DPS Paladin

[camshaft355]

I have a build that I got from a friend and so I used this build and I was hitting 100s-120s as a paladin. Critting around 500-600. It is 15paly/3monk/2fighter its a very good build and I prefer it to people who want to dps.
Can solo most EE in dread ED with Blitz

[Teh_Troll]

There is no such thing as a DPS pally.

[Vellrad]

There is no such thing as a DPS pally.

Nonsense.
Just splash 12 fighter and 6 monk.

[Glad]

DDO Paladin died before 2 years, i hope you know good necromancer

[Wrathharvest]

There is no such thing as a DPS pally.

Oh, Paladins aren't *that* bad.

A character that's primarily Paladin can do perfectly acceptable dps. Not the best dps or anything, but they wouldn't be a liability. The problem is that many of the better Paladin abilities are accessible at low level. So if you're min/maxing you're going to find that splashing 2 or 4 levels of Paladin while primarily going another class will give better results than primarily going Paladin and then splashing other classes.

In part it depends on what you mean by "dps". Burst? Sustained? Over what time period? In a nutshell, Paladins can do very good burst dps with Empowered Smite, especially against Evil targets and whichever of Undead or Evil Outsiders you're focusing on. But for sustained blow after blow against, say, a neutral enemy, the Paladin is going to lag behind a good Fighter/Monk build.

Edit - Also, being survivable and self-sustaining has a lot of value in DDO, and Paladins are generally pretty good at that. I haven't done the math, but I suspect a well-built pure Barb could be pretty formidable in terms of pure dps. But... Ugh. You'd really have to like potions.

[Teh_Troll]

Oh, Paladins aren't *that* bad.



Yes they are. If you can say that then you don't know what "good" is.

I'm not saying this to troll (okay, maybe a little) I'm saying this because the class needs love.

A class needs to add value, more than being a 2-splash.

[bennyson]

I agree with troll.

DDO's Paladin was given two pathetic class trees (okay maybe a little pathetic, but still pathetic) plus their Divine Might was badly changed and was typed to be unstackable with insightful STR items. The only reason why people use Paladin anymore is for the saves, nothing more.

Paladin needs love, am talking real love, as in class trees that give total badass abilities in a way that gives you a reason not to splash Paladin with something else.

If Turbine just listened to their fans regarding the Paladin class trees, they wouldn't have so many angry costumers complaining about what they have done.

[Wrathharvest]

Yes they are. If you can say that then you don't know what "good" is.

I'm not saying this to troll (okay, maybe a little) I'm saying this because the class needs love.

A class needs to add value, more than being a 2-splash.

Pff. Of course you're trolling, but that's fine.

I'm procrasting on a project anyway, so lets break this down a bit: What exactly does a Paladin bring to the table compared with other folks? Lets assume ~12 levels in the class and that everyone's going to Furyshotting and whatnot.

The Paladin would have Slayer of Evil II (spec'ed for whatever the expected foe would be) and Improved Courage of Heaven, giving 2d6 vs evil foes and 4d6 vs undead/outsiders. Then you pick up your extra Smites and Exalted Smite, so you've got 6 shots of +2 Crit Range and Multiplier. Div Might and Div Sac you'd certainly have, but other classes might or might not have as well, depending on the build. You might max Sac out on the Paladin, though, giving you another 4d6 on each Sac.

Now, another rule. I said "good", not best or optimal or whatever. So while a Fighter/Monk is presumably going to top the tables, you can't just bust him out and show how strong he is, because then the Paladin is merely "not optimal". To actually be bad, you need to be beating that substantially with a couple additional options. I'm willing to concede to being wrong, but you have to lay it out.

[sebastianosmith]

Whomhead's Divine Phoenix (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/407723) build is very versatile. It can dish out decent DPS, has excellent saves and fulfill several roles depending on gear and destiny. Running it effectively involves some intense button mashing, but well worth the effort.

[Enoach]

While I enjoy playing my Pure Paladin, I have to agree that I do not have the DPS of some of the monster DPS builds or other classes. At one point Paladins did have the whole self healing tank role locked up, but now so many classes have just enough self healing even that is no longer a reason.

Paladins get all of their granted aspects at level 6. Every level after that just adds more usage of the Paladin specific abilities. At 3 levels a person can access most of what they need to enhance a character as level 4 to 6 only gets Turn Undead (which most players don't need as Divine Might is now SP driven and not Turn driven), an Extra Smite Evil and Remove Disease.

While not a complete fix, a couple of spells added to the paladin list might make a big difference.

Level 1
Bless Weapon -
This transmutation makes a weapon strike true against evil foes. The weapon is treated as having a +1 enhancement bonus for the purpose of bypassing the damage reduction of evil creatures or striking evil incorporeal creatures (though the spell doesn’t grant an actual enhancement bonus). The weapon also becomes good, which means it can bypass the damage reduction of certain creatures. (This effect overrides and suppresses any other alignment the weapon might have.) Individual arrows or bolts can be transmuted, but affected projectile weapons (such as bows) don’t confer the benefit to the projectiles they shoot.

In addition, all critical hit rolls against evil foes are automatically successful, so every threat is a critical hit. This last effect does not apply to any weapon that already has a magical effect related to critical hits, such as a keen weapon or a vorpal sword.

Magic Weapon -
Magic weapon gives a weapon a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. (An enhancement bonus does not stack with a masterwork weapon’s +1 bonus on attack rolls.)

You can’t cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as an unarmed strike (instead, see magic fang). A monk’s unarmed strike is considered a weapon, and thus it can be enhanced by this spell.
potentially change this to a +1 stacking bonus on the weapons enhancement and ignore the masterwork,

Protection from Chaos - Paladins don't just fight Evil, they also fight Chaos in all its forms
This spell functions like protection from evil, except that the deflection and resistance bonuses apply to attacks from chaotic creatures, and chaotic summoned creatures cannot touch the subject.

Level 2
Shield Other -
This spell wards the subject and creates a mystic connection between you and the subject so that some of its wounds are transferred to you. The subject gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC and a +1 resistance bonus on saves. Additionally, the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including that dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage. The amount of damage not taken by the warded creature is taken by you. Forms of harm that do not involve hit points, such as charm effects, temporary ability damage, level draining, and death effects, are not affected. If the subject suffers a reduction of hit points from a lowered Constitution score, the reduction is not split with you because it is not hit point damage. When the spell ends, subsequent damage is no longer divided between the subject and you, but damage already split is not reassigned to the subject.

Undetectable Alignment -
An undetectable alignment spell conceals the alignment of an object or a creature from all forms of divination.
potentially changing this so that for alignment bypass purposes, it treats the Paladin as True Neutral thus still needing the UMD to bypass use, but not conveying the negatives for using an item because of wrong alignment

Level 3
Magic Circle against Chaos -
See Protection from Chaos above.

Magic Weapon, Greater -
This spell functions like magic weapon, except that it gives a weapon an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5).

Alternatively, you can affect as many as fifty arrows, bolts, or bullets. The projectiles must be of the same kind, and they have to be together (in the same quiver or other container). Projectiles, but not thrown weapons, lose their transmutation when used. (Treat shuriken as projectiles, rather than as thrown weapons, for the purpose of this spell.)
see notes about magic weapon above, again this would be a stacking bonus

Level 4
Dispel Evil -
Dispel Chaos -
Shimmering, white, holy energy surrounds you. This power has three effects.

First, you gain a +4 deflection bonus to AC against attacks by evil/chaotic creatures.

Second, on making a successful melee touch attack against an evil/chaotic creature from another plane, you can choose to drive that creature back to its home plane. The creature can negate the effects with a successful Will save (spell resistance applies). This use discharges and ends the spell.

Third, with a touch you can automatically dispel any one enchantment spell cast by an evil creature or any one evil spell. Exception: Spells that can’t be dispelled by dispel magic also can’t be dispelled by dispel evil/Chaos. Saving throws and spell resistance do not apply to this effect. This use discharges and ends the spell.

Mark of Justice -
You draw an indelible mark on the subject and state some behavior on the part of the subject that will activate the mark. When activated, the mark curses the subject. Typically, you designate some sort of criminal behavior that activates the mark, but you can pick any act you please. The effect of the mark is identical with the effect of bestow curse.

Since this spell takes 10 minutes to cast and involves writing on the target, you can cast it only on a creature that is willing or restrained.

Like the effect of bestow curse, a mark of justice cannot be dispelled, but it can be removed with a break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, remove curse, or wish spell. Remove curse works only if its caster level is equal to or higher than your mark of justice caster level. These restrictions apply regardless of whether the mark has activated.

Also a change to the Holy Sword spell to allow All Melee Weapons (expand the current list)

I would welcome a review/revamp of the Paladin Trees, to make them more comparable with options available to other melee counterparts.

[Wrathharvest]

It occurs to me while looking over the other enhancement trees is that the issue isn't really so much a problem with the Paladin tree. The real issue is two-fold:

- First, Cocoon is way too good and easily accessed. Virtually everyone over level 20 can have access to it and its tremendous for survivability. This makes Paladin self-healing, which used to be its calling card, kind of an afterthought because now its really only useful as a supplement to Cocoon. Obviously this doesn't impact dps per se, but if everyone gets enough survivability to get over the hump through Cocoon, classes with more capacity to trade survivability for dps end up better off. This is the problem, of course, with Barbs as well since Rage = No Cocoon.

- Second, Monks are probably OP, and on top of that, they play really well with the Kensai tree (seriously, how many other trees give bonuses only useful to a class other than the one the tree is in?) making the Fighter/Monk combo really, really strong.

If you broke those two things, Paladins would suddenly look a lot better. Though admittedly, the late paladin levels are still fairly lackluster.

[Grailhawk]

If you broke those two things, Paladins would suddenly look a lot better. Though admittedly, the late paladin levels are still fairly lackluster.

Looking just at DPS though its still behind every other class in the game. It doesn't have nearly as much static damage as a Rogue, can't compete with the Barbadians Crit multiplier, doesn't attack as fast as a Tempest Ranger and has no where near as many feat, you already looked at monk and fighter. Whats that leave bards and casters ok it will beat a bard, and casters are different enough that its not fair to compare them.

That leaves Paladins in really bad company.

[camshaft355]

There is no such thing as a DPS pally.

Yes there is and i just proved it have you seen a paly hit over 100 with no adren or buffs i don't think so....... and it may be splashed but its mainly Paladin build a little add-on with the monk and fighter just for a bit of damage other than that its a paladin build. I can consider it a DPS paly if i want to all i did was prefer it to people if you want to make paladin look good.

[Krelar]

Yes there is and i just proved it have you seen a paly hit over 100 with no adren or buffs i don't think so.......

You haven't actually proved anything yet.

You've made a claim without giving us any details about stats,feats,gear,enhancements, etc. that allowed you to accomplish this. Let a lone a screenshot of a regular hit doing as much damage as you claim.

[NaturalHazard]

Yes there is and i just proved it have you seen a paly hit over 100 with no adren or buffs i don't think so....... and it may be splashed but its mainly Paladin build a little add-on with the monk and fighter just for a bit of damage other than that its a paladin build. I can consider it a DPS paly if i want to all i did was prefer it to people if you want to make paladin look good.

those damage numbers are suppose to be amazing? Im getting higher on my gimp bard..............

[bennyson]

Yes there is and i just proved it have you seen a paly hit over 100 with no adren or buffs i don't think so....... and it may be splashed but its mainly Paladin build a little add-on with the monk and fighter just for a bit of damage other than that its a paladin build. I can consider it a DPS paly if i want to all i did was prefer it to people if you want to make paladin look good.

You cant just say something is when there's no evidence.

You never said anything about what type of gear that character had on, gear is important as well as the overall build, you can have an amazing build but it isn't affective because you didn't give that toon decent gear.

You also never said anything about what enhancements were chosen on that toon as well, was it an archer? A melee? What?

Not only that, you never said anything about what stats it had, we don't know if it had 40 STR, used Int as a dump stat, or if it had 30 dex or something.

Nor is there any graphic evidence (screenshot!) of those damage numbers in action.

For all we know you could have just made it all up.

[oradafu]

I agree with troll.

DDO's Paladin was given two pathetic class trees (okay maybe a little pathetic, but still pathetic) plus their Divine Might was badly changed and was typed to be unstackable with insightful STR items. The only reason why people use Paladin anymore is for the saves, nothing more.

Paladin needs love, am talking real love, as in class trees that give total badass abilities in a way that gives you a reason not to splash Paladin with something else.

If Turbine just listened to their fans regarding the Paladin class trees, they wouldn't have so many angry costumers complaining about what they have done.

The merging of KOTC and HOTD without merging the Slayer of Evil together was just a bad idea. Paladins would currently be in a better place if KOTC and HOTD were never merged so that Paladins would be more useful than just a niche evil mob attacker. It's not like allowing Paladins to do damage to Evil Outsiders and Undead would make them the dominate melee in the game. As stated above, because paladins are niche mob attackers, there's little reason to splash more than 2 or 3 levels and almost no reason to splash more than 6 levels.

The change to Divine Might was outright stupid. Divine Might should have been untouched since it did damage to all mobs and the only way to gain the previous max damage is to get CHA 46, which is unachievable by level 20. This change also means that one of two obvious Epic paladin feats will never see the light of day in DDO: Epic Divine Might - double the damage of CHA modifier. (The other Epic feat that should have been added to the game a year ago is Great Smiting - which doubles the damage of Paladin's Smites.)

Besides, if the Devs really wanted to give Paladins a STR mod boost, they could have added a new ability in one of the trees. It's not like the Devs added a bunch of new stuff for Paladins anyway in the trees.

Does anyone remember what Zeal originally did? Zeal originally increased the attack speed for paladins, and I believe it also stacked with Haste. It was changed to the current Double Strike increase. Why was it changed? It was to cut down on lag a long, long time ago. Now we have Speed items that do exactly the same thing (and it doesn't affect lag, it seems). Now we have other melees (including Clerics and FvS) that get speed attack boosts and Haste. Yet Paladins don't have any such thing.

Speaking of Double Strike, Paladins in Heroics only get it via Zeal or equipment. But other classes get a no cost Double Strike via enhancements. Even Sorcs and Wizards can gain it via Enhancements.

Paladins have no general damage boosters anymore because of the change to Divine Might. On top of that, Paladins are the only class that doesn't gain a no cost general melee damage boost. Even Clerics, FvS, Sorcs, Wizards and Bards get a no cost general damage boost. Everything used to increase damage for Paladins (except for a evil mobs and specific type of subset of evil mobs) costs Paladins something. And the Special attacks on those Evil also cost something.

Smite is limited and doesn't build back up quick enough. So Smite is put into reserves except for major boss fights. Lay on Hands can only build back up when you rest or use an ED/Twist, so a self-healing Paladin is forced into giving up a twist slot or ED to do something that should be a granted ability by level 20 for the class.

[Teh_Troll]

Yes there is and i just proved it have you seen a paly hit over 100 with no adren or buffs i don't think so.......

LOL.

My bard laughs at you, and my bard is terrible.

[maddmatt70]

It occurs to me while looking over the other enhancement trees is that the issue isn't really so much a problem with the Paladin tree. The real issue is two-fold:

- First, Cocoon is way too good and easily accessed. Virtually everyone over level 20 can have access to it and its tremendous for survivability. This makes Paladin self-healing, which used to be its calling card, kind of an afterthought because now its really only useful as a supplement to Cocoon. Obviously this doesn't impact dps per se, but if everyone gets enough survivability to get over the hump through Cocoon, classes with more capacity to trade survivability for dps end up better off. This is the problem, of course, with Barbs as well since Rage = No Cocoon.

I have been leveling up a ranger/paladin/monk build in unyielding sentinel multiple times. One of the strengths of the build is light in the dark the unyielding ability. I can heal the rest of the party who are not always diligent or good at healing themselves seven times which regenerates (lay on hands ability regenerates). The need for a primary healer is lessened even further. I can not help, but think I wish that the paladin base class had a similar ability.



- Second, Monks are probably OP, and on top of that, they play really well with the Kensai tree (seriously, how many other trees give bonuses only useful to a class other than the one the tree is in?) making the Fighter/Monk combo really, really strong.

If you broke those two things, Paladins would suddenly look a lot better. Though admittedly, the late paladin levels are still fairly lackluster.

Fighter/Monk is a nice combo for sure, but there are other combos which are nice as well. I am not sure that Ranger/monk or rogue/monk are really far off fighter/monk, but hey what have you.

[jskinner937]

There is no such thing as a DPS pally.

This is a true statement....

or Bard for that matter. Or pretty much anything that does not have Dance of Flowers and Master of Earth stance.

[jskinner937]

I have a build that I got from a friend and so I used this build and I was hitting 100s-120s as a paladin. Critting around 500-600. It is 15paly/3monk/2fighter its a very good build and I prefer it to people who want to dps.
Can solo most EE in dread ED with Blitz

Dear OP, if you think Pally is the reason you are DPS its not. Pally gives absolutely no DPS value in any trees. As a matter of fact all that is great about a paladin is accessible by 4 levels (if you count gaining the Turn Undead ability, which you do not need at epic levels to get DM usage). Otherwise 2 levels of pally get you everything you will ever need from the pally class. From there if you really want to build a DPS toon, go 12 F and 6M. That will provide way more DPS than 13 more levels of paly ever will.

[Teh_Troll]

. . . Or pretty much anything that does not have Dance of Flowers and Master of Earth stance.

Pretty much. Gotta love Turbine's sense of balance.

[Potatofasf]

DPS Paladin... it not ecsxiste!
You're drunk or dreaming!

[NaturalHazard]

DPS Paladin... it not ecsxiste!
You're drunk or dreaming!

It does!!!! 2 levels of paladin and 18 levels of other things!!!

[Thalone]

http://i40.tinypic.com/2zntvs3.jpg

[emptysands]

To improve the dps options for Paladins, I think they should:

1. Make Zeal a third level spell.
2. Create a new level 2 spell - Anoint Blade (self only). This anoints any weapon in your main hand. Anointed weapons would not prevent a holy/righteous battle mediation (centered) state. Other effects like Deadly Weapon would break the anointed state.

[Ralmeth]

To improve the dps options for Paladins, I think they should:

1. Make Zeal a third level spell.
2. Create a new level 2 spell - Anoint Blade (self only). This anoints any weapon in your main hand. Anointed weapons would not prevent a holy/righteous battle mediation (centered) state. Other effects like Deadly Weapon would break the anointed state.

I'm not sure how that would help...Instead they need to fix up Paladin DPS enhancements to scale upwards to do more damage as you get into epic levels and mobs have a lot more hit points.

[NaturalHazard]

I'm not sure how that would help...Instead they need to fix up Paladin DPS enhancements to scale upwards to do more damage as you get into epic levels and mobs have a lot more hit points.

yes.

[NaturalHazard]

Dear OP, if you think Pally is the reason you are DPS its not. Pally gives absolutely no DPS value in any trees. As a matter of fact all that is great about a paladin is accessible by 4 levels (if you count gaining the Turn Undead ability, which you do not need at epic levels to get DM usage). Otherwise 2 levels of pally get you everything you will ever need from the pally class. From there if you really want to build a DPS toon, go 12 F and 6M. That will provide way more DPS than 13 more levels of paly ever will.

pretty much 4 levels also opens up the option of empowered healing feat if your going to say use cocoon, moot point if your BF probably.

[camshaft355]

You haven't actually proved anything yet.

You've made a claim without giving us any details about stats,feats,gear,enhancements, etc. that allowed you to accomplish this. Let a lone a screenshot of a regular hit doing as much damage as you claim.


You cant just say something is when there's no evidence.

You never said anything about what type of gear that character had on, gear is important as well as the overall build, you can have an amazing build but it isn't affective because you didn't give that toon decent gear.

You also never said anything about what enhancements were chosen on that toon as well, was it an archer? A melee? What?

Not only that, you never said anything about what stats it had, we don't know if it had 40 STR, used Int as a dump stat, or if it had 30 dex or something.

Nor is there any graphic evidence (screenshot!) of those damage numbers in action.

For all we know you could have just made it all up.


LOL.

My bard laughs at you, and my bard is terrible.


well I wasn't getting all intent i was just throwing that build out there and I know that there will be people disagreeing just makes me laugh but I don't want to give the stats and such because I know people can make this build better so go try it out and I do have proof of this build.... Triteron Khyber server was his second life............. I ended up making this build a whole lot better was hitting around 130s-150s which im proud of don't need any people saying their better which you probably are and i don't mind that just don't need to keep telling me that -_-

[Wrathharvest]

They should make Div Sac a stance. Cost 50 hp and 25 sp to activate, cost 3/2/1 hp per swing. +1 to crit multiplier and add 1d6/2d6/3d6 light damage per swing. Would have to bump it up a tier or two or it would be cherry picked like crazy.

Edit - might need to make damage progression more like 0d6/2d6/4d6 and the cost per swing more like 4/3/2 hp plus 1/1/0 sp for the 3 ranks. Prob 2 points per rank.

[gelack]

Since I made the build he is talking about I feel I should add that I made it before u19. So the build I gave him wasn't maxed for u19. It still worked fine, but if I were to do it again I feel 2 ranger 3monk 15pally would be a much better split. The other pally idea I have is 12pally 6ranger 2monk halfling (I've recently found halflings (I had never played one before untill my rog life (10rog 9monk 1druid, was very interesting)) and I love them, my new favourite race).

The damage OP is talking about is while he was in Unyielding Sentinel (I dont remember my numbers in blitz and I don't think he has capped dread yet) on a 2nd life toon. He also doesn't have the amount of gear I have.

Now as for proof of having a dps pally, I intend to do a 3rd pally life sometime in the next 3 or so months. So if I can be bothered I'll post screen shots. Or Trit can do it if he plays it again before I do.

I totally agree that pallys need some love, alot of love, but that doesnt mean that they are all worthless. Just most of them are :)



Pallys can DPS!!
(with a stupid amount of gear and past lives)

[camshaft355]

Since I made the build he is talking about I feel I should add that I made it before u19. So the build I gave him wasn't maxed for u19. It still worked fine, but if I were to do it again I feel 2 ranger 3monk 15pally would be a much better split. The other pally idea I have is 12pally 6ranger 2monk halfling (I've recently found halflings (I had never played one before untill my rog life (10rog 9monk 1druid, was very interesting)) and I love them, my new favourite race).

The damage OP is talking about is while he was in Unyielding Sentinel (I dont remember my numbers in blitz and I don't think he has capped dread yet) on a 2nd life toon. He also doesn't have the amount of gear I have.

Now as for proof of having a dps pally, I intend to do a 3rd pally life sometime in the next 3 or so months. So if I can be bothered I'll post screen shots. Or Trit can do it if he plays it again before I do.

I totally agree that pallys need some love, alot of love, but that doesnt mean that they are all worthless. Just most of them are :)



Pallys can DPS!!
(with a stupid amount of gear and past lives)



:D thanks

[kierg10]

lol my paladin build does first number 150ish per swing, so about 160-250 non crits non blitzing non adrenaline, while in LD.

I use a skybreaker, but of course I'm a paladin 9 fighter 8 monk 3, so little of my DPS comes from paladin.

[Potatofasf]

Make a Full Pally and say what DPS you make!
Multiclass with fighter or monk don't make your Pally or my Pally a DPS... our fighter or monk lvls does!

[bennyson]

Make a Full Pally and say what DPS you make!
Multiclass with fighter or monk don't make your Pally or my Pally a DPS... our fighter or monk lvls does!

Agree to disagree, overall DPS on a pure paladin is kind of sucky right now anyway, which forces people to multiclass their character, so yes, with this kind of paladin the DPS comes from the fighter and monk levels. As there is little the paladin trees have to offer.

[Irenae]

I agree with troll.

DDO's Paladin was given two pathetic class trees (okay maybe a little pathetic, but still pathetic) plus their Divine Might was badly changed and was typed to be unstackable with insightful STR items. The only reason why people use Paladin anymore is for the saves, nothing more.

Paladin needs love, am talking real love, as in class trees that give total badass abilities in a way that gives you a reason not to splash Paladin with something else.

If Turbine just listened to their fans regarding the Paladin class trees, they wouldn't have so many angry costumers complaining about what they have done.

Actually splash Paladin in 3 times is probably the best for fear and disease immunity. Indeed, Paladin needs a lot of love for example Religious feats suck, almost nobody uses Longswords in the first place. Something like Church of the Iron Ram for S&B defender would be tons better. starts with +1 to Bastard Sword and Tower Shield And grants proficiency feats with both of them. In other words we need more choices in Religious based feats, as the only semi-decent one is Unyielding Sovereignty, and even then Lay on Hands is typically better. We also need more spell choices, as we do not get a lot of spells to choose from and we need more spells that are unique to Paladin. Also, Paladins should get 5th level spells, starting with Cure Critical Wounds. Also, rather than having 2 trees, Paladins should have one large tree. Skills should be improved too, at least Intimidate needs to be buffed for us Paladins. Also, Magical Training feat should be automatically granted at level 4 for Paladins and Rangers to signify their ability to cast spells. If all of the above happened Paladin might actually be as good as the other classes.

[goodspeed]

I have a build that I got from a friend and so I used this build and I was hitting 100s-120s as a paladin. Critting around 500-600. It is 15paly/3monk/2fighter its a very good build and I prefer it to people who want to dps.
Can solo most EE in dread ED with Blitz

Ya the fighter is nice for full on melee. For a manyshot take and go 15 pally, 3 ranger, and 2 monk. Or you could give up the second slot spell and go 14 pally. Only thing is not much to gain with the extra ranger lv or the monk. Thinking back while horc is nice... id maybe go helf to use the fighter dili for extra dc's toward stunning blow. The str I can get to 50 maybe more. Saves are all mid 50's or low 60's. dmg is about 120 base a swing then ya add on whatever else from the weapon like hemorrhaging or tunnel vision ect.

But manyshot. Manyshot is really really handy. Not only for cementing your stack of 10 blitz and then just murdering everything with an axe, but you unload a furyshot and you can do some sick upfront dmg. Helps alot for compensating the pure IDIOCY of your random people that don't comprehend to look at the dragon when they're attacking the giant.

Oh hey the giants slivered lets kill em! What?! Why did the Giant come back!!? (Because your a dumbass)

I actually wish we could splash 4 classes cause id take 1 level of pally and trade for fighter for the extra boosts. Get 16 haste boosts going! But 13's ok to.


I enjoy the centered cleaver (save based) as well, but! That's a tightrope. And I have this feeling like the other ends gonna be snipped in an ed pass. Monks are right up there with how sorcerers were pre U9. How I do miss the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dmg from a single fireball or firewall lol. Pallys more cemented. The pally itself sucks. It's horrible. But what it does is give instant heals (concentration can be a mother) immunity, saves for ee, and defense. And the convenience of some spells. Though if some of those spells were 1 tier lower, id definitively splash deeper in other area's.

[-Avalon-]

Second, Monks are probably OP

Sir, I question your experience in this game! :p

Next, I love how people say to see if a class needs fixed because they have sucky DPS or something else, they say make a PURE one, and then compare it to 16 Sorc/2 Pal/2 Mnk, or 12 Ftr/6 Mnk/2 Pal... or several other builds, usually including a 2 Mnk or 6 Mnk, and often paired with a matching 2 Pal... lol

So, play pure and compare with Monk splashes?

How about take a pure 20 Ftr, does it do GREAT dps? It does ok... take a 20 Rog, it does pretty good as well... take 20 monk? WOW, amazing DPS!

The problem is not the way classes are balanced (excluding monks) it is the MONK class. People splash paladin for defensive measures (saves, fear immunity, lay on hands maybe? But defensive all of it)... people splash Monk for Evasion (defensive yes) and stances (earth stance - offensive, air stance - offensive, fire stance - offensive), but also to get access to the Dance of Flowers (offensive). How many people actually play 20 monk anymore, and how many play 2 or 6 lvl monk splashes?

If your class is used to get 2 level splashes, then something is wrong, because it means most of your power is front loaded into the first 2 or 3 levels. Imagine if 2 Ranger gave you Greater TWF, or if Greater Rage 3/day was 2nd level Barb, etc... too much power too early equals a broken class, for the paladin, it means broken in the defensive direction only, for monk it is both directions at the same time!

Unfortunately, Monk actually gets too much power spread evenly across 20 levels, and in the first 2 levels gets enough to warrant 10-16 levels of any other classes abilities. How can fighter 2 (really only chosen for Tower Shield prof and 2 extra feats) be equal to monk 2 (evasion, 2% dodge, flurry, 2 to all saves, meditation, elemental finishing moves, AC bonus from wis, AND 2 bonus feats??)

They get basically 8 different extras, fighter would take (including the tower shield prof as an 'extra') 12 levels to catch up in number, Barbarian 11 levels (other stuff is just adding to the same abilities and not really EXTRA by definition), Ranger is ok with 4-6 levels (pending on build and what you consider to be good extras)


Paladin gets caught up in THREE levels and then does absolutely nothing really neat for 17 levels (just add to pre-existing abilities)... whereas, monk just continues to add more stuff (and level up pre-existing abilities as well!)

[goodspeed]

actually 2 fighter is used to net you the 2 feats, as well as +3 to boosts and +3 to combat dc's and 30% haste boost as well as an extra 1 point of dmg (lil frosting) maybe an extra 3% dodge as well as 3 reflex and dodge cap if you don't have it elsewhere.

If they only gave evasion to fighters in those first 2 levels. Hell go 6 for all out extra dmg, and a toggle to stack your prr, prr boosts, hp boosts, while in LD. lol fighters so badass now. One of the few classes with real incentive to take to 12.

[-Avalon-]

actually 2 fighter is used to net you the 2 feats, as well as +3 to boosts and +3 to combat dc's and 30% haste boost as well as an extra 1 point of dmg (lil frosting) maybe an extra 3% dodge as well as 3 reflex and dodge cap if you don't have it elsewhere.

I was just giving auto-grants in my examples... those other things you have to spend points on (only have 80, and I know I get tight on points every build I make/play, so figure that you cannot say you GET those other things, just go with auto-grants)


If they only gave evasion to fighters in those first 2 levels. Hell go 6 for all out extra dmg, and a toggle to stack your prr, prr boosts, hp boosts, while in LD. lol fighters so badass now. One of the few classes with real incentive to take to 12.

Well, I have been asking for some form of 'evasion' like feat for Str/Con builds for a long time, something revolving around armor or con score. Too many things in game revolve around Reflex and actually moving out of the way or taking 700-1000 damage for not doing so. So now, we have raids like FoT, where several times I have heard that if you want to be the 'tank' (and I use that term VERY loosely) that you need to have 100+ AC, 100+ PRR, AND have evasion... so, we have a Defense Pass that changed the whole system, but we ended up in the exact same position we were in before, because they didn't change the system that NEEDED changing.

AC was fine the way it was, in fact, it was better that way. Because, back then, you had an option: go for evasion and survive magical attacks, or go for AC and survive physical attacks. Some builds made it capable of doing both, and thus proved that one of the biggest problems (and hence a big reason why DDO is sometimes called Pay2WIN) is the Monk class. If we only had rogue to give us evasion, we would have been stuck with low AC evasion builds. But due to Monk, we could get major AC and Evasion on same toon. The solution, is to fix monk, and to add an ability to 'soak' any damage while wearing heavy armor... PRR should be DRR, Damage resistance Rating, and apply to all damage, not just physical...

As it stands now, we have a big guy charge and do a good bit of damage to a tank, who then gets burned to ashes by the dragon's breath, while the evasion build dodges the big guy, then nimbly somersaults around the field avoiding the dragon breath as well... how many times have we seen and read about the tank in stories who just braces for the breath and deals with it, shrugs, and dusts off the ashes on his armor, then moves in for the kill? Armor should actually provide REAL benefits. Maybe they should start amping up the bonuses ON the armor, kind of like they did for staves to help equal out all the dual-scepter toons? Make robes have basic amounts, light have an extra ability, medium have more, then heavy have a ton?

/shrug... think they should just make an ability for armor wearers to actually have a reason to wear the stuff.