[New and advanced Player] Enchantment Wizard 17 / Rogue 2 / Druid 1

[Lanhelin]

Introducing the most versatile Enchantment Wizard I know of:

Race: Half-Elf
with Cleric Dilettante to scroll-cast Heal and Raise spells. (note that this is very expensive, I'd recommend to do it on 2nd or further past life)

I didn't distribute any Skill points or Enhancement AP in the char planner, all u need to know is: reserve 4 pts per level-up for Search and Disable Device, try to get Improved Dilettante III (17 pt. Helf racial), Primary Spellschool II (32 pt. Archmage) and Shroud of the Vampire (11 pt. Pale Master), the rest is up to your choice. If you choose another race the Wiz Enhancements remain the same, the direction should be clear.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
(2 Rogue \ 17 Wizard \ 1 Druid)
Hit Points: 208
Spell Points: 1413
BAB: 9\9\14
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 16
Will: 17

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 10 15
Dexterity 8 13
Constitution 14 19
Intelligence 18 26
Wisdom 16 21
Charisma 8 13

Tomes Used
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance -1 1
Bluff -1 1
Concentration 2 4
Diplomacy -1 1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 1
Heal 3 5
Hide -1 1
Intimidate -1 1
Jump 0 2
Listen 3 5
Move Silently -1 1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 4 8
Search 4 8
Spellcraft 4 8
Spot 3 5
Swim 0 2
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard


Level 2 (Druid)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Enlarge Spell
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes


Level 4 (Wizard)


Level 5 (Wizard)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 7 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell


Level 8 (Wizard)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Initiate


Level 13 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 16 (Wizard)


Level 17 (Wizard)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Wizard)




1 Level of Druid is very nice and practical because of the Charm Animal spell (and the only reason why to take it, besides one additional lever-puller aka wolf companion). Charm Monster doesn't work on normal Animals and Vermin (bug or feature - we don't know exactly), that's why the one Druid Level. There are plenty of nasty dogs, lions and spiders and so on, in various quests from 1 to 20 you have to deal with. You don't need to raise Wisdom any further, though the DC will remain in the mid-to-end-Twenties, it's enough for Animals and Vermin, at least on heroic elite, pretty likely on epic hard too. EE - there's the ward against enchantment :/

As the last Wizard bonus feat either take Mental Toughness as I did or Maximize as I thought about. If you have PL's or better items than me, then take Maximize. But it's not necessary to do more damage, especially when you're grouping. More SP = more CC. And CC is what this build is all about.


If u want to follow my progress with this build or post your own experiences, take a look at this thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/427478-Wizard-Some-thoughts-about-the-ultimate-Enchanter).

[Failedlegend]

your charm animal will be cast as a Lvl 1 druid it won't work on anything past the first couple levels

[Lanhelin]

your charm animal will be cast as a Lvl 1 druid it won't work on anything past the first couple levels

No, it works even close to 20 (level 18 atm, eg. when I was at Level 17 in the Storm Horns I could charm the Griffons, Mountain Lions and Owlbears there easily with the Druid Spell; it also works in quests on hE difficulty; about epic I'll report soon), because Animals and Vermin have very low Will saves. That's why the unmeta'ed Sonic Blast dazes them pretty often too.

Edit: screen for nonbelievers, Charm Animal is enlarged and has DC 23:

http://s3.mmoguildsites.com/s3/gallery_images/659947/original.jpg?1387923894

The charm doesn't last that long though, but it's ok, because Dismiss Charm doesn't work on Animals or Vermin (but it should, it's a bug).


Edit 2: Did the first few epic quests (just en) and at least at en the annoying packs of Spiders in Battle for Eveningstar final fight fought on our side^^ DC is now 28 (shrouded and a few points in Fatesinger).

[Lanhelin]

Small Update:

The cr 22 Wolves in the Tharashk Arena en I could charm with the T1 spell (DC 29 atm).

I did Bargain of Blood on eh solo, no Animals there and due to the Epic Ward the charms lasted only about 8 to 12 seconds, still enough to gather widespread groups, but nevertheless quite disappointing for this playstyle. The real fun with this build I have on en difficulty only. I guess there is not much difference between eh and ee regarding the Epic Ward (?), so most of the time I charm one mob, all the others run to it, I cast dancing ball/mass hold, those who save I make dancing or being holded with the sla's again, then either I wait until my hire beats them down or my prismatic spray hits them with one of the two death beams. Ok, viable but a bit monotonous.

The Epic Ward is ok, but there should be a difference between eh and ee: either with effectiveness halfed on epic hard or a reduced effectiveness per every past life a player has, eg. -5% effectiveness per past life on epic hard, ee won't be affected.

[voodoogroves]

Are rogue skills really important to you? And evasion, of course?

Have you considered replacing that with Bard 2 for Marigold Crown?

If you really wanted to go this route I'd consider Morninglord and LR out the cleric level.

[Lanhelin]

Yes, trap skills are important to me (at least on Wayfinder I found it better to do it on my own instead of to wait hours or even days to find a trapper in my levelrange willing to team up). And Evasion of course. DC so far has not been an issue (except in the one quest in House J with all the Blackbone Skeletons), it was more about Spell Pen in early Levels. Maybe on another, higher populated Server Bard 2 or what I originally wanted to do, Druid 3 or even Druid 1 only is more viable.

I didn't think about Morninglord, because this is not my final life, but for a final life or no TR toon or only epic TR Morninglord would certainly be an option.

[the_laughing_god]

Are rogue skills really important to you? And evasion, of course?

Have you considered replacing that with Bard 2 for Marigold Crown?

If you really wanted to go this route I'd consider Morninglord and LR out the cleric level.

Why Morninglord?

[EllisDee37]

Pretty sure Dominate Monster works on animals. I know I use it all the time in Sunset Ritual to charm the regular wolves. (Not the werewolves.)

[EllisDee37]

Why Morninglord?It gets all the wizard benefits of drow and elf but none of the drawbacks.

[Lanhelin]

Pretty sure Dominate Monster works on animals. I know I use it all the time in Sunset Ritual to charm the regular wolves. (Not the werewolves.)

I didn't test this and cannot do so atm, but Dominate Monster is a T9 spell (which with the build in my first post I got at CL 20). So even if it works on Animals too, it's pretty late to get it and most of the situations where I was happy to have the Druid spell, happened (much) earlier.

Also SP-wise I'd prefer the Druid spell (sp cost with efficient enlarge: 16) over the Wiz spell (sp cost with efficient enlarge: 56), although a dominated monster would follow me. Furthermore, in this life I leveled other EDs than Magister, the spell DC would have been raised much more if I had switched to it - but at least on epic Normal it was sufficient without Mag.

[EllisDee37]

in this life I leveled other EDs than Magister, the spell DC would have been raised much more if I had switched to it - but at least on epic Normal it was sufficient without Mag.Regardless of destiny it'll still be 20 points lower than dominate monster, which should get into the 50s compared to what looks like 30s for Charm Animal.

[Lanhelin]

Regardless of destiny it'll still be 20 points lower than dominate monster, which should get into the 50s compared to what looks like 30s for Charm Animal.

Yes, but high DC is not needed as shown above, at least not on eN. On eH and eE all of the mobs have the Epic Ward anyway. On these difficulties and because of the Ward I'd rather just dance them.

[EllisDee37]

To clarify, will this wizard use undead form?

[Lanhelin]

As already stated in the first post I'd recommend to put at least 11 points into PM to get the Vampire Shroud for the +2 DC.

[EllisDee37]

As already stated in the first post I'd recommend to put at least 11 points into PM to get the Vampire Shroud for the +2 DC.I wouldn't want to take Vampire Form without improved shrouding. Priestesses (and pretty much any divine mob) would own you, possibly even on EN.

My opinion is that an EN-only charm animal ability isn't worth the +4 int you sacrifice by not getting lich form.

[Iriale]

My opinion is that an EN-only charm animal ability isn't worth the +4 int you sacrifice by not getting lich form.
+1.

EN is easy too, you don't need charm animals.

wiz 18/rog 2 is better build.

17 APs in dilettante for a wizard is a big waste.

[Theolin]

cleric dilly when you have Rogue for UMD is a waste

[Lanhelin]

I wouldn't want to take Vampire Form without improved shrouding. Priestesses (and pretty much any divine mob) would own you, possibly even on EN.

My opinion is that an EN-only charm animal ability isn't worth the +4 int you sacrifice by not getting lich form.

Regarding "being owned" by divine mob encounters - in this case I'd recommend to unshroud, it's not a big problem.


Going deep Pale Master is not the best choice regarding Enchantment, because:

AM: +2 Int Capstone, +2 Int tree, +2 DC primary spellschool I and II = +4 DC

PM: +2 Int Capstone, +2 Int tree, +2 Int Improved Shrouding, +2 Int Lich = +4 DC


In case of my build the capstone is not available, but combining AM Primary Spellschool I,II + Int Enhancements + PM Int Enhancements + Vampire Shroud would result in +6 DC to Enchantment spells, while Improved Shrouding + Lich + AM Int + Spellschool I + PM Int would grant +5 DC. You now can argue that one more or less DC won't do anything notable, but it's still one more or less.

My opinion is, that if you focus on Enchantment regarding +DC it's better to go deep Archmage instead of Pale Master but combine it with Vampire Shroud and to have the Charm Animal spell available during leveling process and beyond.

[Lanhelin]

17 APs in dilettante for a wizard is a big waste.

For a wizard this could be true. For this wizard it's not a waste.


cleric dilly when you have Rogue for UMD is a waste

No, it's not, because you have more skill points left for other useful ones.

[EllisDee37]

Regarding "being owned" by divine mob encounters - in this case I'd recommend to unshroud, it's not a big problem.That's 50 SP a pop, with a 30 second cooldown, and there are lots and lots of divine epic mobs. Gianthold and MotU are both crawling with them, almost to the point where you may as well not even go into form at all. That's a -2 DC hit in that content, effectively.

Better (IMO) to split the difference in all content and be able to stay in form regardless.



In case of my build the capstone is not available, but combining AM Primary Spellschool I,II + Int Enhancements + PM Int Enhancements + Vampire Shroud would result in +6 DC to Enchantment spells, while Improved Shrouding + Lich + AM Int + Spellschool I + PM Int would grant +5 DC. You now can argue that one more or less DC won't do anything notable, but it's still one more or less.

My opinion is, that if you focus on Enchantment regarding +DC it's better to go deep Archmage instead of Pale Master but combine it with Vampire Shroud and to have the Charm Animal spell available during leveling process and beyond.If you focus on enchantment, and stay out of priestess/divine mob content, then agreed. I have trouble wrapping my head around maxing enchantment DC to the detriment of the other schools, though. Your evocation, necromancy and conjuration DCs will take a big hit; much bigger than the +1 enchantment DC you gain.

[Lanhelin]

That's 50 SP a pop, with a 30 second cooldown, and there are lots and lots of divine epic mobs. Gianthold and MotU are both crawling with them, almost to the point where you may as well not even go into form at all. That's a -2 DC hit in that content, effectively.

Better (IMO) to split the difference in all content and be able to stay in form regardless.

Unshrouding costs no SP. If it really is that dangerous, I guess even a PM Lich would unshroud, which would be a -2 DC too. But usually when I get the aggro of all (divine) mobs, it's a hint that I did something wrong and that's time to try another tactic.



If you focus on enchantment, and stay out of priestess/divine mob content, then agreed. I have trouble wrapping my head around maxing enchantment DC to the detriment of the other schools, though. Your evocation, necromancy and conjuration DCs will take a big hit; much bigger than the +1 enchantment DC you gain.

Lol, I never feared divine mobs in the past. You forgot Illusion, Transmutation and Abjuration. But thank you for your agreement, because it's Enchantment this build is all about. I never alleged anything else, as the thread title already says. I also never pretended this build to be an EE soloing one. If you have trouble with this build in theory - because I highly doubt you ever played it - it's ok *shrug*

[EllisDee37]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a typical 18/2 wizard/rogue is WAY overpowered in terms of enchantment when running EN. You say you get 1 DC higher, but my reply is that your +1 DC will have no effect. Mobs will have to roll a 20 to save regardless. Keeping in mind we're only talking about EN.

In the meantime, you sacrifice multiple DCs in necromancy, which is odd for a pale master. (I count 4 DC lost.) Unlike enchantment, a standard wizard/rogue pale master build won't be auto-succeeding with necromancy, and your build may actually struggle with it.

The end result is that the druid level will make this character dependent on the rest of the party while not gaining anything: EN enchantment is still the same effect (mob only saves on a 20) and all the rest of your DCs suffer.

As far as "if it's so dangerous you'd drop out of lich too", no, because vampires take significantly more damage from light than liches do.

[Lanhelin]

This build is not a Pale Master build, it just takes advantage of the Vampire shroud and the two Int Enhancements. When I unshroud and shroud again it costs 50 SP, but dominating an Animal instead of charming it also costs 50 SP - so there seems to be no difference regarding SP cost. Some significant loss here or there will occur in every build I guess. I also never felt weak or dependent or had any similar problems as you're assuming on EN. I did not use any other Necromancy spells than the heightened Command and the Aura for self healing, if it ever was necessary.

I'm also not sure what you counted, because Lich + Improved Shrouding = 4 Int = 2 DC (3 DC Necro). So a loss of 2 DC to the other schools - but if you do not focus on Evocation or Illusion or Necromancy and also do not take the related feats, even shrouded in Lich you will have lower DCs than a Wizard who is specialized in this school and has taken the feats. Eg. I often used the prismatic spells which are Evocation ones. Though I did not specialize in Evocation I could instakill a lot of trash mobs. Preferably the divine ones^^

[EllisDee37]

I'm also not sure what you counted, because Lich + Improved Shrouding = 4 Int = 2 DC (3 DC Necro).I counted the +1 necro DC from tier 5 PM tree.

Finger of Death, Wail, and Necrotic Ray are all very strong necromancy spells. Necrotic Ray in particular is very strong for EN, though it is a fort save necromancy spell so you might get a lot of saves.

[Lanhelin]

I counted the +1 necro DC from tier 5 PM tree.

Ah this one, ok. It's like the AM secondary spell mastery which I always forget about too. So for a Wizard who often casts Necro spells or even specializes in Necromancy, going deep PM really would be the better choice. I didn't do so and also had no problems on EN. In fact I preferred the prismatic spells over the necromancy ones because their two instakill beams ignore death immunity.