Who Is The Best 2 Weapon Fighter Now - Fighter/Monk Or Pure Ranger?

[Dorian]

I've been away from the game for a while and I'm looking to respec my fighter with his +20 heart.

What do you think is the better spec: A Kensei fighter with "One With The Blade" and some monk levels... or Pure Tempest Ranger with all of the doublestrike bonuses?

I am half-elf with 2 Nightmares and will be playing most content on epic hard.

Thanks for your input.

[CheeseMilk]

Two Nightmares?

WOO! (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425881-The-Ric-Flair-Woo-Woo-Woo-Build)

[Dorian]

Two Nightmares?

WOO! (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425881-The-Ric-Flair-Woo-Woo-Woo-Build)

interesting build... I'll look into it.

I've also seen a few 8fighter/6monk/6ranger builds that I should probably look at.

[maddmatt70]

How about two weapon fighting pure rogue?

[maddmatt70]

I see you have two nightmares which are less rogue like.

[CThruTheEgo]

The tempest capstone is likely broken. It was tested on Lam and found that the offhand doublestrike chance was only checked when mainhand doublestrikes went off. This was confirmed to be a bug but it is not known if it made it to live or not. If you?*decide to go pure tempest, please test the capstone and report your results here. (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/424082-Dev-Response-Please-Offhand-Doublestrike)

While Nightmare does provide the top twf dps on EE, it's actually sub-par on EH and lower. On EE mobs have inflated hp which means 1) the level drain on Nightmare will have more of a chance to proc and 2) it will drain more hp when it does. Below EE you're better off with straight dps.

As maddmatt mentioned, a pure rogue assassin is still one of the best contenders for top twf dps. But if you're not interested in a pure rogue, consider a centered Balizarde user. I've been toying with the idea of a dragonmarked elf fighter8/monk6/ranger6 dual wielding Balizardes. Elf gets bonuses to rapiers and longbows, 3% doublestrike, and displacement dragonmarks. Fighter8 for centered light blades and increased crit range. Monk6 for shadow veil, earth stance, 10% offhand attacks, PRR, and some heal amp and positive spell power. Ranger6 for a decent ranged option from manyshot and 10% more offhand attacks for a total of 100% with monk. Balizarde ends up with a crit profile of 13-18 x3, 19-20 x5 (x6 in legendary dreadnaught). Fists of iron gives you a crit profile of 12-18 x4, 19-20 x6 (x7 in legendary dreadnaught). I'm pretty sure this would outperform Nightmare in content lower than EE.

[Teh_Troll]

Best is subjective.

My ranger does less damage than my fighter but has better self-healing.

My fighter (12/6/2 build) does more damage than my ranger but while he can self-heal it's not as good as Quickened+Maximize+CSW.

I can't say either is better.

[Kalimah]

For my Tempest Ranger Kensai I switched from 2 nightmares to 1 nightmare and switched to an epic hard first blood for my offhand.

I too am on the fence about if I like it more with ranger or monk...

[Nightmanis]

I've been away from the game for a while and I'm looking to respec my fighter with his +20 heart.

What do you think is the better spec: A Kensei fighter with "One With The Blade" and some monk levels... or Pure Tempest Ranger with all of the doublestrike bonuses?

I am half-elf with 2 Nightmares and will be playing most content on epic hard.

Thanks for your input.

Rogue, 2 druid, 2 fighter. Fighter for extra action boosts/extra feats (11 total with the dread extra boosts included) and 2 druid for Doublestrike boost and Vengeful Hunter.

[Nightmanis]

Also, I designed a build for a guy that actually would solve this problem very well.

11 Ranger, 8 Fighter, 1 Monk. Centered with Bastard Swords, and as many boosts as you want from tempest. Stand around in earth stance 3, take the cleaves for Overwhelming Critical, and take point blank shot.

Granted, he was using khopeshes but it's not like the build can't be adapted for something else.

Though I guess the main doublestrike bonuses are on the top tier. So it's kind of whatever you would want to do.

[Charononus]

Best is subjective.

My ranger does less damage than my fighter but has better self-healing.

My fighter (12/6/2 build) does more damage than my ranger but while he can self-heal it's not as good as Quickened+Maximize+CSW.

I can't say either is better.

Exactly what I was about to write, what's best in this case is subjective and situational. My only real comment is to get some cha into the build and pick up divine might from one source or another. I've become addicted to divine might since u19.

[goodspeed]

I think ud have to first figure out what weapon you were going to use, how you wanted to play, and then decide on a build. Because their are just soooo many mix possibilities, all of which are gonna net you high good to great dmg.

I saw someone post an idea of a rog ranger... something else maybe pally. Actually seemed viable enough in forcing SA that eventually i'll make one instead of the standard 18/2mnk handwrap SA dmg.

[hp1055cm]

I'm rolling with a 10 Paladin (sacred defender)/ 4 Ranger (tempest) / 4 Rogue and it's a pretty solid build (aside from the new rogue changes on traps - bah). I'm not one to verify the mathematics of it but Paladin adds some nice defense, lay on hands, saves boost and con bonus.
Light armor (decent AC), evasion and TWF - worth a look. Not sure how it stacks against the new tempest but smokes the old build.

I'm thinking I'll be going 14 Monk \6 Ranger (tempest) on my next TR.

[01000010]

There are so many great twf combos right now, all i can tell you are that my favorite splash for twf is 2 cleric or fvs, no kidding. But druid is close.

[Ayseifn]

Still planning out my next life but one I do like so far but haven't fully specced out is 12 ranger/3 druid/4 fvs(last level not sure where to put yet). 3 druid for fatal harrier and vengeful hunter, 4 fvs for divine might, smite weakness and ameliorating strike and 12 ranger for the extra 10% offhand strikes. Lots of self healing and saves should be good enough for EH content but probably lacking for EE. If you have a couple of celestias you can take shield of condemnation from fvs too to up your dps when tanking things.

[01000010]

Still planning out my next life but one I do like so far but haven't fully specced out is 12 ranger/3 druid/4 fvs(last level not sure where to put yet). 3 druid for fatal harrier and vengeful hunter, 4 fvs for divine might, smite weakness and ameliorating strike and 12 ranger for the extra 10% offhand strikes. Lots of self healing and saves should be good enough for EH content but probably lacking for EE. If you have a couple of celestias you can take shield of condemnation from fvs too to up your dps when tanking things.

Strong build, definitely ee capable when geared.

[CoasterHops]

I'm pretty sure there is no one build that has been proven to be the new king of TWF Dps.

How about something along the Lines of:

8 Fighter / 6monk / 6ranger.

Kensai Centred with Light blades.

-For Trash 2 * Sacrificial Daggers in Air Stance
-For Bosses 2 * Balizarde in Earth Stance
-For when u really have to bypass DR 2 * Celestias

Of course the split can be fiddled to suit, but the light blades centred is pretty important.
Tier IV stances, Str based with OC line, Centred Manyshot for ***** and giggles.

[Dorian]

I'm pretty sure there is no one build that has been proven to be the new king of TWF Dps.

How about something along the Lines of:

8 Fighter / 6monk / 6ranger.

Kensai Centred with Light blades.

-For Trash 2 * Sacrificial Daggers in Air Stance
-For Bosses 2 * Balizarde in Earth Stance
-For when u really have to bypass DR 2 * Celestias

Of course the split can be fiddled to suit, but the light blades centred is pretty important.
Tier IV stances, Str based with OC line, Centred Manyshot for ***** and giggles.

So the 8Fighter/6monk/6ranger build are more for using light weapons? I currently have 2 Nightmares and I don't plan on running CiTW anymore... so maybe this type of build is not for me.

Thanks for all the replies. It looks like I need to wait and learn the new enhancement system before I attempt any type of multi-class build... so many options.

[FlaviusMaximus]

I have no clue about what combo is best, but 12fighter/4paladin/4monk is a combo that revolves around getting the most out of your Nightmares. You get 16-20 level drain (kensai tier 5) and lots of healing amp for the vampirism (the two tiers of healing amp from paladin + 2 core abilities from monk). You get nice high tactics with divine might (just be sure to start with a decent charisma, like 14) and power surge. You can even get an additional heal on hit source when you hit enemies with fists of light.

[FlaviusMaximus]

Still planning out my next life but one I do like so far but haven't fully specced out is 12 ranger/3 druid/4 fvs(last level not sure where to put yet). 3 druid for fatal harrier and vengeful hunter, 4 fvs for divine might, smite weakness and ameliorating strike and 12 ranger for the extra 10% offhand strikes. Lots of self healing and saves should be good enough for EH content but probably lacking for EE. If you have a couple of celestias you can take shield of condemnation from fvs too to up your dps when tanking things.

Is it working as intended that the beast stances work when not in beast form?

I only ask because I've lost a lot of characters lately because of "fixes" in the patches and want to be sure I wont have to retire a druid splashed character a few days after rolling one up.

[CoasterHops]

So the 8Fighter/6monk/6ranger build are more for using light weapons? I currently have 2 Nightmares and I don't plan on running CiTW anymore... so maybe this type of build is not for me.

Thanks for all the replies. It looks like I need to wait and learn the new enhancement system before I attempt any type of multi-class build... so many options.

No the fighter/monk is definately suited to using nightmares, just remember you need 8 levels of fighter as a minimum, 2 levels of monk nets evasion, and the rest is how you want to build it.
I was just throwing out a theory build for good twf dps lol, your kensai focus allows you to stay centred with a variety of weapons eg. Heavy Blades = Khopesh, scimmies, longswords etc, Light Blades = Rapiers, daggers, shortswords etc.

[Nightmanis]

So the 8Fighter/6monk/6ranger build are more for using light weapons? I currently have 2 Nightmares and I don't plan on running CiTW anymore... so maybe this type of build is not for me.

Thanks for all the replies. It looks like I need to wait and learn the new enhancement system before I attempt any type of multi-class build... so many options.

Just gonna throw it out there, his build is pretty much just a base line. Nightmare can be put on any build with at least 8 fighter (if you want to be centered) or just any build in general. The best part about it too is that it's a heavy blade meaning you can also use Longswords, Scimitars, all the thf blades, and gain all the same benefits. You can use khopeshes as well, but you need the proper feat to do so.

The other good thing, is Bastard swords don't suck. If you really want to get as much mileage out of them as you can, a 12 fighter 5 Arti 2 Monk build would gain you the most bonuses. Go Human (cause they are awesome) and boom, super awesome build. Even would have enough feats to throw some ranged abilities in there.

[TheLegendOfAra]

Currently I'm liking the looks of either 11Ranger/8Rogue/1Fighter, or a 14Ranger/4Pali/2Fighter(Or 2 Monk, fighter is only really only for stunning blow DC's.).

The first is a high DPS build working around sneak attack. No tactics, since it wouldn't be possible to sustain any good DC's for EE's worth a rogue split. I'm currently only level 14 with it, but I'm already critting for 300-400 with LitII Longswords and Maelstrom. End up with 100% offhand procs, something like 12d6+12 sneak attack or something close to that. You get max UMD for heal scrolls, Empower heal'd CLW/CMW, Cocoon. Evasion, Improved Uncanny Dodge.

The second build while less DPS, is much, much more survivable. Empowered heal+Quickened CLW/CMW/CSW, 5 LOH's, Heal scrolls, Cocoon. FOM. Plenty of heal amp. if you go with the Fighter splash, you also get tactics for stunning blow in EE's. Your Stunning Blow will work well up to EE's, and will work in EE's up until the U19 content.*** You get fear immunity, god like saves, Evasion, Poison Immunity, Disease Immunity, Divine Might, Cha to saves. 90% offhand, With the DM you end up with more Str than otherwise possible on a mostly Ranger split.(Depending on gear you end up with close to 70 Str)

*** While it is theoretically possible to have a stunning blow DC for all EE's up to the u19 content(and anything except Giants etc. in U19), it does take a lot of gear. A lot. and 3 Fighter past lives would certainly not hurt either, although you can make it without them if you only play EH.

[CThruTheEgo]

Currently I'm liking the looks of either 11Ranger/8Rogue/1Fighter . . . End up with 100% offhand procs...

Where do you get the other 10% offhand with this build? You get 10% from tempest core 2. You need ranger 12 to get the other 10% from tempest core 4. AFAIK the only other place to increase offhand attack chance is shintao deft strikes. What am I missing?

[Nibor]

Pure rogue is absolutely absurd DPS. My biggest complaint has been that using divine power from a scroll just doesn't last long enough to be worth it, and I notice the attack speed difference.

I'm currently trying out 12 Ranger/8 Fighter Khopesh TWF (which can also use longswords/scimitars just as well). Full BAB, great DPS, but survivability has been weaker than I'd like. While leveling he's been kind of a barbarian without the class icon giveaway - HPs on both sides of the fight just melt away. In epic levels I'm starting to gear up better and it's starting to be less painful. Monk splashes are almost certainly more powerful all around.

[TheLegendOfAra]

Where do you get the other 10% offhand with this build? You get 10% from tempest core 2. You need ranger 12 to get the other 10% from tempest core 4. AFAIK the only other place to increase offhand attack chance is shintao deft strikes. What am I missing?

Ah, you're correct. My bad.
When I first came up with the build and started playing it I originally planned it to be 12Ranger/7Rogue/1Fighter; I was convinced 8 Rogue would be better though, because of Improved Uncanny Dodge. I was pulling the stats from my notebook and forgot I had actually changed the build. lol

[TheLegendOfAra]

I'm currently trying out 12 Ranger/8 Fighter Khopesh TWF (which can also use longswords/scimitars just as well). Full BAB, great DPS, but survivability has been weaker than I'd like. While leveling he's been kind of a barbarian without the class icon giveaway - HPs on both sides of the fight just melt away.

:O How can you have 12 Ranger levels and lack survivability? That's nearly impossible.

[droid327]

:O How can you have 12 Ranger levels and lack survivability? That's nearly impossible.

Heh yeah, I have a 14 Rgr/2 Fighter khop wielder TR as my main right now...12 Rgr loses Cure Serious, but even Cure Moderate with Emp Heal, plus Tempest dodging and Evasion, should be miles ahead of Barbarian in terms of self-sustainability in Heroic. I was running Elites at +1 level, with a Cleric hireling, and it was still basically a faceroll, except for traps. I didnt even have to heal myself that often.

[Nibor]

:O How can you have 12 Ranger levels and lack survivability? That's nearly impossible.

Because I took 4 levels of fighter before my 12th ranger level (probably a mistake, should have gone ranger 12 then fighter levels from there. Maybe. Extra feats early didn't hurt); didn't have evasion until lvl 13, healing lagging behind even more than usual, and it was a completely unprepared TR in terms of gear. Almost all the enhancements were towards DPS at first; eventually I took improved dodge, mobility feat, and improved mobility, but not until towards the end of the build. Didn't have a devotion item until epic levels where I had some red slot on the off-hand.

I'm also wondering if I should ditch the +stun items and try to stack improved deception instead; that might be the single most important piece of defense my rogue has, and he has the attack speed for it. Still need more doublestrike, though.

At any rate, I think the changes have made it so TWF builds have a lot of choices on how to level split. Just don't forget pure rogue as an option.

[droid327]

Because I took 4 levels of fighter before my 12th ranger level (probably a mistake, should have gone ranger 12 then fighter levels from there. Maybe. Extra feats early didn't hurt); didn't have evasion until lvl 13, healing lagging behind even more than usual, and it was a completely unprepared TR in terms of gear. Almost all the enhancements were towards DPS at first; eventually I took improved dodge, mobility feat, and improved mobility, but not until towards the end of the build. Didn't have a devotion item until epic levels where I had some red slot on the off-hand.

I'm also wondering if I should ditch the +stun items and try to stack improved deception instead; that might be the single most important piece of defense my rogue has, and he has the attack speed for it. Still need more doublestrike, though.

Ah well thats not Ranger's fault, then :) Still, a pair of Water Khopeshes and you're basically good to go. I did think you were talking about a Heroic TR, though, not necessarily Epic, which I havent played into with a TWF Ranger yet...I trust you're using Cocoon with Emp Heal, now?

I would definitely go with Deception. Backstabber's Gloves, specifically - gives you Bluff procs, plus Sneak Damage to make use of them. Combined with Exposing Strike, it keeps mobs spun around a lot, which is almost as good as stunning them. Always funny to see a Fire Elemental lobbing fireballs in the opposite direction :)

[Nightmanis]

Ah, you're correct. My bad.
When I first came up with the build and started playing it I originally planned it to be 12Ranger/7Rogue/1Fighter; I was convinced 8 Rogue would be better though, because of Improved Uncanny Dodge. I was pulling the stats from my notebook and forgot I had actually changed the build. lol

Seems you could just switch the offhand procs for the 2 builds you mentioned and you'd be fine :P

And yes, the 8 rogue version will be uber. Soon as you can actually, you know, finish it.

[Teh_Troll]

Pure rogue is absolutely absurd DPS. My biggest complaint has been that using divine power from a scroll just doesn't last long enough to be worth it, and I notice the attack speed difference.

Tensor's Transformation is over a minute and a stronger buff.

[TheLegendOfAra]

Seems you could just switch the offhand procs for the 2 builds you mentioned and you'd be fine :P

And yes, the 8 rogue version will be uber. Soon as you can actually, you know, finish it.
Haha I should do that, but I'm to lazy.

And I willllll! Eventually. Maybe. Probably. I'll go try to log in first thing in the morning! Maybe.


Because I took 4 levels of fighter before my 12th ranger level (probably a mistake, should have gone ranger 12 then fighter levels from there. Maybe. Extra feats early didn't hurt); didn't have evasion until lvl 13, healing lagging behind even more than usual, and it was a completely unprepared TR in terms of gear. Almost all the enhancements were towards DPS at first; eventually I took improved dodge, mobility feat, and improved mobility, but not until towards the end of the build. Didn't have a devotion item until epic levels where I had some red slot on the off-hand.

I'm also wondering if I should ditch the +stun items and try to stack improved deception instead; that might be the single most important piece of defense my rogue has, and he has the attack speed for it. Still need more doublestrike, though.

At any rate, I think the changes have made it so TWF builds have a lot of choices on how to level split. Just don't forget pure rogue as an option.

Ah haha I see, I guess that makes some sense. Prepared TR's are the best TR's.

[whereispowderedsilve]

Haha I should do that, but I'm to lazy.

And I willllll! Eventually. Maybe. Probably. I'll go try to log in first thing in the morning! Maybe.



Ah haha I see, I guess that makes some sense. Prepared TR's are the best TR's.

Ah I see what you 2 are talking about, your doing that toon in your sig?

Is that a 34/36 point human build with TWF & trapping etc? 11 ranger 8 rogue 1 fighter? Looks interesting! :P! :)! :D! Cheers!

[Drwaz99]

Soon as you can actually, you know, finish it.

I'm more likely to be hit by lightning and have a unicorn for a Dr than have this happen anytime this century.