Archmage SLAs

[dunklezhan]

OK. So I understand why you wouldn't want maximise, empower etc on the damaging SLAs any more. But can we at least get the ability to put heighten on them? Or raise the effective spell level? Arcane bolt is a L2 spell! By L5 you see saves more often than not, by L10 mobs are evading all over the place. What's the point? For those rare occasions where they fail a save and you get a whole 200 pts of damage post-L20? Come on. We get them on the Core Abilities (at least for AM) if we choose them, why can't we get them on the main SLA?

/sign (for all the good it does) for Heighten on SLAs!!

[FranOhmsford]

OK. So I understand why you wouldn't want maximise, empower etc on the damaging SLAs any more.

What? What? WHAT?

Since when?

If true this is an absolutely Insane Nerf to a Prestige that has always been Sloppy Seconds to PM!


ALL Metas SHOULD work with SLAs Otherwise there's Absolutely NO Point to SLAs!

[EllisDee37]

What? What? WHAT?

Since when?

If true this is an absolutely Insane Nerf to a Prestige that has always been Sloppy Seconds to PM!


ALL Metas SHOULD work with SLAs Otherwise there's Absolutely NO Point to SLAs!He's talking about the SLAs in the tree, not the core abilities. For archmages that's Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast, for pale masters that's Necrotic Bolt and Necrotic Blast. None of them have ever allowed metamagics, both before and after the enhancement pass.

[FranOhmsford]

He's talking about the SLAs in the tree, not the core abilities. For archmages that's Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast, for pale masters that's Necrotic Bolt and Necrotic Blast. None of them have ever allowed metamagics, both before and after the enhancement pass.

Thank goodness for small mercies!

Seriously though - Arcane Bolt/Blast AND Necro Bolt/Blast Really should allow Max/Emp/Heighten/Enlarge in my not so humble opinion.

[bennyson]

OK. So I understand why you wouldn't want maximise, empower etc on the damaging SLAs any more. But can we at least get the ability to put heighten on them? Or raise the effective spell level? Arcane bolt is a L2 spell! By L5 you see saves more often than not, by L10 mobs are evading all over the place. What's the point? For those rare occasions where they fail a save and you get a whole 200 pts of damage post-L20? Come on. We get them on the Core Abilities (at least for AM) if we choose them, why can't we get them on the main SLA?

/sign (for all the good it does) for Heighten on SLAs!!

What? Were you talking about Arcane Bolt/Blast or Necroic Bolt/Blast?

Core Archmage SLAS ARE affect by metemagic feats, however, the bolt and blast attacks cannot be affected by metes, they never have been before and after U19.

[dunklezhan]

What? Were you talking about Arcane Bolt/Blast or Necroic Bolt/Blast?

Core Archmage SLAS ARE affect by metemagic feats, however, the bolt and blast attacks cannot be affected by metes, they never have been before and after U19.

Clearly my memory is faulty I'm sure I could meta them before the enhancement pass.

In any case yes I am talking about the slas in the trees. The fact they cannot at least be heightened is (and apparently was) redonkulous. I can live without maximise etc - they are very cheap and when mobs do fail saves I believe they are an appropriate amount of damage. But because they cannot be heightened, I very, very rarely see a failed save even at relatively low levels.

Either that or just make them have a spell level at equal to your own caster level. If thats unbalanced cos theyre so cheap, then make them cost 1sp extra per 2 caster levels above the min caster level for the sla ( so +1sp at L5 since arcane bolt is treated as a l2,spell so must be mincaster level 3).


Or something. But really, they have a 6 second cool down, arcane blast is quite expensive till tier three. They're already hamstrung enough. Just about everything saves vs both meaning they're more or less absolutely useless as they are. But allow heighten or just make them scale with caster level for saves as well as damage and they'd be fine.

No other spell scales like that of course,,spell level stays fixed even if damage goes up... but then the absence of any metamagic options means these slas are not like other spells to begin with. As it is, the slas are worst of both worlds - they scale like other spells but don't have the option to apply heighten to.

And in any case... I can apply metas to the arcane initiate feat and that's a no save nonmissing force spell. It might cost a feat but arcane blast requires a significant investment too. Its just one you can change with plat.

[fmalfeas]

I don't know anyone who plays AM frequently that took Arcane Bolt and Blast, even before the pass. At least the PM ones are Fort saves, and cost HP rather than SP, which can be recovered with cheap plat-bought pots. The AM ones are reflex saves (hello, evasion!) and cost actual SP.

Personally, I'd rather use my SP on something that will /do something/. Since so many mobs seem to have Evasion these days, Heighten is almost a requirement for anything with a reflex save that is below level 7. And sometimes, you even need to heighten that Delayed Blast Fireball if you want a ghost of a chance of doing something. With Arcane Bolt being level 2, that's stripping 7 DC off it right there. Ugh.

And the PM ones, on top of being cheaply limitless, have another advantage. Since they count as Necromancy, a Magister PM can use them to strip a mob of it's fort saves reliably. Anything with a reflex save that makes you want to do that tends to have Evasion, so the spell won't connect at all, and thus, you don't get to take your 5-15% roll to strip some of it's reflex save off it.

Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast are the biggest wastes of AP and SP in the entire enhancement system, in my opinion. I can't think of anything else so utterly counterproductive.

[bennyson]

Clearly my memory is faulty I'm sure I could meta them before the enhancement pass.

No, I've played tested both Pale Master and Archmage abilities before and after U19.

Archmage SLAs with the old enhancement system were affected by metes, but not Arcane bolt/blast. The same thing is true with Pale Master, their old skeleton summons were affect by Quicken, but not their HP cost attack spells.