The Shadow Walker Build (Halfling Assassin)

[Stoner81]

The Shadow Walker
Updated for U23.


About The Build

Greetings and welcome to my build!

This build is designed for those who want to remain in the shadows and to kill without being seen and as such a heavy emphasis has been placed on the DC for the Assassinate ability, on top of this you get a crazy amount of Sneak Attack damage thanks to all the enhancements.

The build itself is really aimed at top end content (level 28) so for leveling in heroic levels it might be slightly trickier than other builds for that reason. However, with the introduction of the Harper tree and getting INT to hit and for damage that should make things easier from a DPS point of view. Unfortunatley the Harper isn't free unless you are VIP and will cost you 495TP for it so that also makes this build a bit more difficult for new players (Turbine have said that the Harper will be avialable as an favor unlock at some point).

So without further ado I present to you Shadow Walker!

The Shadow Walker

Race: Halfling.
Alignment: True Neutral.
Class/Level Split: 20 Rogue/8 Epic

Starting Base Stats At Level 1

STR = 6
DEX = 18
CON = 14
INT = 18 (all level ups here)
WIS = 8
CHA = 8

For 34 and 36 point varients just increase starting CON, the build could work as a 28pt build but you would have to drop DEX a little in order to do it which would mean needing a +4 DEX tome by level 21.

The only tome which is required is a +3 DEX tome by the time you reach level 21 in order to qualify for Epic Sneak Attack, naturally any other stat tomes you have will help. An INT tome isn't "required" per se but it will help your Assassinate DC a lot and it will affect your base damage output so try to get the highest one possible as fast as you can.

Feat Selection

1 - Two Weapon Fighting.
3 - Dodge.
6 - Precision.
9 - Improved Two Weapon Fighting.
10 - Improved Evasion.
12 - Improved Critical: Pierce.
13 - Oppertunist.
15 - Greater Two Weapon Fighting.
16 - Skill Mastery.
18 - Insightful Reflexes.
19 - Skill Mastery.
21 - Epic Sneak Attack.
24 - Overwhelming Critical.
26 - Perfect Two Weapon Fighting.
27 - Epic Damage Reduction.
28 - Elusive Target.

Skills

As a Rogue with maximum skill points (thanks to a high starting INT) you have more skills points than you know what to do with! The main ones to focus on though are as follows (in alphabetical order):

Bluff.
Concentration (heal scrolls in combat).
Diplomacy.
Disable Device.
Haggle.
Hide.
Jump.
Move Silently.
Open Lock.
Search.
Spot.
Tumble.
Use Magic Device (UMD).

With the amount of skill points you get you should be able to easily max these out (23 ranks in each) by the time you are level 20, if you have points left over then put them wherever you wish since it shouldn't really matter as long as the above is maxed out.

Enhancements

Below are the complete enhancements for once you reach level 20.

Mechanic (11 AP)

Core: Arbalester.
Tier 1: Mechanics I.
Tier 1: Awareness III.
Tier 2: Wand and Scroll Master III.

Acrobat (4 AP)

Core: Staff Control.
Tier 1: Faster Sneaking III.

Harper Agent (12 AP)

Core: Agent of Good.
Core: Intelligence.
Core: Agent of Good II.
Core: Intelligence.
Tier 1: Travellers Toughness II.
Tier 1: Strategic Combat.
Tier 2: Versatile Adept III.
Tier 2: Know The Angles III.
Tier 3: Strategic Combat.
Tier 3: Intelligence.
Tier 3: Versatile Adept III.
Tier 4: Versatile Adept I.

Assassin (41 AP)

Core: Knife In The Darkness.
Core: Dagger In The Back.
Core: Assassin's Trick.
Core: Nimbleness.
Core: Lethality.
Core: Deadly Shadow.
Tier 1: Sneak Attack Training.
Tier 1: Stealthy II.
Tier 2: Venomed Blades III.
Tier 2: Sneak Attack Training.
Tier 3: Critical Accuracy III.
Tier 3: Sneak Attack Training.
Tier 3: Intelligence.
Tier 4: Critical Damage III.
Tier 4: Killer III.
Tier 4: Sneak Attack Training.
Tier 4: Intelligence.
Tier 5: Assassinate.
Tier 5: Measure The Foe.
Tier 5: Knife Specialization.

Epic Destiny - Shadowdancer

TBD.

Twists Of Fate

TBD.

Gear Of Note

Heroic Gear

Starting out crafted gear is probably your best bet even if you are a new player, there are lots of crafters on all the servers so ask in the trade channels and see about getting some kit from them. Failing that just use whatever you can find, check the vendors in the Marketplace on a regular basis you can find some good bits of kit for pretty cheap.

At level 8 the Snakeskin vest becomes a valid option for you until level 14 when you can swap to the Gianthold armor/s.

Upon reaching level 12 when you take the Improved Critical feat stick to daggers since you will do more damage with those especially since you should have the T5 enhancement Knife Specialization by then. Since IC: Pierce also works with short swords you could swap to those if the need arose.

Epic Gear

Of particular note are the Epic Midnight Greetings which are just crazy for an Assassin so try and farm those if you can. Check out the the various faction vendors in Eveningstar they have some really really nice kit for your start in to the epic levels, once you get to level 23 Agony - Knife in the Dark is very good for the level.

Final Gear Set

This is something I am currently trying to work on but so far I have the following...

HEAD: Epic Muffled Veneer.
GOGGLES: Epic Mentau Goggles.
BODY: Shadow Dragon Hide with Shadow Killer (+2D6 Sneak Attack dice).
RING:
BOOTS: Epic Boots of Innocence.
GLOVES:
RING:
BELT:
CLOAK:
TRINKET: Manual of Stealthy Pilfering with Diamond of Search +15 slotted (consolidation item).
NECKLACE: Necklace of Mystic Eidolons.

Weapons

Weapons of choice are naturally going to daggers...

Green Steel Healing Amp 10/20/30 (hot swap for Heal scrolls).
2x Thunder Forged Dagger - 1st Degree Burns / Dragons Edge / Mortal Fear with a Metoric Star ruby slotted (trash beater).
2x Thunder Forged Dagger - 1st Degree Burns / Dragons Edge / Crippling Flames with a Metoric Star ruby slotted (boss beater).
1x Thunder Forged Throwing Dagger - 1st Degree Burns / Dragons Edge / Mortal Fear or Crippling Flames with a Metoric Star ruby slotted (everybody needs a ranged weapon so might as well be the best one possible).

Stoner81.

[CThruTheEgo]

A decent build but I have a few questions/comments.

It might just be a visual error, but I notice you do not have an ability increase at level 8. What content are you planning this build for? EE? EH? Any idea what your final assassinate DC will be? If you're looking for some ideas about the gear set, check out the link to my assassin in my sig.

Precision is pretty much a must have on a pure rogue. 25% fort bypass is huge for a sneak attack based dps build. If you're planning on using EMG and Agony, then you really don't need weapon finesse. Knife specialization actually gives daggers/kukris a better crit profile than rapiers/shortswords. I would drop weapon finesse and take precision in its place.

You probably don't need skill focus UMD. Calculate what your UMD will be with/without buffs and gear swaps to see how much this is actually needed. You might consider imp crit slash for better dps from EMG. Unless you plan on swapping weapons every 12 seconds when assassinate is off timer, you will pretty much have EMG equipped all the time against trash, so imp crit can be a nice boost. I wouldn't say either skill focus UMD or imp crit slash is a must have (unlike precision), so its really up to you which one you want more. But my guess is you really won't need the UMD boost.

Blinding speed is available on a variety of gear both named and lootgen. Personally, I prefer to have it in my gear set and use this feat slot for epic damage reduction. You won't get a lot of damage mitigation on a pure rogue no matter what you do, but some is certainly useful to handle the spike damage.

Tactician should not affect your assassinate DC (it's bugged if it does) as assassinate is not considered a combat feat, so this is useless for you. Consider elusive target instead. It's an automatic 5% miss chance against all physical damage (including spells that do physical damage).

Regarding the rogue feats. Crippling strike is kind of a waste imo. Enemies are resistant to stat damage on both EE and EH, so its effect is minimal at best. Slippery mind sounds useful but when you realize that the will save of a pure rogue is so low that you are most likely going to fail no matter what, then you see that the feat just allows you to fail twice. Besides that, nearly anything with a will save can be negated through the right buffs. Protection from evil (available as a clicky or wand) will protect you from almost everything requiring a will save. And as a UMD class you should have no problem providing yourself with such buffs. So I would drop both of these feats and take skill mastery instead. That will give you another 2 UMD, in fact, which would make it easier to drop skill focus UMD.

The last thing I'll mention are enhancements. Points are tight on an int based assassin and its hard to spend much on the racial tree. On a halfling you basically have to choose between 2 points of int from mechanic (1 assassinate DC will make a difference on EE, not so much on EH though), haste boost and subtlety from acrobat, or the halfling sneak attack line. It depends on your goals for the character which of those are most valuable and which are worth sacrificing, but you simply can't take it all.

For your enhancements, in acrobat I would drop stick fighting and take subtlety rank 3 instead. Threat reduction is vital for all of your dps but stick fighting will only help you when using your triple positive quarterstaff against skeletons, which isn't that often at endgame. In the mechanic tree, I prefer more awareness than mechanics. I find spot to be one of a rogue's weak points against traps and you shouldn't need the boost to disable or trap saves. But this is a personal preference, not vital. In the assassin tree, I would definitely pick up venomed blades. It's a nice dps addition. You need 6 points to get rank 3. You don't need the bonus to hide/move silently, so you can drop those for 3 points. I'd take the other 3 points from dropping/lowering some combination of execute, crit accuracy and damage, and killer.

Those are my thoughts, I hope they help. How much many of my comments matter depends a lot on your goals for the character. And +1 for your first build.

EDIT: I just looked at the ED list. You are probably going to want at least some int to boost your assassinate DC.

[Stoner81]

A decent build but I have a few questions/comments.

It might just be a visual error, but I notice you do not have an ability increase at level 8. What content are you planning this build for? EE? EH? Any idea what your final assassinate DC will be?

I will double check the ability increase at level and see what is going on. As for content difficulty probably looking at EH at most until fully geared up and then maybe EE but as long as it can do EH that's fine by me :) as for the Assassinate DC I have no idea how to calculate it manually.

EDIT - Just checked and it seems I missed the ability increase, new build will have it included :)


Precision is pretty much a must have on a pure rogue. 25% fort bypass is huge for a sneak attack based dps build. If you're planning on using EMG and Agony, then you really don't need weapon finesse. Knife specialization actually gives daggers/kukris a better crit profile than rapiers/shortswords. I would drop weapon finesse and take precision in its place.

With everything else I just could not fit Precision in though having said once in to epics could swap Weapon Finesse at level 20 for it though.

EDIT - Weapon Finesse should work with Celestia due to Assassin enhancements so that will cover breaking DR though the procs on Celestia could cause issues with aggro.


You probably don't need skill focus UMD. Calculate what your UMD will be with/without buffs and gear swaps to see how much this is actually needed. You might consider imp crit slash for better dps from EMG. Unless you plan on swapping weapons every 12 seconds when assassinate is off timer, you will pretty much have EMG equipped all the time against trash, so imp crit can be a nice boost. I wouldn't say either skill focus UMD or imp crit slash is a must have (unlike precision), so its really up to you which one you want more. But my guess is you really won't need the UMD boost.

Improved Critical: Slashing was taken at lvl 12 :)

UMD Focus you could well be right to be honest I just could not think of anything better to take.

EDIT - UMD Focus has been removed and replaced with Great INT since I could see anything better.

[
Blinding speed is available on a variety of gear both named and lootgen. Personally, I prefer to have it in my gear set and use this feat slot for epic damage reduction. You won't get a lot of damage mitigation on a pure rogue no matter what you do, but some is certainly useful to handle the spike damage.

I keep having a similar thought about my fighter to be honest on Blinding Speed so will look in to this.

EDIT - Blinding Speed removed and replaced with Epic DR.


Tactician should not affect your assassinate DC (it's bugged if it does) as assassinate is not considered a combat feat, so this is useless for you. Consider elusive target instead. It's an automatic 5% miss chance against all physical damage (including spells that do physical damage).

That's a bummer ah well Elusive Target it is then :)

EDIT - Added Elusive Target.


Regarding the rogue feats. Crippling strike is kind of a waste imo. Enemies are resistant to stat damage on both EE and EH, so its effect is minimal at best. Slippery mind sounds useful but when you realize that the will save of a pure rogue is so low that you are most likely going to fail no matter what, then you see that the feat just allows you to fail twice. Besides that, nearly anything with a will save can be negated through the right buffs. Protection from evil (available as a clicky or wand) will protect you from almost everything requiring a will save. And as a UMD class you should have no problem providing yourself with such buffs. So I would drop both of these feats and take skill mastery instead. That will give you another 2 UMD, in fact, which would make it easier to drop skill focus UMD.

Yeah I see your point, these feats I find a little "lackluster" to be perfectly honest and your reasoning here makes perfect sense :)

EDIT - The two lousy feats have been replaced with Skill Mastery instead.


The last thing I'll mention are enhancements. Points are tight on an int based assassin and its hard to spend much on the racial tree. On a halfling you basically have to choose between 2 points of int from mechanic (1 assassinate DC will make a difference on EE, not so much on EH though), haste boost and subtlety from acrobat, or the halfling sneak attack line. It depends on your goals for the character which of those are most valuable and which are worth sacrificing, but you simply can't take it all.

For your enhancements, in acrobat I would drop stick fighting and take subtlety rank 3 instead. Threat reduction is vital for all of your dps but stick fighting will only help you when using your triple positive quarterstaff against skeletons, which isn't that often at endgame. In the mechanic tree, I prefer more awareness than mechanics. I find spot to be one of a rogue's weak points against traps and you shouldn't need the boost to disable or trap saves. But this is a personal preference, not vital. In the assassin tree, I would definitely pick up venomed blades. It's a nice dps addition. You need 6 points to get rank 3. You don't need the bonus to hide/move silently, so you can drop those for 3 points. I'd take the other 3 points from dropping/lowering some combination of execute, crit accuracy and damage, and killer.

Enhancements were a frickin' nightmare to be honest and I'm still not overly happy with them, could really do with another 4-6 points or so then I would be happy :)


Those are my thoughts, I hope they help. How much many of my comments matter depends a lot on your goals for the character. And +1 for your first build.

EDIT: I just looked at the ED list. You are probably going to want at least some int to boost your assassinate DC.

Thanks for the constructive/productive feedback was exactly what I was looking so again thank you! As for ED's it was just something I could think of straight away really nothing more, the build needs fine tuning which I expected since it's my first proper build so to speak. I will take in everything you have suggested and look at it all tomorrow and post up a new version of it.

Stoner81.

[Stoner81]

First post updated with the new build :) thanks for the suggestions, defo going to leave enhancements till tomorrow now though.

Stoner81.

[CThruTheEgo]

Improved Critical: Slashing was taken at lvl 12 :)

Ah, I just assumed it was imp crit pierce. My main point was it's useful to have both for a DC based assassin since you'll likely be using Agony and EMG most of the time. Only having one of the imp crits means a dps loss. I'd take pierce at 12 since there's a variety of good named daggers and few kukris.

Regarding weapon finesse, what weapons do you plan to use in heroic levels that will make this feat useful?

[Stoner81]

Ah, I just assumed it was imp crit pierce. My main point was it's useful to have both for a DC based assassin since you'll likely be using Agony and EMG most of the time. Only having one of the imp crits means a dps loss. I'd take pierce at 12 since there's a variety of good named daggers and few kukris.

Regarding weapon finesse, what weapons do you plan to use in heroic levels that will make this feat useful?

Envenomed Blades from the LoD chain are awesome for the level and work very well up to cap then switch to EMG's (once I have grinded for them), other than that though pretty much anything would work. Originally I used Khopeshes for leveling until I reached 16 then got the Envenomed Blades but I built the character to go with STR and some DEX over huge INT for leveling purposes, then the enhancement pass arrived and everything changed and I wanted to go INT/DEX based. Also once in to epics Weapon Finesse will come in to play with Celestia since it's a short sword.

As for Imp Crit Pierce to some degree I don't see the point in getting it, Agony has Keen I so it won't stack with IC:Pierce and EMG's do slashing damage however, for leveling up in heroics it could be useful.

Stoner81.

PS - I am working on the enhancements now :)

PPS - New enhancements are done, dropped Stick Fighting (which I didn't want to do but had to) and got the full Subtlety line and Wand & Scroll Mastery II for Heal scrolls.

[CThruTheEgo]

Envenomed Blades from the LoD chain are awesome for the level and work very well up to cap then switch to EMG's (once I have grinded for them), other than that though pretty much anything would work. Originally I used Khopeshes for leveling until I reached 16 then got the Envenomed Blades but I built the character to go with STR and some DEX over huge INT for leveling purposes, then the enhancement pass arrived and everything changed and I wanted to go INT/DEX based. Also once in to epics Weapon Finesse will come in to play with Celestia since it's a short sword.

As for Imp Crit Pierce to some degree I don't see the point in getting it, Agony has Keen I so it won't stack with IC:Pierce and EMG's do slashing damage however, for leveling up in heroics it could be useful.

Stoner81.

PS - I am working on the enhancements now :)

PPS - New enhancements are done, dropped Stick Fighting (which I didn't want to do but had to) and got the full Subtlety line and Wand & Scroll Mastery II for Heal scrolls.

I forgot Agony has keen on it. Imp crit pierce works with Celestia if you're planning to use that. I have a crafter so I just use crafted DR breakers. If you have access to a crafter you could just make them all kukris and then not have to worry about imp crit pierce at all, although there are some decent named daggers but only one named kukri worth having.

[Stoner81]

My TR toon is a crafting monkey and can make recipes up to level 100 atm so that is certainly an option. I am surprised about IC:Pierce working with Celestia since it does Light damage but hey ho you learn something new everyday :)

As for IC:Pierce feats are just too tight on a Halfling, if it was Human then it could be doable due to the extra feat but on a 32pt build the starting stats suffer on a Human since Halflings get +2 DEX at creation, I might make up the stats for 34pt and 36pt builds in case anybody wants them.

So far I have only run this toon with guild buddies but it has worked very well (not the build in the first post) being in a group it really has shined but I guess that is where a Rogue excels anyway so you would expect that to be the case. Once I switch over to the build in the first post I am convinced it will be even better than what it is now.

Stoner81.

[Bolo_Grubb]

Envenomed Blades from the LoD chain are awesome for the level and work very well up to cap .

Just in case you were not aware, Envenomed blades can use dex for hit and damage. So no need to take weapon finesse for just those.

[Stoner81]

Just in case you were not aware, Envenomed blades can use dex for hit and damage. So no need to take weapon finesse for just those.

<insert monumentally epic facepalm.jpg here>

I can't believe I didn't spot that! Either way Weapon Finesse is needed since it's a STR dump build so as you can at least hit the broad side of barn (just about :)) will look at doing 34pt stats and 36 point stats in a short while.

Stoner81.

PS - Updated the first post now with 34pt and 36pt variants, also updated gear lists a little too.

[sephiroth1084]

Two things:

First, if you have GTWF, and Perfect TWF, why would you want to be using a quarterstaff for any reason? Wit the Assassin core enhancements, you should be able to get Dex-to-damage with light maces if you have Weapon Finesse--that's a decent reason to have the feat. That there are also some pretty good named shortswords and rapiers serves to improve the stock of Weapon Finesse, especially if you are in the process of acquiring the really good daggers and kukri.


Second, a query: I've noticed across a few similar threads (including Hassan's Assassin) that no one mentions Radiance weapons any more. Has everyone just decided that Blindness is too irritating to deal with? I'm still using my Radiance II greendsteel (a rapier until I get around to crafting a dagger), and it has continue to prove very useful. On stuff you can't Assassinate, but can blind (orange named), and stuff with saves too high to Assassinate (or who rolled well against your attempt) and with enough HP to be dangerous for a while, the blindness effect ensures you have your sneak attack damage running, even when you have aggro (useful when soloing, too), and gives everyone Displacement vs. that creature. Just wondering why this useful effect, previously a staple of rogues everywhere, goes entirely unmentioned by most people these days.

[Stoner81]

First, if you have GTWF, and Perfect TWF, why would you want to be using a quarterstaff for any reason? Wit the Assassin core enhancements, you should be able to get Dex-to-damage with light maces if you have Weapon Finesse--that's a decent reason to have the feat. That there are also some pretty good named shortswords and rapiers serves to improve the stock of Weapon Finesse, especially if you are in the process of acquiring the really good daggers and kukri.

It was the best thing I could think of to beat down skeletons with.


Second, a query: I've noticed across a few similar threads (including Hassan's Assassin) that no one mentions Radiance weapons any more. Has everyone just decided that Blindness is too irritating to deal with? I'm still using my Radiance II greendsteel (a rapier until I get around to crafting a dagger), and it has continue to prove very useful. On stuff you can't Assassinate, but can blind (orange named), and stuff with saves too high to Assassinate (or who rolled well against your attempt) and with enough HP to be dangerous for a while, the blindness effect ensures you have your sneak attack damage running, even when you have aggro (useful when soloing, too), and gives everyone Displacement vs. that creature. Just wondering why this useful effect, previously a staple of rogues everywhere, goes entirely unmentioned by most people these days.

With the sheer amount of power that characters can have stuff just doesn't last that long for Radiance to be used imho, plenty of people still swear by it but personally I have never used it but I will look in to it.

Stoner81.

PS - Swapped Toughness for Precision at lvl 6. With items, ED's etc I suspect this could still see 500HP at level cap.

[sephiroth1084]

It was the best thing I could think of to beat down skeletons with. It's more time and ingredients, but I think you'd be better off with a pair of Triple Pos Light Maces. With PTWF, you've got almost 95% more attacks than you do with the quarterstaff.* Remember, you have 80% off-hand from GTWF, 5% DS, and 10% off-hand DS. That's a LOT of damage you're losing by using a two-hander.


*Ignoring base differences in attack speed (I believe quarterstaves have always been near the top of the curve for attack speed, so you may be looking at maybe being at a 60% increased attack rate).




With the sheer amount of power that characters can have stuff just doesn't last that long for Radiance to be used imho, plenty of people still swear by it but personally I have never used it but I will look in to it.

Stoner81.
Depends what you're running, and who with, I suppose. I did about half of an EE GH Saga run the other night with a good group (no deaths, fairly quick runs), and I found the Radiance to be quite helpful: on casters it keeps them from throwing spells to a degree, which is a big boon. As the rogue in the group, I'd sneak past the heavies and try to assassinate the clerics or wizards hanging out further back, and if I failed, I'd get them blinded in short order. The Aurum casters have quite a lot of HP, so it's not like you're going to finish them off in one Bluff or some such, or even get a vorpal kill quickly, so dropping some no-save CC on them is a big plus in my book. Their running around is kind of a pain, but you can fence them in a little, by using the environment and your allies, or just chase them around. Unless your group is tearing through everything, or it's the last mob standing, one or two enemies running around like chickens with their heads cut off instead of attacking or casting isn't a bad thing, especially when those attacks come with a 50% miss chance stapled on, and being open to your sneak attacks.

I don't know that I would use it full-time once I get something like Agony, but it's worth having in your arsenal, in my opinion. Mind you, Radiance appear(ed) on random loot, so you don't necessarily need a greensteel version (and the random epic loot will be at +1[W] instead of +0.5), but having some control over what other effects you have on the weapon is a good thing, obviously, and bursts and blasts are well worthwhile on 15-20/x3 weapons.

[jakeelala]

It's more time and ingredients, but I think you'd be better off with a pair of Triple Pos Light Maces. With PTWF, you've got almost 95% more attacks than you do with the quarterstaff.* Remember, you have 80% off-hand from GTWF, 5% DS, and 10% off-hand DS. That's a LOT of damage you're losing by using a two-hander.


*Ignoring base differences in attack speed (I believe quarterstaves have always been near the top of the curve for attack speed, so you may be looking at maybe being at a 60% increased attack rate).



Depends what you're running, and who with, I suppose. I did about half of an EE GH Saga run the other night with a good group (no deaths, fairly quick runs), and I found the Radiance to be quite helpful: on casters it keeps them from throwing spells to a degree, which is a big boon. As the rogue in the group, I'd sneak past the heavies and try to assassinate the clerics or wizards hanging out further back, and if I failed, I'd get them blinded in short order. The Aurum casters have quite a lot of HP, so it's not like you're going to finish them off in one Bluff or some such, or even get a vorpal kill quickly, so dropping some no-save CC on them is a big plus in my book. Their running around is kind of a pain, but you can fence them in a little, by using the environment and your allies, or just chase them around. Unless your group is tearing through everything, or it's the last mob standing, one or two enemies running around like chickens with their heads cut off instead of attacking or casting isn't a bad thing, especially when those attacks come with a 50% miss chance stapled on, and being open to your sneak attacks.

I don't know that I would use it full-time once I get something like Agony, but it's worth having in your arsenal, in my opinion. Mind you, Radiance appear(ed) on random loot, so you don't necessarily need a greensteel version (and the random epic loot will be at +1[W] instead of +0.5), but having some control over what other effects you have on the weapon is a good thing, obviously, and bursts and blasts are well worthwhile on 15-20/x3 weapons.

if you don't have GS or Celestia you can turn in 15 Cleric comms for a Star of Day which has a pretty good chance of spawning Radiance on it (i got mine the first turn in). But really Radiance GS daggers would probably be the best for the 15-20x3 Crits though

[psykopeta]

polycurse dagger, don't forget the polycurse dagger, paralyzing is meh, u have to do it really wrong to need paralyzing weapons as a rogue

and y, i made a similar toon, spending int on lvl ups for assassinate dc and enhancements on dex and halfling SA line for dps (ring of lies rules, rad2 on main hand too, only 1)

iirc dc was 55 or so, more than enough for EH, also if you push dc higher(not hard, just hit with the nerf bat to everything dex related) u'll be useful assassinating on EE, but useless soloing on EH at bosses

btw, if u have lvled this toon, will notice that restore potions are ur best friend: ray of enfeeblement = heavy encumbered (til lvl 11 or so when 3 tome + 2 buffs + 6 item keep u over the encumbered line)

2was funny tho

[Stoner81]

Great info folks thanks, keep it coming :)

Stoner81.

[CThruTheEgo]

First, if you have GTWF, and Perfect TWF, why would you want to be using a quarterstaff for any reason? Wit the Assassin core enhancements, you should be able to get Dex-to-damage with light maces if you have Weapon Finesse--that's a decent reason to have the feat. That there are also some pretty good named shortswords and rapiers serves to improve the stock of Weapon Finesse, especially if you are in the process of acquiring the really good daggers and kukri.


It's more time and ingredients, but I think you'd be better off with a pair of Triple Pos Light Maces. With PTWF, you've got almost 95% more attacks than you do with the quarterstaff.* Remember, you have 80% off-hand from GTWF, 5% DS, and 10% off-hand DS. That's a LOT of damage you're losing by using a two-hander.

This is a good point, if you're taking weapon finesse then you should definitely be using dual triple positive light maces over a quarterstaff. And now you've got me thinking about fitting in weapon finesse on my build for just this purpose. I don't think it matters for most skeletons but the most run raid in the game right now has a sleleton for a boss, so it's probably a good idea to max your damage against him. I've got a lot of coms to farm out...


Second, a query: I've noticed across a few similar threads (including Hassan's Assassin) that no one mentions Radiance weapons any more.

I have a rad2 rapier from my first life and now a rad2 dagger since the enhancement pass. The dagger is still almost always in use but I'm also in heroics with my build atm. I'm sure it'll still be something I swap to on occasion even at endgame but, as you mentioned, once you get something like Agony it probably won't be in full time use. That's the main reason why I didn't mention it.


polycurse dagger, don't forget the polycurse dagger, paralyzing is meh, u have to do it really wrong to need paralyzing weapons as a rogue

Polycurse dagger is great, especially when used with the trinket that prevents you from getting cursed constantly. I agree that paralyzing is pretty weak. It doesn't proc even half as much as the paralyzing from an arcane archer. Rad2 dagger and polycurse dagger is a great combo though and my main weapon set for trash.

[Stoner81]

Yeah it is a very good point about the light maces, I will set about looking more in to gear and stuff this weekend with a bit of luck and see if I can pad out the build a bit more to be more comprehensive with everything.

Stoner81.

[Stoner81]

With the new Harper tree incomming which allows INT for to-hit and for damage rolls I will be looking at re-doing this build for that. Now depending on how many AP's are need Assassinate might go out the window since they are tighter than a tight thing already and I don't know where to pull stuff from.

It could could end up being max INT with just enough in DEX for the TWF feats and whatever is left in to CON.

Stoner81.

[ArcaneArcher52689]

With the new Harper tree incomming which allows INT for to-hit and for damage rolls I will be looking at re-doing this build for that. Now depending on how many AP's are need Assassinate might go out the window since they are tighter than a tight thing already and I don't know where to pull stuff from.

It could could end up being max INT with just enough in DEX for the TWF feats and whatever is left in to CON.

Stoner81.

I've got a first life shadarkai lined up to test this as soon as it comes out.

[Stoner81]

Actually now that I think about it if Assassinate gets dropped then there is going to be little point in being INT based it would probably be better going STR based since there are so many things to buff it and heck even multiclass it which is another whole can of worms! At this rate it could end up being a totally new build all together!

Oooo decisions decisions!

Stoner81.

[Stoner81]

Well from the looks of Lamma land they moved the INT to damage enhancement to tier 3 so it's going to take a fair few points to get to it and I can't see how to pull anything like that from anywhere else without drastically changing the build :(

Stoner81.

[Saekee]

Well from the looks of Lamma land they moved the INT to damage enhancement to tier 3 so it's going to take a fair few points to get to it and I can't see how to pull anything like that from anywhere else without drastically changing the build :(

Stoner81.

tier 3 only takes 10 to unlock--is it that problematic? What are you looking at as the tradeoff?

[Stoner81]

tier 3 only takes 10 to unlock--is it that problematic? What are you looking at as the tradeoff?

That is still 10 points that I just can't seem to find from anywhere, everything in the Assassin tree is pretty much required as is the Wand and Scroll Mastery from the Mechanic tree plus everything else over there. Some of the sneak attack could go from the racial tree I guess but the build focuses on sneak attack for damage output.

EDIT - I really need to sort out the first post and clean it up a lot not to mention heavily update gear lists etc.

Stoner81.

[Saekee]

That is still 10 points that I just can't seem to find from anywhere, everything in the Assassin tree is pretty much required as is the Wand and Scroll Mastery from the Mechanic tree plus everything else over there. Some of the sneak attack could go from the racial tree I guess but the build focuses on sneak attack for damage output.

EDIT - I really need to sort out the first post and clean it up a lot not to mention heavily update gear lists etc.

Stoner81.

Great--we are looking for builds to post on the new Stealth site so let me know when you finish the updates!

[CThruTheEgo]

That is still 10 points that I just can't seem to find from anywhere, everything in the Assassin tree is pretty much required as is the Wand and Scroll Mastery from the Mechanic tree plus everything else over there. Some of the sneak attack could go from the racial tree I guess but the build focuses on sneak attack for damage output.

EDIT - I really need to sort out the first post and clean it up a lot not to mention heavily update gear lists etc.

Stoner81.

I realize that this build is based on maxing sneak attack through the halfling enhancements, but I'm sure that you'd do more dps by taking those points from halfling and investing them in harper. Not only from having a higher damage stat (int), but also from melee power. You also have the option of keeping the halfling enhancements and sacrificing some utility by taking points from mechanic and/or acrobat. This would result in max dps but less versatility.

[Stoner81]

Great--we are looking for builds to post on the new Stealth site so let me know when you finish the updates!

Will do :)


I realize that this build is based on maxing sneak attack through the halfling enhancements, but I'm sure that you'd do more dps by taking those points from halfling and investing them in harper. Not only from having a higher damage stat (int), but also from melee power. You also have the option of keeping the halfling enhancements and sacrificing some utility by taking points from mechanic and/or acrobat. This would result in max dps but less versatility.

Currently on live I do about 100 points of damage per swing per hand via Sneak Attack, once U23 goes active that should jump to 300 per hand per swing (SA gets 200% bonus), really I think I'm going to need the new character planner to figure this out but I could do it on live I guess... and on top of all that Overwhelming Critical is much easier to get, if I manage to get INT to hit as well then Weapon Finesse goes out the window too which frees up a feat slot... wow so much to think about and not enough time to do it all in lol!

Stoner81.

[Stoner81]

Now that the Harper tree is out I am looking in to getting this updated as much as possible, currently working out a new layout along with feat selections, enhancements and hopefully gear.

Stoner81.

[Stoner81]

OK folks the first post has been heavily updated for U23 and the Harper tree! I am still working on a final gear list and ED stuff but I'm getting there slowly :)

Stoner81.

[CThruTheEgo]

A few comments about enhancements. I'd suggest dropping some or all points from halfling to spend in harper. I think you'd get much better value out of your AP that way.

With insightful reflexes and strategic combat 1 and 2, halfling dex is doing absolutely nothing for you.

I don't know what your final int is, but with 52 int, know the angles provides the exact same amount of average damage as all three tiers of halfling guile, and is cheaper since you need to spend points in halfling to unlock the higher tiers whereas you've already got know the angles unlocked by unlocking strategic combat 2. You have to spend 5 AP to even unlock the first tier of guile and you don't get much for those 5. With an int above 52, know the angles just pulls ahead of guile.

Also keep in mind that every 2 points of int that you pick up increases both your damage and DC by 1, and you can get up to 4 int from harper. Not to mention the other 6 melee power that are available, which affects your base damage, sneak attack damage, and venomed blades.

I think wand and scroll mastery is a decent investment for you since you don't have access to any racial heal amp. Heal scrolls with no heal amp other than the heal amp stick and no wand and scroll mastery hit for about 200.

So overall I think you'll do a lot more dps, and have a higher DC, by dropping the halfling tree altogether and spending those points in harper.

[Stoner81]

The thought of that had crossed my miind but Sneak Attack is boosted up by 200% with Melee Power which is huge amounts of DPS, the pluis side is at least it's only enhancements so it is just plat to change stuff round and put it back again so it's nice and easy. Somehow on live my character has ended up with a few wrong feats so gonna have to swap those round over the coming week or so and see how things go from there. Currently scrolls hit me for either 247 or 274 each with only 30% healing amp (just not sure which number) so with a 10/20/30 healing amp item that should jump up well over 300 which isn't bad.

What does Know the Angles work with then since it states tactical feats?

For Epic Destiny I am thinking Shadowdancer and picking up all 6 INT points which leaves no/little room for an epic moment but it's 25% Incorporeal which is handy to be sure to but not that great for an epic moment so wondering if it's even worth bothering with.

Thanks for your input as always :)

EDIT - Swapped it all round and put all 16 points from the Halfling tree in to Harper, current INT is 51 in an off destiny with some lousy gear (I am working on it though) and picked up Know the Angles and all the Melee Power and I could get my hands on.

Stoner81.

[CThruTheEgo]

The thought of that had crossed my miind but Sneak Attack is boosted up by 200% with Melee Power

I knew that venomed blades was boosted by 200% melee power, but I didn't know sneak attack damage was also. That changes things a bit then.

[Saekee]

which twists are working for you?

[Stoner81]

I knew that venomed blades was boosted by 200% melee power, but I didn't know sneak attack damage was also. That changes things a bit then.

As luck would have it I can't find the post/whatever that actually stated this, I haven't run her yet since the update so need to check to make sure things are working properly.


which twists are working for you?

I'm not really sure to be honest... she is more of an alt project so she doesn't get the time she needs really and I don't know what she would benefit from the most.

Stoner81.

[Saekee]

Cthru has these: 1) sense weakness (FotW tier 4)
2) hail of blows (GMoF tier 2, 3% doublestrike)
3) brace for impact (unyielding sentinal tier 1, 40% fort, +2 saves)
Alternatives: int (magister or draconic), extra action boost (legendary dreadnaught tier 1, 3 action boosts), rejuvenation cocoon (primal tier 1), primal scream (fury tier 1), energy sheath electric (draconic tier 1)

I believe Nokowi maximizes his INT score--super solid build and player as well.
I was wondering how Sense weakness would work with Primal Avatar Tier 3 Balanced Attacks : Passive You gain a +[2/4/6] Primal bonus to Attack as long as you are shapeshifted into an animal form, wielding two weapons, or unarmed. Rank 3: Knock down enemies for 2 seconds on vorpal hit. Enemies knocked down by this effect are helpless.

With both Sense weakness and the massive sneak attack damage that is now even further amplified, I figure that once that helpless state kicks in, it's over...Just when you need it, when you are toe-to-toe

[Stoner81]

Those seem like a very solid starting point for sure :) I'm still trying to get AP's sorted out there just isn't enough of them by a mile *cry*

EDIT - I forgot all about Faster Sneaking so I have included that in the enhancements, the first post has been updated again.

Stoner81.

[Rauven]

You're missing your level 10 feat, which I assume is Imp Evasion since it seems to be the only one missing.

[Stoner81]

You're missing your level 10 feat, which I assume is Imp Evasion since it seems to be the only one missing.

Well spotted thanks! I will update the OP :)

Stoner81.

[Norbs]

Thx much for this nice build ... I was looking for an assassin life for the 5th life of my main character and wanted something adapted to U23 ... this build and your discussion helped me a lot.

But I have a question = as you dropped fully the halfing tree (and I understand the reason why), what's the point in keeping halfing as the race ? Wouldn't it be better to go for an human instead ?

I am thinking going human, and being LG instead of Neutral. It will allow me to equip 2 triple positive GS mace to fight undeads from lvl 11.

What are your thoughts on this ? Any recommandation on the added feat ?

Thx much in advance.

[Stoner81]

Thx much for this nice build ... I was looking for an assassin life for the 5th life of my main character and wanted something adapted to U23 ... this build and your discussion helped me a lot.

But I have a question = as you dropped fully the halfing tree (and I understand the reason why), what's the point in keeping halfing as the race ? Wouldn't it be better to go for an human instead ?

I am thinking going human, and being LG instead of Neutral. It will allow me to equip 2 triple positive GS mace to fight undeads from lvl 11.

What are your thoughts on this ? Any recommandation on the added feat ?

Thx much in advance.

I am still messing about with this but Human is a good alternative for the extra feat but I have no idea on what would be good to take apart from maybe Toughness. As for the alignment, triple positive Green Steel doesn't need a Good aligned character in order to use them (afaik). Since my Druid who is Lawful Neutral can use a +++ Short Sword without issue. Being True Netural means you take less Unholy damage from Priestesses and similar things and as/when/if you get Epic Litany of the Dead you won't suffer a negative level. Being a Rogue you will have a high UMD score so you can use that to equip items etc during levelling.

Stoner81.

PS - Hassan's Assassin is good Human build if you want one to have a look at :), for me there is something very satisfying being able to assassinate a huge monster with a Halfling it just cracks me up every time :P

[Stoner81]

Something of a necro here but...

I have been extremely busy with work so I just don't get to keep as up to date on things as I would like, with that in mind I do know A LOT has changes with Rogues with the tree's being redone. Are Assassins still worth the effort these days? In game all I ever see are Mechanics with crossbows.

Stoner81.

[CThruTheEgo]

Something of a necro here but...

I have been extremely busy with work so I just don't get to keep as up to date on things as I would like, with that in mind I do know A LOT has changes with Rogues with the tree's being redone. Are Assassins still worth the effort these days? In game all I ever see are Mechanics with crossbows.

Stoner81.

Assassins are in great shape. Dex based human or halfling is the way to go now. Check out Hassan's Assassin in my sig for both versions.

[Stoner81]

Assassins are in great shape. Dex based human or halfling is the way to go now. Check out Hassan's Assassin in my sig for both versions.

DEX based huh? Reflex save (aka Evasion) along with DEX to hit and damage?

Stoner81.

[CThruTheEgo]

DEX based huh? Reflex save (aka Evasion) along with DEX to hit and damage?

Stoner81.

Dex or int can now be used for assassinate, so yes to all of the above. Plus, dex based has great synergy with acrobat for some nice defensive benefits.

[Stoner81]

Dex or int can now be used for assassinate, so yes to all of the above. Plus, dex based has great synergy with acrobat for some nice defensive benefits.

Hmm will have to look further in to it I think once my main PC is up and running again.

Stoner81.