Pure Wizard or Fighter splash for EK?

[Danemoth]

I'm currently working on my third life on my main character, and I've chosen to do Eldritch Knight for my Wizard life. I have a great love for any sort of Battlemage type character in RPGs and so far I like it, but I'm constantly wondering if I would get better performance if I changed my build. So far, my build has looked like this (loose approximation since I never actually built this with any sort of app). I started with two levels of fighter, but now I'm curious if I would be better off going pure Wizard just for better caster performance. Right now these were my feat choices:

Level 1: Power Attack
Fighter Bonus 1: Cleave
Fighter Bonus 2: Stunning Blow
Level 3: Improved Shield Bash
Wizard Bonus 1: Maximize
Level 6: Two-Handed Fighting
Wizard Bonus 2: Extend

I was planning on grabbing Great Cleave at some point and finishing off the Two-Handed Fighting line (I'm a dwarf, so I'm only using Dwarven Axes), and of course, Improved Critical: Slashing when I qualify for it.
That was the plan anyways. But now I'm wondering if I had been better off staying Pure Wizard to benefit from getting better performance using spells (I keep finding myself Acid Blasting things point blank for more AoE damage and tossing Frost Lances when at range). All my points thus far have been in the EK tree (except for one I dumped in Archmage for the Evocation SLA. Those magic missiles are wonderful!)

If anyone has any opinions, I'd really love to hear them. It might save me the trouble of using a Lesser Reincarnation to get rid of the fighter levels... or it may convince me to go ahead with it. X3

[Todkaninchen]

I'm currently working on my third life on my main character, and I've chosen to do Eldritch Knight for my Wizard life. I have a great love for any sort of Battlemage type character in RPGs and so far I like it, but I'm constantly wondering if I would get better performance if I changed my build. So far, my build has looked like this (loose approximation since I never actually built this with any sort of app). I started with two levels of fighter, but now I'm curious if I would be better off going pure Wizard just for better caster performance. Right now these were my feat choices:

Level 1: Power Attack
Fighter Bonus 1: Cleave
Fighter Bonus 2: Stunning Blow
Level 3: Improved Shield Bash
Wizard Bonus 1: Maximize
Level 6: Two-Handed Fighting
Wizard Bonus 2: Extend

I was planning on grabbing Great Cleave at some point and finishing off the Two-Handed Fighting line (I'm a dwarf, so I'm only using Dwarven Axes), and of course, Improved Critical: Slashing when I qualify for it.
That was the plan anyways. But now I'm wondering if I had been better off staying Pure Wizard to benefit from getting better performance using spells (I keep finding myself Acid Blasting things point blank for more AoE damage and tossing Frost Lances when at range). All my points thus far have been in the EK tree (except for one I dumped in Archmage for the Evocation SLA. Those magic missiles are wonderful!)

If anyone has any opinions, I'd really love to hear them. It might save me the trouble of using a Lesser Reincarnation to get rid of the fighter levels... or it may convince me to go ahead with it. X3

I'm just starting a pure one, so hoping someone replies to you too.

Mine's halfling--a conceit--and I'm planning on doing an EK/conjuration Archmage to use cheap, heightened web and clouds as crowd control/debuffing while I fight...

(Was either that or enchantment, but this way I don't have to deal with spell penetration...)

[Todkaninchen]

So far, so-so to decent DPS at level 5, but don't have to be too rocking when most enemies are squirming in a 3-SP spammed, heightened web.

I went pure wizard, STR 14/CON 14/INT 17 and I don't remember the rest. Have power attack, cleave, conjuration focus, heighten so far and taking both EK stuff and archmage (conjuration archmage, mostly for the SLA's) and doing okay so far.

I think going pure will work if you're not trying to maximize DPS and--instead--using casting to debilitate/control/do some AOE at the same time.

Popping glitterdust and web in areas you know for sure they'll spawn or have to pass seems to work really well too.

Good luck!

[bsquishwizzy]

I've got a pure EK at lvl 12. First-lifer.

Melee damage is so-so. I’ve got Vampire Form from PM, and a couple of AM niceties to help, but mostly EK. With Cleave, Great Cleave, and the EK SLA I’m able to do melee damage that isn’t utterly laughable.

I’m better off with self-buffing, dropping Web and Wall of Fire, then going in the melee. I’m thinking that maybe I can take Wraith form and still max my EK line so as to get good melee defensive benefits, fair melee DPS and still fall back to casting when I need to.

My biggest problem is mostly who I run the toon. I’m not a caster. I’m not heavy melee. I have to pick and choose my fights, and do so carefully.

[bsquishwizzy]

Also – I’m not 100% sure what a fighter splash would bring to the table. You biggest benefit is maybe the ability to use a tower shield, and that is near useless for a caster. The ASF makes it prohibitive. Another would be heavy armor, which is also loaded with heaping mounds of ASF.

Fitting the right gear on to something like that almost makes having a fighter splash pointless. You’d need some pretty special stuff to get to the point where you are not losing 15% - 20% of your casts due to the ASF. Maybe go Elf? I dunno.

[Nayus]

You can read the posts above and realize a pure EK Wizzie has absolutely laughable melee DPS, most the time you'll be far better off just staying behind and casting spells, EK is a defensive line, it doesn't offer DPS.
That's what melee splashes offer. A reason to go to the front lines.

And I would advise you to completely forget about the EK enhancement line, take the first Spellsword toggle and leave it behind, why? Because it doesn't offer anything else, you can't stack Spellsword toggles. Actually there is a reason to go deeper EK and it's called Armor Class and as such it will require some investment, plat, time and Barkskin (+3) pots.
But either way you shouldn't need AC when you have Death Aura and displacement, it won't help you when you need it the most and that's because you won't be dying to trash mobs, you'll be dying to casters. If you're in a situation where your AC is saving your skin then you're either completely ran out of SP or you should drop a firewall and keep jumping until things are dead, remember to switch to a spellcasting weapon first.


Any pre-U20 8-str wizard will be able to melee things down if you mass hold monster, always have this in mind. Going warmage to make something inevitable only become faster, isn't a good idea.

[Lanhelin]

OP, if you have access to the Druid class, you might want to give the following a thought:

I'm currently testing a Druid 12 / Wizard 6 / Rogue 2 build. First I thought about going D10/F8/R2, but except for the bunch of bonus feats it didn't attract me much. There are a few synergies between Druid and Wizard, eg. Spell Power from the Seasons will apply to arcane spells too. Natures Warden (Season's Herald T3) does bane damage to undead and aberrations which is affected by Spell Power and also distributed by offensive arcane spells which makes them a bit more useful even if they do 1 dmg only. I plan to use the EK tree mainly to support the melee fighting in Animal Form, like the Armor and Shield SLA's and so far it's fun and works great (Level 9 atm). The good thing regarding Eldritch Strike is, that its damage (like the spellsword damage) increases with Character Level instead of Caster Level and both are affected by Force/Elemental Spell Power.

There are plenty of attack skills: Cleave, Great Cleave, Innate Attacks, Eldritch Strike, Alpha Strike

The only thing that sucks is, that thanks to the current bug that the TWF feats are valid for Animal Form attacks, I also get all the penalties when I equip two Weapons, which I'd like to because of their caster properties. Because of this I mainly use an Impulse Thaumaturgy Quarterstaff or Wraps.


So for a Wizard PL the splash could be something like Druid 9 (8) / Wizard 11 (12). The 9/11 Wiz would get access to T6 arcane spells (Greater Heroism) and T5 Druid spells (Reincarnate, Death Ward) for the sacrifice of L12 Wiz Core enhancements.

[zeonardo]

I have been looking through all the threads about this PrE that I have found so far and it's intriguing how nobody ever mention Dwarves with "Throw Your Weight Around" line.

I mean, it would technically be a pure and min/max build.
Max int + all levels
Max con for damage and HP
Rest in STR (36 pts build in my case as a 21st life)

I would focus on enchant to try to hold/dance things for better beatting, or neg-level and insta.
I have 3x all the relevant caster past lives, so I think it would help DC and SpellPenn-wise.
I don't think that to-hit would be an issue and wraith would add miss-chance and self heal.

I just need to gather the courage to try this out. If I don't like it, I would be stuck in a subotptimal race for wiz, as I think helf is far better (Elven Arcanum and no CON penalty)

Am I that far off the reality?

[Saekee]

I'm currently working on my third life on my main character, and I've chosen to do Eldritch Knight for my Wizard life. I have a great love for any sort of Battlemage type character in RPGs and so far I like it, but I'm constantly wondering if I would get better performance if I changed my build. So far, my build has looked like this (loose approximation since I never actually built this with any sort of app). I started with two levels of fighter, but now I'm curious if I would be better off going pure Wizard just for better caster performance. Right now these were my feat choices:

Level 1: Power Attack
Fighter Bonus 1: Cleave
Fighter Bonus 2: Stunning Blow
Level 3: Improved Shield Bash
Wizard Bonus 1: Maximize
Level 6: Two-Handed Fighting
Wizard Bonus 2: Extend

I was planning on grabbing Great Cleave at some point and finishing off the Two-Handed Fighting line (I'm a dwarf, so I'm only using Dwarven Axes), and of course, Improved Critical: Slashing when I qualify for it.
That was the plan anyways. But now I'm wondering if I had been better off staying Pure Wizard to benefit from getting better performance using spells (I keep finding myself Acid Blasting things point blank for more AoE damage and tossing Frost Lances when at range). All my points thus far have been in the EK tree (except for one I dumped in Archmage for the Evocation SLA. Those magic missiles are wonderful!)

If anyone has any opinions, I'd really love to hear them. It might save me the trouble of using a Lesser Reincarnation to get rid of the fighter levels... or it may convince me to go ahead with it. X3

How about Souleater (http://ddowiki.com/page/Souleater) to boost your mid-leveling dps? Souleater (http://ddowiki.com/page/Souleater) will heal you in an undead form and also has an insta-kill proc. People sometimes dump them on the AH. Consider pale master wraith form (incorporeality), add archmage line for really cheap blur/displacement, splash a little EK and then go fighter for the rest for the feats (or monk or something else). Souleater may make things easier at the 8-14ish level ranges until you get something better (or until the TWF line is fully developed, especially if you already have cleave and great cleave). This is just an idea though; I haven't tested it.

[Failedlegend]

I have been looking through all the threads about this PrE that I have found so far and it's intriguing how nobody ever mention Dwarves with "Throw Your Weight Around" line.


I did (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433369-Pointy-Eared-Wizard-w-Pointy-Sticks-%28Wiz18-20-X0-2-TWF-Primary-Spellcaster%29?p=5217379&viewfull=1#post5217379) Although I really need to make a new thread about it because the thread title outright says elf wizard with pointy sticks whereas this is a dwarf with a blunt weapon lol (mind u the blunt weapon is just personal pref...great axe is more optimal)


Dwarven Wiz18/Rogue2

Str 13
Dex 8
Con 19
Int 18 (Lvl ups here)
Wis 8
Cha 6

Rogue@ 1 & 9

Skills: Search, DD, Concen,UMD, Spot, OL

Feats:

1 Insightful Reflexes
2W Extend
3 Power Attack
6 Cleave
6W Maximize
9 Great Cleave
12 Dragonmark
12W Heighten
15 PL:Wiz
17W Empower
18 IC: Bludgeon
ED Shadowdancer
21 SF: Enchant
24 GSF: Enchant
26 ???
27 Epic Reflexes
28 Elusive Target

[zeonardo]

I did (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433369-Pointy-Eared-Wizard-w-Pointy-Sticks-%28Wiz18-20-X0-2-TWF-Primary-Spellcaster%29?p=5217379&viewfull=1#post5217379) Although I really need to make a new thread about it because the thread title outright says elf wizard with pointy sticks whereas this is a dwarf with a blunt weapon lol (mind u the blunt weapon is just personal pref...great axe is more optimal)


Dwarven Wiz18/Rogue2

Str 13
Dex 8
Con 19
Int 18 (Lvl ups here)
Wis 8
Cha 6

Rogue@ 1 & 9

Skills: Search, DD, Concen,UMD, Spot, OL

Feats:

1 Insightful Reflexes
2W Extend
3 Power Attack
6 Cleave
6W Maximize
9 Great Cleave
12 Dragonmark
12W Heighten
15 PL:Wiz
17W Empower
18 IC: Bludgeon
ED Shadowdancer
21 SF: Enchant
24 GSF: Enchant
26 ???
27 Epic Reflexes
28 Elusive Target

Great!
I thought I was REALLY missing something prohibitive on this combo, since I've been away from the game for a long time.
And I have just found out that the martial proficiency enhancement indeed enables dwarven axes. One less reason to splash fighter.

[Todkaninchen]

You can read the posts above and realize a pure EK Wizzie has absolutely laughable melee DPS, most the time you'll be far better off just staying behind and casting spells, EK is a defensive line, it doesn't offer DPS.
That's what melee splashes offer. A reason to go to the front lines.

And I would advise you to completely forget about the EK enhancement line, take the first Spellsword toggle and leave it behind, why? Because it doesn't offer anything else, you can't stack Spellsword toggles. Actually there is a reason to go deeper EK and it's called Armor Class and as such it will require some investment, plat, time and Barkskin (+3) pots.
But either way you shouldn't need AC when you have Death Aura and displacement, it won't help you when you need it the most and that's because you won't be dying to trash mobs, you'll be dying to casters. If you're in a situation where your AC is saving your skin then you're either completely ran out of SP or you should drop a firewall and keep jumping until things are dead, remember to switch to a spellcasting weapon first.


Any pre-U20 8-str wizard will be able to melee things down if you mass hold monster, always have this in mind. Going warmage to make something inevitable only become faster, isn't a good idea.

Yeah, I don't know.

With the right SLA's from Archmage or cloud/area AOE's, an EK looks like it'll do enough combo damage to draw enemies into the spells and finish them off while also acting as a debuffer to them. So, not increasing the DPS with regards to enemies as much as decreasing the enemies' ability to resist damage or even fight.

Which isn't something most melees get until epic Destinies (Lay Waste, Drifting lotus, etc.).

Some of the divines with a strong melee and DC component can with some of the AOE spells with knockdown/stun effects, but the EK line seems to let you do both melee and a bit of AOE/debuff over time, often for relatively cheap and pack in more survivability perks.

You're right though, an EK isn't a barbarian, but a barbarian also can't easily render most of the enemies around him blind and writhing in synchronized motions in web for a short period of time while still having the ability to use "utility spells" or special purpose (arcane) buffs.

[Failedlegend]

Yeah, I don't know.

With the right SLA's from Archmage or cloud/area AOE's, an WIZARD or SORC looks like it'll do enough combo damage to draw enemies into the spells and finish them off while also acting as a debuffer to them. So, not increasing the DPS with regards to enemies as much as decreasing the enemies' ability to resist damage or even fight.

I fixed that for u

[Todkaninchen]

I fixed that for u

Good point.

Although--in my defense--it is the Wizard forum. *grin*

I've not played sorc much, do the SLA's they get also get "free" metamagic boosts?

I know the wizard ones from the archmage cores stay the same SP cost, but I can't remember if the damage dealing ones from the sorc are like the arti SLA's (no SP boost for metas) or are restricted like the arcane bolt/blast on archmage?

[Lanhelin]

Take Druid. Do not splash Fighter. Fighter is boring. Druid is fun.

[Failedlegend]

Good point.

Although--in my defense--it is the Wizard forum. *grin*

I've not played sorc much, do the SLA's they get also get "free" metamagic boosts?

I know the wizard ones from the archmage cores stay the same SP cost, but I can't remember if the damage dealing ones from the sorc are like the arti SLA's (no SP boost for metas) or are restricted like the arcane bolt/blast on archmage?

I replaced EK w/ Wizard and Sorc to demonstrate mi point that EK has little to nothing to with how these builds succeed if anything itd detrimental I wasn't saying u missed Sorc :)


Take Druid. Do not splash Fighter. Fighter is boring. Druid is fun.

Huh?