I don't like that regular Bear and Wolf form become totally obsolete

[Adelair]

Maybe they could change the animal forms so that each one had some unique benefits to it. Something to balance them out. I think both wolf forms look good, hell, maybe they could make it so that the initial animal forms upgrade to get the same benefits as Winter Wolf and Dire Bear once they're unlocked. It's simply an aesthetic thing.

[FranOhmsford]

I don't like it that starting and finishing as the same character seems to be non-viable in DDO!

This goes far further than Druids but let's start here shall we....

1st let's ignore Multiclass Builds {read Monk Splashes} and concentrate on Pure Class for now.

2nd let's look at what we actually get in a Pure Druid:

a) Wolf or Bear Form - Doesn't matter, You'll get the other in a coupla levels time.

b) Water Ele or Fire Ele Form - Yup - You'll get the other a coupla levels down the line too!


Well how's about you actually enforce a choice Devs!

3rd let's look at what you could have given us:

A) Choose from Wolf or Bear Form at Lvl 1 - Removes access permanently to the other.

B} If you chose Wolf Form you now get Access to Water Elemental Form at Lvl 5 AND your Wolf Form upgrades to Dire Wolf and Winter Wolf versions at Lvls 10 and 15
If you chose Bear Form you now get Access to Fire Elemental Form at Lvl 5 AND your Bear Form upgrades to Dire Bear and Cave Bear versions at Lvls 10 and 15.

C) Wolf/Water Ele Form is now your DPS Druid {Melee or Caster}
Bear/Fire Ele Form is your Tank/Healer Druid.

Each gets it's own prestige - One concentrating on DPS {Both Melee and Spell} the other on Defenses, Buffs and Enhanced Healing Ability.



Your Melee Form and Your Caster Form would be fully swappable at any time and both should be viable from Lvl 5 {When you get your Caster Form} to Lvl 30!

[Fishcatch22]

I don't like it that starting and finishing as the same character seems to be non-viable in DDO!

This goes far further than Druids but let's start here shall we....

1st let's ignore Multiclass Builds {read Monk Splashes} and concentrate on Pure Class for now.

2nd let's look at what we actually get in a Pure Druid:

a) Wolf or Bear Form - Doesn't matter, You'll get the other in a coupla levels time.

b) Water Ele or Fire Ele Form - Yup - You'll get the other a coupla levels down the line too!


Well how's about you actually enforce a choice Devs!

3rd let's look at what you could have given us:

A) Choose from Wolf or Bear Form at Lvl 1 - Removes access permanently to the other.

B} If you chose Wolf Form you now get Access to Water Elemental Form at Lvl 5 AND your Wolf Form upgrades to Dire Wolf and Winter Wolf versions at Lvls 10 and 15
If you chose Bear Form you now get Access to Fire Elemental Form at Lvl 5 AND your Bear Form upgrades to Dire Bear and Cave Bear versions at Lvls 10 and 15.

C) Wolf/Water Ele Form is now your DPS Druid {Melee or Caster}
Bear/Fire Ele Form is your Tank/Healer Druid.

Each gets it's own prestige - One concentrating on DPS {Both Melee and Spell} the other on Defenses, Buffs and Enhanced Healing Ability.



Your Melee Form and Your Caster Form would be fully swappable at any time and both should be viable from Lvl 5 {When you get your Caster Form} to Lvl 30!Don't you think bundling wolf form with water ele and bear form with fire ele seems a little arbitrary? What would be wrong with providing the player a choice?

[Violith]

I don't like it that starting and finishing as the same character seems to be non-viable in DDO!

This goes far further than Druids but let's start here shall we....

1st let's ignore Multiclass Builds {read Monk Splashes} and concentrate on Pure Class for now.

2nd let's look at what we actually get in a Pure Druid:

a) Wolf or Bear Form - Doesn't matter, You'll get the other in a coupla levels time.

b) Water Ele or Fire Ele Form - Yup - You'll get the other a coupla levels down the line too!


Well how's about you actually enforce a choice Devs!

3rd let's look at what you could have given us:

A) Choose from Wolf or Bear Form at Lvl 1 - Removes access permanently to the other.

B} If you chose Wolf Form you now get Access to Water Elemental Form at Lvl 5 AND your Wolf Form upgrades to Dire Wolf and Winter Wolf versions at Lvls 10 and 15
If you chose Bear Form you now get Access to Fire Elemental Form at Lvl 5 AND your Bear Form upgrades to Dire Bear and Cave Bear versions at Lvls 10 and 15.

C) Wolf/Water Ele Form is now your DPS Druid {Melee or Caster}
Bear/Fire Ele Form is your Tank/Healer Druid.

Each gets it's own prestige - One concentrating on DPS {Both Melee and Spell} the other on Defenses, Buffs and Enhanced Healing Ability.



Your Melee Form and Your Caster Form would be fully swappable at any time and both should be viable from Lvl 5 {When you get your Caster Form} to Lvl 30!

Yea... that would be the worst thing they could do to druids. IF anything they should add more forms each with its own bonuses. druids had the ability to shapeshift, basically into anything possible. rather then restricting build options and lowering choices (Since, even with access to every form its still a choice of what you want to run in) it'd be better if they expanded on teh druids shapeshifting ability.

[Vellrad]

Elephant form or G.T.F.O.!

[bennyson]

I don't like it that starting and finishing as the same character seems to be non-viable in DDO!

This goes far further than Druids but let's start here shall we....

1st let's ignore Multiclass Builds {read Monk Splashes} and concentrate on Pure Class for now.

2nd let's look at what we actually get in a Pure Druid:

a) Wolf or Bear Form - Doesn't matter, You'll get the other in a coupla levels time.

b) Water Ele or Fire Ele Form - Yup - You'll get the other a coupla levels down the line too!


Well how's about you actually enforce a choice Devs!

3rd let's look at what you could have given us:

A) Choose from Wolf or Bear Form at Lvl 1 - Removes access permanently to the other.

B} If you chose Wolf Form you now get Access to Water Elemental Form at Lvl 5 AND your Wolf Form upgrades to Dire Wolf and Winter Wolf versions at Lvls 10 and 15
If you chose Bear Form you now get Access to Fire Elemental Form at Lvl 5 AND your Bear Form upgrades to Dire Bear and Cave Bear versions at Lvls 10 and 15.

C) Wolf/Water Ele Form is now your DPS Druid {Melee or Caster}
Bear/Fire Ele Form is your Tank/Healer Druid.

Each gets it's own prestige - One concentrating on DPS {Both Melee and Spell} the other on Defenses, Buffs and Enhanced Healing Ability.



Your Melee Form and Your Caster Form would be fully swappable at any time and both should be viable from Lvl 5 {When you get your Caster Form} to Lvl 30!

This, this is NOT a druid in D&D. Druids can transform into almost about any creature, I also don't remember the Druid class having any restrictions that prevents them from transforming into a different creature than what they pick for their first transformation. Your version of the Druid class WILL KILL player choice as well as being able to transform into a different creature when the situation demands it.

I WOULD LOVE to see additional transformation options though because I think Druids are able to transform into Earth Elementals as well as Air Elementals. Having those forms only available to Sorcerers kind of makes Druids not very...errr... "Druidic."

[MadGardener]

I agree the animal forms get quit redundant.
I dislike a few saying the work around is a little druid for dog form and a lot of monk....then u are not a druid u are a monk with dog breath :D

repost from general form hope it ok to place here

The "Bear" Druid

I believe, after two years and several updates to DDO, the Druid class required an update. The original vision of the class:

'The Druid was designated as a multi-option class, dps, tank, offensive caster and healer, with the idea that you would move in one direction but have flexibility to change (somewhat) to other rolls. The shape change is supposed to offer a very different feel on how they work, interact and function. They are ultimately masters of nature and from reviewing the update 15 new class announcement they are the guardians, and portal keeper'. This is a paraphrase and summary as I understood it.

Overview of suggestions focusing specifically on Nature’s Warden:

1) Increase base damage in animal forms as level increases;
2) Move the casting cool down from 2.5 to 1.5 as an enhancement option;
3) Lengthen the Vigor and Regenerate spells duration;
4) Add a new spell point reclamation feature, maybe called ``Elemental absorption``;
5) Additional 9th level spell;
6) Pet options.
7) Capstone

Details:

Natural attack base damage should scale. For example the animal form could be lesser bear, greater bear, lesser dire bear, greater dire bear, and maybe supreme dire bear as a capstone. You should only be able to pick one natural form as a class feat and it would increase as the number of levels of Druid increased.

The animal form are not only a stat increase but also were a size increase (larger base weapon category size, 4 legs bonus to forced movement includes trip, knockdown and pushes). The bear is big and it should have base damage step ups
Animal form at level 2 -> die 8 when the wild shape feat is taken,
level 5 1.5(die8).
Level 8 dire form grants current d12 base damage and normal stat bonus, add resistance to forced movement.
level 11 damage to 1.5(d12),
level 14 2(d12)
at level 17 2.5(d12)
and finally at level 20 3(d12) and a chance of a grapple attack effectively pinning the target for a few seconds.
Dog would have similar increases, less for damage, but melee attack speed instead and a chance of tendon slice effect.
Named weapons would apply an addition +1 to the critical multiplier.

Change the casting cool down from 2.5 to 1.5 as an enhancement option, particularly for defensive spells.

The Vigor and Regenerate spells need to last longer. Vigor spells should be in flat minute value and Regenerate should be the higher value and short increments based on level like displacement or haste.

A new feat or enhancement called ``elemental absorption`` should be added demonstrating how Druids are attuned to nature. For example, when a Druid is magically damaged they are rebated a small number of spell points back as a natural sacrifice. This feature would be truly unique and set the Druid apart from other classes

Elemental absorption would function similar to fire/cold shield but would be 30% elemental absorption with 60% to damage, and 10% spell points rebate. Quick example: A fire trap does 50 points 30 absorbed by a protection spell, if applicable. Of the remaining 20 points, 30% (6) would be absorbed by the shield, 60% (12) taken as damage, and 10% (2) rebated into spell points.

Same example using a 300 point fireball would be:
boat buff or spell elemental resistance (30) leaving 270 points
Shield (30%) -81
Damage (60%) -162
Rebate (10%) -27

Note: Absorption/damage/rebate could be affected by seasons.

A level 9 spell for the Bear would be appreciated as current there is none. I would suggest something like 'Nature Warrior': Calling forth spirits of fallen spirits to aid you. Your base becomes the same as a fighter of you level and you gain +1 to critical range for melee attacks
.
Another option would be a natural banish. A similar effect as turn undead, the druid could have an option to dismiss (area/mass) animal, vermin, magic beasts, or command the animal(s) to be passive on partial success unless it is successfully attacked.

Pet companions could have masters link, the pet receives/shares all healing and buffs cast on the owner, but based on the stance of the pet. Also a new pet ability might be snap arrow, snapping projectiles out of the air and tossing them harmlessly aside. This is to help keep the pet near and not running off getting into trouble without direct orders.

Capstone: Supreme Dire Bear spirit: True Beast Form -spirit claws and spirit form -take on the true nature of the animal form. You have become the master of the nature wardens drawing on the best nature and the spirits have to offer. In animal form you gain evasion, ghostly attacks and your shield and armour become one with the spirit plane (changes any armour and shield to spirit form 'changing the base material to 'spirit' you are considered un-armoured.

In summary, these are some ideas to focus the animal form of the Druid into a uniquely playable form as an alternative to some of the other melee classes. Thanks for taking the time to consider these suggestions.

Paws For the Cause

The Bear


I did post this in general but think that was the wrong spot. should have posted in the class forum :P
anyhow https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/428067-Time-for-the-Druid-bear-update is the general form location just paste the link here for continuity

[mkmcgw17]

Maybe they could change the animal forms so that each one had some unique benefits to it. Something to balance them out. I think both wolf forms look good, hell, maybe they could make it so that the initial animal forms upgrade to get the same benefits as Winter Wolf and Dire Bear once they're unlocked. It's simply an aesthetic thing.

I have a quite good bear tank that is in no way obsolete but is for party based play. Doesn't do much damage can stand in a hurricane and walk out alive.

[FestusHood]

Elephant form or G.T.F.O.!

Tyrannosaurus form!

[Red_Knight]

My main druid actually rarely shapeshifts right now. Why? Melee centric caster druid who uses flame blade for a weapon.

I do have another druid who's focused on animal forms more though. And I'd have to say "no, no, hell no" to being locked out of bear or wolf forms if you took the other one. And while I don't have the elemental forms yet, I'd have the same reaction to being locked out of one of those forever too. Why? Hmm, let me think for a moment. Some enemies have DR you need slashing or bludgening to get around, such as skeletons and zombies. Bear forms handle this nicely. Then there's some enemies who have DR of X/Pierce, which Wolf forms can handle. By denying wolf form if a person initially chose bear form... You take away this tool.

For elemental forms, it's similar. I'm fighting a bunch of fire immune enemies? Then I'm highly unlikely to cast any fire based spells. Thus fire elemental form would be kind of silly, right? Water Elemental form on the other hand would likely boost my spells, and offer access to spells which will be better against this enemy. And the opposite would apply if fighting things immune to cold, but weak to fire. You restrict me to one or the other as my only choice, you reduce my tools to deal with various situations.

And off topic, but aren't druids only able to shift into the forms of natural animals in PnP unless they go into the Wildshaper prestige class? Which means without the prestige class they can't become an elemental, or winter wolf, or dire bear. You know, since winter wolves and dire bears I believe are magical in nature. On the other hand, I had partied with a wildshaper druid in a PnP game who shapeshifted into a red dragon once.

[SirValentine]

I have a quite good bear tank that is in no way obsolete


So what does being in regular, plain, old, Bear form get you that you don't get in Dire Bear?

[Daine]

The current system tries to mimic pen and paper D&D, wherein a druid asking their DM to shapechange into a normal looking wolf that breaths fire and shoots ice cones when it farts just doesn't exist, so no you can't shapchange into that. A normal wolf will bite and claw. A winter wolf can have icy jaws so if you want to shapechange into a wolfy form with special abilities that's the one to go for.

Polymorph was pretty much the same, except you could change into a 'unique form', ie choose your appearance more acutely, but still stay within the species you've chosen etc.

Even a wish spell couldn't really produce such an effect as granting somone the form of a normal wolf but giving them the abilities of a winter wolf. You could at least try it on with a wish, but generally most DM's would 'pervert' your wish into something that would make you wish again to remove your last wish.

In general I support things that increase options in this game, such as the OP wanting the lower animal appearances but with the greater beast abilities. In this case though the rules are closer to pen and paper dungeon and dragons than normal and I'm quite happy with that.

TL;DR Shapechange is meant to have limitations

[bennyson]

Winter Wolves and Dire Bears are more powerful then the normal wolves and bears, which, to me, now makes more sense as to why these transformations are better. Here are some links for the PnP versions.

Wolf: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Wolf

Winter Wolf: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Winter_Wolf

Bear: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Brown_Bear

Dire Bear: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Dire_Bear

Note: I have no idea why a smiley face is there, all I did was copy the links.

[Munkenmo]

So what does being in regular, plain, old, Bear form get you that you don't get in Dire Bear?

Access to 6monk levels and 12 fighter levels.