Need help with build my Paladin

[wasta]

Hello everyone
at begining I want to say I never played a paladin and I have two questions.
What you think about my Paladin build, it's ****?( if you want you can try fix my build but I want play using long sword and shield)
What I can change for Feat: Toughness to get better dmg?


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 344
Spell Points: 376
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 16
Will: 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 10 12
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 10 12
Wisdom 14 16
Charisma 16 27

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 2 12.5
Bluff 3 8
Concentration 2 3
Diplomacy 3 8
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 8
Heal 2 16
Hide 0 1
Intimidate 3 8
Jump 3 7
Listen 2 5
Move Silently 0 1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 2
Search 0 4
Spellcraft 0 1
Spot 2 5
Swim 3 7
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 5 20.5

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Drow - Spell Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Drow Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Spell Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Drow Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Fiendslayer I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Fiendslayer II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Fiendslayer III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Champion of Good (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Light (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Light (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Light (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Censure Demons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Passion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Passion (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Passion (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Censure Outsiders (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Holy Retribution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Holy Retribution (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Holy Retribution (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Sealed Life (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Redemption (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Glorious Stand (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Shield Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Shield Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Shield Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Reinforced Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Reinforced Shield (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Reinforced Shield (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Charisma (Rank 1)

[kned225]

What are your goals? Are u wanting to play a tin can tank with buddies in a casual static grp or are u planning to tank ee fot?

This info will greatly affect the usefulness of the advice you receive

[gelack]

There are 3 things I can see wrong with this.

1: Pure paladin. Just no.

2: No cleave or great cleave. Drop both toughnesses and take them.

3: Drow.

[Lonnbeimnech]

What I can change for Feat: Toughness to get better dmg?

Improved critical slash.

But honestly long sword is not a good weapon, add to that you are only using one of them. You could use rapiers and get a bonus to damage with them as a drow, take improved crit pierce, drop shield mastery for twf...that will help a bit, you will go from unbelievably low dps to moderately low dps.

[Inoukchuk]

There are 3 things I can see wrong with this.

1: Pure paladin. Just no.

2: No cleave or great cleave. Drop both toughnesses and take them.

3: Drow.

^This.

I would go human and splash 2 (or 3) monk and 2 fighter. This gives you 5 more feats, which is nearly double what you start with. Cleave and great cleave on any single handed build are the biggest DPS boosts you can get from feats and never EVER to be skipped IMO. I would skip any armor or shield improvement in enhancements, focus on DPS, heal amp, healing in that order. AC isn't great as is and the AP cost of the AC improvements to go from useless to barely useful AC is far too high. Instead get dodge, saves, PRR, concealment, heal amp, and healing; even with 15 or 16 paladin levels you'll have plenty of healing with unyielding sovereignty (a must have), LoH, and cure spells.

[Enoach]

If the intent is to be S&B, than please understand that you will not have the DPS of a full on Barbarian or Fighter. Part of this is because you will lack the feats necessary during the heroic level and as a Pure Paladin will not have access to abilities that Barbarians and Fighters get through their trees. Also if going the Defender Route, rage will only be useful outside of the Sacred Stance. With that being said...

Longswords are not the weapon of choice for many, the statistical numbers put this weapon behind scimitars as their natural base damage and crit profile mathematically in a vacuum work out that way. However, of all the weapons Longswords make up one of the highest concentration of "Named" items, one of which was the only Slashing Weapon with Banishment (Abbot Raid) and another that is tailored based on how many levels of Paladin you have (See Vision of Distruction).

I've personally gone the Longsword route myself.

Next your feats:

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host <- For a longsword user this is a good choice, for a paladin it also means at 6th level a "Better Lay On Hands"
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack <- Good Choice, as your Sacred Stance and later if you use UA stances will more than make up for not being in CE Stance

Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery

Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness <- Only Take Toughness once, this is no longer tied to toughness enhancements and being limited you need to focus

Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery

Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell <- While useful in maintaining short buff, consider acquiring a Torc or building a Con-Op item and replacing this feat. Paladin buffs are cheap and most combat buffs have fast cast rates so with a moderate concentration you will have no problem at later levels renewing this buff, or even renewing this buff as you move from one combat to the next.

Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash <- The Additional Double strike as well as the chance for a Shield hit help to make up the gap of not holding two weapons, as it makes the shield into a weapon.

Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness <- see above comment on Toughness

Feats you should consider to try and work in...
Improved Critical: Slash - While this does not work with Keen weapons, it does improve the Crit Range of your weapon. This is good as the use of Divine Sacrifice and Smite/Exalted Smite benefit from more chances to crit - Nothing is sweeter than a Doublestrike Exalted Smite for a paladin's burst damage.

Cleave - More so later on as it will have two effects 1) ability to help establish agro on a broader group, helping to keep a group of monsters centered on you as well as open up Cleave options for the Legendary Dreadnought ED

If you can work in Greater Cleave and Overwhelming critical with your Epic Feats they too will be worth it

Shield Deflection - This feat will help more on the Defensive side as it will reduce incoming Elemental damage.

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As an S&B character and especially as a Paladin that does not have the Feat depth of a Fighter, you will lack in options for neutralizing foes such as Stun. I found the trick here was to look towards shields and their effects. Bashing Shields add additional damage potential so look for those types of shields.

Also utilizing your Artificer PL to help enhance your UMD potential for scrolls can open you up for some good buffs such as:

Master Touch - Use this to gain Tower Shield Proficiency when the abilities of a Tower Shield would greatly enhance you

Fireshield - I consider this the "feat starved" evasion replacement. As a Paladin you will have good saves, but even that will still get you 1/2 damage. The use of Fireshield (cold/hot) will help mitigate Fire or Cold damage even further as it absorbs 1/2 the damage of its appropriate element type. In theory meaning you will only get 1/4 the damage, which can be covered by Resists in many cases (you will still take some but not all)

Shield - While there are clickies, this cheap scrolled spell can help reduce MM damage

Tenser's Transformation - Requires a bit higher UMD (Most like only met at epic levels) but the bonuses it gives are nice, lasting just a little less than a non-extended paladin buff. The draw back of cooldown times does mean you will depend more on your LoH vs Spell Healing, but it is worth the trade off.

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Next advice is learning that even though you don't have Feats for THF or TWF there are times when putting these to use (making sure you use a Light off hand weapon to minimize the penalty). However, make sure you also exit the Sacred stance, because you are not using a shield you will lose these benefits which are what you gain for not being able to "Rage". Turning off the stance while using these other fighting modes allows you to benefit from the Rage effects, turning sacred stance back on when you return to S&B mode.

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your attributes"

Strength 16 24
Dexterity 10 12
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 10 12
Wisdom 14 16
Charisma 16 27

The highest spell level a paladin has is 4th meaning you need at least 14 wisdom by 14th level to be able to cast these. This wisdom can be made up using tomes, buffs or gear.

It appears you plan to have at least +2 Tome during this life. This means you could potentially start with a 12 Wisdom and still have enough wisdom without gear at level 14 to cast your highest level spell. Example: using those 2 points from Wisdom in Intelligence would grant you during your life 23 additional Skill Points (1x4 at start and +1 from levels 2 to 20), your cost would be -1 will save and 10 Spell points based on starting at 14 wisdom.

Also don't try to do it all with skill point usage, it is better to focus; Balance is good but don't go to far, Jump/Tumble a single rank is enough buffs will easily take you to or very close to the upper limit, Intimidate for pulling agro, a little into heal to help power your spells and UMD for the Buffs (Especially buffs others cannot cast on you like Fireshield and Displacement)

[wasta]

Thank you so much Enoach. You are very helpful now I know what I need to change
thanks again ;]

[HastyPudding]

If you really want to go S&B, you can't go wrong with a doublestrike build. Get your shield feats for increased doublestrike with them, maybe improved shield bashing, power attack, cleave, great cleave, etc. Get 14 levels of paladin for the zeal spell (+10% doublestrike) and then take 6 levels of fighter. Through gear, enhancements, and epic destinies, you can have excellent survivability, good self healing, and a very high sustainable doublestrike bonus (I think my S&B paladin had a sustainable 32% doublestrike at level 26 before I TR'd him). Add in weapons such as bastard swords or dwarven axes (which have good synergy with shields) and you can dish out some decent damage; not top-of-the-line damage, but good enough while still maintaining a strong defense. Focus on doublestrike, healing amp, armor dexterity/dodge, and PRR; AC takes a backseat, as you'll get passable AC via armor/enhancements, but your main focus is doublestrike while equipping a shield.

It's the only way to play a S&B paladin, currently, in my opinion, and still be halfway viable.