why are Shadar-kai so gimped

[Clarice]

I have looking again at the Iconic Heroes, and I just wonder why Shadar-kai are so gimped ?

they lose the extra Human feat at level 1, and they only get one ability enhancement when all other races get 2. What makes them worth taking ?

Can't see it myself atm


Clarice

[Therrias]

+1 dodge past life.

Until then you enjoy shadow wings and extra sneak attack. Great for pale trappers and unarmed monks.

[tapster]

As a Shadar-kai monk I love the extra sneak, (I can't stand Halflings).

The AOE chain is icing for me as, contrary to another thread somewhere, it doesn't uncentre you

[Violith]

As a Shadar-kai monk I love the extra sneak, (I can't stand Halflings).

The AOE chain is icing for me as, contrary to another thread somewhere, it doesn't uncentre you

chain would be nice if it kept our sneak attack, for the low amount of damage it does after about lvl 18 I had to respec and merely take the first ability of it since the AP cost was too much for all of it without really much gain, (max damage is only like 130peirce+20slash so 75dmg averaged max reflex for half, for a min of 13pts spent in the tree... my unarmed damage can hit for 3-4x more then that in the amount of time the attack sequence is, AOE is nice but could just pick up a cleave or two and deal more damage for less AP Cost) the knockdown was nice but not nearly as good as I hoped for my build (max DC of what 38+dexmod, which since its reflex it can be evaded as can the damage), the 20sec whirl was decent with the burst damage (up to an extra 120dmg (60av)) when I had it and the burst damage was only like 3-4 times outta the 20sec and had to build up rather then be a constant increase so it drew agro quick (usually on the first burst damage) and usually causes you to abort it before its that high if you didnt want to end up dead.

would've liked to spend more pts in the racial tree, the invisibility/incorp stuff seemed nice, but everything was just too expensive, think basically everything worthwhile was 2AP. which for a racial tree broke the bank too much to be worth it, dont even think I have a T5 ability on my shadarkai due to AP.

racial AP costs should only be 2 for powerful abiltiies (the whirl chain, the base chain, stat core, possibly the chain knockdown) everything else should cost 1 (chain build ups, the last 3 cores, gloomstalker, nothing is hidden (sure the elven/drow are 2AP but theirs is at t2 so only requiring 5pts spent in tree, shadarkai's is at t4 requiring 15pts spent in tree) wintered favored (seriously 2AP for 1d6 cold dmg? that only worked on sneak attacks).

chain attacks should be changed,
base chain should be 1d6+4dmg +1d6/lvl, with current sneak attack applying, even if they have agro.
whirling chain should give 50-100ppr when its active (10ppr is just too small of a drop to do any good), and should have current sneak attack apply in addition to the burst. and then maybe it'd be worth it.
Either that or make it give the dizzing chain debuff that enemies get (-10% Weapon Damage per stack, 5% Attack Speed per stack, -2 Concentration per stacks Stacks up to 8 times, stack adding up every 2 seconds that it is active, so -80%dmg, -40% attack speed, and -16concentration, timer based on stacks and takes 1 stack off each time it wears off) seems about right for the cost of investment, xD, course we dont have the same CD that the enemies get (theirs is like 5seconds as opposed to our 3min CD, but it balances it out dontcha think)

[Red_Knight]

I think you're maybe forgetting that Shadar-Kai are intended as rogues. The chain attacks don't break stealth, and do some rather good damage. Maybe not "one shot everything on epic elite", but still good damage. I decided to try soloing the Spinner of Shadows chain on a newly made shadar kai, did pretty good without any hirelings till the last quest in the chain. Sneaking into a sizable group, hitting the whirling chain ability (I think that's the name of the 20 second duration one), and then watching the entire group including the death knights and red name dropping after 20 seconds... And I was still stealthed? That was awesome. I then went to Forgotten realms and started doing quests 2 or 3 levels above me. Again, I had to be careful but I was running level 18 quests at level 15.

Maybe you find them gimped because you are using the iconic race for a class it's racial abilities are ill suited for?

And by the way, I have seen the chain deal sneak attack damage in addition to it's normal damage.

[Relem]

Red Knight, I think what you did was down to you as a player and not down to being Shadar-Kia. On Pre-U19 content up to EH, my Shadar-Kia assassin is having a great laugh whipping and assassinating everything. On Post U19 content and specifically EE, not having fun at all. Why? Due to the stupidly high saves the mobs have, and I can see matters are only going to get worse with each new adventure pack that comes out. Instead of letting players create balanced assassins that can assassinate on a regular basis and cause a a fair amount of damage with their chain, you have to choose which you ability you want to do. Put everything in Dex, your chain will cause a bit of damage but will attract more aggro then Bruce Willis and your survival rate drops because you can't self heal when that chain is spinning. Or go pure Int based for your assassinate, then hope you can one shot the target you're after (which incidentally is likely to save anyway).

A player controlled Shadar-Kia can not be anywhere near as dangerous as the Dev controlled Shadar-Kia, especially since their chain has the dizzying effect. Our only saving grace is that the Dev team does not have the assassinate ability... For now.

Face it people, the game is unbalanced. It's driven by the CoD Head Shot players that make toons like the Moncher and Shiradi Casters, and the devs response is to make quests where the mobs have stupidly high HP and saves which is killing the game for pure classes.

[oradafu]

Face it people, the game is unbalanced. It's driven by the CoD Head Shot players that make toons like the Moncher and Shiradi Casters, and the devs response is to make quests where the mobs have stupidly high HP and saves which is killing the game for pure classes.

It didn't help that when the new enhancement pass happened, the Devs totally ignored pure classes after giving multiclasses the 6 tree boost. The core abilities as a whole are completely weak, not just the capstones.

And at the time, the Devs not only ignored players complaints about the weak capstones, but openly mocked players who complained by shutting down input to boosting capstones by stating that increasing the capstones would be "unreasonable." Yes, boosting capstones was considered unreasonable when compared to the additional 3 to 4 additional trees with low-hanging fruit of abilities for splashing one or two levels. And it's been at least 6 months since the Devs shut down player input to capstones, much less the upper core abilities.

[Rhysem]

Can't make any claim to CoD unless you mean Crossroads of Dereth... which I doubt.

I was thinking about rolling up a Shadar for the pl for my last monk life too, with a strange 8 monk/6 rogue/6 fighter split, focused on the TA's knockdown quarterstaff AoE, Whirlwind Attack, and the chain set. Would it work if my goal is only to hit 28 and ITR and I don't really care about doing EEs? (I see a lot of "anything works" in EH, and yes I understand but I might like to solo competently "for fun" and I don't just mean VON3.)

[Theolin]

Can't make any claim to CoD unless you mean Crossroads of Dereth... which I doubt.

I was thinking about rolling up a Shadar for the pl for my last monk life too, with a strange 8 monk/6 rogue/6 fighter split, focused on the TA's knockdown quarterstaff AoE, Whirlwind Attack, and the chain set. Would it work if my goal is only to hit 28 and ITR and I don't really care about doing EEs? (I see a lot of "anything works" in EH, and yes I understand but I might like to solo competently "for fun" and I don't just mean VON3.)

I have a 8/6/6 shadar ...it works really well as a dex based cleaving staff wielder - actually 6/6/6 & pick 1 to be 8 is quite survivable with just cocoon at least for EH, its not bad for most EEs, healing is an issue but it is with any melee in EE.

[Silken-Akira]

I have a pure one (assasin) that just hit 20 and have to admit that going up I will respec but with being pure I don't find not enough interesting stuff. I also don't find the capstone of the race worth it at all.

[Valakai]

They look kind of cool and start at level 15...unfortunately that is pretty much it on the positives.

Aaaand I have one and she is awesome...but would be better from min/max as human though not by much.

[Sokól]

I agree the racial tree is great in heroics but not very special in epics. I tr´ed into 1 thinking they had an extra feat.

The only thing they got going for them is how cool they look.

[tapster]

I agree the racial tree is great in heroics but not very special in epics. I tr´ed into 1 thinking they had an extra feat.

The only thing they got going for them is how cool they look.



I can finally have the cambion I always wanted...(thankyou glowing eyes cosmetic)

[stoerm]

I'm considering purchasing Shadar-Kai. Without any experience the enhancement tree looks worse than for humans. No healing amp etc. and now it turns out they don't get a 2nd feat at level one. Doesn't look very appealing.

[MartinusWyllt]

The 1 rogue/14 monk version as a crucible toon is great, can hit 37 or 38 v. traps then shadow your way to the horn (as well as easily get the agility and intuition horns) and get out and that's off-the-rack.

[IronClan]

It's a simple matter of the other iconics having unintended synergies as something else besides their default class. Shadar just aren't better at anything they should be better at. And the main thing that could have made them very interesting (abundant step without 12 monk 17fvs etc. Is saddled with a cooldowns so long that its not fun and not worth bothering with as a selling point to make a build out of. The cost of their racials are amazing (morninglord suffers the same problem, sunburst SLA with a 26 second cd for 30ish AP? No thanks)

[Iriale]

Well, the shadar kai have a racial tree. Better o worse, but all races have a racial tree

but, where are all shadar-kai racial feats?

See:
Dwarf:
• +2 Constitution, –2 Charisma.
• Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves may treat dwarven axe as martial weapons (meaning you class needs martial weapons to gain Dwarven axe by default, Rogues for example, do not get martial weapons by default), rather than exotic weapons.
• +4 racial bonus on balance ability checks.
• +2 racial bonus on Search checks.
• +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison.
• +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells.
• +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids.
• +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type.

Elf (and morninglord after the next update)
• +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution
• Immunity to sleep spells and effects
• +2 saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects
• +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
• Weapon Proficiency: Elves are automatically proficient with the longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow.

Halfling
• +2 Dexterity, –2 Strength
• +1 size bonus to Armor Class
• +1 size bonus on attack rolls
• +4 size bonus on Hide checks
• +2 racial bonus on Jump, Listen, and Move Silently checks.
• +1 racial bonus on all saving throws.
• +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear: This bonus stacks with the Halfling’s +1 bonus on saving throws in general.
• +1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown weapons.
• Carrying capacity is three-quarters of that of a Medium character.
• -4 intimidate penalty for each class size lower (-4 vs. normal, -8 vs. large)

Human and Purple dragon:
• +4 skill points at character creation
• +1 skill point at every level after level 1
• 1 bonus feat at level 1.

Drow:
• +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution
• Immunity to sleep spells and effects
• +2 saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects
• Spell Resistance: 10+Character Level
• +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
• Weapon Proficiency: Drow are automatically proficient with the rapiers, shortswords, and shurikens.

Warforged:
• +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma
• Immune to Sleep, Hold Person, Energy Drained, Nauseated, Exhausted, and Paralyzed effects.
• Immune to ability score damage from Natural Poisons, and Natural Diseases but are vulnerable to those that effect wood or metal.
• Warforged gain a +10 racial bonus to saving throws against Magical Poisons and Magical Diseases and do not fail saving throws against them on a roll of a natural 1 (this makes you immune to Magical Poisons and Magical Diseases with a DC of less than 11+your Fortitude save). If you transform into a different type of creature, you will lose these benefits until you return to your Warforged form.
• Immunity to spells targeting a humanoid.
• A Warforged can remain underwater indefinitely (no oxygen bar displayed).
• A Warforged's Composite Plating provides 5% arcane spell failure chance. This plating is not considered natural armor, and it takes the place of body armor. Because of this, the Warforged is prohibited from wearing other kinds of armor, regardless of its class proficiencies. It can still wield shields and other enhancing items such as helmets, boots, trinkets, and jewelry. Feats taken at character creation can upgrade this plating and its type, changing it to either light or heavy armor. See also Mithral Body, Adamantine Body.
• The ability to wear a docent in the slot which other characters use for armor. Magical docents usually provide an enchantment bonus to armor class, and may have other magical enhancements. They also have a cosmetic effect on appearance.
• A Warforged's plating also grants it a special feat which provides a stacking +25% Fortification. When the Warforged is the target of a sneak attack or critical hit, there is a 25% chance for the attack to be negated and the damage to be rolled normally. This effect stacks with Fortification.
• Divine healing spells and potions restore only half as many hit points as normal for a Warforged (this can be increased up to 80% effectiveness with the addition of the Healer's Friend racial enhancement). A warforged's hit points can be restored normally through arcane repair spells and potions, as well as the Lay on hands Paladin ability or the Divine healing cleric enha
Bladeforged has warforged traits and additional traits

Halfelf
• Dilettante feat at level 1.
• +1 racial bonus to Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
• Naturally immune to magical sleep effects.
• +2 racial bonus to Diplomacy, and also gain an additional check for each use of Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate on a separate cooldown timer.
(of course dilettante feat is garbage without a cheap improvement for enhancements, but they have racial traits)

But Shadar-kai has:
• +2 Dexterity
• -2 Charisma

??? it's a joke. They don't have racial traits. Morninglords don't have racial traits now, but devs will fix in the next update. Shadar-kai won't obtain a fix.

please, bug report. Our complains and bug reports have got a fix for morninglords. But shadar-kai need a fix too.

[thegreatneil]

There is plenty of junk in the Shadar-kia tree.
And they don't get a bonus feat due to not being human (sorta)

From wiki: Shadar-kai Do Not receive a bonus feat at level 1 since they are Extraplanar, Outsiders from the Plane of Shadow.
I do hope that they cant be banished, but who knows.

Now there are a few gems in the tree, if you look hard.
The shadow phase and jaunt, excellent for hit and run tactics, and losing agro. (even solo)
Improved dodge.
Guile.
Gloom stalker, love this ability, as it triggers first so you can assassinate mobs even if you have agro.

Tried the chain and thought, would have been faster to have just stabbed them.

As for Nothing is hidden, if it didn't need both spot and search to work I would use it as well but as is, I cant think of a way to get BOTH
high enough.

[Irenae]

actually, they can be banished but I doubt DDO will implement that. When banished they go back to the extraplaner world they are from. They can however also come back to this world again too if they can find a portal.

[Icywave]

What makes them worth taking ?


The past life Passive AND Toggle are very nice.

[Livmo]

I have looking again at the Iconic Heroes, and I just wonder why Shadar-kai are so gimped ?

they lose the extra Human feat at level 1, and they only get one ability enhancement when all other races get 2. What makes them worth taking ?

Can't see it myself atm


Clarice

I have 3 Shadar's, but my fav is a custom pure build with no splash. I had to adapt my play style for the particulars of them. The custom is L16 banking xp. I'm having allot of fun with this toon.

My fav. part is my UMD, so I can use scrolls and wands. I can solo this toon quite well by pumping UMD for self-heals and such. One change in tactics I use, is to get the baddies to cluster and then I whip the bejeezus out of them :D

With the UMD I use Invisible scrolls. If you use the chain whip while invissible it doesn't break the invis. The cool down is a little too long, but I can see why. The chain whip can be very effective. I pair this with the ability to sneak. I'm pleased I can jump now without breaking the sneak. I'm also rolling with Displacement and Blur scrolls.

On a side note, I'm using allot of augments. Especially the yellows for the elemental resists. I have an awesome shortbow and light repeater I put Festival Icy Burst on that are a blast. I have a nice set of rapiers and I'm also dual wielding Envenomed blades depending on the baddies and their DRs.

I'm using a Skullduggary belt (slotted Gift of Master in it), Parasitic Breast Plate with Symbiot, and Shade's Hood. I have a varitety of rings I'm using depending on the situation.

The only place I've had trouble so far is Heroic Elite dragons in ToR. Otherwise GH has been fun. I also did Overgrowth and Murder by Night with just a hire and I was way under level and completed both. Good times.

I'm starting to plan for epics, but I'm having too much fun at L16 to want to level right now. In my opinion they are not gimp. I may or may not change my opinion once I go epic.

0-[====>Shadar-Kai Edit<====]-0

I upgraded the Parasitic Breastplate with Will Save and I forgot to mention that.

[Clemeit]

You start 14 levels ahead of everyone else. What more could you possibly want?

[Irenae]

All iconics tend to be gimped, sure bladeforged is not so bad , but it's not how I want to play. You can't choose an iconics race and it's race tends to be useless on iconics. Morninglord is a good example, it starts with a wizard like stat point build for a cleric? yeah, tends to hurt that iconics are not designed with optimization in mind.

[Jasparion]

As a Shadar-kai monk I love the extra sneak, (I can't stand Halflings).

The AOE chain is icing for me as, contrary to another thread somewhere, it doesn't uncentre you

Chain is complete rubbish. The mobs in EN do double the damage with no save with their chain, the mobs in EE will kill anyone silly enough to stay in range unless they have insane HP (or Dodge - I think).

I cant imagine a time you arent decreasing your DPS - except maybe if someone else has grabbed aggro on a huge pack and you are adding a little bit of damage to each - while the rest of the party kill them.

In terms of player damage vs mob damage, I cant think of any effect where the mobs are so much better at it than the players.

[Qhualor]

im leveling my first Shadar-kai and since I don't know much about them in D&D, I decided to look them up. what I found conflicted with a lot of what we have in DDO http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Shadar-Kai_(3.5e_Race)

usually they are better at trying to keep races and classes pretty close to D&D 3.5 version, but there is just too much of a difference from what im reading. I wonder if it has anything to do with starting out in Eberron and at level 15, but that doesn't make sense either. the starting level is an option and where you start out shouldn't affect the race abilities and what is granted to them. maybe im looking at the wrong source for info?

[fmalfeas]

im leveling my first Shadar-kai and since I don't know much about them in D&D, I decided to look them up. what I found conflicted with a lot of what we have in DDO http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Shadar-Kai_(3.5e_Race)

usually they are better at trying to keep races and classes pretty close to D&D 3.5 version, but there is just too much of a difference from what im reading. I wonder if it has anything to do with starting out in Eberron and at level 15, but that doesn't make sense either. the starting level is an option and where you start out shouldn't affect the race abilities and what is granted to them. maybe im looking at the wrong source for info?

That's a homebrew, not anything official.

[DaSawks]

IMHO Shadar-Kai players are gimped compaired to NPC's. Think I am wrong? Go play with some Shadar-Kai Assassins in epic content. The whorling blade attack is instant death like frog in a blender. Plus, if you take a moment to time the cooldowns for NPC's you will find that it is less than 60 seconds.

[Oliphant]

As for Nothing is hidden, if it didn't need both spot and search to work I would use it as well but as is, I cant think of a way to get BOTH
high enough.

Nothing is hidden only relies on search skill (not spot) but you have to be within spot range. I went weak on spot (56 no buffs) and I maxed search (83 no buffs). With my various skill boosts in quest (90+ search), NiH almost always works for me. I even had relatively weaker spot earlier in the game when my items did not boost spot (think another 20 fewer skill points in spot compared to search) but NiH always worked. The description says it requires a search check and it seems to work based only on a search check. Either way you can get it working in most quests, even ee's.

The epic feat Watcher's Eye relies on spot.

[thegreatneil]

Nothing is hidden only relies on search skill (not spot) but you have to be within spot range. I went weak on spot (56 no buffs) and I maxed search (83 no buffs). With my various skill boosts in quest (90+ search), NiH almost always works for me. I even had relatively weaker spot earlier in the game when my items did not boost spot (think another 20 fewer skill points in spot compared to search) but NiH always worked. The description says it requires a search check and it seems to work based only on a search check. Either way you can get it working in most quests, even ee's.



This is incorrect.
I have personally tested this:
A high spot, bot no search
A high search, but no spot
A high search and spot both.

[ThomasHunter]

Proof that they are human - they do the human dance!!!:cool:

[Miow]

Human is just better, that's my opinion. I like the look of mine but it's racial tree feels lacking, i might tr. The chain attack doesn't do much in harder content.

[SealedInSong]

I am a huge proponent of flavor characters--most of mine are just that.

But I can't really justify using Shadar-Kai. I've toyed around with a few builds using them and just deleted them because even on heroic content I could see that almost every other race would've done a better job.

It's sad.

Iriale suggested something good. I think we should give the devs some very nuanced feedback involving LIGHT coding changes to improve Shadar-Kai.

The heavier code changes are really done at their whim and in my observation have nothing to do with player input. Light changes have a much better chance of implementation.


It's a simple matter of the other iconics having unintended synergies as something else besides their default class. Shadar just aren't better at anything they should be better at. And the main thing that could have made them very interesting (abundant step without 12 monk 17fvs etc. Is saddled with a cooldowns so long that its not fun and not worth bothering with as a selling point to make a build out of. The cost of their racials are amazing (morninglord suffers the same problem, sunburst SLA with a 26 second cd for 30ish AP? No thanks)


Well, the shadar kai have a racial tree. Better o worse, but all races have a racial tree

but, where are all shadar-kai racial feats?

See:
Dwarf:
• +2 Constitution, –2 Charisma.
• Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves may treat dwarven axe as martial weapons (meaning you class needs martial weapons to gain Dwarven axe by default, Rogues for example, do not get martial weapons by default), rather than exotic weapons.
• +4 racial bonus on balance ability checks.
• +2 racial bonus on Search checks.
• +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison.
• +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells.
• +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids.
• +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type.

Elf (and morninglord after the next update)
• +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution
• Immunity to sleep spells and effects
• +2 saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects
• +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
• Weapon Proficiency: Elves are automatically proficient with the longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow.

Halfling
• +2 Dexterity, –2 Strength
• +1 size bonus to Armor Class
• +1 size bonus on attack rolls
• +4 size bonus on Hide checks
• +2 racial bonus on Jump, Listen, and Move Silently checks.
• +1 racial bonus on all saving throws.
• +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear: This bonus stacks with the Halfling’s +1 bonus on saving throws in general.
• +1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown weapons.
• Carrying capacity is three-quarters of that of a Medium character.
• -4 intimidate penalty for each class size lower (-4 vs. normal, -8 vs. large)

Human and Purple dragon:
• +4 skill points at character creation
• +1 skill point at every level after level 1
• 1 bonus feat at level 1.

Drow:
• +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution
• Immunity to sleep spells and effects
• +2 saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects
• Spell Resistance: 10+Character Level
• +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
• Weapon Proficiency: Drow are automatically proficient with the rapiers, shortswords, and shurikens.

Warforged:
• +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma
• Immune to Sleep, Hold Person, Energy Drained, Nauseated, Exhausted, and Paralyzed effects.
• Immune to ability score damage from Natural Poisons, and Natural Diseases but are vulnerable to those that effect wood or metal.
• Warforged gain a +10 racial bonus to saving throws against Magical Poisons and Magical Diseases and do not fail saving throws against them on a roll of a natural 1 (this makes you immune to Magical Poisons and Magical Diseases with a DC of less than 11+your Fortitude save). If you transform into a different type of creature, you will lose these benefits until you return to your Warforged form.
• Immunity to spells targeting a humanoid.
• A Warforged can remain underwater indefinitely (no oxygen bar displayed).
• A Warforged's Composite Plating provides 5% arcane spell failure chance. This plating is not considered natural armor, and it takes the place of body armor. Because of this, the Warforged is prohibited from wearing other kinds of armor, regardless of its class proficiencies. It can still wield shields and other enhancing items such as helmets, boots, trinkets, and jewelry. Feats taken at character creation can upgrade this plating and its type, changing it to either light or heavy armor. See also Mithral Body, Adamantine Body.
• The ability to wear a docent in the slot which other characters use for armor. Magical docents usually provide an enchantment bonus to armor class, and may have other magical enhancements. They also have a cosmetic effect on appearance.
• A Warforged's plating also grants it a special feat which provides a stacking +25% Fortification. When the Warforged is the target of a sneak attack or critical hit, there is a 25% chance for the attack to be negated and the damage to be rolled normally. This effect stacks with Fortification.
• Divine healing spells and potions restore only half as many hit points as normal for a Warforged (this can be increased up to 80% effectiveness with the addition of the Healer's Friend racial enhancement). A warforged's hit points can be restored normally through arcane repair spells and potions, as well as the Lay on hands Paladin ability or the Divine healing cleric enha
Bladeforged has warforged traits and additional traits

Halfelf
• Dilettante feat at level 1.
• +1 racial bonus to Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
• Naturally immune to magical sleep effects.
• +2 racial bonus to Diplomacy, and also gain an additional check for each use of Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate on a separate cooldown timer.
(of course dilettante feat is garbage without a cheap improvement for enhancements, but they have racial traits)

But Shadar-kai has:
• +2 Dexterity
• -2 Charisma

??? it's a joke. They don't have racial traits. Morninglords don't have racial traits now, but devs will fix in the next update. Shadar-kai won't obtain a fix.

please, bug report. Our complains and bug reports have got a fix for morninglords. But shadar-kai need a fix too.

[stoerm]

I'm considering purchasing Shadar-Kai. Without any experience the enhancement tree looks worse than for humans. No healing amp etc. and now it turns out they don't get a 2nd feat at level one. Doesn't look very appealing.

Having now played a Shadar-Kai from 15 to 28, I can say Shadow Jaunt alone makes it a worthwhile race. Dodge bonus, sneak attack and 1% past life bonus to dodge are just gravy. Going Shadar-Kai again!

[Oxarhamar]

Couldn't say gimped or not

They play well as a Mechanic/Artificer build though a can be bit squishie.

Great example: every has been saying the Batistas in Storm the Beaches are tough and it's true but' my Shadarkai Mech/Arti eat them for breakfast on EE by staying above them letting the melee and casters get the trash and just dumping a hail of bolts down on them.

[Purkilius]

Face it people, the game is unbalanced. It's driven by the CoD Head Shot players that make toons like the Moncher and Shiradi Casters, and the devs response is to make quests where the mobs have stupidly high HP and saves which is killing the game for pure classes.

You got it wrong it is the other way around...

[Maelodic]

I posted this in another thread, but I think I post it here:


I ended up going with a Shadar-Kai pure Rogue because of Shadow Jaunt. Shadow Jaunt is so ridiculously core to my playstyle now that any pure Rogue I play in the future will likely have to be Shadar-Kai, but I'll elaborate on that more a bit later.

Assassinate is obviously core to the playstyle- I solo a lot and the ability to stay in stealth is the greatest boon to a solo stealther. Mobs often gather in groups of two and taking them both out with assassinate is a skill very easily mastered- even if they don't come in pairs, assassinating from behind them yields the same result with no detection, while skipping the mobs entirely is also very easy.
You generally want to clear out mobs if it's not inconvenient so you can create a place to hide if needed. Skipping encounters is fine too as long as you are always thinking of safety nets. Playing a solo Rogue in DDO is by far the most satisfying sneak experience I've ever seen, and the amount of things you have to manage is absolutely perfect. It makes it feel more like a craft or art than anything else.

None of my Rogue experience could be possible without Shadow Jaunt specifically, and to a lesser extent, whirling chain and gloom stalker. A Shadar-Kai Rogue is exceptionally more powerful within my playstyle and here is why-

Shadow Jaunt is a fantastic tool for skipping encounters or getting behind groups- only rivaled by a similarly sneaky ninja who has abundant step and (permanent) shadow fade with the right enhancements. The edge that an assassin has over a ninja is that the assassin's insta-kill keeps you stealthed- quivering palm does not. Shadow Jaunt also is the ultimate disengage. Unless a mob has true seeing, you'll be out of there immediately and they're more than likely not going to be able to find you, giving you another shot at what you failed previously.

Whirling Chain is the ultimate hail mary. Popping Uncanny Dodge along with Whirling Chain will save your life when you get caught. And you do occasionally get caught- and caught without Shadow Jaunt. Uncanny Dodge turns you into a dodge tank during it's duration, and Whirling Chain provides you with more tanking ability as well as a great amount of sustained AoE damage to burst down the group you've gathered by being caught. You still have casters and archers to take care of, but you can now move around to do this and won't be followed by a thousand melee mobs.

The Ranger as well as the Monk both have spammable powerful tools of making a mob susceptible to sneak attacks. I've never seen a failed unbalancing strike, even though it does have a save, and ranger's have exposing strike, which is a no-save "hey, you're going to be SA'd to death now" ability. Rogues have the daggers as well as bluff- but these aren't nearly as reliable. This is why Gloom Stalker is great- regardless of whether or not the mob sees you, any attack out of stealth makes them vulnerable to sneak attacks. This has no save, and works on bosses. Going in and out of stealth to trigger this is faster than throwing a dagger or a bluff attempt- rendering the other options useless in a 1v1 situation as they both have saves, and this also triggers on assassinate.

My assassin is my only character than can solo elite Running With Devils at level 16- none of my characters have stunning gear, assassin included, but being able to get through that quest without a horrible and painful death from the Glale's, stalkers, and Wisams is a huge accomplishment for me since every one of my characters have generic gear, and is on their first life.

If Shadar-Kai Rogues did not exist, a Monk would be my choice for sure- but because they do and have an answer for a good amount of the Monk's advantage, an answer for the Ranger's advantage entirely- Whirling Chain, and considerably more sneak attack damage-a Shadar-Kai assassin is the only assassin for me.


I've built Shadar-Kai's just for an abundant step like ability. I'm pretty addicted to it and it usually isn't worth going into Exalted Angel for.
I couldn't imagine building an assassinate based Rogue without Shadar Kai as well- Gloom Stalker is such a ridiculously powerful ability for assassinate- you don't have to worry about agro with Gloom Stalker and just get free assassinates off or free tons-of-sneak-attack on bosses.

The chain is great in heroics or everything except EEs for anything with DR- it bypasses absolutely all DR.

But really, Shadar-Kai is all Gloom Stalker and Shadow Jaunt. These are amazing abilities and if you're playing a pure Rogue, should be heavily considered especially if you want to stealth-zerg quests or have an easy time assassinating.

Shadow Jaunt's 60 second cooldown IS atrocious- but the upgraded 30 second cooldown isn't really that bad to work with.

[cronusdeathspell]

I have to agree, except in my case, I find Gloom Stalker to be the main reason I love the race.

All sneak attack, all the time?

Thank you Sir may I have another!

[eachna_gislin]

Originally Posted by Relem
Face it people, the game is unbalanced. It's driven by the CoD Head Shot players that make toons like the Moncher and Shiradi Casters, and the devs response is to make quests where the mobs have stupidly high HP and saves which is killing the game for pure classes.


You got it wrong it is the other way around...

What is wrong about that post? Are you saying that multiclass builds aren't significantly more powerful than pure class builds? Or that mobs don't have stupidly high hit points and saves? Or that the game isn't imbalanced?

[LuKaSu]

Originally Posted by Relem
Face it people, the game is unbalanced. It's driven by the CoD Head Shot players that make toons like the Moncher and Shiradi Casters, and the devs response is to make quests where the mobs have stupidly high HP and saves which is killing the game for pure classes.



What is wrong about that post? Are you saying that multiclass builds aren't significantly more powerful than pure class builds? Or that mobs don't have stupidly high hit points and saves? Or that the game isn't imbalanced?

Pretty sure he means that the players built their monkchers and shiradi casters in response to the content, instead of the other way around.

[Zentrap]

I have 3 Shadar's, but my fav is a custom pure build with no splash. I had to adapt my play style for the particulars of them. The custom is L16 banking xp. I'm having allot of fun with this toon.

My fav. part is my UMD, so I can use scrolls and wands. I can solo this toon quite well by pumping UMD for self-heals and such. One change in tactics I use, is to get the baddies to cluster and then I whip the bejeezus out of them :D

With the UMD I use Invisible scrolls. If you use the chain whip while invissible it doesn't break the invis. The cool down is a little too long, but I can see why. The chain whip can be very effective. I pair this with the ability to sneak. I'm pleased I can jump now without breaking the sneak. I'm also rolling with Displacement and Blur scrolls.

On a side note, I'm using allot of augments. Especially the yellows for the elemental resists. I have an awesome shortbow and light repeater I put Festival Icy Burst on that are a blast. I have a nice set of rapiers and I'm also dual wielding Envenomed blades depending on the baddies and their DRs.

I'm using a Skullduggary belt (slotted Gift of Master in it), Parasitic Breast Plate with Symbiot, and Shade's Hood. I have a varitety of rings I'm using depending on the situation.

The only place I've had trouble so far is Heroic Elite dragons in ToR. Otherwise GH has been fun. I also did Overgrowth and Murder by Night with just a hire and I was way under level and completed both. Good times.

I'm starting to plan for epics, but I'm having too much fun at L16 to want to level right now. In my opinion they are not gimp. I may or may not change my opinion once I go epic.

0-[====>Shadar-Kai Edit<====]-0

I upgraded the Parasitic Breastplate with Will Save and I forgot to mention that.


I just like my abundant step every 30 seconds that can save your ass... Else yes the tree is weak.

[tapster]

Just give them the free Human feat already and make them a desirable race for anyone who either:-

Splashes rogue or
Like the look or
Is feat starved or
Doesn't plan to spend any AP's on race

Simple

[Violith]

Just give them the free Human feat already and make them a desirable race for anyone who either:-

Splashes rogue or
Like the look or
Is feat starved or
Doesn't plan to spend any AP's on race

Simple


well devs already said they arent humans, even though they are considered humans for gear options.

since their chain was the real marketed reason for getting them, it should do what the mobs can do, in heroics it is ok but do to mob hp its not all that great either from 16+ aside from the whirling chain.
*add their sneak attack to the chain (both versions)
*Vicious Chain should be 1 ap, and slashing chain should either be 1 ap or the dmg should be per level.
*have the Whirling Chain last indefinately until they move just like the mobs chains. abit more prr wouldnt be bad either.

[Banker]

I like my Shadar-Kai type people!

Shadar-kai
STR 8 to 14 = 1, 15/16=2 17/18=3
DEX 10 to 16 = 1, 17/18=2 19/20=3(Max)
CON 8 to 14 = 1, 15/16=2 17/18=3
INT 8 to 14 = 1, 15/16=2 17/18=3
WIS 8 to 14 = 1, 15/16=2 17/18=3
CHA 6 to 13 = 1, 13/14=2 15/16=3(Max)


Suckie point spread but I rolled quite a few of them.

"SneakySlime" I think his name is lol

He will be a 10 Rogue/8 Wizard/2 Fighter type person.
LevelUp: 1 level rogue (given) then 2 Fighter, then 8 Wizard and 4 more Rogue.

Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Power Attack, Cleave, Greater Cleave, mental toughness, extend spell(?) at current level. Next feat will be Combat Expertise and then Whirlwind Attack!!!

Can you say: "Cleave" ( +1[W] damage) and then "Eldritch Strike" (+1[W] damage) then "Greater Cleave" (+2[W] damage) and then "Eldritch Tempest" (+2[W] damage to all nearby enemies and knocking them prone for 1 second) and then "Whirlwind Attack" (+4[W] damage)? That's +10[W] damage in a few seconds!

My problem is that "I can't get the timing" just right at the moment since I haven't had a lot of time and 'he' doesn't have whirlwind atm either lol :) But with those first 4 it's pretty tough as it is for the mobs! Trying to use AutoAttack and clicking on all that didn't work for me as I thought it wouldn't; as it didn't work in the past either. OH! Switching to Light Pick's really helps!

Imagine this: "+150 Damage with a skull icon" looks sweeter than grandma's Sweet Iced Tea! LOL OH! I forgot - Weapon Finesse too!

I still like "Exploiters" (Ranger/Monk/Rogue) because I found that by remaining Centered with weapons is a good thing - especially since it gives you another 'attack' option! UMD is GOOD! :)

Thinking about it - I've been rolling so many Icon's this maybe on a BladeForged (Fighter/Eldritch Knight), or maybe the PDK (Fighter/Eldritch Knight)...

[tapster]

Slightly off piste but has anyone tested to see if melee power affects any of the chain attacks?

[Sebastrd]

Slightly off piste but has anyone tested to see if melee power affects any of the chain attacks?

I'd bring that up on the lama forums. It'd certainly get me to give them a second look.

[Oliphant]

I wish the chain would scale with character level

[SealedInSong]

Lower the cost of the chain line.

Lower it.

Lower it all.

+Melee power benefits.

In epic levels, the damage should scale up considerably. Look at how much damage epic shadar-kai enemies do with their chains even on Epic Normal. We should do at least that damage because we're players, not 1/10 of it as we do now.

[Oxarhamar]

I found it quite a good base for Artifcer hybrid

The lesser fear duration allowed me to ignore proctecting myself from fear (I know GH but, just one less buff annoyance)

Lots more sneak attack dice

I liked the auto searchie thingy bobby

I did not use the chain not once in 3 lives, did not even put 1 AP in it.

[tapster]

Now U23 is live can anyone comment on the chains attacks and if they're affected by melee power?

[redoubt]

The chain is weak. Not worth taking.

The sneak attack and super jump are good.

[StormKnight]

I have looking again at the Iconic Heroes, and I just wonder why Shadar-kai are so gimped ?

they lose the extra Human feat at level 1, and they only get one ability enhancement when all other races get 2. What makes them worth taking ?

Can't see it myself atm


Clarice

Splash it with 19 monk levels , ninja spy synchronizes with its racial abilities quite well. At least that's my plan , I am just giving this a try now.

[LuKaSu]

Splash it with 19 monk levels , ninja spy synchronizes with its racial abilities quite well. At least that's my plan , I am just giving this a try now.

I put 1 Ranger level at level 15, too, to top off the trapper abilities significantly and to give him infinite arrows, bow strength, and cure wand usage also (all for a total of 2 AP). You keep just as many core enhancements with 18 monk levels, and the 1 ranger level really helps.

[Thescalybard]

I put 1 Ranger level at level 15, too, to top off the trapper abilities significantly and to give him infinite arrows, bow strength, and cure wand usage also (all for a total of 2 AP). You keep just as many core enhancements with 18 monk levels, and the 1 ranger level really helps.

I'm actually about to roll a Shadar-Kai to try for myself, and this sounds like an interesting build. Do you have an actual build for this? If so, might you have a link to it?

[FranOhmsford]

Just give them the free Human feat already and make them a desirable race for anyone who either:-

Splashes rogue or
Like the look or
Is feat starved or
Doesn't plan to spend any AP's on race

Simple

Not gonna happen unless the Devs also get off their high horse and give Shadar-Kai some PROPER Hair Styles!

Currently they're worse than H-Elves!

EDIT: About the only HALF-decent look currently is the Sinead O'Connor!

[fmalfeas]

Not gonna happen unless the Devs also get off their high horse and give Shadar-Kai some PROPER Hair Styles!

Currently they're worse than H-Elves!

EDIT: About the only HALF-decent look currently is the Sinead O'Connor!

What, Fran, you don't want to look like a 70's London punk that got super drunk and became a Rastafarian, but didn't /quite/ want to change hairstyles completely? Punker dreadlocks, you know you want them! (My Shadkai are bald too, yes.)

[DrWily]

Shadar-kai are also the only non-Warforged race that can't use hair style tonics. ***

[HuneyMunster]

Ive been leveling a Shadar-kai assassin for the past life and shadow jaunt is great for a shadowdancer. It was an ability that was missing from the destiny that a lot of people wanted when they were developed. Though I do not know why Shadow Phase shares the same cooldown as Shadow Jaunt which makes it almost useless and a waste of 2 action points. Would be better if it was replaced with an option for a 2nd int, dex or wis similar to elves. Even so, I may change my Drow assassin to a Shadar-kai, but will lose 3 int from doing so or 1 feat if I changed to human.

[Ametrine]

I don't think Shadar-kai are particularly gimp but as a purchased iconic they should be better.

what I'd give them at a minimum
1) racial bonus to hide and sneak
2) nightvision, basically they have undersun goggles built in
3) racial bonus against poison
4) racial bonus against fear
5) diehard feat

extras that would be cool
1) invisibility racial spell
2) teleport racial spell
3) ghostly essence built in, not something you have to spend points on

[kmoustakas]

I made a shadar kai mule and suddenly I'm stuck loving playing him.

The jump is the main bonus. So far I only played in gh and had little problem assasinating everything.

+1 for letting us know chain doesn't break stealth. I didn't know that, looking forward to trying it out now.

[JOTMON]

There is plenty of junk in the Shadar-kia tree.
And they don't get a bonus feat due to not being human (sorta)

From wiki: Shadar-kai Do Not receive a bonus feat at level 1 since they are Extraplanar, Outsiders from the Plane of Shadow.
I do hope that they cant be banished, but who knows.

Now there are a few gems in the tree, if you look hard.
The shadow phase and jaunt, excellent for hit and run tactics, and losing agro. (even solo)
Improved dodge.
Guile.
Gloom stalker, love this ability, as it triggers first so you can assassinate mobs even if you have agro.

Tried the chain and thought, would have been faster to have just stabbed them.

As for Nothing is hidden, if it didn't need both spot and search to work I would use it as well but as is, I cant think of a way to get BOTH
high enough.

Pro's
Phase and Jaunt are nice, .. Jaunt is like having wings or abundant step.
Pastlives for the dodge is a nice perk.
not bad effects for gile/gloom except for point cost to get to them.

Con's
Tier 1 stuff is mostly useless, wasted points.
Improved dodge for the 1,2,3% is in tier 2 and requires dodge as a prerequisite ... weak compared to Monk's Tier1 that gives Acrobatic: +1/+2/+3 Balance, Jump, and Tumble. +1%/+2%/+3% Dodge. with no prerequisites.
Screwed on 2nd stat that all the other racial enhancements give.
Chain I found worthless, slow, comparatively low damage, nowhere near as powerful as the mob version.
Nothing is Hidden is too high up the tree and expensive. 15 to get there and another 6 to tier it up.

For TR lives Shadar-kai is decent, don't see myself taking this as an endgame life choice. The stuff I want is too high up the tree cost wise vs useful stuff in other tree's.

[tapster]

It's time for my necrotastic annual Shadar-Kai plea...

Please scale the T1 spiked chain attach to melee power

Pretty please with sugar on top.

[Saekee]

It's time for my necrotastic annual Shadar-Kai plea...

Please scale the T1 spiked chain attach to melee power

Pretty please with sugar on top.

does the chain attack break shadowwalk? (you can scroll it)

[Livmo]

It's time for my necrotastic annual Shadar-Kai plea...

Please scale the T1 spiked chain attach to melee power

Pretty please with sugar on top.

I want this too!

I hate having to switch out the AP at later epic levels. It's always sad when I have to drop the chain.

[Livmo]

does the chain attack break shadowwalk? (you can scroll it)

The chain whip does not break Shadowalk and Invis.

That is one of the reasons its sad for me to out grow the whip because it doesnt scale into epics. Totally a blast at heroics and early epics. I've usually swapped out by 23. It would be great if it scaled in some way. It's sorta costly for an item to outgrow. At least the plat cost isint bad to reset the AP and spend elsewheres.

[Saekee]

The chain whip does not break Shadowalk and Invis.

That is one of the reasons its sad for me to out grow the whip because it doesnt scale into epics. Totally a blast at heroics and early epics. I've usually swapped out by 23. It would be great if it scaled in some way. It's sorta costly for an item to outgrow. At least the plat cost isint bad to reset the AP and spend elsewheres.

thx Livmo!

Even if the chain does little damage, I assume it still procs sneak dmg? This will make a great addition to Weaving in the Fade

[Marshal_Lannes]

Bottom line is the chain attack should function like it does for NPCs on EE, which is, lethal.

[Starla70]

My biggest issue with the Shadar-kai, is why is the pc version so much weaker then the mob. They hit far harder with their chain, they have almost no cool down, and they seem to be immune to so much. Why the huge difference? Yeah, yeah I know, "But the game is too easy!" Other than that over played excuse, why is there such a huge difference?

[Livmo]

thx Livmo!

Even if the chain does little damage, I assume it still procs sneak dmg? This will make a great addition to Weaving in the Fade

I haven't been watching for that, but do know you still get the little extra damage from:


Whirling Chain: Perform a 20 seconds long chain attack that deals constant damage to foes in the area around you and increases your defense against incoming attacks with 10 Physical Resistance while active.
Every 4 to 5 seconds that you continue to whirl your chain, you deal an extra burst of damage to those in the area. The amount of this extra damage increases over time up to 10d10 + 60 damage.


I'm running a 2 rouge and 18 wizzy ATM. Just got to 20 on that toon. I'm still using the whip for now. I primarily cast invis and sometimes sneak in and whip the mob and then unleash majical death on anything still standing :)

I don't have a recent screenie of this toon, but here is one form L18. I'm still trapping well at L20.

http://i.imgur.com/3kH5rbJ.jpg

[tapster]

It's time for my necrotastic annual Shadar-Kai plea...

Please scale the T1 spiked chain attach to melee power

Pretty please with sugar on top.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/524638-First-Look-Shadar-Kai-Adjustments

At last I can dust off my favourite race...(now where did I put my +1 Heart...hmm)