Is this game growing as far as playerbase goes?

[Zammied]

Seems to have about the same amount of people as when MOTUD came out..

I know this game has a loyal playerbase, ive been here since 2005, but in you opinion has it grown?

[sirgog]

The last stats I saw indicated significant drops in numbers once Shadowfell was announced, then a short rise after it went live, and now back to the bleeding away of people.

Khyber LFMs and all channels I am in are down whenever I log on. It's hard to tell whether the once popular "/joinchannel trades" fell from hundreds to dozens because of player attrition, or because the channel has become toxic. I think the latter is the bigger factor.

[Coyopa]

No. I know some people who have left. I know others that appear to have left as I have not seen them in game in quite a while (they are on my friends list). I still have some friends in game. I don't see new players around that often, but I did come across a few back last week - but fewer than the number of people I know who have left. I just miss my friends.

[Zammied]

The last stats I saw indicated significant drops in numbers once Shadowfell was announced, then a short rise after it went live, and now back to the bleeding away of people.

Khyber LFMs and all channels I am in are down whenever I log on. It's hard to tell whether the once popular "/joinchannel trades" fell from hundreds to dozens because of player attrition, or because the channel has become toxic. I think the latter is the bigger factor.

Ah thats depressing.. i always feel like the new offers in the store are a last ditch effort for money

[XiaNYdE]

I think a lot have stopped playing but not given up completely, more of a hiatus until some semblance of an end-game shows it's head. the promise of no expansions next year and a definite cap, more raids, named loot improvements etc.. should help to improve things somewhat. Fingers crossed anyways :D

[cdr]

The DDOracle stats show a steadily declining playerbase, with minor upticks when updates are released that quickly reverse themselves.

[Fallout_Zero]

Seems to have about the same amount of people as when MOTUD came out..

I know this game has a loyal playerbase, ive been here since 2005, but in you opinion has it grown?

You have it the other way around. How do you stop the bleeding.

[Postumus]

The DDOracle stats show a steadily declining playerbase, with minor upticks when updates are released that quickly reverse themselves.


Actually the DDOracle graphs everyone likes to trot out as 'proof' show that the number of logins of logins pre-MOTU vs the number of logins now are only down by a few thousand (something like 16k avg vs 13k avg).


Doombois like to make a big deal about the colossal drop off from MOTU's highest peak and now, but that's a pretty short-sighted, and very inaccurate way of interpreting the graphs.

And who knows how accurate those graphs even are.

[locksmith]

Dooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

[Memnir]

Personal anecdotes only: A lot of people I've known for years are no longer playing. I do see new players in the Harbor, but I rarely see them stick around long after lvl 10 or so. I pop a lot of new players I group with or talk/give advice to on my Friend List, and keep tabs on them... I'd say only one in twenty has stuck around long enough to be considered a long-time player.

This is dramatically down from two years ago when most of the players I'd keep track of stuck around for more then a year.


It's not scientific, but it's what I myself have seen. The numbers are dwindling - long-timer players are leaving and new players rarely do more then dabble a bit and leave.

[Grecan]

The first time(s) i logged in the game after about 2,5 years, i got the impression that Stormreach was pretty empty compared to back then. Seemed to me like more than 50% drop, closer to -75%. I also noticed that the vast majority of players had TR wings.
I found out that lots of the people i knew (people i had in my friends list), some of them old vets, aren't around anymore. Some have stopped playing more than a year ago, some 2-3 months ago. Some of them might be just taking a break, or playing alts i cannot track now. Some continue playing, but some of them not very frequently - at least that's my impression.
As the days went by, i thought i was seeing a larger number of players. Maybe it had to do with the time i was logging (i don't have a standard time). I started noticing more people without wings, too, but mostly in the Harbor. I started examining them, and if their description said (Adventurer) i was sure that was a newb. I joined a new guild (an old one, but one that i hadn't joined before) and i've seen them recruit lots of new players.
It's a fact that i started playing about 4 years ago, when the game went f2p, which caused a player-boom if i'm not mistaken. But in general, it seems to me that there are much fewer people playing and fewer LFMs than about 2,5 years ago, when i stopped playing.

[goodspeed]

You have it the other way around. How do you stop the bleeding.

jam a free otto's box in there?

[Teh_Ghoul]

you have it the other way around. How do you stop the bleeding.

ghostbane fixes everything

[sirgog]

I think a lot have stopped playing but not given up completely, more of a hiatus until some semblance of an end-game shows it's head. the promise of no expansions next year and a definite cap, more raids, named loot improvements etc.. should help to improve things somewhat. Fingers crossed anyways :D

Thing is, some of them will find other homes in the meantime.

If DDO were to roll back to its best days (either 20 cap prior to Update 9, or 20 cap after LOB, raid difficulty changes and Bravery Bonus IMO, but if that's not your favorite time, substitute yours in its place), many of the people still wouldn't come back because they are now hooked on other games.

[FlaviusMaximus]

Doombois...

You just coin this or has it been around? I actually had been wondering why there wasn't an opposite equivalent of "fanboi."

[Teh_Ghoul]

You just coin this or has it been around? I actually had been wondering why there wasn't an opposite equivalent of "fanboi."

It's been around for a while.

[FlaviusMaximus]

It's been around for a while.

Well good god, why isn't it being used? Are people who are less negative also less likely to use pigeon-holing, derogatory slang?

I mean, objectively, the term should probably be used about five times as often as "fanboi" in these threads.

[Jasparion]

The last stats I saw indicated significant drops in numbers once Shadowfell was announced, then a short rise after it went live, and now back to the bleeding away of people.

Khyber LFMs and all channels I am in are down whenever I log on. It's hard to tell whether the once popular "/joinchannel trades" fell from hundreds to dozens because of player attrition, or because the channel has become toxic. I think the latter is the bigger factor.

Argo I often see no LFGs up in the level range Im in. Sometimes there are zero up at all from 20 to 28. Then again, the other day I saw a Hard Shroud which was 23 to 28 only. Even money they still failed because being elitist doesnt make you elite.

When I first started playing the LFG had dozens and dozens of groups up. These days there are generally fewer than 10. Often only 5 or 6.

Though maybe the hard core players are all using their own special groups. Im on my final life of Completionist now. Maybe I should ask for an invite :)

[Schaden_freude]

Why do people seem to forget that this is an 8 year old game?

Does UO and EQ1 still have the same numbers of people playing as when they first began?

[locksmith]

[QUOTE=Jasparion;5188843]Argo I often see no LFGs up in the level range Im in. Sometimes there are zero up at all from 20 to 28. Then again, the other day I saw a Hard Shroud which was 23 to 28 only. Even money they still failed because being elitist doesnt make you elite.QUOTE]

I missed the elitist part of that?

[sirgog]

Argo I often see no LFGs up in the level range Im in. Sometimes there are zero up at all from 20 to 28. Then again, the other day I saw a Hard Shroud which was 23 to 28 only. Even money they still failed because being elitist doesnt make you elite.

When I first started playing the LFG had dozens and dozens of groups up. These days there are generally fewer than 10. Often only 5 or 6.

Though maybe the hard core players are all using their own special groups. Im on my final life of Completionist now. Maybe I should ask for an invite :)

I've also seen it be rarer that you can find a group at your level, but that doesn't necessarily indicate a falling PUG population.

Earlier in the game's history you didn't have players as divided by powerlevelling penalties as they are now. At the 16 cap you could have four groups covering all level ranges (1-4, 5-8, 9-12 and 13-16). Now it would take six groups to cover all levels at a minimum and in practice you often see ten groups of which none hit your level.

The other factor is that dungeon scaling seriously penalizes people for opening LFMs to PUGgers. Some people still PUG because they are willing to prolong grind for some social interaction, but efficiency minded players do not post LFMs now. It's hard to say how many people play that do not interact with the LFM system.

[zDragonz]

very very slowly.

reason: Every update is cluttered with bugs that are intolerable. It is becoming the norm, rather than what should be normal for a video game. We know that it will be untested and some folks in our community will take the plunge and wind up with wrecked characters! Every Update leads to this games own suicide and trust becomes less and less.

PUKE! BARF!, WHY? Stop coming hung over to work? DEVS? Or just care for once? I dunno.You have scared us to not ER! Junk product over all. Fix it.

[Gabrael]

Fix bugs, no srsly.
Fix the **** tons of bugs. Game grow when the playerbase get others to play. and I frankly can't proudly ask my friends to play this game when so many things are wrong. Great stuff still, enough to get me playing, not enough quality to make publicity for it...yet.

Why? cuz my friends aren't D&D fans and they play games will less bugs and better graphics and what not, this game has to be better than theirs if I want to get them on it. So far only my gf, one of my bro, and one friend I managed to have play the game.

Updates don't bring new player, they bring back regular casual players

[oweieie]

When I check at peak times the number of players is significantly lower than last year. In 6 months when school is out for the summer and numbers traditionally drop, the game will be a graveyard.

[morkahn82]

yeah, tons of bugs, expansions consisting of two adventure packs instead of 3 packs and a raid, game updates consisting of two quests instead of a chain, greed for money (asah, epic tr), p2w(!), all these do not improve motivation. Yesterday I bought guild wars 2 for € 24, a one-time fee for the whole game, lets see what I do get there. You vip subscripers keep the game running in the meanwhile, thank you.

[Buffyanne]

Aside from the raid scene being dead, I feel DDO is as good as it has ever been. Turbine has hit homeruns with all their recent changes. The scale back of XP on the heroic levels was a huge benefit to the game, I now find groups way more relaxed, people are far more interested in having fun and enjoying a quest chain because that chain gets them a huge chunk of XP and they don't have to mindlessly run a quest 10 times. Good loot can now potentially drop from any chest, in particular the master craft items that turn up are always fun to get. Turbine has loaded up the extra goodies for VIPs and most people that I talk to now really enjoy the VIP benefits. There is now a ED TR system so you can run quests level 20-28 if you don't want to run heroic lives. I enjoy going between heroic and epic questing, I do one for a few weeks then do the other. The enhancement pass was a huge success. There are now tons of interesting and unique and viable builds out there. The new EK tree is outstanding and opens up a whole new set of melee/caster characters.

Would I like more storage? Yes. Would I like more or updated raids? Sure. But overall I find the DDO game a much friendlier, varied world now than it was 6 years ago.

[NaturalHazard]

This game keeps going from strength to strength.

[Teh_Ghoul]

Aside from the raid scene being dead, I feel DDO is as good as it has ever been. Turbine has hit homeruns with all their recent changes. The scale back of XP on the heroic levels was a huge benefit to the game, I now find groups way more relaxed, people are far more interested in having fun and enjoying a quest chain because that chain gets them a huge chunk of XP and they don't have to mindlessly run a quest 10 times. Good loot can now potentially drop from any chest, in particular the master craft items that turn up are always fun to get. Turbine has loaded up the extra goodies for VIPs and most people that I talk to now really enjoy the VIP benefits. There is now a ED TR system so you can run quests level 20-28 if you don't want to run heroic lives. I enjoy going between heroic and epic questing, I do one for a few weeks then do the other. The enhancement pass was a huge success. There are now tons of interesting and unique and viable builds out there. The new EK tree is outstanding and opens up a whole new set of melee/caster characters.

Would I like more storage? Yes. Would I like more or updated raids? Sure. But overall I find the DDO game a much friendlier, varied world now than it was 6 years ago.

We are not playing the same game.

[relenttless]

I got a real reminder of this a couple of weeks ago when my server, Sarlona, went down. Ghalanda was up, so I thought "Why not roll a toon up there?" and I did

The moment I hit the harbour I was hit between the eyes as to how the population levels were like Sarlona was 4 years ago.

Whether this decline actually has an adverse effect? probably, but not neccessarily.

[zwiebelring]

Thing is, some of them will find other homes in the meantime.

If DDO were to roll back to its best days (either 20 cap prior to Update 9, or 20 cap after LOB, raid difficulty changes and Bravery Bonus IMO, but if that's not your favorite time, substitute yours in its place), many of the people still wouldn't come back because they are now hooked on other games.
Haven't logged in for over one week now. That stupid wall jump in Super Metroid is more challenging than epic elite :/.

[NaturalHazard]

I got a real reminder of this a couple of weeks ago when my server, Sarlona, went down. Ghalanda was up, so I thought "Why not roll a toon up there?" and I did

The moment I hit the harbour I was hit between the eyes as to how the population levels were like Sarlona was 4 years ago.

Whether this decline actually has an adverse effect? probably, but not neccessarily.

I thought the more sarlona declines the better it reflects on the games overall population?

[Buffyanne]

We are not playing the same game.

And that's fine. What makes people enjoy a game certainly varies. I just think it is easy to forget that there is a large group of mostly silent (on the forums) players that are really enjoying DDO.

[TrinityTurtle]

I actually have no idea. Perspective is a big thing on a question like this where we're not able to view the actual statistical facts about the playerbase. People who run on channels and guilds only will not notice if a horde of newbies flooded korthos for example. While someone who pugs all the time with different people would probably not notice long standing players wandering off. When I pug, I keep running into actual new players who have no idea what is going on and bombard me with questions the minute they realize I'm happy to answer them. Except the poor dude who was in our tempest spine group when I was sick as a dog and not a chatty turtle, sorry poor rogue that I wasn't up to my usual make sure everyone has a good time self. Lesson learned: Do not try to shortman spine with my friend and a pair of newbies when the offspring has giving me some form of flu.

So new players are still finding their way in. I'm not sure how, given the lack of real advertising, but somehow they are getting here. But I have no idea how the influx and outbound match up.

[Chai]

Actually the DDOracle graphs everyone likes to trot out as 'proof' show that the number of logins of logins pre-MOTU vs the number of logins now are only down by a few thousand (something like 16k avg vs 13k avg).


Doombois like to make a big deal about the colossal drop off from MOTU's highest peak and now, but that's a pretty short-sighted, and very inaccurate way of interpreting the graphs.

And who knows how accurate those graphs even are.

What evidence do you have of the contrary?

The folks youve demanded evidence from over the years have 2 websites of solid evidence over a large enough period of time which correlates to a declining population. Of course after they meet your demand for evidence youll attempt to demonize and dismiss whatever gets brought to the table. So, state your own premise and bring evidence to back it up.

Couple this with the fact that DDO is so desperate they are selling raw XP for money. How much more hilarious does it need to get before youll see the light on this?

[kned225]

And that's fine. What makes people enjoy a game certainly varies. I just think it is easy to forget that there is a large group of mostly silent (on the forums) players that are really enjoying DDO.


Absolutely true. Things seem about the same as they did before u14. Not bad considering all the new games, all the overhauling and the age of the game.

But the op asking that question here is pointless. A lot of what you get here is comically over-the-top negativity from a bunch of hopelessly addicted crybabies who, too weak to quit playing on their own, are desperate for ddo to die so they can be free of turbines evil grasp

[Welby]

New players here.

Me and 5 others have often did D&D 4.0 using maptools every week. We've recently switched over to DDO for a change of pace. All made new toons based on the PnP.

We have a blast together. I know the game is "old" now,..but I am actually surprised I see the amount of people I do see when logged in, tbh. I totally understand it if the game is dwindling. People say Lotro( which I've played for years) is dwindling too,..Helm's Deep may boost it some but it's aging. In fact,...what MMO forum isn't saying their game is dwindling? :p


We'll stick around here,..it's f2p,..I did buy a bank/inv slot,.but I dont plan to be gobbling up expansions, since we'd All have to.

I am only level 3/2 but really like it so far. Having a regular group helps alot, I imagine. But that may be said for other games too.

cheers

[Zenako]

As a real long timer I will also offer another thought. Back in the old days, all the players were both within a smaller level range of each other (as was mentioned) but we all only had a handful of zones to play in and see other characters running around. Also there were a LOT fewer quest options so the odds of filling them up was higher since when you only have 100 quests vs 300 (rough number) you were more likely to find people who "needed" them and would welcome others to play. Now players are spread out over much more content making concentrations of players and interest in quests more diffused.

I know I pug a LOT less than I used to, mainly questing with family members these days or trying to solo things. (recently did Tempest Spine solo with an at level artificier to see if I could. I remember how Fire and Ice used to sometimes cause full parties to fail, but was able to pull it off solo to my surprise.) SO I still play a lot, just the style of play has drifted away from the old styles. Solo or just family means no LFM activity either joining or posting one. Just some thoughts.

[bsquishwizzy]

Aside from the raid scene being dead, I feel DDO is as good as it has ever been. Turbine has hit homeruns with all their recent changes. The scale back of XP on the heroic levels was a huge benefit to the game, I now find groups way more relaxed, people are far more interested in having fun and enjoying a quest chain because that chain gets them a huge chunk of XP and they don't have to mindlessly run a quest 10 times. Good loot can now potentially drop from any chest, in particular the master craft items that turn up are always fun to get. Turbine has loaded up the extra goodies for VIPs and most people that I talk to now really enjoy the VIP benefits. There is now a ED TR system so you can run quests level 20-28 if you don't want to run heroic lives. I enjoy going between heroic and epic questing, I do one for a few weeks then do the other. The enhancement pass was a huge success. There are now tons of interesting and unique and viable builds out there. The new EK tree is outstanding and opens up a whole new set of melee/caster characters.

Would I like more storage? Yes. Would I like more or updated raids? Sure. But overall I find the DDO game a much friendlier, varied world now than it was 6 years ago.

Are you sure you are playing DDO?

Turbine has it “home runs” with recent changes? You talking about the Ghostbane debacle, or the fact that random loot is actually better than epic loot? Or how about the eTR blow-up?

Good loot can potentially drop from every chest? That’s if you define “good loot” as being a combination of rapid stikes, riposte, ghostbane, and/or deathblock. It’s like there are only 4 attributes in the game anymore.

And those VIP goodies? They do NOT compare to what they took away.

Wow…just wow.

[FlaviusMaximus]

Aside from the raid scene being dead, I feel DDO is as good as it has ever been. Turbine has hit homeruns with all their recent changes. The scale back of XP on the heroic levels was a huge benefit to the game, I now find groups way more relaxed, people are far more interested in having fun and enjoying a quest chain because that chain gets them a huge chunk of XP and they don't have to mindlessly run a quest 10 times. Good loot can now potentially drop from any chest, in particular the master craft items that turn up are always fun to get. Turbine has loaded up the extra goodies for VIPs and most people that I talk to now really enjoy the VIP benefits. There is now a ED TR system so you can run quests level 20-28 if you don't want to run heroic lives. I enjoy going between heroic and epic questing, I do one for a few weeks then do the other. The enhancement pass was a huge success. There are now tons of interesting and unique and viable builds out there. The new EK tree is outstanding and opens up a whole new set of melee/caster characters.

Would I like more storage? Yes. Would I like more or updated raids? Sure. But overall I find the DDO game a much friendlier, varied world now than it was 6 years ago.

Please refrain from having your own take on things, lest you risk being called a "fanboi," "kool-aid drinker," or my personal favorite, "Turbine employee in disguise."

Minority opinions are unwelcome here. There are no positives. There are only negatives. The sooner you understand that, the less forum wrath you will suffer.

[FlaviusMaximus]

...A lot of what you get here is comically over-the-top negativity from a bunch of hopelessly addicted crybabies who, too weak to quit playing on their own, are desperate for ddo to die so they can be free of turbines evil grasp

I've been thinking the same thing for quite some time but haven't found a good way to phrase it. I may just throw this brilliant quote into my signature.



Oh look! There it is.

[Ivan_Milic]

Total of 5 lfms at 5 pm gmt +1 time on thelanis.

[Welby]

I just logged in( from work) Thelanis, 1:35pm EST

26 LFG's,...only like 4 I can join though at my level. And half of which I don't have the xpac for.

[locksmith]

Omg you can't join lfms because they won't bend to meet your requirements. How dear they? DDO must be all but doomed.

[Seikojin]

Growth? I dunno. I just know that I have seen more lfms on Sarlona recently, so yes?

There are aggregates out there, but they typically are a year behind.

[axel15810]

Unfortunately playerbase is down a lot from 4-5 years ago when I started playing. It has steadily decreased it seems, but bumped up a good bit when MoTU came out. Since it has gone back down, Shadowfell didn't give much of a bump.

I think it's at a point where most of the population are dedicated vets, going foward it shouldn't go down at the rate it has in the past.

[Welby]

Omg you can't join lfms because they won't bend to meet your requirements. How dear they? DDO must be all but doomed.

Who is complaining they can't get groups?

During my normal playtime if I am not in my normal group,..it's pretty easy to get into a PUG. Although,..quality of experiences may vary of course,..

[toaftoaf]

the big K was dead last night. im sure log ins are down. maybe they should fix stuff

[IronClan]

Actually the DDOracle graphs everyone likes to trot out as 'proof' show that the number of logins of logins pre-MOTU vs the number of logins now are only down by a few thousand (something like 16k avg vs 13k avg).


Doombois like to make a big deal about the colossal drop off from MOTU's highest peak and now, but that's a pretty short-sighted, and very inaccurate way of interpreting the graphs.

And who knows how accurate those graphs even are.

Actually you're terrible at reading graphs and repeatedly saying the same wrong things, and deliberately throw around wrong numbers you pull out of. Thin air?

Since you want to compare "pre update doldrum" numbers because you think they paint a less shocking picture (Like a single axe murder crime scene photo compared to a double axe murder crime scene photo) the actual numbers are ~22k and ~13k. That is the peak shown as the spike that leads into midnight MOTU update line (follow Update 14 line up and that is midnight, (the actual update probably hit at morning maintenance, I'm assuming like all the other updates). This graph has been posted so many times that you can't possibly continue to make up wrong numbers, at this point it appears that you're lying intentionally to try and fool people who haven't seen it. I'm guessing even people who tend to agree with you, probably wish you would stop embarrassing yourself, and "the cause".

Peak to peak (I.e. comparing the game at it's busiest time to another busiest time, the release day of MOTU to the release day of Shadowfail) the numbers where much more like a happy family reunion photo compared to a triple axe murder taking place at the family reunion. (a little over 30,000 compared to a little over 15,000, and Shadowfell didn't even best eGH numbers, in fact didn't get within 10,000)

I hate that I constantly have to correct you, could you please try to be remotely accurate in the future?
http://imageshack.com/a/img853/6306/tjbl.jpg

[LOOON375]

All Il say is this:

If the game was in as much decline, in regards to population, as people have been claiming for the last couple of years, this game would have ceased to exist by now.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I have always thought this game lacked advertising.

Turbine needs to find a way to advertise, and/or put something in store shelves to keep drawing in new players.

Even if it is just Turbine Points with directions to download the game.

Or something to push the Free to Play status, but get it out there and seen regularly.

[Welby]

All Il say is this:

If the game was in as much decline, in regards to population, as people have been claiming for the last couple of years, this game would have ceased to exist by now.

Yeah,..I can care less what charts and forums say about it. If I log in and see people,..enough to group up if I feel like it,..then I'm ok. If I hit a level or zone where it dies,..well,..

Play it till I don't. simple. But I'll let my experience inform that decision. Not a chart or thread :p



I have always thought this game lacked advertising.



Turbine needs a D& D movie to come out to hype it up,..like The HObbit does for LOTRO..oh wait,..we did get D&D movies, they,..were um,......no help there,..heh


I'm down with them making a DDO2 though. (wink)

[Postumus]

All Il say is this:

If the game was in as much decline, in regards to population, as people have been claiming for the last couple of years, this game would have ceased to exist by now.

This. I have no doubt a lot of original or long time players have left or taken long breaks, but the long timers who live to keep doom spamming (spooming?) the boards don't usually play with new players, and they have no clue how many new players there are each year. They can only think about how many players their guild lost or how many of their buddies no longer play.

[Buffyanne]

Are you sure you are playing DDO?

Turbine has it “home runs” with recent changes? You talking about the Ghostbane debacle, or the fact that random loot is actually better than epic loot? Or how about the eTR blow-up?

Good loot can potentially drop from every chest? That’s if you define “good loot” as being a combination of rapid stikes, riposte, ghostbane, and/or deathblock. It’s like there are only 4 attributes in the game anymore.

And those VIP goodies? They do NOT compare to what they took away.

Wow…just wow.

Let's see, for VIPs, you get exra experience, extra run speed, you never have to play L1 on a character because of the free XP you get from daily and weekly die rolls, you get a ton of free epic hearts of wood (I myself will be getting 13, that's the equivalent of what, $200?). I just don't see those as trivial things.

I have never understood the loot whining on these forums. Turbine just GAVE everyone at least one of the best weapons in the game. What do you care what random weapon loot is? I am talking about the outstanding ability score/deadly/protection/natural armor/resistance items that are often best in slot. And yes, this formula is far superior to the old method of only 3 uber guilds on each server that could complete epic VON so a handful of players lorded eSoS over everyone else. As for something like ghostbane I find it very useful. What is wrong with a character being able to actually hit something? Now melee characters can actually run Necro2 without an arcane on elite. There are also dozens upon dozens of weapons choices now for characters and builds. There used to be two, Min2 and a Lit2, maybe a rad2 if you were a rogue. You now have a huge array of armors to choose from. You used to have to grind thru prey on the hunter dozens of times (for no xp because you were already L20) for a lottery chance at runes on your dragontouch armor. The game has become so much better it really amazes me the stuff people nitpick about. Of course if u were one of the ultra power gamers that had all the best items and could bully around other players then yes, I suppose the wealth redistribution of modern ddo might annoy you.

[IronClan]

Are you sure you are playing DDO?

Turbine has it “home runs” with recent changes? You talking about the Ghostbane debacle, or the fact that random loot is actually better than epic loot? Or how about the eTR blow-up?

Good loot can potentially drop from every chest? That’s if you define “good loot” as being a combination of rapid stikes, riposte, ghostbane, and/or deathblock. It’s like there are only 4 attributes in the game anymore.

And those VIP goodies? They do NOT compare to what they took away.

Wow…just wow.

In fairness: I love the new XP ransack mechanism, seems like a homerun to me. Before 2 quests were repeated endlessly... now it's up to significantly more quest variety than before, in fact it almost feels a little like old end game, with VON chain, Wiz King, LoD "daily's" and Epic GH level 20+ runs MUCH more in evidence. Now all they have to do is buff the XP in old epics significantly and open the flood gates (House P is still pretty bad XP compared to VON's, haven't run House D's since the XP changes.)

The Enhancement pass was a home run... clearly... almost no one is complaining and saying they're leaving if it doesn't get tore down and rebuilt from scratch, that's as close to a home run as you get on the forums.

The ETR system as first proposed was scrapped due to player feedback and redesigned... this wasn't a home run, but it was more like a hard fought tie where both teams are okay with getting a point (remember when Hockey had ties?).

Ghostbane-apolooza got their attention and got changes... Not a homerun, but a great sliding catch that saved the game ending on an error. So to speak. Next Update we get relieved from the Ghostbane/Riposte tedium and a lot of old affixes get put back in. That's like a rally to tie the game and put us into extra innings. Maybe the composed affixes getting put back in later as high endian high level random loot that's actually desirable; maybe that will be the run that completes the rally?

Mostly I spent 4 or 5 hours last night and the night before on my off time, having a lot of fun in PUG's and a couple channel groups playing characters with new synergies due to the enhancement pass, playing varied quests due to the new XP ransack rules.

XP ransack appears to be a better rule than BB... maybe they should replace BB with a less restrictive version (eliminate the streak aspect, make it one time) and let ransack do the rest?

Homeruns? yep there've been some... If you hate playing the game nothing they do will appease you or appear to be a positive. Kinda like the southpark episode where Stan turns into a jaded cynical a******?

[bsquishwizzy]

Seems to have about the same amount of people as when MOTUD came out..

I know this game has a loyal playerbase, ive been here since 2005, but in you opinion has it grown?

Yes. And when I say "yes" what I actually mean as "no."

[bsquishwizzy]

Let's see, for VIPs, you get exra experience, extra run speed, you never have to play L1 on a character because of the free XP you get from daily and weekly die rolls, you get a ton of free epic hearts of wood (I myself will be getting 13, that's the equivalent of what, $200?). I just don't see those as trivial things.

I pray to God you are not an accountant or a business owner (and please tell me you don’t own the business I work at).

Extra run speed? Seriously? You think that is a big deal? LOL!

Extra XP is nice. I didn’t need it before. Don’t need it now. Same with the daily dice.

And all of that ****? Does not replace the fact that most of the new content coming out I’ll have to pay for in addition to the monthly charge that was originally billed as giving me access to “all content.”

(Cue droogie-esque fanboi who goes on to explain that all MMOs charge for their expansions, as if it applies…which it doesn’t.)

Some people are just so easily swayed by shiny, unimportant things.


I have never understood the loot whining on these forums. Turbine just GAVE everyone at least one of the best weapons in the game.

Which defeats the purpose of running that raid now as I got the weapon I “badly need” (which I don’t badly need).


What do you care what random weapon loot is?
You mean, besides the fact that before the loot debacle, some of it was actually useful?


I am talking about the outstanding ability score/deadly/protection/natural armor/resistance items that are often best in slot.

Yeah, because I really need Deathblock at lvl 4…


And yes, this formula is far superior to the old method of only 3 uber guilds on each server that could complete epic VON so a handful of players lorded eSoS over everyone else.

“Lorded” over everyone else? What? They ran your virtual life with that eSOS? I’d really like to see that.


As for something like ghostbane I find it very useful. What is wrong with a character being able to actually hit something?

Besides the fact that a Ghostbane longsword against a skelly is about as useful as a flaming longsword against the same mob?

That’s OK: you go all Ghostbane, I’ll stick with my disruptors…


Now melee characters can actually run Necro2 without an arcane on elite.

{Cough}{Cough}cannithcrafting{Cough}{Cough}

{Cough}{Cough}Irannecro2allthetimewithoutghostbane usingghosttouchweapons{Cough}{Cough}


There are also dozens upon dozens of weapons choices now for characters and builds.

There were more before U19…


There used to be two, Min2 and a Lit2, maybe a rad2 if you were a rogue. You now have a huge array of armors to choose from.

There were more before U19…


You used to have to grind thru prey on the hunter dozens of times (for no xp because you were already L20) for a lottery chance at runes on your dragontouch armor.

Which no one runs now because the armor itself is kinda useless.


Of course if u were one of the ultra power gamers that had all the best items and could bully around other players then yes, I suppose the wealth redistribution of modern ddo might annoy you.

You calling me an ultra powergamer is kinda like calling Teh_Troll “diplomatic” and Teh_Ghoul “witty”…

[IronClan]

All Il say is this:

If the game was in as much decline, in regards to population, as people have been claiming for the last couple of years, this game would have ceased to exist by now.

Hyperbole and exaggeration of a thing does not mean the subject is not a problem, it just means that some people are motivated and interested in drawing attention to the problem.

The same way that people who only see good things and happy flowers and song birds chirping around Turbine's glowing halo use hyperbole and exaggeration to draw attention away from Turbines flaws.

And yes I used hyperbole and exaggeration just there with humorous intent... and now I feel like Sheldon on big bang theory having explained something that is supposed to be humorous... thus making it not humorous.

If I am being called a "doomboi" for interpreting a graph more or less as accurately as I can and concluding that my in game experience over the last year since I came back from a year long break has seemed to coincide with the data. Then who's exaggerating?

Supporting observations with data, is not hyperbole or exaggeration. Calling a 50% decline (peak to peak from MOTU to Shadowfell) "nearing 50% attrition" is in fact UNDERSTATING THE DATA... because it's not nearing ~15 out of ~30 IS 50%

So the person practicing hyperbole and exaggeration is actually the one characterizing anyone that observe the in game experience matching the data; a doomboi (and much like the term Fanboi I can't help but picture a teeny bopper girly "gurl" typing "boi" it's impossible to sound less than silly when you spell it that way).

[IronClan]

(Cue droogie-esque fanboi who goes on to explain that all MMOs charge for their expansions, as if it applies…which it doesn’t.)

Oh god now I'm a "Droogie-esque Fan"boi" LOL. Look preemptively insulting someone who's about to tell you the cold hard facts of life as they exist outside the sheltered fantasy realms of Parentsbasementland, is not going to make the cold hard facts go away. Turbine has to make money if they do it via expansion or via subscription, or Epic hearts or Otto's boxes or all of the above, they have to make the company books work, or they have to fire employees and shut things down. If they don't make sufficient profits you don't get to play DDO... if that's okay with you, then go find a game you care about and stop trolling those of us who actually enjoy DDO.

[Algreg]

Ok, I can only speak from personal/anecdotal experience, this is my story: I played DDO quite a lot from 2010 to late 2011 and it was really great. Took a break for about 2,5 half years, randomly checking the game in between, now I am back full time for the time being. It is a great game, what drove me away was the lack of direction I felt. Epicize this, tone down that, boost this, nerf that. Really mixed messages from Turbine. Then the "streamlining"... Yes, contemporary new mmo players will find DDO overwhelmingly complicated. But this is a very old game by now. People sticking with it are really old school character build nerds and new players fed up with "casual mmorpg" out there. Turbine needs to focus on them. No, they do not need ghostbane to overcome the ridiculous undead in low levels. They need some comprehensive explanation how character building and the game system works very early in their DDO career. "Casual" players will not stay here, leave them to the community whine for daddy-fest that is GW2 and upcoming systems. Numbercrunching, character building madmen will - if only they´d get an early glimpse of how complex and fun character building is in here. And remove those early "sure you don´t want to buy this..." ads in early areas, it really turns off new players checking out f2p DDO I imagine. Microtransactions is really fine by me, but not a thing to shove into people´s faces when they just want to try out a game.

[Buffyanne]

I pray to God you are not an accountant or a business owner (and please tell me you don’t own the business I work at).

Extra run speed? Seriously? You think that is a big deal? LOL!

Extra XP is nice. I didn’t need it before. Don’t need it now. Same with the daily dice.

And all of that ****? Does not replace the fact that most of the new content coming out I’ll have to pay for in addition to the monthly charge that was originally billed as giving me access to “all content.”

(Cue droogie-esque fanboi who goes on to explain that all MMOs charge for their expansions, as if it applies…which it doesn’t.)

Some people are just so easily swayed by shiny, unimportant things.

If perks are not important to you then yes, you don't need to be VIP. That doesn't mean others don't like perks. I wasn't thrilled about the Shadowfell expansion, no one forced me to buy it, I still enjoyed DDO without it. However, when it went on sale for $15 last week, I figured why not? I just spent the same amount on two blurays, seems fair to spend it on DDO and see what it's about. Plus they gave me 1000 TPs and a character slot for the purchase so I picked up the Bladeforged I was waiting to try and had a slot to put him in. That's a real good deal to me and I am having fun exploring the new content which so far some pretty nice ML15 items.

Per ghost touch, there simply were not good enough ghost touch weapons available at level 8-10 to run elite necro2 for a melee. Ethereal bracers didn't kick in till L11. As far as cannith crafting, I play lots of alts, I am not gonna sit there and craft for every character, I like how you can pretty much pick up loot along the way and go in modern DDO.

Per eSOS bullies. Yes, they were absolute elitist game bullies that ruined the fun form many, lording over who got into raids and glowing about their importance and kill count. There was an era of DDO where this type of player divided and dominated guilds and unfortunately endgame. Modern DDO has made this player expendable, yes they might exist but people don't group with them anymore because they don't need the attitude and their power has been drastically nerfed because everyone else's power has gone way up.

Per deathblock @ L4. Not really talking that - how about Con+10 +45 hps, or Wis +10 +9 Dex, or INt +9 resiistance +1- or dex +10 natural armor +9? I find the L28 random loot items to be outstanding.

[locksmith]

OH NO! THERE IS NO LFM FOR LEVEL 26's! WHAT EVER WILL I DO? DOOOOOOOOOOM!

Oh wait I'll put my own up or solo.

[TrinityTurtle]

OH NO! THERE IS NO LFM FOR LEVEL 26's! WHAT EVER WILL I DO? DOOOOOOOOOOM!

Oh wait I'll put my own up or solo.

Ah, if only more people were like you and not scared of that leadership star. :)