Wizard: Drow or Iconic Elf

[Teh_Troll]

I'm too lazy to research this so I'll out-source it to my minions . . I mean fellow DDOers.

What're the pros/cons.

The Pay2Win part of the Iconic elf I can accept that I have to buy it, they LR out the Cleric Level . . . but the fact that I can be 20 much faster is kinda cool.

[ChemE]

I'm too lazy to research this so I'll out-source it to my minions . . I mean fellow DDOers.

What're the pros/cons.

The Pay2Win part of the Iconic elf I can accept that I have to buy it, they LR out the Cleric Level . . . but the fact that I can be 20 much faster is kinda cool.

I like this as well. You get the same +2 to intel that drows get and you keep 36 point build where drows get 32 point only. Not sure what you would do with the other 4 points since you can max intel and con on just the 32 points. I am leveling a drow pm now so when I' m through with that I may give this a try. Maybe some racial benefits as well. Not sure though.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I'd 100% go with the sun elf, due to the racial enhancements - rejuvenation of dawn for emergency healing & restoration stuff, blessing of amaunator for the combo divine buffs & feywild tap for the extra SP reserve are all rather handy things to have.

[ChemE]

Arcanum also gives extra sp and 1,2 and 3 to spell pen.

[Failedlegend]

Lol TT your calling Sun-Elves P2W thats hilarious...that Race is so useless its own enhancements are counter intuitive let alone trying to find any synergy with cleric.

Go Human...Wiz18/Rogue2 w/ Insightful reflexes Max Int/Con.

[Teh_Troll]

Go Human...Wiz18/Rogue2 w/ Insightful reflexes Max Int/Con.

No, that's a terrible idea. That's about 4 DCs behind what a sun-elf/drow can get.

I came here to get advice not give it, stop posting.

[Vellrad]

If you need to ask, go home.

[AlmGhandi]

I am sorry.
I keep getting stuck with Bladeforged.
(It hurts when I press too hard...)

[Teh_Troll]

If you need to ask, go home.

Hjeal meh.

[Vellrad]

Hjeal meh.

godienoob

[Teh_Troll]

godienoob

Oh wait . . . I forget this is for a Pale Master.

Hjarm Meh! :D

[Andoris]

I'm too lazy to research this so I'll out-source it to my minions . . I mean fellow DDOers.

What're the pros/cons.

The Pay2Win part of the Iconic elf I can accept that I have to buy it, they LR out the Cleric Level . . . but the fact that I can be 20 much faster is kinda cool.

Short answer:

Sun Elf
Pro: Same DC as Drow, Feywild tap for extra spell points, Few extra build points, start at level 15, Easy swap to more spell pen (if it is ever required), Sun Elf chicks are hot!

Con: Need to LR out of cleric level, At lvl 28 you can only Iconic TR or ETR, not ETR and TR, however; ETRs for wizards suck -- so it is not much of a Con (even more so if you have the heroic PLs you need)

I'll draft up a longer write up and add it to the PM guide later tonight or tomorrow. Personally, if you don't mind buying the LR, there is no reason not to go with Sun Elf (assuming DC caster). That being said, if you have a capped Drow Wizard, and aren't planning on TRing for other reasons, I don't think the advantages of Sun Elf make a TR worthwhile just for that -- of course YMMV.

[Teh_Troll]

Con: Need to LR out of cleric level, At lvl 28 you can only Iconic TR or ETR, not ETR and TR, however; ETRs for wizards suck -- so it is not much of a Con (even more so if you have the heroic PLs you need)

So once you go Iconic you can never go back?

[Vellrad]

So once you go Iconic you can never go back?

When u go iconic, u cant TR.
U must grind lvl28, grind/buy heart and ER or IR.
When u ER u must grind to 28 and ER/IR with new heart.
When u IR, u can be normal noob or iconic noob, as usual.

[HungarianRhapsody]

So once you go Iconic you can never go back?

You can go back, but you can only go back from 28, not from 20. At 28, you can Iconic TR and get a new race at level 1 and an Iconic past life + Epic past life *or* you can Epic TR and get just an Epic past life and go back to level 20.

[EllisDee37]

In a nutshell, sun elf gives all the benefits for wizards that drow gives and then some.

By "all the benefits" I mean literally all the exact same benefits.

[ChemE]

Is there any real advantage to 36 point build over 32? What would the extra points go in to?

[EllisDee37]

Is there any real advantage to 36 point build over 32? What would the extra points go in to?Not a whole lot. The two main choices would be 4 strength for more carrying capacity or 4 cha for +2 umd, and then 7 months go by and you realize you never actually used the umd skill.

[ChemE]

Anyone have a good picture of what a sun elf would look like compared to a male drow? I never have liked the way Drow look.

[Teh_Troll]

Is there any real advantage to 36 point build over 32? What would the extra points go in to?

Charisma. With some UMD and scroll mastery you can hjeal meh.

I'm only half-joking as I know a few wizards who have done that.

[Sokól]

Anyone have a good picture of what a sun elf would look like compared to a male drow? I never have liked the way Drow look.

Right there with the Halfling male, ugly as hell lol

[HungarianRhapsody]

Is there any real advantage to 36 point build over 32? What would the extra points go in to?

Dex for more AC!


Edit: oh, wait - that's for Sorcerers.

[AlmGhandi]

Right there with the Halfling male, ugly as hell lol

Hey!

[Sokól]

Hey!

Sorry dude, just my humble opinion...

[Failedlegend]

7 months go by and you realize you never actually used the umd skill.

My Harm Scrolls disagree with you

[EllisDee37]

My Harm Scrolls disagree with youI'd agree with your harm scrolls if I could acquire them at-will.

[ChemE]

My Harm Scrolls disagree with you

I have acquired exactly one of these in three years. I keep it in the bank just to prove to myself that they actually exist.

[Failedlegend]

I'd agree with your harm scrolls if I could acquire them at-will.


I have acquired exactly one of these in three years. I keep it in the bank just to prove to myself that they actually exist.

At-will no but as a PM you can meet a secret collector guy called "Dannato" he will trade Marks of the Keeper for Necro Scrolls I've got so many Neg Energy Burst Scrolls and Harm scrolls I've got little issue keeping myself up with em...mind you I'm a hoarder and had a massive load of them since I've\ been collecting them since Stormreach Unlimited

That said I'm very surprised that PMs didn't get Harm as a capstone or Tier 5 ability

[Satyriasys]

Anyone have a good picture of what a sun elf would look like compared to a male drow? I never have liked the way Drow look.

They look exactly the same only with warmer colors.

[Deathdefy]

It's 2 points of CON vs 1 point of UMD to me. Given that, my thinking is that drow is fine if you'd rather spend the TP for a Lesser Heart +1 on an Epic or Iconic Heart instead.

I found that I simply didn't have the AP to spend more then 8 points in the racial tree given the demands from Archmage and Pale Master. Obviously your build may differ, but I'd definitely check.

Also, remember the exit cost of playing an Iconic. If you want out, you have to get to cap, forfeit your opportunity for an Epic Past Life, and fork out 4200 commendations for the excellent Sun Elf past life.

[EllisDee37]

It's 2 points of CON vs 1 point of UMD to me. Given that, my thinking is that drow is fine if you'd rather spend the TP for a Lesser Heart +1 on an Epic or Iconic Heart instead.Con is the same for both. The main difference is that sun elf gets hundreds of more spell points per shrine.

[EllisDee37]

At-will no but as a PM you can meet a secret collector guy called "Dannato" he will trade Marks of the Keeper for Necro Scrolls I've got so many Neg Energy Burst Scrolls and Harm scrolls I've got little issue keeping myself up with em...mind you I'm a hoarder and had a massive load of them since I've\ been collecting them since Stormreach UnlimitedYou sure you can still do that? I believe the harm scrolls were removed from that technique a couple updates ago when they redid the collectors. (I think that technique may have been removed altogether, not just the harm scrolls.)

As a proof of concept, go acquire one single harm scroll from a repeatable source (no ah or trade channel) and then report back what resources you spent to get it.

[Deathdefy]

Con is the same for both. The main difference is that sun elf gets hundreds of more spell points per shrine.

Oh true! I forgot Sun Elf's -2 Con.

Yeah, I'd definitely go Drow then. I know on my wizard builds I never have the points to spend in the racial tree apart from the core upto +2 Int, though with a different build that could afford Arcanum somehow, I see the appeal.

[EllisDee37]

Yeah, I'd definitely go Drow then. I know on my wizard builds I never have the points to spend in the racial tree apart from the core upto +2 Int, though with a different build that could afford Arcanum somehow, I see the appeal.I wasn't talking about arcanum, but that is another 100 sp per shrine if you max it. (Which I wouldn't.)

I'm referring to Feywild Tap, which is worth something around 500 sp per shrine. Each use at epic levels gives you around 100 temporary spell points that last a minute, and you can use it 5 times per rest.

The only prereq is the enhancement line that also gives you +1 enchantment dc, which is good enough in its own right to be worth taking regardless.

The Sun Elf racial tree for a pale master ends up being:

6 AP cores (+2 int)
3 AP Enchantment Lore (+1 enchantment DC)
1 AP on whatever to meet the 10 AP "points in tree" prereq for feywild tap
3 AP on feywild tap
---
13 AP

It's 14 AP if you remove that 1 throwaway AP and replace it with the first rank of arcanum. There's not much in the PM or AM trees that's better bang for your buck than those 13 AP.

[Deathdefy]

I wasn't talking about arcanum, but that is another 100 sp per shrine if you max it. (Which I wouldn't.)

I'm referring to Feywild Tap, which is worth something around 500 sp per shrine. Each use at epic levels gives you around 100 temporary spell points that last a minute, and you can use it 5 times per rest.

The only prereq is the enhancement line that also gives you +1 enchantment dc, which is good enough in its own right to be worth taking regardless.

The Sun Elf racial tree for a pale master ends up being:

6 AP cores (+2 int)
3 AP Enchantment Lore (+1 enchantment DC)
1 AP on whatever to meet the 10 AP "points in tree" prereq for feywild tap
3 AP on feywild tap
---
13 AP

It's 14 AP if you remove that 1 throwaway AP and replace it with the first rank of arcanum. There's not much in the PM or AM trees that's better bang for your buck than those 13 AP.

Sure. That sounds very good if you can afford it.

I find 41 in Archmage for the Capstone and 32 in Pale Master for Lich is hard to pass up if you want the dps of Supremacy and max DC. But like I said, build dependant.

As I said, I'd go Drow due to the 4200 Commendation exit cost of Iconic, and Lesser Heart +1 cost to get pure in the first place for Iconics.

[EllisDee37]

Sure. That sounds very good if you can afford it.

I find 41 in Archmage for the Capstone and 32 in Pale Master for Lich is hard to pass up if you want the dps of Supremacy and max DC. But like I said, build dependant.Max DC in what?

Generally speaking you'll get max DC from:

41 Pale Master (capstone)
25 Archmage (school mastery, enervation SLA, +2 int)
9 drow or sun elf (+2 int, +1 enchantment DC)
---
75

Leaving 5 AP to play around with. That could either qualify for the full 14 AP in the sun elf tree for feywild tap +arcanum I, or maybe toss it into archmage for better elemental crits, or whatever.

Taking the archmage capstone (but sticking with PM tier 5s) costs you -1 enchantment DC compared to max. Taking AM to tier 5 with lich form costs you -1 to all DCs compared to max.

[Deathdefy]

Sure. That sounds very good if you can afford it.

I find 41 in Archmage for the Capstone and 32 in Pale Master for Lich is hard to pass up if you want the dps of Supremacy and max DC. But like I said, build dependant.

As I said, I'd go Drow due to the 4200 Commendation exit cost of Iconic, and Lesser Heart +1 cost to get pure in the first place for Iconics.


Max DC in what?

Generally speaking you'll get max DC from:

41 Pale Master (capstone)
25 Archmage (school mastery, enervation SLA, +2 int)
9 drow or sun elf (+2 int, +1 enchantment DC)
---
75

Leaving 5 AP to play around with. That could either qualify for the full 14 AP in the sun elf tree for feywild tap +arcanum I, or maybe toss it into archmage for better elemental crits, or whatever.

Taking the archmage capstone (but sticking with PM tier 5s) costs you -1 enchantment DC compared to max. Taking AM to tier 5 with lich form costs you -1 to all DCs compared to max.

Arcane Supremacy is good enough at suring up the one thing DC wizards are ordinarily terrible at - dps - that I'd struggle with not having it.

Again, again, again, it's build specific.

I'm sure the Lesser heart +1 and Iconic True Heart cost of an Iconic Sun Elf life could be justified on a build that didn't care about dps (e.g. a pure Mass Hold bot or a DC Necromancer that wasn't expected to help much on red names).

Personally, I run an Illusion focused wizard. I'd lose a DC in every school but Enchantment by taking the racial enhancements over Lich form, since I would be unwilling to seriously consider give up Arcane Supremacy on anything but a Necromancy build (which actually gains a DC by going T5 Pale Master).

[EllisDee37]

Arcane Supremacy is good enough at suring up the one thing DC wizards are ordinarily terrible at - dps - that I'd struggle with not having it. I dunno, it seems kinda meh to me. You still won't have sorc level dps. It ends up being worth somewhere between 5-10% extra dps over the long haul if I remember correctly. Not worth sacrificing 5% DC on a DC caster.

[Satyriasys]

Con is the same for both. The main difference is that sun elf gets hundreds of more spell points per shrine.
But you will have more build points on creation than a Drow so can put those points into con. So basically they're exactly like a Drow only with +2 con and -2 cha.

[EllisDee37]

But you will have more build points on creation than a Drow so can put those points into con. So basically they're exactly like a Drow only with +2 con and -2 cha.A third life drow gets the same con as a third life sun elf: max. (16) The difference is that the drow is left with no build points while a sun elf has four more to spend in either strength or charisma, both of which are kind of pointless. But nevertheless, it is indeed the same con, and sun elf gets more build points.

If you're on a first or second life, a sun elf does get +2 con compared to drow, though.

[MartinusWyllt]

You sure you can still do that? I believe the harm scrolls were removed from that technique a couple updates ago when they redid the collectors. (I think that technique may have been removed altogether, not just the harm scrolls.)

As a proof of concept, go acquire one single harm scroll from a repeatable source (no ah or trade channel) and then report back what resources you spent to get it.

Yeah, I don't see an update from this thread:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/412292

Specifically:


We are looking into new possibilities for Harming yourself, and possibly other self Inflicted Wounds.

[Panzermeyer]

You can go back, but you can only go back from 28, not from 20. At 28, you can Iconic TR and get a new race at level 1 and an Iconic past life + Epic past life *or* you can Epic TR and get just an Epic past life and go back to level 20.

So you can do an Iconic TR and still get an Epic Past Life Feat as well?

I thought it was one or the other? Am I wrong?

[Satyriasys]

So you can do an Iconic TR and still get an Epic Past Life Feat as well?

I thought it was one or the other? Am I wrong?

You are not wrong. You can Iconic TR and get a Iconic past life and Heroic past life

[SirValentine]

Max DC in what?
<snip>
Taking AM to tier 5 with lich form costs you -1 to all DCs compared to max.

Though Tier 5 AM with Vampire form gives you the best Enchantment DCs, doesn't it?

[EllisDee37]

Though Tier 5 AM with Vampire form gives you the best Enchantment DCs, doesn't it?Yes, but unimproved vampire form? Yucky! hehheh.

[nibel]

Though Tier 5 AM with Vampire form gives you the best Enchantment DCs, doesn't it?

It is very hard to ignore the +4 Int (+2 DC all-around) in the improved lich form. Up to level 17, enchantment vampire is the best DC you can achieve, but as soon as you get access to Lich, there is almost no reason to go back to any of the earlier forms. Even if you are not necro-specced.

Comparing:

Vampire with Archmage T5: +4 Enchantment DC, +1 Necro, triple light damage
Improved Lich with Archmage Enchantment T4: +4 Int (+2 general DC), +1 Necro, +1 Enchantment, double light damage

Basically, you are trading +1 enchantment DC for +2 non-enchantment DC and less light damage.

[bsquishwizzy]

Though Tier 5 AM with Vampire form gives you the best Enchantment DCs, doesn't it?

Up until you meet a caster that spams light spells, and then you become a crispy critter.

And when I say "a caster" it usually means all of them past lvl 10...

[bsquishwizzy]

I say go Sun Elf.

I mean, after all, who wants to play a race that looks like it lost a fight with a purple Magic Marker...?

[EllisDee37]

Pretty sure SirValentine wasn't actually suggesting to run in vampire form, just pointing out the theoretical max enchantment dc.

[Deathdefy]

I dunno, it seems kinda meh to me. You still won't have sorc level dps. It ends up being worth somewhere between 5-10% extra dps over the long haul if I remember correctly. Not worth sacrificing 5% DC on a DC caster.

Just to be clear; on every caster but Necromancy spec casters you're 'sacrificing' only 1 Enchantment DC. If you are Illusion spec that's not a problem.

Right now I'm giving serious consideration to a Transmutation spec caster to make EE What Goes Up trivial. It's a bit too one-tricky even for me, but it's not like the other schools have unusable DCs.

You also get Master of Magic, which is nice.

"5 - 10% extra dps over the long haul" might be true if you keep an identical rotation while Supremacy is active... which doesn't seem smart to me.

I'm unsure where that stat is from, or what the actual stat is, but my experience in time taken soloing the end boss of EE BoB suggests a larger difference in raw dps.

I also know from fun in EE BoB (which is my testing ground for rotations, etc) that Supremacy gives an opportunity to change the SP: damage dealt efficiency of a wizard to a drastic degree.

Anyway this insistence that "Tier 5 of AM is so terrible that no DC caster should ever take it and therefore Sun Elf is better than Drow" is crazy (If that paraphrasing is somehow unfair, feel free to correct it).

There are builds where that is not the case. I play some of those builds.

Ignoring the costs of a Lesser Heart +1 to get pure, and the exit cost and lost opportunity of requiring an Iconic TR instead of an Epic TR then HTR, is also silly. To me, unless you're 100% iron clad definitely doing this is as your final life, especially with the recent advent of Epic Past Lives many of which would be nice if not crucial on a wizard, it's something that heavily detracts from the comparison.

Try either or both of Arcane Supremacy or a non-Necromancy specced Wizard and you almost undoubtedly will appreciate 41 / 31 / 6 + 2 somewhere is a superior split on some builds. On those builds, going Sun Elf does not make sense.

On non-definitely-final-life builds it also doesn't make sense except in theory land. I concede we're sort of in theory land now, but I think we walked here from practical advice land and should go back.

[Andoris]

Right now I'm giving serious consideration to a Transmutation spec caster to make EE What Goes Up trivial. It's a bit too one-tricky even for me, but it's not like the other schools have unusable DCs.


Enchantment or Necro spec'd PM makes EE WGU trivial. I am happy to take any group as long as they can do somewhat decent DPS (just don't want to take forever or drink a bunch of pots) up there with my PM. Success is never a question, just how long it will take / how many pots I have to drink. If I have a good group, pot usage = 0.. the worse the dps of the rest of the party.. the higher that number (or the time to complete) goes.

I am not sure what Transmutation would make that any easier

[Deathdefy]

Enchantment or Necro spec'd PM makes EE WGU trivial. I am happy to take any group as long as they can do somewhat decent DPS (just don't want to take forever or drink a bunch of pots) up there with my PM. Success is never a question, just how long it will take / how many pots I have to drink. If I have a good group, pot usage = 0.. the worse the dps of the rest of the party.. the higher that number (or the time to complete) goes.

I am not sure what Transmutation would make that any easier

You sound very good. Was thinking Flesh to Stoning all respawning mobs.

[EllisDee37]

"5 - 10% extra dps over the long haul" might be true if you keep an identical rotation while Supremacy is active... which doesn't seem smart to me.

I'm unsure where that stat is from, or what the actual stat is, but my experience in time taken soloing the end boss of EE BoB suggests a larger difference in raw dps.
Back of the napkin calculations of the enhancement description, so take it with a medium-sized rock of salt.


Ignoring the costs of a Lesser Heart +1 to get pure, and the exit cost and lost opportunity of requiring an Iconic TR instead of an Epic TR then HTR, is also silly.
[...]
On non-definitely-final-life builds it also doesn't make sense except in theory land. I concede we're sort of in theory land now, but I think we walked here from practical advice land and should go back.Those stipulations are not theory, they're part of the premise of the thread. Specifically, what is best for a final-life DC pale master for teh_troll, who stipulated that he doesn't care about those costs.

[Deathdefy]

The Pay2Win part of the Iconic elf I can accept that I have to buy it, they LR out the Cleric Level . . . but the fact that I can be 20 much faster is kinda cool.



Those stipulations are not theory, they're part of the premise of the thread. Specifically, what is best for a final-life DC pale master for teh_troll, who stipulated that he doesn't care about those costs.

The exit cost of 4200 commendations for an Iconic PL instead of an Epic PL wasn't - and is more expensive than the LR +1 - but I'm being a pedant now so true enough. Neither was 'final life' but yes. Onward to more exciting threads.

[EllisDee37]

The exit cost of 4200 commendations for an Iconic PL instead of an Epic PL wasn't - and is more expensive than the LR +1 - but I'm being a pedant now so true enough. Neither was 'final life' but yes. Onward to more exciting threads.Not sure how an iconic heart factors in. You need an iconic heart to TR out of an iconic, not into. So a final life sun elf never needs to acquire a single iconic heart. (Do drow lives until last one as a sun elf.)

[bennyson]

Lol TT your calling Sun-Elves P2W thats hilarious...that Race is so useless its own enhancements are counter intuitive let alone trying to find any synergy with cleric.

Go Human...Wiz18/Rogue2 w/ Insightful reflexes Max Int/Con.

The Sun Elf race is, hands down, the BEST race for a Wizard if you don't mind paying a little extra money to remove the cleric class through a +1 Lesser Heart of Wood.

Sun Elves start with a base of 10 Intelligence, like the Drow, however, Drow racial tree is inferior to the Sun Elf tree by three things.

1. Sun Elf racial tree gets the Arcanum enhancement, which gives +100 sp and +3 extra spell pen at max rank.

2. Sun Elf racial tree gets the Rejuvenation of Dawn, which is like Unyielding Sovereignty, but can only be used twice per rest and has a shorter cooldown. (180 seconds(3 minutes) compare to 300 seconds(5 minutes))

3. Sun Elf racial tree gets the Blessing of Amaunator, which gives Mass Aid, Mass Deathward, and Mass Spell Resistance at max rank, these are Divine buffs.

The Drow racial tree does NOT have any of these. The Drow are still, however, the best race for a Sorcerer due to their 10 CHA.

The Human racial tree is also inferior to Sun Elf as well, the only difference between a Human and a Sun Elf is an extra feat, which many experienced players don't care about. Going 18 wiz/2 rog is too great as you WILL BE a weaker caster than someone who has gone pure wizy.

[danbevj]

Has anyone seen any discussion if any plans to offer Sun Elf as a race (purchase or otherwise) as a non-Iconic option?

[Teh_Troll]

found a +1 heart on a mule, went Sun Elf. Looks like a complete no brainer with the whole +3 Spell pen, more SP, higher INT.

Pay2win beaches!

[voodoogroves]

found a +1 heart on a mule, went Sun Elf. Looks like a complete no brainer with the whole +3 Spell pen, more SP, higher INT.

Pay2win beaches!

+1 enchant DCs
access (if you want) to some pretty decent buffs (DW at a high CL) - though on a PM less useful ...
plus, not drow ... and you can spend AP on better SR anyway (paired w/ the DW)

[bennyson]

found a +1 heart on a mule, went Sun Elf. Looks like a complete no brainer with the whole +3 Spell pen, more SP, higher INT.

Pay2win beaches!

Sounds like your enjoying it!

[Vellrad]

Sounds like your enjoying it!

This can't be true, the game is terrible and can't be enjoyed, its a fact.

[JOTMON]

I'd 100% go with the sun elf, due to the racial enhancements - rejuvenation of dawn for emergency healing & restoration stuff, blessing of amaunator for the combo divine buffs & feywild tap for the extra SP reserve are all rather handy things to have.

Except it has a 3 minute cool down per use, so if you have 2 uses you cant use the 2nd one until it cools down and then cant use either again until you shrine.
It wasn't removing death penalties when I used it...
and 10,000hp... who cares... no player or even WF with terrible healing amp has any use for this big of a heal.

similar to Unyielding Sovereignty that has has a 10 minute cool down and unlimited uses.. no shrine required.
as an emergency heal I found it less than useful, since in those situations I am not looking for a hardly used clicky on my hotbar.

~
Rejuvenation of Dawn: Activate: Heals 10,000 hit point damage, and removes all ability damage, death penalty effects, negative levels, and the conditions blinded, dazed, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, poisoned, and stunned.
This ability can be used once per rest.
Tier 2: This ability can be used on yourself or an ally, and you get an additional use per rest. (Cooldown: 3 minutes)
~

~
Unyielding Sovereignty
You are a devoted follower of the Silver Flame, and your faith has been rewarded. Activate this ability to fully heal hit point damage done to a targetted ally, remove ability damage, death penalty effects, negative levels, and the conditions blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, poisoned, and stunned.
~




Sun Elf as a cleric Iconic is stupid in my opinion it has a poor synergy with Cleric.
Sun Elf is an Int based racial subtype and is it better suited as a Wizard for stat orientation. ( I believe that was also the favoured choice in classic DnD)
The class enhancements would even have worked nicely with rogue or wiz/rogue..

Moon Elf or even a cool Winged Elf (can you say teaser for a shavarath expansion) should have been the orientation for an Iconic Cleric class..



found a +1 heart on a mule, went Sun Elf. Looks like a complete no brainer with the whole +3 Spell pen, more SP, higher INT.

Pay2win beaches!

Now I know who to bring along when I am level draining myself with my monk finisher... Deathward meh... hjeal meh... nvm.. carry my stone to the end so I can loot the chest...

[bennyson]

This can't be true, the game is terrible and can't be enjoyed, its a fact.

I said that because it sounds like from his post that he is enjoying his new wizard as a Sun Elf.

Another thing, there are many different ways to enjoy DDO. Each and every person does it differently, saying that it cant be enjoyed by anyone as a fact is an understatement. The only way it can be a fact is that you have solid core proof and that you had EVERY SINGLE player on ALL THE GAME SERVERS agree with you, both newbis and experienced players.

[Teh_Troll]

This can't be true, the game is terrible and can't be enjoyed, its a fact.

I find the game very enjoyable, when you hjeal meh.

[DogMania]

well im not sure on Wizard Drow but Iconic elf (after using a +1 lr to get rid of the cleric) gave me 4 more Intel than what I had as a normal elf. Also my points went into Intel Max, Con - Max and the rest into Dex.

[Hanji]

does it matter when you use the stone? what do you loose when you use it.

thanks in advance for your help

[bennyson]

does it matter when you use the stone? what do you loose when you use it.

thanks in advance for your help

You loose nothing if your making a Sun Elf wizy

Keeping that pathetic level 1 cleric thing is kinda a waste.

[anivaj]

Charisma. With some UMD and scroll mastery you can hjeal meh.

I'm only half-joking as I know a few wizards who have done that.

I LOVE UMD and I do max scroll mastery. Wizards who say they have never used UMD in the past few months are definitelty NOT team players. I have thrown numerous rezzes, heals, greater restores, etc on my teammates running with no divine. I would dump spellcraft before UMD, and I would NOT dump spellcraft :p

On the OP's question. I prefer Sun Elf. The +1 enchant DC and +3 to spell pen when needed for drow EEs is invaluable. (this coming from a player with all Spell Pen PLs), and the +4 charisma (+2 UMD) is just gravy.

[Teh_Troll]

I LOVE UMD and I do max scroll mastery. Wizards who say they have never used UMD in the past few months are definitelty NOT team players. I have thrown numerous rezzes, heals, greater restores, etc on my teammates running with no divine. I would dump spellcraft before UMD, and I would NOT dump spellcraft :p

On the OP's question. I prefer Sun Elf. The +1 enchant DC and +3 to spell pen when needed for drow EEs is invaluable. (this coming from a player with all Spell Pen PLs), and the +4 charisma (+2 UMD) is just gravy.

I've actually added Reconstruct to my spell book on my Sun Elf. There are more than enough BF melee that it's not a terrible idea.

[SirValentine]

I've actually added Reconstruct to my spell book on my Sun Elf. There are more than enough BF melee that it's not a terrible idea.

Hjrecon meh!

[Uska]

Has anyone seen any discussion if any plans to offer Sun Elf as a race (purchase or otherwise) as a non-Iconic option?

haven't seen anything on any of the Iconic races being talked about as a non-iconic option

[EllisDee37]

I LOVE UMD and I do max scroll mastery. Wizards who say they have never used UMD in the past few months are definitelty NOT team players. I have thrown numerous rezzes, heals, greater restores, etc on my teammates running with no divine. I would dump spellcraft before UMD, and I would NOT dump spellcraft :pI've said I don't use umd on my wizard. As for your examples, I raise with my greensteel mana item, which has a clickie. For heal scrolls, if you can't heal yourself by the time I notice you need an emergency heal, swap to the heal scroll, and actually cast the heal scroll, you probably died anyway. For greater restoration, don't you have visors?

I used to max umd, and could and would heal scroll, but I found that in almost every case it was more effective to cc/instakill the danger instead of trying to heal scroll you through it.

If (when! *stamps feet*) they add harm scrolls to a vendor for plat I'll go back to maxing umd. Until then, I feel the utility just isn't there.

[Iriale]

I prefer drow. Both races give same int and the +1 DC to enchantaments (winner points of these races). 36 points or 32 with +2 dex & car are the same for me. With both i can max int and con. I UMD ok and don’t need more str. Arcanum and feywild tap are nice, but too costly—with these cost I don’t want them. Rejuvenation of dawn is a waste of APs for me.

So, Drow don’t need a +1 LR… drow wins.

[anivaj]

I've said I don't use umd on my wizard. As for your examples, I raise with my greensteel mana item, which has a clickie. For heal scrolls, if you can't heal yourself by the time I notice you need an emergency heal, swap to the heal scroll, and actually cast the heal scroll, you probably died anyway. For greater restoration, don't you have visors?

I used to max umd, and could and would heal scroll, but I found that in almost every case it was more effective to cc/instakill the danger instead of trying to heal scroll you through it.

If (when! *stamps feet*) they add harm scrolls to a vendor for plat I'll go back to maxing umd. Until then, I feel the utility just isn't there.

This completely tells me that you run exclusively in guild or channel groups for EE. I pug....and when you pug, you don't expect every team member to cover all the bases. I enjoy helping newer players get EE completions and gear. To me, I feel better completing with a poor group then running with a ton of FOTM OP builds to easy completions and no teamwork. Just my personal preference.....

[EllisDee37]

This completely tells me that you run exclusively in guild or channel groups for EE. I pug....and when you pug, you don't expect every team member to cover all the bases. I enjoy helping newer players get EE completions and gear. To me, I feel better completing with a poor group then running with a ton of FOTM OP builds to easy completions and no teamwork. Just my personal preference.....I don't run EE at all.