CThruTheEgo
01-14-2014, 07:33 AM
Attention devs: shadow charges from shadowdancer do not add together as described. Please fix. I will bug report it but also wanted to start a thread to bring attention to the issue. A response to this thread would be appreciated so we know that this problem has been acknowledged.
TL;DR VERSION: Shadow charges are totally borked. If you only have shrouding strike (no matter how many ranks) without any abilities that use shadow charges, then you can only get a maximum of 1 charge. This only matters when you take untouchable and expect to get up to +7 dodge but will never have more than +1. Shrouding strike coupled with an ability that uses shadow charges (i.e. cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, consume, or shadow form) will give you 2 charges per rank. Cloak of shadows and shadow form will both add +1 max charges but are mutually exclusive with each other, meaning only one will apply. I suspect that this is also true of shadow manipulation and consume, but since cloak of shadows is a prerequisite for them, this is impossible to test since it will always take precedence. The maximum number of charges you can obtain is 7 and the only way to obtain this maximum is through 3 ranks of shrouding strike and either cloak of shadows or shadow form. The detailed testing to determine this is described below.
I did some testing to find out exactly which abilities were offering how many shadow charges. I started by figuring out how many shadow charges you should be able to get based on the in-game descriptions. You should be able to get a maximum of 10 shadow charges from the following abilities, per the in-game descriptions:
shrouding strike rank 1 - 2 charges
shrouding strike rank 2 - 2 charges
shrouding strike rank 3 - 2 charges
shadow form - 1 charge
cloak of shadows - 1 charge
shadow manipulation - 1 charge
consume - 1 charge
THE TESTS: I reset my enhancements and spent just enough to get shrouding strike rank 1 and untouchable. Untouchable applies your shadow charges to your dodge percentage so I could assassinate something and then check my dodge to see how much was added until I was no longer receiving any dodge bonus for assassinating something. This would tell me the max shadow charges I could obtain from shrouding strike rank 1.
I then went into the Vale and killed the few critters closest to Meridia checking my dodge bonus after each kill. I both assassinated and manually marked the targets to see if there was any difference. I started with a base dodge of 14% (6% improved uncanny dodge + 8% adamantine cloak of the wolf) and was only able to get up to a 15% after making sure that it was not the dodge bonus received from the nimbleness assassin enhancement (I just let those wear off and then rechecked). This means that shrouding strike rank 1 was only giving me 1 max charge.
After finding this number I then went back to the epic trainer, reset my enhancements again, and got cloak of shadows. This ability actually shows the number of shadow charges so I didn't have to keep checking my dodge bonus. I realized Searing Heights was a lot closer than Meridia, so I went there and tested again to see the number of shadow charges that shrouding strike rank 1 and cloak of shadows would give me. I continued this process of purchasing only a single enhancement that affects the maximum number of shadow charges and then testing it against the in-game description. Here are the conditions and results of these tests:
shrouding strike rank 1 - 2 expected, 1 max charge obtained
shrouding strike rank 1 and cloak of shadows - 3 expected, 3 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 2 and cloak of shadows - 5 expected, 5 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 3 and cloak of shadows - 7 expected, 7 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 3, cloak of shadows, and shadow manipulation - 8 expected, 7 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 3, cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, and consume - 9 expected, 7 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 3, cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, consume, and shadow form - 10 expected, 7 max charges obtained
In this test I took untouchable at the same time I took shadow manipulation. Untouchable allows a maximum of 7 shadow charges to apply to your dodge bonus, so I suspected that it might also be capping the maximum number of shadow charges you can get. So I did another test to determine if this was the case.
For this round of testing I went into epic Stormhorns to ensure that the mobs were around my level in case this had something to do with it. Both assassinating and marking resulted in gaining shadow charges.
In this first set of tests I wanted to confirm and expand on my initial test above and see how many charges could be obtained from each rank of shrouding strike alone by using the dodge bonus granted by untouchable to verify the number of charges. Here are the conditions and results of this test:
shrouding strike rank 1 and untouchable - 2 expected, 1 max charge obtained
shrouding strike rank 2 and untouchable - 4 expected, 1 max charge obtained
shrouding strike rank 3 and untouchable - 6 expected, 1 max charge obtained
Two things to note about this test. First, after I got the one charge I was unable to get rid of it. I tried waiting the two minutes at a tavern, completely shutting down and restarting the game, and completing a quest. This charge only went away when I reset my ED to start the next round of testing described below. So for the second and third conditions in this test, I already had the +1 dodge obtained from the first condition.
The second thing worth noting is that during this round of testing I noticed I still had shadow form on my hotbar from my reset. Even though the ability was greyed out, it still showed the number of charges I had. Like my dodge, it never rose above 1 and also stayed until I reset my ED. This provides an easier alternative than checking your dodge to verify how many charges you have without acquiring one of the abilities that uses shadow charges. I did another test using this verification method where I took shrouding strike without untouchable. Here are the conditions and results of this test:
shrouding strike rank 1 without untouchable - 2 expected, 1 max charge obtained
shrouding strike rank 2 without untouchable - 4 expected, 1 max charge obtained
shrouding strike rank 3 without untouchable - 6 expected, 1 max charge obtained
So when you take shrouding strike without one of the abilities that uses shadow charges (i.e. cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, consume, or shadow form), you do not get more than 1 shadow charge. This only matters when you also take untouchable and will never gain more than +1 dodge.
For the next set of tests I wanted to avoid taking untouchable to see if it was capping the number of charges I was able to obtain when taking abilities that used shadow charges. Here are the conditions and results of that test:
shrouding strike rank 1 and cloak of shadows - 3 expected, 3 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 1, cloak of shadows, and shadow manipulation - 4 expected, 3 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 1, cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, and consume - 5 expected, 3 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 2, cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, and consume - 7 expected, 5 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 3, cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, and consume - 9 expected, 7 max charges obtained
In this test I have shown that cloak of shadows adds 1 to your max charges. During the two months between this testing session and the original one mentioned above, I reset my enhancements at one point so that I had 2 ranks of shrouding strike and shadow form, allowing a maximum of 5 shadow charges and this is exactly what I would consistently cap out at. So it has been shown that both cloak of shadows and shadow form will each add 1 to your max charges. I wanted to find out if they would both add simultaneously or if they were mutually exclusive. Here are the conditions and results of that test:
shrouding strike rank 1, cloak of shadows, and shadow form - 4 expected, 3 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 2, cloak of shadows, and shadow form - 6 expected, 5 max charges obtained
So both cloak of shadows and shadow form will apply +1 max charges but are mutually exclusive so only one will apply at a time. I suspect that this is also true for shadow manipulation and consume but it is impossible to test this since cloak of shadows is a prerequisite for them and will always take precedence if this conclusion is correct. This also means the max number of charges you can obtain is 7 and the only way to reach that maximum is with 3 ranks of shrouding strike and either cloak of shadows or shadow form.
The last thing I want to say is that this kind of testing should not be the responsibility of the players. All abilities and game mechanics should be play-tested by the dev team before it even makes it onto Lamannia (/cough - tempest capstone - /cough). If it is discovered that it is not working appropriately, then it shouldn't make it into the game until it does work as intended. And if the Turbine team is willing to reimburse me the roughly 400k plat it cost to do all the ED resets and perhaps some compensation for the several hours it took (some free TP or astral shards would be awesome ;)), I'd be very grateful, but I'm not holding my breath. Thanks for reading and thanks in advance to the Turbine team for acknowledging and fixing this.
TL;DR VERSION: Shadow charges are totally borked. If you only have shrouding strike (no matter how many ranks) without any abilities that use shadow charges, then you can only get a maximum of 1 charge. This only matters when you take untouchable and expect to get up to +7 dodge but will never have more than +1. Shrouding strike coupled with an ability that uses shadow charges (i.e. cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, consume, or shadow form) will give you 2 charges per rank. Cloak of shadows and shadow form will both add +1 max charges but are mutually exclusive with each other, meaning only one will apply. I suspect that this is also true of shadow manipulation and consume, but since cloak of shadows is a prerequisite for them, this is impossible to test since it will always take precedence. The maximum number of charges you can obtain is 7 and the only way to obtain this maximum is through 3 ranks of shrouding strike and either cloak of shadows or shadow form. The detailed testing to determine this is described below.
I did some testing to find out exactly which abilities were offering how many shadow charges. I started by figuring out how many shadow charges you should be able to get based on the in-game descriptions. You should be able to get a maximum of 10 shadow charges from the following abilities, per the in-game descriptions:
shrouding strike rank 1 - 2 charges
shrouding strike rank 2 - 2 charges
shrouding strike rank 3 - 2 charges
shadow form - 1 charge
cloak of shadows - 1 charge
shadow manipulation - 1 charge
consume - 1 charge
THE TESTS: I reset my enhancements and spent just enough to get shrouding strike rank 1 and untouchable. Untouchable applies your shadow charges to your dodge percentage so I could assassinate something and then check my dodge to see how much was added until I was no longer receiving any dodge bonus for assassinating something. This would tell me the max shadow charges I could obtain from shrouding strike rank 1.
I then went into the Vale and killed the few critters closest to Meridia checking my dodge bonus after each kill. I both assassinated and manually marked the targets to see if there was any difference. I started with a base dodge of 14% (6% improved uncanny dodge + 8% adamantine cloak of the wolf) and was only able to get up to a 15% after making sure that it was not the dodge bonus received from the nimbleness assassin enhancement (I just let those wear off and then rechecked). This means that shrouding strike rank 1 was only giving me 1 max charge.
After finding this number I then went back to the epic trainer, reset my enhancements again, and got cloak of shadows. This ability actually shows the number of shadow charges so I didn't have to keep checking my dodge bonus. I realized Searing Heights was a lot closer than Meridia, so I went there and tested again to see the number of shadow charges that shrouding strike rank 1 and cloak of shadows would give me. I continued this process of purchasing only a single enhancement that affects the maximum number of shadow charges and then testing it against the in-game description. Here are the conditions and results of these tests:
shrouding strike rank 1 - 2 expected, 1 max charge obtained
shrouding strike rank 1 and cloak of shadows - 3 expected, 3 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 2 and cloak of shadows - 5 expected, 5 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 3 and cloak of shadows - 7 expected, 7 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 3, cloak of shadows, and shadow manipulation - 8 expected, 7 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 3, cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, and consume - 9 expected, 7 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 3, cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, consume, and shadow form - 10 expected, 7 max charges obtained
In this test I took untouchable at the same time I took shadow manipulation. Untouchable allows a maximum of 7 shadow charges to apply to your dodge bonus, so I suspected that it might also be capping the maximum number of shadow charges you can get. So I did another test to determine if this was the case.
For this round of testing I went into epic Stormhorns to ensure that the mobs were around my level in case this had something to do with it. Both assassinating and marking resulted in gaining shadow charges.
In this first set of tests I wanted to confirm and expand on my initial test above and see how many charges could be obtained from each rank of shrouding strike alone by using the dodge bonus granted by untouchable to verify the number of charges. Here are the conditions and results of this test:
shrouding strike rank 1 and untouchable - 2 expected, 1 max charge obtained
shrouding strike rank 2 and untouchable - 4 expected, 1 max charge obtained
shrouding strike rank 3 and untouchable - 6 expected, 1 max charge obtained
Two things to note about this test. First, after I got the one charge I was unable to get rid of it. I tried waiting the two minutes at a tavern, completely shutting down and restarting the game, and completing a quest. This charge only went away when I reset my ED to start the next round of testing described below. So for the second and third conditions in this test, I already had the +1 dodge obtained from the first condition.
The second thing worth noting is that during this round of testing I noticed I still had shadow form on my hotbar from my reset. Even though the ability was greyed out, it still showed the number of charges I had. Like my dodge, it never rose above 1 and also stayed until I reset my ED. This provides an easier alternative than checking your dodge to verify how many charges you have without acquiring one of the abilities that uses shadow charges. I did another test using this verification method where I took shrouding strike without untouchable. Here are the conditions and results of this test:
shrouding strike rank 1 without untouchable - 2 expected, 1 max charge obtained
shrouding strike rank 2 without untouchable - 4 expected, 1 max charge obtained
shrouding strike rank 3 without untouchable - 6 expected, 1 max charge obtained
So when you take shrouding strike without one of the abilities that uses shadow charges (i.e. cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, consume, or shadow form), you do not get more than 1 shadow charge. This only matters when you also take untouchable and will never gain more than +1 dodge.
For the next set of tests I wanted to avoid taking untouchable to see if it was capping the number of charges I was able to obtain when taking abilities that used shadow charges. Here are the conditions and results of that test:
shrouding strike rank 1 and cloak of shadows - 3 expected, 3 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 1, cloak of shadows, and shadow manipulation - 4 expected, 3 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 1, cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, and consume - 5 expected, 3 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 2, cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, and consume - 7 expected, 5 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 3, cloak of shadows, shadow manipulation, and consume - 9 expected, 7 max charges obtained
In this test I have shown that cloak of shadows adds 1 to your max charges. During the two months between this testing session and the original one mentioned above, I reset my enhancements at one point so that I had 2 ranks of shrouding strike and shadow form, allowing a maximum of 5 shadow charges and this is exactly what I would consistently cap out at. So it has been shown that both cloak of shadows and shadow form will each add 1 to your max charges. I wanted to find out if they would both add simultaneously or if they were mutually exclusive. Here are the conditions and results of that test:
shrouding strike rank 1, cloak of shadows, and shadow form - 4 expected, 3 max charges obtained
shrouding strike rank 2, cloak of shadows, and shadow form - 6 expected, 5 max charges obtained
So both cloak of shadows and shadow form will apply +1 max charges but are mutually exclusive so only one will apply at a time. I suspect that this is also true for shadow manipulation and consume but it is impossible to test this since cloak of shadows is a prerequisite for them and will always take precedence if this conclusion is correct. This also means the max number of charges you can obtain is 7 and the only way to reach that maximum is with 3 ranks of shrouding strike and either cloak of shadows or shadow form.
The last thing I want to say is that this kind of testing should not be the responsibility of the players. All abilities and game mechanics should be play-tested by the dev team before it even makes it onto Lamannia (/cough - tempest capstone - /cough). If it is discovered that it is not working appropriately, then it shouldn't make it into the game until it does work as intended. And if the Turbine team is willing to reimburse me the roughly 400k plat it cost to do all the ED resets and perhaps some compensation for the several hours it took (some free TP or astral shards would be awesome ;)), I'd be very grateful, but I'm not holding my breath. Thanks for reading and thanks in advance to the Turbine team for acknowledging and fixing this.