Caster levels - Useful max.

[Icywave]

Reading spell descriptions I have come across, it seems to me, that in most cases, having more than 25 Caster levels is kinda useless.

I would like to have opinions on the matter or additional info, if there is any.

Appreciated.

EDIT:

MAX CASTER LEVEL can go up to 32. I have tested it.
+4 from Core Enhancements of Savant Trees.
+3 From Draconic Tree.

I have done tests to confirm with Polar Ray, a CL 25 spells.

So my original assumption was incorrect. Glad it was in a way :)

[thesnoman]

I believe you are correct. Over 25 caster levels = no benefit (unless you're talking about mass repair spells - but seriously - who has a full party of Warforged?)

[Icywave]

I believe you are correct. Over 25 caster levels = no benefit (unless you're talking about mass repair spells - but seriously - who has a full party of Warforged?)

I was mainly asking cuz I dropped 2 Sorc levels, to get 2 Mnk/2 Pal/16 Sorc, and with enhancements and EDs, I have like 27 Caster Levels, so it doesn't seem to have affected my damage whatsoever., except the 10 Cold Spell points I lost... oh well.

[Enoach]

Outside of Spell Penetration checks which uses Caster Level, there are not many spells that do damage that exceed the level 25 Caster Level.

However, short term buffs do benefit from having as many caster levels as possible.

[Icywave]

Outside of Spell Penetration checks which uses Caster Level, there are not many spells that do damage that exceed the level 25 Caster Level.

However, short term buffs do benefit from having as many caster levels as possible.

Perfect, thanks.

[Neomarica]

Spell penetration. Also, the savant trees increase max caster level of that kind of spells.

Other than that, yeah, over 25 CL is kind of useless.

[Icywave]

Spell penetration. Also, the savant trees increase max caster level of that kind of spells.

Other than that, yeah, over 25 CL is kind of useless.

Ya, despite 2 levels of Pally and 2 Levels of Monk... still have 27 Caster levels for my ice spells, so not too worried it seems. I've been playing with those 2 monk levels for the past few days and haven't noticed any loss in damage output.

[xTethx]

Correct me if im wrong, but the savant lines also increase effective maximum caster level on that element. I believe there are 3 tiers so for example black dragon bolt can be increased to level 28 for acid and polar ray can be increased to 28 for water. Of course I have never tested this with new enhancements as it requires sorcerer, and we all know wizards are more op ;)

[voodoogroves]

Correct me if im wrong, but the savant lines also increase effective maximum caster level on that element. I believe there are 3 tiers so for example black dragon bolt can be increased to level 28 for acid and polar ray can be increased to 28 for water. Of course I have never tested this with new enhancements as it requires sorcerer, and we all know wizards are more op ;)

The max CL boosts are only on the later cores, not the early ones so that a pure could get a higher max CL.

[xTethx]

The max CL boosts are only on the later cores, not the early ones so that a pure could get a higher max CL.

6,12,18, and 20. Yea I guess you are right, forgot this thread was mostly referenced for splashes.

[Icywave]

The max CL boosts are only on the later cores, not the early ones so that a pure could get a higher max CL.

Based on the wording within the Enhancements... My understanding was that it increased the toon's caster level... not the max casting level of the spell itself. If that's the case, then that changes things...

So right now, I have a lvl 27 caster level, but spell descriptions indicate lvl 25 max caster level....hence not seeing the need for pure Sorc.

I'm opened to more info on the matter :)

[voodoogroves]

Based on the wording within the Enhancements... My understanding was that it increased the toon's caster level... not the max casting level of the spell itself. If that's the case, then that changes things...

So right now, I have a lvl 27 caster level, but spell descriptions indicate lvl 25 max caster level....hence not seeing the need for pure Sorc.

I'm opened to more info on the matter :)

Pretty sure it does.

But, I'm also pretty sure it is fairly meaningless with so few spells it affects.

[Icywave]

Pretty sure it does.

But, I'm also pretty sure it is fairly meaningless with so few spells it affects.

Gonna stick to 16 Sorc/2 Pally/2 Monk then :) I think the " may be " little difference on damage output isn't worth the fact of having a highly survivable character for EEs.

[thesnoman]

Gonna stick to 16 Sorc/2 Pally/2 Monk then :) I think the " may be " little difference on damage output isn't worth the fact of having a highly survivable character for EEs.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity...

Since you've got multiple threads regarding Max CL, Max Crit Chance, etc - are you running primarily in Draconic Incarnation or are you planning on this being a Shiradi build?


If you're eventually going Shiradi, I'd seriously consider Fire Savant with FvS levels instead of Monk. Even if you stay in Draconic, the synergy between FvS and Fire Savant makes it very hard to turn down. (Plus you get a blue bar that just keeps going and going and going)

[Icywave]

Just to satisfy my own curiosity...

Since you've got multiple threads regarding Max CL, Max Crit Chance, etc - are you running primarily in Draconic Incarnation or are you planning on this being a Shiradi build?


Yes, I made a few posts, since I had questions in order to optimize my stuff, and it didn't all come to mind at once. Also, I'd rather have specific questions :)

To answer you, NO, I WILL NOT GO SHIRADI. Yes, it seems like an endless spamming of magic/force missiles without worries in regard to spell points, but I don't wanna be part of that trend.

I am Bladeforged, 2 Monk/2Pally/16 Sorc, Water Savant. I don't know many who play this, and I am okay with this.

I am running in Draconic Incarnation. I have twisted Endless Faith, Evocation Specialist and Unearthly Reactions/Evocation Augmentation, depending if running an EE or not.



If you're eventually going Shiradi, I'd seriously consider Fire Savant with FvS levels instead of Monk. Even if you stay in Draconic, the synergy between FvS and Fire Savant makes it very hard to turn down. (Plus you get a blue bar that just keeps going and going and going)

I like Evasion since my saves are in the 65-75 once buffed. So Monk reduces the incoming damage by quite a bit.

[thesnoman]

Curiosity Satisfied

Looks solid - I've seen a few 16/2/2 S/M/P around these days - seems to be getting more popular.

Wouldn't recommend FvS for anything except a Fire Savant and it's really better if you go Shiradi.

As one of the first wave of Shiradi Casters, (not long after High Road was released), and having played 3 lives as one (plus Epic lives), I don't agree that it's constant spamming of missile spells, although there are times when that's all you do. Because of my endless mana bar, I now tend to throw in a bunch of FB/DBFB during my rotation and constantly cast Solid Fog and Ice Storm for CC. I know it's not for everyone, but Shiradi really isn't much different from any other Sorc - you get into a rotation of spells and cycle through them (Ice storm, Niac's Biting Cold, Frost Lance, Polar Ray for Water Savants as an example).

I've also worked hard at perfecting my version of the build (I went Bladeforged on my current life), so I'm a bit defensive about it, (sorry for the rant).

[Icywave]

I've also worked hard at perfecting my version of the build (I went Bladeforged on my current life), so I'm a bit defensive about it, (sorry for the rant).

Nah man, that's cool. To each their opinions. :)

[Icywave]

I have done some testing ... and I was wrong in my initial post.

Indeed, the max caster level goes beyond CL 25.

From the 3rd Core Enhancements of Savant Trees and up to the last, it increases caster lvl and max caster lvl of the spell. so +4 there. Draconic tree, " Color " Dragon Spell Knowledge can give you +3 once more.

So total.. you can get +7 for a total of a CL 32 Spell, if you were pure Sorc.

I have done tests with Polar Ray, being a CL 25 spell. And yes, there is indeed a difference and CL 25 isn't the limitation.

That said, I still limit my self to CL 30 with my splashing and live well with that DPS difference, figuring out that the survivability trade off is better, since dead casters can't damage anything.

[Exiledtyrant]

I am still pretty confused about caster levels. I hopped on Lamania recently to mess with some spells and going full earth savant and draconic in elemental form I got to 34 caster level on all my acid spells, my acid energy burst however stopped at 31, and my acid dragon breath stopped at 28. I know burst and dragon breath were getting effected because their caster level would go up by one or down by one if my ele form was on or off.

To make things even more unclear acid rain is supposedly capped a 15 so even with 8 max caster levels(4 from savant, +1 from ele form + 3 from draconic) it should be 23 correct? However my acid rain was casting at 34 on my combat log as was my melfs acid arrow and black dragon bolt.

Why are level 2 and 4 spells exceeding epic spells in caster level?
Is the combat log just bugged? it's hard to test just 1 or 2 CL difference because of two problems. 1. being they are tied to spell power mostly and 2 they are in small increments of 1d3 or 1d4 a caster level.

************************************************** *************************************

Ok so after further testing I leveled the lama sorcer up to 28 and the caster levels changed again. The above test were done on a 23 level sorc.

These new test at 28 yield a 35 caster level for my acid based spell. Where the extra 1 caster level comes from I have no idea. All spells no matter what level they are see to be casting at 35 if they are acid based.

Epic spells are following some entirely different scaling. Energy burst has gone from 31 to 38 and dragon breath has gone from 28 to 38. How this happened again no idea.

Hell Ball was at caster level 10 when I first got it then when I hi max level the combat log says it is caster level 1. The damage doesn't seem to have suffered though. I'll play around with the 3 caster levels not tied to draconic and see if the damage ranges have changed in a meaningful way.

After playing around with black dragon bolt and acid rain Testing a drop of 3-8 caster level with and without the draconic spell power. It looks like 35 caster levels does nothing and 32-33 caster levels is so small it comes down to a difference to small to keep trying to track. Acid rain has no difference between 28-35 caster levels. So I believe it is safe to say it's max should be 23 caster level with all ML caster buffs on.

The epic spells have just been confusing me so I left them alone I can't figure their scaling at all.

It's looks like there needs to be some kind of display bug fix as their is a big difference from missing no levels of damage to missing up to 10 or more which adds up to a lot of base damage before spell power.