Obtaining Iconic and Epic Hearts - Dear Devs...

[xaul17]

Hello, I wanted to throw out there my thoughts on the new system for epic reincarnation.
Foremost, I've encountered little problems thus far with the reincarnation itself thus far, and I wanted to say that very much like what was done with it. My issue is getting the hearts to do it...

So imagine this: Lets pretend this system was in place a few years ago, back when collecting epic tokens was the only way to go. MotU has just launched, so you are given the choices to run the different difficulties EN, EH, and EE to get the fragments. You finish your first quest excitedly, then find yourself at the giver again to see what your reward is. You are then given the choice between the following...

.07 Epic Fragments -or- 500 Guild Renown

That does not seem like very much. You look over your other choices on the list, and find there are a couple of nice swords that would net you some plat on the AH if you took them. What would you take?

Now think about the current new system with the Epic and Iconic hearts. Running 1 quest in EGH just netted me 16 comms... At first we nod our heads and think 'hey, not too terrible I suppose,' but in comparison, 16 commedations of valor of over 4000 is only about as much as .07 token fragments of 20.00. With use of this new system, now we start to think... this may take a while.

Not to mention... In the old system, you gain the fragments in addition to loot, guild renown and potential as some very rare drops. In the new system, you have to choose 'do I take this very small boost to help me get an Epic Heart?' or 'do I take 500 guild renown to help level my guild faster?'

I know the change was quite sudden, as the original plan (as I heard anyway) was to allow comms to drop as saga rewards, but I would advise you guys to think about changing this, and ASAP.

So here are my ideas:
- Place the commendations in the epic chests for the old epic quests, in addition to the fragments
- Create new epic chests in the newer content, guaranteeing at least some commendations in addition to the items that already have a chance at dropping there, replacing the current end chest if needed
- Allow commendations to be given as a saga reward so players can choose them if they want them
- Keep the commendations in the end reward lists (as they are currently) so that players CAN get that small boost, if nothing else seems useful.

Now I know I don't really have much to say on the forums normally, but I wanted to get my point across this time. If anyone else has a solution that they think would work better, or if anyone has any comments to add, please let me know (and please, do not say 'go buy a heart from the DDO store. We can do that for HR too, so that is besides the point of this thread).

And Devs - Please consider changing this system, and soon. Please, please and thank you.

[Krelar]

Your math is off.

16 commendations of valor out of 4200 is approximately .07 Epic Tokens out of 20 or 7 epic fragments out of the 2000 needed to make 20 tokens. (It would actually round closer to 8 than 7)

It may still take awhile but it's 100 times less than what you show. :D

[TrinityTurtle]

Here's the thing. IF everything was free and easy in the game, Turbine would be screwed. They are a business, like the one I work for, and every other player who has a job works for. If everything is free, the business folds and goes away. They have to set up a system in a delicate balance of not ****ing off the masses and giving a free option for a time investment, vs, making an attractive purchase to avoid the time investment.

If you look around the forums long enough, you'll see plenty of threads and posts by people who think being vip is worthless, stupid, or financially foolish. You'll see posts telling people how to get the most out of the barest minimum investment. And so does Turbine. I don't know the metrics, how many vips there are and how many premiums, but I do know that every company banks on regular steady income (Vips). And that burst income, while a great asset, can also hit dry spots a company can potentially not survive.

We as players tend to look to what we want, but we don't often consider the other side. The side that has to pay for servers, bandwidth, employees, insurances, taxes, shareholders, supplies, utilities, web & forum costs, legalities, and whatever else goes into a game like this. And Turbine in particular faces a small brigade of regular posters who seem intent on not only not spending their own money for their entertainment, but also that the rest of us don't either.

[Gljosh]

Here's the thing. IF everything was free and easy in the game, Turbine would be screwed. They are a business, like the one I work for, and every other player who has a job works for. If everything is free, the business folds and goes away. They have to set up a system in a delicate balance of not ****ing off the masses and giving a free option for a time investment, vs, making an attractive purchase to avoid the time investment.

If you look around the forums long enough, you'll see plenty of threads and posts by people who think being vip is worthless, stupid, or financially foolish. You'll see posts telling people how to get the most out of the barest minimum investment. And so does Turbine. I don't know the metrics, how many vips there are and how many premiums, but I do know that every company banks on regular steady income (Vips). And that burst income, while a great asset, can also hit dry spots a company can potentially not survive.

We as players tend to look to what we want, but we don't often consider the other side. The side that has to pay for servers, bandwidth, employees, insurances, taxes, shareholders, supplies, utilities, web & forum costs, legalities, and whatever else goes into a game like this. And Turbine in particular faces a small brigade of regular posters who seem intent on not only not spending their own money for their entertainment, but also that the rest of us don't either.

I would be happier, if the number was 4,000 and not 4,200. Heroic TR hearts are 2,000 Epic Fragments and pretty easy to get with some quests dropping 20~100 fragments. Comms are showing up at roughly 8~20 and you need twice as many. I get the fiscal side or easy button. BUT you could sell more Iconics if you made their style of TR a little less painful. I doubt too many people are super gung ho about buying an iconic race and then buying Iconic TR hearts.

[RobbinB]

Here's the thing. IF everything was free and easy in the game, Turbine would be screwed. They are a business, like the one I work for, and every other player who has a job works for. If everything is free, the business folds and goes away. They have to set up a system in a delicate balance of not ****ing off the masses and giving a free option for a time investment, vs, making an attractive purchase to avoid the time investment.

If you look around the forums long enough, you'll see plenty of threads and posts by people who think being vip is worthless, stupid, or financially foolish. You'll see posts telling people how to get the most out of the barest minimum investment. And so does Turbine. I don't know the metrics, how many vips there are and how many premiums, but I do know that every company banks on regular steady income (Vips). And that burst income, while a great asset, can also hit dry spots a company can potentially not survive.

We as players tend to look to what we want, but we don't often consider the other side. The side that has to pay for servers, bandwidth, employees, insurances, taxes, shareholders, supplies, utilities, web & forum costs, legalities, and whatever else goes into a game like this. And Turbine in particular faces a small brigade of regular posters who seem intent on not only not spending their own money for their entertainment, but also that the rest of us don't either.

So your argument is that Turbine has to make the game unfun (ie. grinding hearts) in order to stay in business, or that if Turbine kept the game fun (eg. more endgame content and less barriers to things like tr's and class changes) and gave more incentives for going VIP they could not only stay in business but remove the grindy monotonous hamster-wheel of current endgame?