Cleric Love

[karatemack]

Turning is an investment. You need to farm out specific gear (TOD radiant servant ring and one of four items with eternal faith [being the sacred helm, Lorikk's champion, gauntlets of eternity or the token of the faithful]), you have to invest in CHA, you will spend enhancement points on turning (most clerics will anyway since they're leveling up the Radiant Servant tree) and you should have cleric past lives.

Ok, so I've farmed the gear, I have my past lives, my stats look right so now I can go and kill ALL the undead things... right? WRONG. For some reason non-red-named mobs in certain quests in DDO are warded against turning. Why???

It isn't easy maintaining great healing ability, NECRO DCs of 54+, high damage from light spells and turning but when we DO make the investment to balance all of those things out why do you take away the so-called easy button? Sure it's easy to just hit a button and watch all the undead things dissipate in front of me but it wasn't an easy journey to gain high enough turning dice to expect it to land in EH/EE while maintaining everything else.

Can clerics please get some love (while some undead lose their mysterious immunities from the power of the turning)?

[Eistander]

Well thought out and poignant, but you'll make the arcanes cry again.

[SirValentine]

Yes, the blanket immunity is silly. For lore & balance reasons, they can give certain types of undead Turn Resistance (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_turnresistance&alpha=), but not flat-out immunity.

[burningwind]

cleric don't need improvement on turning, all they need is their domain.

domain will do various of things, granting both feat and spell. some even improve your turning or healing ability. it is the reason of why cleric is the best splash class in dnd.. which is not anywhere near truth for ddo..

[zDragonz]

Clerics need Domain!

This is priority imo.

This is the key to making this game mesh so well.

This will make the game better for all.

It is long overdue!
.

[PermaBanned]

...one of four items with eternal faith [being the sacred helm, Lorikk's champion, gauntlets of eternity or the token of the faithful]),

This has been annoying me (as big fan of Clerics) for years. No Epic Turning gear. Sure, I realize I may be in a niche, but I mean come on man...

There's this level 7 item (Sacred Helm) with the nifty property of Eternal Faith. That helm even has an Epic version, care to guess what turning property it has? Yup, the same level 7 effect of Eternal Faith. So time goes by... and the Reavers raid gear gets an upgrade system. Surely the upgraded Gauntlets will have a new turning effect, right? Nope, still the same attainable at level 7 Eternal Faith. So even more time goes by with no new turning goodies, then whoa! Epic Gianthold! With a whole new raid, and new top level versions of the old Reavers loot! Surely there's finally going to be some Turning love. I do some searching, find the Gauntlets of Immortality, check the properties and... wait for it... Eternal Faith! Are you freaking kidding me? Minimum level 25 loot from the highest level raid in the game sporting the same ol' min level 7 Turning property...

So what gives? Turn Undead is possibly the most iconic power a Cleric has, and nothing. So come on devs, show Turn Undead some love, and give it an Epic boost beyond what's attainable at 7th level.

[axel15810]

this thread makes me feel better about ignoring turning on my cleric even though he has 2 cleric past lives and high CHA.

[Grace_ana]

Currently domains and epic turning gear would be useless. The reason is exactly what kmack said - undead are warded against turning. It doesn't matter how high anyone's turn DC can get, because the game is programmed to not allow it in many epic quests. This is utterly ridiculous.

Now, if Turbine removes the blanket immunities AND gives us domains and epic turning gear, that would make a lot of clerics very happy.

[nibel]

Ok, so I've farmed the gear, I have my past lives, my stats look right so now I can go and kill ALL the undead things... right? WRONG. For some reason non-red-named mobs in certain quests in DDO are warded against turning.

You want to know the funniest part? They are not warded against the "fear" effect from Turn. Only the instant destruction. If you do not train Might Turning, you can still paralyze them in place.

(Assuming you are talking about Tor giant skeletons)

[karatemack]

You want to know the funniest part? They are not warded against the "fear" effect from Turn. Only the instant destruction. If you do not train Might Turning, you can still paralyze them in place.
(Assuming you are talking about Tor giant skeletons)

TOR skellies are one set, there are also the skellies in Madstone (EH/EE) and a few other quests which have this problem.

For those not familiar: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm (Cleric Domains)

Domains would be nice but I really want to see some changes with turning. Remove the warding, add the resistance and put additional gear in game to help us be more effective (IE: more turns/rest, faster turn regen, more HD, etc…). WHY ARE THERE UNTURNABLE UNDEAD THINGS WHICH ARE NOT RED-NAMED IN GAME?!?!?

[Tyrande]

TOR skellies are one set, there are also the skellies in Madstone (EH/EE) and a few other quests which have this problem.

For those not familiar: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm (Cleric Domains)

Domains would be nice but I really want to see some changes with turning. Remove the warding, add the resistance and put additional gear in game to help us be more effective (IE: more turns/rest, faster turn regen, more HD, etc…). WHY ARE THERE UNTURNABLE UNDEAD THINGS WHICH ARE NOT RED-NAMED IN GAME?!?!?

Curious though... if Turbine implemented domains but charged 595TP for it (same price as destinies) and charged 200 TP for epic turning (Sun Domain?), would people still buy domains and splash clerics?

I for one would buy it.

You know, if its free, it may never get implemented...

[silinteresting]

at the present moment of time im trying to make the best caster
cleric i can, so far im on life 4 of 15. 2 bard(already done before deciding to do this)
3 cleric 3 wizard, 3 favoured soul and 3 sorcerer lifes then tr into the final cleric life.
i was kinda hoping my turning would be uber along with my spells after this many lives,
am i wrong in this assumption?

after this many past lives and getting all the gear needed i should be a god in the land
of the dead, im begining to wonder now why im bothering.

maybe tho as its gonna take me about a year to do this so in that time perhaps things
will change. with level 30 coming and i hear rumours of maybe a raid(dont quote me
on that as cant remember where i read it) i live in hope.

your friend sil :)

[karatemack]

after this many past lives and getting all the gear needed i should be a god in the land
of the dead, im begining to wonder now why im bothering.


You can start at level 1 in catacombs/deleras. By the time you hit necro you will still be on a high similar to early level monk-invincibility. Then you hit GH and things will start to change. Head over to Eveningstar and you will begin to notice a trend. Run enough Epics and you will start to wonder if you just imagined those past lives of cleric.

and Tyrande:

We shouldn't have to pay to get undead mobs to have turn resistance instead of turn immunity. Let's start there. Then we can about gear for clerics. Then let's talk domains.

[Tyrande]

[...]

and Tyrande:

We shouldn't have to pay to get undead mobs to have turn resistance instead of turn immunity. Let's start there. Then we can about gear for clerics. Then let's talk domains.

Same thing is happening with arcane casters. Monsters basically have death spell immunity due to high fort saves speaking of Storm Horn Mountains on EE. Coincidence?!

May be there should be mechanisms for undead to be debuff'ed first before they can be turned. (or destroyed in the case OP mentioned)

or may be just use Undeath to Death spell instead? Its a cleric spell too.

Personally, my casters have used this spell on EE at High Road and Gianthold and it worked.

[zwiebelring]

The dev.s are just bad DMs and afraid of one-button-tag-nukes. They are best at diminishing a class feature down to uselessness since forever. I remember a time when clerics could not turn undead in necropolis quests, an area, where they should have reigned... at least turn undead is useful in heroic levels now....yay :3.

To add to the immune undead: I don't waste a general feat on a class without additional feat options like a wizard or fighter for, let's say, Improved Turning and then see the ward symbol or
*immune* above undead mobs.

[SirValentine]

You want to know the funniest part? They are not warded against the "fear" effect from Turn. Only the instant destruction. If you do not train Might Turning, you can still paralyze them in place.


Really? The destruction should not replace the fear, it should be in addition to it. So immunity to one doesn't affect the other. Same way Vorpal/Smiting etc. on red-named...they are immune to the (better) instant-death effect, but still take the (weaker) extra damage.

[karatemack]

Same thing is happening with arcane casters. Monsters basically have death spell immunity due to high fort saves speaking of Storm Horn Mountains on EE. Coincidence?!

Not exactly the same. Other caster classes have the option to do MASSIVE damage as well as instakill. Clerics can't compete with Sorcs (or Wizards) in terms of spell damage. Also, the caster isn't taking feats/enhancements/gear specifically designed to make them effective at killing one certain type of mob. It would be like taking favored enemy dragon then making dragons immune to ranger favored enemy damage. Also also, skeletons are the kobolds of the undead. Imagine if tomorrow every kobold were immune to wail/destruction/finger etc.


The dev.s are just bad DMs and afraid of one-button-tag-nukes. They are best at diminishing a class feature down to uselessness since forever.

I'm glad the DEVS are concerned with balance in the game. It shouldn't be too easy. My argument is that turning (effective turning) is an investment. In the end is it "easy"? Sure, but you had to work really hard to get there.

[nibel]

It would be like taking favored enemy dragon then making dragons immune to ranger favored enemy damage.

You mean, like my enchantment specialist bard spellsinger was suddenly useless past level 20 because all his spell list is useless, other than disco?

I still didn't forgave the devs to make epic ward turn mobs "immune" to charm spells (they last half a second and dispel).

[EllisDee37]

Other caster classes have the option to do MASSIVE damage as well as instakill. Clerics can't compete with Sorcs (or Wizards) in terms of spell damage.In fairness, clerics got a couple fantastic ray spells in the enhancement pass. My cleric loves them to death, but I'm a big fan of rays even on my PM.

[stoerm]

You can craft Eternal Faith with Cannith Crafting. But yeah:

3 Cleric PLs and Turn Undead still doesn't work. (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/417492-3-Cleric-PLs-and-Turn-Undead-still-doesn-t-work)
Turn Undead Still Broken. (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/384530-Turn-Undead-Still-Broken)
Yup, Turn undead still useless (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/112109-Yup-Turn-undead-still-useless)

Just UMD Halt Undead scrolls on any mindless undead, almost as good. ;)

[Vellrad]

Even if they'd removen wards, you still would not be able to turn anything, because all mobs got 3-4 times more hit dies than you levels.

[PermaBanned]

Even if they'd removen wards, you still would not be able to turn anything, because all mobs got 3-4 times more hit dies than you levels.

Which is why in addition to lifting the ward from nonbosses, we need better gear properties than whats available at level 7; but the ward is the place to start for sure.

Edit:
Come on, devs, give us a scaling Turning boost like the seeker, deadly, accuracy etc. I'm not fond of the new system, but maybe you could help me learn to like it a bit more?

[Hendrik]

You can craft Eternal Faith with Cannith Crafting. But yeah:

3 Cleric PLs and Turn Undead still doesn't work. (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/417492-3-Cleric-PLs-and-Turn-Undead-still-doesn-t-work)
Turn Undead Still Broken. (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/384530-Turn-Undead-Still-Broken)
Yup, Turn undead still useless (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/112109-Yup-Turn-undead-still-useless)

Just UMD Halt Undead scrolls on any mindless undead, almost as good. ;)

Oddly, I turn very well all things considered - I am even missing a feat I think...



EE Turning is rough, but EH is pretty good for me. Turning a good deal of Undead in FoT on EH. On average I am getting 2/3rds. Considering how out of line HD are for Turning, feel that is pretty good for a first lifer and missing max turning gear.

[karatemack]

Oddly, I turn very well all things considered - I am even missing a feat I think...



EE Turning is rough, but EH is pretty good for me. Turning a good deal of Undead in FoT on EH. On average I am getting 2/3rds. Considering how out of line HD are for Turning, feel that is pretty good for a first lifer and missing max turning gear.

I bet you don't turn ANY undead in quests where they are warded (because it is impossible). I'm not complaining because <MY> turning isn't good enough, my complaint is that turning is an investment and yet is treated as an exploit. Why make non-red-named mobs immune? Why no additional equipment boosts to turning post level 7?

[NaturalHazard]

I bet you don't turn ANY undead in quests where they are warded (because it is impossible). I'm not complaining because <MY> turning isn't good enough, my complaint is that turning is an investment and yet is treated as an exploit. Why make non-red-named mobs immune? Why no additional equipment boosts to turning post level 7?

Because they want a good reason for all da ghostbane dagnabit!!!!!!!!

[karatemack]

UPDATE:

There are a few quests where things were previously not able to be turned where now they are able to be turned. WAI? Has anyone else noticed this?

Also, there are a few mobs (in Madstone and TOR that I have noticed) which are turnable again as they are spawning but not once they 'activate'. WAI? Has anyone else noticed this?

There are still times when turnable things do not turn and there doesn't seem to be a reason why. No error messages (IE: No turnable creatures, lack of conviction, etc.) Has anyone else noticed this?

[Highlander]

Curious though... if Turbine implemented domains but charged 595TP for it (same price as destinies) and charged 200 TP for epic turning (Sun Domain?), would people still buy domains and splash clerics?

I for one would buy it.

You know, if its free, it may never get implemented...

Sad but True Tyrande. :-/
If it means the difference between getting it and not, I would pay for it.