My Otto's Boxes haven't been retroactively changed? Thanks for screwing me!

[Cetus]

This is amazing, I go to heroic TR into an iconic - and realize that my heroic otto's stone still describes the ML 8 (8-->16) functionality.

Hey Devs - Iconics are holding level 15 already - this stone is worthless to me. I guinea pigged one of my 7 boxes ($$?) and only received like 600k xp on my iconic.

Sure these stones are fine for a non-iconic toon, but that isn't my problem. I should be given the option to turn my old boxes in for the new ones. This is absolutely ridiculous.

[morkahn82]

So you worry about that the stones worked as stated in the description of the item?

But I agree that there should be only one version of the same item. That is in general a problem in ddo that there are various versions (deprecated and updated) of the same item, and I am not speaking of different levels (tier1-3 or e/h/n/EN/EH/EE).

[Miow]

They have screwed up big time when it comes to a 50$ store item. No excuses.

[DrakHar]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/428741 I'm not saying it's fair. But I am saying it was known before the update.

[twigzz]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/428741 I'm not saying it's fair. But I am saying it was known before the update.

True story.

[ZzpxpzZ]

I dont even...

I bought a Playstation 1 once and now they are coming out with the Playstation 4! Sony should give me a Playstation 4! This is garbage! What kind of customer service is this from Sony????!?!!

How dare they sell something as being EXACTLY what they said it was when selling it and then you get what you purchased? WHAT THE HECK!

[JOTMON]

This is amazing, I go to heroic TR into an iconic - and realize that my heroic otto's stone still describes the ML 8 (8-->16) functionality.

Hey Devs - Iconics are holding level 15 already - this stone is worthless to me. I guinea pigged one of my 7 boxes ($$?) and only received like 600k xp on my iconic.

Sure these stones are fine for a non-iconic toon, but that isn't my problem. I should be given the option to turn my old boxes in for the new ones. This is absolutely ridiculous.


So new Otto's box gives:
2mm xp unbound stone usable and tradable by anyone once per life and is augmented by all xp boosters.. can be used anytime before level 20.
and a reincarnation bypass timer


Nice to see how they locked down the reincarnations to 3 days where you could TR/LR to bypass and then introduce a reincarnation bypass stone as part of the new Otto's box.
retroactively chaged the old otto's box xp stone to no longer be tradable or usable on others and added a "free" reincaration timer reset to the new boxes.

so the extra otto's boxes I purchased for future TR's and trades is now substatially worth less then the new box which can be used by anyone including iconics to full value.

[psteen1]

I dont even...

I bought a Playstation 1 once and now they are coming out with the Playstation 4! Sony should give me a Playstation 4! This is garbage! What kind of customer service is this from Sony????!?!!

How dare they sell something as being EXACTLY what they said it was when selling it and then you get what you purchased? WHAT THE HECK!

/thread

[Alavatar]

For a $50 item I expected to at least have the option of an upgrade in the Original Otto's barter box.

[Munkenmo]

How dare they sell something as being EXACTLY what they said it was when selling it and then you get what you purchased? WHAT THE HECK!

The Ottos box was not being sold as advertised, nor was it working as advertised since the release of u19.

Upgrading all the old boxes and old stones to have the same functionality as the new heroic ottos boxes /stones would have been a very nice "goodwill" gesture to apologize to those of us who've been caught with broken xp stones.

Thread showing the problems with old ottos box stones (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/426920-Otto-s-XP-stones-and-their-ongoing-saga)

[DrNuegebauer]

I dont even...

I bought a Playstation 1 once and now they are coming out with the Playstation 4! Sony should give me a Playstation 4! This is garbage! What kind of customer service is this from Sony????!?!!

How dare they sell something as being EXACTLY what they said it was when selling it and then you get what you purchased? WHAT THE HECK!

That's not the right analogy. It's not the same thing.

A better analogy would be: you buy a book of 10 tickets to the movies, with no expiry. You go to the movies, and they now tell you that your tickets can only be used to watch PG movies. It makes no sense...

The whole thing makes no sense. An Otto's box is an Otto's box, and surely they could have had a system where the box was placed in the stone of change, and converted to a 'modern' box (or this could be done by paging for GM assistance?).
Having said that, it was stated prior to the update that the old boxes would continue to function as they always had. So, while I understand Cetus' frustration, the system is what it is at the moment.

[redspecter23]

I'm wondering if this would even have been an issue if Turbine had chosen a different name for the boxes. Had they been "Tenser's Box" there would have been no expectation that they function in any way similar to Otto's boxes. I get that this backfired with Bigby's boxes, but those were unpopular for different reasons I think. These new boxes have a different enough function that Turbine probably should have chosen a new name for them. With a new name, we lose any expectation that the old boxes should function any differently.

I agree that it would have been nice if the boxes could be upgraded, but I hardly think you "got screwed" because they aren't. The boxes function as they always did (at least for the person that opened it). What I see as the main issue is that these old boxes are completely useless for iconics and players that have all or most of the heroic lives they want will be very likely to be playing iconics instead of standard characters. So the boxes are effectively less useful, but because of other changes in the game and not because they function any differently than before.

I think anyone paying attention to the way epic and iconic TR was shaping up could have predicted the drop in usefulness of the old boxes. As soon as it was apparent that iconic TR's would start at level 15, I lost all interest in the boxes. I knew there was a good chance I'd never bother with them again.

[gordgray]

They have screwed up big time when it comes to a 50$ store item. No excuses.

How did thy "screwed up big time" Did he get it b4 the update? if so he got what he payed for thy gave the description at the time of the sale, No were did thy say O if we do something different we will give you the new one or fix all who bought them from were thy were first sold. Stop trying to get something for free If he wants a newer one then sell the one he has on the shard exchange and get the new one.

[Thud]

Will a GM be able to give you a new stone? They did that for me a number of times when the stones were retroactively changed to not work on other accounts.

Edit: Accounts should be toons.

[bartharok]

I doubt that they will give anybody new stones, since the new one is essentially a different item than before, while the old one was changed to not do something it used to.

[Draxis]

I guess they figure if you've got the kind of liquidity to throw down $50 for what amounts to useless pixels and bits (In the grand scheme) then another measly $50 for the new-and-improved version should be no thang to you.

If a $50 purchase is so important to you that you demand ongoing support in return for spending that kind of money, then maybe you need to take a second look at your financial priorities before making purchases like that.

*jumps from high horse and breaks leg*

[Thud]

How did thy "screwed up big time" Did he get it b4 the update? if so he got what he payed for thy gave the description at the time of the sale, No were did thy say O if we do something different we will give you the new one or fix all who bought them from were thy were first sold. Stop trying to get something for free If he wants a newer one then sell the one he has on the shard exchange and get the new one.

Actually, the description of the stone was auctionable, tradeable and they were retroactively changed to be neither. Then the whole xp system changed. So, it's not a matter of getting something for free, its a matter of getting the equivalent of what was paid for in the first place.

I liken it to purchasing a race/class with TP. I better not have to repurchase warforged to get the u20 features of warforged (I only chose a specific class/race for the trolls btw).

[Thud]

(clip) With a new name, we lose any expectation that the old boxes should function any differently.

(clip)

This is the heart here. I foresee some disappointed people spending a lot of shards on the AH.

[Draxis]

Actually, the description of the stone was auctionable, tradeable and they were retroactively changed to be neither. Then the whole xp system changed. So, it's not a matter of getting something for free, its a matter of getting the equivalent of what was paid for in the first place.

This I do agree with. If you purchase something that states X, it should do X - Always. Old boxes should never have had their tradability and auctionability revoked. That IS having something taken away that you paid good money for.

Then again, it's all pixels and bits in Turbine's fantasy world. So legally speaking, they can do as they please.

[gordgray]

Actually, the description of the stone was auctionable, tradeable and they were retroactively changed to be neither. Then the whole xp system changed. So, it's not a matter of getting something for free, its a matter of getting the equivalent of what was paid for in the first place.

I liken it to purchasing a race/class with TP. I better not have to repurchase warforged to get the u20 features of warforged (I only chose a specific class/race for the trolls btw).

So that one was given to you? or did you not read the Description before you payed cash for it? you got what you pad for just because thy put out 2 new one dose no entitle you or any one else a upgrade. I like this

"I bought a Playstation 1 once and now they are coming out with the Playstation 4! Sony should give me a Playstation 4! This is garbage! What kind of customer service is this from Sony????!?!!

How dare they sell something as being EXACTLY what they said it was when selling it and then you get what you purchased? WHAT THE HECK!" thanks
ZzpxpzZ

[Chai]

I doubt that they will give anybody new stones, since the new one is essentially a different item than before, while the old one was changed to not do something it used to.

Yeap, this.

Its not that I agree with people getting boned on this, but we saw it coming a mile away with all the confusion on this one simple thing for ages now. It doesnt seem like they want to fix all boxes to do the same thing. Theyd rather have 4 different kinds of boxes, some with same name, some not, that all do different things, then make people figure out which era their box was made in. Furthermore since these are trade-able, you have to take someones word for it when they tell you it came from a specific era when the box did such and such.

Making them ALL do ONE THING avoids this entire convoluted mess.

[Nightmanis]

This is amazing, I go to heroic TR into an iconic - and realize that my heroic otto's stone still describes the ML 8 (8-->16) functionality.

Hey Devs - Iconics are holding level 15 already - this stone is worthless to me. I guinea pigged one of my 7 boxes ($$?) and only received like 600k xp on my iconic.

Sure these stones are fine for a non-iconic toon, but that isn't my problem. I should be given the option to turn my old boxes in for the new ones. This is absolutely ridiculous.

Give them to me then. Problem solved.

[noneill]

They were open about it in advance but I really think they should have called the new ones a different name.

[bartharok]

They were open about it in advance but I really think they should have called the new ones a different name.

The problem is that the old name fits the new one better than the old.

[Deadlock]

This is amazing, I go to heroic TR into an iconic - and realize that my heroic otto's stone still describes the ML 8 (8-->16) functionality.

Hey Devs - Iconics are holding level 15 already - this stone is worthless to me. I guinea pigged one of my 7 boxes ($$?) and only received like 600k xp on my iconic.

Sure these stones are fine for a non-iconic toon, but that isn't my problem. I should be given the option to turn my old boxes in for the new ones. This is absolutely ridiculous.

It's ridiculous that you somehow expect the box you purchased to change without any announcements or discussion that they would be changed.

So stone took you from 15 to 16 as advertised?

Nothing to see here.

You'll excuse my lack of empathy or sympathy for stoners.

[Thud]

So that one was given to you? or did you not read the Description before you payed cash for it? you got what you pad for just because thy put out 2 new one dose no entitle you or any one else a upgrade. I like this

"I bought a Playstation 1 once and now they are coming out with the Playstation 4! Sony should give me a Playstation 4! This is garbage! What kind of customer service is this from Sony????!?!!

How dare they sell something as being EXACTLY what they said it was when selling it and then you get what you purchased? WHAT THE HECK!" thanks
ZzpxpzZ

No, I didn't get what I paid for, or did you not read the post?

And the OS/playstation analogys need a little more thought. Playstation 4 and windows n does not REDUCE the power of the playstation 1 or windows n-1, like the XP overhaul REDUCES the power of the Otto's box.

[bartharok]

No, I didn't get what I paid for, or did you not read the post?

And the OS/playstation analogys need a little more thought. Playstation 4 and windows n does not REDUCE the power of the playstation 1 or windows n-1, like the XP overhaul REDUCES the power of the Otto's box.

The stone still takes you to 16, right?

[Thud]

It's ridiculous that you somehow expect the box you purchased to change without any announcements or discussion that they would be changed.

They did change without any announcement already, for the worse. I guess you didn't have any then either?

[Thud]

The stone still takes you to 16, right?

Nice red herring. It will only take the person who opened the box to 16, so NOT working as advertised. Right? Downgraded is okay, but upgraded is horrible to you? Why is this?

[bartharok]

Nice red herring. It will only take the person who opened the box to 16, so NOT working as advertised. Right? Downgraded is okay, but upgraded is horrible to you? Why is this?

I said that they wont give you a stone that is NOT the same one you had before. Sort of like they wont change your weapon X to a weapon of greater power that has made the original one obsolote. Because the new stone is in effect another item, though it has the same name.

[Munkenmo]

I said that they wont give you a stone that is NOT the same one you had before. Sort of like they wont change your weapon X to a weapon of greater power that has made the original one obsolote. Because the new stone is in effect another item, though it has the same name.

They stopped replacing stones FULLSTOP.

Doesn't matter that stones were originally useable on others and sold as such, they got changed to prevent this leaving us with a product that had reduced functionality.

[Daine]

That's not the right analogy. It's not the same thing.

A better analogy would be: you buy a book of 10 tickets to the movies, with no expiry. You go to the movies, and they now tell you that your tickets can only be used to watch PG movies. It makes no sense...


That's not the right analogy. It's not the same thing.

A better analogy would be: you buy a book of 10 tickets to the movies, with no expiry. You go to the movies and see they now have the new holographic movie projectors, but they tell you tickets are only good for the old 2D and 3D movies that existed when you bought your movie tickets.

You got exactly what was offered at the time of purchase and it all makes perfect sense.

[Munkenmo]

That's not the right analogy. It's not the same thing.

A better analogy would be: you buy a book of 10 tickets to the movies, with no expiry. You go to the movies and see they now have the new holographic movie projectors, but they tell you tickets are only good for the old 2D and 3D movies that existed when you bought your movie tickets.

You got exactly what was offered at the time of purchase and it all makes perfect sense.

Best analogy:

You buy 10 movie tickets :

You go to the movies with 9 friends:

They say sorry, these tickets are self only.

[jskinner937]

They were open about it in advance but I really think they should have called the new ones a different name.


Well the first sign I got of the new change was in lamania about 1 month before the update. I had 15 in my inventory at the time and sent a PM to Cordovan and started a ticket...receiving no response from either. I purchased many of these as they were limited release and had the income available at the time. I used 6 since I found and still have 9 left. I do like to use these on occasion as barter items, and even comparing them to the old XP system since the XP curve...these boxes are not the same as what they were originally bought for.

If Turbine thought they were worth 4995TP now, why would they optimize them for u20? I would think if they changed these, they should change the existing ones, or at least the stones. As I said in my thread, I do not mind spending money on this game for entertainment value, but burning your best paying customers is a bad business model. I will never buy another Otto's box unless this is resolved.

I empathize your disgust Cetus.

[DrNuegebauer]

That's not the right analogy. It's not the same thing.

A better analogy would be: you buy a book of 10 tickets to the movies, with no expiry. You go to the movies and see they now have the new holographic movie projectors, but they tell you tickets are only good for the old 2D and 3D movies that existed when you bought your movie tickets.

You got exactly what was offered at the time of purchase and it all makes perfect sense.

More like, they take your ticket, but don't give you the 3D glasses.

It doesn't make sense that they wouldn't give you the 3D glasses - even though your movie ticket never explicitly said you'd get that, that was simply because there was no such thing as 3D movies when you bought the (unlimited expiry) tickets.

You got exactly what was offered at the time of purchase, and it makes no sense at all that they wouldn't convert the "old" product to the "new" one. Especially considering it goes by the same name.

[bartharok]

More like, they take your ticket, but don't give you the 3D glasses.

It doesn't make sense that they wouldn't give you the 3D glasses - even though your movie ticket never explicitly said you'd get that, that was simply because there was no such thing as 3D movies when you bought the (unlimited expiry) tickets.

You got exactly what was offered at the time of purchase, and it makes no sense at all that they wouldn't convert the "old" product to the "new" one. Especially considering it goes by the same name.

Movies isnt the right analogy, methinks. More like getting lunchvouchers from work, ones that can be used by carrier, and then having them changed to having your name on them, so you have to prove who you are.

[Cetus]

It's ridiculous that you somehow expect the box you purchased to change without any announcements or discussion that they would be changed.

So stone took you from 15 to 16 as advertised?

Nothing to see here.

You'll excuse my lack of empathy or sympathy for stoners.

What's ridiculous is your decision to take time out of your day to ask me to "...excuse your lack of empathy or sympathy.."

The boxes are worth the same monetarily, so it costs turbine nothing to implement a turn in for those of us who choose to run their heroic lives as iconics instead.

In fact, it'll generate them revenue in the long term by virtue of having a happy customer.

By the way, if there's nothing to see here, you wouldn't need to write that for everyone else to "not see". Logic isn't your thing huh?

[ReaperAlexEU]

What's ridiculous is your decision to take time out of your day to ask me to "...excuse your lack of empathy or sympathy.."

The boxes are worth the same monetarily, so it costs turbine nothing to implement a turn in for those of us who choose to run their heroic lives as iconics instead.

In fact, it'll generate them revenue in the long term by virtue of having a happy customer.

By the way, if there's nothing to see here, you wouldn't need to write that for everyone else to "not see". Logic isn't your thing huh?

going out on a limb here, but it seems there might be a chance customer service can help with this one. when it comes to store items not working as expected they seem to have a good track record of helping customers out. note i'm saying customer service here, not in game GM's

for example through the history of reincarnations there have been all sorts of problems, some were bugs but others were just player mistakes. yet the customer service team has more often than not helped out a customer get what they intended to get with their purchase.

in your case i would expect them to be happy to exchange an old box for a new box. not quite sure what they will do with your character that already nommed on the stone, but i expect any other boxes you have will be exchangeable.

[slarden]

Offering better product is something that has always been done. Someone stocks up on 30% elixirs when they are on sale and 2 weeks later they are offering 50% xp elixirs.

That's not a nerf -it's a new product offering and new product offerings are typically better than what was previously offered. It's easier to sell stuff if you keep making it better.

Expect new and better epic boxes when the level cap is changed to 30 and by the way that won't be a nerf either.

You lose 30k xp vs. the new boxes on a 3rd lifer that isn't starting as an iconic. Also, the changes to the boxes were well known and discussed prior to the update. I do understand your frustration. Perhaps they should at least offer an upgrade of boxes for shards.

As far as a nerf, if you are VIP you are now getting an extra 15% instead of 10% and you need less overall xp to hit 20 than you did prior to U20. The boxes got better since U20 - not nerfed. If you want to use the new box you have to buy the new box. It is better so we are lucky they aren't charging more for it.

[jskinner937]

It's ridiculous that you somehow expect the box you purchased to change without any announcements or discussion that they would be changed.

So stone took you from 15 to 16 as advertised?

Nothing to see here.

You'll excuse my lack of empathy or sympathy for stoners.

Ridiculous....if it is so ridiculous, then why did Turbine "optimize" these for u20?

Besides the point, if you choose not to be a stoner, what compelled you to participate in this thread? Shouldn't matter as far as you concern.

Excuse me if I seem to have a lack of sympathy for a self righteous troll post.

[DrNuegebauer]

Movies isnt the right analogy, methinks. More like getting lunchvouchers from work, ones that can be used by carrier, and then having them changed to having your name on them, so you have to prove who you are.

That's a second issue.

I'm just illustrating that not updating them to the current version (if so desired) seems silly.

[bartharok]

Ridiculous....if it is so ridiculous, then why did Turbine "optimize" these for u20?

Besides the point, if you choose not to be a stoner, what compelled you to participate in this thread? Shouldn't matter as far as you concern.

Excuse me if I seem to have a lack of sympathy for a self righteous troll post.

You should always try to symphatize with yourself, otherwise you will get depressed

[bartharok]

That's a second issue.

I'm just illustrating that not updating them to the current version (if so desired) seems silly.

i THINK that they actually changed everything but the name, so they would have to delete, and then respawn. (Just a guess, not a fact of any kind)

[jskinner937]

Offering better product is something that has always been done. Someone stocks up on 30% elixirs when they are on sale and 2 weeks later they are offering 50% xp elixirs.

That's not a nerf -it's a new product offering and new product offerings are typically better than what was previously offered. It's easier to sell stuff if you keep making it better.

Expect new and better epic boxes when the level cap is changed to 30 and by the way that won't be a nerf either.

You lose 30k xp vs. the new boxes on a 3rd lifer that isn't starting as an iconic. Also, the changes to the boxes were well known and discussed prior to the update. I do understand your frustration. Perhaps they should at least offer an upgrade of boxes for shards.

As far as a nerf, if you are VIP you are now getting an extra 15% instead of 10% and you need less overall xp to hit 20 than you did prior to U20. The boxes got better since U20 - not nerfed. If you want to use the new box you have to buy the new box. It is better so we are lucky they aren't charging more for it.

So imagine if 30% elixirs became 50% elixirs with the same duration and costs the same TP. Much in the same.

Also should I point out that Producer Glin specifically said in a past post it would be unfair to change Otto's Box and Stone functionality to those that purchased them. Now they have changed for the better and again I state they are optimized for u20 with the XP change. The old stones in fact give significantly less XP than before, so they did change, yet they cost us paying customers the same.

Say what you will and make all the comparisons you want, but there are unhappy (paying and supporting) customers, myself included. Imagine if the revenue stream in this game shrunk significantly as a result of buyer confidence. This is bad business anyway you look at it.

[jskinner937]

You should always try to symphatize with yourself, otherwise you will get depressed

You make no sense. Did you even read the post I quoted?

[bartharok]

So imagine if 30% elixirs became 50% elixirs with the same duration and costs the same TP. Much in the same.

Also should I point out that Producer Glin specifically said in a past post it would be unfair to change Otto's Box and Stone functionality to those that purchased them. Now they have changed for the better and again I state they are optimized for u20 with the XP change. The old stones in fact give significantly less XP than before, so they did change, yet they cost us paying customers the same.

Say what you will and make all the comparisons you want, but there are unhappy (paying and supporting) customers, myself included. Imagine if the revenue stream in this game shrunk significantly as a result of buyer confidence. This is bad business anyway you look at it.

Uh, i bought a lot of dvds before blueray, and when some good old movies started to come out again only on blueray, i wasnt angry at either the makers of the bluray discs, or the manufacturers of my old dvd player that i couldnt watch them on it.

[bartharok]

You make no sense. Did you even read the post I quoted?

I was trolling you. You called him a troll for disagreeing strongly, which is disagreeing strongly.

[Chai]

Imagine if the revenue stream in this game shrunk significantly as a result of buyer confidence. This is bad business anyway you look at it.

No need to imagine...

Im reading the stuff in various channels where people ETR'd and one or more of a few bugs got them. Lost items, lost favor, lost tomes etc....

[ReaperAlexEU]

So imagine if 30% elixirs became 50% elixirs with the same duration and costs the same TP. Much in the same.

Also should I point out that Producer Glin specifically said in a past post it would be unfair to change Otto's Box and Stone functionality to those that purchased them. Now they have changed for the better and again I state they are optimized for u20 with the XP change. The old stones in fact give significantly less XP than before, so they did change, yet they cost us paying customers the same.

Say what you will and make all the comparisons you want, but there are unhappy (paying and supporting) customers, myself included. Imagine if the revenue stream in this game shrunk significantly as a result of buyer confidence. This is bad business anyway you look at it.

if the new ones cost as much as the old ones i bet customer services would be happy to help you swap old for new. give em a buzz, they are the ones that deal with players money, so they are a lot more willing to help than GMs

[jskinner937]

Uh, i bought a lot of dvds before blueray, and when some good old movies started to come out again only on blueray, i wasnt angry at either the makers of the bluray discs, or the manufacturers of my old dvd player that i couldnt watch them on it.

So why do you think comparing a digital product to a material object has weight?

[jskinner937]

I was trolling you. You called him a troll for disagreeing strongly, which is disagreeing strongly.

Well I am glad I don't have to call you a donkey, your post support that without me saying.

[bartharok]

Well I am glad I don't have to call you a donkey, your post support that without me saying.

Someone has no sense of humour, but keeps braying. I wonder where the donkey is?

[bartharok]

So why do you think comparing a digital product to a material object has weight?

Its a question of being reasonable or not.

[jskinner937]

Its a question of being reasonable or not.

So reasonable would bit would be expect that when Producer Glin posted a while ago that Otto's boxes (nor stones) would change in the near future, yet they did....this would be unfair.

Unfair would be that the product description of the stone says it can be traded or used on another player (still) yet the old ones do not.

To me this is beyond ridiculous. This are premium items, and I cannot think of another item in any MMO that costs as much as these.

[bartharok]

So reasonable would bit would be expect that when Producer Glin posted a while ago that Otto's boxes (nor stones) would change in the near future, yet they did....this would be unfair.

Unfair would be that the product description of the stone says it can be traded or used on another player (still) yet the old ones do not.

To me this is beyond ridiculous. This are premium items, and I cannot think of another item in any MMO that costs as much as these.

Reasonable is this: you still have the stones, you still get to 16. Ok, so you cant trade them, but thats not an U20 issue.

You feel cheated because you didnt get a bonus that nobody told you you were getting. That is unreasonable.

You CAN feel bad about them becoming untradeable, but only for those stones bought before you found out.

[jskinner937]

Reasonable is this: you still have the stones, you still get to 16. Ok, so you cant trade them, but thats not an U20 issue.

You feel cheated because you didnt get a bonus that nobody told you you were getting. That is unreasonable.

You CAN feel bad about them becoming untradeable, but only for those stones bought before you found out.

I'm done arguing with stupid...can never win.

[ReaperAlexEU]

Reasonable is this: you still have the stones, you still get to 16. Ok, so you cant trade them, but thats not an U20 issue.

You feel cheated because you didnt get a bonus that nobody told you you were getting. That is unreasonable.

You CAN feel bad about them becoming untradeable, but only for those stones bought before you found out.

more to the point is they can probably just give customer services a buzz to get the old swapped out for the new. so it's a lot of hot air about nothing (other than the hassle of course)

[ReaperAlexEU]

heck if epic and heroic also cost the same i bet customer services would even give you the option of which one you want!

it's not as if you are gaining anything for free. you paid a shed load of money for an exp stone, why do they care if it gets you to lvl16 or gives you 2 mill exp exactly where you want it? i'm sure they would rather put a smile on your face and take your money next time by just swapping items over

[bartharok]

I'm done arguing with stupid...can never win.

Keep up the fight, maybe one day youll beat that side of yourself.

[DrNuegebauer]

i THINK that they actually changed everything but the name, so they would have to delete, and then respawn. (Just a guess, not a fact of any kind)

But why would that be a problem? IF that's what someone wanted?

I fail to see any issue with it - kind of the territory that comes with changing the functionality of the stone isn't it?

[DrNuegebauer]

Reasonable is this: you still have the stones,

Ah yes, but the unreasonable thing is that the stones no longer do that, and so the reasonable thing would be to exchange old stones for new stones.



You feel cheated because you didnt get a bonus that nobody told you you were getting. That is unreasonable.


It's not unreasonable to expect the possibility of like for like exchange is it? The new stones cost the same as the old ones, they're for the same purpose (XP gain), they're named the same, and yet they operate differently. Um? It makes no sense.

It's not like Toyota has introduced a new version of a Corolla, and the owners of the old version of the Corolla are upset. No, both before U20, and after, both people have bought the same model Toyota. The pre-U20 Corolla's have a speed limitation imposed on them of 35mph. The post U20 ones have no limit, and cost the same amount. Rightfully some customers are scratching their heads as to why they can't exchange, or have their speed limitation taken off. They weren't promised this would happen - in fact, they were told it wouldn't happen. But one can't seem to fathom why this is the case?

It surely cannot be that hard to set up some exchange system? Even for Turbine?

[Uska]

You got what you paid for so be happy

[Thrudh]

You lose 30k xp vs. the new boxes on a 3rd lifer that isn't starting as an iconic.

This...

[XiaNYdE]

How did thy "screwed up big time" Did he get it b4 the update? if so he got what he payed for thy gave the description at the time of the sale, No were did thy say O if we do something different we will give you the new one or fix all who bought them from were thy were first sold. Stop trying to get something for free If he wants a newer one then sell the one he has on the shard exchange and get the new one.

Sorry you are wrong, i have 2 ottos boxes on my banker toon that i bought before U19, with unbound stones in them only they were changed AFTER i bought them so they are bound to whomever opens, THIS IS NOT what i payed for.

[ReaperAlexEU]

Sorry you are wrong, i have 2 ottos boxes on my banker toon that i bought before U19, with unbound stones in them only they were changed AFTER i bought them so they are bound to whomever opens, THIS IS NOT what i payed for.

try talking to customer services about that. i'm not joking either, customer services have a very good track record with sorting out problems with store items.

there is so much ranting going on in this thread and not one person with a grudge seems to have taken it up with customer services. customer services are the ones that work with paying customers, they have a lot more incentive to keep you happy than GMs do! they are also a lot more like a regular companies customer services.

to everyone complaining about the changes to the box, try customer services, then bring your story to the forums with your results. here's hoping there will be a few more smiles, even though it is a pain to have to make the phone call.

[supott]

funny to see so many ppl with such High Rep numbers making such ____ posts

[Munkenmo]

You got what you paid for so be happy

No I didn't, and there are threads detailing how stones got changed here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422911-Stones-of-Experience-can-no-longer-be-used-on-friends-%28) and here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/426920-Otto-s-XP-stones-and-their-ongoing-saga)

[Wizza]

This...

Did you even read the OP or you just go full ****** to defend Turbine regardless of the topic and the context? He HTR into an Iconic. He got 600k XP instead of the 2m XP (without bonuses) that should have gotten with the new stone. He didn't lost just 30k xp.

Some people...you say " A " and they reply with " ? ".

Try with support if you can bothered with it Cetussssssssss. Pretty sure they won't help thou.

[slarden]

Did you even read the OP or you just go full ****** to defend Turbine regardless of the topic and the context? He HTR into an Iconic. He got 600k XP instead of the 2m XP (without bonuses) that should have gotten with the new stone. He didn't lost just 30k xp.

Some people...you say " A " and they reply with " ? ".

Try with support if you can bothered with it Cetussssssssss. Pretty sure they won't help thou.

The box gave less xp because he started at 15 just like it would have 10 days ago. The description on the box reads "original otto's box". With very minimal research it's easy to figure out the new boxes weren't retroactively changed.

I will say this, the name change itself is confusing and I am sure some people will make mistakes. If Turbine went to the trouble to rename the box, it might have also been helpful to change the description on the box to explain it is different than the new box.

I hope the OP gets some help from customer service. It is a $25 item if you purchased it with triple points and that is a lot of money to spend on a mistake.

The point is the box wasn't nerfed. The box actually works better than it did before U20 if you do the math. They simply added new products that are better in all situations. But for a 3rd lifer non-iconic, it doesn't make too much of a difference.

[Wizza]

The box gave less xp because he started at 15 just like it would have 10 days ago. The description on the box reads "original otto's box". With very minimal research it's easy to figure out the new boxes weren't retroactively changed.

I will say this, the name change itself is confusing and I am sure some people will make mistakes. If Turbine went to the trouble to rename the box, it might have also been helpful to change the description on the box to explain it is different than the new box.

I hope the OP gets some help from customer service. It is a $25 item if you purchased it with triple points and that is a lot of money to spend on a mistake.

The point is the box wasn't nerfed. The box actually works better than it did before U20 if you do the math. They simply added new products that are better in all situations. But for a 3rd lifer non-iconic, it doesn't make too much of a difference.

They added nothing. They just pretended to add two new products where in fact they just modified a bit the old ones and gave them new names.

Cetus spent $50 to get his box. I already pointed out this in the link someone gave in the first two pages: it would be a good thing to do to retroactively change it to the new one. But again, I don't expect Turbine to do such a thing.

What they should have done is: change all the Old ottos to the new Heroic Otto's box and then introduce the new Epic Otto's box.

[Pooklebunny]

try talking to customer services about that. i'm not joking either, customer services have a very good track record with sorting out problems with store items.



Speaking as a girl with a few boxes on her hands, a sincere and unsnarky question: do you happen to know the best way to interact with customer services when you're in a completely different time zone ont he other side of the world and the "toll-free" number would cost an arm and a leg to call? Yes, I know, the call would cost less than the boxes cost, but with an uncertain outcome I'm reluctant to throw good money after bad...

[GotSomeQuestions]

Speaking as a girl with a few boxes on her hands, a sincere and unsnarky question: do you happen to know the best way to interact with customer services when you're in a completely different time zone ont he other side of the world and the "toll-free" number would cost an arm and a leg to call? Yes, I know, the call would cost less than the boxes cost, but with an uncertain outcome I'm reluctant to throw good money after bad...
Can you call via Skype? That shouldn't be more than a couple dollars, at most.

[Pooklebunny]

Can you call via Skype? That shouldn't be more than a couple dollars, at most.

Yikes, I honestly don't know, can I? I've never used it for anything but Skype-to-Skype chatting with distant family members, and not for ages!

[GotSomeQuestions]

Skype is my go-to for any kind of international phone call situation. It's obviously free for skype-to-skype calls, but it should be very cheap to add a calling plan to your account, so that you can call regular phones. I think a few dollars gets you unlimited calls for a month, or you can pay per call? But check what it costs whereever you are.

[DyrtNap]

That's not the right analogy. It's not the same thing.

A better analogy would be: you buy a book of 10 tickets to the movies, with no expiry. You go to the movies, and they now tell you that your tickets can only be used to watch PG movies. It makes no sense...

The whole thing makes no sense. An Otto's box is an Otto's box, and surely they could have had a system where the box was placed in the stone of change, and converted to a 'modern' box (or this could be done by paging for GM assistance?).
Having said that, it was stated prior to the update that the old boxes would continue to function as they always had. So, while I understand Cetus' frustration, the system is what it is at the moment.

No his analogy is actually spot on. They updated an existing model of a product. They didn't CHANGE anything about HIS purchase as you are suggesting. His purchase is 1000000% the EXACT same item HE chose to PURCHASE. Are they screwing us every time they put out a new model of car? But..but ... my model isn't worth as much and doesn't have the same features!!! Turbine is this thing called a business. They are here to *GASP* MAKE MONEY..

I'm a manager in retail and I see it everyday when people want to return stuff and they have not followed the RULES posted on 2 HUGE hot pink signs as they leave the store.

Here is a tip on being an adult:

Take responsibility for your own actions.

P.S. I swear people like the OP would hit an old lady crossing the road while texting and then Sue her because "Your Honor, SHE traumatized ME!!! Its her fault for being there in the crosswalk."

[Thud]

Uh, i bought a lot of dvds before blueray, and when some good old movies started to come out again only on blueray, i wasnt angry at either the makers of the bluray discs, or the manufacturers of my old dvd player that i couldnt watch them on it.

Uh, I bought the monk class before they came out with the new enhancement tree. Since the new tree wasn't in the description then I have to use the old one until I purchase monk again because I only get what I paid for. Get it?


But, I'm probably better off beating down a brick wall with my forehead than teaching empathy.

I just hope ddo has a better idea of a productive business than some players.

[Thud]

P.S. I swear people like the OP would hit an old lady crossing the road while texting and then Sue her because "Your Honor, SHE traumatized ME!!! Its her fault for being there in the crosswalk."

Thats BS, she wasn't even in a crosswalk or I would have stopped!

[Noctus]

This is amazing, I go to heroic TR into an iconic - and realize that my heroic otto's stone still describes the ML 8 (8-->16) functionality.

Hey Devs - Iconics are holding level 15 already - this stone is worthless to me. I guinea pigged one of my 7 boxes ($$?) and only received like 600k xp on my iconic.

Sure these stones are fine for a non-iconic toon, but that isn't my problem. I should be given the option to turn my old boxes in for the new ones. This is absolutely ridiculous.

Now i have seen everything.

Complaining that something is exactly as advertised, working exactly as it should ....


Some people just love to be offended.

[FalseFlag]

Did you even read the OP or you just go full ****** to defend Turbine regardless of the topic and the context?

While I am sure the esteemed poster in question did read the OP, that has no bearing on the fact that the answer to your question is B, because he always does, regardless of content.


No his analogy is actually spot on. No, it isn't . "Spot on" as a phrase, doesn't mean "completely wrong", so I don't understand your use here.

They didn't CHANGE anything about HIS purchase as you are suggesting. His purchase is 1000000% the EXACT same item HE chose to PURCHASE. Yes, THEY did. It DOESN'T matter how MANY times you randomly CAPITALIZE words. It doesn't CHANGE the facts.


Are they screwing us every time they put out a new model of car? No, THEY aren't. They are screwing us if we BUY a car and they THEN come and CHANGE the car we have.


I'm a manager in retail Good for you. That has nothing to do with anything, just like your sentence following that bit had nothing to do with anything.


Here is a tip on being an adult:
HERE'S another tip: don't be disingenuous;
Here's ANOTHER tip: read what people are writing, and don't comment until you actually understand it.

[Cetus]

Now i have seen everything.

Complaining that something is exactly as advertised, working exactly as it should ....


Some people just love to be offended.

You think that repeating the same old hilariously poor argument of "you knew before hand" does anything in this thread?

I knew about the changes, I knew that they would would work differently, I knew yadda yadda...

Come on now, I'm fully aware of the changes and when they were implemented. I'm not complaining that they changed the box, I bought it after the fact, then it doesn't work how I want it to work - enough with the "knew it beforehand" arguments and the horrendous analogy's presented here.

You aren't understanding this: I had these boxes before we ever received the very first announcement of them being changed. This meant, right from the very beginning - that these saved boxes are entirely useless for iconic lives since they are already holding level 15.

As I wrote in the OP - I Guinea pigged a stone to see how much I'd get - that means I knew what I was doing, but sacrificed a stone anyway, I don't expect to get that one back.

My only gripe is this: We should have the OPTION to turn them in into cost equivalent versions to support our preferred TR.

Lets see your witty retort einstein

[arkonas]

This is amazing, I go to heroic TR into an iconic - and realize that my heroic otto's stone still describes the ML 8 (8-->16) functionality.

Hey Devs - Iconics are holding level 15 already - this stone is worthless to me. I guinea pigged one of my 7 boxes ($$?) and only received like 600k xp on my iconic.

Sure these stones are fine for a non-iconic toon, but that isn't my problem. I should be given the option to turn my old boxes in for the new ones. This is absolutely ridiculous.

Sorry man i'm not with you on this one. there is no reason they should have to update anything you bought in the past. you spent your money on what you saw so you got what was advertised. just because they revamp the boxes and update them doesn't mean hey i should get it. sorry man.

[DemonStorm333]

This is amazing, I go to heroic TR into an iconic - and realize that my heroic otto's stone still describes the ML 8 (8-->16) functionality.

Hey Devs - Iconics are holding level 15 already - this stone is worthless to me. I guinea pigged one of my 7 boxes ($$?) and only received like 600k xp on my iconic.

Sure these stones are fine for a non-iconic toon, but that isn't my problem. I should be given the option to turn my old boxes in for the new ones. This is absolutely ridiculous.

they said specifically on the lama forums that the now old ottos boxes were not getting updated and would remain the same hence there names were changed to the "OLD" ottos box

[Cetus]

they said specifically on the lama forums that the now old ottos boxes were not getting updated and would remain the same hence there names were changed to the "OLD" ottos box

Congratulations

The very fact they said it doesn't mean that I don't have a problem with it, hence this thread.

I had those boxes before they decided to introduce new, cost wise identical ones, essentially making the ones I had useless for iconic TR's. Does anyone see this simple point?

[gordgray]

No his analogy is actually spot on. They updated an existing model of a product. They didn't CHANGE anything about HIS purchase as you are suggesting. His purchase is 1000000% the EXACT same item HE chose to PURCHASE. Are they screwing us every time they put out a new model of car? But..but ... my model isn't worth as much and doesn't have the same features!!! Turbine is this thing called a business. They are here to *GASP* MAKE MONEY..

I'm a manager in retail and I see it everyday when people want to return stuff and they have not followed the RULES posted on 2 HUGE hot pink signs as they leave the store.

Here is a tip on being an adult:

Take responsibility for your own actions.

P.S. I swear people like the OP would hit an old lady crossing the road while texting and then Sue her because "Your Honor, SHE traumatized ME!!! Its her fault for being there in the crosswalk."

LOL ha ha lol hehe lol /Singed Lol ha ha he lol

[Kin'ru]

This is amazing, I go to heroic TR into an iconic - and realize that my heroic otto's stone still describes the ML 8 (8-->16) functionality.

Hey Devs - Iconics are holding level 15 already - this stone is worthless to me. I guinea pigged one of my 7 boxes ($$?) and only received like 600k xp on my iconic.

Sure these stones are fine for a non-iconic toon, but that isn't my problem. I should be given the option to turn my old boxes in for the new ones. This is absolutely ridiculous.

If you would like your Original Otto's box changed into an Heroic Otto's box, simply contact in-game support and ask them to switch it for you. There is already a system in place to do so.

[bartharok]

Congratulations

The very fact they said it doesn't mean that I don't have a problem with it, hence this thread.

I had those boxes before they decided to introduce new, cost wise identical ones, essentially making the ones I had useless for iconic TR's. Does anyone see this simple point?

They were useless for iconics, tr's or not before the new boxes came, so i really cant understand this point.

[DrNuegebauer]

No his analogy is actually spot on. They updated an existing model of a product. They didn't CHANGE anything about HIS purchase as you are suggesting. His purchase is 1000000% the EXACT same item HE chose to PURCHASE. Are they screwing us every time they put out a new model of car? But..but ... my model isn't worth as much and doesn't have the same features!!! Turbine is this thing called a business. They are here to *GASP* MAKE MONEY..

I'm a manager in retail and I see it everyday when people want to return stuff and they have not followed the RULES posted on 2 HUGE hot pink signs as they leave the store.

Here is a tip on being an adult:

Take responsibility for your own actions.

P.S. I swear people like the OP would hit an old lady crossing the road while texting and then Sue her because "Your Honor, SHE traumatized ME!!! Its her fault for being there in the crosswalk."

Wow. If you're a manager in retail and have hot pink "no return" signs, then you must know what's up....

You're missing the entire point here. Turbine has not introduced a "new product". They have simply changed the functionality of an existing product BECAUSE the system which that product operates in has also been changed.
There is absolutely no sane reason for them not to upgrade old boxes to new. Nobody is arguing that the "old sale" boxes were promised to work in the same way as the "new sale". (A tip on having adult discussions is to try and understand what people are actually upset about)

The question is simply being asked: "why can't there be a system of exchange in place"?
There is absolutely no reason not to have one.

[bartharok]

Wow. If you're a manager in retail and have hot pink "no return" signs, then you must know what's up....

You're missing the entire point here. Turbine has not introduced a "new product". They have simply changed the functionality of an existing product BECAUSE the system which that product operates in has also been changed.
There is absolutely no sane reason for them not to upgrade old boxes to new. Nobody is arguing that the "old sale" boxes were promised to work in the same way as the "new sale". (A tip on having adult discussions is to try and understand what people are actually upset about)

The question is simply being asked: "why can't there be a system of exchange in place"?
There is absolutely no reason not to have one.

The reason might that they didnt as much upgrade a product, than make a completely new one with the same name. Why i think is the case is that they work in an entirely different manner. The old one gave you enough xp to reach 16, the new one gives a flat amount of xp. A completely different function. (With the exception that you get xp from both)

[DrNuegebauer]

They were useless for iconics, tr's or not before the new boxes came, so i really cant understand this point.

You don't seem to be good at understanding the issue. Hence you're missing the point.

What if they decided that your Voice of the Master would not grant 5%XP under the new system, because it was promised to grant 5%XP under the old system.... You'd have to get a new Voice in order to get the XP gain.

That's more akin to the pain he's feeling. He's upset because Turbine is too incompetent to provide a method of bringing same name products in line with their changed system. He's not at all arguing that they were for iconics before. But there's no good reason not to exchange for a new box.

The stupid thing about your argument is that even Turbine seems to disagrees with you. If he was to call Customer Support, they would exchange his old boxes for new ones. So with that knowledge, why didn't they code the update....

Please stop your inane chatter on the topic? It's less than helpful.

[DrNuegebauer]

The reason might that they didnt as much upgrade a product, than make a completely new one with the same name. Why i think is the case is that they work in an entirely different manner. The old one gave you enough xp to reach 16, the new one gives a flat amount of xp. A completely different function. (With the exception that you get xp from both)

You're incorrect.

Take the free LR from MoTU, it would work with Kruz. With the removal of Kruz, jerks like you would be saying "BWAHhaahahaa yuu losse." (you can't spell apparently?)
But no, they gave out a free heart to use in the new system so that the INTENTION behind the product remained the same.

Otto's boxes = same deal. Except they didn't upgrade (but will through customer service now). So um? They've acknowledged the problem, why can't you.

[Thrudh]

Did you even read the OP or you just go full ****** to defend Turbine regardless of the topic and the context? He HTR into an Iconic. He got 600k XP instead of the 2m XP (without bonuses) that should have gotten with the new stone. He didn't lost just 30k xp.

He didn't have a new stone. He had an old stone.

Old stone worked correctly.

[Munkenmo]

His purchase is 1000000% the EXACT same item HE chose to PURCHASE.





Complaining that something is exactly as advertised, working exactly as it should ....
.

You guys keep saying stuff like this, I bought a bunch of boxes before u19 to use the stones on myself and some close ingame friends.

After opening the boxes and trying to use the stones, I found out in u19 the stones no longer work on anyone else despite the advertisement saying they would.

OLD boxes WERE AND ARE BROKEN. Changing all the old stones to new ones, and old boxes to new ones Would have fixed this.

Alternately, I'd be happy if turbine once again fixed old xp stones to be useable on others.

Eitherway though, the status quo is not acceptable.

[bartharok]

You're incorrect.

Take the free LR from MoTU, it would work with Kruz. With the removal of Kruz, jerks like you would be saying "BWAHhaahahaa yuu losse." (you can't spell apparently?)
But no, they gave out a free heart to use in the new system so that the INTENTION behind the product remained the same.

Otto's boxes = same deal. Except they didn't upgrade (but will through customer service now). So um? They've acknowledged the problem, why can't you.

I tend to have a lot of typos, sincei write fast, and rarely bother to read proof when im done.

Being rude is no solution to your problems, i made a guess as to the reason they didnt auto-upgrade the stones. Thats not being a jerk, you know.

While commenting on my writing is.

[Wizza]

He didn't have a new stone. He had an old stone.

Old stone worked correctly.

They are THE SAME. They just changed the name and made a small correction to make you believe it's a new one.

It's NOT.

[Chai]

You don't seem to be good at understanding the issue. Hence you're missing the point.

What if they decided that your Voice of the Master would not grant 5%XP under the new system, because it was promised to grant 5%XP under the old system.... You'd have to get a new Voice in order to get the XP gain.

That's more akin to the pain he's feeling. He's upset because Turbine is too incompetent to provide a method of bringing same name products in line with their changed system. He's not at all arguing that they were for iconics before. But there's no good reason not to exchange for a new box.

The stupid thing about your argument is that even Turbine seems to disagrees with you. If he was to call Customer Support, they would exchange his old boxes for new ones. So with that knowledge, why didn't they code the update....

Please stop your inane chatter on the topic? It's less than helpful.

The minute you attempted to equate disagreement with lack of understanding of whats going on, you lost.


same name products

Nope. They have different names. They have different descriptions. They do different things.


The stupid thing about your argument is that even Turbine seems to disagrees with you. If he was to call Customer Support, they would exchange his old boxes for new ones. So with that knowledge, why didn't they code the update....

If they changed all the ones from previous there woud be people griping up a storm because what they bought got changed later on into something that is less advantageous for them. People get what they bought at the time they bought it and the description at the time they bought is exactly what the product does. If they alter that description later on, thats bait and switch. The fact that their CS is helping people out is because while they are willing to exchange for those who want to, they arent going to force everyone to the new functionality when they bought it for what it did at time of purchase. Marketing 101. Dont bait and force a switch. Youll have alot more angry users on your hands than if you offer an option to swap for those who want, as they did.

[Chai]

They are THE SAME. They just changed the name and made a small correction to make you believe it's a new one.

It's NOT.

This is incorrect. They have completely different descriptions of what the stone does.

[Wizza]

This is incorrect. They have completely different descriptions of what the stone does.

Omg! So they must be totally different! :rolleyes:

Open your eyes.

[Chai]

Omg! So they must be totally different! :rolleyes:

Open your eyes.

Yeap they are. Take your own advice, then read both of the descriptions. Note the distinct difference between "gives enough xp to reach level 16" -and- "grants two million xp".

[bartharok]

Omg! So they must be totally different! :rolleyes:

Open your eyes.

If i name a silver ring "gold ring", it will not magically change. The name of the item is of less import than its effect.

[Silverleafeon]

If you would like your Original Otto's box changed into an Heroic Otto's box, simply contact in-game support and ask them to switch it for you. There is already a system in place to do so.

+1

Seems the OP ought to get on the phone/email/ect...

[Wizza]

If i name a silver ring "gold ring", it will not magically change. The name of the item is of less import than its effect.

A silver ring and your "silver ring named Gold ring", with different names, are the same thing.

Same thing as for Otto's here. Different names, same thing. Thanks for proving my point thou.

[bartharok]

A silver ring and your "silver ring named Gold ring", with different names, are the same thing.

Same thing as for Otto's here. Different names, same thing. Thanks for proving my point thou.

Same name, different things, your point is not proven. Read before writing.

[sebastianosmith]

If i name a silver ring "gold ring", it will not magically change.

But if you name a dog Sit, will it ever come to you?

[bartharok]

But if you name a dog Sit, will it ever come to you?

With how much effort id be likely to put into training it... Most likely: yes.

[Chai]

But if you name a dog Sit, will it ever come to you?

Maybe. Might have to call it a bunch of times. Will be like a game of red light green light.

[Thud]

Wow, I submitted a nice in-game ticket. A lovely GM told me they'd look into the issue. All the old boxes in my inventory disappeared and a trade window appeared. I was asked to accept and new boxes appeared. Beautifully done. A 'magical' experience :cool:

[Systern]

That's not the right analogy. It's not the same thing.

A better analogy would be: you buy a book of 10 tickets to the movies, with no expiry. You go to the movies, and they now tell you that your tickets can only be used to watch PG movies. It makes no sense...

The whole thing makes no sense. An Otto's box is an Otto's box, and surely they could have had a system where the box was placed in the stone of change, and converted to a 'modern' box (or this could be done by paging for GM assistance?).
Having said that, it was stated prior to the update that the old boxes would continue to function as they always had. So, while I understand Cetus' frustration, the system is what it is at the moment.


Best analogy:

You buy 10 movie tickets :

You go to the movies with 9 friends:

They say sorry, these tickets are self only.

Better analogy: You buy a book of 10 general admission tickets. The theater then renovates and now has Lux/deluxe/catered balcony seating. Your old general admission tickets do not get you into the Lux level.


(I don't always go to the movies, but when I do, I drink scotch.)

[sebastianosmith]

With how much effort id be likely to put into training it... Most likely: yes.

Sigh... Just like my wife; literally beating the funny right out of that joke. Nobody appreciates a good word play anymore... ;)

[Silverleafeon]

If you would like your Original Otto's box changed into an Heroic Otto's box, simply contact in-game support and ask them to switch it for you. There is already a system in place to do so.

Bumping this in case it is missed.

[Silverleafeon]

Wow, I submitted a nice in-game ticket. A lovely GM told me they'd look into the issue. All the old boxes in my inventory disappeared and a trade window appeared. I was asked to accept and new boxes appeared. Beautifully done. A 'magical' experience :cool:

Congratulations.

[bartharok]

Sigh... Just like my wife; literally beating the funny right out of that joke. Nobody appreciates a good word play anymore... ;)

Dropping a lead weight on a play on words is amusing.

[DrNuegebauer]

Yeap they are. Take your own advice, then read both of the descriptions. Note the distinct difference between "gives enough xp to reach level 16" -and- "grants two million xp".

That is a component within the product.

The product is the Otto's Box.

The only reason any of this is an issue, is because of the change to the XP table. Thus the 'functionality' of the stone within the box was changed to a flat 2mill (sensible idea) - but for some reason existing Otto's Boxes were not automatically changed. Even though they have the same name. Even though they will be changed if one asks.

It's a very simple issue - I'm not sure why you're complicating it.

[bartharok]

That is a component within the product.

The product is the Otto's Box.

The only reason any of this is an issue, is because of the change to the XP table. Thus the 'functionality' of the stone within the box was changed to a flat 2mill (sensible idea) - but for some reason existing Otto's Boxes were not automatically changed. Even though they have the same name. Even though they will be changed if one asks.

It's a very simple issue - I'm not sure why you're complicating it.

The component within the old box is not the same as the one in the new one. And the name of the box has changed as well, from just ottos box to heroic/epic box. It may be that they just added the new ones, instead of changing the old. That woudl explain it. (I think it would be easier to do as well)

[Chai]

That is a component within the product.

The product is the Otto's Box.

The only reason any of this is an issue, is because of the change to the XP table. Thus the 'functionality' of the stone within the box was changed to a flat 2mill (sensible idea) - but for some reason existing Otto's Boxes were not automatically changed. Even though they have the same name. Even though they will be changed if one asks.

It's a very simple issue - I'm not sure why you're complicating it.

Im not complicating it at all. I am providing the legit business reason why they would allow people to exchange at their option, rather than force the change on everyone (which is what the OP expected). Marketing 101 - dont bait and switch. Allowing people to swap out at their option is the better choice.

[jskinner937]

Better analogy: You buy a book of 10 general admission tickets. The theater then renovates and now has Lux/deluxe/catered balcony seating. Your old general admission tickets do not get you into the Lux level.


(I don't always go to the movies, but when I do, I drink scotch.)

If you insist on making comparisons here is reality:

You are in the market for a computer (Otto's Box) and after careful deliberation you decide on a location and speak with the salesman (Producer Glin). You explain you want the top of line high-end computer and money is no object. He shows you a computer that costs $4995. He (Producer Glin) then proceeds to tell you this model will not be upgraded or changed so you decide it is the best time to buy and you decide to buy several for other people you know.

The next day you see an advertisement for the computer you just bought which is sold for the same price as you payed and bought several of them, yet it offers so much more now. Yo are infuriated and decide to return the items you purchased, oh but wait this store has no return policy unlike every other store on the planet.

So you are ****ed off with the way business was handled, and decide to never spend money at that store again.

These are premium items and some bought these items on the promise from Producer Glin that they would not change. We were mislead.

Might I also remind others that think this is undeserving that laws govern consumer rights...1.) Warranties can be express or implied and when Producer Glin stated no changes would be made to boxes and people stockpiled them after this statement, that is a violation of federal and most state laws. Also the description still has never been updated which is false advertisement. It really doesn't matter what it says in the EULA, a company can not take away the rights of the consumer.

I have not been able to contact customer service, however I will try one more time to contact an in-game GM. My next course of action is to file a complaint with my credit card company. And if my account is terminated for doing so, I have paid for every item and my VIP sub with my CC, so I will file a complaint for reimbursement of every penny I spent on this game. This was a bad move on Turbines part. Warner Bros. might not be too happy when they hear my complaint regardless of what happens.

[Silverleafeon]

Wow, I submitted a nice in-game ticket. A lovely GM told me they'd look into the issue. All the old boxes in my inventory disappeared and a trade window appeared. I was asked to accept and new boxes appeared. Beautifully done. A 'magical' experience :cool:

Bumping this in case it gets lost.

[DrNuegebauer]

Im not complicating it at all. I am providing the legit business reason why they would allow people to exchange at their option, rather than force the change on everyone (which is what the OP expected). Marketing 101 - dont bait and switch. Allowing people to swap out at their option is the better choice.

Well they certainly didn't advertise the option to swap. Otherwise you might have a point.

[DrNuegebauer]

The component within the old box is not the same as the one in the new one. And the name of the box has changed as well, from just ottos box to heroic/epic box. It may be that they just added the new ones, instead of changing the old. That woudl explain it. (I think it would be easier to do as well)

Even the makers of the thing disagree with you. They swap the old ones of the new through GM support in game. Sooooo

[Chai]

Might I also remind others that think this is undeserving that laws govern consumer rights...1.) Warranties can be express or implied and when Producer Glin stated no changes would be made to boxes and people stockpiled them after this statement, that is a violation of federal and most state laws. Also the description still has never been updated which is false advertisement. It really doesn't matter what it says in the EULA, a company can not take away the rights of the consumer.

They would first read you the policy that points are purchased with money, and the points have no cash value, and can only ne used to purchase stuff from the DDO store. Even if someone was able to win a case, which they wouldnt, but if they did, they would be awarded....nothing.

It is not a violation of law to sell a different bundle which does different things, with a different name. No changes were made to the ottos box. Heroic ottos box was released as a different bundle.

This case would get tossed out. Two different products in two different eras of the game. Once Turbine showed they also gave folks the opportunity to swap them out if they wanted, there would be no case left.

[bartharok]

Even the makers of the thing disagree with you. They swap the old ones of the new through GM support in game. Sooooo

The makers of the game do not disagree with what i said. I said that he new and old boxes are not necessarily the same item. Reading comprehension is something you should practice (and ill practice my spelling)

[Chai]

Well they certainly didn't advertise the option to swap. Otherwise you might have a point.

Incorrect - they posted it on these very forums, yesterday.

[jskinner937]

I can confirm this issue was handled swiftly and painless via the in-game ticket system by a GM. I am happy with the outcome and as a result purchased a few epic boxes. I would have bought more, but my confidence in bulk purchases might be slightly damaged still.

[Krelar]

Incorrect - they posted it on these very forums, yesterday.

Source please?

I looked at all the dev posts from yesterday and saw nothing related to Otto's boxes.

They could have prevented a lot of rage by being more obvious/upfront about the ability of GM's to trade in old boxes for new.

[SebastianG]

I also had no problems swapping my Old Otto's Boxes for the new Heroic Otto's Boxes. Thanks, Turbine.

[DrNuegebauer]

Incorrect - they posted it on these very forums, yesterday.

Ah yes - in response to their players.

Surely they should have advertised it in advance, or at the time of the update?

You're circular and trying to win a semantic argument, but not.

[DrNuegebauer]

The makers of the game do not disagree with what i said. I said that he new and old boxes are not necessarily the same item. Reading comprehension is something you should practice (and ill practice my spelling)

Previously I was having a go a charicature, not your actual spelling.

I think the point is well made in my favour here. The makers of the game think the 2 things are "the same enough" that they'll exchange "old" for "new".

I have nothing further to add.

[bartharok]

Previously I was having a go a charicature, not your actual spelling.

I think the point is well made in my favour here. The makers of the game think the 2 things are "the same enough" that they'll exchange "old" for "new".

I have nothing further to add.

Still no reading comprehension... I said they possibly didnt change the code, but made something new. Which means that the old ones would not be updated, since the item was not updated. But that does not mean that they cant exchange it if the buyers of the old ones are unhappy.

[Chai]

Ah yes - in response to their players.

Surely they should have advertised it in advance, or at the time of the update?

You're circular and trying to win a semantic argument, but not.

The argument is not circular nor semantic. They either did or did not, and they did. People have been getting their items swapped for the new ones at their option. The idea that they should have changed it for everyone is not conducive to how good business marketing works, as changing something already purchased into something different than it was when purchased carries implications of bait and switch. This is why they swap them out at the players option and did not force the switch on everyone. That is the correct answer to the entire argument. Whether you agree with that or not is an entirely different matter.

[Silverleafeon]

I also had no problems swapping my Old Otto's Boxes for the new Heroic Otto's Boxes. Thanks, Turbine.

Congratulations.

[slarden]

The process worked great for me to get my box swapped to the new box. There were comments that this was announced by the devs yesterday but I didn't see it in the dev tracker? I only found it due to Silverleafeon's bumping this to keep it on the first page so people saw it.

Can anyone point me to the dev link?

[PermaBanned]

Incorrect - they posted it on these very forums, yesterday.

I've been looking for but can't find this. Mind posting a link please, or answering this specific bit of a question?

•Are they just exchanging whole boxes, or can I just swap my old stone for a new one? My box was opened a while ago, and I've been sitting on the stone while using the pots etc.

[Golddragon87]

/Popcorn

To think all of this butthurt could have been avoided by picking a different name for the product...

[Munkenmo]

Chai is referencing a Personal Message that was made by QuartermasterX.

They've not publicly posted anything on these forums, a screenshot of that personal message has been posted on another forum that we're not publicly allowed to link to.

I wasn't aware you visited Strakelns forums though Chai, you should say hi.

[slarden]

I've been looking for but can't find this. Mind posting a link please, or answering this specific bit of a question?

•Are they just exchanging whole boxes, or can I just swap my old stone for a new one? My box was opened a while ago, and I've been sitting on the stone while using the pots etc.

Submit a ticket to check. I know for sure they will exchange a box quickly. I am not sure about just the stones.

[Cetus]

In game GM was wonderfully helpful, that's all I asked for.

Back to the semantics/crappy-analogies/misunderstandings/irrelevant arguments/ and ad hominem's

[Silverleafeon]

The process worked great for me to get my box swapped to the new box. There were comments that this was announced by the devs yesterday but I didn't see it in the dev tracker? I only found it due to Silverleafeon's bumping this to keep it on the first page so people saw it.

Can anyone point me to the dev link?

Woot...

:) :)

[Thud]

Sigh... Just like my wife; literally beating the funny right out of that joke. Nobody appreciates a good word play anymore... ;)

ikr

[Thud]

In game GM was wonderfully helpful, that's all I asked for.

Back to the semantics/crappy-analogies/misunderstandings/irrelevant arguments/ and ad hominem's

Wait till you find out that the new otto's don't function according to the item description. they say 2M plus xp bonuses, so i got a 50% pot, ml1 masters touch augmented item, 5% guild, 10% vip, and 5%vip bonus. I received 3.49999999M xp and it should have been 3.8M! Great, now I actually have to run quests for my past lives :rolleyes:

[HungarianRhapsody]

Incorrect - they posted it on these very forums, yesterday.

Where? I checked the Dev Tracker for Llama and Live both and I don't see that.

[Silverleafeon]

I can confirm this issue was handled swiftly and painless via the in-game ticket system by a GM. I am happy with the outcome and as a result purchased a few epic boxes. I would have bought more, but my confidence in bulk purchases might be slightly damaged still.

Bump for other's clarity that this issue is being solved by GMs.

[Thud]

Where? I checked the Dev Tracker for Llama and Live both and I don't see that.

I received a private message myself. I assume a number of posters did as well...

[Golddragon87]

So any clarification on if we can exchange just the stones?

[Thud]

So any clarification on if we can exchange just the stones?

Try an ingame ticket and let us know ;)

[Munkenmo]

So any clarification on if we can exchange just the stones?

Negative, None of the GM's will exchange old stones for new ones I've not tried ringing CS yet.

[Silverleafeon]

In game GM was wonderfully helpful, that's all I asked for.

Back to the semantics/crappy-analogies/misunderstandings/irrelevant arguments/ and ad hominem's

Bumping, see all my other quotes in this thread.

If you get a GM that will not help you, file a second or third ticket.
Things are definitely getting done.

[Oxarhamar]

Bumping, see all my other quotes in this thread.

If you get a GM that will not help you, file a second or third ticket.
Things are definitely getting done.

I've had the same GM closing multiple tickets on me in the past (for other issue) but, I agree open more maybe at a different time of day to get someone different

[Cetus]

Wait till you find out that the new otto's don't function according to the item description. they say 2M plus xp bonuses, so i got a 50% pot, ml1 masters touch augmented item, 5% guild, 10% vip, and 5%vip bonus. I received 3.49999999M xp and it should have been 3.8M! Great, now I actually have to run quests for my past lives :rolleyes:

3.8 million isn't in the description.

Try again

[Thud]

3.8 million isn't in the description.

Try again

3,499,999=1,999,999*1.75. Dang it, i thought it stacked like HA, but the percents are summed before multiplying. Oh wait, 1,999,999 < 2M!!!!!

"2 dollars!!!" :p

[Silverleafeon]

I've had the same GM closing multiple tickets on me in the past (for other issue) but, I agree open more maybe at a different time of day to get someone different

A few GM just are not up to date, good advice, keeping working at it.

On Khyber a players is actually trading new for old just to help out.
I suspect he then contacts a GM for a swap.

[Silverleafeon]

3.8 million isn't in the description.

Try again

Used multiple Otto's.

The magic number is 3.49 (unless you miss bonuses, until VIP extra bonus leaves).

[Cetus]

Used multiple Otto's.

The magic number is 3.49 (unless you miss bonuses, until VIP extra bonus leaves).

That's fine, not sure why my not being capped from a single Otto's stone is a point of concern for the other poster.