Maximum Dodge?

[Fingerstyle]

Surprisingly there is no wiki information yet about ways to increase maximum dodge bonus. Here's what i've been able to find on my own, are there any others?

Enhancements:
Nimble Reaction (+3) (Halfling)
Agility (+3) (Ninja Spy or Kensei)
Improved Mobility (+3) (Tempest or Kensei)
Meditation of War Water Stance (+5) (Shintao)

That's all i could. Are there any other ways? So far it looks like a maximum of 39% is achievable with a halfling monk fighter.

Thanks!

[Eth]

Meld into Darkness: +100% for 15 seconds
Elaborate Parry: up to +30% for 15 seconds

But I guess you are more looking for permanent boosts? ;)
Still with both of these active you can reach 169% for a couple seconds (not that more than 100% is any useful).

[FuzzyDuck81]

Primal travel (primal avatar core ability) gives +50% for 12 seconds - but it does a triple jump backwards, don't use it near ledges :)

[Grecan]

I've noticed (hovering my mouse above the AC part of the Character Sheet) that there's also this thing called Dodge Cap
(?Max Dodge chance?) or something like that (i'm not in-game to check) and i wonder which of the abilities that boost Dodge do indeed overcome this barrier - and which are limited by it.

From what i understand, the Improved Mobility enhancement in the Tempest tree doesn't add dodge %, it adds to the Dodge Cap (Max Dodge chance).


I've also noticed that if i change from robes to light armor, both my Dodge and Dodge Cap are significantly reduced, but i don't understand why, cause the enhancements (like Improved Dodge) that boost my Dodge chance say that they work with light or no armor... Are there any that don't work with light armor?

[Eth]

I've noticed (hovering my mouse above the AC part of the Character Sheet) that there's also this thing called Dodge Cap
(?Max Dodge chance?) or something like that (i'm not in-game to check) and i wonder which of the abilities that boost Dodge do indeed overcome this barrier - and which are limited by it.

From what i understand, the Improved Mobility enhancement in the Tempest tree doesn't add dodge %, it adds to the Dodge Cap (Max Dodge chance).

That is exactly what this thread is about :D
Ways to improve the dodge cap beyond the standard 25%.

[Grecan]

That is exactly what this thread is about :D
Ways to improve the dodge cap beyond the standard 25%.Ok, so you've listed the Elaborate Parry enhancement, and i'm looking for a clarification - does it boost Dodge Chance above the Dodge Cap? Cause in it's description i read about giving more dodge %, but not about increasing the Dodge Cap.
And if such abilities increase the Dodge chance above the Dodge cap without increasing the Dodge Cap... then what's the meaning/function of Dodge cap and Improved Mobility?



And... this is exactly why i post these questions in this thread, duh

[Eth]

Ok, so you've listed the Elaborate Parry enhancement, and i'm looking for a clarification - does it boost Dodge Chance above the Dodge Cap? Cause in it's description i read about giving more dodge %, but not about increasing the Dodge Cap.
And if such abilities increase the Dodge chance above the Dodge cap without increasing the Dodge Cap... then what's the meaning/function of Dodge cap and Improved Mobility?
With a full stack (15) it did show 55% max dodge cap (25% base + 30%, seems right) in the mouse over on my character sheet.
I havent tested it in combat yet though (training dummy only).

It also raises dodge. I have 16% base dodge, so with a full stack it showed 46% of 55% max.

[Eth]

I've also noticed that if i change from robes to light armor, both my Dodge and Dodge Cap are significantly reduced, but i don't understand why, cause the enhancements (like Improved Dodge) that boost my Dodge chance say that they work with light or no armor... Are there any that don't work with light armor?
It works like this.
First you have to differ between dodge and dodge cap.
Dodge is the number of all your stacking dodge bonuses.
Dodge cap depends on your armor.
Dodge cap for robes, outfits and naked = 25%
Dodge cap for other armors equals the maximum dexterity bonus listed on the armor (e.g. flawless black dragonhide armor = 19%).

So lets say your dodge is 23% and you are wearing a flawless black dragonhide armor. Your character sheet will only list 19% dodge, because that is your dodge cap, no matter if your actual dodge is higher than that.
To get the benefit of the full 23% that you actually have you would need to raise your dodge cap by 4% or switch to robe or outfit.

Therefore be careful what armor you chose. If you have a high dodge a heavy armor can give you significantly worse overall defense.

Hope this helps :)

[PermaBanned]

It works like this.
First you have to differ between dodge and dodge cap.
Dodge is the number of all your stacking dodge bonuses.
Dodge cap depends on your armor.
Dodge cap for robes, outfits and naked = 25%
Dodge cap for other armors equals the maximum dexterity bonus listed on the armor (e.g. flawless black dragonhide armor = 19%).

So lets say your dodge is 23% and you are wearing a flawless black dragonhide armor. Your character sheet will only list 19% dodge, because that is your dodge cap, no matter if your actual dodge is higher than that.
To get the benefit of the full 23% that you actually have you would need to raise your dodge cap by 4% or switch to robe or outfit.

Therefore be careful what armor you chose. If you have a high dodge a heavy armor can give you significantly worse overall defense.

Hope this helps :)
While I understand armor (or lack of) sets the "base" dodge cap (via max dex bonus), Is there a comprehensive list of available means to increase dodge cap? I'm mainly thinking of gear (including things like Augs that increase an armor's max dex bonus), though having any of the various feats & enhancements included would also be greatly appreciated. Also, do the temp increases (boosts, clickies etc) supersede armor restricted dodge cap?

[Grecan]

It works like this.
First you have to differ between dodge and dodge cap.
Dodge is the number of all your stacking dodge bonuses.
Dodge cap depends on your armor.
Dodge cap for robes, outfits and naked = 25%
Dodge cap for other armors equals the maximum dexterity bonus listed on the armor (e.g. flawless black dragonhide armor = 19%).

So lets say your dodge is 23% and you are wearing a flawless black dragonhide armor. Your character sheet will only list 19% dodge, because that is your dodge cap, no matter if your actual dodge is higher than that.
To get the benefit of the full 23% that you actually have you would need to raise your dodge cap by 4% or switch to robe or outfit.

Therefore be careful what armor you chose. If you have a high dodge a heavy armor can give you significantly worse overall defense.

Hope this helps :)Yes, of course it helps much, thanks again :)

It would make things easier to understand if the part about Dodge Cap was described on the armors or... idk, in another relative place in-game. I had no idea how it works until now.

(Depends on the gear i wear ofc, but my main's max permanent Dodge reaches 25% (at lvl 20) with robes)




While I understand armor (or lack of) sets the "base" dodge cap (via max dex bonus), Is there a comprehensive list of available means to increase dodge cap? I'm mainly thinking of gear (including things like Augs that increase an armor's max dex bonus), though having any of the various feats & enhancements included would also be greatly appreciated. Also, do the temp increases (boosts, clickies etc) supersede armor restricted dodge cap?I only know of the Improved Mobility enhancement in Tempest that increases the Max Dex Bonus and Dodge Cap when wearing no armor or light armor. I am interested to learn the complete list, as well, don't know if such a thing exists, but if you find it let us know please.

Judging by Eth's response regarding Elaborate Parry (few posts above), it seems that those temp increases can defy and supersede the Dodge Cap.


[i might do some tests on my own sometime later]

[Eth]

While I understand armor (or lack of) sets the "base" dodge cap (via max dex bonus), Is there a comprehensive list of available means to increase dodge cap? I'm mainly thinking of gear (including things like Augs that increase an armor's max dex bonus), though having any of the various feats & enhancements included would also be greatly appreciated. Also, do the temp increases (boosts, clickies etc) supersede armor restricted dodge cap?

Well, pretty much everything what the OP listed.


If you just want to raise the max dex bonus of your armor to increase your dodge cap you can also consider these:
- Stalwart Defensive Mastery
- Sacred Armor Mastery (no idea if these two stack)

Feats:
- Mobility

Augments:
- Nimbleness (must be slotted in the Armor though, I think. But definatly works. I had this in a White Dragonplate for some time)


Regarding Meld into Darkness and elaborate parry. Yes they supersede your dodge cap.
Meld into Darkness literally makes you immune to any physical attacks for 15 seconds (raising your dodge AND dodge cap to 100%+).

[Grecan]

Regarding Meld into Darkness and elaborate parry. Yes they supersede your dodge cap.
Meld into Darkness literally makes you immune to any physical attacks for 15 seconds (raising your dodge AND dodge cap to 100%+).Regarding Elaborate Parry, i tested it on the Training Dummy, and it raised both my Dodge and Dodge Max Chance ONLY when wearing cloth armor (i suppose if i was naked the effect would be the same), but NOT when wearing light armor - the only light armor i tested this with was the Chainshirt of Crippling http://ddowiki.com/page/Chain_Shirt_of_Crippling

[Sianys]

the only light armor i tested this with was the Chainshirt of Crippling http://ddowiki.com/page/Chain_Shirt_of_Crippling

It possibly didn't work because that chainshirt already had the Mithril property on it, which "lightens" the armor and thus raises the armor's base Dex/Dodge Cap.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Mithral

So, it looks like Elaborate Parry doesn't really stack with armor with the Mithril property, though that could be further tested with another chainshirt with Mithril on it just to be sure it's not a bug limited to that specific shirt. My ranger has the first tier of Elaborate Parry and Crimson Chain (http://ddowiki.com/page/Crimson_Chain), so I'll try some testing as well.

[Grecan]

It possibly didn't work because that chainshirt already had the Mithril property on it, which "lightens" the armor and thus raises the armor's base Dex/Dodge Cap.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Mithral

So, it looks like Elaborate Parry doesn't really stack with armor with the Mithril property, though that could be further tested with another chainshirt with Mithril on it just to be sure it's not a bug limited to that specific shirt. My ranger has the first tier of Elaborate Parry and Crimson Chain (http://ddowiki.com/page/Crimson_Chain), so I'll try some testing as well.Yeah, it probably needs more testing (that's why i made sure to say that i used only that one light armor), but imo it would be silly (or maybe a bug) if it doesn't work with mithral armors -or other types of light armors - but works with some other types of light armor.

I'll try to do some more tests, too.


And what if it doesn't work with any kind of light armor, do you think that would be WAI or a bug?

[Sianys]

And what if it doesn't work with any kind of light armor, do you think that would be WAI or a bug?

I'd say bug; Rangers typically wear light armor, so it doesn't make sense to have an Enhancement that won't work with it. If it is WAI (which is totally cuckoo to me), then the Enhancement needs clarification ("works only wearing cloth/outfit/robe").

[sifubob]

Yeah, it probably needs more testing (that's why i made sure to say that i used only that one light armor), but imo it would be silly (or maybe a bug) if it doesn't work with mithral armors -or other types of light armors - but works with some other types of light armor.

I'll try to do some more tests, too.


And what if it doesn't work with any kind of light armor, do you think that would be WAI or a bug?

On my ranger, who wears Breastplate of Destruction (also a mithral armour) the dodge cap does not increase past it's current max of 14 %

[Rykka]

Wearing Robe/Garments/Nothing and Dodge Max 25%. EP raises dodge by +30%/Dodge Max also goes up +30%

With leather or chain EP caps out at Max Dex Bonus. Dodge Max doesn't change.

[Grecan]

With leather or chain EP caps out at Max Dex Bonus. Dodge Max doesn't change.Perhaps we should all* bug-report this issue.

*(all who play Tempests and/or care about this)



[i personally haven't performed any more tests with EP]

[Dartwick]

Some confusion here.
I believe their are 3 different stats that matter.

Dodge - the simple sum of all stacking dodge bonuses

Dodge Cap - a limit on effective dodge based on your armors max dex bonus. It can be raised with enhancements that raise "dodge cap" It does not exist with cloth armor.

Maximum Dodge - a standard 25% - it can be raised with enhancements that raise 'Max dodge."

[Grecan]

Some confusion here.
I believe their are 3 different stats that matter.

Dodge - the simple sum of all stacking dodge bonuses

Dodge Cap - a limit on effective dodge based on your armors max dex bonus. It can be raised with enhancements that raise "dodge cap" It does not exist with cloth armor.

Maximum Dodge - a standard 25% - it can be raised with enhancements that raise 'Max dodge."
Maybe some posts haven't been clear enough, but personally, i'm not confused at all about those stats (at least the last few days :P)

The tests so far simply show the fact that when wearing cloth armor or no armor, Elaborate Parry increases both Dodge and Dodge Cap up to 30%, but nothing like that happens when wearing light armor.
(my test with cloth armor: EP raised Dodge from 24% to 54% // with Chainshirt of Crippling (light armor): EP didn't raise Dodge, it stayed at 16% or so)


i'll try to do more tests though and be more detailed and scientific... but the difference is hard to miss...

[Eth]

OK, that's interesting. I'm wearing a robe on my ranger so I didn't notice it wouldn't work with armors.
I'm not entirely convinced though that the dodge cap actually increases although it says so on my character sheet - even with robes.
It's just super hard to test in combat, if there actually is a difference.

[maddmatt70]

OK, that's interesting. I'm wearing a robe on my ranger so I didn't notice it wouldn't work with armors.
I'm not entirely convinced though that the dodge cap actually increases although it says so on my character sheet - even with robes.
It's just super hard to test in combat, if there actually is a difference.

It is not too hard to test. It does work. I have 34 dodge on my light tank and clearly I dodge attacks more. The hardest thing to test actually is incite. I have a feeling some of the incite is bugged or not stacking, but really hard to test.

[Eth]

It is not too hard to test. It does work. I have 34 dodge on my light tank and clearly I dodge attacks more. The hardest thing to test actually is incite. I have a feeling some of the incite is bugged or not stacking, but really hard to test.
Ok, good to know then. It's just hard to tell the difference between 20% and 50% dodge in just a couple of seconds.

And agreed on incite. Seems pretty weird lately.

[Grecan]

It is not too hard to test. It does work. I have 34 dodge on my light tank and clearly I dodge attacks more.


Ok, good to know then. It's just hard to tell the difference between 20% and 50% dodge in just a couple of seconds.I hope it does indeed work with armors. But
a) I think this needs more testing in order to be absolutely sure.
b) If it works fine, then there's still a bug, but only a graphical one.

I wear robes, too, but put that armor i mentioned on to test. But I haven't been running quests at all lately, that's why i tested only on the training dummy. And i'll probably continue like this (staying in public instances) for some more days... So if anyone's interested to do some more testing in action, or in any case uses Elaboate Parry in quests/explorer zones. please post your results/findings/hunch here.

[Rykka]

Maybe some posts haven't been clear enough, but personally, i'm not confused at all about those stats (at least the last few days :P)

The tests so far simply show the fact that when wearing cloth armor or no armor, Elaborate Parry increases both Dodge and Dodge Cap up to 30%, but nothing like that happens when wearing light armor.
(my test with cloth armor: EP raised Dodge from 24% to 54% // with Chainshirt of Crippling (light armor): EP didn't raise Dodge, it stayed at 16% or so)


i'll try to do more tests though and be more detailed and scientific... but the difference is hard to miss...

I don't think Dartwick was disagreeing, he was just pointing out that Cloth Armor doesn't impose the Max Dex Bonus that limits Dodge while wearing Light Armor. It's not that complicated to figure out. In the code, this would be checked separately from the normal 25% Max Dodge, which is independent of armor. So EP was coded to bypass the normal 25% limit to Dodge but not the separate limit imposed by Armor.

In any case (back on topic) EP is OK enhancement for raising Dodge as long as your toon is designed to wear robes. Like a Monk with Ranger4+ or something. Assuming of course that you'd spend the 26AP to get it. It depends on hitting a lot in a short time span and only works for 20seconds per minute.

[nikos1313]

Didnt want to start new thread so ill post here.

can someone tell me sources to boost Dodge Cap, now that U22 is here?

so far im using:

+2 to cap Ship Buff
+3 to cap Halfling Tier 2 Nible Reaction
+3 to cap Kensei Tier 2 Agility
+5 to cap Swashbuckler tier 4 Core Ability (only applies when swashbuckiling, and required 18 Bard levels)



any other means to boost it, considering that i am a 18 bard/2fighter, halfling?
i would also be interested to see other splits that can have higher Dodge Cap, but they must be Swashbucklers

thnx in advance

[Fionivar]

I'm pretty sure you found them all. I think your 38% dodge cap is going to be the limit. Nothing I can think of left to get it higher than that. There are no ED's that add to dodge cap, no feats. And the other cap in Ranger conflicts with Fighter. The last one, in Monk, is not compatible with Swashbucker, but the +5 > +3 you can get there.

[gwonbush]

You can use Uncanny Dodge from Swashbuckler Level 6 core to temporarily raise it to 63%.

[Dreppo]

I'm pretty sure you found them all. I think your 38% dodge cap is going to be the limit. Nothing I can think of left to get it higher than that. There are no ED's that add to dodge cap, no feats. And the other cap in Ranger conflicts with Fighter. The last one, in Monk, is not compatible with Swashbucker, but the +5 > +3 you can get there.

There's +8% dodge cap to be had from monk, which is 3% higher than bard. The +8% is: +3% from Agility (Ninja Spy T2), +5% from Meditation of War (Shintao T5) when in water stance. This was mentioned in the very first post in this thread.

Someone else mentioned that the new ship buffs can give +2% dodge cap. That means we're now up to a possible +16% dodge cap above the base 25%, for a potential of 41% dodge cap:

Ship Buffs (+2)
Nimble Reaction (+3) (Halfling)
Agility (+3) (Ninja Spy or Kensei)
Improved Mobility (+3) (Tempest or Kensei)
Meditation of War Water Stance (+5) (Shintao)

[MacDubh]

In EDs, Lithe (tier 2 Shadowdancer can increase max dex bonus).

However, my Swashbuckler used this to raise his max dex bonus to 36, but dodge cap remained at 30 (25% + Second Skin from Swashbuckler)., as least on char sheet. So in that instance, the Lithe mdb boost stacked with Second Skin for mdb, but not for dodge ..

[Rykka]

In EDs, Lithe (tier 2 Shadowdancer can increase max dex bonus).

However, my Swashbuckler used this to raise his max dex bonus to 36, but dodge cap remained at 30 (25% + Second Skin from Swashbuckler)., as least on char sheet. So in that instance, the Lithe mdb boost stacked with Second Skin for mdb, but not for dodge ..

MaxDexBonus isn't supposed to raise Dodge, it just adjusts a secondary dodge cap levied for wearing armor. Which is why my ranger wore pajamas in epic. A few points of AC and a sniff of PRR with a capped 18dodge(IIRC) vs 20dodge that could spike to 50-60.

[nikos1313]

In EDs, Lithe (tier 2 Shadowdancer can increase max dex bonus).

However, my Swashbuckler used this to raise his max dex bonus to 36, but dodge cap remained at 30 (25% + Second Skin from Swashbuckler)., as least on char sheet. So in that instance, the Lithe mdb boost stacked with Second Skin for mdb, but not for dodge ..

took me quite a while to figure out how those 2 interact with each other (dodge cap and MDB)

here is the deal:

To start with, every character no matter what, starts with a 25% Dodge Cap

When u use Cloth/Robe you DO NOT care about MDB at all. it will not apply to your Robes. you only care about how to raise your Dodge Cap, not the MDB.

If u wear any type of armor (light, medium, heavy) then u must care about your MDB, if u want more Dodge.

Generally, when u use armors, then the Dodge Cap is equal to your MDB. BUT here comes the trick.

IF the MDB of the armor is LESS than the Base Dodge Cap (25) then the Dodge Cap is equal to your MDB. even if u have abilities that rasise your Dodge Cap, to lets say 30, they wont apply, because of the MDB of your armor. so in that case, u need to raise your MDB to 30, so you can take advantage of your Dodge Cap.

IF the MDB of the armor is MORE that the Base Dodge Cap (25) then you just have to raise your Dodge Cap,to meet to the score of the MDB odf the armor.

I hope i didnt confused you more!