BYOH Barb

[Lauf]

with the new trees no longer requiring barbs to kill themselves, I've decided to look into rolling another barb life on my main.
the main problem being that BYOH is a must have for me.

---EDIT added the following summary:

for those of you coming to this thread looking for ideas on how to build a BYOH capable barb, here's a summary of the ideas raised in this thread :

pure Barb, chug pots. good luck.
pure Barb, halfling with dragonmarks or human , OS tree, have as many temp hp items as possible (demonic shield, con-opp, bodyfeeder) & chug pots.
12 barb 8 arti, warforged, at early levels using the dog invis and on passive, following you & granting aura-repairs. at later levels umd scroll reconstructs.
12/10 barb, 8 bard, 2 rogue or fighter. blur + displace + haste, some healing spells and umd scrolling when not raged.
14 barb, 4 fvs, 2 rogue. heal with Ameliorating strike, twf for double proc chance with it, some healing spells and umd scrolling when not raged.
12 barb, 4 fvs, 4 rogue. generally along the same lines as the above option, only going with helf + pally dilli for improved saves.
11 barb 5 rogue 4 fvs. halfling with dragonmarks, heal while raged with Ameliorating strike, full blown acrobat (qstaff build, 25% doublestrike), some healing spells, umd and dragonmarks healing when not raged.
9 barb 7 rogue 4 cleric, halfling with dragonmarks, same idea as the previous build, a little more newbie friendly (more skill points from rogue levels, cleric instead of fvs)
9 barb 9 wiz 2 fighter (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/426994-BYOH-Barb?p=5236301#post5236301). frenzy in vampire form
8 barb 8 druid 4 fvs (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/426994-BYOH-Barb?p=5277899&viewfull=1#post5277899). winter wolf + ravager + ameliorating strike


unless specifically stated otherwise, assume the race for the build is human for maximum heal amp.

--- Original post:

so far the best idea I could come up with is taking halfling for dragonmarks
5 rogue levels for trapping skills and acrobat training (& tier 5) using a bloody staff of shadow (+5, Lesser Vampirism, Life Stealing, Bodyfeeder)
adding 4 fvs levels to the mix for that healing smite goodness, as well as access to meta-magics to amplify the halfling dragonmarks
and that would leave me with 11 barbarian levels

the thing I'm wracking my brains about now is that there simply aren't enough APs to go around... after the racial tree, the warpriest and the acrobat, I'd have very few points left to pour into the barbarian trees.

it'll still be a high-damage high-survivability build, just not sure it would "feel" anything like what you'd expect from a barbarian.

has anyone been able to come up with a decent self healing barb build? preferably something that doesn't require you to chug pots or dismiss rage whenever you need a heal...

[kned225]

so far the best idea I could come up with is taking halfling for dragonmarks
5 rogue levels for trapping skills and acrobat training (& tier 5) using a bloody staff of shadow (+5, Lesser Vampirism, Life Stealing, Bodyfeeder)
adding 4 cleric levels to the mix for that healing smite goodness, as well as access to meta-magics to amplify the halfling dragonmarks..

Yes devs, this is the state of barbarians...

[Qhualor]

what you are trying to build is not a barbarian with 9 levels of cleric and rogue. if there was a barb tree that fits what you are trying to achieve, it would be OS. your dps would be very lackluster compared to an actual barbarian so investing in Ravager or FB wouldn't make sense for increased damage when you wouldn't be really spending anytime raging. you would only have a handful of rages that last for a short time. in low level quests you could make it to each shrine and the quests are short, but in higher levels the quests are longer and the shrines more spread out. to be able to heal yourself, you cant be raged. you would be spending more time being unraged and healing yourself than to get full benefits and make the rages worth using while being raged.

[Charononus]

with the new trees no longer requiring barbs to kill themselves, I've decided to look into rolling another barb life on my main.
the main problem being that BYOH is a must have for me.

so far the best idea I could come up with is taking halfling for dragonmarks
5 rogue levels for trapping skills and acrobat training (& tier 5) using a bloody staff of shadow (+5, Lesser Vampirism, Life Stealing, Bodyfeeder)
adding 4 cleric levels to the mix for that healing smite goodness, as well as access to meta-magics to amplify the halfling dragonmarks
and that would leave me with 11 barbarian levels

the thing I'm wracking my brains about now is that there simply aren't enough APs to go around... after the racial tree, the warpriest and the acrobat, I'd have very few points left to pour into the barbarian trees.

it'll still be a high-damage high-survivability build, just not sure it would "feel" anything like what you'd expect from a barbarian.

has anyone been able to come up with a decent self healing barb build? preferably something that doesn't require you to chug pots or dismiss rage whenever you need a heal...

Well if you want to go into the warpriest tree you'll want to be using a faith weapon, this means that for me I'd probably go for helf so that you can take the faith line for the undying court and take scimi's as a faith weapon. Then probably 5 cleric for the t5 enhancements for divine power for more bab and magic backlash. Then 2 rogue for evasion and umd. The rest barb. You'd have the Ameliorating Strike to heal with, could drop out and heal scroll if needed as well as raise dead and tensor. It'd probably be pretty decent for a past life imo. I'd actually probably go fvs though instead of cleric because they have better saves.

It probably won't feel too barb ish but I think it'd probably get a good past life, and for boss fights where you are in a group you could divine might, barb rage, etc and boost your str pretty high.

edit*

I'd pass on trap skills as raising int high enough might lower the rest of your stats too far, just make sure with this type of build to always take the heal skill to raise devotion and to work a devotion item into your gear so your strike is strong enough.

[Lauf]

Well if you want to go into the warpriest tree you'll want to be using a faith weapon, this means that for me I'd probably go for helf so that you can take the faith line for the undying court and take scimi's as a faith weapon.

I've given it some thought, but IMO an acrobat with a bloody shadow staff would offer more in terms of both survivability and damage than using any kind faith weapon would. scimis included. only downside to that is that I'll be investing heavily not only in the warpriest tree, but also in the acrobat.


I'd actually probably go fvs though instead of cleric because they have better saves.
a very good suggestion, thank you :)



I'd pass on trap skills as raising int high enough might lower the rest of your stats too far
no worries there, barbarians get a good deal of skill points to begin with, and 5 rogue levels more than make up for the 4 divine ones. a starting int of 12 would be enough to max heal, search, DD + a skill of choice

[Lauf]

if there was a barb tree that fits what you are trying to achieve, it would be OS. you wouldn't be really spending anytime raging. you would be spending more time being unraged and healing yourself than to get full benefits and make the rages worth using while being raged.

I know; the current build I have doesn't use the barbarian class very well, no argument there.
the reason I started this thread was to see if anyone has a barbarian build that can self heal and plays more like a barbarian... as I don't relish in gutting the class just to make it fit my needs.


your dps would be very lackluster compared to an actual barbarian
I wouldn't call a tier 5 acrobat's dps very lackluster... but undoubtedly it wouldn't compare to that of a full blown raging berzerker's.
some compromises had to be made to accommodate self healing, which is why I came here to seek advice on the matter.

[Charononus]

I've given it some thought, but IMO an acrobat with a bloody shadow staff would offer more in terms of both survivability and damage than using any kind faith weapon would. scimis included. only downside to that is that I'll be investing heavily not only in the warpriest tree, but also in the acrobat.


I'm not sure about that, the staff has vampirism and bodyfeeder but imo those don't scale up very well once you start getting into the sands, gh range. Going for faith weapons lets you use any faith weapon as an implement and it gives enhancement bonuses. I have a twf longsword wp at the moment since before the lr he was human, and iirc it adds 5 to the enhancement bonus and makes the etimeblade a +30 implement. The enhancment bonus just adds damage and gets a bigger implement, that extra spwr will really help boost your strike up so that you're healing to full every 15 secs when you hit it.

[era42]

using a bloody staff of shadow (+5, Lesser Vampirism, Life Stealing, Bodyfeeder)


I would advise against this. My acrobat used Therugic Stave starting at level 8. Then for level 12 I made a Bloody Staff of Shadow, used it for half a quest and then went back to Theurgic Stave. Bigger W for cleaves, double the critrange, 2 slots for a tiny bit of extra damage. Mobs died so much faster that the healing from the bloody staff could not compensate even for the larger amount of incoming damage from the opponents who didn't die as fast, not to mention the annoyance of having to fight longer. If you don't have Theurgic Stave then sure, the good quarterstaff are rare.

The Lordsmarch weapons are extremely outdated, their damage wasn't upgraded when many others were.

[Qhualor]

I wouldn't call a tier 5 acrobat's dps very lackluster... but undoubtedly it wouldn't compare to that of a full blown raging berzerker's.
some compromises had to be made to accommodate self healing, which is why I came here to seek advice on the matter.

it would be lackluster considering a barbarian and the enhancements are focused on dps and str. an acrobat is focused with q-staff damage and dex. you would need to be a dex build which totally makes barb not an ideal choice.

as far as the Staff of Shadow, that's 1 hp regen per hit. i am currently playing a focused acrobat right now and the Staff was nice at 12, but unreliable for good self healing when you will more than likely take on more damage than getting back hp.

[Vellrad]

Did you thought about barb14/cle6? Bursts, divine healing, and restoring full health (unfortunately 10min CD).
But honesty, I don't know if you can burst or DH while raging. BTW, 7 level of cleric gives acces to own fom and DW, but I dont remember what you lose for dropping barb from 14 to 13.



Well if you want to go into the warpriest tree you'll want to be using a faith weapon

No.

Even with full enchancements put in those, favored weapon selection is still junk, unless you're warforged.
And you will get implement bonus only if weapon you're holding got some magic enhancing property (augment will suffice, but random augment weapons will have MUCH higher ml) [or] if you're FvS (OP mentioned only cleric). Anyway, even with implement bonus, +15 spellpower is not really worth putting down real weapon for a weapon-like object.

[Lauf]

I would advise against this. the healing from the bloody staff could not compensate even for the larger amount of incoming damage from the opponents who didn't die as fast, not to mention the annoyance of having to fight longer.

Running a staff build at the moment, and the amounts of sp I need to use on healing decreased drastically since switching from the Therugic Stave to the Bloody Shadow Staff... but I have both staffs (as well as a few gs ones, so figuring it out on the fly shouldn't be a problem.


it would be lackluster considering a barbarian and the enhancements are focused on dps and str. an acrobat is focused with q-staff damage and dex. you would need to be a dex build which totally makes barb not an ideal choice.

That's not quite accurate. Acrobat allows you to use your dex with qstaffs, but it in no way prevents you from using str. it simply expands your options.
this means that you can make a strength based acrobat, still pick up the qstaff damage line and maintain a synergy with the barbarian rage.
what it really boils down to (damage wise) is that a frenzied barbarian would get frenzy, death frenzy, and an additional x2 multiplier from the tier 5, while the acrobat would get +15% attack speed, +4 attack, +6 damage and +1 threat range +1 crit multiplier with qstaffs.
I still think a full blown frenzy barb would do more damage than an acrobat, I just don't think the margin is as big as you believe.


as far as the Staff of Shadow, that's 1 hp regen per hit. i am currently playing a focused acrobat right now and the Staff was nice at 12, but unreliable for good self healing when you will more than likely take on more damage than getting back hp.

the vampiric effect isn't the main source of healing for the build, but rather an additional source of healing.
between that, the bodyfeeder +15 temp hp & the healing smite, I hope no additional healing would be needed for most of the time, allowing me to save the dragonmarks for tight spots.




Going for faith weapons lets you use any faith weapon as an implement and it gives enhancement bonuses. that extra spwr will really help boost your strike up so that you're healing to full every 15 secs when you hit it.

I completely forgot about the implement thing. still not sure faith weapons are worth it, but I'll give them a 2nd look.

[Lauf]

Did you thought about barb14/cle6? Bursts, divine healing, and restoring full health (unfortunately 10min CD).

I have, but even with a full investment in meta-magics for improving bursts (empower, empower healing, maximize, quicken) they were still only healing for meager amounts when tested on lammania. So I ended up reluctantly giving up on the idea, and just went for the healing smite.

[Qhualor]

That's not quite accurate. Acrobat allows you to use your dex with qstaffs, but it in no way prevents you from using str. it simply expands your options.
this means that you can make a strength based acrobat, still pick up the qstaff damage line and maintain a synergy with the barbarian rage.
what it really boils down to (damage wise) is that a frenzied barbarian would get frenzy, death frenzy, and an additional x2 multiplier from the tier 5, while the acrobat would get +15% attack speed, +4 attack, +6 damage and +1 threat range +1 crit multiplier with qstaffs.
I still think a full blown frenzy barb would do more damage than an acrobat, I just don't think the margin is as big as you believe.

if you have ever played a barbarian you wouldn't think so. my main is a barb and i can tell you that the margin is considerable.

[Lauf]

if you have ever played a barbarian you wouldn't think so.
Having played several barbs, both to cap and at cap, and with my main well on his way to triple completionist, I guess we'll have to accept that our perceptions are different on this matter. (mind you, we are talking about the heroic levels).

either way, the goal of this thread isn't to min/max a barb's damage, but rather to build a BYOH barb, hopefully without gutting it completely (which I'm guilty of doing... not relishing in it, just can't see a better way of achieving a similar effect within the confines of the class).

still hoping someone has a better idea for a BYOH barb, any improvement on the one I have would be most welcome

[Chai]

Warforged 12 barbarian 8 artificer.

Take arcanotechnician line to tier 3. Put three points into Automated Repairs

Now you have a level 8 dog which follows you around (set on passive) which repairs you (and himself) for 4d4+1 every 6 seconds. UMD an invis scroll onto him every few minutes or so.

Elemental weapons, flame turret, repair wands and spells for topping off. Trapfinding.

If you take this into epics it can repair itself with recon scrolls or heal scrolls (if your amp is higher than 100% where it trumps repair). Ring of the master artificer is a good item.

Doesnt always have to be raged, but when it is it gets +2 to critical multiplier if you take FB to tier 5 and get Focused Wrath. It gets another if you go the OC route.

[Ancient]

with the new trees no longer requiring barbs to kill themselves, I've decided to look into rolling another barb life on my main.
the main problem being that BYOH is a must have for me.

so far the best idea I could come up with is taking halfling for dragonmarks
5 rogue levels for trapping skills and acrobat training (& tier 5) using a bloody staff of shadow (+5, Lesser Vampirism, Life Stealing, Bodyfeeder)
adding 4 fvs levels to the mix for that healing smite goodness, as well as access to meta-magics to amplify the halfling dragonmarks
and that would leave me with 11 barbarian levels

the thing I'm wracking my brains about now is that there simply aren't enough APs to go around... after the racial tree, the warpriest and the acrobat, I'd have very few points left to pour into the barbarian trees.

it'll still be a high-damage high-survivability build, just not sure it would "feel" anything like what you'd expect from a barbarian.

has anyone been able to come up with a decent self healing barb build? preferably something that doesn't require you to chug pots or dismiss rage whenever you need a heal...
I prefer the bloody cleaver to the bloody staff of shadow, but either way... it does a lot to help survival. Combined with uncanny dodge, you can even tank bosses for short bursts.

I would suggest that you expand your plan beyond healing to include survival such as, Blur/Incorporeal/Dodge/Defensive Procs.

In the mid-high teens, saves play a huge role in survival since casters become the primary threat and ship buffs no longer make you immune to spell damage. Consider a DD spell that would hit you for 120 cold damage. If you make the save, that becomes 60 and then ship buffs kick in and reduce that to 30. If you fail the save, the ship buff reduces that to 90. That is three times as much damage. Put simply, if you make the save then you double the value of your ship resists.

[Lauf]

I would suggest that you expand your plan beyond healing to include survival such as, Blur/Incorporeal/Dodge/Defensive Procs.

In the mid-high teens, saves play a huge role in survival since casters become the primary threat

I'm counting on perma-blur + dodge from bracers of wind, incorporeal from cloak of invisibility, to be replaced at later levels by cloak of night (more dodge, too bad they no longer stack) and that's about it. I have a rad2 qstaff I can use instead of the shadow staff, blinding mobs on crits for an additional 50% miss chance. it's not as good for self healing, but I have yet to try it with the healing smite, their combo might be better overall than the shadow + smite.
of course there are always displacement clickies + improved uncanny dodge for tight spots.
am I forgetting anything?

as for saves, at the moment the planner has them at 20/18/12 @ lvl 20.
+2 ship buffs
+3 stat item
+5 resistance item (+10 for reflex from parasitic)
+4 GH

realistically looking at around 34/37/26 (or 23, depending on if I can find a slot for a wisdom item or not)

these can obviously be pushed higher with superior parrying, shroud exceptionals etc... but assuming that I don't bend over backwards, that's what I'm looking at. what do you think?

--- edit
forgot to mention +6 to will saves from bard past lives, making it 32 or 29.

[Exiledtyrant]

I was thinking you could splash 7-8 wizard for zombie barb. you would still get greater rage and the zombie form + improved shrouding would enable you to still maintain a decent decent con and str bonus. You could heal with death auras and the meta magic feats would pretty much be covered by the wizard bonus feats. It looks like you would need extend, heighten, maximize and empower to make the most of the auras to heal you. I'm not sure if they stack but I've heard pale masters get like 30-60+ every 2 seconds healing from the auras even at lower levels. You would also get extra hp and a 25 prr base just from having zombie on with improved shrouding. the occult slayer prr and the ravager prr for 15 and your looking at a 40 prr base before armor comes into play. you'd easily hit 60 prr even in just medium with a 10 blue gem and a set of medium armor perhaps 70 in heavy if you sunk a feat and that's in heroic levels.

All you would need is 12 points in int and then you could use a +4 int enhancement spell and never have to worry about casting again. I havent fleshed this idea out a alot but how I see it. zombie barb would have most of the stats gaps filled and could choose to delve into using barb rages and only heal with death auras making the frenzied barb basically a free tree or you could only use the rage spell and use sleet storm for trash and build some type of backstabbing perma blind barb. I am still really busy with my melee but there is potential to make a neg healing barb with easy up keep auras if rage doesn't turn them off.

[Trillea]

I was thinking you could splash 7-8 wizard for zombie barb. you would still get greater rage and the zombie form + improved shrouding would enable you to still maintain a decent decent con and str bonus. You could heal with death auras and the meta magic feats would pretty much be covered by the wizard bonus feats. It looks like you would need extend, heighten, maximize and empower to make the most of the auras to heal you. I'm not sure if they stack but I've heard pale masters get like 30-60+ every 2 seconds healing from the auras even at lower levels. You would also get extra hp and a 25 prr base just from having zombie on with improved shrouding. the occult slayer prr and the ravager prr for 15 and your looking at a 40 prr base before armor comes into play. you'd easily hit 60 prr even in just medium with a 10 blue gem and a set of medium armor perhaps 70 in heavy if you sunk a feat and that's in heroic levels.

All you would need is 12 points in int and then you could use a +4 int enhancement spell and never have to worry about casting again. I havent fleshed this idea out a alot but how I see it. zombie barb would have most of the stats gaps filled and could choose to delve into using barb rages and only heal with death auras making the frenzied barb basically a free tree or you could only use the rage spell and use sleet storm for trash and build some type of backstabbing perma blind barb. I am still really busy with my melee but there is potential to make a neg healing barb with easy up keep auras if rage doesn't turn them off.

The attack and movement speed decrease for zombie form would make this completely unfun IMHO.

[Exiledtyrant]

you would have access to haste could make it a bit better. or you could find some way to build around vampire instead. it's a rough layout honestly I'm sure there are ways around it. the main focus is constant healing from death auras making the frenzy tree 100% free + the ability to stack a lot of temp hp due to all your con boosts.

I don't know if the death auras stack or how high they get per tick however. I would have to find out how much they heal at 300 spell power and 20% crit chance. something very easy to make happen with empower, maximize, 20 or so ap sunk into pale master for negative amp , health , prr etc and a custom trinket with negative sp +14-15% crit chance.

[Lauf]

Warforged 12 barbarian 8 artificer.

Take arcanotechnician line to tier 3. Put three points into Automated Repairs

Now you have a level 8 dog which follows you around (set on passive) which repairs you (and himself) for 4d4+1 every 6 seconds. UMD an invis scroll onto him every few minutes or so.


I loved the idea of a barbarian being followed by a small invisible dog :) reminded me of minsc and his hamster.

the good: the repairs supply better overall healing than the smite
the bad: no way to increase the amount repaired, and no way of getting a big repair when u need one. unlike the halfling dragonmarks.
the ugly: flamestrikes, cleaves, cometfalls, fireballs and lightning bolts directed at you, and one small invisible level 8 dog with his puny hps by your side ... all amount to one dead little doggy, and no more heals for his barbarian friend.

I just don't see this working out for any intense content, but a lovely thought

[kazeikan]

Warforged 12 barbarian 8 artificer.

Take arcanotechnician line to tier 3. Put three points into Automated Repairs

Now you have a level 8 dog which follows you around (set on passive) which repairs you (and himself) for 4d4+1 every 6 seconds. UMD an invis scroll onto him every few minutes or so.

Elemental weapons, flame turret, repair wands and spells for topping off. Trapfinding.

If you take this into epics it can repair itself with recon scrolls or heal scrolls (if your amp is higher than 100% where it trumps repair). Ring of the master artificer is a good item.

Doesnt always have to be raged, but when it is it gets +2 to critical multiplier if you take FB to tier 5 and get Focused Wrath. It gets another if you go the OC route.

That is a horrendous build. You would have to dismiss rage every time you wanted to scroll, wand, do traps, or cast spells, killing your damage and making it pointless to splash. A lvl 8 dog would be one shot in epic and prob most heroic elites and it doesn't matter if it is invised because of aoe damage. Your dog will be healing you for 11 hp every 6 seconds or 110 hp every minute which is kinda useless when scrolls and cocoon does many times that in a matter of seconds. You would probably have to heal the dog to keep it alive more than it can heal you. All cons, no pros. Low damage and low survivability. Stick to trolling.

[sirgog]

As a self-sufficient player, I found the least painful way to do a Barb life is Bard 8, Barb 10, Fighter 2.

Bard 8 gives you displacement, haste and cure serious from SP. (You need Extend).
Barb 10 gets you the PL. It also gives you enough of an HP buffer that you don't need healing during your rages often, and you get all the other Barb goodies (better DPS than more Bard levels, for instance).
Ftr2 gives you the feats you need to make it work.

Levelling order is
1 Bard
2 Barb
3-9 Bard
10-11 Fighter
12-20 Barbarian (start using rages more here).


I don't expect this would perform well in later epic content but if you just want the past lives, this build is quite strong in those levels.

[sephiroth1084]

As a self-sufficient player, I found the least painful way to do a Barb life is Bard 8, Barb 10, Fighter 2.

Bard 8 gives you displacement, haste and cure serious from SP. (You need Extend).
Barb 10 gets you the PL. It also gives you enough of an HP buffer that you don't need healing during your rages often, and you get all the other Barb goodies (better DPS than more Bard levels, for instance).
Ftr2 gives you the feats you need to make it work.

Levelling order is
1 Bard
2 Barb
3-9 Bard
10-11 Fighter
12-20 Barbarian (start using rages more here).


I don't expect this would perform well in later epic content but if you just want the past lives, this build is quite strong in those levels.
I can attest to him not being a complete gimp. :D

[sirgog]

I can attest to him not being a complete gimp. :D

I would not trust a word Elochka says.

[Qhualor]

That is a horrendous build. You would have to dismiss rage every time you wanted to scroll, wand, do traps, or cast spells, killing your damage and making it pointless to splash. A lvl 8 dog would be one shot in epic and prob most heroic elites and it doesn't matter if it is invised because of aoe damage. Your dog will be healing you for 11 hp every 6 seconds or 110 hp every minute which is kinda useless when scrolls and cocoon does many times that in a matter of seconds. You would probably have to heal the dog to keep it alive more than it can heal you. All cons, no pros. Low damage and low survivability. Stick to trolling.

should check out what the OP wants to build than come back have a chat.

[kazeikan]

should check out what the OP wants to build than come back have a chat.

Notice how I didn't criticize the OP? Vampirism and healing smite should work while raged. Spells do not and depending on a lvl 8 pet is even more ridiculous. Just read that last line again. Depending on a lvl 8 pet when you're lvl 20 and beyond hoping it won't die by invising it. The goal for op is not soloing EE and I'm not being elitist by proposing a must play build spec. Even for general grouping in epics and heroics, that 12 barb 8 arti build is horrible advice.

I wouldn't tell my worst enemy to suffer that build.

Speaking of which, hey Ferrum/Elochka, I have this awesome barb/arti build you should try.

[AtomicMew]

Speaking of which, hey Ferrum/Elochka, I have this awesome barb/arti build you should try.

Shr pls.

[sephiroth1084]

I would not trust a word Elochka says.
I don't know what you're talking about, Numot.



Speaking of which, hey Ferrum/Elochka, I have this awesome barb/arti build you should try.

OH YEAH!!!!!!??!?!?!?!11!? TELL ME ALL ABOUT IT! TOTALLY DOWN FOR THAT!


I already know how squishy an under-level pup is. I sometimes summon my wee lil' doggy on my 12 monk/6 ranger/2 artificer to pull a lever somewhere, and find he's died before he even gets to the switch. That absolutely sounds like a reliable source of self-healing.

[kazeikan]

Hey OP,

Have you respecced? The interesting thing would be to test if doublestrike works on ameliorating strike. Getting enough doublestrike for 4 procs would be awesome. You don't even have to maintain a constant high doublstrike. Use your rogue or other doublestrike boosts before you smite. I haven't tested this but in theory it should work. Also max out your heal and positive spellpower if you haven't. Should get more out of each proc. GL with your byoh barb.

[Aviya]

Potions and especially silver flames potions are the only way to build a true BYOH barbarian.

During heroic levels you can heal using CSW potions from house kundarak and a hireling. It is super easy if you don't zerg like mad.
Just aggro a few mobs and you 'll be fine.
As soon as you get to lvl 14 you should be able to access to silver flame potions.
Using them I was able to solo EE Gianthold Tor without hirelings --> https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422315-Barbarian-EE-Gianthold-Tor
I used something like 30, max 40 SF potions. I don't remember the exact count because it was before U19

To summarize: what makes a BYOH barb is not the build, but how smart you play and a few plats in potions.

[Stoner81]

Barb/Rogue/Druid split would seem to cover this I think...

Rogue for traps skills and bonues with quarter staffs, Druid would give meta's, some spells depending on level split and the level 1 spell for boosting damage with quarterstaffs. Finally Barb for the rest for the levels for your past life feat.

My Barb life I did 11 Barb/7 Bard/2 Rogue, being able to cast Blur and Displacement go a long long way to keeping yourself upright, getting to the higher levels damage output suffered a bit but my feat selection wasn't great either, he is currently in epics grinding out some ED's before TR and his damage has shot up due to better weapons and some more feats here and there.

Stoner81.

[psykopeta]

byoh barb has some troubles:

OS- swap weapon for scroll and say bye to weapon bond and lots of stuff tied to it(so you won't ever swap weapon, even if need to go bath lol)

FB- well, rages that once faded give exhaustion (lesser restoration pots) and more rage charges, prolly the best option, unless u notice ur hp is going down, try using scroll, once, again and "oh damm forgot to dismiss rage!!" sooo dead (2nd dead in topd of noob's dead, only behind the "forgot to turn undead form on")

Ravager - i really hate this tree, but... if can't use weapon bond nor rage...sadly looks like the clever option to allow scrolling/cocoon

actually on 1st barb life and will try every tree, so choose ur tree and get a build for it, but whatever u do, don't ignore evade, my 18-2 fighter slashing machine suffers soloing EN DA loooooooooool (u know, can heal only using cocoon, doing the OS life, don't swap weapon!!XD)

also a byoh toon doesn't mean deep splashing, just make stronger what won't gimp you

[Lauf]

The interesting thing would be to test if doublestrike works on ameliorating strike. You don't even have to maintain a constant high doublstrike. Use your rogue or other doublestrike boosts before you smite. I haven't tested this but in theory it should work. GL with your byoh barb.

I have tested it when it was just released, and iirc it did work on doublestrikes. another point in favor of going for the qstaff option (+25% doublestrike).
and thanks :)


Potions and especially silver flames potions are the only way to build a true BYOH barbarian. and a hireling. It is super easy if you don't zerg like mad.

unfortunately I enjoy playing like a barbarian would, running into groups and cleaving away... at lower levels pots are just fine, but I have to admit silver flame pots are not something I enjoy using, especially when trying to heal while under magical attacks... the -10 to dex and -10 to saves makes them a bitter pill to swallow.


Using them I was able to solo EE Gianthold Tor without hirelings --> https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422315-Barbarian-EE-Gianthold-Tor
I used something like 30, max 40 SF potions. I don't remember the exact count because it was before U19

quite an accomplishment... did u melee or mainly used pinion?



Barb/Rogue/Druid split would seem to cover this I think...

Rogue for traps skills and bonues with quarter staffs, Druid would give meta's, some spells depending on level split and the level 1 spell for boosting damage with quarterstaffs. Finally Barb for the rest for the levels for your past life feat.


thanks for the idea :)
we obviously agree on the rogue levels and the barb levels, the main question is if a druid splash would be better than a fvs.
healing spells (from both) are a moot point, assuming I'd be either raged or madstoned most of the time. but regardless, both have healing spells so that's a wash.
fvs would give access to the warpriest tree, with some added AC, hp and PRR, and last but not least the healing smite
druid would give access to Nature's warrior, which has some nice positive spell power boosters, hide of the crocodile (5min cooldown), and a few offensive enhancements.

seems to me that if we're trying to get the damage higher, going barb over druid would be a better choice, and if we're trying to build something that's as self sufficient as possible, going fvs would be a better choice.
druid, as far as I can tell, seems to fall between the 2 options. and as it doesn't offer any in-combat healing, its main benefit would be the added positive spell power, increasing the effectiveness of the halfling heals.



byoh barb has some troubles, but whatever u do, don't ignore evade

no worries there ;D
evasion on a melee is something I try to include whenever possible. and the weaker the self healing, the more I invest in it.


also a byoh toon doesn't mean deep splashing
never said it did :) on the contrary, I said this was the best option I could come up with, but I do hope to find a better one.


just make stronger what won't gimp you
no idea what you were trying to say there, or how that relates to BYOH. Could you explain?

[Wipey]

Can't splash pally so evasion is not really worth it and other saves are gonna suck too so might as well chug SF to victory ?
Max dodge, prr, blurry, ghostly, move smart, get rich. Max heal amp.
Pop displace for tough fights. Spell absorb, fom on gear. Worship UMD.
Pray when near too many casters ?

You aren't gonna dismiss rage and pop cocoon / scroll every 5 secs, are you ?

[Aviya]

Can't splash pally so evasion is not really worth it and other saves are gonna suck too so might as well chug SF to victory ?
Max dodge, prr, blurry, ghostly, move smart, get rich. Max heal amp.
Pop displace for tough fights. Spell absorb, fom on gear. Worship UMD.
This



unfortunately I enjoy playing like a barbarian would, running into groups and cleaving away... at lower levels pots are just fine, but I have to admit silver flame pots are not something I enjoy using, especially when trying to heal while under magical attacks... the -10 to dex and -10 to saves makes them a bitter pill to swallow.

Do you think a barbarian has any way to save a dex or wis save check even without SF potions malus?
FOM, Deathward and fireshield are more important than saves and the DPS of a barbarian can kill stuff before they can cause you troubles.


quite an accomplishment... did u melee or mainly used pinion?

I use Pinion for 20 seconds every 2 minutes (aka Manyshot). Rest of the time is Cleaver or ESOS

[Chai]

I loved the idea of a barbarian being followed by a small invisible dog :) reminded me of minsc and his hamster.

the good: the repairs supply better overall healing than the smite
the bad: no way to increase the amount repaired, and no way of getting a big repair when u need one. unlike the halfling dragonmarks.
the ugly: flamestrikes, cleaves, cometfalls, fireballs and lightning bolts directed at you, and one small invisible level 8 dog with his puny hps by your side ... all amount to one dead little doggy, and no more heals for his barbarian friend.

I just don't see this working out for any intense content, but a lovely thought

Its worked for a couple lives now, because by the time mobs really damage the character hard, im no longer relying on the pet for any large source of healing, and can umd repair or heal scrolls - whichever one I have more amp for - and with amp, scroll amp 75%, and the spells with a decent amount of universal spell power + repair item, i get pretty good heals out of those - just as good as any other toon who uses UMD as a heal source + repair spells. Content short of ETk endfight style intensity was easily completible at a reasonable rate that made the life go by much faster than a regular barb life would.

[voodoogroves]

Love the dog idea.

Also a fan of the Bard mix - sustaining song can be very, very handy.

[maddmatt70]

it would be lackluster considering a barbarian and the enhancements are focused on dps and str. an acrobat is focused with q-staff damage and dex. you would need to be a dex build which totally makes barb not an ideal choice.

as far as the Staff of Shadow, that's 1 hp regen per hit. i am currently playing a focused acrobat right now and the Staff was nice at 12, but unreliable for good self healing when you will more than likely take on more damage than getting back hp.

I disagree. Acrobats do not have to be dex based at all and in fact I prefer strength especially with divine might in DDO.

[maddmatt70]

I have, but even with a full investment in meta-magics for improving bursts (empower, empower healing, maximize, quicken) they were still only healing for meager amounts when tested on lammania. So I ended up reluctantly giving up on the idea, and just went for the healing smite.

I like the concept of radiant servant aura with a lot of amp on a barbarian. The barbarian would still need something more though. On my human cleric with no paladin past lives I get over 70 a tick. You would have to do radiant servant 5 though which is a big dps loss. Well what have you.

[Chai]

That is a horrendous build. You would have to dismiss rage every time you wanted to scroll, wand, do traps, or cast spells, killing your damage and making it pointless to splash. A lvl 8 dog would be one shot in epic and prob most heroic elites and it doesn't matter if it is invised because of aoe damage. Your dog will be healing you for 11 hp every 6 seconds or 110 hp every minute which is kinda useless when scrolls and cocoon does many times that in a matter of seconds. You would probably have to heal the dog to keep it alive more than it can heal you.

Its not dependant on rage in the first place. It doesnt kill your damage much at all really. Previous to the enhancement pass we were only getting +1 to crit multi until level 18 when we got the other 2, and that was if on a pure barb. The 2 splash builds had to wait til 20. We had no issue plowing through the same content then. Why would we now, after the great ghostbaning of DDO.

Ive already done a couple lives on it, and it works quite well for netting past lives. Ive already addressed the dog issue by pointing out twice now that by the time Im at a level where the dog dies all the time Im not using it for healing much anymore anyhow. Scrolls and cocoon are both things this build can have, and its hilariously easy to push heal amp up even on a WF - and you also can recon off scrolls when needed.

THis is especially hilarious right here.

You would have to dismiss rage every time you wanted to scroll, wand, do traps, or cast spells, killing your damage and making it pointless to splash

If you believe this fallacy to be true, you shouldnt be in any barbarian self healing thread, because dismissing rage is true for any barb who wants to self heal with anything other than pots. People who think barbarians damage output is nailed to having to be raged 100% of the time are living in the past. Youre prob one of those people who said the same stuff about melee artys, until you saw the videos of people rolling EEs with them.


All cons, no pros. Low damage and low survivability. Stick to trolling.

If you dont see the pros of being immune to neg levels, holds, having an aoe answer for undead, viable THF melee, both cleaves and PA, repair while ignoring curses, and endless fuscilade, thats not my issue. Barbarian past lives were super easy to pick up using this.

[Lauf]

I like the concept of radiant servant aura with a lot of amp on a barbarian. The barbarian would still need something more though. On my human cleric with no paladin past lives I get over 70 a tick. You would have to do radiant servant 5 though which is a big dps loss. Well what have you.

while the concept is nice, it is inherently flawed because the healing you receive from your aura and bursts is directly influenced by your cleric level (1hp for every 3 cleric levels, rounded down).
this means that with 6 cleric levels your aura would heal for a base of 2 hp a tick. even with 200 positive spell power, +75 from empower healing, that's 5.5 hp a tick, rounded down to 5.
lets say we go all out for heal amps, picking up 30% racial (and further gimping the build, as we're now fully invested in RaS and Racial trees, neither of which does any damage) 10 + 20 + 30 from items. this will net a total of 2.2308 multiplier to incoming healing.
so 5 hp x 2.23 heal amp = 11 hp a tick (rounded down)

mind you, if you have 200 positive spell power, you're likely at level 20+
so these aren't the numbers you can expect to see while leveling. these are the "lets be extremely generous" numbers.
and as you can see, even when assuming we're going all out for it (fully investing in 2 trees to make it work), it's still a far cry from the 70 hp a tick you're seeing on your cleric.

like I said earlier, that was my original direction as well, but you'd have to give up a whole lot and get very little in return (fully amped bursts would heal for less than the healing smite would, require multiple feats and have a limited number of uses.
which is why I ended up opting for just 4 divine levels in the build; the healing smite is really the only useful self healing tool from the divine box.

[tracimatrix]

Maybe I am out of touch, but my pure OS barbarian, 2nd life, human, self heals and loves the OS. Using a metalline lifestealer with vamp bond, wearing my cove armor that frequently pops a +30 hp demonic shield, elemental def kicks in a +25 hp often, I hunt in slayer areas without ever needing to pop a potion, and sometimes see a temp +90 hp buffer with the above adds. My standing dr is better than a perma stoneskin, human healing amp makes popping a cheap cure serious pot for a decent amount while on the run with no need to break rage. The OS tree is all about survival, making the barb durable with a nice cap payout for remaining pure as well as the goodies you want from a pure barb, ton of hp, expanded crit rage, other 2 trees to get more oomph, plus its nice casters are often falling at my feet prone waiting to be cut down, ty arcane encumberance . People out trick themselves with multi classing sometimes.

[kazeikan]

Its not dependant on rage in the first place. It doesnt kill your damage much at all really. Previous to the enhancement pass we were only getting +1 to crit multi until level 18 when we got the other 2, and that was if on a pure barb.

Ive already done a couple lives on it, and it works quite well for netting past lives. Ive already addressed the dog issue by pointing out twice now that by the time Im at a level where the dog dies all the time Im not using it for healing much anymore anyhow. Scrolls and cocoon are both things this build can have, and its hilariously easy to push heal amp up even on a WF - and you also can recon off scrolls when needed.

If you believe this fallacy to be true, you shouldnt be in any barbarian self healing thread, because this is true for any barb who wants to self heal with anything other than pots. People who think barbarians damage output is nailed to having to be raged 100% of the time are living in the past. Youre prob one of those people who said the same stuff about melee artys, until you saw the videos of people rolling EEs with them.

Except of course you told OP you would be in FB tree, and the crit multiplier you're touting only works when you're raged.
Focused Wrath: While raging, increases the critical multiplier of all weapons you use by 1/2 when you roll a natural 19 or 20 that is a confirmed crit hit.
Hey it's your build not mine, but ok be in FB and don't rage and crawl through your tr lives.

Now you're gonna argue but but... you can be in ravager except critical rage only works while you're raged. Lastly you're gonna advocate for the inferior OS tree with Bond of Retribution: While at Weapon Bond 120+ and below 50% health, you gain +1 critical damage multiplier on attack rolls of 19-20. Except of course whenever you switch to scroll you lose all your bonds and it takes forever to build them up. You could argue not raging or scrolling in OS and using repair serious damage except of course you would just be combining inferior damage with inferior healing. Great job!

What's the point of arti if your focus to healing becomes in your words scroll healing and cocoon. Any toon can get cocoon and any toon can get umd to heal scroll without a deep arti splash.
You addressed the dog issue once after I posted, so it's pretty much backtracking and shows how useless 8 arti is.

Pushing the rage issue aside, what does 8 arti really give you. Elemental weapon gives you 3.5 damage per swing but that is 3.5 damage easily replaceable splashing something else. Also in a group or raid, elemental weapon would be superseded by deadly if there is any other arti in group. Flame turret is awesome ... at lvl 8. You're better off cleaving. op's rogue splash is much better. It let's him increase his scroll effectiveness and do traps while also giving evasion and sneak attack. Also for him the acrobat line is germane to his build. Your 8 levels of arti is useless.

If you believe this fallacy of a build is actually good in any way, you shouldn't be breathing. You're prob one of those people who still thinks the earth is still flat, and no I've always had one toon that was not a pure melee, whether it be melee fvs, jukaw, or juggernaut.

Please tell us your toons and server oh great one so we can receive more of your enlightenment. I don't frequent the forums that much so you might have given them before, but I don't imagine you're the type to have the balls to list them when you troll.

[Chai]

Except of course you told OP you would be in FB tree, and the crit multiplier you're touting only works when you're raged.

]Focused Wrath: While raging, increases the critical multiplier of all weapons you use by 1/2 when you roll a natural 19 or 20 that is a confirmed crit hit.
Hey it's your build not mine, but ok be in FB and don't rage and crawl through your tr lives.

Yeap, and in THE SAME POST clarified that it doesnt need to be raged all the time to be effective. Reading. Its awesome.


Now you're gonna argue but but... you can be in ravager except critical rage only works while you're raged.

Nope. Ima pull your card on reading and point to where the same post your arguing against states it doesnt need to be raged to be effective.


Lastly you're gonna advocate for the inferior OS tree with Bond of Retribution: While at Weapon Bond 120+ and below 50% health, you gain +1 critical damage multiplier on attack rolls of 19-20. Except of course whenever you switch to scroll you lose all your bonds and it takes forever to build them up. You could argue not raging or scrolling in OS and using repair serious damage except of course you would just be combining inferior damage with inferior healing. Great job!

Nope. Now youre just strawmanning. I wouldnt advocate that.


What's the point of arti if your focus to healing becomes in your words scroll healing and cocoon. Any toon can get cocoon and any toon can get umd to heal scroll without a deep arti splash.
You addressed the dog issue once after I posted, so it's pretty much backtracking and shows how useless 8 arti is.

I addressed the dog issue well BEFORE you posted. Again, reading, its awesome. Strike 2.


Pushing the rage issue aside, what does 8 arti really give you. Elemental weapon gives you 3.5 damage per swing but that is 3.5 damage easily replaceable splashing something else. Also in a group or raid, elemental weapon would be superseded by deadly if there is any other arti in group. Flame turret is awesome ... at lvl 8. You're better off cleaving. op's rogue splash is much better. It let's him increase his scroll effectiveness and do traps while also giving evasion and sneak attack. Also for him the acrobat line is germane to his build. Your 8 levels of arti is useless.

* levels of arty gives you UMD, weapon buff, 20 point resists without having to run back to the boat, 2 more feats, Self healing with repair spells, flame turret for cruise control through low and mid level content. Youre calling this useless? I dont think you understand artys.

Youre arguing my build sucks as a self healer, and then youre arguing for a rogue splash over an arty splash. Less self healing (I can UMD all the same stuff he can AND I have spells). You are now directly contradicting yourself. Hilarious.


If you believe this fallacy of a build is actually good in any way, you shouldn't be breathing. You're prob one of those people who still thinks the earth is still flat, and no I've always had one toon that was not a pure melee, whether it be melee fvs, jukaw, or juggernaut.

Your ad hominem insults in leiu of logic are indicating lack of ammo to banter with on this issue, because if you had any refutation of what I stated, youd have posted it instead of ad hominem. Try going off road a bit rather than building the bandwagon already tested and proven FOTM toons everyone else already has in their stable. While doing so, wake up and smell the new enhancement system. Check your cookie cutters at the door.


Please tell us your toons and server oh great one so we can receive more of your enlightenment. I don't frequent the forums that much so you might have given them before, but I don't imagine you're the type to have the balls to list them when you troll.

No need to have you trolling me in game as well as on the forums.

[Lauf]

Maybe I am out of touch, but my pure OS barbarian, 2nd life, human, self heals and loves the OS. Using a metalline lifestealer with vamp bond, wearing my cove armor that frequently pops a +30 hp demonic shield, elemental def kicks in a +25 hp often, I hunt in slayer areas without ever needing to pop a potion, and sometimes see a temp +90 hp buffer with the above adds. My standing dr is better than a perma stoneskin, human healing amp makes popping a cheap cure serious pot for a decent amount while on the run with no need to break rage. The OS tree is all about survival, making the barb durable with a nice cap payout for remaining pure as well as the goodies you want from a pure barb, ton of hp, expanded crit rage, other 2 trees to get more oomph, plus its nice casters are often falling at my feet prone waiting to be cut down, ty arcane encumberance . People out trick themselves with multi classing sometimes.

Thank you for sharing
this is the kind of post I was hoping to see when I started the thread; kudos to you sir! :)

still not sure that the increased survivability of the OS = self healing, but you've definitely given me some food for thought, and that's all I could really ask for.

[Wipey]

Barbarian past lives were super easy to pick up using this.
Maybe I am mistaken but OP and thread was more about levels 20+ no ?

For getting through heroics whatever would work ( 10 barb/ 8 bard/ 2 rogue, 10 barb / 10 cleric, heck even 10 sorc )

I think you are talking about heroics and Kazeikan more about 20+ viability.

[kazeikan]

Yeap, and in THE SAME POST clarified that it doesnt need to be raged all the time to be effective. Reading. Its awesome.

Do you realize how expensive tier 5 is? Do you realize most the enhancements are to better rage? Do you realize most of barb damage is tied to rage? Do you realize your telling OP just might as well not roll a barb? Using your brain. It's awesome.


Nope. Ima pull your card on reading and point to where the same post your arguing against states it doesnt need to be raged to be effective.

Yes, it does.



Nope. Now youre just strawmanning. I wouldnt advocate that.

I addressed the dog issue well BEFORE you posted. Again, reading, its awesome. Strike 2.

You had 1 post before I posted. Nowhere did you say you were not gonna use the dog beyond lvl 20 or matter of fact beyond lvl 14 where it's use will be more limited. You said there were alternatives in Epics. Arguing is hard, so the other guy must be using strawman, ad hominem, red herring tactics!



* levels of arty gives you UMD, weapon buff, 20 point resists without having to run back to the boat, 2 more feats, Self healing with repair spells, flame turret for cruise control through low and mid level content. Youre calling this useless? I dont think you understand artys.

While I won't argue flame turret is awesome for lower levels, the OP will spend the majority of his time in higher levels especially if he's TRing. Considering the xp curve is heavily shifted toward the back-end any gimp build can get you through the beginning. Self healing in the early levels is enough with cure or repair pots from house k vendors. It is not the early levels where you have to worry about healing.

You would prob advocate splashing arti first to get flame turret and the rest. While it may make the beginning levels smoother, where raging is not necessary since it is not yet boosted by enhancements, it will lose most of its effectiveness quickly. While artis are much easier levelers at low level with crossbows, traps, and flame turret. At higher levels with only 8 lvls of arti, they don't cut it. I often splash 1 lvl of arti on my tr lives for traps and crossbow at early levels. Flame turret alone does not warrant a deep arti splash. Much better healing options and sufficient umd can also be had. I don't think you understand this game or maybe you should view it holistically and not from a point of a fresh off the boat newbie.


Youre arguing my build sucks as a self healer, and then youre arguing for a rogue splash over an arty splash. Less self healing (I can UMD all the same stuff he can AND I have spells). You are now directly contradicting yourself. Hilarious.

I never argued the rogue splash is a better healer. I said what he would gain would be more relevant to his interests i.e. quarterstaff build. Reading is hard. Man I feel sorry for Wisconsin public schools.



Your ad hominem insults in leiu of logic are indicating lack of ammo to banter with on this issue, because if you had any refutation of what I stated, youd have posted it instead of ad hominem. Try going off road a bit rather than building the bandwagon already tested and proven FOTM toons everyone else already has in their stable. While doing so, wake up and smell the new enhancement system. Check your cookie cutters at the door.

And. Here. We. Go. I've read some of your posts before. It always devolve into no logic blah blah, you only play FOTM toons blah blah ****. Have you noticed I supported and advised on OP's build? No, it doesn't play into your narrow mindset that people that argue with you must be FOTM, cookie cutter players. I predicted you would resort to this which is why I preemptively wrote that I do not advocate any cookie cutter or FOTM builds for OP in previous posts. Reading is hard.

Also I used the exact same sentence structure as your first reply. So while I don't think either was too insulting, you might want to check yourself with the ad hominem posts before crying wolf. My 1st reply said that build was horrible. I did not question your intelligence or reading level. Though that can be arguably implied if you read really, really deep into it.



No need to have you trolling me in game as well as on the forums.

If I trolled you in game you can squelch me or report me and have me banned. The true reason is you know your forum gibberish and persona does not reflect well on your in game playing.

[Chai]

Maybe I am mistaken but OP and thread was more about levels 20+ no ?

The op is "rolling another barb life on his main".


For getting through heroics whatever would work ( 10 barb/ 8 bard/ 2 rogue, 10 barb / 10 cleric, heck even 10 sorc )

I think you are talking about heroics and Kazeikan more about 20+ viability.

He was talking about anyone who doesn't agree with him about build decisions doesn't deserve to breathe, which is the kind of insult that can land someone hiding behind their computer in some real hot water if theyre not careful. We already had this discussion on these forums recently about these kinds of expressions, and the thread got shut down real quick due to the level of passion the debate on such antics took on in such a short period of time.

He can talk about 20+ all he wants. There are a TON of 12 melee / 8 caster or hybrid builds running around, as well as the evasion version 12 melee 6 caster 2 rogue or monk (in this case rogue due to barb not allowed to be lawful). It makes being what would otherwise be a pure melee a lot less painful in this current atmosphere of enforced byoh while still being able to take advantage of most of the desired class benefits.

[Chai]

Yes, it does.



Nope, and this is where you lose all cred, because by saying this, you have indicated severe lack of knowledge about the current state of building in DDO. There are a lot of situations (well a lot of the same type of situation) in fact, where being raged is LESS dps for that build, and I even told you what those were, and what my answer was for it. Of course, since you cannot refute this, you simply gloss over it, as well as all the other plusses (which you hilariously claimed the class split has none of) I posted.




If I trolled you in game you can squelch me or report me and have me banned. The true reason is you know your forum gibberish does not reflect well on your in game playing.


That can happen on the forums as well. Keep posting insults like your cute little "shouldn't be allowed to breathe" rant, and ill just report each of them from now on. Each time ad hominem is posted instead of something that actually contributes to the discussion, its an indication of lack of anything to contribute in the first place. If said contribution existed, it would have been posted instead. Its obvious due to what you posted that you have a personal agenda to disagree, as each post is more personal banter while glossing over each characteristic of my class split you have no answer for. If you didn't have a personal agenda to disagree, an honest assessment of the build would have been to post the plusses and minuses, but instead you attempted to hilariously claim that the build had no plusses. Completely transparent.

As far as your hilarious insult to Wisconsin, D&D was invented in Wisconsin. Youd get LOLed right off a con table with these kinds of antics.

[Chai]

12 barb contributes a barb life. Read the OP. LOL

Thank you for proving my point. I literally posted what youd do, and you did it. They need to sell a joystick for this kind of control. Class dismissed.

[kazeikan]

Thank you for proving my point. Class dismissed.

If you ever taught a class, everyone would get A's even if they didn't show up. Thank you for giving up on that abomination.

This was OP's request:

has anyone been able to come up with a decent self healing barb build? preferably something that doesn't require you to chug pots or dismiss rage whenever you need a heal...

READING!!!! I already said why the benefits of 8 arti would be ineffective at middle to higher levels which the OP would be in just a couple of hours. Repair serious damage is not enough of an incentive to trump rage especially when OP specifically stated a build that preferably did not dismiss rage.

Cliff notes:
Barb rage > repair serious spell

flame turret does not scale as you level, becomes useless.

UMD are not exclusive to artis

[sirgog]

This thread has gotten interesting!

I repeat my suggestion for past life purposes only of Barb at level 1, Bard 2 to 9, Ftr at 10 and 11, then Barb all the way. Take extend. Optimal weapons are Carnifex early, then, from best to worst: 1) Cloudburst upgraded 2) SOS 3) Cloudburst without upgrade 4) Lit 2 falchion

96 second Hastes and Displacements, good AoE melee DPS, and the ability to dismiss rage and heal from SP when you have to. But with Displacement, that isn't all that often.

[Chai]

This thread has gotten interesting!

I repeat my suggestion for past life purposes only of Barb at level 1, Bard 2 to 9, Ftr at 10 and 11, then Barb all the way. Take extend. Optimal weapons are Carnifex early, then, from best to worst: 1) Cloudburst upgraded 2) SOS 3) Cloudburst without upgrade 4) Lit 2 falchion

96 second Hastes and Displacements, good AoE melee DPS, and the ability to dismiss rage and heal from SP when you have to. But with Displacement, that isn't all that often.

Ran up a few lives on something similar a long time ago, in the age when warchanter gave extra barbarian rage, and displacement could be used on other party members as well.

[Lauf]

This thread has gotten interesting!

I repeat my suggestion for past life purposes only of Barb at level 1, Bard 2 to 9, Ftr at 10 and 11, then Barb all the way. Take extend.

If by interesting you mean plagued by petty squabbles, then yes it certainly has become that.

I was wondering about your suggested build, which feats would you take?
because it seems to me that even if going down the bard route, the build could benefit from 2 rogue levels more than it would from 2 fighter ones.

[Kalevor]

Hello,
-to the OP: i think a pure barb or maybe a split with 2 levels of fighters is a build easy enough for leveling.. everything dies very fast and you only need pots and a hireling (yea, these retards sometimes don't wanna heal you but make you feel less solo...), but of course this is the less funny option... Many builds posted are good too, but you need to understand pretty well the class you are using and its benefits... otherwise you are losing dps for no return. Splashing with 5 lvl of rogue and 4 of fvs is a deep splash looking for enhacements seems interesting but this let you out of points to spend in the barb trees...
I like the 8 arti splash, seems fun to run with the healing dog, the bard splash its interesting too, it give u more survival and you don't need to spend too many AP in those trees.


-to Kazeikan: hey mate i see in your signature that you have runned a bunch of lifes with your toons and i imagine that you have experience in the game, but Chai is an experienced player too. So i don't see the need to be disrespectful eachother... just saying...


Cheers,
Kal

[Lauf]

Splashing with 5 lvl of rogue and 4 of fvs is a deep splash looking for enhacements seems interesting but this let you out of points to spend in the barb trees...
I like the 8 arti splash, seems fun to run with the healing dog, the bard splash its interesting too, it give u more survival and you don't need to spend too many AP in those trees.


I think you've summed it up nicely; going for an acrobat/warpriest/dragonmarked halfling barbarian wouldn't really be a barbarian in the true sense of the word. it would have (while not topping the charts in any) good saves, trapping ability, good dps and good healing, but it will not really be a barbarian.

however I believe this thread shows that for mid-combat healing as a barb you have only 2 ways to go:
1. chug pots
2. Ameliorating strike (which procs on off-hands/doublestrikes as well)

anything else would either require weapon swaps for scrolls (losing weapon bond) or dismissing rage for spell casting (including the halfling SLAs btw), neither of which is appealing for a barbarian.

so if we were to attempt to create a self healing barbarian that isn't a pot chugger and can self heal in mid-combat without suffering from it, it would seem that a 4 level splash is the best way to go about it, while maxing out healing amp and positive spell power (= going human instead of halfling).

if we were to drop the idea of using a qstaff, acrobat tree won't be needed and would free up a substantial amount of points. this would also mean 5 rogue levels will no longer be needed, 2 would be enough for evasion and trapping skills.
also, now that we've done away with the qstaff, and with Ameliorating strike favoring twf, the clear direction seems to be a human twf 14 barbarian 4 fvs 2 rogue.

when comparing to the original 11/4/5 split, saves won't be quite as good, damage won't be quite as good (assuming OS as main tree), healing options won't be quite as good, but with 41 points to spend on the barbarian trees, the build would have a true barb feel to it, will enjoy the inherent defenses of the OS, and have a better shot at double proc chances with ameliorating strike (was @ 25% from qstaff doublestrike, now will be 80% from off-hand attacks)

[Chai]

Cliff notes:
Barb rage > repair serious spell

You continue to be blinded by this, yet you actually understand due to repeating it ad nauseum that you cant heal or repair with anything other than pots unless youre not raged, which eliminates all spells, due to your obsession with being raged. youre also continuie to lean on this as your argument in a thread where the OP requested a BYOH barbarian, and claim you must be raged to be effective. Still living in 2012.

In 2013, one can level a THF build and have self healing without being raged. You've leveled a Jugg, so you should understand this, yet continue to contradict even yourself by attempting to toss rage in as an obstacle, claim barbarians now days must rely on it, and you post this in a thread where the OP clearly requested a BYOH barbarian.


flame turret does not scale as you level, becomes useless.

Artificers are extremely OP in the low levels. Turret doesn't stop being useful til 15 or so.


UMD are not exclusive to artis

UMD already puts me parallel to anything else you've supported, which ONLY had UMD. Arty also gets easy access to 75% amp on that UMD, and extra caster levels on stuff it uses.




This was OP's request:

has anyone been able to come up with a decent self healing barb build? preferably something that doesn't require you to chug pots or dismiss rage whenever you need a heal...

READING!!!! I already said why the benefits of 8 arti would be ineffective at middle to higher levels which the OP would be in just a couple of hours. Repair serious damage is not enough of an incentive to trump rage especially when OP specifically stated a build that preferably did not dismiss rage.



Repair serious damage, and UMD on scrolls with extra caster levels and 75% scroll amp. Keeping leaving the perks you have no answer for out, and ill continue to pull your card on it.

What you did wasn't reading, it was selective reading. You conveniently left out the part where the OP is rolling up another barb life on their main.

I showed how to not dismiss rage when needing a heal, by not relying on rage as the entire basis for the build in the first place, as you would do.

The reading fail isn't on my part, its on your part - evidenced by conveniently only quoting the portion of any post that appears to support your stance and glossing over everything you have no answer for.

Ive noticed you aren't quoting everyone else who has posted a 12 barb 6 healing class 2 something else or 12 barb 8 something else and pointed out repeatedly 3 times per page how rage is better than the healing the other class brings. This is because you understand these builds are sound. Your attacks toward mine specifically are nothing more than a personal agenda to disagree, likely due to some previous disagreement. If they weren't youd be acting the same way toward anyone else who is proposing healing themselves with magic with a majority of barbarian levels involved, which is every build in the thread save one.

[Chai]

-to Kazeikan: hey mate i see in your signature that you have runned a bunch of lifes with your toons and i imagine that you have experience in the game, but Chai is an experienced player too. So i don't see the need to be disrespectful eachother... just saying...


Cheers,
Kal

I am detecting some personal agenda to disagree underneath the thin veil of build criticism. A few people now have posted builds of 10-12 barb levels + 6-8 healing/repairing class levels, and the only one he repeatedly attacks with this "rage is better than self healing" stuff is mine. And hes not even attacking the build, hes attacking the poster. Ill put him on ignore at this point, as obvious personal agenda toward the poster is obvious. The only thing I had yet to figure out yesterday is which of the 3-4 people who blindly disagree with and troll me on a regular basis he is friends with, but since then, I have figured that out. It all makes sense at this point.

[Lauf]

Ill put him on ignore at this point

thank you. lets move on please.

[kazeikan]

I am detecting some personal agenda to disagree underneath the thin veil of build criticism. A few people now have posted builds of 10-12 barb levels + 6-8 healing/repairing class levels, and the only one he repeatedly attacks with this "rage is better than self healing" stuff is mine. And hes not even attacking the build, hes attacking the poster. Ill put him on ignore at this point, as obvious personal agenda toward the poster is obvious. The only thing I had yet to figure out yesterday is which of the 3-4 people who blindly disagree with and troll me on a regular basis he is friends with, but since then, I have figured that out. It all makes sense at this point.

I only escalated, I did not initiate. Stop being schizo, imagining I have an agenda. Check my previous postings, I've never had a prior argument or even conversation with you.

A few people posted barb/healing class splash, yes. I thought the reasons to not strongly disagree with those build was obvious enough that I didn't address them.

Cleric or Fvs splash gives:
Divine might - 1 min to 2 min depending on AP. The longish duration is conducive to use around rages.
Smite foe - Can further buff with ameliorating strike or weakness
Wand and Scroll mastery - arti, divine, and rogues all posess this line so it is a mute point.

UMD is overkill. Yes, it will be easier to get to no-fail umd with arti levels, but I don't imagine the focus of any player is ease of healing in 2-3 levels. If it was the case, there are still many other alternatives such as skill focus feats, tomes, gear, or past-lives. I'm trying to say the umd gain of arti is useless as a whole since a player does not get further benefits from umd once they hit a certain mark. The higher you go up, other classes can catch up and reach that point. Neither of us can argue for umd as a pro. If all classes can work towards no-fail umd, then it can no longer be considered a pro when arguing for 8 arti. So, please stop reiterating this.

Ok, let's say for the sake of argument, OP will no longer rage ever again. In that case again, the divine splash is equal in benefits if not better, considering they can get cure serious wound a better version of repair serious since it scales with higher healing amp.

I have never said rage is better than self healing. I've said rage is better than what 8 arti can offer for self healing.

I've addressed you multiple times, asking what is the use of 12 barb besides movement speed and some hp if you are not raging. You have not replied. What is the point of taking FB to 5th tier only to rage occasionally so you can use repair critical. Also look at the arti enhancements. What would the OP really take there as a barb beyond haste boost? That is a lot of useless AP that could be wisely spent elsewhere. In your 12 barb 8 arti build, OP would be taking FB to tier 5 but not gaining the benefits with skim choosing from arti tree.

Lastly, stop reusing flame turret as an argument. You've even stated it is effective up to the low teens. Last I checked this game goes up to 28 and eventually 30. If you actually read beyond our petty argument, then you would have seen I agreed with you that arti is OP at lower levels with the combination of crossbow and flame turret. The leveling goes up to 28 while you would be getting the benefits of flame turret from 8-14, a small portion of the game and not worth splashing 8 arti.

Most of this post is made up of what I posted prior. As you can see I eliminated any snarky replies and it is obvious that I've attacked the benefits of 8 arti. If you actually wanted to further support your build you can list the points you want me to address specifically. I can't be expected to go through all your paragraphs and address each and every single point. On the same token, you have not addressed any of mine.

So in closing,

I've addressed my reasoning of why I didn't criticize the divine splash.
I've attempted to show why UMD and cure/repair spells is not arguable as a pro for either of us.
I've said flame turret is only beneficial for a minor portion of the game.
I've asked you what actual benefits 8 arti brings in the enhancement tree and what MAJOR benefits 12 barb brings when it is in FB and not raging.
I've eliminated any snarky comments.

There are many other splashes that offer better benefits. One area we have both not addressed is feats. Arti offer extra ranged feats in case the OP wants to add a ranged element. If this is the case, I will argue that a ranger splash is better. That is however a whole other argument since the OP has not asked for a ranged element.

We may both have selective reading. I've talked about your supposed "perks" just not extensively.

Also as a more light-hearted joke and not a taunt. Stop saying pulling card, giving card and what not. I DO NOT want your V-card.

[maddmatt70]

while the concept is nice, it is inherently flawed because the healing you receive from your aura and bursts is directly influenced by your cleric level (1hp for every 3 cleric levels, rounded down).
this means that with 6 cleric levels your aura would heal for a base of 2 hp a tick. even with 200 positive spell power, +75 from empower healing, that's 5.5 hp a tick, rounded down to 5.
lets say we go all out for heal amps, picking up 30% racial (and further gimping the build, as we're now fully invested in RaS and Racial trees, neither of which does any damage) 10 + 20 + 30 from items. this will net a total of 2.2308 multiplier to incoming healing.
so 5 hp x 2.23 heal amp = 11 hp a tick (rounded down)

mind you, if you have 200 positive spell power, you're likely at level 20+
so these aren't the numbers you can expect to see while leveling. these are the "lets be extremely generous" numbers.
and as you can see, even when assuming we're going all out for it (fully investing in 2 trees to make it work), it's still a far cry from the 70 hp a tick you're seeing on your cleric.

like I said earlier, that was my original direction as well, but you'd have to give up a whole lot and get very little in return (fully amped bursts would heal for less than the healing smite would, require multiple feats and have a limited number of uses.
which is why I ended up opting for just 4 divine levels in the build; the healing smite is really the only useful self healing tool from the divine box.

Does healing smite trigger on multiple enemies with glancing blow or anything like that? I have not played around with it. 12 barbarian 4 fvs 4 rogue (could quite possibly get the saves up there) or 12 barbarain 4 fvs 4 fighter are both interesting.

[Charononus]

Does healing smite trigger on multiple enemies with glancing blow or anything like that? I have not played around with it. 12 barbarian 4 fvs 4 rogue (could quite possibly get the saves up there) or 12 barbarain 4 fvs 4 fighter are both interesting.

my fvs is twf so I'm not sure but I can tell you that it does trigger on off hand as I typically get 2 heal values above my head after I trigger it.

[kazeikan]

You continue to be blinded by this, yet you actually understand due to repeating it ad nauseum that you cant heal or repair with anything other than pots unless youre not raged, which eliminates all spells, due to your obsession with being raged. youre also continuie to lean on this as your argument in a thread where the OP requested a BYOH barbarian, and claim you must be raged to be effective. Still living in 2012.

The OP requested a BYOH barb that is preferably raged. Neither of us is exactly on point with the OP's request. I thought you said I was a FOTM player? Wouldn't that alone imply i live in 2013?


In 2013, one can level a THF build and have self healing without being raged. You've leveled a Jugg, so you should understand this, yet continue to contradict even yourself by attempting to toss rage in as an obstacle, claim barbarians now days must rely on it, and you post this in a thread where the OP clearly requested a BYOH barbarian.

You are contradicting yourself. There are no barb levels in a Jugg. I suppose you could if you really wanted but the reason for other splashes is because they offer actual benefits. Also the Jugg have the benefits of quickened reconstructs and is not majority barb levels. This shouldn't even be in this argument. The OP requested a byoh barb that preferably rages. Give him enough benefits to not rage beyond repair serious and flame turret aspects exclusive to 8 arti and it might be arguable.


Artificers are extremely OP in the low levels. Turret doesn't stop being useful til 15 or so.

I've never disagreed on this point.


UMD already puts me parallel to anything else you've supported, which ONLY had UMD. Arty also gets easy access to 75% amp on that UMD, and extra caster levels on stuff it uses.

His fvs levels along gives access to 75 amp. His rogue splash would too. Caster level increase should not increase reco or heal amount. However, that I'm not exactly sure on, so you can correct me.


Repair serious damage, and UMD on scrolls with extra caster levels and 75% scroll amp. Keeping leaving the perks you have no answer for out, and ill continue to pull your card on it.

I've listed repair serious damage as what you gained multiple times. Again for the last time UMD and 75% scroll amp is not exclusive to arti splash let alone a need for 8 levels of arti. And no I don't want your card unless it's a no-limit mastercard.


What you did wasn't reading, it was selective reading. You conveniently left out the part where the OP is rolling up another barb life on their main.

You do the exact same thing.


I showed how to not dismiss rage when needing a heal, by not relying on rage as the entire basis for the build in the first place, as you would do.

No, you have not.


The reading fail isn't on my part, its on your part - evidenced by conveniently only quoting the portion of any post that appears to support your stance and glossing over everything you have no answer for.

Pot meet kettle


Ive noticed you aren't quoting everyone else who has posted a 12 barb 6 healing class 2 something else or 12 barb 8 something else and pointed out repeatedly 3 times per page how rage is better than the healing the other class brings. This is because you understand these builds are sound. Your attacks toward mine specifically are nothing more than a personal agenda to disagree, likely due to some previous disagreement. If they weren't youd be acting the same way toward anyone else who is proposing healing themselves with magic with a majority of barbarian levels involved, which is every build in the thread save one.

Addressed in previous post.

[maddmatt70]

my fvs is twf so I'm not sure but I can tell you that it does trigger on off hand as I typically get 2 heal values above my head after I trigger it.

Hmm.. well d2 per character level so could hit for 56 before amp and spell power not counting anything else. Has a 15 second cooldown which is too long so need that in addition to something else. Divine Healing maybe if it works with rage or the ranger empathatic healing or something. Go cleric you can have pacificism. Would have to go to lammania and try a bunch of builds and see if functions work with rage.

[Lauf]

Go cleric you can have pacificism. Would have to go to lammania and try a bunch of builds and see if functions work with rage.

let me save you the trouble :) nothing works while raged. auras included.
ameliorating strike is the exception to the rule, as it doesn't count as a spell or a SLA.

using pacifism with the strike is possible and should work (i.e. add 25 to your positive spell power calculations for the strike) but constantly toggling it on and off in combat is a hassle, and fighting with a constant -1[W] is probably just not worth the 25 spell power on a barb build.
so while going cleric and picking up pacifism is a possibility, I think I'd rather have the +3 to reflex that comes with taking fvs levels instead.


my fvs is twf so I'm not sure but I can tell you that it does trigger on off hand as I typically get 2 heal values above my head after I trigger it.

yup. I believe I've mentioned it earlier in this thread, it triggers on both off-hand strikes and double strikes, so the more the merrier.

[maddmatt70]

let me save you the trouble :) nothing works while raged. auras included.
ameliorating strike is the exception to the rule, as it doesn't count as a spell or a SLA.

using pacifism with the strike is possible and should work (i.e. add 25 to your positive spell power calculations for the strike) but constantly toggling it on and off in combat is a hassle, and fighting with a constant -1[W] is probably just not worth the 25 spell power on a barb build.
so while going cleric and picking up pacifism is a possibility, I think I'd rather have the +3 to reflex that comes with taking fvs levels instead.



yup. I believe I've mentioned it earlier in this thread, it triggers on both off-hand strikes and double strikes, so the more the merrier.

Starting to buy 12 barbarian 4 rogue 4 fvs. Can get the saves to 50+ and with boosts 54 will and 60+ reflex.. The strength is as high as mid 70s so should get decent stun blow. Good damage avoidance and physical resistance. Ameloriating strike is pretty decent healing just the 15 seconds cooldown, but I think could make it all work. High dps as well. Talking about end game, but I think would be great for leveling as well.

[ThreeEyedBob]

Doing 18 barb 2 fighter bladeforged. Works very well I think, even though you cant use the Reconstruct while raged. The 2 fighter levels gives you more repair skill which is some nice synergy. With Ring of the Master Artificer it works nicely.

If you got some good healing in the group, go wild with rage. Otherwise, soloing and BYOH parties, I tend to not use rage unless I feel we have good control.

[Bukman]

Doing 18 barb 2 fighter bladeforged. Works very well I think, even though you cant use the Reconstruct while raged. The 2 fighter levels gives you more repair skill which is some nice synergy. With Ring of the Master Artificer it works nicely.

If you got some good healing in the group, go wild with rage. Otherwise, soloing and BYOH parties, I tend to not use rage unless I feel we have good control.

Mmmm that's an interesting option, although, you would need to buy a lesser heart of wood +1 and an aligment change item to swap to a non-lawaful one.
I'd go with 2 fvs instead of fighter though, for some sp for that Reconstruct SLA and extra strenght via Divine Might, but 2 extra feats are also welcome.

[JasonJi72]

I am making an Elven 12 Barb / 6 Ranger / 2 Rogue Tempest with Dragonmarks.

Granted, I made it as a first life test/flavor build, but it is fun to play. I focus on not taking damage, but I can UMD heal/RAISE when needed, and still do respectable damage for a multiclass barbarian.

I did not go too far in OS because I do switch weapons occassionally (manyshot/scrolls), but there are still some good barbarian enhancements for a Tempest type. It has been on hold for a while, but I might start playing it again soon.

My reflex is actually high enough for evasion to work sometimes against non-traps. No spot, so ofc I find traps like barbarians should, but I can disable most of them.

[Serow]

Starting to buy 12 barbarian 4 rogue 4 fvs. Can get the saves to 50+ and with boosts 54 will and 60+ reflex.. The strength is as high as mid 70s so should get decent stun blow. Good damage avoidance and physical resistance. Ameloriating strike is pretty decent healing just the 15 seconds cooldown, but I think could make it all work. High dps as well. Talking about end game, but I think would be great for leveling as well.

THIS, i did use ameliorating strike to do a fighter past life (f12 mnk3 fvs5) and yet using to do epic hard; you can mix and match any barb enh you feel like use but:

1)heal amp is your friend so you have two options: human or helf (paladin dilly, not monk)
-human can use dragon mark of passage (with all related goodies) and best amp
-why helf with paladin dilly? Because you don't want to become M.A.D. like a monk, cha will become useful a bit for saves and to power up divine might

2)enhancement:
-39 ap will be more or less set (22 warpriest, 15 racial or up to 17 with great heroism)
-helf version can make good use of a +4 enh on scimitars,may choose to turn scimitar into an implement(exspensive)

3)ameliorating strike can keep you alive as long you:
-don't overdo with aggro
-use well your tactical feats (TAKE STUNNING BLOW!)
-scales with both spellpower and amp, but amp is good for pots too (csw pots, not a fan of silver flame) and you will use pots...
-remember that IT CAN MISS (on a 1 sure, but keep it in mind to not have smite as last resort...)

4)gear:
-heal amp dragon touched (lv 16 10/20/something like devotion84 or a guard), pdk gloves(lv 20), finger neck.... no, better use silver flame neck for deathblock and neg absorb
-devotion (red slot a melee weapon)
-potions, many potions (not just csw)

PS: i am sorry if my grammar will make bleed someone's eyes......

[Ziindarax]

Personally, I am thinking of something along the lines of Human or Dwarf (Dwarves for their racial enhancements boosting armor, throw your weight around, and/or their generous buffs when you drink anything, and humans for their healing amp). Ideally, I am trying to figure out a way to use the handy debuffs of the Ravager alongside the Defensive stances of Stalwart, and the Warpriest for Ameliorating strike. Problem is, Stalwart eats up a bit of AP.

Gonna try a few theory builds on Lamma when it next opens up. What I am trying to accomplish with the 9 Cleric, 7 Fighter, 4 Barbarian is a build that is difficult to hit in general content (think of this as a build that helps gets you established), passable PRR when he does get hit, has useful debuffs, and possesses self/group healing that doesn't use mana. For Epic Destinies, I am thinking of the following as twists - the two shield enhancements from Sentinel, and Cocoon from Druid to complement Fury of the Wild (which should shore up some of the weaknesses from sword and boarding).

NOTE: Since we're looking for survivability, and even some utility, DPS takes a relative backseat (we don't want to waste enhancements on Rage since we're not going to use rage). Heal needs to be maximised, and you'll want something that gets your Positive SP (not sure if Empower Healing will add enough passive Spellpower to make it count) as high as possible.


with the new trees no longer requiring barbs to kill themselves, I've decided to look into rolling another barb life on my main.
the main problem being that BYOH is a must have for me.

---EDIT added the following summary:

for those of you coming to this thread looking for ideas on how to build a BYOH capable barb, here's a summary of the ideas raised in this thread :

pure Barb, chug pots. good luck.
pure Barb, OS tree, have as many temp hp items as possible (demonic shield, con-opp, bodyfeeder) & chug pots.
12 barb 8 arti, warforged, at early levels using the dog invis and on passive, following you & granting aura-repairs. at later levels umd scroll reconstructs.
12/10 barb, 8 bard, 2 rogue or fighter. blur + displace + haste, some healing spells and umd scrolling when not raged.
14 barb, 4 fvs, 2 rogue. heal with Ameliorating strike, twf for double proc chance with it, some healing spells and umd scrolling when not raged.
12 barb, 4 fvs, 4 rogue. generally along the same lines as the above option, only going with helf + pally dilli for improved saves.
11 barb 5 rogue 4 fvs. halfling with dragonmarks, heal while raged with Ameliorating strike, full blown acrobat (qstaff build, 25% doublestrike), some healing spells, umd and dragonmarks healing when not raged.


unless specifically stated otherwise, assume the race for the build is human for maximum heal amp.

--- Original post:

so far the best idea I could come up with is taking halfling for dragonmarks
5 rogue levels for trapping skills and acrobat training (& tier 5) using a bloody staff of shadow (+5, Lesser Vampirism, Life Stealing, Bodyfeeder)
adding 4 fvs levels to the mix for that healing smite goodness, as well as access to meta-magics to amplify the halfling dragonmarks
and that would leave me with 11 barbarian levels

the thing I'm wracking my brains about now is that there simply aren't enough APs to go around... after the racial tree, the warpriest and the acrobat, I'd have very few points left to pour into the barbarian trees.

it'll still be a high-damage high-survivability build, just not sure it would "feel" anything like what you'd expect from a barbarian.

has anyone been able to come up with a decent self healing barb build? preferably something that doesn't require you to chug pots or dismiss rage whenever you need a heal...

[Hollowind]

Blood tribute is probably the single most underrated enhancement currently in the game.

[Xianio]

This was my solution: Spooky DPS (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/432822-Rageborn-Wraith-Spooky-DPS)

It's basically a PM-Barb leveraging the Wraith form and negative energy auras for constant healing/miss chance defense.

Mine is only level 5 so I can't tell you how it works out yet, but on paper it seems alright. The big selling points are 50% displacement, 25% incorporeal, as much dodge as you want to commit to and dual death auras. All the buffs are designed around timing out just after rage ends (as best I can) so that you should be able to rage and rebuff without losing defenses.

[Lauf]

What I am trying to accomplish with the 9 Cleric, 7 Fighter, 4 Barbarian is a build that is ...



This was my solution: (12 wiz / 6 barb / 2 fvs)

It's basically a PM-Barb leveraging the Wraith form ...

thank you for 2 interesting builds, however (looking at it from a thread standpoint) one's a wizard and the other a cleric.
while I totally see that an argument can be made that the enhancements can be the same as those of a purer barbarian, I think that a line needs to be drawn at some point. and IMO a build with 4 barbarian levels is past the point of being called a barb build.

so while it may seem arbitrary, I'll keep the information in the opening post limited to builds that are mostly barbarian, assuming that that is what people expect to find when looking up a BYOH barb.

[Xianio]

Perhaps perhaps but I think the value isn't so much in the AP distribution as it is in the gameplay.

There is no way to be successful with that build of mine with the current feats/gear/leveling up/AP's without going into melee. As a caster, that's a failure build. As a melee, it's solid.

I think this is something that gets people really caught up with this enhancement pass. it's no longer about the number of levels you have in a class, it's about how you drop AP and feats. If you have 5 levels of something, you could be "that thing" for all intents and purposes.

After all, what's more important? The numbers on the board or the way it plays?

In my mind, if it carries a big axe, rages and hits stuff in the face, it's a barb. Regardless of the fact that it has fewer levels in the class total.

[Acaios]

I was thinking you could splash 7-8 wizard for zombie barb. you would still get greater rage and the zombie form + improved shrouding would enable you to still maintain a decent decent con and str bonus. You could heal with death auras and the meta magic feats would pretty much be covered by the wizard bonus feats. It looks like you would need extend, heighten, maximize and empower to make the most of the auras to heal you. I'm not sure if they stack but I've heard pale masters get like 30-60+ every 2 seconds healing from the auras even at lower levels. You would also get extra hp and a 25 prr base just from having zombie on with improved shrouding. the occult slayer prr and the ravager prr for 15 and your looking at a 40 prr base before armor comes into play. you'd easily hit 60 prr even in just medium with a 10 blue gem and a set of medium armor perhaps 70 in heavy if you sunk a feat and that's in heroic levels.

All you would need is 12 points in int and then you could use a +4 int enhancement spell and never have to worry about casting again. I havent fleshed this idea out a alot but how I see it. zombie barb would have most of the stats gaps filled and could choose to delve into using barb rages and only heal with death auras making the frenzied barb basically a free tree or you could only use the rage spell and use sleet storm for trash and build some type of backstabbing perma blind barb. I am still really busy with my melee but there is potential to make a neg healing barb with easy up keep auras if rage doesn't turn them off.


you would have access to haste could make it a bit better. or you could find some way to build around vampire instead. it's a rough layout honestly I'm sure there are ways around it. the main focus is constant healing from death auras making the frenzy tree 100% free + the ability to stack a lot of temp hp due to all your con boosts.

I don't know if the death auras stack or how high they get per tick however. I would have to find out how much they heal at 300 spell power and 20% crit chance. something very easy to make happen with empower, maximize, 20 or so ap sunk into pale master for negative amp , health , prr etc and a custom trinket with negative sp +14-15% crit chance.

thanks for your ideas. i was trying to make a build for my sorcerer, to get 3 barb past lives, while being an iconic race. so that`s my build :

9 barb 9 wiz 2 ftr vampire PDK (should i name him Blade? :P)
+10hp and +3 prr/life


i`m at lvl 25 atm. at heroic lvls i had very high HP at lvl compared with other people i grouped with (about 400 at 15 iirc and going up) which made me difficult to kill. my principle is that i needed a good HP pool, because neg burst doesnt heal you very powerfully like reconstruct does, and being lvl9 wiz only makes it worse. so big hp, keep aura on and in tough battles both auras on. and bursting when needed.
this build requires a few good items to work, but as long as you have them you`re set! most of them are what casters collect usually, for their wiz PM lives, so that might make it easier for them.

SELF HEALING:
shroud of the abbot (upgraded for the extra caster lvl) very important for the boon of undeath, void lore and the extra caster lvl for buffs, auras, burst, haste/rage/displacement
wretched twilight (nullification 72,ghostly, sneak attack4 - not upgraded - if u have spare seals do it, i dont) pretty nice item for this build.
bracers of demon consort: nice temp hp proc / although at heroic lvls i had there the glacier bracers for my archmagi
gaurdian gaunlets : 8 con, ml 15. how osum that item is!

SP:
torc and con/op GS (mine is belt with 45hp). the truth is that u`re low on sp about 750 with archmagi/cove trinket/+6int item (temporarily the last two, until you burn the sp). so it`s nice to have some sp back. i even dont use displacement sometimes, when i can handle the damage but need more the sp.
plus, at heroic lvls, my icon was of the wizard`s one, so i was expected to buff ppl too :P (at least blur. gh scrolls at 85% success rate if some1 didnt have planar gird and asked me for it)
vile blasphemies, archivist necklace, twisted necklaces (heroic+epic), bauble help too.

WEAPONS:
base sos. it`s nice if u have it for heroics. if not, a lit2 falchion would do it. or greataxe if u plan to use it in epics too. disruptors/banishers/etc
breach (once upgraded for planar focus-that`s what i have). cleaver would probably do better dps, especially in LD destiny.
items with nullification higher than my cloak, that i used them when i casted aura, and then switch back to melee weapons

FEATS:
toughness
power attack
cleave
gr.cleave
improved critical slashing
quicken
empower
maximize
extend
THF
ITHF
stunning blow (although i rarely land it coz of my low dc. and i dont want to invest on items just for 3 lives. i`ll switch it next life with GTHF)

heighten doesnt affect auras for healing you more (it`s just for the DC probably, so i wouldnt take it). and i dont cast offensive spells. well, at 99.9% of times. for bursts quicken, empower, maximize. for auras extend. for other buffs extend at most epics coz when u have blitz on, u wont want to shrine.

epic: epic toughness, overwhelming critical, (? - something between GTHF and mental toughness)
epic destiny feats: 20 neg spell power/ perfect THF / perfect TWF (coz it gives +5% doublestrike - i dont know if it works with THF, but probably it should). i dont know yet which 2 of those 3 to pick

twists: fey form (15 spell power, dr/7 cold iron), scream, grim precision


ENHANCEMENTS:
i wont write them all, just what i find important

PDK
damage boost (can be activated at the same time with ftr haste boost)
1con
(with LD`s additional action boosts, if you can afford you could spend some points in action surge for additional str+con when you use bursts. i didnt in this life)

PM
shroud of the vampire
deathless vigor (3)
negative critical x4
negative energy conduit (3)
bone armor(3)
cloak of night(3)
con x2
improved shrouding (u have 200% vulnerability instead of 300% to light. your attacks have vampirism! and 1 neg at vorpals)

Frenzied Berzeker
frenzy (at least for heroic lvls, it adds some dps. and with vampirism it`s almost free)
die harder (3) + blood tribute (3) (these 2 are for the oh sh1t! moments, when you`re very low on health, and burst doenst cover it quickly
extra boost (3)
sprint boost (1) nice for zerging while blitz counter is running low
angry arms (+mad munitions if GTHF)
supreme cleave (3)

Ravager
furious rage
do u like pain (3)
i like pain (3)
barbarian power attack (3)

Kensei
haste boost (3)
weapon specialization x1

Occult Slayer
weapon bond (sometimes it`s useful for the +5attack for 20secs)
ear smash (3) I FREAKING LOVE THIS B1TCHSL@P!! 6 seconds casters cant cast spells. 12 seconds cooldown. no DC. as long as you land the hit. i`ve tried it and it works on many bosses (for example the pristess in impossible demands, caster bosses in army of shadow and through a mirror darkly. iirc some undead casters too. i havent tried it on abbot yet, as i saved my sigils for the next lives). although you have to be careful and close to the mob, to make sure you`ll hit it.
add an improved deception item and the caster will cast at you only 20% of his full potential

Eldritch knigh
eldritch strike : 1% double strike. and it`s another cleave. although it costs 10 sp and has long cooldown (but very cool visual effect - like LOB when he stuns)


for creation up to lvl 15, i`d take at least 8 lvls in wizard, for early access to aura/burst/dd, and the 8 caster lvl for auras and buffs. and the 2 ftr lvls for feats.
starting stats depend on your tomes. i have +4 for str and con, so i started with 16 on both of them, and raised 1 con at lvl ups, to get it to 21 for epic toughness. the rest went to str, for overwhelming critical.

i know that i lack in potential dps if i took the tier5 from barb prestiges, but vampire`s tier5 adds so much to survivability, plus i dont have to be raged for them to work. although someone else could work with barb rage (it lasts almost as much as extended auras do). and fatigue doesnt affect pale masters. (neither do dance or stuns!). but when i`m low in health i want to cast my burst asap. not to search for the dismiss rage button first.

i have 2 horc barbarians. this life with that build is what made my experience with barbs (at least at heroic lvls, when i didnt have yet access to sf pots) a lot easier. and in LD destiny, it`s really easy to solo eh quests. the only annoying thing is when you have to teleport to somewhere else inside a quests, which dismisses your blitz and your auras.

EDIT: i forgot to mention that this build isnt made for epic elites, just for the past lives. the incoming damage in e/e is too much and you`ll be needing a lot of sp pots for bursts.
2. atm, at lvl25, my sp is 794 and hp with ship buffs+rage+scream is 921.
3. this build could be worked a bit, if someone doesnt want it just for the past life, but for being able to be in e.e. i`d take more wiz lvls (for auras+burst) and less barbarian. 3 lvl barb i think would have been enough for the enhancements, or 4 if u want the uncunny dodge too. and i would probably go wraith perhaps for less chance to be hit, instead of vampirism. and definitely an accuracy +10 item :P

[adrian69]

I've spent the last month playing around with the idea as well. The biggest problem I run into, is like the poster has stated, the AP issue. However, I am working with a Barbarian that is high DPS, no FB kill-self at the moment. I ended up going HOrc, and investing in the +4 hit/+5 dmg with two handed weapons, Horc rage (which is a nice addition to Pot/Item rage on top of Barb rage) and then OS and Rav trees. I'm level 15, and don't have a solid plan at end game at the time and really plan to TR at 20. He has been easy quest solo material so far, even without companions.

However, I think the problem is we all want to TWF. I just can't find a way to make a TWF work given what we have to work with, so that's why I ended up going Horc. I think going 10-12 barb (at least for greater rage), 4 fvs (or 6), and 2-6 rogue (any combination would have purposes and uses) on a Horc would feel and play somewhat like a Barbarian. I am just looking for ways to go about getting my 3rd barbarian PL now. I love the class, but I agree that they have this either/or quality with them now with the new enhancements.

[Arcanegrin]

Been lurking on this thread for a while now. Recently finished my 3rd barbarian life, 12 barb / 6 ranger / 2 rogue dwarf, con based, two axes and manyshot. The build worked great on EH, could kill most things, great HP mid 1500s in destiny. Damage mitigation was decent enough, but hit a wall in EE content. Anyway as a contribution to BYOH build I'll post a bit from the new ED which brings new healing capabilities. Rolled up a 36 point, 12 barb, 2 rogue, 4 fvs for this.

Assuming Human etc.

New epic destiny healing

Consecrated ground (Can cast while raged) - healing every 3 seconds equal to character level, affected by healing power
145 devotion - ticks for 57 each time
FVS barbarian at 217 devotion, 107 each tick
empower healing no affect

No remorse - when enemy dies with aura on it, heals for positive energy equal to CR
is affected by healing amp, getting 39-40 for cr 30 mob

[Arcanegrin]

UPDATE:



EDIT:
Oh, and I can confirm that the Reconstruct SLA works normaly, but not while raging. Just tested again, just to see if anything happened last patch.

Original Post:

Also just saw something in another thread:


It's works now on live, a BF Barbarian CAN reconstruct itself. This no longer works on Lamania. Reconstruct while raged.

[pesch1991]

Let them use heal scrolls while enraged (it is still hard to get enough umd) or change silver flame potions make them Stack 100 times instead of 10 and remove the Penalty with this more People will buy necropolis Packs to earn 400 favor to unlock them seriously every class gets more love recently barbarians get nothing have less feats than everyone Else cant use heal scrolls and get the self dmg Portion of frenzy and death frenzy when using a bow Without adding vicious or greater vicious to your bow Comeone Turbine do something ...

[Lauf]

Let them use heal scrolls while enraged (it is still hard to get enough umd) or change silver flame potions make them Stack 100 times instead of 10 and remove the Penalty with this more People will buy necropolis Packs to earn 400 favor to unlock them seriously every class gets more love recently barbarians get nothing have less feats than everyone Else cant use heal scrolls and get the self dmg Portion of frenzy and death frenzy when using a bow Without adding vicious or greater vicious to your bow Comeone Turbine do something ...

your reply seems to be in the wrong thread...
try posting it here:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435726-How-to-fix-Barbarians

[Cardtrick]

Did you ever try putting together a Halfling dragon-marked acrobat ameliorating strike barbarian build?

I think it's a really interesting concept, so I tried working one up in the planner. The problem is that the enhancements are so incredibly tight: minimum 22 APs into Warpriest for Ameliorating Strike, minimum 32 into Acrobat for Staff specialization, minimum 12 into Halfling for Greater Dragonmark. That leaves virtually nothing left over for the Barbarian trees, especially since going so far into the other trees opens up a number of tempting options that practically demand to have points spent on them.

I'm not saying I dislike the build, but I don't think it would play anything like a true Barbarian. I think your rages would be so weak (and so few) that you would basically choose not to use them. All in all, it seems like a great way for someone who doesn't like Barbarians to get the past life, but not really a good option for someone who just wants to play a self-healing Barbarian.

For reference, I threw together a 32-point F2P-friendly version of the build. ("F2P-friendly" means no tomes and no paid classes, in this case.) I actually think it looks like it would be fun to play, although if I ever build it for real I'd go for favored soul rather than cleric for the saves.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Halfling Male
(9 Barbarian \ 7 Rogue \ 4 Cleric)
Hit Points: 292
Spell Points: 205
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 13
Will: 12

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 21 24
Dexterity 10 10 11
Constitution 16 16 16
Intelligence 14 14 14
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 8 8 8

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 4 4 7
Bluff -1 -1 0
Concentration 3 4 4
Diplomacy -1 -1 -1
Disable Device 6 25 25
Haggle -1 -1 -1
Heal 1 18 23
Hide 3 5 9
Intimidate -1 -1 -1
Jump 7 12 17
Listen -1 -1 1
Move Silently 4 4 6
Open Lock 4 6 6
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 2 2 2
Search 6 25 25
Spellcraft 2 2 2
Spot 3 22 22
Swim 3 7 7
Tumble 1 1 4
Use Magic Device 3 22 22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Heal (+4)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 3)


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+6)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing


Level 10 (Barbarian)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Barbarian)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Weakness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)


Level 13 (Barbarian)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+6)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Halfling - Cunning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Greater Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Glancing Blows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Glancing Blows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Glancing Blows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Specialization (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Weapon Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Uncanny Dodger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Uncanny Dodger (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Uncanny Dodger (Rank 3)


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+6)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Lunge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Vault (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Extend Rage (Rank 1)




Note that I figured I need at least 5 rogue levels, for quarterstaff specialization. I wanted to get to rogue 5 relatively early in the leveling process, but if you're going that far down the rogue path it seems like a shame not to take another level or two to keep trap skills up to snuff. Rogue 6 then became basically a minimum for me. I also want more barbarian levels than rogue levels (primarily just for flavor, and the past life). So possible class splits are 10/6/4, 9/7/4, or 9/6/5. I threw out the last option since (for flavor, mostly) I assume we're trying to limit the divine levels to the absolute minimum. In the end, Rogue 7 seemed to offer more than Barb 10, due to the extra sneak attack die and skill points.

There's some freedom with enhancements. You get a little more Barbarian-ish by dropping 7 points out of the acrobat tree, but it would mean giving up the Vault ability (abundant step / wings clone). Similarly, you could save 1 point from Halfling and you could move the 6 points I put in Occult Slayer into Ravager or Frenzied Berserker for more DPS. (Bizarrely enough, I'm actually using the only 6 points I put into the Barbarian trees for survival boosts -- 3% dodge, +1 DR, and +1 to all saving throws.)

This has to be one of the more survivable "Barbarians" I've ever seen: empowered healing dragon marks, ameliorating strike, decent dodge, "wings", solid saving throws, evasion. Nearly full trap skills. But DPS will only be "okay", rages will be nearly useless, and it really won't play much like a Barbarian at all.

[yfernbottom]

Color me insane, but I'm finding a pure halfling barb to be a lot of fun. I've been playing the toon largely solo, and I'm not very high up yet. However this is the only barbarian I've been able to stand playing past level 4 or so.

The dragon marks give substantial heals once you max them out. My very rough guess is around 50% of what an average even level Paladin could do between shrines. You also get +3 to all saves from halfling. I went up the OS tree, so that's +4 (with halfing) to all saves and a lot of extra damage resistance so the halfling heals get stretched out more. Plus you often screw over casters, the bane of all melee.

I missed out on 2 points of strength (+1 to hit and damage...not really missed), and I do have to carry potions for the times I need to heal while enraged (rare). I also can't imagine the DM heals would keep up with epic content. But so far, I am finding it a very fun leveling build.

[Lauf]

Color me insane, but I'm finding a pure halfling barb to be a lot of fun. I've been playing the toon largely solo, and I'm not very high up yet.

<snip>

I also can't imagine the DM heals would keep up with epic content. But so far, I am finding it a very fun leveling build.

you are correct in your assessment that the halfing heals won't cut it at higher levels. the human version scales nicely into epics as the benefit of the +30% heal amp doesn't diminish, unlike the healing you get from the dragonmarks (as a % of your total hp, their benefit erodes as you level).
however having the ability to cast heal in a pinch can sometimes be priceless.

I will add the OS halfling to the builds list in the OP.

[Tilomere]

This (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425933-Natural-Evolution-a-simplified-wolf-dps-build?p=5152275&viewfull=1#post5152275) build in post 16 will cut it anywhere.

[Lauf]

This (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425933-Natural-Evolution-a-simplified-wolf-dps-build?p=5152275&viewfull=1#post5152275) build in post 16 will cut it anywhere.

could be, but as I've stated earlier in this thread:



I'll keep the information in the opening post limited to builds that are mostly barbarian, assuming that that is what people expect to find when looking up a BYOH barb.

and with only 5 barb levels, this build doesn't quite fit the "byoh barb" category.

[Tilomere]

could be, but as I've stated earlier in this thread:

and with only 5 barb levels, this build doesn't quite fit the "byoh barb" category.


After 5 levels of barb, you sorta have everything. You have all the tiers of enhancements, rage, and fast movement. They only thing that works that you don't have are frenzy and death frenzy, but since healing is a problem you are trying to solve, the vicious self damage puts a damper on those abilities. Honestly, after level 1 rage and fast movement, a barb to me is pretty much solely enhancements and a playstyle. More barb levels to me don't seem to add more "barb-ness'. But I play a druid and sorc mainly, so I don't really know 'barb-ness' that well. I only posted the build since it seemed related to me. It definitely doesn't play like a hybrid shapeshifter, so regardless of level split, it isn't a druid. A 1 barb 19 sorc seems like a fast moving sorc. However, once that 1 barb/19 sorc hits barbarian rage and locks everything sorc out, its a barb. At least in my opinion.

That aside, if you are going to use ameliorating strike for healing, it makes sense to use TWF and a lot of double strike for more procs. It makes sense to have HAMP. Unarmed makes sense since it gives you full strength bonus to offhand. Druid is the only fit I see for giving barbs good unarmed twf damage and double strike at the same time, with 30% HAMP from a Wall of Wood. It seems like a good fit.

If you want a barb past life, 8 barb 8 druid 4 fvs would also work just fine, using the exact same setup I linked earlier, except you wouldn't need extend spell for animal growth and could pick up another NF feat.

[Lauf]

If you want a barb past life, 8 barb 8 druid 4 fvs would also work just fine, using the exact same setup I linked earlier, except you wouldn't need extend spell for animal growth and could pick up another NF feat.


Added, thanks.

[Fedora1]

Please excuse me if someone has already made this comment - BYOH Barbarian to me means Bring Your Own Hireling. :)

Okay now I am subscribed to the thread, thank you.

Might have to try a barb sometime now.

[Arcanegrin]

Does anyone have a barbarian in Epics now that wants to try out the new epic destiny for viable self healing? On lammania a while back the healing sacred ground would work while raged, killing should also proc self healing. I'd recommend having some devotion slotted.

I'm thinking Healing Amp, with positive spell power on a barbarian in this destiny.

[Tilomere]

Does anyone have a barbarian in Epics now that wants to try out the new epic destiny for viable self healing? On lammania a while back the healing sacred ground would work while raged, killing should also proc self healing. I'd recommend having some devotion slotted.

I'm thinking Healing Amp, with positive spell power on a barbarian in this destiny.


It is enough healing to solo any normal dungeon on EH and BYOH in EE on my druid/barb/cleric. I have around 230 positive spell power and an effective 100% hamp. It doesn't keep you alive against new raid fire damage that 1 shots you though, or swarms of EE mobs that effectively instakill you.

[Arcanegrin]

It is enough healing to solo any normal dungeon on EH and BYOH in EE on my druid/barb/cleric. I have around 230 positive spell power and an effective 100% hamp. It doesn't keep you alive against new raid fire damage that 1 shots you though, or swarms of EE mobs that effectively instakill you.

Are you using Ameliorating strikes while testing? Was hoping that wouldn't be needed to be viable.

[Tilomere]

Are you using Ameliorating strikes while testing? Was hoping that wouldn't be needed to be viable.

I think they are about equal. So both for harder things.