CITW gear is going to be back up gear

[mcalm3000]

CITW weapons are min level 23. The developers plan on making the endgame at level 30 and cementing that with a raid. One would hope that min level 30 raid gear outstrips level 23 raid gear. So don't plan your lives around CITW weapons. Look at how powerful the random level 28 loot gen is.

[Draxis]

CITW weapons are min level 23. The developers plan on making the endgame at level 30 and cementing that with a raid. One would hope that min level 30 raid gear outstrips level 23 raid gear. So don't plan your lives around CITW weapons. Look at how powerful the random level 28 loot gen is.

Either that or more comms and more upgrades. Or it could be all legendary armors to go with our legendary weapons. Who knows.

Personally, I'd LOVE if the new raid didn't include weapons and instead the random loot at lvl 30 COULD potentially be better than a legendary weapon, if you're lucky.

That'd make end-game vendor trash less trashy, at least.

[DemonStorm333]

Either that or more comms and more upgrades. Or it could be all legendary armors to go with our legendary weapons. Who knows.

Personally, I'd LOVE if the new raid didn't include weapons and instead the random loot at lvl 30 COULD potentially be better than a legendary weapon, if you're lucky.

That'd make end-game vendor trash less trashy, at least.

don't worry lvl 28 will remain he lvl cap till next summer so ther still pleny of time and this raid coming in jan feb is just a lvl 28 raid so don't worry

[Capricorpus]

They're undoubtedly planning on cementing it with multiple raids, and that's what they should do.

CitW items will probably be phased out, although it might take a while for every single type of weapon to have a better equivalent. That's the way it should be - level 23 gear shouldn't function as "endgame" gear when the level cap will be 30. However, many weapons (Celestia in particular) could still fill niches, and they would undoubtedly remain legitimate options to use either while leveling or while trying to get something better.

It would be pretty silly for them to give at least one (two, for many people) free weapon if those weapons were going to remain top tier items for the long term.



Personally, I'd LOVE if the new raid didn't include weapons and instead the random loot at lvl 30 COULD potentially be better than a legendary weapon, if you're lucky.

That'd make end-game vendor trash less trashy, at least.

That seems silly to me. I'm of the opinion that named raid weapons should exist, and they should be significantly better than anything you can get from a random chest, because that's what raid weapons exist for. Why run difficult raids if you could get lucky in some random quest?

[FranOhmsford]

CitW items will probably be phased out, although it might take a while for every single type of weapon to have a better equivalent. That's the way it should be - level 23 gear shouldn't function as "endgame" gear when the level cap will be 30.


How's about Lvl 12 gear functioning as End-Game when the Cap was 20?

Still waiting on Epic Shroud - Guessing the Devs are planning on sticking it at Cap 30!

[Vellrad]

Web weapons will become what GS is now: TR twink items.

[maddmatt70]

OP this goes without saying that CITW weapons will not be end game weapons. Update 21's raid will almost certainly have better weapons then CITW weapons. The question will be which of the weapons will not be surpassed at least with update 21, but not until this summer.

[Shorlong]

don't worry lvl 28 will remain he lvl cap till next summer so ther still pleny of time and this raid coming in jan feb is just a lvl 28 raid so don't worry

Glin confirmed the raid releasing with U21 will in fact be level 30.

[Capricorpus]

How's about Lvl 12 gear functioning as End-Game when the Cap was 20?

Still waiting on Epic Shroud - Guessing the Devs are planning on sticking it at Cap 30!


Even though you saw (and still see) people running around with GS weapons at relatively high levels, that doesn't make it endgame gear.

People being unsuccessful at getting an eSoS or an eAGA didn't (and doesn't) render their gimpy GS weapons any less gimpy for a level 20 character.

[Atremus]

Think of all the new Iconics that still need a 45HP GS item or a 3x PoS undead item.... The same can be said for CiTW. Those that miss out on boxes will still want Pionions, Cleavers and maybe Twiligts. While some of the raid gear is outdated, not all of it is. Backup gear or not, the raid will still be run, lag and all

[FranOhmsford]

Even though you saw (and still see) people running around with GS weapons at relatively high levels, that doesn't make it endgame gear.

People being unsuccessful at getting an eSoS or an eAGA didn't (and doesn't) render their gimpy GS weapons any less gimpy for a level 20 character.

And I suppose you're going to say the same about ConcOPP and all the rest of it eh?


Honestly CitW Seems to be more like VoD/HoX/Reaver's than Shroud but the fact is there that the Devs have provided Insanely powerful ostensibly low level items before that could be used at cap...

What's the betting that Pinion for example is Never Surpassed a la ESoS?

[mcalm3000]

I just realized that with level 30 characters using level 30 gear, CITW will be much much faster and hence less annoying. That is worth applauding.

[Grecan]

CITW weapons are min level 23. The developers plan on making the endgame at level 30 and cementing that with a raid. One would hope that min level 30 raid gear outstrips level 23 raid gear. So don't plan your lives around CITW weapons. Look at how powerful the random level 28 loot gen is.

My advice would be to never plan any character based on any particular weapon... but rather try to get the best weapons that fit your character.

[mcalm3000]

On that note, I am even more casual just enjoy the game and contribute graciously to each party you join. Being a solid player that helps beats the Uberkiller jerk every day of the week. Just enjoy playing. Far too many people grind too intensely and lose the joy of playing.

[Avenging_Angel]

I just realized that with level 30 characters using level 30 gear, CITW will be much much faster and hence less annoying. That is worth applauding.

Because the length of the raid is due to dps and not to the running around and herding mobs (and players) around for the final island.

[Teh_Troll]

Look at how powerful the random level 28 loot gen is.

My Balizardes laugh at this statement.

My Nightmares are hiding in shame.

[Chai]

Why would they give us weapons ONLY? How about dropping stuff for all slots, or a crafting system we can use to craft stuff for all slots. There doesnt need to be more weapon power creep, there needs to be more ways to slot all of the things each build wants to slot so each time we get a better item we dont feel like we are on the losing side of an epic elite game of gear tetris.

[Draxis]

That seems silly to me. I'm of the opinion that named raid weapons should exist, and they should be significantly better than anything you can get from a random chest, because that's what raid weapons exist for. Why run difficult raids if you could get lucky in some random quest?

To you, maybe. But why even have random weapons if they're guaranteed to be trash compared to an easily-farmed raid weapon? Why not just put the equivalent plat in chests?

And why run difficult raids if you can't get a better weapon for it? How about for the chance to get a better accessory, or an item for any of the other myriad of slots on your toon?

[Chai]

That seems silly to me. I'm of the opinion that named raid weapons should exist, and they should be significantly better than anything you can get from a random chest, because that's what raid weapons exist for. Why run difficult raids if you could get lucky in some random quest?

Because people start complaining about the best stuff only being accessible to a smaller portion of the games population.

Also, random quest loot can be sold on the A$AH. Raid weapons cannot (yet) be sold there. If people are willing to pay for best in slot items, Turbine will make money on this, but that means some best in slot items need to drop from quests.

[voxson5]

Why would they give us weapons ONLY? How about dropping stuff for all slots, or a crafting system we can use to craft stuff for all slots. There doesn't need to be more weapon power creep, there needs to be more ways to slot all of the things each build wants to slot so each time we get a better item we dont feel like we are on the losing side of an epic elite game of gear tetris.

I would prefer an upgraded recipe system that uses ingredients from other raids and even collectables. That way there is not a silly new wad of items to figure out how to store, promotion of seldom run raids (Titan, maybe CiTW now etc).

I would really like some form of autonomy and discovery in creation though. The ages 3+ barter system isnt quite my thing (although I will admit it does work nicely for certain game elements)

Having to spend time and effort in game to work out ingredient recipes? That would be folly.
(However that is just snarky dig a result of the child friendly barter box system they implemented)

[Teh_Troll]

Epic shroud would be a better end-game than this ETR hamster-wheel.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Even though you saw (and still see) people running around with GS weapons at relatively high levels, that doesn't make it endgame gear.

People being unsuccessful at getting an eSoS or an eAGA didn't (and doesn't) render their gimpy GS weapons any less gimpy for a level 20 character.

And when you consider that the eSoS is still the #1 best-in-slot weapon in the game for a wide variety of circumstances, that's a pretty good indication that some old weapons are still top notch. If the eSoS hadn't been de-powered a few years ago, nothing would be even remotely close to it for most combats.

I will say that it will be nice to have two and a half raids for the end game instead of the current one and a half raids that we have today.

[HungarianRhapsody]

I would prefer an upgraded recipe system that uses ingredients from other raids and even collectables. That way there is not a silly new wad of items to figure out how to store, promotion of seldom run raids (Titan, maybe CiTW now etc).

I would really like some form of autonomy and discovery in creation though. The ages 3+ barter system isnt quite my thing (although I will admit it does work nicely for certain game elements)

Having to spend time and effort in game to work out ingredient recipes? That would be folly.
(However that is just snarky dig a result of the child friendly barter box system they implemented)

/signed

Shroud is still the best raid loot system that they've ever developed. And still one of the best raids for game play (Abbot is still #1 as far as I'm concerned).

[HungarianRhapsody]

To you, maybe. But why even have random weapons if they're guaranteed to be trash compared to an easily-farmed raid weapon? Why not just put the equivalent plat in chests?

So that you have something to swing until you get that raid weapon.

[Draxis]

So that you have something to swing until you get that raid weapon.

Puh-lease. Every toon I've run through CiTW has gotten their weapon of choice within 10 runs. And everyone I see who hasn't gotten their weapon yet is using a GS.

RNG weapons are virtually useless past lvl 16, save for the odd smiter.

[Atremus]

Puh-lease. Every toon I've run through CiTW has gotten their weapon of choice within 10 runs. And everyone I see who hasn't gotten their weapon yet is using a GS.

RNG weapons are virtually useless past lvl 16, save for the odd smiter.

What undead beater are you using on the dragon in FoT? GS handwraps? Good random loot is good for the game. Good raid loot is also good for the game. The huge issue between those two is balance. You need chests worth opening and Raid rewards worthy of the challenge.

FWIW before I get a nice named item I try to find the best possible substitute to use until I stop rolling 4s on the named stuff. If it was only platinum in a chest how would I find alternatives? Metaline of Pure Good before Min2, ghost touch of disrutpion before 3x POS....

Anyway that is all way off topic. I still believe CiTW will be run because builds and tastes change with every TR and some of the weapons will always be great to have.

[Kalimah]

Puh-lease. Every toon I've run through CiTW has gotten their weapon of choice within 10 runs. And everyone I see who hasn't gotten their weapon yet is using a GS.

RNG weapons are virtually useless past lvl 16, save for the odd smiter.

You are extremely lucky then.

[patang01]

OP this goes without saying that CITW weapons will not be end game weapons. Update 21's raid will almost certainly have better weapons then CITW weapons. The question will be which of the weapons will not be surpassed at least with update 21, but not until this summer.

I'd like it to be like greensteel but for high end. Where you can do items or weapons for any slot and with many interesting permutations. It would add longevity and you could mold each piece to what you need it for.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Puh-lease. Every toon I've run through CiTW has gotten their weapon of choice within 10 runs. And everyone I see who hasn't gotten their weapon yet is using a GS.

RNG weapons are virtually useless past lvl 16, save for the odd smiter.

Shroud weapons aren't all that exciting for casters and neither are the CitW weapons - lootgen is where it's at for caster sticks.

Also, Shroud is great for making a weapon to TR with, but if you're on a character's first life, then there's a good chance that you'll be level 28 before you run the Shroud more than a couple of times (possibly before you even run it once given how dead raiding is lately), so you're likely to have lootgen weapons on the first couple of runs through your first few raids. Until you pick up a weapon that's really worth carrying.

Just like how we used to swing a +1 Metalline of Pure Good weapon in the Shroud until we made that MinII or the LitII or picked up something better.

[FlaviusMaximus]

CITW weapons are min level 23. The developers plan on making the endgame at level 30 and cementing that with a raid. One would hope that min level 30 raid gear outstrips level 23 raid gear. So don't plan your lives around CITW weapons. Look at how powerful the random level 28 loot gen is.

Random level 28 loot gen doesn't touch CitW stuff. I would prefer to see the CiTW weapons remain the most powerful of their type because 1) they are only a little over a year old and 2) they are plenty powerful as is. Let's not get completely out of control with the power creep.

The upcoming raids need to offer named weapon types that aren't covered in FoT or CiTW, like a dwarven axe, maul, heavy/light pick, throwing star, scimitar, mace, kukri, kama, hand axe, scepter, etc.

[Draxis]

What undead beater are you using on the dragon in FoT? GS handwraps? Good random loot is good for the game. Good raid loot is also good for the game. The huge issue between those two is balance. You need chests worth opening and Raid rewards worthy of the challenge.

FWIW before I get a nice named item I try to find the best possible substitute to use until I stop rolling 4s on the named stuff. If it was only platinum in a chest how would I find alternatives? Metaline of Pure Good before Min2, ghost touch of disrutpion before 3x POS....

Anyway that is all way off topic. I still believe CiTW will be run because builds and tastes change with every TR and some of the weapons will always be great to have.

I'm talking about CiTW... I would hope you'd have a basic GS or alchemical weapon by the time you start farming CiTW. Old random loot was good. Old random loot is still good, if you still have it. This new Rapid Strikes / Ghostbane stuff is 100% vendor trash. And so RNG weapons will remain vendor trash until the item system is updated (Which they've promised is next.)

My original point is that I'd RATHER see awesome RNG weapons than be required to farm the one best-in-slot weapon for my char. But right now, that ain't happening. And if they add weapons better than the CiTW weapons but worse than RNG weapons in the next raid, it'll never happen.

And personally, I used a +++ in FoT before I got an epic silver slinger (And yes, I swear it does more dmg than +++ AND debuffs the dragon for everyone.)

[HungarianRhapsody]

I'm talking about CiTW... I would hope you'd have a basic GS or alchemical weapon by the time you start farming CiTW.

Why?

By the time that you get to end game, you've zipped past all of the other raids. It takes hardly any time to level past the raids and they're not run often at all. Do you also expect them to have loot from VoD and HoX?

Epic Destinies are WAAAAY more important than a few extra points of weapon damage. Are you going to investigate whether everyone in the raid is in an optimum destiny before they step into the raid? Or if they even have destinies at all?

[NaturalHazard]

meh so what? Minlevel 23 is still important still need to get through 5 levels to reach 28, so won't be able to use teh uber level 28 or 30 weapons till then, it will be like greensteel weapons 11-18 or 20 twink. Still very important though.

[NaturalHazard]

I'm talking about CiTW... I would hope you'd have a basic GS or alchemical weapon by the time you start farming CiTW. Old random loot was good. Old random loot is still good, if you still have it. This new Rapid Strikes / Ghostbane stuff is 100% vendor trash. And so RNG weapons will remain vendor trash until the item system is updated (Which they've promised is next.)

My original point is that I'd RATHER see awesome RNG weapons than be required to farm the one best-in-slot weapon for my char. But right now, that ain't happening. And if they add weapons better than the CiTW weapons but worse than RNG weapons in the next raid, it'll never happen.

And personally, I used a +++ in FoT before I got an epic silver slinger (And yes, I swear it does more dmg than +++ AND debuffs the dragon for everyone.)

Sigh you know im glad I got greensteel and alchemical, old epics and citw weapons..........cause I did loot a lot of nice old school weapons with good stats but I ahed/ vendored or deconstructed a lot of them cause i was running low on space if I had know ghostbane of rapid strikes was on its way I would of saved a select few, very useful in some situations and for twinking alts.

[bartharok]

Sigh you know im glad I got greensteel and alchemical, old epics and citw weapons..........cause I did loot a lot of nice old school weapons with good stats but I ahed/ vendored or deconstructed a lot of them cause i was running low on space if I had know ghostbane of rapid strikes was on its way I would of saved a select few, very useful in some situations and for twinking alts.

I got lucky, sincei had forgotten some old stuff on my hagglebard. But i sure wish i had kept more of it.

[Capricorpus]

And I suppose you're going to say the same about ConcOPP and all the rest of it eh?

Not at all, I use a GS blur/health item at epic levels many lives. GS remains a decent way to fill a slot if you don't have something better, but weapon isn't a slot where having nothing better is acceptable.

[NaturalHazard]

I got lucky, sincei had forgotten some old stuff on my hagglebard. But i sure wish i had kept more of it.

heh unfortunately for me a few weeks before ghostbane hit I went through a massive clean up on all my alts and bank toons lol.

[bartharok]

heh unfortunately for me a few weeks before ghostbane hit I went through a massive clean up on all my alts and bank toons lol.

Ouch... Thats what i call unfortunate timing.

[Capricorpus]

To you, maybe. But why even have random weapons if they're guaranteed to be trash compared to an easily-farmed raid weapon? Why not just put the equivalent plat in chests?

And why run difficult raids if you can't get a better weapon for it? How about for the chance to get a better accessory, or an item for any of the other myriad of slots on your toon?


In my experience, random weapons exist to:
1) Be icy bursted and used at low levels
2) Be used by bads who either don't understand that the weapon isn't good or simply haven't pulled the good item they want
3) Fill niche slots, many of which could be filled by named or semi-named (GS) weapons


I don't understand why so many people seem to think that everything needs to be "equivalent" in some way or another. The item, ability, or enhancement that's used by Player A doesn't (and shouldn't) necessarily have a parallel for Player B. Most named items should be better than most randomly generated items of the same ML, because that's what named items are meant to do.

The raid weapons should not, however, be "easily farmed", since that also defeats the purpose.

Boiled down, it comes to this: Why would people use non-named items? Not because they're better than named items, but because they're easier to acquire. End of story.

[NaturalHazard]

Ouch... Thats what i call unfortunate timing.

Yeah well I should of learnt by then......in DDO don't take anything for granted............I had taken the random loot for granted........lol.

[Grecan]

Boiled down, it comes to this: Why would people use non-named items? Not because they're better than named items, but because they're easier to acquire. End of story.Hmmm....
That could also explain why i see a lot of people riding motorcycles instead of high-end luxury cars... ;D


At last, i can stop wondering, lol

[slarden]

CITW weapons are min level 23. The developers plan on making the endgame at level 30 and cementing that with a raid. One would hope that min level 30 raid gear outstrips level 23 raid gear. So don't plan your lives around CITW weapons. Look at how powerful the random level 28 loot gen is.

It really depends on the min level of the new weapons. If you are epic reincarnating CITW drops are still very useful weapons for a long portion of the epic leveling.

[Buffyanne]

It's hilarious, Citw gear was never considered back up gear till the last 24 hrs when everyone got a weapon of their choice! Now it's no longer fun for some to feel bullish about having nightmares, celestias and pinions since everyone has them and therefore it must be trivialized? Always good for a laugh these forums....

[Vellrad]

It's hilarious, Citw gear was never considered back up gear till the last 24 hrs when everyone got a weapon of their choice! Now it's no longer fun for some to feel bullish about having nightmares, celestias and pinions since everyone has them and therefore it must be trivialized? Always good for a laugh these forums....

some feel bullish about nightmares, because they got heavily nerfed.

[Chai]

I like random loot being close to raid loot. It just needs to be rare. Right now it isn't. Keen IV is better for most str builds focusing on crit damage than the raid weapons are. It makes the base 3.5[w]. The raid loot also has the old versions of the effects on it while randgen loot has the new versions which do more splash damage and add more to things like deception.

[FuzzyDuck81]

My arty still uses his greensteel repeater at level 25 - well i say "still", i made it for him at level 24 or so & use it a lot - and i don't intend to stop, until an epic pudding gun becomes available!

Despite having a few of the CITW weapons now, the single best weapon i have on my wolf druid is still a desert sand dagger of heavenly wrath - the more common stuff, fair enough that it's relatively easily outclassed, but random generation will still mean some very tasty outliers too, and finding one of them adds a nice surprise in addition to the whole "i'm aiming for X & it has exactly Y properties".

The way its going with new augments etc. i see it being less about uber-quality single items & more finding a solid base item then adding extra semi-customisable combinations on top in future.

[slarden]

Epic shroud would be a better end-game than this ETR hamster-wheel.

It would be great if they had an epic raid/crafting system that support Epic reincarnation the way shroud support heroic true reincarnation. Nobody likes to keep swapping gear every few levels.

[Chai]

It would be great if they had an epic raid/crafting system that support Epic reincarnation the way shroud support heroic true reincarnation. Nobody likes to keep swapping gear every few levels.

They do, its basically old epics. The major difference is items are farmed in different chains.

The people who farmed all that stuff when 20 was cap now have an entire tier level of gear. eChrono gear with an eAGA is good from 20-25.

[Singular]

To maintain the status of CITW weapons all they would have to do is somehow let us upgrade the trinkets to include augment slots. I'd greatly prefer one to be green, one yellow. Having it done in stages would add to the hamster wheel of raids.

:)