Don't fail your sarcasm check here.)

[fool101]

I'm wondering if 5 hours of optionals means: You re-enter the quest after the first completion and can choose to do one or more of DIFFERENT optionals.

I.E.

First time thru = 1.5 hrs..

Each optional = approx. 1 hr.

So Joe adventurer can complete it the first time, then on subsequent runs, he can choose optional A, or B, or C, or combinations thereof.
IF Joe should so choose, he can do ALL the optionals for the grand total of 5 hours. Or choose one for 1 hr.
This type of configuration would make sense, in a way it would be like getting multiple replay out of a single mega quest. Kind of like Splinterskull, where each time you progress further.


Maybe like Litany...except without repeating the beginning part each time.

[count_spicoli]

In the last 8-9 months we got Shadowfell and the 2 high level free quests. Anytime I play I see noone does those quests, or let's say less than 5% of the players online are doing them. So 95% of the players anytime, on any server, are doing something else, older content. The fact that a quest is brand new, doesn't mean it will be run the most - see Jungle of Khyber and the new vampire quest in Eveningstar that noone does.

They will bring a new ~90 min quest for the lvl 26+ range, seriously, do you think it will be as popular, as VoN 3 or Wizking? We will check it of course, for 2-4 weeks it will be run, maybe it will be fun as well, but after that, I think most of us go back to MoTu, eGH and the daily xp runs. Unless the loot in the new quest is double awesome. I smell something big there, like an epic returning dart and probably a tower shield we all wanna farm for all characters. (Don't fail your sarcasm check here.)

Give the new quests 200k xp and they will be ran I assure you. If i have to run Von3 1 more time I'll puke. I like it at level 11. To be honest i see as many lfms for new stuff as anything else minus von 3 xp runs.

[Qhualor]

In the last 8-9 months we got Shadowfell and the 2 high level free quests. Anytime I play I see noone does those quests, or let's say less than 5% of the players online are doing them. So 95% of the players anytime, on any server, are doing something else, older content. The fact that a quest is brand new, doesn't mean it will be run the most - see Jungle of Khyber and the new vampire quest in Eveningstar that noone does.

They will bring a new ~90 min quest for the lvl 26+ range, seriously, do you think it will be as popular, as VoN 3 or Wizking? We will check it of course, for 2-4 weeks it will be run, maybe it will be fun as well, but after that, I think most of us go back to MoTu, eGH and the daily xp runs. Unless the loot in the new quest is double awesome. I smell something big there, like an epic returning dart and probably a tower shield we all wanna farm for all characters. (Don't fail your sarcasm check here.)

Its obviously intentional to be a long quest and it sounds like old skool D&D that never made it into the game originally. It sounds very exciting to me for what little we know. But don't worry, there are always players out there that intentionally look for the fast completions in each quest and some will share how. Unless its fight club, but eventually we find out anyways.

The biggest reason why Von 3 and Wiz King are popular is because of the fast xp that can be had and even if you didn't play xp/min, its still a lot of xp. If changes were so that there were more requirements for quest completion or the xp was more in line with other quests in that level range than they wouldn't be ax popular. Some other high xp quests would be instead.

[Thrudh]

IIRC, Tempest Spine, VoN, Titan, and ADQ pre-raids used to be that lenght when they arrived. Lots of puzzle quests also take that long until someones find out the proper way to finish it (Pit, Shadow Crypt, Tomb of Tormented, Inferno of the Damned, Crucible...).

So, I don't see it as much far-fetched from classic DDO. Just because it have not been used with the recent packs, does not means it never happened before.

Heck, I spent 3 hours in Madstons Crater the first night Gianthold was released.

[Ungood]

It would be cool if there were little safe haven/towns/camps you could log out in and come back to an hour or 2 into the long quest to restart where you left off (maybe with a group of buddies). But you can't get there without redoing a quest so you gotta keep going, teleport out, or play through the last quest Backwards! Sort of like a quest with a prequest (Xorian Cipher, Von3), except before you head into the next quest, there's a place with a bank, and AH, and a tavern/vendor you can take a break at.

This would be called a "series" quest, or "Quest Arc"

Many quests do this already, like: Lordsmarch, Sharn, Delera's, Sentinels, etc, etc, where you "stop in town" after each part, and continue on.

Or Like.. Tangleroot. where you just teleport back to the quest after going to town/bar to take care of your things.

or Like Thernal that has a small bar right there in off the explorer zone, where you can buy, sell, repair.

[PookaWitch]

The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar and Thunderholme landscape will be open for VIPs. Haunted Halls should take about 1.5 hours to complete if you do no optionals. It will take up to 5 hours if you complete everything. Yes, it is an old school early D&D style module. It's huge. This will be opened up in later Lamannia deployments to everyone, but with VIP's come the perks of first peek.


:O *flails happily*

Okay, so for the last couple of weeks (and for my birthday present, I always get a full day of a D&D game as part of my birthday present) my husband was running our characters through the Towers of Power from Greyhawk, the AD&D version being converted to 3.5 as we went. Many times we kept bringing up about how it's too bad that there aren't classic, long running, take all day to go through adventures/quests on DDO like many of the old classic PnP games. Sure there were quest chains, but it didn't quite have the same feel to it.

Seriously, I love you guys! I find that DDO never fails to deliver for me. As a very long time PnP roleplayer what I always look for in this game, more then anything, is feeling like I'm being pulled right into the setting. You guys seriously delivered it for me when Forgotten Realms was released (Eveningstar really FELT like Eveningstar! And the Demonweb was like the old Spider Queen adventure come to life for me! It was just perfect. <3 ). And now, you're bringing in huge, dungeon crawl quests/adventures that you need to prep for and take all day to do.

There are players who want their perfect character builds, there are players who play for the loot, there are players to play to socialize (and probably many more variants that I'm not going to list everything of)... but I'm one of the players who is a long time fan of D&D and love seeing it brought to life, which you guys seriously do perfectly.

I'm so happy, thank you. ^_^

[Wizza]

I really hope that this "5 hours long quest if you do all the optionals":

1) Is an estimated time for the first time
2) Gives us some kind of "saving checkpoint" (like Litany: you do it and it is recorded for the next time)
3) Won't have ANY SORT OF WILDERNESS TO RUN THROUGH
4) Won't have the main raid loot in any of the optionals
5) Will have a crafting system like LoB, which incentivates runs on higher difficulties.

Really, 5 hours for a quest seems a bit too much even for (us) elitists with a "must-have" mindset.

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

While the devs are in a sharing mood . . . can we be told if a certain controversial developer is still working on DDO?


I'm still here.

[Ovrad]

I'm still here.

He wasn't talking about you, we like you MajMal. :)

It was someone less popular he was referring to...

[Failedlegend]

When I first saw the title I was a little worried but after reading the details all I could say was DAAAAAMMMN!!! between this and the player's council (fingers crossed I get to represent the off the wall aka gimp players/builds) it seems u gus are really commited to pulling back the curtains of mystery on DDO and it makes me really interested in the future...hopefully it leads to more changes like Protection becoming the much superior War Priest as opposed to EKs "changes based on feedback"

I'm cautiously optimistic at this point.

One question though...is this now VIP only I see something about VIP mentioned in there and I'm not sure if its means the VIPs will get on like a day earl or if it means premiums are locked out of Lama now.

[Atremus]

Will there be any incentive or bonuses to the general player base (VIP or not) to actually log into Lamannia and test and report when we you want things tested? I would hate for the new model for testing to be a ghost town. Otherwise, I like it. Looking forward to seeing what you guys have in store for us this year.

[ProducerRowan]

Can you look at the buffing process as well as durations?

These layouts are totally nuts, as if they are designed to inconvenience us. The "click here for all loaded buffs" would be ideal, but a relatively sane layout (with ONE zone) would be a reasonable substitute.

Yes, consolidating the buffs to one interactive object is part of the plan.

[Hafeal]

Give the new quests 200k xp and they will be ran I assure you.

This is an example of low expectation, imo.

If you run Von3 in say, 15 mins for 90K (assuming an upcoming ill-thought out reduction) and you have to run a level 27 quest for 1.5 hours - that quest better be worth 500k+. And, no, I'm not kidding.

[HatsuharuZ]

Yes, consolidating the buffs to one interactive object is part of the plan.

Wonderful!


Question about Lammania: Will there be release notes put up each time the server is opened?

Question about Bards: Will there be more changes to bard enhancement in the future? They are a bit messy right now.

[UurlockYgmeov]

One question though...is this now VIP only I see something about VIP mentioned in there and I'm not sure if its means the VIPs will get on like a day earl or if it means premiums are locked out of Lama now.

Lamda open to all; Haunted Halls and WC (the quests/raids) open to just VIP's to start. will be other new stuff to test outside of the new raid/quests.

[ProducerRowan]

I really hope that this "5 hours long quest if you do all the optionals":

1) Is an estimated time for the first time
2) Gives us some kind of "saving checkpoint" (like Litany: you do it and it is recorded for the next time)
3) Won't have ANY SORT OF WILDERNESS TO RUN THROUGH
4) Won't have the main raid loot in any of the optionals
5) Will have a crafting system like LoB, which incentivates runs on higher difficulties.

Really, 5 hours for a quest seems a bit too much even for (us) elitists with a "must-have" mindset.

I'll pass this on to PurpleFooz (Haunted Halls is his baby). You can also expect a longer post about design intentions for Haunted Halls from him.

5 hours is an extreme quoted from our first pass of internal testers. This weekend will give us a more realistic answer.

Primarily, there are just a lot of optional encounters. The dungeon is all indoors and will probably get you lost on the first run. Secret Doors and Traps will be a big deal. The kobolds with the poisoned, mounted gatling crossbow are a bit ridiculous. Enjoy!

[Drwaz99]

Yes, consolidating the buffs to one interactive object is part of the plan.

Thank you baby Jesus!

[HatsuharuZ]

I'm still here.

I think they may have been referring to FoS. Rumor is that he got fired after his last post in the forums.

I don't see how he'd be controversial, though. FoS makes some very informative posts. It's Vargouille who tends to get bitten, so to speak, whenever he posts...

[enochiancub]

I think they may have been referring to FoS. Rumor is that he got fired after his last post in the forums.

I don't see how he'd be controversial, though. FoS makes some very informative posts. It's Vargouille who tends to get bitten, so to speak, whenever he posts...

Why does that rumor persist after we've been told that person is still at Turbine though? I know a lot of these people love manufacturing this kind of petty BS, I just don't get why.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Yes, consolidating the buffs to one interactive object is part of the plan.


Another teasing spoiler! :D

greatly appreciated :D

and lay off the negative attacks; we don't know everything that happened or what Feather was instructed to do; just the result; so if you don't know the root causes to the result you CANNOT complain about one person in particular - rather just complain about the results, which Turbine has continued to address.

We want MORE communication not less. and attacking one particular dev because they were involved with something that was / is very unpopular won't help the lines of communication; if anything negativity will only spurn dev communication.

[ComicRelief]

I very much like the concept of having old D&D modules inside of DDO.

The problems I have with having one quest with an estimated duration of 1.5 - 5 hours to complete - assuming there is no mechanism in place for periodic "saving" of progress - are:

1) Not everybody is going to have that kind of time to just run one quest.
2) What happens if you're near the very end, but then you're DC'd for an extended period (i.e. longer than the 5 minute window)? You would now have to re-run the entire quest, no?
3) No matter how fun the quest may be, no matter how many times you'd *LIKE* to re-run it, unless you're running solo, it's going to be awfully hard to coordinate such a big chunk of time between multiple players.

I have no idea if it's possible or not, given the limitations of existing code, but if there were some "resting points" that had to be entered that essenitally are "public areas" where people could log out for extended periods of time and then "resume" from there would be close to "ideal".

Love the concept, but really could use some way of "saving" progress, periodically.

But then, my opinion is worth excatly what you paid for it.
;)

-----
Edit: I also ment to mention that back in my PnP days, rarely would we have just one gaming session for a quest. Even with "marathon" gaming sessions, we would often take a couple of sessions to complete even just one quest (I am NOT taking about an entire campaing; I am talking one, single quest). So "requiring" one session to run a "marathon quest" inside of DDO is, as implied, not ideal.

Still, I know there are limitations to what can - or even should - be done, but if it is at all technically possible to provide some type of periodic progress saving, please consider adding it.
;)

[SisAmethyst]

Very nice and long overdue, so I really like that change and look positive into the future!



One suggestion - please do push out a 'goal' sheet - something that gives us players some idea about what, if anything, the team is looking for feedback on. General feedback on everything is presumed, but like the reincarnation event some giant green arrows pointing us in the direction to focus would be beneficial to everyone.
Agreed. This would be a good idea.

Given the feedback section on the Player's Council application, I suspect we'll see something along these lines by the time the new build goes live on Lamannia.

I second this, as it help to create dedicated and qualitative feedback. Due to time constraints I didn't applied for the Council but I am sure in combination with it others may give quick and good feedback to achieve a qualitative better and stable final build for the whole player base on the live servers!

[UurlockYgmeov]

I'll pass this on to PurpleFooz (Haunted Halls is his baby). You can also expect a longer post about design intentions for Haunted Halls from him.

5 hours is an extreme quoted from our first pass of internal testers. This weekend will give us a more realistic answer.

Primarily, there are just a lot of optional encounters. The dungeon is all indoors and will probably get you lost on the first run. Secret Doors and Traps will be a big deal. The kobolds with the poisoned, mounted gatling crossbow are a bit ridiculous. Enjoy!

Go PurpleFooz!!!!

and woot! something/one to give arty repeaters a run for their money! oh, they are pointing at us? RUN AWAY!

[Wizza]

I'll pass this on to PurpleFooz (Haunted Halls is his baby). You can also expect a longer post about design intentions for Haunted Halls from him.

5 hours is an extreme quoted from our first pass of internal testers. This weekend will give us a more realistic answer.

Primarily, there are just a lot of optional encounters. The dungeon is all indoors and will probably get you lost on the first run. Secret Doors and Traps will be a big deal. The kobolds with the poisoned, mounted gatling crossbow are a bit ridiculous. Enjoy!

Cool. I like traps and secret doors.

Will wait for PF post then. Tell him to post it right nao.

[HatsuharuZ]

I'll pass this on to PurpleFooz (Haunted Halls is his baby). You can also expect a longer post about design intentions for Haunted Halls from him.

5 hours is an extreme quoted from our first pass of internal testers. This weekend will give us a more realistic answer.

Primarily, there are just a lot of optional encounters. The dungeon is all indoors and will probably get you lost on the first run. Secret Doors and Traps will be a big deal. The kobolds with the poisoned, mounted gatling crossbow are a bit ridiculous. Enjoy!

Kobolds.... with a gatling gun... in an indoor quest... *head kersplodes*

I gotta see that!

[Ralmeth]

The changes sound great! As for the upcoming Haunted Halls, I'm very excited. It will be like a PnP adventure of old. Though when I mentioned to my wife that I wanted to schedule a 5 hr play session (probably 6 so we can take breaks) she looked at me like I had two heads, and I will owe her big! ;) Anyways, with a quest this long people (at least i will) will want to coordinate and schedule a group way in advance, just like we used to do back in my 'ol PnP days. Love it!

[RedOrm]

Kobolds.... with a gatling gun... in an indoor quest... *head kersplodes*

I gotta see that!

Ah, but can they sneak attack with them?

Greetz,
Red Orm

[LeoLionxxx]

This quest is sounding much too good to be just LV 28 Epic. Is there any chance it could also have a heroic version?
Or better yet, a mechanic similar to Devil Assault with dynamic level ranges?

I suggest this because it sounds like a good, iconic module like this could attract back the PnP crowd, but they'll want to spend a relatively short time before actually getting to experience it. As well, if it turns out as fun as it's sounding, people will want to play it ASAP.

[count_spicoli]

This is an example of low expectation, imo.

If you run Von3 in say, 15 mins for 90K (assuming an upcoming ill-thought out reduction) and you have to run a level 27 quest for 1.5 hours - that quest better be worth 500k+. And, no, I'm not kidding.

Ha ha wouldn't say no to that. But I was referring to some of the newer quests like wgu.

[oradafu]

This is an example of low expectation, imo.

If you run Von3 in say, 15 mins for 90K (assuming an upcoming ill-thought out reduction) and you have to run a level 27 quest for 1.5 hours - that quest better be worth 500k+. And, no, I'm not kidding.

If there are alot of optionals and many of them are on the main path to an end boss, the base XP doesn't need to be 500k to be worth while. The optionals on the way to the end boss need to be a nice chunk though, at least 25k worth if not more. This way even when players fail at this long quest, there is some progress. This should be incentive enough to peel a chunk of people away from current XP/min into the new quest.

As for the side optionals, those should have an even larger chunk of XP. Harder the objective, bigger the pay out. Further away from the main goal, bigger the pay out. More obsticles to bypass, bigger the payout. Plus the more of them the better for players, both in exploring and actually doing them.

But these are all common sense things that I've been saying for years and telling the Devs for years on Lamannia that have been gone unheard and unlistened to. Look at the various horrible quests that were released, especially in the past year, that could be semi-fixed if the Devs sprinkled in mandatory objectives that gave XP through the quest. All those minibosses thrown into the players' paths to slow us down but give no XP could have been giving decent XP like in quests like Von3 and Tears. Killing large numbers of mobs giving additional XP for hitting a certain quota could have been added to several quests, such as found in Framework and Stormcleave Outpost. There's just a ton of ways to prop up bad quests better via this way, while also increasing the incentive to run good quests by throw more bones to players like this.

[Teh_Troll]

Why does that rumor persist after we've been told that person is still at Turbine though? I know a lot of these people love manufacturing this kind of petty BS, I just don't get why.

Don't care if he's still at Turbine.

I want to know if he's done messing with DDO. We've run out of non-broken stuff for him to "fix."

[murf201]

I'll pass this on to PurpleFooz (Haunted Halls is his baby). You can also expect a longer post about design intentions for Haunted Halls from him.

5 hours is an extreme quoted from our first pass of internal testers. This weekend will give us a more realistic answer.

Primarily, there are just a lot of optional encounters. The dungeon is all indoors and will probably get you lost on the first run. Secret Doors and Traps will be a big deal. The kobolds with the poisoned, mounted gatling crossbow are a bit ridiculous. Enjoy!

Yeah theres more then a few sides to every dice !
I for one dont mind a super long quest with optionals to make it even longer !

And why shouldnt there be named loot in optional chests , Thats how you incentivise running those optionals !

And no there doesn't need to be a crafting system like lob , just make a few more variations into a barter window , with unique upgrades and abilities and such !!

[Ovrad]

The kobolds with the poisoned, mounted gatling crossbow are a bit ridiculous. Enjoy!

So, we're gonna get a turret section? :D

Switching escort missions for another awful and overused game mechanic wouldn't surprise me to be honest. We already have linear quests, p2w, always online, long load screens and no saving. ;)

[rest]

I'll pass this on to PurpleFooz (Haunted Halls is his baby). You can also expect a longer post about design intentions for Haunted Halls from him.

5 hours is an extreme quoted from our first pass of internal testers. This weekend will give us a more realistic answer.

Primarily, there are just a lot of optional encounters. The dungeon is all indoors and will probably get you lost on the first run. Secret Doors and Traps will be a big deal. The kobolds with the poisoned, mounted gatling crossbow are a bit ridiculous. Enjoy!

Wait is PurpleFooz the guy who screwed up secret doors?


Great.

[oradafu]

Wait is PurpleFooz the guy who screwed up secret doors?


Great.

To be fair, the messing up the secret doors was for this update. So we'll see if it was worth it soon. Or, as I suspect, messing with the mechanics of something that actual worked was stupid since there are at least two dozen ways of hiding secret doors and hundreds of combinations that the Devs ignored for years.

[Hafeal]

If there are alot of optionals and many of them are on the main path to an end boss, the base XP doesn't need to be 500k to be worth while. The optionals on the way to the end boss need to be a nice chunk though, at least 25k worth if not more. T


Yes, I agree. The 500K+ can be split up among the optionals and 'min-goals' - but it needs to be there.

As you, and many others, have said putting out new quests with sub-standard xp (and let's not judge the loot yet) is a sure fire way to get your expansion titled with a 'fail' in it among the children.

Unlike other things - like, say, commendations - it is better to give too much xp for a release rather than too little. Because the devs are always, and have always, been more likely to quickly nerf than to buff.

[Teh_Troll]

To be fair, the messing up the secret doors was for this update. So we'll see if it was worth it soon. Or, as I suspect, messing with the mechanics of something that actual worked was stupid since there are at least two dozen ways of hiding secret doors and hundreds of combinations that the Devs ignored for years.

It's is insanely stupid that poison or doors would be ANY kind of an obstacle for a level 28 character.

Don't get my started on the CR60 wolves.

[Hathorian]

Yes, consolidating the buffs to one interactive object is part of the plan.

sweet bodements good!!

[oradafu]

It's is insanely stupid that poison or doors would be ANY kind of an obstacle for a level 28 character.

Don't get my started on the CR60 wolves.

Not interested in any quests that feature bloated CR/HP vermin, common animals and commoners after all those Devil, Demon and Quori invasions in Eberron, the defeat of a godess in Forgotten Realms and slaying of Dragons in both Realms? I wonder why?

[Qhualor]

Yes, I agree. The 500K+ can be split up among the optionals and 'min-goals' - but it needs to be there.

As you, and many others, have said putting out new quests with sub-standard xp (and let's not judge the loot yet) is a sure fire way to get your expansion titled with a 'fail' in it among the children.

Unlike other things - like, say, commendations - it is better to give too much xp for a release rather than too little. Because the devs are always, and have always, been more likely to quickly nerf than to buff.

poor xp makes it so players will only run the quests for loot worth pursuing, favor and flagging if required.

high xp will be popular even if the loot is poor.

down size the xp if its too high than we have rants similar to the rants on Von 3 xp change coming. people have already said if the xp is not worth farming they will move on to farming other high xp quests like Wiz King. people ranted about Vol xp decrease, but Inferno got buffed up even though it really didn't need it. regardless if its xp/min or not, if the xp is really good people will run it no problem. I say just make the xp good to start off with and leave it. they gots a new formula now :)

[soloist12]

Secret Doors and Traps will be a big deal.

Things like this tempt me to renew my ViP. You can have difficulty besides monster hp and dmg while still maintaining group coordination through class individuality.

[Epitome]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5Cp55MvX54

[Hawkwier]

I think a 1.5-5 hour quest is a fantastic idea, and adds to the diversity of the game.

We need a few more quests like this: longer, tougher, immersive, and giving a real sense of achievement on completion. And so what if your ship-buffs are gonna run out half-way through - just adds to the challenge/tension IMO! Voiceover: "Your guild's influence is useless here, young hero, MWAHAHAHAH..!"

Devs shouldn't fall into the trap of necessarily making it xp or comms "efficient" - there are plenty of quests for zergers and xp-grinders already. Dont make this just another one. Not everyone plays like forum fanatics. And (shockeroonie!) not everyone wants to either.

Never played a pnp module in my life within 10 minutes, or a session in less than 2 hours for that matter, and always had fun, and always made RL time to do it too - this seems to be trying to get back to that spirit. GREAT!

Quests should be more than just a delivery vehicle for xp, comms, and uberloot - Sure, make the rewards fair, but make it fun, unrepetitive, and immersive, and they will come.

My only reservation is CR-28, which will exclude access to a lot of toons - Might you consider a heroic option too, or, longer -term, make another quest of similar length for a lower level? Like I say, 3 or 4 such quests scattered throughout the game would be fantastic.

Not gonna be everyone's cup of tea, accepted - but then, neither is zerging - there's room for both! :)

[DogMania]

The kobolds with the poisoned, mounted gatling crossbow are a bit ridiculous. Enjoy!

Now my Arti wants to know can he mount one of these in replacement for his Needle, If its heavy ill make sure I get a +5 str tome LOL

[Gizeh]

Yes, consolidating the buffs to one interactive object is part of the plan.

Please please please, pretty please with sugar on top, officially name that "one interactive object" The Easy Button! :D

[UurlockYgmeov]

Secret Doors and Traps will be a big deal.

GOOD! time of the epic level level one secret door clicky finding everything and making rogue skills irrelevant needs to come to a close. Traps need to be a big deal and yes, having a live character with rogue skills is desirable.

[patang01]

I'll pass this on to PurpleFooz (Haunted Halls is his baby). You can also expect a longer post about design intentions for Haunted Halls from him.

5 hours is an extreme quoted from our first pass of internal testers. This weekend will give us a more realistic answer.

Primarily, there are just a lot of optional encounters. The dungeon is all indoors and will probably get you lost on the first run. Secret Doors and Traps will be a big deal. The kobolds with the poisoned, mounted gatling crossbow are a bit ridiculous. Enjoy!

Here's the problem with the idea of really long quests. Not just because some people don't have 2-3 hours doing one quests (that's the least problem) but blowing pots and jewel timers on getting lost in a maze of a quest seems unattractive. Especially since it's hard to justify wasting hours of a pot running for what is most likely not as rewarding as running 3-4 30 minute quests for the same time frame.
I get what you're doing - this is a unique quest but it's still a drain on timed features like potions, jewels etc.

[Shorlong]

Here's the problem with the idea of really long quests. Not just because some people don't have 2-3 hours doing one quests (that's the least problem) but blowing pots and jewel timers on getting lost in a maze of a quest seems unattractive. Especially since it's hard to justify wasting hours of a pot running for what is most likely not as rewarding as running 3-4 30 minute quests for the same time frame.
I get what you're doing - this is a unique quest but it's still a drain on timed features like potions, jewels etc.

I have a very easy solution for this problem......

Don't drink a potion or put on a jewel before going into this quest!

[Tscheuss]

I have a very easy solution for this problem......

Don't drink a potion or put on a jewel before going into this quest!

LMBO

That was my first thought, too. :D

[EllisDee37]

Devs, just for context would it be fair to say that using the same baseline that came up with "1.5 to 5 hours" for this new quest, it would have been "1 to 3 hours" if describing Coalescence Chamber?

In other words, this new quest will be 1.5x or 2x the length of coal?

[LrdSlvrhnd]

Yes, consolidating the buffs to one interactive object is part of the plan.

I just fangasm'd a bit here. Seriously, my cat was looking at me funny for the deific-from-on-high "Ahhhhhhhhhhh!" note coming from my mouth. PLEASE tell me there is no plan on making it require astral shards. Plat's fine (though less than ideal); AS are not. Also, please tell me it's an object to click on, not a person to talk to, because my druid's wolf would like some buffs.

Will Lama bugs that get reported actually get fixed rather than released to live?

I like - actually, LOVE - the idea of a massive long quest, though I suspect finding LFMs for it will be an issue (and no, "run it with guildies!" isn't an option in my case).

[Icywave]

Don't get my started on the CR60 wolves.

or Rats...

[Silverleafeon]

I'm still here.

With a sense of humor too...lol +1

[Silverleafeon]

5 hours is an extreme quoted from our first pass of internal testers. This weekend will give us a more realistic answer.

Primarily, there are just a lot of optional encounters. The dungeon is all indoors and will probably get you lost on the first run. Secret Doors and Traps will be a big deal. The kobolds with the poisoned, mounted gatling crossbow are a bit ridiculous. Enjoy!

Well, I actually spent about 5 hours inside the crucible maze...the good old days...

[Silverleafeon]

or Rats...

Now you know why epic elite traps hit sooooo hard, its a major pest control problem...

[Silverleafeon]

Yes, consolidating the buffs to one interactive object is part of the plan.

Wow, a lot coming up...I wonder if expire upon death would be asking too much?
Rewarding flawless in a new way?

[Silverleafeon]

This (https://twitter.com/producerglin/status/425740349542514690) might be of interest to you.

@producerglin: Epic Completionist, coming to an alpha #Lamannia. The Fatespinner will tell you more when you ask about Twists of Fate. #soonTM


Sounds very interesting.


I wonder....
The Devs said to go to Fatespinner and talk to her about the Epic Completionist feat.

What about her giving options such as:

Choose one of the below:

Option A ~ You have earned enough epic past lives to gain a fourth twist slot or whatever

Option B ~ You have earned enough epic past lives and heroic past lives to gain a fourth twist slot
and You win DDO! You've leveled to 20 in every class, and for your effort can take this feat to get a +2 bonus to all skills and ability scores. When more classes are added, this feat will deactivate and you will need to gain those past lives before this benefit reactivates.
{This does not stack with the completionist feat.}

Options C ~ Whatever...


Combining Completionist with Epic Completionist?
If you have both completionist is auto granted?



Anyway, excited about this.

[Silverleafeon]

Wow.

Mournlands is ending, such is the passing of an era.

Lammy is the new Mournlands, such is the Dawn of a New Era.

May the future beam bright.

Indeed

[DogMania]

@producerglin: Epic Completionist, coming to an alpha #Lamannia. The Fatespinner will tell you more when you ask about Twists of Fate. #soonTM


Sounds very interesting.


I wonder....
The Devs said to go to Fatespinner and talk to her about the Epic Completionist feat.

What about her giving options such as:

Choose one of the below:

Option A ~ You have earned enough epic past lives to gain a fourth twist slot or whatever

Option B ~ You have earned enough epic past lives and heroic past lives to gain a fourth twist slot
and You win DDO! You've leveled to 20 in every class, and for your effort can take this feat to get a +2 bonus to all skills and ability scores. When more classes are added, this feat will deactivate and you will need to gain those past lives before this benefit reactivates.
{This does not stack with the completionist feat.}

Options C ~ Whatever...


Combining Completionist with Epic Completionist?
If you have both completionist is auto granted?



Anyway, excited about this.
Well as I said previously I am hoping that an extra twist slot will come with the new Divine due the increase in fate points from the destiny as well as Epic Past Lives. and whilst on this subject it would be nice if heroic completionist would be auto granted for x1 for all lives, x 1.5 for all past lives x 2 and x 2 for all past lives x 3

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Can't wait to run it, this makes me want to keep my VIP status. Hopefully we will get to see some of the new airships soon (TM)!!!

[Seikojin]

I'll pass this on to PurpleFooz (Haunted Halls is his baby). You can also expect a longer post about design intentions for Haunted Halls from him.

5 hours is an extreme quoted from our first pass of internal testers. This weekend will give us a more realistic answer.

Primarily, there are just a lot of optional encounters. The dungeon is all indoors and will probably get you lost on the first run. Secret Doors and Traps will be a big deal. The kobolds with the poisoned, mounted gatling crossbow are a bit ridiculous. Enjoy!

I personally am glad for these complex and complicated quests. It is dnd based afterall...

[Hunta-EU]

I rem from PnP days 5 hours is about right. Although there was usually pizza involved somewhere mid quest.

How do you plan to implement that?

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

Video


No no no...this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MteSlpxCpo

[lyrecono]

It's is insanely stupid that poison or doors would be ANY kind of an obstacle for a level 28 character.

Don't get my started on the CR60 wolves.
the reason why our technological advanced races and items were nerfed is to accommodate their badly written lv 5-8 drow stuff from U14. Not only are those quest not epic by any means, their nerfs made the game worse.
Not that it made an impact in game play, we just chugged more pots. it made it more annoying then fun.
Now we were force fed a new system for secret doors to accommodate this lv 1-5 module at 28? no thank you.
please create real epic content, without the hp/saves inflation this time


Not interested in any quests that feature bloated CR/HP vermin, common animals and commoners after all those Devil, Demon and Quori invasions in Eberron, the defeat of a godess in Forgotten Realms and slaying of Dragons in both Realms? I wonder why?

because he, like many others are tired of the failed attempts to get low lv modules up as high lv content?

[Silverleafeon]

Yes, consolidating the buffs to one interactive object is part of the plan.

I'm starting to get in game tells of players asking me to ask the devs,
"tell them to make ship buffs last until you die or log out. thanks! lol'"

Thanks for considering this option.

[samthedagger]

I honestly mean it when I say this: good luck. I've done my work on Lamannia and I've written more than my fair share of bug reports. I am done. I just want to sit back and play the game. If you (devs) ever fix the in-game bug report I might go back to doing the occasional bug report when I notice something amiss, but until that day, I am just going to play. I think this is a good direction for Lamannia to go. And I hope lots of players participate. I hope you get lots of quality feedback. But I am pending cancellation of my DDO account at the moment because I was so upset with Shadowfell Conspiracy even after I reported countless bugs from the alpha and beta test that were never addressed or even included in the known issues list. I participated in dev chats. I even played with devs and gave feedback directly as we went along. I was sorely disappointed with the results. I want the best for this game. I really do. I've never loved an MMO better than this game. But I am having a hard time finding reasons to play anymore because its one mess after another. It's not just the bugs. It's so much more. I won't go into details because I've already done so elsewhere and it would be beating a dead horse. But I am honestly afraid that this is simply an attempt to stave off player worry while going about business as usual in order to milk this game for as long as possible.

I'll end on this. If you want to make me happy, giving us a good endgame raid with loot that takes a long time to work for, craft, and grants a real sense of accomplishment when its done would be a start. Do that, and I might, just might, renew my sub. But that ship is slowly sailing. U21 had better be something very, very special. If it isn't, I just might be done with this game for good. I'd happily continue to pay several thousand more dollars over the next few years if you make it fun enough. If not, it's been a good time.

Edit: I'll also chip in my 2 cents on the potential 5 hour quest Haunted Halls. I hate the idea of such a long quest without breaks in between. Make it a chain somehow and I'll probably love it. Make the Haunted Halls a public area with quest entrances inside and portions of the dungeon within (think Catacombs or possibly Tangleroot in terms of structure). That would be my vote.

[maddmatt70]

This was taken from the closed thread not on Lammania regarding the closure of the Mournlands and the subsequent creation of the Player's Council and the increase in role of Lamania from just a preview server to also being a testing server.

Originally Posted by maddmatt70
I am all for it if this saves Turbine some money at no decrease in the game's quality. I would guess mournland's probably cost Turbine money just like the old forums did and that this is all about cutting costs. If there is no decrease in the quality and the bugs are caught at the rate they currently are or better even I am fine with a change.

Response by Major Mal below
It wasn't a money thing at all. It was all about focusing our effort. I would rather Kookie and Squeak only have to deal with one fanbase instead of a fractured one. The idea of Mournlands in the early days, and even though the expansions was fine. not how i would have set it up, but I was ok with it. To be honest, this is how I always wanted it. One test server to rule them all...oh wait, wrong universe.

Sorry I double posted this, but I wanted to make sure the community at large saw it, not just the people that haunt the Lamma section.

My rresponse to Major Mal.
I think in light of the recent layoffs by Warner Brothers I am going to disagree with you Major Mal and say that this new structure for player feedback and testing was 100% about cutting costs. I would imagine that there are several other measures which have been and will be taken to cut costs in the future and hopefully the correct decisions will be made with those decisions as to what to cut.

[Shorlong]

This was taken from the closed thread not on Lammania regarding the closure of the Mournlands and the subsequent creation of the Player's Council and the increase in role of Lamania from just a preview server to also being a testing server.

Originally Posted by maddmatt70
I am all for it if this saves Turbine some money at no decrease in the game's quality. I would guess mournland's probably cost Turbine money just like the old forums did and that this is all about cutting costs. If there is no decrease in the quality and the bugs are caught at the rate they currently are or better even I am fine with a change.

Response by Major Mal below
It wasn't a money thing at all. It was all about focusing our effort. I would rather Kookie and Squeak only have to deal with one fanbase instead of a fractured one. The idea of Mournlands in the early days, and even though the expansions was fine. not how i would have set it up, but I was ok with it. To be honest, this is how I always wanted it. One test server to rule them all...oh wait, wrong universe.

Sorry I double posted this, but I wanted to make sure the community at large saw it, not just the people that haunt the Lamma section.

My rresponse to Major Mal.
I think in light of the recent layoffs by Warner Brothers I am going to disagree with you Major Mal and say that this new structure for player feedback and testing was 100% about cutting costs. I would imagine that there are several other measures which have been and will be taken to cut costs in the future and hopefully the correct decisions will be made with those decisions as to what to cut.

Uhmmm...I don't think you get to disagree with them over something that you do not know facts on. They know the facts. This was something decided on over a month ago, and the layoffs came down last week according to rumors. I also don't see how this would be a cost cutting thing at all.

[Postumus]

Yes, consolidating the buffs to one interactive object is part of the plan.


I was happy to hear you say this on DDOCast and doubly happy to see you post it! Very cool.

I hope your team will be able to implement some of the other ideas regarding guild ships you hinted at during that podcast as well!

[enochiancub]

Be have you an answer and your response was to tell him he was wrong? Wow