Question about Combat

[Treefq]

Ok, So I have my tempest trapmonkey made and running him around Korthos. I have some questions about combat.

I turned off auto targeting because it kept switching my target on me during combat and I like to make sure I drop mobs before I move on.

1. What is up with auto attack? It says I will keep attacking my current target but when I start attacking, toon just sits there. I have to keep hitting the left mouse button. It seems too me I should be able to trigger an attack on my target then don't have to keep the Lmouse button pressed.

2. I guess I am supposed to move around and strafe and tumble? Don't go toe to toe on these mobs? I did program my mouse5 button to defense/tumble mode so that is easier but not sure.

Anyone like to share their melee keybinds with me?

Thanks

[Theolin]

Ok, So I have my tempest trapmonkey made and running him around Korthos. I have some questions about combat.

I turned off auto targeting because it kept switching my target on me during combat and I like to make sure I drop mobs before I move on.

1. What is up with auto attack? It says I will keep attacking my current target but when I start attacking, toon just sits there. I have to keep hitting the left mouse button. It seems too me I should be able to trigger an attack on my target then don't have to keep the Lmouse button pressed.

2. I guess I am supposed to move around and strafe and tumble? Don't go toe to toe on these mobs? I did program my mouse5 button to defense/tumble mode so that is easier but not sure.

Anyone like to share their melee keybinds with me?

Thanks


Auto attack is a feat listed in the with the feats on the character sheet - put it on a hot bar - its used like a toggle

Then go through the options looking for anything with soft targeting / targeting / precedence / combat type things and be sure they are set to how you wold like them (there must be at least 10 by now) auto targeting being just one of many

I use the DDO default with a few adjustments for me, I happen to like that general set up better. I changed the interact, rune arm, xp, mouse targeting mode.

To move or not move during combat: wisdom lies in knowing when to twich :)

[cru121]

to use autoattack, you need to hard target your foe. one option is right-click, but that's often tricky. There is also a keyboard shortcut for selecting next target (and previous target).. one of them might be Tab... and perhaps Backspace.

As for whether to move/block in combat: yes, you can dodge many attacks. ray spells can be strafed. arrows can be jumped. ogre special attacks can be run away from. blocking also does prevent many useful things.

[Frotz]

There's two types of targeting: soft target with one ring on the ground, and hard target with two rings on the ground around the target. A hard target will stay targeted until you manually switch it, while a soft target will switch automatically. You can make a soft target a hard target by hitting the TAB key by default. Auto-attack only attacks hard targets. I use mouse-look mode with auto-targeting on and TAB. I generally don't use auto attack except for ranged plinking of perching mobs.

[Clatterfist]

Knowing when to move and when to stay still is pretty important. Some general rules of thumb:

1. DDO isn't a game where circle strafing your melee opponents constantly does something significant. Standing still does not make you a bad player.
2. Standing still greatly improves your melee and ranged attacks. Attacking while moving is penalised, and even if you negate the strict accuracy minuses with the "Spring Attack" feat, you still won't go into your full bonused attack cycles, proc glancing hits with your two handed weapon, and so on.
3. Not standing still is one of the only ways to avoid ray spells, which don't have to beat your AC and generally don't allow saves.
4. Movement can keep you from getting surrounded or swarmed by large number of enemies. It's much hard for all of them to be able to swing at you if you're moving.
5. Strafing at range can be very effective when attacking with spells or ranged weapons if you want to avoid your enemies' returned fire.
6. Tumbling backwards is faster than walking backwards from relatively low skill values of tumble (10+).
7. Using terrain can make your life easier, almost action RPG style - fighting in doorways against greater numbers, using cover.

[AbyssalMage]

Ok, So I have my tempest trapmonkey made and running him around Korthos. I have some questions about combat.

I turned off auto targeting because it kept switching my target on me during combat and I like to make sure I drop mobs before I move on.
Most(all?) people suggest this. The only quest I turn off auto target is Crucible but that is not in your near future.


1. What is up with auto attack? It says I will keep attacking my current target but when I start attacking, toon just sits there. I have to keep hitting the left mouse button. It seems too me I should be able to trigger an attack on my target then don't have to keep the Lmouse button pressed.
The Auto Attack key must be active. You can place it in your hot bar to turn it on/off. Searching and doing some other skills will turn it off. Honestly the only time I have it on is when I am attacking the training dummy on the guild airship.


2. I guess I am supposed to move around and strafe and tumble? Don't go toe to toe on these mobs? I did program my mouse5 button to defense/tumble mode so that is easier but not sure.
Until patch U17 (think it was this patch) if you stood still you took more damage than moving. If you watch older videos on Youtube the only time people stood still was when the NPC was going down faster than if the player tried to move.

They changed the collision system in DDO (I think to fix the ladder bug that still remains but not as bad). This is why moving no longer gives you the advantage it once did. In some respects it can be worse because when you are surrounded by a group of NPC's and you attempt to jump out of the pack (something common before this update) if you land on their heads you just float above the mob and take damage without being able to retaliate. I notice it more on my caster as purposefully gaining Dungeon Alert (DA), getting surrounded, jumping and casting a nice AoE damage spell is a very common tactic; it is "SP/NPC effective." But if I get stuck on their heads instead of falling back to the ground (so I can jump and cast another AoE) it become very deadly for me :)

As others have said, moving does allow you to avoid ray spells, ranged attacks, and telegraphed special attacks (Ogre's for example). Blocking can prevent special ranged effect attacks (Its one of your "tips").

My advice is to move to prevent being hit with Ray spells (casters like casting them :)), being swarmed (it does NOT prevent SA, but being trapped and unable to move stinks), and fight in choke points when possible.


Anyone like to share their melee keybinds with me?
Everyone has their own set-up for their play style. Watch a few Youtube videos and you will start noticing/recognizing certain Feat keybinds that people may toggle on/off.


Thanks[/QUOTE]

[EllisDee37]

Anyone like to share their melee keybinds with me?I mapped the attack key to numeric keypad 4, letting me attack with the keyboard without having to use the mouse except to move around between fights. I get the entire rest of the numeric keypad (mapped to offscreen hotbar buttons) to set up everything I need while in-combat.

[Teh_Ghoul]

Knowing when to move and when to stay still is pretty important. Some general rules of thumb:

1. DDO isn't a game where circle strafing your melee opponents constantly does something significant. Standing still does not make you a bad player.
2. Standing still greatly improves your melee and ranged attacks. Attacking while moving is penalised, and even if you negate the strict accuracy minuses with the "Spring Attack" feat, you still won't go into your full bonused attack cycles, proc glancing hits with your two handed weapon, and so on.
3. Not standing still is one of the only ways to avoid ray spells, which don't have to beat your AC and generally don't allow saves.
4. Movement can keep you from getting surrounded or swarmed by large number of enemies. It's much hard for all of them to be able to swing at you if you're moving.
5. Strafing at range can be very effective when attacking with spells or ranged weapons if you want to avoid your enemies' returned fire.
6. Tumbling backwards is faster than walking backwards from relatively low skill values of tumble (10+).
7. Using terrain can make your life easier, almost action RPG style - fighting in doorways against greater numbers, using cover.

Don't forget perching

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431523-EE-FOT-solo

[Matuse]

1. DDO isn't a game where circle strafing your melee opponents constantly does something significant.

Seldom do you see a statement as egregiously wrong as this one. Try fighting a hill giant while standing in one place vs strafing around their side when they swing, and then come back here and feel free to retract your preposterous claim.

Movement as a melee is CRUCIAL to being effective. Actually, movement is just plain crucial to everyone.

[Clatterfist]

I call hyperbole on that, Matuse!

If you go into Korthos and aggro a Devourer Minion, and let him stand there beating on you, then his rate of attacks ix X. If you then start to strafe him in a tight circle, his rate of attacks against you remains X. There's no basic, intrinsic benefit to circle strafing in DDO. This is in contrast to games like The Secret World, where you're intended to circle strafe wherever possible, and it can reduce the number of hits you're taking by like a third against almost any opponent, because it costs them action time to turn.

Now DDO's giants are an exception to this rule (or at least feel that way) because they have huge hitboxes and turn slowly. So, you've got a great point when bringing that up. But that doesn't mean my basic point doesn't have some validity as a rule of thumb, which is just a general guideline. Most of the time, what I said will be true.

While we're on the subject, though, there are some telegraphed special moves that you can block, or avoid by moving out of the way, and that's one time when it can definitely pay to move in combat. A drider's big poison move is a good example of this type of ability. Tumble can be very useful in this sort of situation because it not only lets you perform short movements quickly, it also doesn't break your attack chain. Tumble is cool like that.

[Matuse]

If you go into Korthos and aggro a Devourer Minion, and let him stand there beating on you, then his rate of attacks ix X. If you then start to strafe him in a tight circle, his rate of attacks against you remains X. There's no basic, intrinsic benefit to circle strafing in DDO.

Rate of attack is not why strafing melee monsters is effective.

He faces away from you = he will miss. There isn't even a roll. He just misses.

When you are behind a monster, you get +2 to hit. Fewer misses and glancing blows for you.

Those sound like intrinsic benefits to me.

[Qhualor]

I call hyperbole on that, Matuse!

If you go into Korthos and aggro a Devourer Minion, and let him stand there beating on you, then his rate of attacks ix X. If you then start to strafe him in a tight circle, his rate of attacks against you remains X. There's no basic, intrinsic benefit to circle strafing in DDO. This is in contrast to games like The Secret World, where you're intended to circle strafe wherever possible, and it can reduce the number of hits you're taking by like a third against almost any opponent, because it costs them action time to turn.

Now DDO's giants are an exception to this rule (or at least feel that way) because they have huge hitboxes and turn slowly. So, you've got a great point when bringing that up. But that doesn't mean my basic point doesn't have some validity as a rule of thumb, which is just a general guideline. Most of the time, what I said will be true.

While we're on the subject, though, there are some telegraphed special moves that you can block, or avoid by moving out of the way, and that's one time when it can definitely pay to move in combat. A drider's big poison move is a good example of this type of ability. Tumble can be very useful in this sort of situation because it not only lets you perform short movements quickly, it also doesn't break your attack chain. Tumble is cool like that.

ever wondered why people say to move around when fighting toe to toe with mobs and not just stand there? DDO isn't LOTRO. you move around, mobs can miss you. when you run up to a mob, strafe to miss those spells and ranged attacks. don't just rely on saves, hp and out dpsing the mobs before they can kill you. with more experience, know your enemy and your characters abilities, movement can greatly reduce the damage you take.

[Dandonk]

ever wondered why people say to move around when fighting toe to toe with mobs and not just stand there? DDO isn't LOTRO. you move around, mobs can miss you. when you run up to a mob, strafe to miss those spells and ranged attacks. don't just rely on saves, hp and out dpsing the mobs before they can kill you. with more experience, know your enemy and your characters abilities, movement can greatly reduce the damage you take.

So very much this. Movement can reduce incoming damage by a very large amount.

[Clatterfist]

Rate of attack is not why strafing melee monsters is effective.

He faces away from you = he will miss. There isn't even a roll. He just misses.

When you are behind a monster, you get +2 to hit. Fewer misses and glancing blows for you.

Those sound like intrinsic benefits to me.

A guy like a Devourer Minion will face you with every attack, rolling it normally with no time cost at all (I did test this before posting), and the +2 you might get if you can wrangle being behind him on your own swing is more than cancelled out by the -4 you receive for moving, on top of which you don't get your heavily bonused attack chain (+5, +10, etc.) or go into swings that can produce glancing blows, which is a force multiplier. I also think you meant to say "grazing hits".


ever wondered why people say to move around when fighting toe to toe with mobs and not just stand there? DDO isn't LOTRO. you move around, mobs can miss you. when you run up to a mob, strafe to miss those spells and ranged attacks. don't just rely on saves, hp and out dpsing the mobs before they can kill you. with more experience, know your enemy and your characters abilities, movement can greatly reduce the damage you take.

Yeah, movement can have some great defensive benefits against ranged attacks, but we already covered that. In melee, it's a trade-off at best, and against normal sized mobs that instantly turn and swing it's a negative without benefits. Intelligent movement is a good thing, acting like a rabbit on drugs is not required.

[Qhualor]

Yeah, movement can have some great defensive benefits against ranged attacks, but we already covered that. In melee, it's a trade-off at best, and against normal sized mobs that instantly turn and swing it's a negative without benefits. Intelligent movement is a good thing, acting like a rabbit on drugs is not required.

theres no trade off. you can still get mobs to miss you if you constantly move. sometimes if mobs resist a stun, trip or some other combat tactics you can move around swinging and still hit with glancing blows until the cool down is over to try again if the mob isn't already killed yet. that's the other thing, moving around you still hit with glancing blows. you can also do the "kiting" method where you are swinging and moving backwards. you still hit the mobs but because you are moving, theres a good chance mobs are missing you or just grazing hits. the benefit of movement is more than just defensive, but can also be offensive. moving around also prevents mobs from surrounding you so you don't get sneak attacks against you or unable to move if you are in trouble and need to flee. standing still and trying to out dps a mob serves a lot less benefit and requires unnecessary additional healing.

[cdr]

There's also the fact that you have a greater melee range when moving - melee kiting backwards can often have a better reach than the mob chasing them.

Clatterfist, you're trying to make it all about rolls and attack bonuses, but the actual attack animations and movement are far more important. This isn't D&D.

[voxson5]

Twitch fighting (better for thf granted).

OP: DDO is not like any other mmo: you do actually play it like a console game, rather than just pressing one button auto attack like in WoW or similar (but as others have said; can be done)

[Clatterfist]

Let's settle this point about glancing blows, since Qhualor's challenged me on that:

Normal attacks while moving do not produce glancing blows.
Normal attacks while stationary produce them on certain specific swings in the attack chain, and this starts out as half of all your attacks and improves to three quarters once you get the Greater Two Handed Fighting feat.
However, certain special attacks can produce glancing blows when used with two-handed weapons, and these moves will do so even while moving: most notably the popular and useful Cleave feats. If you cleave a lot, you can retain more of the benefits of a two-handed fighting style while you're in motion.

While testing this, I also observed that special attacks used on the move are more accurate than I would have expected from their standard behaviour, which is to replace the next attack in your attack chain. That is, if you time them right while standing still, then they'll benefit from the peak accuracy of your final hit in the attack chain (stationary attacks go at attack bonus +0/+0/+5/+10 over your normal values on the first through fourth hits, respectively). However, when used while in motion the rules seem to be a little different: I haven't figured out exactly what was happening, but I was seeing numbers similar to the third hit in the standing attack chain while activating cleaves and trips in motion: a huge step up from what the next attack in your moving attack chain should be (a penalised 0/0). So, while you'd still get the best accuracy from timing it right and standing still, it seems like using lots of specials can actually help to bypass the penalties associated with fighting and moving at the same time, which was certainly news to me!

[AbyssalMage]

ever wondered why people say to move around when fighting toe to toe with mobs and not just stand there? DDO isn't LOTRO. you move around, mobs can miss you. when you run up to a mob, strafe to miss those spells and ranged attacks. don't just rely on saves, hp and out dpsing the mobs before they can kill you. with more experience, know your enemy and your characters abilities, movement can greatly reduce the damage you take.
This may have been true prior to U17 (Think this was the Collision update. Would have to go through the patch notes to verify). After this patch, NPC's no longer miss when you strafe on a normal attack (specials and spells excluded). Strafe around an at level NPC and he will roll attack rolls vs. defense chance. It's the easiest way to verify. You should never get hit if what you are saying is true. Which was definitely true before this patch.

p.s. I will have to try the tumble strafe though :) If that works it will make tumble a whole lot more valuable.