epic destiny need a fix!!

[burningwind]

there should be another button beside "Active button" named "training", which allow player to gain exp toward an inactive destiny, we have several destiny and most of them does not benefit player at all. but we still have to max them all for fate point. please turbine, make it fair and nice for everyone. allow us to gain experience toward an inactive ed, so everyone can battle at their full strength!!

just three simple rule:
when active is clicked, so are the training button.
training button will only be visible after an destiny have been active.
training button can be use at any time without visiting a fate npc

[garlor]

it would be nice if this was added, but it's not needed at all, I'd rather they focus on fixing bugs than doing this

[danotmano1998]

which allow player to gain exp toward an inactive destiny

Asked for by many people many times over in many different ways.
Good luck on this, it's been met by deafening Turbine silence since destinies were implemented.
Maybe this thread will be "the one" that changes the status quo. Hope springs eternal.

[DethTrip]

I, and most likely everyone that uses destinies, agree 100%. For those that want fate points and epic destiny feats, being forced to play in a caster destiny when you're a pure barbarian or pretty much any melee build and vise versa is really stupid. I hope with enough complaints and a little thought that common sense will prevail.

[Dandonk]

Oh, please, yes.

[DeKalbSun]

I, and most likely everyone that uses destinies, agree 100%. For those that want fate points and epic destiny feats, being forced to play in a caster destiny when you're a pure barbarian or pretty much any melee build and vise versa is really stupid. I hope with enough complaints and a little thought that common sense will prevail.

I don't agree. Why should a character get xp in a tree they are not actively using? It is not even a requirement to earn Fate Points.
If you want them, put in the work and get them.

[MartinusWyllt]

...Why should a character get xp in a tree they are not actively using?...

Just buy that store item...oh, wait, that's gone now.

[rest]

They could placate the player base and sell more items if they just brought shears back to the store. Win/win for both players and turbine!


But the sound of silence coming from turbine are deafening. And with the imminent Epic Reincarnation process, I have zero belief that they will now, or at any point in the future, change the epic destiny mechanics.

[Qhualor]

I don't agree. Why should a character get xp in a tree they are not actively using? It is not even a requirement to earn Fate Points.
If you want them, put in the work and get them.

I have to partially disagree. Earn the twists you want by leveling through that particular destiny. Makes 0 sense to level through 3/4 of the destinies you wont ever twist from to earn enough fate points for twists. This way you are still putting in the work for that twist, fun factor is not seriously decreased, characters can still maintain their power and not wasting time and effort in useless off destinies.

[kned225]

The?*sound of silence coming from turbine are deafening. And with the imminent Epic Reincarnation process, I have zero belief that they will now, or at any point in the future, change the epic destiny mechanics.

Agreed. My advice to people is, unless you're heavy into the raid scene, stay away from leveling your main destiny. Its easy to get hooked on that main and it makes everything else feel like ****. Do the worst first

I know its a game, its supposed to be fun and ideally it'd be nice to spend all that time in the place thats the most fun. But in this system, if u want the points...dont get hooked on the main

Ive always liked the 50% penalty idea

[DeKalbSun]

I have to partially disagree. Earn the twists you want by leveling through that particular destiny. Makes 0 sense to level through 3/4 of the destinies you wont ever twist from to earn enough fate points for twists. This way you are still putting in the work for that twist, fun factor is not seriously decreased, characters can still maintain their power and not wasting time and effort in useless off destinies.

I could somewhat get behind this, but with the OP's system, you could get the twist without ever stepping foot in the tree. That's
why I don't agree with the OP's proposed system.

[schelsullivan]

I agree that grinding through useless destinies was a pain, Ive did on my main but doubt I do it again. But XP at the full rate I do not agree with. I think training at a reduced rate of XP is in order.

[DethTrip]

I don't agree. Why should a character get xp in a tree they are not actively using? It is not even a requirement to earn Fate Points.
If you want them, put in the work and get them.

You will still put in the work. You just won't be forced to be in a caster destiny when you're a melee and vise versa. Playing games is supposed to be fun. So why not make it fun to work toward a goal rather than annoying? I don't see how that's being lazy, as you are suggesting.

[FalseFlag]

I don't agree. Why should a character get xp in a tree they are not actively using? It is not even a requirement to earn Fate Points.
If you want them, put in the work and get them.

Because the entire implementation of Epic Destinies is ****. That's why. That said, the goal is to keep you logged in and grinding, so I dont' see this change happening anytime soon. Not until they add something that effectively invalidates ED.

[DeKalbSun]

You will still put in the work. You just won't be forced to be in a caster destiny when you're a melee and vise versa. Playing games is supposed to be fun. So why not make it fun to work toward a goal rather than annoying? I don't see how that's being lazy, as you are suggesting.

I'm not suggesting anyone is being lazy, I just happen to disagree with the proposed implementation. Something that is called
"Epic" should not just be handed to you. You can max out your main E.D. and stay in it. No problem. You want to twist in
"Epic" abilities from other classes, you should have to work at it and earn it. Maybe the system Turbine is using now
is not the best, but I have yet to see a proposed system that I feel would be a qualified replacement.

[Grosbeak07]

I'm not suggesting anyone is being lazy, I just happen to disagree with the proposed implementation. Something that is called
"Epic" should not just be handed to you. You can max out your main E.D. and stay in it. No problem. You want to twist in
"Epic" abilities from other classes, you should have to work at it and earn it. Maybe the system Turbine is using now
is not the best, but I have yet to see a proposed system that I feel would be a qualified replacement.

Best idea would be to remove fate points from ED levels. Make it a total xp earned thing and something could continue to earn even after you capped a destiny. Much like how they have described Karma in Epic TR.

[ThomasHunter]

I also agree that (active) leveling in an ED that is useless is an awful feeling. I've posted this in another thread that was similar (I think there have been many!).

As someone above put it, the "fun factor" would definitely go up (it IS a game after all) and all of the work would still be done. I think some reduced value of XP is fine, but hopefully not too punitive. Again, this is a GAME and it should be fun. Lead the players to do what they want to do (play in an ED that makes sense) and not in an ED that makes little to no sense.

I had also put forth that having another pair of tree connections would be quite nice. Working from a Cleric ED to a Wizard ED for a couple of useful twists seems WAY to awful for me to contemplate on my main cleric. Booo.

[Ashlayna]

I also agree that (active) leveling in an ED that is useless is an awful feeling. I've posted this in another thread that was similar (I think there have been many!).

As someone above put it, the "fun factor" would definitely go up (it IS a game after all) and all of the work would still be done. I think some reduced value of XP is fine, but hopefully not too punitive. Again, this is a GAME and it should be fun. Lead the players to do what they want to do (play in an ED that makes sense) and not in an ED that makes little to no sense.

I had also put forth that having another pair of tree connections would be quite nice. Working from a Cleric ED to a Wizard ED for a couple of useful twists seems WAY to awful for me to contemplate on my main cleric. Booo.

Boo indeed. This is exactly why I wouldn't support this change. Not only are people now earning fate points for free, but they are earning their twists too. Sadly, I saw this coming the last time this topic came up.

[Qhualor]

Thing is unfortunately is that there is probably no hope for a better change. Now that we have more knowledge of ER, its apparent the devs still want us to level through useless off destinies. If you want completionist or the PL benefit from an off sphere, than we will have to go through the same off destiny grind. If I am dragging my feet through off destinies for fate points, having 0 fun and reducing my play time, epic PLs or completionist is not an option I will take advantage of.

[burningwind]

I could somewhat get behind this, but with the OP's system, you could get the twist without ever stepping foot in the tree. That's
why I don't agree with the OP's proposed system.

so it make sense for a person with no casting ability at all to study the Magister path, and achieve the upmost goal? the way they implement destiny make no sense. fate point should not be link to the total level of ed you achieve. it make no sense to require a barb to study in arcane circle so he could twist a tier 4 ability from martial circle.

[Charononus]

I don't agree. Why should a character get xp in a tree they are not actively using? It is not even a requirement to earn Fate Points.
If you want them, put in the work and get them.

Because

fun > not fun

[GotSomeQuestions]

If you want to earn XP at a reduced rate, and apply it to a destiny you're not using, you can already do that. Here's how!

Step one: be in main destiny.
Step two: complete all the quests in a saga. Fun, fun.
Step three: switch to disliked destiny.
Step four: claim saga XP reward.

Is this a good enough solution? Obviously not. But if you hate playing off destinies, it's an option that's available right now, in-game.

[DeKalbSun]

so it make sense for a person with no casting ability at all to study the Magister path, and achieve the upmost goal? the way they implement destiny make no sense. fate point should not be link to the total level of ed you achieve. it make no sense to require a barb to study in arcane circle so he could twist a tier 4 ability from martial circle.

I never said Turbine's system was the best. You don't have to max the destinies to get the Fate Point either. All you need is three levels to
get a Fate Point. Three levels is easy, especially with Epic XP. Something as "Epic" as a Tier 4 twist shouldn't be handed to you.

[burningwind]

If you want to earn XP at a reduced rate, and apply it to a destiny you're not using, you can already do that. Here's how!

Step one: be in main destiny.
Step two: complete all the quests in a saga. Fun, fun.
Step three: switch to disliked destiny.
Step four: claim saga XP reward.

Is this a good enough solution? Obviously not. But if you hate playing off destinies, it's an option that's available right now, in-game.

and you ever tried to cap all your destiny through saga?? are you insane? any idea how many saga you have to run, how many hour it take to do this? not to mentioned that this is not efficient at all~~~ sure if you enjoy stick with one toon, teaming with people who gimp because of destiny or the type that solo 100% of the game. be my guest~~ am just saying that this game would be much more fun with this system implemented. the grinding it already a pain, grinding in gimp stats is even worse. tired of ring bell or id all day~~

p.s. sometime it seem people are crazy or out of their mind. they go against something that would benefit everyone while not disturbing the balance. it is so hard to understand how could anyone get so s...hmm maybe not.. not ready to be ban again =P

[Gauthaag]

what about getting completionist by running same life again and again? that would be awesome too. /sarcasm off


its wonderful how are people lazy to adapt

[burningwind]

what about getting completionist by running same life again and again? that would be awesome too. /sarcasm off


its wonderful how are people lazy to adapt

please explain how you adept a barb wtih arcane circle. please explain how spell dc and int/cha bonus will help a barb swing his axe.. completetionist is a different thing, you tr yourself to fit the class and ability. if you tr into a wiz you are a wiz with all casting ability, but a barb with arcane ed will not granting him any casting ability, none of the bonus ever do anything to benefit him.

in real life you could read book, or study. but this is game, you earn experience by fighting and murder~~ so a barb who couldn't cast a single spell could achieve the arcane destiny by swing his axe at enemy. does this sound right to you?

[Gauthaag]

please explain how you adept a barb wtih arcane circle. please explain how spell dc and int/cha bonus will help a barb swing his axe.. completetionist is a different thing, you tr yourself to fit the class and ability. if you tr into a wiz you are a wiz with all casting ability, but a barb with arcane ed will not granting him any casting ability, none of the bonus ever do anything to benefit him.

in real life you could read book, or study. but this is game, you earn experience by fighting and murder~~ so a barb who couldn't cast a single spell could achieve the arcane destiny by swing his axe at enemy. does this sound right to you?

if u re single focused on swinging your axe, and think its only thing ur barb can do, well , it just your problem. swing swing swing....must be fun

u re just ignoring fact that even arcane eds have several useful passives, which can be useful - i understand, its not about swinging xe, so its invisible to u.

I m actually having fun playing off destinies and finding all those unexpected synergies or abilities i was not aware of. and if its realy off, i ll just tr to better suited class, problem solved

[Qhualor]

what about getting completionist by running same life again and again? that would be awesome too. /sarcasm off


its wonderful how are people lazy to adapt

laziness has nothing to do with it. this is just a fallback response when people cant give a good reason why it makes sense for barbs to level through Arcane spheres and wizards to level through primal spheres. just like the other 100 threads on this very subject, no one has been able to present a good reason to do this.

BTW, you will be able to get epic completionist by running the same life over and over again soon.

[Gauthaag]

laziness has nothing to do with it. this is just a fallback response when people cant give a good reason why it makes sense for barbs to level through Arcane spheres and wizards to level through primal spheres. just like the other 100 threads on this very subject, no one has been able to present a good reason to do this.

BTW, you will be able to get epic completionist by running the same life over and over again soon.

reason is simple ... u want fate points? earn it. u can play in your favourite destiny forever, u just get no twist - u dont need them. its optional.

if i want completionist, i will have to run arcane lifes, which i dont like - i m doing it making splits (no hearts), i m adapting to problem.


what will people ask next ? substituting one quest for another, cause the original one is too difficult? ....Oh, i forgot - that actually happened

[toaftoaf]

suck it up, its not that bad. and yes i have all mine maxed.. for all the ties a ranger needs her fire spells+100% :D

[toaftoaf]

suck it up, its not that bad. and yes i have all mine maxed.. for all the times a ranger needs her fire spells+100% :D
i wish edit worked

[Charononus]

suck it up, its not that bad. and yes i have all mine maxed.. for all the ties a ranger needs her fire spells+100% :D

I've got mine maxed too, but I also will never buy a character slot for an alt again because especially now that we can't farm for ed xp it's not worth the grind and un-fun portions of it. So if they want less money from people it sounds like a great option for turbine to never change it.

[uncleblue]

there should be another button beside "Active button" named "training", which allow player to gain exp toward an inactive destiny, we have several destiny and most of them does not benefit player at all. but we still have to max them all for fate point. please turbine, make it fair and nice for everyone. allow us to gain experience toward an inactive ed, so everyone can battle at their full strength!!

just three simple rule:
when active is clicked, so are the training button.
training button will only be visible after an destiny have been active.
training button can be use at any time without visiting a fate npc

It's called a "time-sink".

Welcome to MMO's.

[burningwind]

It's called a "time-sink".

Welcome to MMO's.

it is called "i didn't read before i reply"

you still have to grind everything, you still have to grind adjacent destiny to 3 or 5 to unlock. only difference is you can grind while staying in your prime sphere.

p.s. this does not allow you to trian in destiny you could not active..

[Qhualor]

reason is simple ... u want fate points? earn it. u can play in your favourite destiny forever, u just get no twist - u dont need them. its optional.

if i want completionist, i will have to run arcane lifes, which i dont like - i m doing it making splits (no hearts), i m adapting to problem.


what will people ask next ? substituting one quest for another, cause the original one is too difficult? ....Oh, i forgot - that actually happened

I have no problem earning fate points, but what sense does it make to level through off destinies to earn them? that's the question that cant be answered by the people who want to keep the system the way it is. what would be the problem earning fate points separately from ED xp and leveling in destinies that have twists you want? why not make a grindy, dull and painful system more fun and not nerfing character power just to get twists from other destinies?

[Qhualor]

suck it up, its not that bad. and yes i have all mine maxed.. for all the times a ranger needs her fire spells+100% :D
i wish edit worked

right click edit post and open in new window. you can edit that way.

[toaftoaf]

right click edit post and open in new window. you can edit that way.

thanks ill try that now :D

how odd, what a odd "feature" but at least someone figured out how to make it work. now about twists in 1-20 lvs? :D

[Qhualor]

It's called a "time-sink".

Welcome to MMO's.

time sinks are necessary, but fate point grind is the worst time sink in DDO, pointless and stupid.

[uncleblue]

it is called "i didn't read before i reply"

you still have to grind everything, you still have to grind adjacent destiny to 3 or 5 to unlock. only difference is you can grind while staying in your prime sphere.

p.s. this does not allow you to trian in destiny you could not active..

It's harder to do in an off destiny.

Greater chance of failure, takes more time.

Time sink.

Running to Fatespinner to swap to primary ED for raid: time sink.


Just because you didn't understand me doesn't mean I didn't read.

[Dartwick]

I, and most likely everyone that uses destinies, agree 100%. For those that want fate points and epic destiny feats, being forced to play in a caster destiny when you're a pure barbarian or pretty much any melee build and vise versa is really stupid. I hope with enough complaints and a little thought that common sense will prevail.

This.

Its fine playing a fighter or monk destiny when you would rather play another melee - but there is nothing fun or good about playing caster as a melee.

[uncleblue]

This.

Its fine playing a fighter or monk destiny when you would rather play another melee - but there is nothing fun or good about playing caster as a melee.

Fate points are optional.

You are setting that obstacle in front of yourself.

[Oxarhamar]

another one of the same.

just farm your ED to unlock your fate points like everyone else.

it was not that difficult.

[kned225]

This.

Its fine playing a fighter or monk destiny when you would rather play another melee - but there is nothing fun or good about playing caster as a melee.

It may not be as fun as your main, but why is it not fun? You still get to play the character you built and you'll probably find some pluses no matter what destiny you're in, like dodge or save bonuses

Unless you cant complete in off destinies, i dont see why its SO BAD. We all had to do it

[burningwind]

It's harder to do in an off destiny.

Greater chance of failure, takes more time.

Time sink.

Running to Fatespinner to swap to primary ED for raid: time sink.


Just because you didn't understand me doesn't mean I didn't read.

sink? people just run bell or id million times. this means less lfm, less team, less fun to the game. if you perfer everyone keep running same quest over and over against instead of playing hard content while gaining experience, then so be it. am not the only one playing this game, if you enjoy solo that much then so be it.



Fate points are optional.

You are setting that obstacle in front of yourself.

optional? then tome are also optional, gear are optional.. if you skip all the optional you can stay on korthos for the rest of your life.


It may not be as fun as your main, but why is it not fun? You still get to play the character you built and you'll probably find some pluses no matter what destiny you're in, like dodge or save bonuses

Unless you cant complete in off destinies, i dont see why its SO BAD. We all had to do it

you want to run hard content, you run them because you want loot and experience. but if you use your prime ed, you do not get any experience, if you go with other ed you are gimp compare to your full stats.

does this sound fair to other player in your team? or you can solo ee with gimp destiny??

p.s. i don't really see why people are against this, i guess they need more wipe in ee content... or they enjoy gimp so much they couldn't resist to gimp everyone

[Soulfurnace]

thanks ill try that now :D

how odd, what a odd "feature" but at least someone figured out how to make it work. now about twists in 1-20 lvs? :D
Twists at 1-20 are a nono, not WAI. Things like that aren't allowed on forums, goes against some rule... there's so many rules. D:

[Qhualor]

another one of the same.

just farm your ED to unlock your fate points like everyone else.

it was not that difficult.

to you maybe if you don't mind running just norm/hard. some of us don't want to be the burden in a group or the gimp that gets carried in a group in EE. some of us don't want to feel limited to what we can do in the game because we want to take full advantage of a system, but its at a cost of losing big in character power.

[Jay203]

no... just no

unless they want to give the ability to lvl towards my other class lives while i'm on my main build

[supott]

i think they are not very generous with twists of fate.

But i also think being able to have your favorite destiny and leveling others at the same time defeats the purpose of twists of fate - like having ur cake and eating it too.

Best you can do is 'get used to' a Destinyless character.

[Ashlayna]

no... just no

unless they want to give the ability to lvl towards my other class lives while i'm on my main build

That's my thought. I might even go for completionist, instead of just leveling the lives I want.

[burningwind]

no... just no

unless they want to give the ability to lvl towards my other class lives while i'm on my main build


i think they are not very generous with twists of fate.

But i also think being able to have your favorite destiny and leveling others at the same time defeats the purpose of twists of fate - like having ur cake and eating it too.

Best you can do is 'get used to' a Destinyless character.


That's my thought. I might even go for completionist, instead of just leveling the lives I want.


oh well.. i guess some people do enjoy wipe and solo. ill continue farming id and bell for destiny~~ hopefully you three will never make new character =P~~

[Jay203]

oh well.. i guess some people do enjoy wipe and solo. ill continue farming id and bell for destiny~~ hopefully you three will never make new character =P~~
oh, i make new characters all the time
just that i build the characters in a way that's fun for me to play, with or without destiny
having destiny only adds to the fun, it doesn't take away the enjoyment i planned for the build i created

[burningwind]

oh, i make new characters all the time
just that i build the characters in a way that's fun for me to play, with or without destiny
having destiny only adds to the fun, it doesn't take away the enjoyment i planned for the build i created

yea good luck beating ee with a team without destiny~~ hope you enjoy it

p.s. why don't you try to run ee stormhorn without destiny? see if you find it fun..

[Jay203]

yea good luck beating ee with a team without destiny~~ hope you enjoy it

p.s. why don't you try to run ee stormhorn without destiny? see if you find it fun..

don't care for stormhorn much to begin with
devs are being lazy in making a challenge so they're all basically more immunities, more hp, hits 50x harder
that's not fun with or without destiny

[Uska]

You shouldnt get any exp for a destiny unless your in that destiny period.

[Jay203]

You shouldnt get any exp for a destiny unless your in that destiny period.
*high fives*

[Uska]

right click edit post and open in new window. you can edit that way.

Thanks for the tip

[burningwind]

You shouldnt get any exp for a destiny unless your in that destiny period.

and why is that? how would this benefit the game? shouldn't everyone be in their prime when they are questing or grinding? or people should be gimp while farming something have nothing relate to their character build?

people are doing ed farm runs, where these could be replace with normal gameplay. there will be more epic lfm and people doing quest will be less gimp. they will survive better and hit harder..

i really couldn't understand why people are against this.. other then the fact they already done grinding all the destiny, so they want everyone else to enjoy their pain. at the cost of emptier sever and more wiping~~

p.s. hope someone go against this topic could explain why.. i don't see melee toon level up caster destiny with swing of axe make any sense either. not like once this been implement people couldn't active destiny like they use to able to.. just more option and better game play.. hmm why???

[Gauthaag]

again, u dont have to level arcane destiny with your barbarian. or do u?

by the way whats the problem switching to your main destiny for hard ones, wher full potential is needed and goin off for easier stuff, iam and i believe most of folks are doing this all the time.

yeah i d like to have similar system like for example was in Fable serie, where u get main portion of xps going towards the skills u used at moment u earn xps and slight portion which u ould allocate to skills as u wish, but im still fine with what we have and have fun with it.

[Soulfurnace]

again, u dont have to level arcane destiny with your barbarian. or do u?
Of course not!

My THF sorc is much better to level DI with. Not all of us like casters - as such, casting destinies are a PITA.

[Oxarhamar]

to you maybe if you don't mind running just norm/hard. some of us don't want to be the burden in a group or the gimp that gets carried in a group in EE. some of us don't want to feel limited to what we can do in the game because we want to take full advantage of a system, but its at a cost of losing big in character power.

your right

I don't mind running norm/hard although EE provides the best loot and the highest XP bonus when streaking
the XP per minute on EE even with streak is not better than running much faster in a lower difficulty (most of the time)

EE content you bring your A-game you bring your main destiny

EN/EH you level your off destiny (the XP per minute is better here anyways)

stop trying to level your destiny in EE and you'll have no problems at all.


You want to take full advantage of the system DO IT go level your off destinies in fast high XP EH content.

The number of times I see the same people over and over posting LEVEL OFF DESTINY TOO HARD you could have leveled all your destinies X10 already

step(1) get off forum
step(2) log in game
step(3) level off destiny EN/EH
step(4) max fate points WIN

edit* My destiny's are all Maxed and I mean MAXIMUM XP ACHIEVED not just full fate points so 21,780,000 XP

[Ashlayna]

oh well.. i guess some people do enjoy wipe and solo. ill continue farming id and bell for destiny~~ hopefully you three will never make new character =P~~

I'm almost out of slots on two accounts, and I'm VIP with both and have both expansions. Most of them will never get to 20, some will, eventually, once I finish my TR projects. Out of curiosity though, just what other endgame are you talking about, because for years, it's been run the same quests over and over and over, including Raids. So what's changing? The quests?

[Ashlayna]

and why is that? how would this benefit the game? shouldn't everyone be in their prime when they are questing or grinding? or people should be gimp while farming something have nothing relate to their character build?

people are doing ed farm runs, where these could be replace with normal gameplay. there will be more epic lfm and people doing quest will be less gimp. they will survive better and hit harder..

i really couldn't understand why people are against this.. other then the fact they already done grinding all the destiny, so they want everyone else to enjoy their pain. at the cost of emptier sever and more wiping~~

p.s. hope someone go against this topic could explain why.. i don't see melee toon level up caster destiny with swing of axe make any sense either. not like once this been implement people couldn't active destiny like they use to able to.. just more option and better game play.. hmm why???

So, the only difference between an ED farm run and normal gameplay is difficulty then? I'm going to use your own logic: The only reason that people want to be able to grind their twists and fate points in one Destiny is because they feel entitled to it simply because it's in the game. Go ahead, try to convince me how uber you are when you can't run an EE in an off destiny w/out wiping. As you "train" in these destinies, the sphere unlocks, and then you can "train" in the next sphere, and then the next until you run out of destinies to "train" in, all w/out ever changing from your main, and all while gaining xp in a destiny that you're not actively playing in, and yet, you object to training past lives in the same manner?

How hypocritical of you. It's not more options, or better game play to some of us, it's "I'm entitled to it, so you should just give it to me". All so you can do what you you're doing anyway in the "epic end game" this game has. I sincerely hope that they never cave to this, or the grinding simultaneous lives in Heroic levels. Exactly what challenge is there in running a quest that you've run x times for the last month at any difficulty. The first 3 or 4 times maybe, while you figure out what works and what doesn't, but after that, it's really not relevant is it? Unless you've never figured out what does and doesn't work? If that's the case, isn't that more of a "I can't do it, so I should be able to get them for free"? Before you get into "but it's not free, I still have to run the quests", no, you aren't. You're running the quest, but you're not running the destiny. You are asking to get xp in a class you're not actively playing.

[burningwind]

So, the only difference between an ED farm run and normal gameplay is difficulty then? I'm going to use your own logic: The only reason that people want to be able to grind their twists and fate points in one Destiny is because they feel entitled to it simply because it's in the game. Go ahead, try to convince me how uber you are when you can't run an EE in an off destiny w/out wiping. As you "train" in these destinies, the sphere unlocks, and then you can "train" in the next sphere, and then the next until you run out of destinies to "train" in, all w/out ever changing from your main, and all while gaining xp in a destiny that you're not actively playing in, and yet, you object to training past lives in the same manner?

How hypocritical of you. It's not more options, or better game play to some of us, it's "I'm entitled to it, so you should just give it to me". All so you can do what you you're doing anyway in the "epic end game" this game has. I sincerely hope that they never cave to this, or the grinding simultaneous lives in Heroic levels. Exactly what challenge is there in running a quest that you've run x times for the last month at any difficulty. The first 3 or 4 times maybe, while you figure out what works and what doesn't, but after that, it's really not relevant is it? Unless you've never figured out what does and doesn't work? If that's the case, isn't that more of a "I can't do it, so I should be able to get them for free"? Before you get into "but it's not free, I still have to run the quests", no, you aren't. You're running the quest, but you're not running the destiny. You are asking to get xp in a class you're not actively playing.

ok, according to your idea, when you switch to arcane circle you are playing it, but how do you play it without ability to casting arcane spell remain unknow to me. a barbarian who gain experience in arcane circle through swing his axe and choping his enemy to pieces. does this sound right to you?

ed farm is one or two fixed quest, low level. people run them only for ed. and usually alone or with one or two friend. and usually repeating these until all ed caped, which means they do not need any team, nor will they do any content until caped and ed maxed. this is one of the reason of why we have fewer lfm for epic level content. because most people level up and grind destiny starting from 20 to 28 straight in the ed farming.

also repeating same thing a million time is not game, it is not fun. the entire ed system design is falwed, ed is a very big part of the character ability. sometime over 30% of the power came from destiny, depending on build. A caster without their ed to boosting dc may not succeed as much as they could, and may lead to team wipe. a fighter without master bliz may not kill fast enough to clear the huge wave of mob before the team are over run. are you suggesting that ed is not part of requirement to do hard content these days? you may still be able to complete some hard content without ed, but it is not easy, even with ed it is mostly wipe. we don't have much population, and i would like people starting to quest instead of doing ed run on their own. it is not health for the game or themselves!

i ask for this for the greater good of this game, because it is needed to solve the issue in the epic content. when you run wheloon or stormhorn do you see lfm often? no, why? because at 28 you get no exp from id ed farm run, most of the people are too busy repeating same quest on their own instead of went out questing.

p.s. sure you are not hypocritical at all, you are chaotic evil alignment i can see clearly. epic destiny is not tr, you do not get completionist for doing so, nor do you get 36 point build or unlock hard/elite content without being vip. i can totally see the word behind your message, you want everyone so solo and repeating same stuff over and over again. until this game closed, how much Shar paid you to corrupt our lawful society? =P *smite evil

[DeKalbSun]

ok, according to your idea, when you switch to arcane circle you are playing it, but how do you play it without ability to casting arcane spell remain unknow to me. a barbarian who gain experience in arcane circle through swing his axe and choping his enemy to pieces. does this sound right to you?

ed farm is one or two fixed quest, low level. people run them only for ed. and usually alone or with one or two friend. and usually repeating these until all ed caped, which means they do not need any team, nor will they do any content until caped and ed maxed. this is one of the reason of why we have fewer lfm for epic level content. because most people level up and grind destiny starting from 20 to 28 straight in the ed farming.

also repeating same thing a million time is not game, it is not fun. the entire ed system design is falwed, ed is a very big part of the character ability. sometime over 30% of the power came from destiny, depending on build. A caster without their ed to boosting dc may not succeed as much as they could, and may lead to team wipe. a fighter without master bliz may not kill fast enough to clear the huge wave of mob before the team are over run. are you suggesting that ed is not part of requirement to do hard content these days? you may still be able to complete some hard content without ed, but it is not easy, even with ed it is mostly wipe. we don't have much population, and i would like people starting to quest instead of doing ed run on their own. it is not health for the game or themselves!

i ask for this for the greater good of this game, because it is needed to solve the issue in the epic content. when you run wheloon or stormhorn do you see lfm often? no, why? because at 28 you get no exp from id ed farm run, most of the people are too busy repeating same quest on their own instead of went out questing.

p.s. sure you are not hypocritical at all, you are chaotic evil alignment i can see clearly. epic destiny is not tr, you do not get completionist for doing so, nor do you get 36 point build or unlock hard/elite content without being vip. i can totally see the word behind your message, you want everyone so solo and repeating same stuff over and over again. until this game closed, how much Shar paid you to corrupt our lawful society? =P *smite evil

Just because folks disagree with your ideas does not make them evil. You say yourself, "even with ED it is mostly wipe" (which i disagree with)
so what does it matter if you are not in your main ED if you are gonna wipe anyway. You seem to have a hard time, maybe playing in your
off destiny is not the problem. And I see plenty of lfm's leveling destinies so I don't feel it leads to a solo only environment, perhaps the
even the opposite is true, that it leads to more grouping situations.

[Qhualor]

your right

I don't mind running norm/hard although EE provides the best loot and the highest XP bonus when streaking
the XP per minute on EE even with streak is not better than running much faster in a lower difficulty (most of the time)

EE content you bring your A-game you bring your main destiny

EN/EH you level your off destiny (the XP per minute is better here anyways)

stop trying to level your destiny in EE and you'll have no problems at all.


You want to take full advantage of the system DO IT go level your off destinies in fast high XP EH content.

The number of times I see the same people over and over posting LEVEL OFF DESTINY TOO HARD you could have leveled all your destinies X10 already

step(1) get off forum
step(2) log in game
step(3) level off destiny EN/EH
step(4) max fate points WIN

edit* My destiny's are all Maxed and I mean MAXIMUM XP ACHIEVED not just full fate points so 21,780,000 XP

I don't level in EE and don't even think about trying. I'm not the kind of player that enjoys coattail rides. What I want to do is play the game the way I enjoy it, which is having options open to me instead of limited character power having to run on difficulties that is better suited for ED grinding. I typically don't play xp/min either. I do do it sometimes, but its not the norm for me. I have fun running through the entire quest breaking things and killing everything. Its not really fun for me to complete quests at lightening speed and usually sloppy play goes hand in hand with this kind of play style.

Leveling off destinies isn't too hard. Leveling off destinies is painful and grindy. I hate the current system and think it needs improvement so players can play without feeling limited and playing their characters in limited form. Why people are against improvement just boggles my mind. It is THE WORST grind in the game.

[burningwind]

Just because folks disagree with your ideas does not make them evil. You say yourself, "even with ED it is mostly wipe" (which i disagree with)
so what does it matter if you are not in your main ED if you are gonna wipe anyway. You seem to have a hard time, maybe playing in your
off destiny is not the problem. And I see plenty of lfm's leveling destinies so I don't feel it leads to a solo only environment, perhaps the
even the opposite is true, that it leads to more grouping situations.

disagree doesn't make people evil, but disagree a good idea that will benefit everyone without a reason is evil. as i said, there are two reason this should be done. *smite evil again

1) increase epic level LFM, people will be grouping alot more if they don't have to solo ed farm all day long.
2) making almost everyone less gimp, they now can be in their full strength.(and happier while playing)

p.s. you see plenty of lfm levleing destinies(by plenty you mean once per day? am on sarlona, which sever are you suggesting?? most people just farm alone), but is it healthy for the game? so everyone should farm their destiny to 28 leaving most of the content untouched?? so game is all about repeating same stuff million times?? is this WAI?

edit: admit it, you are chaotic evil, *casting protection from evil on self

[kned225]

It is THE WORST grind in the game.

To get the 15-16million or so xp needed to get 5 in all the destinies (completely unnecessary on most builds), its actually about the same amount of work as a legend tr life which ppl seem to do happily by running the same quests over and over again

Just think of it like doing your paladin completionist life

[Qhualor]

To get the 15-16million or so xp needed to get 5 in all the destinies (completely unnecessary on most builds), its actually about the same amount of work as a legend tr life which ppl seem to do happily by running the same quests over and over again

Just think of it like doing your paladin completionist life

I don't mind the heroic TR grind. At least I am playing a class that actually has enhancements, feats and gear suited for that class. My barbarian leveling through Arcane or Divine benefits nothing from them.

[burningwind]

To get the 15-16million or so xp needed to get 5 in all the destinies (completely unnecessary on most builds), its actually about the same amount of work as a legend tr life which ppl seem to do happily by running the same quests over and over again

Just think of it like doing your paladin completionist life

when you are doing paladin life you have all ability of a paladin, but when you are in paladin ed do you gain ability of paladin. a mage in paladin ed, can you now tank as a paladin could??

p.s. and why would people stand the boredom and repetitive when they can enjoy the game and achieve the same goal?? because some people's jealousy and selfishness? they want everyone to felt their pain?? XD *smite evil

[DeKalbSun]

disagree doesn't make people evil, but disagree a good idea that will benefit everyone without a reason is evil. as i said, there are two reason this should be done. *smite evil again

1) increase epic level LFM, people will be grouping alot more if they don't have to solo ed farm all day long.
2) making almost everyone less gimp, they now can be in their full strength.

p.s. you see plenty of lfm levleing destinies(by plenty you mean once per day? am on sarlona, which sever are you suggesting?? most people just farm alone), but is it healthy for the game? so everyone should farm their destiny to 28 leaving most of the content untouched?? so game is all about repeating same stuff million times?? is this WAI?

I'm on Orien and yes I see it quite often. I don't run the same quest over and over. There are a mulititude of quests available. Run the House D chain.
Don't like that one? The harbor has some Epic quests as well. Then we have gianthold, eveningstar, the red fens. What do you when you've
run all the quests? Because yes, there is not an infinite number, you are going to either repeat some quests or quit the game because you
are finished and have run them all.

Most people farm alone? Where do you get that? I group for mosts quest I do, either thru lfm or guild. People who solo like to solo
and would probably solo even with your system in place.

Also, just because you think your system is a good idea does not mean everyone does. Certainly not 100% as you stated.

[Ashlayna]

Ok, so what am I missing with end game, are the a whole slew of quests at 28 so that nobody is running quests over and over, regardless of what destiny they happen to be in? No? So end game is running the same quests over and over and over? Given that the latter is actually true, what difference does it make? Because grinding off destinies is unfun since it makes you run the same quests over and over, but under this nightmare of a proposal, you'll be running a lot of different quests, apparently some that don't even exist, instead? You see, no matter how you're doing it, your "fatal flaw" of this scenario is that you're still going to be running the same, max xp per minute quests over and over. That is the only end game that this game offers. You can try to deny this if you wish, but that doesn't change the truth of the situation.

[DethTrip]

And after all this arguing, the point still remains, playing a melee through a caster destiny and vise versa is not fun. Playing a game is supposed to be fun. Grind is fine, as long as it's fun. There needs to be a way to earn fate points that is fun. And of course earning fate points is optional, everything is optional, even playing the game at all is optional, so that comment is just silly. People play the game to build their characters up so most want to take advantage of any option that will make it better. The options to build a character should be fun, and clearly, playing a melee through a caster destiny and vise versa is not fun. Also, I strongly agree with burningwind that the notion that you're character is 'learning' the destiny as you play through it is silly. As he said, a barbarian swinging his axe while playing through a caster destiny does not teach him anything about that destiny. He does not cast one single spell. It's really quite senseless and again, not fun. Let's make grinding out twists of fate fun turbine cause as it is now, its very much not fun.

[eonfreon]

Ok, so what am I missing with end game, are the a whole slew of quests at 28 so that nobody is running quests over and over, regardless of what destiny they happen to be in? No? So end game is running the same quests over and over and over? Given that the latter is actually true, what difference does it make? Because grinding off destinies is unfun since it makes you run the same quests over and over, but under this nightmare of a proposal, you'll be running a lot of different quests, apparently some that don't even exist, instead? You see, no matter how you're doing it, your "fatal flaw" of this scenario is that you're still going to be running the same, max xp per minute quests over and over. That is the only end game that this game offers. You can try to deny this if you wish, but that doesn't change the truth of the situation.

Well, the difference that it would make, for me at least, is that I would play more. Right now, I'm capped in level and Fate Points. As the system remains, I have no desire to level through it again. I'm willing to play the content over and over. What I'm not willing to do is play a game that insists on making me play in weak destinies and abandon my current progress to advance my character. It does not inspire me to play the game.

So I'm only occasionally playing a character that is capped, rather than leveling multiple characters through a system I find ill-conceived.

That is my current scenario and the flaw I find in the current system. Changing the way Fate Points work won't magically add new content. But it will make me enjoy playing the current content more.

[Ashlayna]

Well, the difference that it would make, for me at least, is that I would play more. Right now, I'm capped in level and Fate Points. As the system remains, I have no desire to level through it again. I'm willing to play the content over and over. What I'm not willing to do is play a game that insists on making me play in weak destinies and abandon my current progress to advance my character. It does not inspire me to play the game.

So I'm only occasionally playing a character that is capped, rather than leveling multiple characters through a system I find ill-conceived.

That is my current scenario and the flaw I find in the current system. Changing the way Fate Points work won't magically add new content. But it will make me enjoy playing the current content more.

My real issue is with the OP's claim that not playing in the chosen destiny causes people to play the same quests over and over, as opposed to the actual condition of playing the same quests over and over actually is the end game. I can't dispute what you say about what will make you play more, or have more fun, that is subjective. However, I can look at the implication that the end game is actually more than what it is. That is objective. The end game doesn't magically change because one can run in a chosen destiny, even though, as in your case, the game's level of fun might.

This doesn't change the fact that I believe that if you want twists from a specific destiny you should have to grind that destiny to get them. The op's proposal means that one would never have to change destinies to get credit for all of them.

[Oxarhamar]

I don't level in EE and don't even think about trying. I'm not the kind of player that enjoys coattail rides. What I want to do is play the game the way I enjoy it, which is having options open to me instead of limited character power having to run on difficulties that is better suited for ED grinding. I typically don't play xp/min either. I do do it sometimes, but its not the norm for me. I have fun running through the entire quest breaking things and killing everything. Its not really fun for me to complete quests at lightening speed and usually sloppy play goes hand in hand with this kind of play style.

Leveling off destinies isn't too hard. Leveling off destinies is painful and grindy. I hate the current system and think it needs improvement so players can play without feeling limited and playing their characters in limited form. Why people are against improvement just boggles my mind. It is THE WORST grind in the game.

Your the one who chooses to sniff the flowers.

how many times will you run the quest breaking every breakable slowing yourself down.

Leveling ALL destinies to me was boring because I was beyond lvl 20 and not gaining a new Heroic Past life.

One thing it was NOT was grindy because, I chose the highest return for effort quests and just got it done.

I still break all the breakables, disable all traps, find all secret doors, do all optionals but, only if it is not determent to my goal XP.

BTW when I farmed my EDs I did not run a single XP pot

I rarely use XP pots only free ones from the Free Sample of the Week or Daily Dice..


I keep hearing everyone say "NOT FUN" for me "FUN" is watching my XP bar fill the faster the better.

Completing Quests at lightning speed for me introduces a new challenge each time trying to increase my efficiency.

[burningwind]

My real issue is with the OP's claim that not playing in the chosen destiny causes people to play the same quests over and over, as opposed to the actual condition of playing the same quests over and over actually is the end game. I can't dispute what you say about what will make you play more, or have more fun, that is subjective. However, I can look at the implication that the end game is actually more than what it is. That is objective. The end game doesn't magically change because one can run in a chosen destiny, even though, as in your case, the game's level of fun might.

This doesn't change the fact that I believe that if you want twists from a specific destiny you should have to grind that destiny to get them. The op's proposal means that one would never have to change destinies to get credit for all of them.

playing the same quest over and over again is not end game. there is ransack on your eighth time open that chest.

repeating hard content is fun, and people will enjoy the challenge. but without prime ed not many would choose to waste their time on hard content, instead they will zerg easy content alone or with several friends so they could cap their ed. in the end many people are doing this, which is why lfm have gone down for epic level.. plus the fact that it is grindy and terribly boring leveling irreverent destiny, people often quit the game, or only play once a while because of this.

also even with this implement, you still need to grind the same amount of experience. the only difference is that you could grind in your prime state, instead of being gimp. you could enjoy the game while capping all your destiny..

p.s. admit it, you are just evil *smite evil

[DethTrip]

I have created a thread with my idea here https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/428245-Proposed-Epic-Destiny-Fix

[Charononus]

p.s. admit it, you are just evil *smite evil

I'm chaotic evil and I resent you calling him evil. evil has higher standards and supports changing ed's.

[burningwind]

I'm chaotic evil and I resent you calling him evil. evil has higher standards and supports changing ed's.

ok you win~~ ill set him on tn path =P

[harry-pancreas]

so you could max a destiny without using it even once ? That's ridiculous, try to become a good a good mechanic without fixing a car in your entire life o.0

[Qhualor]

Your the one who chooses to sniff the flowers.

how many times will you run the quest breaking every breakable slowing yourself down.

Leveling ALL destinies to me was boring because I was beyond lvl 20 and not gaining a new Heroic Past life.

One thing it was NOT was grindy because, I chose the highest return for effort quests and just got it done.

I still break all the breakables, disable all traps, find all secret doors, do all optionals but, only if it is not determent to my goal XP.

BTW when I farmed my EDs I did not run a single XP pot

I rarely use XP pots only free ones from the Free Sample of the Week or Daily Dice..


I keep hearing everyone say "NOT FUN" for me "FUN" is watching my XP bar fill the faster the better.

Completing Quests at lightning speed for me introduces a new challenge each time trying to increase my efficiency.

oh, so I have been playing wrong. your solution to my ED grinding is that I am not zerging fast enough? first, that not a solution. that is a play style. my play style may not be zerging normally, but its not flower sniffing either. I can maximize my xp per quest pretty quickly actually and by doing that I am not running the same quests over and over again. by maximizing my xp per quest, I run them usually not more than 2 times and it helps to keep the boredom down. I like to enjoy my leveling process and not watch it whiz by my head so I can complain later that theres nothing left to do in the game. there are no chocolate chip cookies for completing quests fast. I know, I have tried. play style has absolutely nothing to do with the current ED grind.

second, I have 1 character that has max fate points and I ED grind Rusted Blades the fast way before quest xp ransack. it took me about 3 weeks playing just 2 hours a day, which is 3-4 hours less than how long I usually play. sure, I could have run other quests, but I did it because I wanted the grind over with as fast as possible and 2 hours per day was actually more than I could stomach. I had to stop playing the way I like playing so I could get the painful grind over with as soon as possible. I didn't drink xp pots either because im not rewarding for a system I think sucks.

thirdly, the proposal that many people seem to like, which is a separate fate point xp bar and leveling off destinies for twists that you want from, would in no way affect your play style. instead what it would do is make the system more fun and people could enjoy playing their characters in off destinies and not feel limited to what they can do in the game with 0 sacrifice to play style. this change would in no way affect your zerg play style at all, which is why I don't understand why you or anyone else would be so against improving the system. you could still zerg those off destinies and if you think playing off destinies is fun and challenging, you still have that option.

let me repeat myself. no impact on yours or anyone elses zerg play style. instead, it makes it so I can play and everyone else can play the way they find fun. I would be able to feel like I can play my barbarian in EE with a group in Legendary, which is where I want to twist something and not feel like a wasted party slot and still have fun and be challenged.

[Charononus]

oh, so I have been playing wrong. your solution to my ED grinding is that I am not zerging fast enough? first, that not a solution. that is a play style. my play style may not be zerging normally, but its not flower sniffing either. I can maximize my xp per quest pretty quickly actually and by doing that I am not running the same quests over and over again. by maximizing my xp per quest, I run them usually not more than 2 times and it helps to keep the boredom down. I like to enjoy my leveling process and not watch it whiz by my head so I can complain later that theres nothing left to do in the game. there are no chocolate chip cookies for completing quests fast. I know, I have tried. play style has absolutely nothing to do with the current ED grind.

second, I have 1 character that has max fate points and I ED grind Rusted Blades the fast way before quest xp ransack. it took me about 3 weeks playing just 2 hours a day, which is 3-4 hours less than how long I usually play. sure, I could have run other quests, but I did it because I wanted the grind over with as fast as possible and 2 hours per day was actually more than I could stomach. I had to stop playing the way I like playing so I could get the painful grind over with as soon as possible. I didn't drink xp pots either because im not rewarding for a system I think sucks.

thirdly, the proposal that many people seem to like, which is a separate fate point xp bar and leveling off destinies for twists that you want from, would in no way affect your play style. instead what it would do is make the system more fun and people could enjoy playing their characters in off destinies and not feel limited to what they can do in the game with 0 sacrifice to play style. this change would in no way affect your zerg play style at all, which is why I don't understand why you or anyone else would be so against improving the system. you could still zerg those off destinies and if you think playing off destinies is fun and challenging, you still have that option.

let me repeat myself. no impact on yours or anyone elses zerg play style. instead, it makes it so I can play and everyone else can play the way they find fun. I would be able to feel like I can play my barbarian in EE with a group in Legendary, which is where I want to twist something and not feel like a wasted party slot and still have fun and be challenged.

I zerg everything but content I don't know, even then some people will probably consider me to be zerging. Zerging does not make the ed system better, it just makes the grind go faster.

The grind is still long and boring and probably the worst system ddo has in place.

[burningwind]

so you could max a destiny without using it even once ? That's ridiculous, try to become a good a good mechanic without fixing a car in your entire life o.0

good point, but please demonstrate how your melee class leveling arcane/divine destiny without being able to cast a single spell in your entire life.

or explain how your caster level up in primal/martial without ever lifting a blade/bow..

[Gauthaag]

good point, but please demonstrate how your melee class leveling arcane/divine destiny without being able to cast a single spell in your entire life.

or explain how your caster level up in primal/martial without ever lifting a blade/bow..

have u noticed lot of arcanes end in primal?
or maybe i m wrong with all those shiradis:)

[burningwind]

have u noticed lot of arcanes end in primal?
or maybe i m wrong with all those shiradis:)

well..shiradis is a exception.. couldn't understand why turbine design the destiny for caster.. still.. primal is more then just shiradis..

[Gauthaag]

well..shiradis is a exception.. couldn't understand why turbine design the destiny for caster.. still.. primal is more then just shiradis..

theres maybe more u dont understand, i just reviewed magister n draco tree only to find that u need spend no point in single spell enhancing ability, tho u could gain lot of beneficial passives.

but i understand it can be hard for single trick pony to leave the easiest way.

[Charononus]

well..shiradis is a exception.. couldn't understand why turbine design the destiny for caster.. still.. primal is more then just shiradis..
It was designed that way for caster druids. It working so well for arcanes is an unintended synergy.

theres maybe more u dont understand, i just reviewed magister n draco tree only to find that u need spend no point in single spell enhancing ability, tho u could gain lot of beneficial passives.

but i understand it can be hard for single trick pony to leave the easiest way.

I think you've never stepped into an ee if you think you can be anything but a gimp that gets carried if you are running your melee in magister.

[burningwind]

It was designed that way for caster druids. It working so well for arcanes is an unintended synergy.


not sure about this.. i mean only way to make shradi worth is missile/missile chain.. without these two shradi are not worth it imo... though i must admit a caster druid don't really have much of choice in this option.. XD

[Charononus]

not sure about this.. i mean only way to make shradi worth is missile/missile chain.. without these two shradi are not worth it imo... though i must admit a caster druid don't really have much of choice in this option.. XD

It works just not as well as arcanes true. But it does work very well for caster druids, probably better than anything else.

[Gauthaag]

It was designed that way for caster druids. It working so well for arcanes is an unintended synergy.


I think you've never stepped into an ee if you think you can be anything but a gimp that gets carried if you are running your melee in magister.

id never step into ee in other than my main destiny. but u dont need to run ee to gain xp for off destinies, right? i usually switch to my main destiny or at least strong off one when i m going to pug raid, just to be able contribute best way

[Charononus]

id never step into ee in other than my main destiny. but u dont need to run ee to gain xp for off destinies, right? i usually switch to my main destiny or at least strong off one when i m going to pug raid, just to be able contribute best way

And since eh is a boring slog who's only challenge is to stay awake in, the ed grind is a horrible boring slog. You see the problem now?

[Gauthaag]

And since eh is a boring slog who's only challenge is to stay awake in, the ed grind is a horrible boring slog. You see the problem now?

:) nope...when it gets boring i tr or run alt. till i get flagged to fot n citw next life i ll earn enough xp to fill about two new destinies just by leveling.

[burningwind]

:) nope...when it gets boring i tr or run alt. till i get flagged to fot n citw next life i ll earn enough xp to fill about two new destinies just by leveling.

would you perfer to play with your main ed while leveling other ones, our would you enjoy active a useless ed while you leveling?? plus it take 3 life to 28 to be able to cap all your ed..so playing three life without main ed, how does that felt? good? hope you enjoy it =P i certainly don't

[Gauthaag]

would you perfer to play with your main ed while leveling other ones, our would you enjoy active a useless ed while you leveling?? plus it take 3 life to 28 to be able to cap all your ed..so playing three life without main ed, how does that felt? good? hope you enjoy it =P i certainly don't

have u realized u can play next life as other class to suit your next ed?
and i m sure my recently trd warchanter -> battlesoul almost filled his divine sphere, and i had to fill gmf on way to get there, with almost no change to previous playstyle


and yeah, there are lot of things that could make my life easier...but usualy crying that world should change dont work:)

[Qhualor]

have u realized u can play next life as other class to suit your next ed?
and i m sure my recently trd warchanter -> battlesoul almost filled his divine sphere, and i had to fill gmf on way to get there, with almost no change to previous playstyle


and yeah, there are lot of things that could make my life easier...but usualy crying that world should change dont work:)

TRing into a class that best fits the ED you need to level through for fate points is a dumb option. not going to TR into Sorc just so my barb can get fate points in Arcane.

[Ashlayna]

ok, according to your idea, when you switch to arcane circle you are playing it, but how do you play it without ability to casting arcane spell remain unknow to me. a barbarian who gain experience in arcane circle through swing his axe and choping his enemy to pieces. does this sound right to you?

ed farm is one or two fixed quest, low level. people run them only for ed. and usually alone or with one or two friend. and usually repeating these until all ed caped, which means they do not need any team, nor will they do any content until caped and ed maxed. this is one of the reason of why we have fewer lfm for epic level content. because most people level up and grind destiny starting from 20 to 28 straight in the ed farming.

also repeating same thing a million time is not game, it is not fun. the entire ed system design is falwed, ed is a very big part of the character ability. sometime over 30% of the power came from destiny, depending on build. A caster without their ed to boosting dc may not succeed as much as they could, and may lead to team wipe. a fighter without master bliz may not kill fast enough to clear the huge wave of mob before the team are over run. are you suggesting that ed is not part of requirement to do hard content these days? you may still be able to complete some hard content without ed, but it is not easy, even with ed it is mostly wipe. we don't have much population, and i would like people starting to quest instead of doing ed run on their own. it is not health for the game or themselves!

i ask for this for the greater good of this game, because it is needed to solve the issue in the epic content. when you run wheloon or stormhorn do you see lfm often? no, why? because at 28 you get no exp from id ed farm run, most of the people are too busy repeating same quest on their own instead of went out questing.

p.s. sure you are not hypocritical at all, you are chaotic evil alignment i can see clearly. epic destiny is not tr, you do not get completionist for doing so, nor do you get 36 point build or unlock hard/elite content without being vip. i can totally see the word behind your message, you want everyone so solo and repeating same stuff over and over again. until this game closed, how much Shar paid you to corrupt our lawful society? =P *smite evil

The simple answer is, I won't. My arti will more than benefit from the arcane sphere, and by the time I run 3 Ranger and 3 Druid lives on it for the passive feats I want, I'll have unlocked all the twists I want. The same applies to my FvS with the divine tree, with the benefit of I'll have either the actual destiny, or the twists I want from the Primal tree after I finish the 3 Ranger lives I'm going to run. I won't have to run suboptimal destinies unless I find I don't have enough Fate Points, in which case, I can simply run them in my last life, which will be FvS again. Sorry you've locked yourself into Barbarian, and need all the help you can get to be marginally effective, I don't have that problem on either of these TRs.


playing the same quest over and over again is not end game. there is ransack on your eighth time open that chest.

repeating hard content is fun, and people will enjoy the challenge. but without prime ed not many would choose to waste their time on hard content, instead they will zerg easy content alone or with several friends so they could cap their ed. in the end many people are doing this, which is why lfm have gone down for epic level.. plus the fact that it is grindy and terribly boring leveling irreverent destiny, people often quit the game, or only play once a while because of this.

also even with this implement, you still need to grind the same amount of experience. the only difference is that you could grind in your prime state, instead of being gimp. you could enjoy the game while capping all your destiny..

p.s. admit it, you are just evil *smite evil

This is what end game is, running the same quests and raids over and over. There is no other end game. We don't have sieges, or PvP that gives xp and special PvP xp. We have grinding the same quests over and over, and that's it. As a VIP, I have a rather nice list of quests I can run, so I don't have to worry too much about chest ransack, but really, since you're going to have to grind out all that xp no matter what, you're going to run into that problem anyway, aren't you? You see, I played epic end game to 24 back when the cap was 25, and got bored to tears with it, so TRd out of it. I never had a problem in the content, at any difficulty. I know how to play and build my base character well enough that it's not an issue for me.

[Oxarhamar]

oh, so I have been playing wrong. your solution to my ED grinding is that I am not zerging fast enough? first, that not a solution. that is a play style. my play style may not be zerging normally, but its not flower sniffing either. I can maximize my xp per quest pretty quickly actually and by doing that I am not running the same quests over and over again. by maximizing my xp per quest, I run them usually not more than 2 times and it helps to keep the boredom down. I like to enjoy my leveling process and not watch it whiz by my head so I can complain later that theres nothing left to do in the game. there are no chocolate chip cookies for completing quests fast. I know, I have tried. play style has absolutely nothing to do with the current ED grind.

second, I have 1 character that has max fate points and I ED grind Rusted Blades the fast way before quest xp ransack. it took me about 3 weeks playing just 2 hours a day, which is 3-4 hours less than how long I usually play. sure, I could have run other quests, but I did it because I wanted the grind over with as fast as possible and 2 hours per day was actually more than I could stomach. I had to stop playing the way I like playing so I could get the painful grind over with as soon as possible. I didn't drink xp pots either because im not rewarding for a system I think sucks.

thirdly, the proposal that many people seem to like, which is a separate fate point xp bar and leveling off destinies for twists that you want from, would in no way affect your play style. instead what it would do is make the system more fun and people could enjoy playing their characters in off destinies and not feel limited to what they can do in the game with 0 sacrifice to play style. this change would in no way affect your zerg play style at all, which is why I don't understand why you or anyone else would be so against improving the system. you could still zerg those off destinies and if you think playing off destinies is fun and challenging, you still have that option.

let me repeat myself. no impact on yours or anyone elses zerg play style. instead, it makes it so I can play and everyone else can play the way they find fun. I would be able to feel like I can play my barbarian in EE with a group in Legendary, which is where I want to twist something and not feel like a wasted party slot and still have fun and be challenged.

no I said that choosing to sniff the flowers is not helping you get your fate points maxed. Zerging content is only a suggestion on how to do it faster.

reading the Reincarnation Reincarnated thread I see there that you commented something to the effect of:
having 1 Charicter maxed and the others are parked.

Your not going to gain any fate points that way but, good luck with that.

[burningwind]

The simple answer is, I won't. My arti will more than benefit from the arcane sphere, and by the time I run 3 Ranger and 3 Druid lives on it for the passive feats I want, I'll have unlocked all the twists I want. The same applies to my FvS with the divine tree, with the benefit of I'll have either the actual destiny, or the twists I want from the Primal tree after I finish the 3 Ranger lives I'm going to run. I won't have to run suboptimal destinies unless I find I don't have enough Fate Points, in which case, I can simply run them in my last life, which will be FvS again. Sorry you've locked yourself into Barbarian, and need all the help you can get to be marginally effective, I don't have that problem on either of these TRs.



This is what end game is, running the same quests and raids over and over. There is no other end game. We don't have sieges, or PvP that gives xp and special PvP xp. We have grinding the same quests over and over, and that's it. As a VIP, I have a rather nice list of quests I can run, so I don't have to worry too much about chest ransack, but really, since you're going to have to grind out all that xp no matter what, you're going to run into that problem anyway, aren't you? You see, I played epic end game to 24 back when the cap was 25, and got bored to tears with it, so TRd out of it. I never had a problem in the content, at any difficulty. I know how to play and build my base character well enough that it's not an issue for me.

your end game doesn't means end game for everyone, you can't expect everyone in game to tr three times.

either way this modify will not effect your game play. you are just selfish and jealous people may get conformable grinding, and you hate the game, you want the game to die. so you go against this idea, so people will solo more and not bother with the true end content.

plus usually when people planning on tr, they tr right at 20. they don't bother level themselves to 28~~ you do not get epic destiny experience in first 20 level~~~ either way you just want less lfm and more boredom gameplay~~ period

p.s. you keep talking about end game, end game.. have you reach max favor yet? have you defeat everything on epic, and farm ee version of named loot yet?? if you think end game is all about repeating same stuff over and over again, then perhaps you should get a Lxxe

[Qhualor]

no I said that choosing to sniff the flowers is not helping you get your fate points maxed. Zerging content is only a suggestion on how to do it faster.

reading the Reincarnation Reincarnated thread I see there that you commented something to the effect of:
having 1 Charicter maxed and the others are parked.

Your not going to gain any fate points that way but, good luck with that.

no, i said i have 1 character with max fate points and because there is no end game and i hate the current ED grind, i parked my main and now working on my alts for heroic past lives in hopes that the devs will make an improvement to the system. if they don't by the time i am done than i become a very casual player and just get my fate points when i feel like torturing myself.

and like i said also, i don't sniff flowers. i have a system of leveling that works well for me so i don't get bored running the same content as fast as possible over and over again. zerging is not a play style i find fun, but only do it at certain times like the fate point grind. i one and done quests fast maximizing my xp per quest and repeat no more than 2 times most of the time.

[walkin_dude]

I have no problem earning fate points, but what sense does it make to level through off destinies to earn them? that's the question that cant be answered by the people who want to keep the system the way it is. what would be the problem earning fate points separately from ED xp and leveling in destinies that have twists you want? why not make a grindy, dull and painful system more fun and not nerfing character power just to get twists from other destinies?

i guess my main question is, if we presume that you have managed to accrue a ton of fate points, what are you going to spend them on? you haven't leveled any other EDs, and you haven't unlocked any other spheres. So you have a really impressive number of fate points, but now you have to level some EDs so that you can actually use them . . .

[Qhualor]

i guess my main question is, if we presume that you have managed to accrue a ton of fate points, what are you going to spend them on? you haven't leveled any other EDs, and you haven't unlocked any other spheres. So you have a really impressive number of fate points, but now you have to level some EDs so that you can actually use them . . .

earning fate points would be just half of it. the other half would be you would need to unlock the twist you want by leveling in that destiny to spend the points. i don't see the sense in leveling through 2 destinies to get to a sphere with a destiny you want twists from and than leveling through more destinies to get to another sphere. we should just be able to pick a destiny we want to level in. right now, the current system is designed specifically to be nothing more than a time sink, but its the most pointless and painful time sink the devs have ever created.

[Uska]

It was designed that way for caster druids. It working so well for arcanes is an unintended synergy.


I think you've never stepped into an ee if you think you can be anything but a gimp that gets carried if you are running your melee in magister.

Done EE's on my monk in magister wasn't easy but I wasn't being carried I admit some classes it would be harder on than others

[Charononus]

Done EE's on my monk in magister wasn't easy but I wasn't being carried I admit some classes it would be harder on than others

I guarantee you were being carried in comparison to someone that was able to make a real dps contribution. You contributed so poorly there can be no debate on this. Yeah you can contribute, but you are contributing about 10% compared to what you could.

[Ashlayna]

your end game doesn't means end game for everyone, you can't expect everyone in game to tr three times.

either way this modify will not effect your game play. you are just selfish and jealous people may get conformable grinding, and you hate the game, you want the game to die. so you go against this idea, so people will solo more and not bother with the true end content.

plus usually when people planning on tr, they tr right at 20. they don't bother level themselves to 28~~ you do not get epic destiny experience in first 20 level~~~ either way you just want less lfm and more boredom gameplay~~ period

p.s. you keep talking about end game, end game.. have you reach max favor yet? have you defeat everything on epic, and farm ee version of named loot yet?? if you think end game is all about repeating same stuff over and over again, then perhaps you should get a Lxxe

Again with presuming you know anything about the way I choose to play. First, allow me to correct your math, which may be part and parcel of why you have problems playing the game: I will have a minimum of 7 lives on my FvS before it's done; 3 FvS, 3 Ranger, and then back to FvS. My static group is seriously considering going to 28 before TRing again to get the benefits of the epic destiny feat. Again, misconceptions abound. You base your assumptions on your inability to do something thinking that must mean that nobody can do it, and frankly, nothing could be farther from the truth.

Again with your "true end content" thing, assuming that people aren't just running the same quests over and over ad infinitum, another concept that is just plain wrong. Show of hands from anyone that has an infinite number of quests to run at end game so that they never have to repeat them. I'll wait, but I won't hold my breath. If you wish to refute this, instead of going off on your alignment tangent, post the list of quests you run that you never have to repeat any of them for end game. If you can't, drop it, because quite frankly, I find your insulting manner to be more of "I can't refute the point, so I'll just try to shout 'NO NO NO, IT'S NOT TRUE BECAUSE I SAID SO'". In other words, it just comes off lame, and really serves more to devalue your entire idea, rather than show that the premise you're basing it on is valid. So do actually refute me with facts, instead of the delusions that you're running on.

[Ashlayna]

I guarantee you were being carried in comparison to someone that was able to make a real dps contribution. You contributed so poorly there can be no debate on this. Yeah you can contribute, but you are contributing about 10% compared to what you could.

Source. Do you have the xp report from the end of the quests he was in to make this claim, or is it that you couldn't have done it, so nobody could?

[Charononus]

Source. Do you have the xp report from the end of the quests he was in to make this claim, or is it that you couldn't have done it, so nobody could?

I don't need a source because ed's add an extreme amount of power, so much so that anyone not running in their best destiny will be carried by anyone that is in a group regardless of difficulty, class, or player skill. If you can't see that enjoy your delusions.

Here's a great source I suggest you read up
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Destinies

[Ashlayna]

I don't need a source because ed's add an extreme amount of power, so much so that anyone not running in their best destiny will be carried by anyone that is in a group regardless of difficulty, class, or player skill. If you can't see that enjoy your delusions.

Here's a great source I suggest you read up
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Destinies

In other words, no, you don't. I don't need to see the list, I've been through a few of them, a few times myself.

[Charononus]

In other words, no, you don't. I don't need to see the list, I've been through a few of them, a few times myself.

Do I need to prove and source 3>2 to you to or that 1+1=2 in a base 10 system?

[burningwind]

Again with presuming you know anything about the way I choose to play. First, allow me to correct your math, which may be part and parcel of why you have problems playing the game: I will have a minimum of 7 lives on my FvS before it's done; 3 FvS, 3 Ranger, and then back to FvS. My static group is seriously considering going to 28 before TRing again to get the benefits of the epic destiny feat. Again, misconceptions abound. You base your assumptions on your inability to do something thinking that must mean that nobody can do it, and frankly, nothing could be farther from the truth.

Again with your "true end content" thing, assuming that people aren't just running the same quests over and over ad infinitum, another concept that is just plain wrong. Show of hands from anyone that has an infinite number of quests to run at end game so that they never have to repeat them. I'll wait, but I won't hold my breath. If you wish to refute this, instead of going off on your alignment tangent, post the list of quests you run that you never have to repeat any of them for end game. If you can't, drop it, because quite frankly, I find your insulting manner to be more of "I can't refute the point, so I'll just try to shout 'NO NO NO, IT'S NOT TRUE BECAUSE I SAID SO'". In other words, it just comes off lame, and really serves more to devalue your entire idea, rather than show that the premise you're basing it on is valid. So do actually refute me with facts, instead of the delusions that you're running on.

so it goes again.. all you are saying is "i don't need it, so no one shall have it", simple enough. you don't care anything about the game, or other player. all you care is you don't need this benefit, so no one should have it. this is the only thing i see in your words all these time, which is why i claim you were evil alignment. and indeed, imo you are evil alignment~~

your end game, your play style. they are only yours. if you are an alien, you can't expect everyone to be just like you~~~~~ and am sorry for you, because you will never understand my end game, if gear and farming been all your game play then i pity you~~

p.s. i never seen anyone as selfish as you are, this will not hurt anyone's profit. but just because you do not need this benefit you decide that no one should have it. unless you have any other statement i have nothing else to discuss with you.

[Qhualor]

Do I need to prove and source 3>2 to you to or that 1+1=2 in a base 10 system?

You can't win this argument with him. These are the people who actually think if you don't want to level off destinies with a class that benefits nothing from it, than you should TR into that class to make it easier

Or

These are the people that say playing your character with significant less character power in off destinies is fun and challenging to them so they don't want the system to change so most players would actually have fun. As if the proposed change that a lot of players like would make it so they couldn't level in off destinies and actually affect them.

Or

These are the players that see nothing wrong leveling off destinies on norm/hard and admit you shouldn't be running EE. Yeah because limiting your nerfed character is such a great idea.

[Ashlayna]

so it goes again.. all you are saying is "i don't need it, so no one shall have it", simple enough. you don't care anything about the game, or other player. all you care is you don't need this benefit, so no one should have it. this is the only thing i see in your words all these time, which is why i claim you were evil alignment. and indeed, imo you are evil alignment~~

your end game, your play style. they are only yours. if you are an alien, you can't expect everyone to be just like you~~~~~ and am sorry for you, because you will never understand my end game, if gear and farming been all your game play then i pity you~~

p.s. i never seen anyone as selfish as you are, this will not hurt anyone's profit. but just because you do not need this benefit you decide that no one should have it. unless you have any other statement i have nothing else to discuss with you.

So now you're saying that I'm the only one that has a static TR group. Here's the fatal flaw in your theory, it's a static group, which means, and it's sad that I need to point this out, that there are other people in it. That's what being in a group means, there are other people there. Why not ask your friends if they have a static group for content. I'm betting that most of them do, and possibly even some raid groups, or a pool of players to choose from for their group, hence the creation of guilds/channels to pull players from.

Yet again, you have failed to refute anything I've said with anything like facts. Just your assumptions, and insulting manner. The fact is, if you play the game like you discuss the game, can you even complete EE in your chosen destiny? Since you've already commented in this thread that even doing so, you wipe, I'm going to guess that the answer is no. Face it, the current system is doing you a favor by allowing you to play on Casual.

[burningwind]

So now you're saying that I'm the only one that has a static TR group. Here's the fatal flaw in your theory, it's a static group, which means, and it's sad that I need to point this out, that there are other people in it. That's what being in a group means, there are other people there. Why not ask your friends if they have a static group for content. I'm betting that most of them do, and possibly even some raid groups, or a pool of players to choose from for their group, hence the creation of guilds/channels to pull players from.

Yet again, you have failed to refute anything I've said with anything like facts. Just your assumptions, and insulting manner. The fact is, if you play the game like you discuss the game, can you even complete EE in your chosen destiny? Since you've already commented in this thread that even doing so, you wipe, I'm going to guess that the answer is no. Face it, the current system is doing you a favor by allowing you to play on Casual.

what you are saying here is "everyone who play this game must have static group, lfm is a big waste of time. new player/player without static should not, and deserve not to play this game"

ture, most of the people have static group, why? because there are so few lfm, people without static group usually quit this game before it reach epic~~ which is the issue in this game.

and this is why am here, making this suggestion. am attempting to remove the shackle, people can remain their full strength while grinding, they can tr as much as they like not worry about the ed. they could cap all their destiny without suffer the pain of being gimp. they still have to gain the same amount of experience but they can do it with joy~~ at least to some degree~~

p.s. you keep talking like destiny is nothing of importance, then perhaps you should not use destiny. since to you destiny make no major difference. either way, you still fail give reason of why you are against this idea. i don't understand why you keep repeating the same line "i don't need it, it doesn't matter to me, so none shall have it" this message is hidden in every reply you made. you fail to understand yourself, you dark nature have blind your eye~~ you assume that everyone who play the game must be just like you, you declare those who are not like you unworthy of this game~~~ which is why you are evil, because you stand against the good, and its not even for personal gain... (either way, when this game dies. you can be proud of yourself, because you have contribute to it's death. and i hope you enjoy being the evil one. don't get me wrong am not insulting you, am just admit the truth. you never give any reason of why you are against it. you never think much, all you were saying is you(and people like you) don't need this, and none shall have it. and people that are not like you doesn't deserve to play this game.)

[Ashlayna]

You can't win this argument with him. These are the people who actually think if you don't want to level off destinies with a class that benefits nothing from it, than you should TR into that class to make it easier

Or

These are the people that say playing your character with significant less character power in off destinies is fun and challenging to them so they don't want the system to change so most players would actually have fun. As if the proposed change that a lot of players like would make it so they couldn't level in off destinies and actually affect them.

Or

These are the players that see nothing wrong leveling off destinies on norm/hard and admit you shouldn't be running EE. Yeah because limiting your nerfed character is such a great idea.

As compared to "I shouldn't have to do anything but log in to get what I want? Because frankly, between all of these, and begging to not have to E TR to get the E TR feats, that's what's coming next, right? Call Obama, I'm sure he'll support you being entitled to everything you want, just as soon as you apply for "AFA".


what you are saying here is "everyone who play this game must have static group, lfm is a big waste of time. new player/player without static should not, and deserve not to play this game"

ture, most of the people have static group, why? because there are so few lfm, people without static group usually quit this game before it reach epic~~ which is the issue in this game.

and this is why am here, making this suggestion. am attempting to remove the shackle, people can remain their full strength while grinding, they can tr as much as they like not worry about the ed. they could cap all their destiny without suffer the pain of being gimp. they still have to gain the same amount of experience but they can do it with joy~~ at least to some degree~~

p.s. you keep talking like destiny is nothing of importance, then perhaps you should not use destiny. since to you destiny make no major difference. either way, you still fail give reason of why you are against this idea. i don't understand why you keep repeating the same line "i don't need it, it doesn't matter to me, so none shall have it" this message is hidden in every reply you made. you fail to understand yourself, you dark nature have blind your eye~~ you assume that everyone who play the game must be just like you, you declare those who are not like you unworthy of this game~~~ which is why you are evil, because you stand against the good, and its not even for personal gain... (either way, when this game dies. you can be proud of yourself, because you have contribute to it's death. and i hope you enjoy being the evil one. don't get me wrong am not insulting you, am just admit the truth. you never give any reason of why you are against it. you never think much, all you were saying is you(and people like you) don't need this, and none shall have it. and people that are not like you doesn't deserve to play this game.)

I'm still waiting for something you didn't pull out of your ass for a reply.

[eonfreon]

As compared to "I shouldn't have to do anything but log in to get what I want? Because frankly, between all of these, and begging to not have to E TR to get the E TR feats, that's what's coming next, right? Call Obama, I'm sure he'll support you being entitled to everything you want, just as soon as you apply for "AFA".



I'm still waiting for something you didn't pull out of your ass for a reply.

Basically, isn't it really just "log in and get what I want" for you already?

You log in and do what you want to do and advance your character. You like the method that exists, therefore it is just logging in and getting want you want.

Frankly, I would also like it to be log in and get what I want, just like it currently is for you. I would like a reason to play the game again. I want DDO to be a game I enjoy logging into and playing. That's it full function for me; entertainment. I am willing to pay for entertainment. I am not willing to pay to play a game like DDO under it's current system. I don't like how Turbine is also trying to make what I've already earned in-game become worthless going forward.

Currently, the systems in place and proposed for future content does not inspire me to play a game with no clear direction or vision. They change their own rules too often for my comfort. It looks like DDO will just be relegated to a side diversion for me. Something to do when I'm really, really, really bored.

[Ashlayna]

Basically, isn't it really just "log in and get what I want" for you already?

You log in and do what you want to do and advance your character. You like the method that exists, therefore it is just logging in and getting want you want.

Frankly, I would also like it to be log in and get what I want, just like it currently is for you. I would like a reason to play the game again. I want DDO to be a game I enjoy logging into and playing. That's it full function for me; entertainment. I am willing to pay for entertainment. I am not willing to pay to play a game like DDO under it's current system. I don't like how Turbine is also trying to make what I've already earned in-game become worthless going forward.

Currently, the systems in place and proposed for future content does not inspire me to play a game with no clear direction or vision. They change their own rules too often for my comfort. It looks like DDO will just be relegated to a side diversion for me. Something to do when I'm really, really, really bored.

No, I actually have to play the game to get where I want to be. I actually have to play all 7 lives to get the character to cap, or even to get where I can TR. That's just on my FvS, my arti has 3 druid and 3 ranger lives to wrack up. So no, I don't have any sympathy for someone that can't, or won't play the game because it doesn't cater to what they want. It's funny, to me, that people get burned out, and come here threaten to leave, or actually come here to say "I have to grind to get what I want, that's unfun, so I'm leaving". These are the people that, when playing SP games, have a cheat sheet right if front of them, with console commands(for PC) to create any item they want, and now they want this game to run the same way.

Here's my counter proposal to the OP:

Add the train button as requested, but don't unlock anything but fate points. If you want twists, you'll need to grind the destiny to get them. If it's not connected, too bad, you're going to have to go get it. There ya' go, you've got all the fate points you'll ever want. But see, there's going to be resistance to this because they aren't getting their spheres closed off and unlocking skills in destinies w/out ever playing them. The OP wants to run everything in EE so he can wipe, why bother?

If I want a sorc past life, I should, you guessed it, be required to play enough sorc in a life to get it. If I don't want to do that, I guess I don't really want it. The same applies to twists; if you really really want it, you should be required to do what it takes to get it, not just get to randomly arbitrarily pick a Destiny and get to open it up w/out ever setting foot in it. There are no cheat sheets or console commands for DDO.

[burningwind]

No, I actually have to play the game to get where I want to be. I actually have to play all 7 lives to get the character to cap, or even to get where I can TR. That's just on my FvS, my arti has 3 druid and 3 ranger lives to wrack up. So no, I don't have any sympathy for someone that can't, or won't play the game because it doesn't cater to what they want. It's funny, to me, that people get burned out, and come here threaten to leave, or actually come here to say "I have to grind to get what I want, that's unfun, so I'm leaving". These are the people that, when playing SP games, have a cheat sheet right if front of them, with console commands(for PC) to create any item they want, and now they want this game to run the same way.

Here's my counter proposal to the OP:

Add the train button as requested, but don't unlock anything but fate points. If you want twists, you'll need to grind the destiny to get them. If it's not connected, too bad, you're going to have to go get it. There ya' go, you've got all the fate points you'll ever want. But see, there's going to be resistance to this because they aren't getting their spheres closed off and unlocking skills in destinies w/out ever playing them. The OP wants to run everything in EE so he can wipe, why bother?

If I want a sorc past life, I should, you guessed it, be required to play enough sorc in a life to get it. If I don't want to do that, I guess I don't really want it. The same applies to twists; if you really really want it, you should be required to do what it takes to get it, not just get to randomly arbitrarily pick a Destiny and get to open it up w/out ever setting foot in it. There are no cheat sheets or console commands for DDO.

and how long it will take to implement this? to do this turbine will have to implement a new system, and what are the chance of turbine rework their code just for this, something they will not profit from?

in my method, the train button allow you to train in any destiny you can active~~ you still have to grind these experience, unlocking sphere, nothing less. the only different is you can do this while remain in your prime destiny. this is a simple modify of current system and can be code within half hour.

there are two type of people, the type that want everything perfect and end up with nothing, and the type of person that know what can be expect, end up with what they expected. which one would you prefer?

p.s. set foot in them? why do you want to set foot in them so badly? hard to understand~~ not like when fighter set foot in arcane circle they can make sue of int/cha or spell dc, or when wizard set foot in martial sphere they could tank and melee..

[eonfreon]

No, I actually have to play the game to get where I want to be. I actually have to play all 7 lives to get the character to cap, or even to get where I can TR. That's just on my FvS, my arti has 3 druid and 3 ranger lives to wrack up. So no, I don't have any sympathy for someone that can't, or won't play the game because it doesn't cater to what they want. It's funny, to me, that people get burned out, and come here threaten to leave, or actually come here to say "I have to grind to get what I want, that's unfun, so I'm leaving". These are the people that, when playing SP games, have a cheat sheet right if front of them, with console commands(for PC) to create any item they want, and now they want this game to run the same way.



I care for neither your sympathy nor your assumptions about what I want.

I am merely detailing why this game is barely a diversion worth doing for me.

[Qhualor]

As compared to "I shouldn't have to do anything but log in to get what I want? Because frankly, between all of these, and begging to not have to E TR to get the E TR feats, that's what's coming next, right? Call Obama, I'm sure he'll support you being entitled to everything you want, just as soon as you apply for "AFA".



I'm still waiting for something you didn't pull out of your ass for a reply.

why does it have to be the extreme for you? the proposal that many players like involves nothing like the extreme you say we want. there is no logging in and not doing anything to get everything I want. you are still running content. you are still leveling off destinies. you are still putting in the work.

this is why I stopped responding to you a long time ago. now I am telling you why because you make every argument into "I don't want to do anything but I should be entitled to everything". make a reasonable argument for why the system should stay the way it is and maybe people will actually take you a bit more seriously.

[Ashlayna]

and how long it will take to implement this? to do this turbine will have to implement a new system, and what are the chance of turbine rework their code just for this, something they will not profit from?

in my method, the train button allow you to train in any destiny you can active~~ you still have to grind these experience, unlocking sphere, nothing less. the only different is you can do this while remain in your prime destiny. this is a simple modify of current system and can be code within half hour.

there are two type of people, the type that want everything perfect and end up with nothing, and the type of person that know what can be expect, end up with what they expected. which one would you prefer?

p.s. set foot in them? why do you want to set foot in them so badly? hard to understand~~ not like when fighter set foot in arcane circle they can make sue of int/cha or spell dc, or when wizard set foot in martial sphere they could tank and melee..

No longer than it would take to implement your "idea", and probably significantly less time since they won't have to make it unlock skills on the way through.

Because I believe that if something is worth having, it's worth putting some effort into getting.

[Vint]

why does it have to be the extreme for you? the proposal that many players like involves nothing like the extreme you say we want. there is no logging in and not doing anything to get everything I want. you are still running content. you are still leveling off destinies. you are still putting in the work.

this is why I stopped responding to you a long time ago. now I am telling you why because you make every argument into "I don't want to do anything but I should be entitled to everything". make a reasonable argument for why the system should stay the way it is and maybe people will actually take you a bit more seriously.

When I started my completionist, I did not want or really gain anything from my cleric PL, but I had to do the life to get what I wanted (completionist). I knew what I had to do and I knew that it was a sacrifice to do the life but I wanted the end reward.

After reading this I see a bunch of people that want to complain because they have to "sacrifice" and earn Ed's in an "off" class.

If the reward of having a Tier 4 Ed is not worth the grind, don't do it and quit complaining that Turbine is not giving everything to people that love to complain.

[eonfreon]

When I started my completionist, I did not want or really gain anything from my cleric PL, but I had to do the life to get what I wanted (completionist). I knew what I had to do and I knew that it was a sacrifice to do the life but I wanted the end reward.

After reading this I see a bunch of people that want to complain because they have to "sacrifice" and earn Ed's in an "off" class.

If the reward of having a Tier 4 Ed is not worth the grind, don't do it and quit complaining that Turbine is not giving everything to people that love to complain.

This is a video game. The systems are nothing more than rules created by the developers. A video game needs systems that appeal to many people, in ways that keep them logging in to enjoy themselves. We are not here to learn about sacrifice. We are here to be entertained.

You are oversimplifying what people want. We complain because we see a badly devised system in place. If you don't see it as such, that is fine. But please don't try to mis-characterize things into a black vs white philosophy.

We are indeed free to "don't do it and quit complaining". That accomplishes nothing. It is a system devised by Turbine to keep us playing. It is not a minor system. It involves the advancement of your character. More and more people are deciding to not engage in it. Which is not good for Turbine.

How bad or good is all relative and Turbine has the real numbers, so they'll make the final decisions. Hardly anyone "loves" to complain. But when all it involves of my precious time is a few minutes to outline my thoughts about my misgivings and try to respond to people to give them an idea of where I'm coming from, then it's certainly not a hardship. If it's a hardship for you to read, that's your own problem, because it involves no hardship for me to write. You can complain about complainers all you like. It hardly addresses their complaints.

I've gone through the system. Both the TR and the ED systems. I don't think they are particularly good systems. I had fun despite them, not because of them.

I'll make it really simple. The system has little to do with "sacrifice". It is a system devised to keep you occupied and "doing something". TRing has nothing to do with sacrifice. It's just a way to re-play all the leveling content with little increases of power and not having to delete all your BtC gear. It involves "sacrifice" because you have to restart your character. Turbine is not trying to teach you the merits of sacrifice through their video game.

EDs don't have to have anything to do with sacrifice. Whether you could level straight forward in power and ability or you level up with the yo-yo effect of going up and down in ED power and abilities, the xp would still be the same. The amount of time would still be relatively the same. Yes, some people wouldn't bother with EE and would "overpower" EN and EH. But those people do that anyway. Also, because of the nature of ebbing and increasing in power from one ED played by a class or playstyle with synergy as opposed to another without, EH isn't between EN and EE as it should be but instead far below EE and closer to EN. Because EH is also designed around leveling off-destinies. Being "off your game" so to speak.

And the worst thing of all, in my point of view, is that if I play challenging content in a capped destiny that is appropriate for my style and character build, I earn less further progress than if I did some easy auto-complete content in a destiny that I probably haven't even bothered to allocate points to.

So I ask you; exactly what would be the big deal if ED progression involved no "sacrifice"? If the xp required is the same, then it serves it's purpose as a time sink. What good was my "sacrifice" of earning xp through Magister for my Paladin? What nuance did my character gain there? There was nothing I wanted from it. All I wanted from it was the raw xp. Is it really going to just boil down to since you had to level a Cleric life even though you didn't enjoy it, that others should also have to do things that they don't enjoy. Where does this philosophy come from?

[Qhualor]

When I started my completionist, I did not want or really gain anything from my cleric PL, but I had to do the life to get what I wanted (completionist). I knew what I had to do and I knew that it was a sacrifice to do the life but I wanted the end reward.

After reading this I see a bunch of people that want to complain because they have to "sacrifice" and earn Ed's in an "off" class.

If the reward of having a Tier 4 Ed is not worth the grind, don't do it and quit complaining that Turbine is not giving everything to people that love to complain.

I don't have a problem doing the grind for tier 4 twist as long as its in that destiny I want the twist from. I do have a problem with the grind leveling through Arcane and Divine spheres on my barbarian to earn enough fate points so I can get that tier 4 twist from Legendary.

[patang01]

there should be another button beside "Active button" named "training", which allow player to gain exp toward an inactive destiny, we have several destiny and most of them does not benefit player at all. but we still have to max them all for fate point. please turbine, make it fair and nice for everyone. allow us to gain experience toward an inactive ed, so everyone can battle at their full strength!!

just three simple rule:
when active is clicked, so are the training button.
training button will only be visible after an destiny have been active.
training button can be use at any time without visiting a fate npc

I don't mind unlocking features I want to twist. I feel that's perfectly acceptable. But the idea of cross leveling through multiple destines to get to it. Stupid.
Second of all, break away fate points from destinies. They should have their own leveling track. Just assume so many million XP to unlock them all.

The worst part. Turbine is about to make this a feature of Epic reincarnation. That you HAVE to earn karma point in the sphere you want to ER in. So a lot of classes have to run destinies in those spheres, either to unlock the fate points tied to the process (1 fate point every 4 ER) and if they want the Epic past life feat.

It's one thing to heroic reincarnate. You will always run the enhancement system that energizes with the class. Always. In off destiny leveling and now ERing you will gimp your class forcing you do continue running the same ungodly amount of ENs and EHs over and over to level.

I'm so sick and tired of it.

Ontop of that they're releasing 2 new Otto's boxed that will allow you to freely level as you want in heroic and epic, giving you enough XP to cap a whole destiny or in heroic your first and second life (more or less) level 1 thru 20. Basically - you don't have to run anything.

You buy the item you want from shard AH and heroic or epic TR by buying the box.

Why grind? Why suffer the system that breaks your heart when you can simply just buy yourself to whatever you want?

I don't know why Turbine keep ignoring our simple suggestions to keep 'grind' but make it more fun to run and insist of making us sweat blood in a unfun hamster wheel then remove all sense of accomplishments by letting us buy ourselves to victory.

[harry-pancreas]

good point, but please demonstrate how your melee class leveling arcane/divine destiny without being able to cast a single spell in your entire life.

or explain how your caster level up in primal/martial without ever lifting a blade/bow..

well you start at level 0 whenever you choose a new destiny, only with a 1 innate ability. You're favored by gods (cuz you're hot deal, epic. Level 20, when it comes to D&D matters, is hot shi.t, but still you're not a god) with a tiny reward and then you start training. Good enough ?

[Vint]

This is a video game. The systems are nothing more than rules created by the developers. A video game needs systems that appeal to many people, in ways that keep them logging in to enjoy themselves. We are not here to learn about sacrifice. We are here to be entertained.

This is the main point. It is just a game.

Believe me; I am passionate about this game too. I do care or else I would have stopped playing by now. But look at this logically. Is Cordovan going to be able to buy Christmas for the family if Turbine is just giving away TR hearts? If revenue dries up because people are farming these hearts as often as some want, the store will suffer and the game will end. We all know people that duped the sh*t out of store items within the past few weeks, and these numbers will greatly hurt Turbine.

It goes to the same subject as a while back. When raid timers and other things were added to the store, we were told that they are not necessary and you do NOT have to buy them as they are not essential to game play. Same thing in this situation. They are not changing the current heroic tr system. Anything they add in the update is not essential.

P.S. The other great thing about this is seeing all the people that were calling Chai an idiot are now realizing what is really going on. I aint kissing his arse, but he called it awhile back and just now people are starting to realize that this game has gone from slight P2W to straight punch you in the face P2W. Maybe I saw it coming so I am not as concerned as people that just come to the realization.

[patang01]

U20 will make this much worse.

Imagine off destiny leveling for karma in a very non synergistic sphere/destiny so you can get a epic feat there. I don't know how much karma will be needed to Reincarnate but lets assume all levels from 20-28 (iconic is worse since it's from 15-28).

So in other words, as you're forced to play sagas for valor (if you don't feel like giving Turbine money and you shouldn't) you have to do so in a off destiny for karma points while ignoring the xp bonus in the end of the saga since you now need to pick up valor instead.

Turbine have not learned anything from the terrible off destiny system. They created a boring hamster wheel x 5.

But hey - at least with the new Otto's box you can poke the people who think this is the true way of 'earning' a destiny by simply pay to level an entire destiny by plopping down 5k points.

Here's the basic truth

Turbine didn't create this system to satisfy anyone's idea of 'earning'. They created this awful system (ignoring better options) to cash out. Now they could 'fix' the design and allow for more fun leveling both karma and destinies and make some money on the side, or they can p!ss off most of us and make less.

I might not be a finance genius but I plop down enough money on games to know what I like, what kind of behavior I reward and stuff I punish by simply not spending anything at all.

[Vint]

Here's the basic truth

Turbine didn't create this system to satisfy anyone's idea of 'earning'. They created this awful system (ignoring better options) to cash out. Now they could 'fix' the design and allow for more fun leveling both karma and destinies and make some money on the side, or they can p!ss off most of us and make less.

I might not be a finance genius but I plop down enough money on games to know what I like, what kind of behavior I reward and stuff I punish by simply not spending anything at all.

THIS

People are just now realizing that this is how Turbine has been running things for a good while now.

[eonfreon]

This is the main point. It is just a game.

Believe me; I am passionate about this game too. I do care or else I would have stopped playing by now. But look at this logically. Is Cordovan going to be able to buy Christmas for the family if Turbine is just giving away TR hearts? If revenue dries up because people are farming these hearts as often as some want, the store will suffer and the game will end. We all know people that duped the sh*t out of store items within the past few weeks, and these numbers will greatly hurt Turbine.

It goes to the same subject as a while back. When raid timers and other things were added to the store, we were told that they are not necessary and you do NOT have to buy them as they are not essential to game play. Same thing in this situation. They are not changing the current heroic tr system. Anything they add in the update is not essential.

P.S. The other great thing about this is seeing all the people that were calling Chai an idiot are now realizing what is really going on. I aint kissing his arse, but he called it awhile back and just now people are starting to realize that this game has gone from slight P2W to straight punch you in the face P2W. Maybe I saw it coming so I am not as concerned as people that just come to the realization.

Logically? I have no idea if Cordovan relies on "TR heart revenue" for his Christmas bonus. Don't really know why you bring it up. I mean I agree that the TR hearts things is as dumb as the ED system. But do you really believe that DDO needs HoW sales to survive? And how does that affect the ED system that we were talking about?

I think you may confusing threads, but I'll try to follow along because they are not all that different in effect.

Because they certainly are changing the current heroic tr system. At least that's what they are working towards accomplishing; it doesn't change much more fundamentally than what you have to do in game to earn it. That's a big thing.

I know duping was a problem. But I don't think it matters to enough players. The Tokens are BtA. That means that a player may not ever have to worry about needing to buy Hearts of Wood, but the playerbase itself doesn't change much. I did no duping. Every single Token I got through gameplay.

So currently, Turbine is trying to add another layer to TRing to make it an additional irritant that they provide a means to pay to bypass. Which is how I imagine they built the current ED system to be.

It seems Turbine has been testing the waters and have decided that creating systems that are incredibly irritating as a means to progress at their game is a winning combination of some kind. The ED Reincarnation system seems like it'll be as badly designed as the first Incarnation was.

So instead of playing characters that are "fulfilling their destiny" or whatever the lore is, instead I'm playing characters that are "learning about other destinies" with non-synergestic abilities, so that the character can earn some new ability. I'm not too keen on this concept. If this is the Epic Reincarnation, I'd just as soon TR finally and ignore Turbine's attempt at an Epic endgame. Which is probably what they are afraid of. Why else require time to be spent in Epic content for players who just want to skip it and TR at level 20?

[eonfreon]

well you start at level 0 whenever you choose a new destiny, only with a 1 innate ability. You're favored by gods (cuz you're hot deal, epic. Level 20, when it comes to D&D matters, is hot shi.t, but still you're not a god) with a tiny reward and then you start training. Good enough ?

And in the process, I forgot everything I already knew? What kind of weak gods am I favored by? Epic Destinies are supposed to be about discovering and fulfilling your destiny, not dabbling at spell casting on a Fighter who just previously defeated some powerful generals in open combat.

The system is bad from my point of view because of the whole "yo-yo" effect of access to powers and abilities. And to play at your best destiny pretty much just means you're done.

[patang01]

And in the process, I forgot everything I already knew? What kind of weak gods am I favored by? Epic Destinies are supposed to be about discovering and fulfilling your destiny, not dabbling at spell casting on a Fighter who just previously defeated some powerful generals in open combat.

The system is bad from my point of view because of the whole "yo-yo" effect of access to powers and abilities. And to play at your best destiny pretty much just means you're done.

As an all powerful God I suddenly decide I want to play harp for no fricken gain whatso ever on my Savant. But hey - in order to get a few more SP I have to level enough destiny through rogue stuff, Monk stuff and Paladin stuff afterwards. All for nothing. God I am!!!

[Gauthaag]

I don't have a problem doing the grind for tier 4 twist as long as its in that destiny I want the twist from. I do have a problem with the grind leveling through Arcane and Divine spheres on my barbarian to earn enough fate points so I can get that tier 4 twist from Legendary.

actually i see this one as maybe first reasonable. idea of earning fate points separately of learning EDs sound better than just I want may EDs maxed while doing my swing swing bard in my main ED:)

of course with need to have to earn each particular ability for twist in active destiny.

It would make people spend as short time as possible in their hated destinies just to reach abilities they really want with option to reach full twist capacity.

Im still not fan of changing ED system, but that option seems for me like acceptable

[Vint]

It seems Turbine has been testing the waters and have decided that creating systems that are incredibly irritating as a means to progress at their game is a winning combination of some kind. The ED Reincarnation system seems like it'll be as badly designed as the first Incarnation was.

This is the ultimate point; “Testing waters”. They have been doing it for a while and just now people are calling them on it. I rambled abit in my last post, but why are people now complaining? Did they just realize that Turbine was putting in irritants or is this just the last straw?

Maybe the duping, low population, people quitting are meaning Turbine needs the money more or if they are doing well and just trying to squeeze a little more.

[eonfreon]

This is the ultimate point; “Testing waters”. They have been doing it for a while and just now people are calling them on it. I rambled abit in my last post, but why are people now complaining? Did they just realize that Turbine was putting in irritants or is this just the last straw?

Maybe the duping, low population, people quitting are meaning Turbine needs the money more or if they are doing well and just trying to squeeze a little more.

Everyone has there own reasons for complaining; most decisions are not made in a vacuum. I complain because I can see better ways to accomplish nearly the same ends. But I have no real financial data. But that's not the point is it? That is their point, not mine. Ultimately everything is about money in the entertainment business. Just because they want me to spend money on the easiest things for them to provide me, doesn't mean I or others accept that. They are welcome to my spending dollars so long as they build something I want to engage in.

And once again we are not really talking about just EDs here are we? But rather the whole philosophy about gameplay of which EDs are just one part.

Irritants is just one way of talking about the prospects. Whether you feel Chai was right by constantly saying the same thing and only changing his arguments by degrees to make the facts finally fit, doesn't change the fact that many people have said that there is indeed a point when Turbine can go too far. How much do they really think they can rent tired old ideas out to their population has always been the real question.

The entire point of giving feedback is to point out what we consider an enjoyable use of our time and what we don't. Turbine makes the final decisions, but it's not in a vacuum. They need happy customers. Just as we need something to do with our time and money.

[Qhualor]

actually i see this one as maybe first reasonable. idea of earning fate points separately of learning EDs sound better than just I want may EDs maxed while doing my swing swing bard in my main ED:)

of course with need to have to earn each particular ability for twist in active destiny.

It would make people spend as short time as possible in their hated destinies just to reach abilities they really want with option to reach full twist capacity.

Im still not fan of changing ED system, but that option seems for me like acceptable

that's what i have been saying all along. :) i finally got through to one of these people.

[harry-pancreas]

And in the process, I forgot everything I already knew? What kind of weak gods am I favored by? Epic Destinies are supposed to be about discovering and fulfilling your destiny, not dabbling at spell casting on a Fighter who just previously defeated some powerful generals in open combat.

The system is bad from my point of view because of the whole "yo-yo" effect of access to powers and abilities. And to play at your best destiny pretty much just means you're done.

oh, the system sucks. I just don't understand how one would pretend to level up, let's say, LD, using Shiradi or whatever destiny one wants to use. As pointed a few pages ago, people is whining about having to use a destiny to get it leveled up...well, that sounds logical for me.

Think what you asking could be answered by twists...also don't forget you go to the "fateSPINNER" for changing destinies...the word spin is important...let's sat the gods let you return to any way you have taken before or start a new one...and sometimes you "remember" some stuff (twists). After all, we're still mortals and they would never give us their power, gods don't like to divide the worshipers...

Grinding twists and destinies suck, and the system too, we agree about that. Just pointing the fact that seems logical to play in X destiny if you wanna be lvl 5 of X. Opposite would be playing "Y" destiny to level up "X" destiny, makes no sense.

[eonfreon]

oh, the system sucks. I just don't understand how one would pretend to level up, let's say, LD, using Shiradi or whatever destiny one wants to use. As pointed a few pages ago, people is whining about having to use a destiny to get it leveled up...well, that sounds logical for me.

Think what you asking could be answered by twists...also don't forget you go to the "fateSPINNER" for changing destinies...the word spin is important...let's sat the gods let you return to any way you have taken before or start a new one...and sometimes you "remember" some stuff (twists). After all, we're still mortals and they would never give us their power, gods don't like to divide the worshipers...

Grinding twists and destinies suck, and the system too, we agree about that. Just pointing the fact that seems logical to play in X destiny if you wanna be lvl 5 of X. Opposite would be playing "Y" destiny to level up "X" destiny, makes no sense.

Well, the OP is asking for more than most anyone is asking for, but even in the OP he says how the majority of the reason why it "sucks" is because you're leveling through destinies not to even get anything from the destiny except for fate points. Those fate points are likely to never even be used for anything in a destiny that you didn't want to level through in the first place.

Leveling through a Destiny to gain an ability in that destiny makes more sense to me than leveling a destiny to be able to twist in an ability from a completely different destiny.

As annoying as having to pass through destinies is, it's far more annoying to have to come back and finish off weak destinies to simply gain fate points.

And they are "fate points" not "Draconic points" or "Shiradi points" or whatever.

Very few people are opposed to the idea of having to play in X destiny to be lvl 5 or whatever in that destiny. Most people just really don't like the fact that to continue to progress their character's fate points they have to play X destiny even though they want nothing from X destiny.

If I could have played my Paladin like I want to I would have maxed out US, LD, and FoTW to level 5. I would have trudged through GMoF, Shadowdancer, Fatesinger, and Shiradi to level 3 or 4 just to get into specific trees and I would have leveled some of the rest to level 1 for a couple of situational twists.

That means I leveled 14+ levels for no reason other than the access to fate points.

[harry-pancreas]

Well, the OP is asking for more than most anyone is asking for, but even in the OP he says how the majority of the reason why it "sucks" is because you're leveling through destinies not to even get anything from the destiny except for fate points. Those fate points are likely to never even be used for anything in a destiny that you didn't want to level through in the first place.

Leveling through a Destiny to gain an ability in that destiny makes more sense to me than leveling a destiny to be able to twist in an ability from a completely different destiny.

As annoying as having to pass through destinies is, it's far more annoying to have to come back and finish off weak destinies to simply gain fate points.

And they are "fate points" not "Draconic points" or "Shiradi points" or whatever.

Very few people are opposed to the idea of having to play in X destiny to be lvl 5 or whatever in that destiny. Most people just really don't like the fact that to continue to progress their character's fate points they have to play X destiny even though they want nothing from X destiny.

If I could have played my Paladin like I want to I would have maxed out US, LD, and FoTW to level 5. I would have trudged through GMoF, Shadowdancer, Fatesinger, and Shiradi to level 3 or 4 just to get into specific trees and I would have leveled some of the rest to level 1 for a couple of situational twists.

That means I leveled 14+ levels for no reason other than the access to fate points.


Well now that i can understand your point at 100%, you're totally right. I had to level up LD and ended up with a Fury of the wild ability for the twist. That makes no sense, in every way. Guess it would be nice to get fate points per destiny or sphere and be able to use them to twist a particular ability of the proper destiny/sphere, or, just put the "fate points xp" separated from the rest, as i think lot of people said.

Yeah also, i hate the "bridge" destinies. Why i have to be shiradi level 4 to get LD, isnt it the same if i get fury of the wild, or primal ? Even FotW makes more sense...


P.S: As you see, i wasnt understanding the whole topic. Now i do, you're right people, with more or less different opinions, totally right.

[patang01]

Well now that i can understand your point at 100%, you're totally right. I had to level up LD and ended up with a Fury of the wild ability for the twist. That makes no sense, in every way. Guess it would be nice to get fate points per destiny or sphere and be able to use them to twist a particular ability of the proper destiny/sphere, or, just put the "fate points xp" separated from the rest, as i think lot of people said.

Yeah also, i hate the "bridge" destinies. Why i have to be shiradi level 4 to get LD, isnt it the same if i get fury of the wild, or primal ? Even FotW makes more sense...


P.S: As you see, i wasnt understanding the whole topic. Now i do, you're right people, with more or less different opinions, totally right.

Turbine anchored fate points to a poorly designed idea of unlocking destinies, many of which adds nothing, barely something incremental for the cool idea of twisting some of those abilities.

Had Turbine left it open to anyone to only level the abilities they want while unlocking fate points on it's own separate track, they'd make a system that is more useful then the current. What burns people out is the fact that you have to cross the entire map for the destiny you want as suppose to add a mechanism where you can move to whatever destiny you want. The whole destiny travelling only makes sense if you want to add a monetary way of getting where you want quicker. At the same time - why is arcane not attached to primal and divine? Why do you as a divine have to take a long way to primal and why to arcanes have to take a long way to divine?

And then add to that the silly system of doing this for Karma. Sure - you could heroic reincarnate to a class that can get something out of the sphere you're ERing in but that means more gear, more time spent doing things you didn't want to do to begin with. And this only gets worse if you want to unlock all additional fate points - now married to every 4 ER.

Ultimately the end goal has to be to make a game fun for people. Rewarding for spending time playing it. Because as far as I can see it the only thing that matters is that there's enough time sink in the game so people spend more time playing - not that it's so painful people will simply quit.

[dragonofsteel2]

so you could max a destiny without using it even once ? That's ridiculous, try to become a good a good mechanic without fixing a car in your entire life o.0

Have you seen the new otto's boxes p, that option will be there if they change or keep this system. It call use cash and bypass all grind :). Also I like to see you try to cast a meter storm from your hands :). I love RL qoute's in a fantasy game. The main goal is to keep players having fun, and the more the game seems like a grind the more players will look for new games that meet there goal of having fun. It a business and would increase there xp pot sales to casual players that will not do the grind, because of the lack of fun and time. Though these players might have just kept xp pot going if they had options to gain the xp while in there fun destiny. I hear all these arguments saying you should have to go through the grind because it fits real life logic. This is not real life in a lot ways it a escape from real life. Second it does not fit real life logic, because the real life grind would get a tutor and train at the gym over and over again. Then once good enough to start competitions you start to enter them. Who in there right mind would go in using there weak skills having the chance of death, not me. Oh wait this a video game you can just rez. Oh wait you can purchase that rez in quest from the ddo store, because that is just so logical. So in turn I have no clue why logic matters when it's holding there profits down be excluding people do not like the boring grind. Yes hitting buttons on the screen is like training and studying to become a mechanic. Though that just how I see the logic in the game.

[harry-pancreas]

Have you seen the new otto's boxes p, that option will be there if they change or keep this system. It call use cash and bypass all grind :). Also I like to see you try to cast a meter storm from your hands :). I love RL qoute's in a fantasy game. The main goal is to keep players having fun, and the more the game seems like a grind the more players will look for new games that meet there goal of having fun. It a business and would increase there xp pot sales to casual players that will not do the grind, because of the lack of fun and time. Though these players might have just kept xp pot going if they had options to gain the xp while in there fun destiny. I hear all these arguments saying you should have to go through the grind because it fits real life logic. This is not real life in a lot ways it a escape from real life. Second it does not fit real life logic, because the real life grind would get a tutor and train at the gym over and over again. Then once good enough to start competitions you start to enter them. Who in there right mind would go in using there weak skills having the chance of death, not me. Oh wait this a video game you can just rez. Oh wait you can purchase that rez in quest from the ddo store, because that is just so logical. So in turn I have no clue why logic matters when it's holding there profits down be excluding people do not like the boring grind. Yes hitting buttons on the screen is like training and studying to become a mechanic. Though that just how I see the logic in the game.

Well, first, if people use the pay to win method, it's their bussiness. If you wanna pay to level up why play anyways ?
Second, people SEEM to have fun only by grinding, save a few. I didn't grind much and i got 12 ED levels, it's pretty much easy, but people still do it cuz they want to max everything RIGHT NOW, and my question is...what's the rush guys ? What's the goal ? Is there any ?
·3rd, the grind or the current system doesnt match RL either.

About RL stuff, yeah, i know, there are shrines and everything. But the game still clamins to be D&D, and i bet the ones who played lot of pnp, or at least myself, would love to see this actually being D&D, as much as it's possible. And that means a fantastic world, but matching lot of stuff of RL. Like you character practicing something and after practice becoming good at it. WIth some heroic-fantasy components that make sense in the game's wolrd. D&D at level 1 used to be almost like puting you (or me, or anyone) with a sword in the hand and a month of practice in a fantastic world. That's the D&D spirit. Grab your AD&D level 3 fighter and ask your DM if you can fly, think he will say no. Because you can't, unless you have the fly spell. The fly spell is the "RL braker", but it even has an in-game explanation (full chapter about magic, full chapter about spells in the book, and more).

So yep, this is a video game, and of course it has it limitations. But it's still D&D, and most of the RL limitations should be applied.

And if you didnt notice yet, i hate the grind. I don't do the quests as fast a human can, and i usually skip the painful gear farming, so, i agree the system sucks, but it's possible to do something that's ok and actually makes sense, i believe.
The difference between the otto's box, the grind, the cakes, the shrines and everything it's that i can choose to not use it , i choose to not p2w and i choose to not grind to win. *** is winning here anyways.

I whine cuz people want everything easier and easier, and this game is easy enough. And D&D used to be hard as hell.

How would devs care about the feedback, if everyone is trying to exploit everything they can in the game and you can find people who did, for example, "Weapon shipments" 100 times, but they never noticed they're protecting the same girl who's in Amrath and takes you back to the twelve cuz they never read the dialogue and they were too busy trying to do the quest in 2 minutes, so they couldnt take the time to check on the name of the person they're protecting ? Did they notice they have to protect someone, actually ?

What seems boring to me it's to do easy stuff, have a reward for nothing. That's why RL limitations matter. Life would be pretty boring if i can just download a book to my brain a learn whatever i want in 15 minutes. Well, playing in a capped destiny and suddenly finding i got 2 fate points that i can use to twist an ability from any destiny seems pretty boring to me, if you still care about what was the real point. Though, as said before, i didnt understand well the topic at first and the OP is probably right.

[Pentaur-Silvermane]

so you could max a destiny without using it even once ? That's ridiculous, try to become a good mechanic without fixing a car in your entire life o.0
.

To continue this anaology:

You become a mechanic (exalted angel) to fix cars since that's what you like to do. Then you realize in order to be a GOOD mechanic you need tools (twists). In order to pay for those tools you need to be a doctor(unyielding sentinal) first and make some cash (fate points). hmmm...being a doctor didn't pay as much as I thought....I still can't afford those tools. So I'll become a teacher(grand master of flowers). Hmmm...teaching didn't pay as much as I hoped it would...So I'll be a lawyer(shadow dancer)...Hmmm being a lawyer didn't get me what I needed to be a good mechanic...So I'll be a construction worker(fatesinger)...Ahhh now that I've been a mechanic, doctor, teacher, lawyer and construction worker I can get the tools I need to be a good mechanic.

Absolutly silly...yet this is what the current system askes us to do.

[harry-pancreas]

To continue this anaology:

You become a mechanic (exalted angel) to fix cars since that's what you like to do. Then you realize in order to be a GOOD mechanic you need tools (twists). In order to pay for those tools you need to be a doctor(unyielding sentinal) first and make some cash (fate points). hmmm...being a doctor didn't pay as much as I thought....I still can't afford those tools. So I'll become a teacher(grand master of flowers). Hmmm...teaching didn't pay as much as I hoped it would...So I'll be a lawyer(shadow dancer)...Hmmm being a lawyer didn't get me what I needed to be a good mechanic...So I'll be a construction worker(fatesinger)...Ahhh now that I've been a mechanic, doctor, teacher, lawyer and construction worker I can get the tools I need to be a good mechanic.

Absolutly silly...yet this is what the current system askes us to do.



oh wow is the RL analogy that weird ? LOL i'll be famous :P

As i said, the system sucks. I'm not defending the system, it needs a change, but the change (just IMO, no offense for anybody) shouldnt be "let me (player) play in maxed sentinel, save enough xp to level up 3 levels in any destiny (or whatever level), and then put all that xp and instantly get level 3 of exalted". That innocent tiny detail is the whole thing.

And BTW, the example you put there is not really right IMO. The mechanic (sentinel) tools, are the sentinel abilities. If you need twist, it's because you need/want some stuff from other destiny (profession). IMO it would be more like "i like to be a mechanic (Sentinel) but is not paying enough. I'll be a mechanic most of the time, but i'm gonna learn electronics so i can fix comps (exalted) and make some extra money in my free time. Ohey, there is some electronic stuff in the car, now i'm better (twist)."

A better example: I'm a wonderful guitar player (sentinel) but i'm terrible with tempo, i always start playing later than i should. I'm gonna learn how to play the bass guitar (exalted) so i become better with tempo (twist). Now, i'm even better with the guitar. And i'll take some sing lessons (grandmaster of flowers) so i'll hear the tune better when i get back into play my guitar".

Even if the current system reflects RL, and RL limitations are usually good, it still sucks and needs fix for sure. I'm sure it can make sense AND be done in a way that's still fun for a comp game.


Keeping the analogy, leveling up a destiny while you play another would be "i like to be a mechanic, but i make little money. Let me work as a mechanic (sentinel), pay me as a lawyer (xp for exalted). And download 50 books directly to my brain so i can skip studying but still learn what a lawyer learns in his career (you would be able to actually play exalted starting at any level, even play it for the first time when it's already capped)"

The last part is what makes no sense to me, and that's what i thought the OP was asking for. I'm not even sure anymore if i read it right, and i'm too lazy to go back to the 1st page (since this debate is more interesting)

[Pentaur-Silvermane]

And BTW, the example you put there is not really right IMO. The mechanic (sentinel) tools, are the sentinel abilities. If you need twist, it's because you need/want some stuff from other destiny (profession). IMO it would be more like "i like to be a mechanic (Sentinel) but is not paying enough. I'll be a mechanic most of the time, but i'm gonna learn electronics so i can fix comps (exalted) and make some extra money in my free time. Ohey, there is some electronic stuff in the car, now i'm better (twist)."

I would just like to comment about this portion of your statement. You would be correct except for one thing. ED's don't always give you all the tools needed to be better at your class. There's very very little for a caster in Fury or LD and the same is true for melee; not much in EA and magister for them. Yes there is something in each but most of it isn't worth the grind to accuire espically since most people are after the fate points. That's where the whole ananolgy breaks down; our charecters are more than 8 epic levels. We are more then a mechanic or a computer repairman or a teacher or a (insert whatever RL job you want).

The solution is really simple as well (as an idea; i don't now about the coding aspect of it).

1) Unhook fate points from ED levels and try them completly to Karama. However many exp for a fate point.

2) Extend the divine sphere to reach the arcane and the arcane to reach the primal. This lets people access relivant destinies without a huge mindnumbingly boring grind while still earning it.

Doing this allows people to earn fate points by playing whatever destiney they wish to and earning fate points while at the same time earning the ability you want to twist without a soulcrushing grind.

Sadly much of this was said when ED's came out. Nothing has gotten better in a year. Maybe things will change in the next year or the year after that.

[harry-pancreas]

I would just like to comment about this portion of your statement. You would be correct except for one thing. ED's don't always give you all the tools needed to be better at your class. There's very very little for a caster in Fury or LD and the same is true for melee; not much in EA and magister for them. Yes there is something in each but most of it isn't worth the grind to accuire espically since most people are after the fate points. That's where the whole ananolgy breaks down; our charecters are more than 8 epic levels. We are more then a mechanic or a computer repairman or a teacher or a (insert whatever RL job you want).

The solution is really simple as well (as an idea; i don't now about the coding aspect of it).

1) Unhook fate points from ED levels and try them completly to Karama. However many exp for a fate point.

2) Extend the divine sphere to reach the arcane and the arcane to reach the primal. This lets people access relivant destinies without a huge mindnumbingly boring grind while still earning it.

Doing this allows people to earn fate points by playing whatever destiney they wish to and earning fate points while at the same time earning the ability you want to twist without a soulcrushing grind.

Sadly much of this was said when ED's came out. Nothing has gotten better in a year. Maybe things will change in the next year or the year after that.




Well, i agree this is a comp game and our characters are a lot more than 8 epic levels, that's true. That's why this RL stuff i was talking about was bound just to a little portion of the whole problem with the current ED system (no xp with no use and people wanting that to change). Though, i'd say with the example of the mechanic who learn how to fix comps and that's useful for his job, i can guarantee there is a lotof things he should learn and there are not actually useful for car fixing. But they are useful to learn another stuff that might be useful for a mechanic.

Anyways, i think RL limitations should be applied, but just basics. Like, you won't learn something you didn't practice. And after that, well, it's a comp game, in a fantastic epic world that's FULL of magic. So no, i won't complain if they change everything to we can get the fly spell cuz i cannot fly in RL. Not at all.

About your ideas i really really agree with the point 2). Makes no sense melee being the big link. Keeping the example, it's like if the mechanic should learn how to teach (useless for his job) before he learns how to fix comps, useful for his job (a tiny part).


Plus arcanes and divines are more related than arcanes and melees, for example.

And the point 1) is, i guess, what most people would like. Can't say i have an opinion. Either way makes sense to me. Fate points are another thing, but they're nothing without the ED's. So related xp or not, both seem logical for me.

I'd like it separated as you do though, just cuz this is a game and it's more fun that way :P


It is fun and good to discuss with no drama, with no people thinking you're attacking them just cuz you think different. Yay for you, yay for me :)