Radiant Titan revisited - Clr17/Pal2/Ftr1 melee/healing spec

[sirgog]

Preamble:

I've run a WF FVS for a long time and haven't been happy with their performance since update 11. Before U11 they could do basically anything (including solohealing an elite VOD while also maintanking the boss, albeit with a bard reconstructing me). But the game has changed and DR 13/- isn't nearly as relevant when bosses hit for over 400.

Finally while melee DPS output has skyrocketed for 'real' melee classes, Divine Punishment hasn't kept pace. My FVS was doing anemic damage, killing one mob in the time it took a barbarian to kill five (where back in the build's day I'd have killed three with melee attacks and hurt a fourth badly with Divine Punishment in that time).

Here's an attempt at a divine that can achieve the following goals, in the spirit of the old Soul Survivor build:

- Raidhealing: the character must be good enough at healing to soloheal epic elite 6-player dungeons and to two-heal epic elite raids.
- Significant melee DPS: the character must be able to contribute something significant to the group's success and completion speed when intense healing isn't required.
- Durability: the character needs to be downright tough to kill.
- Powerful solo: I want the toon to be able to perform well solo (although not necessarily be amazing at it).


Introducing: The Radiant Titan

This is a 36 point build. You are welcome to try with 34 or less but I don't recommend it.
I assume you will have access to +3 tomes early in your character's life and +4s in time. (Any +5s you fluke are a bonus). If these are beyond your reach now, remember EH VON3 has ~10 chests, drops +3 straight tomes and 3-to-4 upgrades, and is run a lot by most high level players in 15 minutes or less.

IMPORTANT: You MUST be Lawful Good for this build. Remember that in character creation, alignment swaps are not cheap.

Recommended Past Lives:
Like most melee builds, the build gains more from Paladin past lives (for the passive healing amp) than anything, although it can get some use out of other PLs too. It gains little from the main caster lives and if you have a toon with multiple FvS and Wiz lives you might be better served by another build altogether.

Race:
Human.
Part of your durability is your passive healing from your aura, which drastically increases the amount of damage you can suffer without having to spend a healing cooldown on yourself.
Humans and Half-elves have by far the best healing amplification of any race, giving them the best synergy with this build. As you are feat starved, human is the obvious choice.

Class split:
With the power level of Mass Heal and Energy Drain being so high, going under Clr17 is a very high cost. Drain does ~60000 damage no save to some EE orangenameds when they are at full health – meaning that if you cast Drain once and then go AFK all fight you will still likely be the group's top DPS.
I had previously run this build as Clr17/Mnk2/Ftr1 but found the saves too low to get maximum value from Evasion. Pal2 offers a lot to you now - stellar saves, the higher PRR of heavy armor (compared to Monk splashes in light armor) and more.

Level order:
I do not believe this matters much now, except go Clr at level 1 so you aren't crossclass training into Heal.

Feat selection:

Melee feats:
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Two-Handed Fighting
ITHF
GTHF
Improved Critical: Slashing
Overwhelming Critical

Healing feats: (Some of these have incidental other uses, such as Divine Punishment/Bladebarrier)
Quicken Spell
Empower Healing
Maximize Spell

Destiny feats:
I'll have to look into these a bit more.

Stat array:
Please note - this is intended as a 36 point build.

Str: 16 + all level up points.
Dex: 14*
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10**
Cha: 16

* I feel the need to explain this. I feel +3 Reflex saves helps your survivability quite a bit. But feel free to experiment, your results may vary. I hate hearing 'can't heal, Cometfalled' in raid situations.
You will notice an extraordinary emphasis in gear toward Reflex saves for this reason – again, you are welcome to play around with other setups.
** This is not new player friendly. Remember you can't cast spells without level-appropriate +Wisdom items. Again I'm assuming you have the resources to trade for +3 tomes.


Epic Destiny choice:
Legendary Dreadnought.
However, you should also seriously develop Unyielding Sentinel (for those situations where you just want to be tough as nails), Exalted Angel (for situations where you want maximum healing throughput) and Draconic Incarnation (for blitzing through easy content extremely fast with those lethal energy bursts of doom).
Fury of the Wild is excellent too and should be used in places where burst DPS trumps sustained DPS. Fury is a late-developing destiny - it doesn't do much until you have Fury Eternal, but stick with it.

Common Twists of Fate:
Brace for Impact
Renewal (for raid healing and EE healing when not in Exalted Angel, remember it cannot be used on yourself but it is still excellent)
Momentum Swing
Sense Weakness

Obviously change these as required. In non-EE content the Draconic Incarnation point-blank AoE damage spell is obscenely powerful and you won't need Renew.


Heroic AP suggestions:
Although you are a 'Warpriest' build at heart, you will spend more in the Radiant Servant tree. You will want all of the top tier RS abilities.
Kensai tree offers Haste Boost 3. Remember it.
Take the good stuff from early in the Warpriest tree but don't invest massively into it. Remember that pumping up your Devotion (by spending more on the RS tree) will pay off by allowing you to spend less time actively healing when in combat and this improves your damage output more than the abilities deep in Warpriest do.


Gear setup:

Looking for suggestions here.

[SirValentine]

Although you are a 'Warpriest' build at heart, you will spend more in the Radiant Servant tree. You will want all of the top tier RS abilities.
<snip>
Take the good stuff from early in the Warpriest tree but don't invest massively into it. Remember that pumping up your Devotion (by spending more on the RS tree) will pay off by allowing you to spend less time actively healing when in combat and this improves your damage output more than the abilities deep in Warpriest do.


I haven't played a melee divine in quite a while, but this confirms what I've seen/read/felt: the Warpriest tree is a failure, since it's target audience is better off NOT using it.

Thanks for the build, BTW.

[korsat]

I haven't played a melee divine in quite a while, but this confirms what I've seen/read/felt: the Warpriest tree is a failure, since it's target audience is better off NOT using it.

Thanks for the build, BTW.

the fact is that RS aura is too good for melee clerics, together with the healing bonuses if you want to be a decent healer. so simply it cannot be dropped.
warpriest isn't bad at all! you just have to spend 10-15 points in the tree, not more. take the dr 5/-, divine might, 10prr and inflame. other things do not worth.

btw which are your saves with 2 paladin levels? without investing in wisdom how many sp do you have at cap?

courious because on 2 monk/1 fighter version with ocean4 saves can be higher than 50 when it's needed.

also maybe you can find better feats in place of thf line, maybe other metas

[serthcore]

I'm actually playing this build with a few different things (different feats and stats).
Im on the same boat on the warpriest tree; grab just hp, divine might, prr and inflame. Healing aura is much better than higher tiers of warpriest.
About the lvl 26 and 28 feats i have perfect thf and perfect twf (it gives 5% doublestrike).
And a minor thing, you may want to go for medium armor, the extra dodge bonus you can fit (8 in dragon armor) seems more useful than the extra PRR a heavy armor provides, imo.

About the build, is one of my favourites. Excelent defenses with excelent healing, and the dps is decent enough.

[bucyrus]

Hey Numot, I have been playing the 17Cl/2Pa/1Fi build on Khyber as well and have been having some fun with it. Currently at L25 holding while i max out Fury to qualify for feats

As for L26/L28 Feats I was planning the Perfect THF and Perfect TWF for the doublestrike. L27 is a toss up between Blinding Speed and More PRR

I have been respecing the enhancements as a I play - Currently I have have been going deeper into the WP line up to Ameliorating Strike for the debuff and free heals on a 15s timer which is working well. I am also using the Paladin Divine Might enhancement over the Cleric line to use the regening turns where possible.

[sirgog]

Hey Numot, I have been playing the 17Cl/2Pa/1Fi build on Khyber as well and have been having some fun with it. Currently at L25 holding while i max out Fury to qualify for feats

As for L26/L28 Feats I was planning the Perfect THF and Perfect TWF for the doublestrike. L27 is a toss up between Blinding Speed and More PRR

I have been respecing the enhancements as a I play - Currently I have have been going deeper into the WP line up to Ameliorating Strike for the debuff and free heals on a 15s timer which is working well. I am also using the Paladin Divine Might enhancement over the Cleric line to use the regening turns where possible.

How much does Ameliorating heal for in practice? Is it a Haste radius or something different? And how long after you hit the 'Smite' button does the heal actually land on players?

[Rusty_Can]

My ungeared WF cleric was rushing to 20 in order to TR, so I didn't run any extensive testing, but I played with Ameliorating Strike a bit.


How much does Ameliorating heal for in practice?

The following seems about right:


1d2 per character level (Still based on total level in all classes, and affected by Spell Power).

At lvl 20ish, I was getting 30-40 hp, before spellpower; metamagic feats don't seem to apply.


Is it a Haste radius or something different?

I'm not sure, but it seemed to me pretty much the same area you would expect to hit with Radiant Burst.


And how long after you hit the 'Smite' button does the heal actually land on players?

Pretty much immediate. However, you must actually hit your target; in my experience (I might be wrong here thou), it doesn't go off on grazing hits.

Other things worth noting:
- it's a smite (think paladin): it seems to go off also on off-hand attacks.
- the animation is buggy: if you hit it while running, the character stops; same thing used to happen with a few bardic songs; hopefully it will be fixed soon;
- as i said, my character was ungeared; I'm assuming Healing Lore applies;
- according to Feather, it's based on character level, not class.

[voodoogroves]

I haven't played a melee divine in quite a while, but this confirms what I've seen/read/felt: the Warpriest tree is a failure, since it's target audience is better off NOT using it.

Only on a cleric ;-)

FVS don't suffer from that "other good options" problem.

[axel15810]

Really tempted to try this build instead of my normal 17 cleric/ 2 fighter / 1 wiz. This build has much better survivability but what hurts is you don't get Kensei +3 to tactics and you lose 2 feats as oppossed to the fighter/wiz splash. So stunning blow is tough to pull off which really hurts your DPS alot of the time...still though having that survivability looks awesome....I may have to roll up an alt sometime :D

[axel15810]

I haven't played a melee divine in quite a while, but this confirms what I've seen/read/felt: the Warpriest tree is a failure, since it's target audience is better off NOT using it.

Thanks for the build, BTW.

I sorta agree...although the tree is great for splashing and a T5 warpriest may not be optimal but it certainly is viable. And a warpriest certainly serves well as a 2nd healer in pretty much any situation and bring some buffs that other divines don't. It could use a little more buffing though...possibly add to the party buffs and perma abilities.

[Vellrad]

Really tempted to try this build instead of my normal 17 cleric/ 2 fighter / 1 wiz. This build has much better survivability but what hurts is you don't get Kensei +3 to tactics and you lose 2 feats as oppossed to the fighter/wiz splash. So stunning blow is tough to pull off which really hurts your DPS alot of the time...still though having that survivability looks awesome....I may have to roll up an alt sometime :D

I got this, its very fun to play.
I don't use any tactical feats (I might try to trip, I think I'd have a medicore succes rate on low str mobs, but I don't see reason to).

I really miss 40spellpower for 1 AP from pre U19 times.

Unfortunately, this build got quite low saves.

[axel15810]

I got this, its very fun to play.
I don't use any tactical feats (I might try to trip, I think I'd have a medicore succes rate on low str mobs, but I don't see reason to).

I really miss 40spellpower for 1 AP from pre U19 times.

Unfortunately, this build got quite low saves.

I miss the 40spellpower as well...I'm still sticking with 1 wiz though because if you're going for a melee cleric and plan to splash 2 fighter levels there's no reason in my opinion to take an 18th cleric level. I think the extra wizard feat and the ability to use blur wands, ect still makes the wiz level better than the 18th cleric level.

And yeah...the saves are awful. But if you're human it's not so bad. You can make up for the bad saves by having a strong aura and strong healing amp so the aura keeps you up if cometfalled or stunned.

Unfortunately I went Horc this life after going human the previous life...the extra damage is nice, as is the +20% damage to helpless mobs but I miss the human healing amp so bad so I'm really feeling the lack of saves this time around.

I think overall the 2 pally splash is better for EE and raids.
I think overall the 17 cleric/ 2 pally / 1 figher build is better on EE content and raids because of the saves.

[Rusty_Can]

I think the extra wizard feat and the ability to use blur wands, ect still makes the wiz level better than the 18th cleric level.


Well, Warpriest 4th Core Abilitiy is permanent Blur and Blur as a lvl 2 spell in your spellbook, so no need to whip wands anymore.

Warpriest 5th Core Ability, which requires 18 class levels and 30 points in the tree, is Haste spell.

[axel15810]

Well, Warpriest 4th Core Abilitiy is permanent Blur and Blur as a lvl 2 spell in your spellbook, so no need to whip wands anymore.

Warpriest 5th Core Ability, which requires 18 class levels and 30 points in the tree, is Haste spell.

Good point, I personally don't dip that far into the warpriest tree to get those abilities though. And I actually like not being blurred often times so I can regen SP better from the Torc so I personally find that having the option is nice.

[bucyrus]

How much does Ameliorating heal for in practice? Is it a Haste radius or something different? And how long after you hit the 'Smite' button does the heal actually land on players?

Strike hits me for 230-250 but i have healing amp. As said before looks instantaneous on strike and has a haste aura radius

[Vellrad]

I miss the 40spellpower as well...I'm still sticking with 1 wiz though because if you're going for a melee cleric and plan to splash 2 fighter levels there's no reason in my opinion to take an 18th cleric level. I think the extra wizard feat and the ability to use blur wands, ect still makes the wiz level better than the 18th cleric level.

And yeah...the saves are awful. But if you're human it's not so bad. You can make up for the bad saves by having a strong aura and strong healing amp so the aura keeps you up if cometfalled or stunned.

Unfortunately I went Horc this life after going human the previous life...the extra damage is nice, as is the +20% damage to helpless mobs but I miss the human healing amp so bad so I'm really feeling the lack of saves this time around.

I think overall the 2 pally splash is better for EE and raids.
I think overall the 17 cleric/ 2 pally / 1 figher build is better on EE content and raids because of the saves.

Im dwarf only :P
Anyway, today I'd choose monk splash over a wizard.


Well, Warpriest 4th Core Abilitiy is permanent Blur and Blur as a lvl 2 spell in your spellbook, so no need to whip wands anymore.

Meh, I'd save point for something better.


Warpriest 5th Core Ability, which requires 18 class levels and 30 points in the tree, is Haste spell.
I'd prefer to take 2 ftr and 1 monk or wiz level, to take extra feat, to fit perma haste later on.

[guardianx2009]

How much does Ameliorating heal for in practice? Is it a Haste radius or something different? And how long after you hit the 'Smite' button does the heal actually land on players?

Having solo'd EE servants on my cleric w/warpriest, I can say this:
- I am TWF. Ameliorating strike heals for about 200-400 on average thanks to double proc. If you are THF, expect 100-200. The lesser number being more frequent.
- When you are already swinging, it is instant. Unlike burst, you do not have to interrupt your melee.




Good point, I personally don't dip that far into the warpriest tree to get those abilities though. And I actually like not being blurred often times so I can regen SP better from the Torc so I personally find that having the option is nice.

For what it's worth: at the end fight in EE servants, I torc'ed up the 5-6 drow archers just fine with perma-blur. In fact it helped reduce the incoming damage to a manageable so I can heal with cocoon while torc'ing.

[wtorchia]

I have posted in several other threads about my 2nd life for my cleric with a similar build. I went Half orc to make the most out of THF and Power attack. I feel that the build is the BEST solo setup there is. You have a TON of free healing, great saves, and with the right gear/EDs you have great DPS.

I forget my stats now, but I maxed St, so 20 starting, put some in Int for skills with a +3 tome, and had an OK wis/char. Dex was left at the base.

Here is what I put in another thread for gear:

Metas:
Maximise
Empower heal

Melee:
THF
ITHF
GTHF
PA
Cleave
Greater Cleave
IC : Slashing
Overwhelming crit

DPS gear:
Head: EH black dragon helm (8 con)
Goggles: GS Con op SP item
Bracers: 20% HA, +4 saves (can't remember name)
Ring 1: Ring of the stalker( 200 SP, some stat gem)
Ring 2: 106 pos ring
belt: GS smoke HP item
Neck : EE Jorga (stat gems)
Gloves: Purple dragon
trinket: Melee focus
Boots: Epic boots of corrosion
Armor : Black (epic) or red dragon (Corm) full plate
Wep: Cleaver, Hewer of Suffering (tier 3)


I will say this again. I LOVED this build. It is just an absolute HOUSE. I am soooooooooooo tempted to go back. I just want to try out a full caster for a while after YEARS as a melee cleric. I really feel like this is THE cleric build now. You get the most our of everything that cleric can bring. You can heal, fight, and cast (some) . What more could you ask for? :)

[Rusty_Can]

Good point, I personally don't dip that far into the warpriest tree to get those abilities though. And I actually like not being blurred often times so I can regen SP better from the Torc so I personally find that having the option is nice.

If I'm not mistaken, it's a toggle; thus, it can be switched off.



Meh, I'd save point for something better.


I was just pointing out another option, since the wizard splash was also intended to gain access to wands ....

[Vellrad]

If I'm not mistaken, it's a toggle; thus, it can be switched off.



Its permanent.

[sirgog]

Really tempted to try this build instead of my normal 17 cleric/ 2 fighter / 1 wiz. This build has much better survivability but what hurts is you don't get Kensei +3 to tactics and you lose 2 feats as oppossed to the fighter/wiz splash. So stunning blow is tough to pull off which really hurts your DPS alot of the time...still though having that survivability looks awesome....I may have to roll up an alt sometime :D

My attitude here is to let the 'real melees' do the stunning. I'm not going to be the best at everything and landing stuns requires a lot of build focus that would hurt the core goals of this build.


Strike hits me for 230-250 but i have healing amp. As said before looks instantaneous on strike and has a haste aura radius

If it is instantaneous on hitting the button and heals for that much I will definitely take it. I was expecting a much slower response (~300ms for the game to recognise that you've hit the 'Smite' button, ~700ms to carry out the Smite, then ~200ms to actually proc the heal). A free quickened MCLW is nothing to sneeze at, however.

[sirgog]

Its permanent.

This is indeed a pain with the Blur effect.

On a build that relied upon SP as the only healing resource, I would not take this enhancement for the aforementioned Torc/ConcOpp dissynergy. However, on a build that has Aura I'm much less likely to Torc up anyway (not that Torc is all that crash hot with the much larger incoming damage numbers nowadays; I still use it but it is no longer the best item in the game like it was for a long time).

[Varashad]

I'm trying to do this build as a 34 pt build. Can you go into more detail on why you don't advise it with less than a 36 pt build? You don't advise critical past lives, and I can't imagine the difference between 14/15 base and 16 base charisma being overly significant.

[firemedium_jt]

Why not CLR17/WIZ1 for Melee Cleric?

Gives you all the melee you need for heroic content...

then add FTR2 for more feats. If you are a melee build why wait for those feats till lvl 27. You get the heavy armor. You lose the saves true, but you don't need the Charisma then and can dump it. There is so much gear readily availble at all levels now for saves. The devs are just trying to get newbies through heroic quickly to buy new epic content. I know saves are important for EE, but is Pal2 and upping CHR worth it?

With FTR2 you can fit in Empower and maybe Heighten or Enlarge too.

I agree that the light power is a little on the lame side from EDs for Divine Punishment, but do I understand right that you are using it on mobs? I just use it for red and orange names. SLAs are truely helpful now even for a melee build and especially for my Generalist build.

[bucyrus]

Why not CLR17/WIZ1 for Melee Cleric?

Gives you all the melee you need for heroic content...

then add FTR2 for more feats. If you are a melee build why wait for those feats till lvl 27. You get the heavy armor. You lose the saves true, but you don't need the Charisma then and can dump it. There is so much gear readily availble at all levels now for saves. The devs are just trying to get newbies through heroic quickly to buy new epic content. I know saves are important for EE, but is Pal2 and upping CHR worth it?


Paladin is well worth it because the synergy between CHA, Saves, Divine Might and significant increase in the number of turns available. The additional turns for burst plus Amel Strike is the difference between getting to a shrine with SP to spare versus drinking a pot. Of course having a good group helps too

[axel15810]

Why not CLR17/WIZ1 for Melee Cleric?

Gives you all the melee you need for heroic content...

You lose the saves true, but you don't need the Charisma then and can dump it.


Now that Divine Might is 2 minutes long, has a super fast cast time and uses your CHA modifier, you don't want to ever dump CHA anymore on a melee cleric build since every rank of CHA is pretty much the same as every rank of STR. You're better off giving yourself a few ranks of CHA than spending 6 build points on that last rank of STR. And that's not even mentioning that every rank of CHA gives you an additional turn and improves your turning ability for insta killing undead.

But I am torn between the 2 fighter/ 1 wiz and the 2 pally / 1 fighter myself. I guess it all comes down to do you want more feats or better saves?

[sirgog]

I'm trying to do this build as a 34 pt build. Can you go into more detail on why you don't advise it with less than a 36 pt build? You don't advise critical past lives, and I can't imagine the difference between 14/15 base and 16 base charisma being overly significant.

Should be fine as 34 (although the loss of Paladin lives will hurt).





But I am torn between the 2 fighter/ 1 wiz and the 2 pally / 1 fighter myself. I guess it all comes down to do you want more feats or better saves?

I made the mistake of trying this as Clr17/Ftr1/Mnk2 earlier; the saves were abysmal and I kept spending quality time getting to really know the ground every time a mob Cometfalled.

Saves and PRR are so critical in high level play now that I respecced into the heavy armor, no evasion Pal2/Ftr1 splash.

[Vellrad]

Now that Divine Might is 2 minutes long, has a super fast cast time and uses your CHA modifier, you don't want to ever dump CHA anymore on a melee cleric build since every rank of CHA is pretty much the same as every rank of STR. You're better off giving yourself a few ranks of CHA than spending 6 build points on that last rank of STR. And that's not even mentioning that every rank of CHA gives you an additional turn and improves your turning ability for insta killing undead.

But I am torn between the 2 fighter/ 1 wiz and the 2 pally / 1 fighter myself. I guess it all comes down to do you want more feats or better saves?

I like having cha as 2nd stat (after str) but its not true that cha gives the same as str.
Each point of charisma past 10 gives 0,5 str bonus, so its still better to focus mostly on str.
Also, whatever you do, forget about turning at higher difficulties/levels.

[firemedium_jt]

I like having cha as 2nd stat (after str) but its not true that cha gives the same as str.
Each point of charisma past 10 gives 0,5 str bonus, so its still better to focus mostly on str.
Also, whatever you do, forget about turning at higher difficulties/levels.

It does not stack with insightful STR. If you have a Insightful STR +2 item that is typical, so only the CHR after 12 stacks. Also DM costs 15sp. Yeah saves are important for EE.

Every melee feat is nice percentage increase in damage.

But if you are dead from lack of saves then what is the point. You could just hang back and DOT and SLA and heal if things get too hot. After all that is what SP is for. And use the extra melee feats on mobs to save sp, but I have not run much lvl25+ content yet, and just hang back in EE when necessary, however, if there are tons of healers for the group I will melee even in EE if we are short melee and cast more if we are short there.

IMHO 6 build points on STR for 2 points on a CLR17 is a waste.

I would also ask with cheap SLAs now should you be dumping Wisdom even on a melee build?
I guess it depends on your spell book and SLAs and enhancement selection.

[sirgog]

It does not stack with insightful STR. If you have a Insightful STR +2 item that is typical, so only the CHR after 12 stacks. Also DM costs 15sp. Yeah saves are important for EE.

Every melee feat is nice percentage increase in damage.

But if you are dead from lack of saves then what is the point. You could just hang back and DOT and SLA and heal if things get too hot. After all that is what SP is for. And use the extra melee feats on mobs to save sp, but I have not run much lvl25+ content yet, and just hang back in EE when necessary, however, if there are tons of healers for the group I will melee even in EE if we are short melee and cast more if we are short there.

IMHO 6 build points on STR for 2 points on a CLR17 is a waste.

I would also ask with cheap SLAs now should you be dumping Wisdom even on a melee build?
I guess it depends on your spell book and SLAs and enhancement selection.

I'm now of the opinion that the ONLY character that should start with 18 in Str is a character using Str-based tactics. Otherwise it is not worth it.

Noone is going to wear an Insightful Str item on a character with access to Divine Might, and as Insightful stats are still hard to slot, you can just use another one that helps you more. Insightful Con is best, but Cha and Dex do something for you too.


As for DOTs - I do not use them much now. The damage per mana isn't so hot - spending 50 SP for 2000-3000 damage (at a three-stack without Radiance equipment) or maybe 4000 damage (with a Radiance item equipped) - 3000 damage was a lot a while ago, it isn't now. If it's that dangerous to be in close, I'll just let the durable melees kill the target and go healbot mode for a second.

I do DOT in EH against bosses and also to pull aggro of specific monsters when it is useful (which is why Nimbus of Light is by far my most often cast damage spell now - 4SP, aggros any mob that hasn't seen the party yet).

[sirgog]

Now that Divine Might is 2 minutes long, has a super fast cast time and uses your CHA modifier, you don't want to ever dump CHA anymore on a melee cleric build since every rank of CHA is pretty much the same as every rank of STR. You're better off giving yourself a few ranks of CHA than spending 6 build points on that last rank of STR. And that's not even mentioning that every rank of CHA gives you an additional turn and improves your turning ability for insta killing undead.


Ignore turning. Turns are a resource used for healing and for Divine Might, nothing else.

Turning is fun to do while levelling and that is it.

[axel15810]

I like having cha as 2nd stat (after str) but its not true that cha gives the same as str.
Each point of charisma past 10 gives 0,5 str bonus, so its still better to focus mostly on str.
Also, whatever you do, forget about turning at higher difficulties/levels.

Please explain? Maybe I'm missing something because from what I understand is the recent change to Divine Might causes it to add your CHA modifier directly to your STR as an insight bonus.

[axel15810]

Ignore turning. Turns are a resource used for healing and for Divine Might, nothing else.

Turning is fun to do while levelling and that is it.

Divine Might now uses spell points, not turns for clerics.

And I generally agree about turning undead and don't use it myself, although it is fun to play around with and if you run mainly EH it can still be useful at endgame.

[wtorchia]

Please explain? Maybe I'm missing something because from what I understand is the recent change to Divine Might causes it to add your CHA modifier directly to your STR as an insight bonus.


You get your CH bonus as a insightful ST bonus. So +2 CH gives you +1 insightful st. I can see not taking ST to max and putting it into CH. 6 build points to max ST gives you more in CH, WS or some other helpful stat.

[Vellrad]

Please explain? Maybe I'm missing something because from what I understand is the recent change to Divine Might causes it to add your CHA modifier directly to your STR as an insight bonus.

2 points of cha = 1 point of str.

Instead of loading everything possible into cha, or splitting even into cha and str, its better to focus on str.

For example, if you got choice to increase str or cha by 2 points via enchancement, item or something, its better to take direct str improvement instead of cha to have better DM.

But of course, I don't have a paladin splash, so I'm speaking from perspective of someone who is not adding cha to saves.

[wtorchia]

For those going TWF, is the cleave line with overwhelming crit worth it? I last played this build as a THF, and I am mid TR to TWF and have not taken the cleave line yet.

As a follow up has anyone tried 2 x Celestia, Brightest Star of Day or Nightmare, the Fallen Moon? I have them already 2 x Celectia and 1 x Nightmare, I just have not upgraded them yet.

[firemedium_jt]

2 points of cha = 1 point of str.

Instead of loading everything possible into cha, or splitting even into cha and str, its better to focus on str.

For example, if you got choice to increase str or cha by 2 points via enchancement, item or something, its better to take direct str improvement instead of cha to have better DM.

But of course, I don't have a paladin splash, so I'm speaking from perspective of someone who is not adding cha to saves.

+1

4 points of CHR = 2 pts of STR = +1 to hit and damage.

I can see upping STR to 16 and CHR to 14, but to spend 2 build pts on CHR for this is not worth it. The PAL2 for saves is more important than this, but investing with more than one build pt seems a waste. Heck you might want to take Resilience instead if you plan to just melee and take another melee feat with FTR2. On my Generalists CLR17/WIZ1/FTR2 Human did not dump Wisdom and took Heighten to help it. It might not have been as useful before the new enhancements, but now I am seeing returns on this with cheap SLAs.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Resilience

Not sure if this feat even stacks with everything else or not???

Resilience affects cooldowns for spells. But if all you do is melee and use Aura and heal yourself with spells it might work. Healing the others in the party might be tough with 3x cooldowns on your spells.

I hope you are using Divine Favor all the time then because it give +3 for hit and damage for 10 sp.

[sirgog]

For those going TWF, is the cleave line with overwhelming crit worth it? I last played this build as a THF, and I am mid TR to TWF and have not taken the cleave line yet.

As a follow up has anyone tried 2 x Celestia, Brightest Star of Day or Nightmare, the Fallen Moon? I have them already 2 x Celectia and 1 x Nightmare, I just have not upgraded them yet.

TWF would be a totally different build altogether. Not saying it can't work (or that other major variations like a base FVS build can't work), but I'd rather this thread be about things reasonably close to the original build.

[JollySwagMan]

If Human, make sure to try out Action Surge with Divine Might. Since DM 'locks in' the Charisma modifier used to determine Strength bonus, a boost has to be hit first (alas) to get the boosted Cha.

Sinking 3 points each into Action Surge Cha and Str, this is potentially potentially +5 to Str* for 17 or 18 seconds, dwindling down to +2 for the rest of DM.

*on top of whatever was bonuses are going on for the build. This potential +5 boils down to starting the buff with an odd Cha score (+3 Cha = +2 Str) + 3 Str = 5 Str).

However at higher levels might not be worth the opportunity loss (roughly 2 attacks if THF/SHB, possibly 3-5 if TWF/Monk)

[wtorchia]

TWF would be a totally different build altogether. Not saying it can't work (or that other major variations like a base FVS build can't work), but I'd rather this thread be about things reasonably close to the original build.

Fair enough. To add some thing from my last life with this build. I found that going half orc for the PA, THF, and ST lines added a lot. Add on a high ST boost from LD and I was sitting at a static 38+ ST. I also found my self just not bothering to cast spells at all. I would buff and the just solo blitz the quest. Between aura, turns and a few con op proc I never really needed to shrine in most quests. I was doing WAY more damage with an upgraded cleaver then my spells could match.

Really this build plays like a paladin that can raid heal. The only reason I switched out was to try out a pure caster. I am lvl 18 now and looking to LR back into it. It just has sooooooooooooooo much going for it.

A note on gear. I ran with 20% / 30% healing amp. This was not enough at times. That is the other reason I TRd. I wanted to try the build with more HA from human.

[sirgog]

A note on gear. I ran with 20% / 30% healing amp. This was not enough at times. That is the other reason I TRd. I wanted to try the build with more HA from human.

Yeah racial healing amp and past life healing amp makes a big difference. Healing amp has escalating returns - the more of it you already have, the larger bonus each individual extra source of amp gives you.

Reducing the amount of time you need to spend actively casting healing spells on yourself increases your contribution to melee DPS, possibly more than the half-orc enhancements would have (although that is really hard to quantify).

[HernandoCortez]

Yeah racial healing amp and past life healing amp makes a big difference. Healing amp has escalating returns - the more of it you already have, the larger bonus each individual extra source of amp gives you.

Reducing the amount of time you need to spend actively casting healing spells on yourself increases your contribution to melee DPS, possibly more than the half-orc enhancements would have (although that is really hard to quantify).

Very interested in this build. I'm about to LR+20 my HOrc Barbarian, into a more self-sufficient build. Anyone think it would work with this HOrc 32 pt?

[wtorchia]

Yeah racial healing amp and past life healing amp makes a big difference. Healing amp has escalating returns - the more of it you already have, the larger bonus each individual extra source of amp gives you.

Reducing the amount of time you need to spend actively casting healing spells on yourself increases your contribution to melee DPS, possibly more than the half-orc enhancements would have (although that is really hard to quantify).


Give me a while and I will be able to find out for you. :D Right now I am lvl 18 pure cleric. I am going to use a LR +1 after I hit 19 and go for a 17/2/1 build again. I will be able to give you hard numbers once I hit 25. I do not have the paladin past life feats. I just can not bring my self to grind them out right now. I will at some point probably though.

Here are some things I did try with the last life.

gear options:

PDK gloves + 116 healing power ring VS Gauntlets of Immortality (tier 2) : The idea here was to try out a higher crit rate on a stronger heal against 30% more healing amp. I found it to basically be a wash the overall healing, but you could easily get into trouble. If I could find a better source of 30% healing amp I would keep the Gauntlets of Immortality. They help a ton with your aura and crits. I do not have a TOD ring so my 20% amp came from my bracers.

Cleaver VS lots of other non SoS weps : For THF I found Cleaver to just be top general DPS. You do not break DR, but in order to do so you loose your set bonus. E Antique axe is fine for a DR breaker if you need it. Just remember you loose hits, damage and PRR when you break the set. The other big thing is there are options in the LD ED for extra axe damage.

E Black dragon VS Corm Red : Another set up that I switched between a lot. I settled on the red over black for a few reasons.
1) Getting toughness, fort , seeker and +6 protection in one armor is NICE.
2) Not nearly as important. I liked the way red looked more. :P


ED/Twists:

LD was the best consistent DPS ED for me. My twists where usually : Piercing Clarity, Endless Turning, and Endless faith. You could easily drop Piercing Clarity and for something else and use the black dragon armor over it. If there was enough destiny points I would upgraded to 4/3/1 to take Purity of essence over Endless faith

[wtorchia]

Very interested in this build. I'm about to LR+20 my HOrc Barbarian, into a more self-sufficient build. Anyone think it would work with this HOrc 32 pt?

I did it as a HO 34 pt build with no problems. You have to cut int or dex to do it. You could also not max ST like I did and be just fine. The big thing is GEAR. If you have all of the top end THF DPS gear you will be fine.

[axel15810]

Yeah racial healing amp and past life healing amp makes a big difference. Healing amp has escalating returns - the more of it you already have, the larger bonus each individual extra source of amp gives you.

Reducing the amount of time you need to spend actively casting healing spells on yourself increases your contribution to melee DPS, possibly more than the half-orc enhancements would have (although that is really hard to quantify).

I'm finding this is the case for me. I was human last life and horc this life with a very similar build to the one posted here. The extra DPS from horc is nice but man losing that 30% healing amp, not to mention the feat, is killer for a cleric. I'm on lvl 20 right now in FoTW with around 700 HP and bursts just don't quite do the trick for selfhealing in heavy damage situations...I run around with 30% and 20% amp on but bursts still only fill up around 1/3 of my healthbar. My aura ticks around for around 33 I believe.

I'm going to play around with my toon for a few weeks more before I TR but it looks like to me that the extra DPS from Horc isn't worth it. I'm dying more and I think I'm losing more DPS than I'm gaining in the harder situations because I can't stay in and take hits without actively healing myself.

I'll probably use my +20 heart to LR into a paladin to get the 5% healing past life then TR into a human again.

[wtorchia]

I'm finding this is the case for me. I was human last life and horc this life with a very similar build to the one posted here. The extra DPS from horc is nice but man losing that 30% healing amp, not to mention the feat, is killer for a cleric. I'm on lvl 20 right now in FoTW with around 700 HP and bursts just don't quite do the trick for selfhealing in heavy damage situations...I run around with 30% and 20% amp on but bursts still only fill up around 1/3 of my healthbar. My aura ticks around for around 33 I believe.

I'm going to play around with my toon for a few weeks more before I TR but it looks like to me that the extra DPS from Horc isn't worth it. I'm dying more and I think I'm losing more DPS than I'm gaining in the harder situations because I can't stay in and take hits without actively healing myself.

I'll probably use my +20 heart to LR into a paladin to get the 5% healing past life then TR into a human again.

33 was about what I was seeing from my aura as well with 20%/30% HA. How are you liking FoTW over LD?

[axel15810]

33 was about what I was seeing from my aura as well with 20%/30% HA. How are you liking FoTW over LD?

I personally like it much more than LD because it's easier to play and it's not as clicky intensive. To me that's really important on my cleric since I'm already multitasking like crazy. And I love the extra HP.

[HernandoCortez]

I did it as a HO 34 pt build with no problems. You have to cut int or dex to do it. You could also not max ST like I did and be just fine. The big thing is GEAR. If you have all of the top end THF DPS gear you will be fine.

Thanks. But my barbarian is first life, didn't want to go through the hassle of TRing him. Would it work for 32 pts?

[Arkadios]

Thanks. But my barbarian is first life, didn't want to go through the hassle of TRing him. Would it work for 32 pts?

If you're a first life barbarian you could just TR into this. Otherwise Starting stats could be:

16
8
16
10
10
14

Or something similar.

[Melfsmite]

Bookmarked.

I'll be TRing my solo character for life #3 (Cleric and Fighter past lives) and was looking for a solid DPS healer build.

This looks worth the try.

I'll be doing the human version and copying the initial post build.

[painkiller3]

I ran a 18/2 paladin before update 19 and I think this is the next logical step (for me)...not sure if I agree with 10 wis and INT, but I really like the idea...had saves in the high 50s/low 60s and can do the same with this I imagine

[wtorchia]

Here is the update I promised. I went TWF or THF to try it out. The only diff in my build is the TWF feats over the THF ones and Bastard sword prof over quicken. I am currently lvl 21.

Gear:
head/gloves/armor: PDk
Rings: Signet of the Shining Sun , Seal of House Szind
Neck : Symbol of the Shining Sun
goggles: Con op SP
Belt : Smoke HP
Boot: Epic Boots of Corrosion
Cloak: Epic Envenomed Cloak
Wrist: Epic Scorched Bracers
Trinket: Holy symbol
Weapons: Dual Oathblade

Enhancements that matter:
Human: 30% healing amp, human attack boost
Cleric: RS aura, Ameliorating Strike.

With the 10% healing amp ship buff I am healed for 45 HP every tick in FOT. That is significantly higher then my past life. I have not even hit a level where I can use my 110 healing power ring and 20% bracers. So far I can hit a buffed st of 53. I am seeing crits in the 160-170 range with oathblade. While it is not the best DPS, it is OK for the level. Once I hit 23 I have 2 x Celstia, and 1 x Nightmare waiting for me. I still need to upgrade them, but my DPS should just when I get there. If it does not work out, I plan to LR in to the THF version of this build.

[firemedium_jt]

You can put the Villager Bracers on for Wisdom and Greater Parry. That way you can slot a Accuracy and Deadly item in necklace.

Does the Wizardry IX stack with GS sp? U can slot Accuracy Deadly in goggles too.

[wtorchia]

You can put the Villager Bracers on for Wisdom and Greater Parry. That way you can slot a Accuracy and Deadly item in necklace.

Does the Wizardry IX stack with GS sp? U can slot Accuracy Deadly in goggles too.

Already did that and forgot. I am running a dead/acuracy 5 in the neck slot. The wiz sp and gs sp do stack though. I have a pair of 20% healing amp / greater parry bracers waiting for me when I hit 24. I will using the CITW weps by then as well. Oathblade is ok dps till 23

[silinteresting]

first off nice build, im planing something similar but going twf instead.

i do have a question tho, does the enhancements from radiant servent stack
with Knight of the Chalice enhancements. im thinking of extra turning
and improved turning ?, im guessing the extra turns do.
also does the divine light work with all the turning?

thankyou for indulging my curiosity

you friend sil :)

[wtorchia]

first off nice build, im planing something similar but going twf instead.

i do have a question tho, does the enhancements from radiant servent stack
with Knight of the Chalice enhancements. im thinking of extra turning
and improved turning ?, im guessing the extra turns do.
also does the divine light work with all the turning?

thankyou for indulging my curiosity

you friend sil :)

I am running TWF right now. Last life was a THF half orc with the same class split.

My AP is split as follows:

Human : 17 for tier 3 healing amp, human atack boost, Action Surge (3 str, 3 chr, 2 con)
RS: 32 for aura and other stuff
DD: 9 for +1 all saves, 90 SP
WP: 22 for Ameliorating Strike, perma blur, in flames

I did not really have room for anything else. I was initial cutting a little from DD to take some of the Kensi stuff, but I get more from DD. I did play with the pal/cleric things stacking and they do for the extra turns. I have 16 turns right now and I have yet to run out so it was not worth it to me. If i need more turns I will up my chr, or twist in Endless Turning from US. I have not played with Divine Light. I did not take the paladin level till later, so I was out of the undead content by then.

[axel15810]

I am running TWF right now. Last life was a THF half orc with the same class split.

My AP is split as follows:

Human : 17 for tier 3 healing amp, human atack boost, Action Surge (3 str, 3 chr, 2 con)
RS: 32 for aura and other stuff
DD: 9 for +1 all saves, 90 SP
WP: 22 for Ameliorating Strike, perma blur, in flames

I did not really have room for anything else. I was initial cutting a little from DD to take some of the Kensi stuff, but I get more from DD. I did play with the pal/cleric things stacking and they do for the extra turns. I have 16 turns right now and I have yet to run out so it was not worth it to me. If i need more turns I will up my chr, or twist in Endless Turning from US. I have not played with Divine Light. I did not take the paladin level till later, so I was out of the undead content by then.

You've gotta at least fit in Kensei Haste boost, that's one of the best perks of splashing fighter. 4 action points for a stacking +30% attack speed clicky is a big DPS bump.

[silinteresting]

I am running TWF right now. Last life was a THF half orc with the same class split.

My AP is split as follows:

Human : 17 for tier 3 healing amp, human atack boost, Action Surge (3 str, 3 chr, 2 con)
RS: 32 for aura and other stuff
DD: 9 for +1 all saves, 90 SP
WP: 22 for Ameliorating Strike, perma blur, in flames

I did not really have room for anything else. I was initial cutting a little from DD to take some of the Kensi stuff, but I get more from DD. I did play with the pal/cleric things stacking and they do for the extra turns. I have 16 turns right now and I have yet to run out so it was not worth it to me. If i need more turns I will up my chr, or twist in Endless Turning from US. I have not played with Divine Light. I did not take the paladin level till later, so I was out of the undead content by then.

ty for reply
your friend sil :)

[wtorchia]

You've gotta at least fit in Kensei Haste boost, that's one of the best perks of splashing fighter. 4 action points for a stacking +30% attack speed clicky is a big DPS bump.

The only place I can pull points from is the DD enhancements. I would loose 9 spell power and +2 all saves to do that. The haste boost is nice, but it is a temp boost that only last 2 min tops. The other stuff from DD lasts the entire time. The 9 spell power is enough to bump me from a healing tick of 43 to 45 on my RS aura. The haste boost is nice. If I really needed it I would run in ED or twist it in.

[sirgog]

The only place I can pull points from is the DD enhancements. I would loose 9 spell power and +2 all saves to do that. The haste boost is nice, but it is a temp boost that only last 2 min tops. The other stuff from DD lasts the entire time. The 9 spell power is enough to bump me from a healing tick of 43 to 45 on my RS aura. The haste boost is nice. If I really needed it I would run in ED or twist it in.

Twisted Brace for Impact + Fighter Haste Boost is better than Twisted LD Haste Boost + your setup.

Haste boost is incredible because burst damage is what matters in the game now, much more than sustained damage. Blue dragon in Tor is dead but the Giant isn't? Pop Haste boost right now, and get it good and dead. Etc etc.

[wtorchia]

Twisted Brace for Impact + Fighter Haste Boost is better than Twisted LD Haste Boost + your setup.

Haste boost is incredible because burst damage is what matters in the game now, much more than sustained damage. Blue dragon in Tor is dead but the Giant isn't? Pop Haste boost right now, and get it good and dead. Etc etc.

I can see that. Especially with the human stat boosts. I am just trying out FOTW right now. I normally run in LD and that is my plan long term. So I will have the hast boost from there when I am done leveling FOTW. If I decide to stay in FOTW full time I will def switch my enhancements over.

[Eth]

If Human, make sure to try out Action Surge with Divine Might. Since DM 'locks in' the Charisma modifier used to determine Strength bonus, a boost has to be hit first (alas) to get the boosted Cha.

Sinking 3 points each into Action Surge Cha and Str, this is potentially potentially +5 to Str* for 17 or 18 seconds, dwindling down to +2 for the rest of DM.

*on top of whatever was bonuses are going on for the build. This potential +5 boils down to starting the buff with an odd Cha score (+3 Cha = +2 Str) + 3 Str = 5 Str).

However at higher levels might not be worth the opportunity loss (roughly 2 attacks if THF/SHB, possibly 3-5 if TWF/Monk)
Hm, I'm curious about this, have you actually tried this out or is this just theory?
I still get occasional lag when changing my charisma modifier (AKA UMD-lag).

This looks good on paper, but ingame it sounds to me like:
- Hit Action Boost
- Get mini lag

And I can see another problem with this.
Like you said - when you hit DM the game adds your current charisma modifier to str as insight bonus.
However this also means everytime you try to refresh DM *before it runs out* your charisma modifier has to be the same or higher than the last time you activated it.
If it's lower you just lose one charge and DM goes on timer.
This can be quite annoying when you try to refresh it midfight.

[wtorchia]

Hm, I'm curious about this, have you actually tried this out or is this just theory?
I still get occasional lag when changing my charisma modifier (AKA UMD-lag).

This looks good on paper, but ingame it sounds to me like:
- Hit Action Boost
- Get mini lag

And I can see another problem with this.
Like you said - when you hit DM the game adds your current charisma modifier to str as insight bonus.
However this also means everytime you try to refresh DM *before it runs out* your charisma modifier has to be the same or higher than the last time you activated it.
If it's lower you just lose one charge and DM goes on timer.
This can be quite annoying when you try to refresh it midfight.

It have tested it and it is correct. The ST bonus is set based on your CH at the time. It will stay that way until it is refreshed. Really you are talking about +3 char max. So it is +2 ST diff if you have an odd CH that is being bumped up. Between RS aura, Divine Might, Divine Power, and the group HP I am usually way more focused on other things to try to max my ST at all times though.

[axel15810]

Here is the update I promised. I went TWF or THF to try it out. The only diff in my build is the TWF feats over the THF ones and Bastard sword prof over quicken. I am currently lvl 21.

Gear:
head/gloves/armor: PDk
Rings: Signet of the Shining Sun , Seal of House Szind
Neck : Symbol of the Shining Sun
goggles: Con op SP
Belt : Smoke HP
Boot: Epic Boots of Corrosion
Cloak: Epic Envenomed Cloak
Wrist: Epic Scorched Bracers
Trinket: Holy symbol
Weapons: Dual Oathblade

Enhancements that matter:
Human: 30% healing amp, human attack boost
Cleric: RS aura, Ameliorating Strike.

With the 10% healing amp ship buff I am healed for 45 HP every tick in FOT. That is significantly higher then my past life. I have not even hit a level where I can use my 110 healing power ring and 20% bracers. So far I can hit a buffed st of 53. I am seeing crits in the 160-170 range with oathblade. While it is not the best DPS, it is OK for the level. Once I hit 23 I have 2 x Celstia, and 1 x Nightmare waiting for me. I still need to upgrade them, but my DPS should just when I get there. If it does not work out, I plan to LR in to the THF version of this build.


Here is my rough version of what I'm planning for my THF version of this build, for what it's worth -

Goggles GS Con Op / HP item
Helm Black Dragon Helm (DEX +8 or insight CON)
Armor Flawless Black Dragonplate - probably slot fortification
Necklace ??? / Torc
Bracers 10% convalesent amp
Gloves Guantlets of Immortality
Cloak Cloak of Night / GS SP cloak
Belt ????
Ring 1 ????
Ring 2 ToD ring w/ 20% amp
Boots ???? / cannith boots / madstone boots
Tinket Planar Focus: Prowess, Dex +8 or Insightful DEX +3

Weapon Cleaver, elemental damage slotted

I'll use the 4 open slots above and augment slots to fit in as many of the following as possible -

Fortification
resistance item for saves
STR item
CON item
CHA item
DEX item
Attack Speed item
Seeker

I'll see what loot gen stuff I can find, fitting all that in will be tough. I'm afraid that I won't be able to fit in seeker and attack speed, they are my lowest priorities.

It was a toss up between the PDK gloves and Immortality gloves. I decided to go with the immortality gloves because while losing 30% amp is tough, the +20 to heal skill helps some to negate it and if I went with the PDK gloves my only option for 120 devotion would likely be the trinket slot, and I think giving up 15 PRR for planar conflux would be worse. Besides the immortality gloves are optimal for outgoing healing...and I am a party healer after all. If I ever manage to get a sword of shadow shard I'll go back to the PDK gloves. Hopefully they introduce 30% amp somewhere else in the near future or convalesent drops come back.

Also for raids when I'm in healbot mode, I'll probably switch to eveningstar cleric gear for the -10% SP cost.

[Ailia]

About to TR into this as a PDK from a soul survivor, gear layout being the following:

Goggles Deadly of Accuracy with yellow
Helm Black Dragon Helm (Con +8)
Armor Flawless Black Dragonplate
Necklace Pendant of the Stormreaver / Torc
Bracers 20% convalesent of +13 heal with colorless
Gloves Purple Dragon Gauntlets
Cloak GS ConcOpp HP cloak
Belt Epic Spare Hand
Ring 1 Guardian's Ring
Ring 2 Consuming Darkness
Boots Halcyon Boots / Goatskin Boots
Tinket Planar Focus: Prowess (Ins Dex+3) / Momento of War
Weapon ESOS* / EAGA / Skybreaker / Cleaver

* The shard is a lie... the shard is a lie... the shard is a lie......

288.9% heal amp

Seems to cover all the bases well and really help run up the defenses.

[axel15810]

About to TR into this as a PDK from a soul survivor, gear layout being the following:

Goggles Deadly of Accuracy with yellow
Helm Black Dragon Helm (Con +8)
Armor Flawless Black Dragonplate
Necklace Pendant of the Stormreaver / Torc
Bracers 20% convalesent of +13 heal with colorless
Gloves Purple Dragon Gauntlets
Cloak GS ConcOpp HP cloak
Belt Epic Spare Hand
Ring 1 Guardian's Ring
Ring 2 Consuming Darkness
Boots Halcyon Boots / Goatskin Boots
Tinket Planar Focus: Prowess (Ins Dex+3) / Momento of War
Weapon ESOS* / EAGA / Skybreaker / Cleaver

* The shard is a lie... the shard is a lie... the shard is a lie......

288.9% heal amp

Seems to cover all the bases well and really help run up the defenses.

really nice layout! I haven't bought the expansion and didn't know some of those items existed.

[painkiller3]

As a stand-in for the pendant of stormreaver, I find the improved deception from golden guile (epic or normal) to work great on trash all the way up to giantsd and wood woads

[Ailia]

The neck slot definitely has the most room for variation, considering using it as a second greensteel slot currently. Having difficulty finding any way to improve on the other slots though.

Really liking the Momento of War option when not using a CITW weapon.

[Choopak]

Love the build, i use to play a WF, FvS, lord of the blade, almost unkillable, healing machine! Now with new enahncements and whatnot... his time is at an end. Now quick questions:
1) with U20 here and the new way to Tr into iconic races from level 20 (instead of 28), wouldn't that build work better as a PKD?
2) what's the biggest differences between your build and :False Hope (18 Fvs/2 Pal) https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425357-U19-False-Hope-Melee-Soul, beside the obvious one (FvS vs cleric)
Thanks for posting this

[Ailia]

Not much different between PDK and human version other than starting at 15 and getting a 10% heal amp trinket that you can't get otherwise. Honestly liking the PDK if for no other reason I'm sick of playing a human/WF for every character, half orc animations are a nice change of pace too.

Most noticeable difference other than cleric vs fvs is having haste boost as a class skill rather than ED/Twist. Cleric is a bit more survivable than the FvS build due to passive healing but a little weaker in DPS. Overall both in legendary dread play pretty **** similarly, having just TRed from one to the other I find cleric a bit better due to the extra spell slots and zero-sp healing options.

[Choopak]

Not much different between PDK and human version other than starting at 15 and getting a 10% heal amp trinket that you can't get otherwise. Honestly liking the PDK if for no other reason I'm sick of playing a human/WF for every character, half orc animations are a nice change of pace too.

Most noticeable difference other than cleric vs fvs is having haste boost as a class skill rather than ED/Twist. Cleric is a bit more survivable than the FvS build due to passive healing but a little weaker in DPS. Overall both in legendary dread play pretty **** similarly, having just TRed from one to the other I find cleric a bit better due to the extra spell slots and zero-sp healing options.

Thanks for the good summary, exactly what i wanted...
I like cleric's aura also, just for the no trouble, lol i have a FvS, lord of blade WF... Will probably TR him into this...

[wtorchia]

I hit lvl 23 over the weekend so I have another update. Thanks to the raiders box I now have a set of nightmares and a set of celstias. After playing around with gear and ED here is what I am running till 24.

Head/armor/gloves : PDK
Cloak: Epic envenomed cloak
Ring 1: Signet of the Shining Sun
Ring 2: Ring of the Stalker (fully upgraded, 150 SP, 1 exceptional char)
Neck : Deadly 5/ accuracy 7
Boots: Speed boots (+ 11 balance, empty yellow)
Bracer: 20% healing amp , Superior Parrying
Trinket: Fetish (EN, empty colorless)
Goggles: Green steel con op SP
Weapons: 2 x Celestia for large groups, 2 x nightmare rest of the time. I have player around with 1 x nightmare, 1 x celestia as well.

Enhancements: RS aura, speed boost (tier 1, trying to fit in more), Human healing amp tier 3, Ameliorating Strike, DM, Inflame.

ED: FOTW

Twists: Piercing clarity, improved power attack, +3 action boost

I played around a lot with gear before I settled on this setup. I may still go back to Flawless red for armor and Seal of House Szind. Once I hit 24 I will def switch to flawless black set though. With my ship buffs I am healing for 58 HP each tick of my aura. Nightmare heals me for 4-6 HP each hit.

Over all this build is a blast to play. I have only 1550 sp, but I end most quests with plenty to spare. Between Ameliorating Strike, aura, nightmare, and burst I almost never have to use SP to heal. Twin base Nightmares is putting out good DPS. I am not seeing a lot of nightmare insta kills, or level drains though. Celestia seems to crit a lot with 2 of the though. Celestia blinds targets a lot. If I can get a Ring of Deceit I may got to 1 x celestia, 1 x nightmare full time.

[axel15810]

Not much different between PDK and human version other than starting at 15 and getting a 10% heal amp trinket that you can't get otherwise. Honestly liking the PDK if for no other reason I'm sick of playing a human/WF for every character, half orc animations are a nice change of pace too.

Most noticeable difference other than cleric vs fvs is having haste boost as a class skill rather than ED/Twist. Cleric is a bit more survivable than the FvS build due to passive healing but a little weaker in DPS. Overall both in legendary dread play pretty **** similarly, having just TRed from one to the other I find cleric a bit better due to the extra spell slots and zero-sp healing options.

Also PDK get +2 to saves over humans from the Purple Dragon Aura enhancement. The only thing that humans seem to have over PDK is the dragonmarks.

[svinja]

So I have a cleric that has this exact level split but mine is TWF (I want it to stay TWF, I have no other TWFer).

What are the best weapon and armor choices?

I have 2 raider's boxes and I could spare the scales for a flawless armor I guess. 2x Balizarde and Flawless Black? Balizarde + Mornh + Flawless black? 2x Celestia + some other armor? Balizarde + Agony? Nightmare + First Blood (not sure where I would fit in BS proficiency though)?

[wtorchia]

So I have a cleric that has this exact level split but mine is TWF (I want it to stay TWF, I have no other TWFer).

What are the best weapon and armor choices?

I have 2 raider's boxes and I could spare the scales for a flawless armor I guess. 2x Balizarde and Flawless Black? Balizarde + Mornh + Flawless black? 2x Celestia + some other armor? Balizarde + Agony? Nightmare + First Blood (not sure where I would fit in BS proficiency though)?

I am running TWF as well. I am using 2 x nightmare right now with the PDK set at lvl 23. I also have 2 x Celestia. Once I get my PDK rep back up to 375 (80 more to go) I will be using Flawless red until 25 then Flawless black. Here are the high points of the 2 weapons sets:

Celestia:
No Feet
Blinding
AOE
No penalty to hit since it is short sword
Passes ALL DR

Nightmare:
Slightly higher non crit DPS
Life steeling gives 4-6 HP per hit
Neg level drain can be a live saver in EE
Low chance of insta kill


I use the Celestia pair when I am against a lot of mobs, or need to break DR. 2 x Nightmare is used the rest of the time.

[svinja]

I am running TWF as well. I am using 2 x nightmare right now with the PDK set at lvl 23. I also have 2 x Celestia. Once I get my PDK rep back up to 375 (80 more to go) I will be using Flawless red until 25 then Flawless black. Here are the high points of the 2 weapons sets:

Celestia:
No Feet
Blinding
AOE
No penalty to hit since it is short sword
Passes ALL DR

Nightmare:
Slightly higher non crit DPS
Life steeling gives 4-6 HP per hit
Neg level drain can be a live saver in EE
Low chance of insta kill


I use the Celestia pair when I am against a lot of mobs, or need to break DR. 2 x Nightmare is used the rest of the time.

Thanks. I ended up taking a Celestia and a Balizarde. Holy **** Celestia procs a lot... I wish I had taken two of them :D Guess I'll have to do some CITW to get it now.

[wtorchia]

Thanks. I ended up taking a Celestia and a Balizarde. Holy **** Celestia procs a lot... I wish I had taken two of them :D Guess I'll have to do some CITW to get it now.

You should see it with 2 :D

[firemedium_jt]

bump

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433214-CLR17-WIZ1-FTR2-Human-Melee-THF-has-5-Supreme-tome-What-to-do

CLR17/PAL2/FTR1

build added to above thread.

Any insight is appreciated.

[RPGMasta]

i am trying to create a variation of this build, but having some major hiccups.

firstly, i am first life dwarf, so the healing amp is fairly nonexistent. my aura is only ticking for 17-18. without being human, i am missing out on the free feat, but i somehow miscalculated and was two feats short to get Quicken.
being a dwarf, i took the racial and kensai for axes, i am wanting to farm the elemental great axe from cannith challenges, but killing things with melee seems difficult. roughly 25-30 dmg per swing. i feel extremely broken and not quite sure how to fix it.

so, I LR'd to a more caster focused build with Heighten and spell focus: evocation, but i don't like having to burn through all my mana to get things to die. maybe i'm not playing correctly, but that may be because i'm definitely more melee focused.

any tips or links to other builds that might fit me better?

[axel15810]

i am trying to create a variation of this build, but having some major hiccups.

firstly, i am first life dwarf, so the healing amp is fairly nonexistent. my aura is only ticking for 17-18. without being human, i am missing out on the free feat, but i somehow miscalculated and was two feats short to get Quicken.
being a dwarf, i took the racial and kensai for axes, i am wanting to farm the elemental great axe from cannith challenges, but killing things with melee seems difficult. roughly 25-30 dmg per swing. i feel extremely broken and not quite sure how to fix it.

so, I LR'd to a more caster focused build with Heighten and spell focus: evocation, but i don't like having to burn through all my mana to get things to die. maybe i'm not playing correctly, but that may be because i'm definitely more melee focused.

any tips or links to other builds that might fit me better?

Create a new thread in the cleric forum as to not muddy up this one, and post your build - feats, stats, gear, enhancements, ect.

We'll be able to help you out. Sounds like you have some issues with your build.

[wtorchia]

Update / bump time again. I am now lvl 26. I just picked up a ring of deceit last night. So after juggling some gear and augments here is where I am at:

DPS set up:
Goggles: Con opp - SP
Head: EH black dragon - 8 con, 35 life, Globe of True Imperial Blood
Armor: Flawless back - 14 PRR
Gloves - PDK (I REALLY want to replace these. I just have no other way to get the 30% healing amp)
Ring 1: Ring of Deceit - +2 char
Ring 2: Ring of the Stalker - 20 toughness, + 7 heal (Will be upgraded soon)
Neck : 175 SP, Deady 6 (looking for something better. Open to suggestions)
Trinket: Planar Focus Prowess - 8 st.
Belt : Smoke - HP (I am going to replace this with a Min 2 one or get a set of Goatskin with fort on them)
Boot: 110% fort, speed (Once the belt is replaced these will prob be spiked or Goatskin if not.)
Wrist: 20% healing amp, Superior Parrying
Weapons: 2 x Celestia - main 1 has Planar set upgrade.
126 poss spell power stick for aura.

ED: LD
Twists: Brace for impact, Primal Scream, Sense Weakness

Healing setup:
Goggles: Con opp - SP
Head: EH black dragon - 8 con, 35 life, Globe of True Imperial Blood
Armor: Flawless Green
Gloves - PDK
Ring 1: 108 pos spell power
Ring 2: Signet of the Shining Sun
Neck : 200 SP, 8 wis
Trinket: Holy Symbol of Lolth
Belt : Smoke - HP
Boot: 110% fort, speed
Wrist: 20% healing amp, Superior Parrying
Weapons: Various caster sticks and heal scrolls

ED: EA
Twists: Brace for impact, Fey Form, Healing Hands

Over all I am LOVING this setup. Can't really ask for more out of it. 2 x Celestia blinds most mobs fast. Add in all of the speed / damage boosts and I am just cutting up mobs. Once I replace the belt, boots and necklace I am not really sure what else will need tweaking at cap.

I am debating if I will ETR, or just play at cap for a while. If anyone has a build that they like that they run in EA or US EDs I would love to see them. I just can not find a set up that I am willing to ETR 3-9 times with.

[painkiller3]

anyone else have a gear setup they'd care to recommend?

[firemedium_jt]

Update / bump time again. I am now lvl 26. I just picked up a ring of deceit last night. So after juggling some gear and augments here is where I am at:

DPS set up:
Goggles: Con opp - SP
Head: EH black dragon - 8 con, 35 life, Globe of True Imperial Blood
Armor: Flawless back - 14 PRR
Gloves - PDK (I REALLY want to replace these. I just have no other way to get the 30% healing amp)
Ring 1: Ring of Deceit - +2 char
Ring 2: Ring of the Stalker - 20 toughness, + 7 heal (Will be upgraded soon)
Neck : 175 SP, Deady 6 (looking for something better. Open to suggestions)
Trinket: Planar Focus Prowess - 8 st.
Belt : Smoke - HP (I am going to replace this with a Min 2 one or get a set of Goatskin with fort on them)
Boot: 110% fort, speed (Once the belt is replaced these will prob be spiked or Goatskin if not.)
Wrist: 20% healing amp, Superior Parrying
Weapons: 2 x Celestia - main 1 has Planar set upgrade.
126 poss spell power stick for aura.

ED: LD
Twists: Brace for impact, Primal Scream, Sense Weakness

Healing setup:
Goggles: Con opp - SP
Head: EH black dragon - 8 con, 35 life, Globe of True Imperial Blood
Armor: Flawless Green
Gloves - PDK
Ring 1: 108 pos spell power
Ring 2: Signet of the Shining Sun
Neck : 200 SP, 8 wis
Trinket: Holy Symbol of Lolth
Belt : Smoke - HP
Boot: 110% fort, speed
Wrist: 20% healing amp, Superior Parrying
Weapons: Various caster sticks and heal scrolls

ED: EA
Twists: Brace for impact, Fey Form, Healing Hands

Over all I am LOVING this setup. Can't really ask for more out of it. 2 x Celestia blinds most mobs fast. Add in all of the speed / damage boosts and I am just cutting up mobs. Once I replace the belt, boots and necklace I am not really sure what else will need tweaking at cap.

I am debating if I will ETR, or just play at cap for a while. If anyone has a build that they like that they run in EA or US EDs I would love to see them. I just can not find a set up that I am willing to ETR 3-9 times with.

I hope when you say caster sticks you dont mean scepters or staff. You can find martial and exotic weapons with spell power, lore, and a red slot for ruby spell power. I like Scimitars for their critical range with Improved Critical slash feat. Kukri critical range is 18 to 20 also and good too for TWF.

What are the Bracers that have healing amp and parry?

[RPGMasta]

I hope when you say caster sticks you dont mean scepters or staff. You can find martial and exotic weapons with spell power, lore, and a red slot for ruby spell power. I like Scimitars for their critical range with Improved Critical slash feat. Kukri critical range is 18 to 20 also and good too for TWF.

What are the Bracers that have healing amp and parry?

i saw an item in the AH called lesser convalescence or something of that nature.

[axel15810]

I hope when you say caster sticks you dont mean scepters or staff. You can find martial and exotic weapons with spell power, lore, and a red slot for ruby spell power. I like Scimitars for their critical range with Improved Critical slash feat. Kukri critical range is 18 to 20 also and good too for TWF.

What are the Bracers that have healing amp and parry?

Convalescent. They no longer drop. When the loot tables were revamped last year they were taken out and they've yet to be put back in. You can ocassionally see them on the auction house, usually for crazy high prices.

[Toxxyk]

I TR'd my caster spec cleric into a purple dragon knight version of this build.

I'm having a blast with it. By far the most fun I've had with a melee build.

Thanks!

[Kindoki]

I TR'd my caster spec cleric into a purple dragon knight version of this build.

I'm having a blast with it. By far the most fun I've had with a melee build.

Thanks!


came across this thread while I was searching for ideas on the same thing. I have a caster cleric I decided to move to melee and was thinking PDK to start. Though I'm also looking at divine crusader rather than unyielding sentinel, as a possibility.

Question for anyone out there. I'm just not feeling the THF; regardless of the fact I know it's quite a bit less effective, I'm thinking classic cleric sword and board. Can anyone give me some ideas for (or point me to) a build with sword and board? I'd rather not reinvent the wheel if I don't need to.

[pafunk]

Here's a summary of what I've gotten from this thread for easy reference.

THF
32pt: 16/10/14/10/10/16 (could drop CHA to 14 and boost DEX to 14 for reflex saves, as OP suggests)
34pt: 16/12/14/10/10/16 (or 14 Dex/15 Cha)
36pt: 16/14/14/10/10/16
Personally, I think the extra Cha bonus would be more worthwhile than +28 hp at level 28, but maybe not.

1: Power Attack
1h: empower healing
2f: cleave
3: thf
6: great cleave
9: maximize
12: ic: slash
15: ithf
18: gthf
21: quicken
24: overwhelming crit
26e: perfect thf
27: Blinding speed
28e: perfect twf/other?

Human – 17 pts
tier 3 healing amp
Purple Dragon Aura (+2 saves) (if PDK)

Radiant Servant – Cap 32/33 pts

Warpriest – 10-15 pts
hp, dr 5/-, divine might, 10prr and inflame
ameliorating strike?

Kensai – 4 pts
haste boost

Divine Disciple – 9 pts?
saves, SP

TWF
36 pt: 16/14/14/10/10/16
32 pt: drop CHA 2

1: Power Attack
1h: empower healing
2f: cleave
3: twf
6: great cleave
9: maximize
12: itwf
15: gtwf
18: ic: slashing
21: quicken
24: overwhelming crit
26e: perfect twf
27: Blinding speed
28e: toughness/guardian angel/other?

[unbongwah]

Any thoughts on adapting this build to SWF+orb combo?

[pafunk]

Any thoughts on adapting this build to SWF+orb combo?

Keeping Concentration, Heal, and Balance as high as you can, you should be able to take Improved SWF at 9 and Greater SWF at 15 (you should hit balance 7 at lvl 13). With a +2 INT tome at 7 you can get UMD up to 10 (without it you only get 3). IC and Maximize are taken at 12 or 18. Sounds like you can't take Perfect TWF, so take toughness or something else. SWF looks pretty appealing with this build - downside is ameliorating strike will heal for less. This is with longswords/Sovereign Host for favored weapon bonuses - if you're using an exotic weapon my guess would be to bump metamagic feats back. Or maybe dwarf if you're into flavor builds.

EDIT: Here's one way to arrange feats with a weapon proficiency. You end up losing a metamagic feat.

1: Power Attack
1h: Cleave
2f: weapon proficiency: bastard sword
3: swf
6: great cleave
9: improved swf
12: improved critical: slashing OR metamagic feat
15: greater swf
18: empower healing/maximize OR improved critical
21: quicken/maximize
24: overwhelming crit
26e: perfect swf
27: Blinding speed
28e: perfect twf (if possible) or ????

[Nodoze]

Here's a summary of what I've gotten from this thread for easy reference.

THF
32pt: 16/10/14/10/10/16 (could drop CHA to 14 and boost DEX to 14 for reflex saves, as OP suggests)
...
1: Power Attack
1h: empower healing
2f: cleave
3: thf
6: great cleave
9: maximize
12: ic: slash
15: ithf
18: gthf
21: quicken
24: overwhelming crit
26e: perfect thf
27: Blinding speed
28e: perfect twf/other?

Human – 17 pts
tier 3 healing amp
Purple Dragon Aura (+2 saves) (if PDK)

Radiant Servant – Cap 32/33 pts

Warpriest – 10-15 pts
hp, dr 5/-, divine might, 10prr and inflame
ameliorating strike?

Kensai – 4 pts
haste boost

Divine Disciple – 9 pts?
saves, SP
...Thanks for the summary.

Would the above be a good stats starting point for a new F2P character with access to 32 point builds but no prior gear or tomes?

If you were a true F2P at 28 points would you reduce as follows?:

28pt: 16/10/14/10/10/14

Without tomes until level 20 the max wisdom item you will be able to get would be a +6 item so likely would need to take multiple wisdom bonuses from human and cleric trees until you get the commendation or other gear at 20+ giving at least +9 from some combo (+7enh, +2ins, +1exc, racial, class). As long as that was understood I don't know why it couldn't be a new player friendly build...

EDIT: Overall I like the feat line up though personally for me if I was the main healer in the party or solo I would want quicken much earlier for no fail heals...

I assume that taking maximize at level 9 is to get the most out of Divine Punishment at 10 and Blade Barrier at 12 due to taking Fighter at level 2 (assuming saving Paladin till later levels).

Would the following be better if you were the main healer (who also wants to melee) in a new F2P party?:

1: Power Attack
1h: empower healing
2f: cleave
3: thf
6: great cleave
9: maximize
12: quicken
15: ic: slash
18: ithf
21: gthf
24: overwhelming crit
26e: perfect thf
27: Blinding speed
28e: perfect twf/other?

[Lalangamena]

is similar build will be still playable if i take cleric17/paladin3 without the fighter level?

what feats will i dump? (in two handed weapon version)

I am asking because of the upcoming balance of divine grace.

[painkiller3]

is similar build will be still playable if i take cleric17/paladin3 without the fighter level?

what feats will i dump? (in two handed weapon version)

I am asking because of the upcoming balance of divine grace.

probably maximize and gthf...unfortunately there's no spot to put it back in unless you don't take blinding speed, but since glancing blows don't work when you're moving it's probably the best way to do it

re : SWF and orbs...don't you need to be in swashbuckler stance for orbs to work with SWF?

[Vellrad]

probably maximize and gthf...unfortunately there's no spot to put it back in unless you don't take blinding speed, but since glancing blows don't work when you're moving it's probably the best way to do it

re : SWF and orbs...don't you need to be in swashbuckler stance for orbs to work with SWF?

no.
you can have nothing or orb, 2 levels of artificer adds runearm, t3 or t4 (dont remembeR) swashbuckler adds bucklers.

[painkiller3]

no.
you can have nothing or orb, 2 levels of artificer adds runearm, t3 or t4 (dont remembeR) swashbuckler adds bucklers.

very cool, i misunderstood it...you need t3 to swashbuckle with orbs/runearms, but that doesn't affect SWF without it. sorry for spreading misinformation :s

[Toxxyk]

I have been playing this build and loving it.

Now that the Devs have confirmed the nerf to Divine Grace, does this build still make sense with 2 levels of Pally?

[daniel7]

I have been playing this build and loving it.

Now that the Devs have confirmed the nerf to Divine Grace, does this build still make sense with 2 levels of Pally?

Good news is you don't have to take cleave and great cleave for overwhelming critical though.

I'm coming back to the game after taking a two year break. Does Stunning Fist still work well? I looked at the wiki and it says it still uses character level for the DC and not Monk levels like what had been proposed.

[Warinx]

How would you build this for u23 with the pally updates etc?

17 Cleric 3 Paladin for the stance and +3 saves?

[firemedium_jt]

I would take PAL tier 2 exalted cleave and replace your cleave shortcut hotkey with it.

With PAL3 u might look at Exalted Smite but I read the animation is bugged.

I just cant see dropping FTR1 and I think we might need CLR17 for the expansion. I will wait after that to change CLR17 to 15 or 13 although the +5LR is on sale. I like the action boosts from ftr tier 1 for haste and human damage boost.

If you are a strike down cleaver type build with all the special attacks that interupt normal attacks do u need ftr haste?