Bizzarre undead melee

[Zoink]

This is an excersize in creating a "could that work" melee character that was inspired by a wizard tank build I saw. I want to know your thoughts on if I'm smoking something, or that this could actually work.

It relies on a unusual combination:
Wizard 12 (Palemaster for enhanced Wraith Form, and Tensers Transformation)
Cleric 5 (Warpriest)
Monk 3 (Path of darkness and enhanced earth stance).
Leveling progression:
1 monk(skills), 2-10 wiz, then.. whatever floats your boat. Probably cleric

Race: Drow (shortswords get cleric warpriest enhancement buffs, so synergizes well), and clickies are negative energy based.

Stats 32 pt are MAD so spread out except for CHA as dump stat. Level up points into STR.
STR 14 (level ups go here)
DEX 16 (needs +1 tome for ITWF)
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 12 (needs +1 items to unlock lv 3 spells)
CHA 10

Feats:
1 TWF
3 Dodge ?
6 Monk: Adept of Forms
9 ITWF
12 Monk: Master of Forms
15 Imp Crit Pierce
18 Monk: Grand Master of Forms
1m TW Defense
2m ? Power Attack
1w Maximize Spell
5w Quicken Spell
10w Maximize Spell

Skills:
Concentrate, Heal, with spare points in Hide/Sneak (for fun)

Enhancements will be spread overly thin, but focusing on negative energy stuff, lots of warpriest / palemaster stuff. Leftover into Drow and Monk.

What do you guys think? Crazy idea, or just maybe crazy enough to work?

[Soulfurnace]

Not sure about the build, I like stunning fist as an undead :P

However, what was this wizard/tank you saw? This I must see!

[Zoink]

The arcane tank I was referring to was this:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/424944-The-Arcane-Tank-a-weird-build

[Lauf]

1w Maximize Spell
5w Quicken Spell
10w Maximize Spell

minor correction needed to your feats there



What do you guys think? Crazy idea, or just maybe crazy enough to work?

overall this falls into the might just be crazy enough to be usable :)

a few questions though:
1. why would you go for a strength build? your ability points are spread thin as it is, and ninja-spy grants dex to shortswords
2. what are you looking to take from the warpriest tier 5 that makes 5 levels of cleric worth the splash?
3. you've mentioned investing heavily in negative energy yet haven't mentioned the divine disciple tree (which is the only reason I see for going cleric over fvs). how do you see your enhancements being split?

[Soulfurnace]

The arcane tank I was referring to was this:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/424944-The-Arcane-Tank-a-weird-build
Eh. In what alternate reality is that a tank? It's just a TWF wizard. ****, and here you got my hopes up, thinking it would be an actual wizard tank :(

I did roughly the same thing, except I picked up stunning fist for no-fail stun. (Which works well with sense weakness and no mercy)

[Rhaphael]

This is an excersize in creating a "could that work" melee character that was inspired by a wizard tank build I saw. I want to know your thoughts on if I'm smoking something, or that this could actually work.

It relies on a unusual combination:
Wizard 12 (Palemaster for enhanced Wraith Form, and Tensers Transformation)
Cleric 5 (Warpriest)
Monk 3 (Path of darkness and enhanced earth stance).
Leveling progression:
1 monk(skills), 2-10 wiz, then.. whatever floats your boat. Probably cleric

Race: Drow (shortswords get cleric warpriest enhancement buffs, so synergizes well), and clickies are negative energy based.

Stats 32 pt are MAD so spread out except for CHA as dump stat. Level up points into STR.
STR 14 (level ups go here)
DEX 16 (needs +1 tome for ITWF)
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 12 (needs +1 items to unlock lv 3 spells)
CHA 10

Feats:
1 TWF
3 Dodge ?
6 Monk: Adept of Forms
9 ITWF
12 Monk: Master of Forms
15 Imp Crit Pierce
18 Monk: Grand Master of Forms
1m TW Defense
2m ? Power Attack
1w Maximize Spell
5w Quicken Spell
10w Maximize Spell

Skills:
Concentrate, Heal, with spare points in Hide/Sneak (for fun)

Enhancements will be spread overly thin, but focusing on negative energy stuff, lots of warpriest / palemaster stuff. Leftover into Drow and Monk.

What do you guys think? Crazy idea, or just maybe crazy enough to work?
That's more or less the type of build I'm leveling right now. Drow, TWF, Shortswords, Wraith form, monk stances. Except I'm using ranger instead of cleric to get the TWF feats for free. Works great so far, but only level 9 atm. Got it all worked out on paper though, and should be great.

[Zoink]

minor correction needed to your feats there



overall this falls into the might just be crazy enough to be usable :)

a few questions though:
1. why would you go for a strength build? your ability points are spread thin as it is, and ninja-spy grants dex to shortswords
2. what are you looking to take from the warpriest tier 5 that makes 5 levels of cleric worth the splash?
3. you've mentioned investing heavily in negative energy yet haven't mentioned the divine disciple tree (which is the only reason I see for going cleric over fvs). how do you see your enhancements being split?


Thanks for the feedback!
Answers:
1: Strength build because the cleric warpriest Divine Power +6 str and the two +1 str getting there.
2: See #1, I just like the cleric warpriest stuff. And it gives 4ac, 10prr, 5 DR/, +4 hit/dam for shortswords.
3: I'm not sure how to spend what few points I'll have left in the divine disciple tree. Hence me not mentioning it much. I was thinking more of the potential synergy of divine disciple, monk path of shadow, and palemaster stuff.

I'm messing around with it now, but doing a different level progression. Going 1 monk, and getting the cleric levels out of the way for the tankishness.

[sirgog]

Divine Power's +6 Str doesn't stack with items. The enhancement is pretty good as it brings your BAB up to character level (and in doing so increases attack speed), but the Str bonus is irrelevant.

[Lauf]

Thanks for the feedback!
Answers:
1: Strength build because the cleric warpriest Divine Power +6 str and the two +1 str getting there.
2: See #1, I just like the cleric warpriest stuff. And it gives 4ac, 10prr, 5 DR/, +4 hit/dam for shortswords.
3: I'm not sure how to spend what few points I'll have left in the divine disciple tree. Hence me not mentioning it much. I was thinking more of the potential synergy of divine disciple, monk path of shadow, and palemaster stuff.

I'm messing around with it now, but doing a different level progression. Going 1 monk, and getting the cleric levels out of the way for the tankishness.

as has been mentioned, the +6 str from warpriest won't stack with items, or in other words, it's as if you have a +6 str item equipped... so equipping a +6 dex item would have the same effect on a dex build.
your starting dex is already 2 points higher than your strength, so taking the two +1 str from warpriest just serves to even things out, no edge there for a strength build over dex. in the meantime you're wasting both ability points and enhancement points, and the only thing it accomplishes is getting this build on par with what it would be had you simply gone with dex.

while divine power is nice, you're better off casting / scrolling tenser's transformation (Full BaB, +4 Alchemical bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, a +6 Alchemical bonus to Armor Class) and going for the tier 5 in the pale master tree
for improved shrouding:
While in Shroud of the Wraith, you gain +2 Dexterity (another good reason in favor of a dex build) and your Incorporeal Miss Chance increases from 25% to 35%.

going down this path would free up ability points (from strength), free up enhancement points, result in a higher AC, higher to-hit, better damage, better defenses.

not needing tier 5 from cleric means you can also afford to take 4 cleric levels instead of 5, either taking a wizard level for more spells or a monk level for an additional +1 to all saves and +2% dodge

[Zoink]

Divine Power's +6 Str doesn't stack with items. The enhancement is pretty good as it brings your BAB up to character level (and in doing so increases attack speed), but the Str bonus is irrelevant.

DOH! I didn't know that! Thanks! Ok, that changes things quite a bit... going to investigate the DEX based variant.

[Zoink]

as has been mentioned, the +6 str from warpriest won't stack with items, or in other words, it's as if you have a +6 str item equipped... so equipping a +6 dex item would have the same effect on a dex build.
your starting dex is already 2 points higher than your strength, so taking the two +1 str from warpriest just serves to even things out, no edge there for a strength build over dex. in the meantime you're wasting both ability points and enhancement points, and the only thing it accomplishes is getting this build on par with what it would be had you simply gone with dex.

while divine power is nice, you're better off casting / scrolling tenser's transformation (Full BaB, +4 Alchemical bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, a +6 Alchemical bonus to Armor Class) and going for the tier 5 in the pale master tree
for improved shrouding:
While in Shroud of the Wraith, you gain +2 Dexterity (another good reason in favor of a dex build) and your Incorporeal Miss Chance increases from 25% to 35%.

going down this path would free up ability points (from strength), free up enhancement points, result in a higher AC, higher to-hit, better damage, better defenses.

not needing tier 5 from cleric means you can also afford to take 4 cleric levels instead of 5, either taking a wizard level for more spells or a monk level for an additional +1 to all saves and +2% dodge

Awesome feedback guys, thanks. Giving me a lot to think about.

[Impaqt]

I'm not seeing the point of the cleric levels at all.

Bumping Monk up to 6 gives you essentially two more feats, a step up in Damage die, more dodge, more AC, and more movement speed.

What are the cleric levels providing?

Going all the way to 8 on the monk side offers yet another damage die step up.... But there may be better splashes depending on the actual goal of the build.

[Lauf]

I'm not seeing the point of the cleric levels at all.

Bumping Monk up to 6 gives you essentially two more feats, a step up in Damage die, more dodge, more AC, and more movement speed.

What are the cleric levels providing?



as the OP is making a shortsword build, the monk damage die increase would be meaningless to him
cleric would give him bonuses to hp, AC, PRR, DR 5/-, extra negative energy spell power from divine disciple, bonuses to shortswords as faith weapons and the ability to cast inflict moderate wounds.

now I'm not saying it's the best possible splash, but the OP isn't going for a min/max build anyways, and those are the advantages of those cleric levels.

[Zoink]

Ok, so defininitely making the dex variation. And dropping cleric to 3 levels. Putting one saved into Monk, and one into... ?
CLR 3
Monk 4-5
Wiz 12-13

32 points:
STR 8
DEX 18
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 14
CHA 10

Been struggling with AP. I listed out all the things I wanted and ended up with like 200 AP spent. Which... doesn't work.

So,
Wiz PM 21 to get Wraith Form, 32 for Imp Wraith.
Wiz AM 0
Drow 20 points for getting all the tier 4 stuff.
Monk Ninja 6 to get DEX damage
Monk Shintao 15 to get Iron Skin
Cleric WAR 12 to get tier 3 weapons
21 + 20 + 6 + 15 + 12 = 74.. a whole whopping 6 points left for Divine Disciple or any extra stuff. Spread too thin...
Cleric DIV 6 for... some bonus negative spell power?

[Soulfurnace]

Drop improved shrouding. 35%>25%, yes. But the overall difference once fully geared/buffed is negligible.

.5*.75*.75*.95 versus .5*.65*.75*.95 (displacement, shrouding (first not improved, second improved), dodge (25% is easy now), enemy rolls a 1)

26.7% chance to be hit, versus 23.1% chance.

[Rhaphael]

Ok, so defininitely making the dex variation. And dropping cleric to 3 levels. Putting one saved into Monk, and one into... ?
CLR 3
Monk 4-5
Wiz 12-13

32 points:
STR 8
DEX 18
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 14
CHA 10

Been struggling with AP. I listed out all the things I wanted and ended up with like 200 AP spent. Which... doesn't work.

So,
Wiz PM 21 to get Wraith Form, 32 for Imp Wraith.
Wiz AM 0
Drow 20 points for getting all the tier 4 stuff.
Monk Ninja 6 to get DEX damage
Monk Shintao 15 to get Iron Skin
Cleric WAR 12 to get tier 3 weapons
21 + 20 + 6 + 15 + 12 = 74.. a whole whopping 6 points left for Divine Disciple or any extra stuff. Spread too thin...
Cleric DIV 6 for... some bonus negative spell power?

I get your problem :(. I ended up spending none in race because of all the other things I wanted/needed...