New content, end reward changes question

[LOOON375]

Why the change to the named end reward turn in items? I see nothing in this regard in the release notes.

For example, you used to be able to get a piece of the Skirmisher's set, that was ML 26 or 27, I believe. Now it's ML 19, and it's not quite as good as the epic stuff.

And if this is WAI, how do you go about getting the epic versions?

This change did affect the items I already have stored in my bank.

Thanks.

[LOOON375]

Why the change to the named end reward turn in items? I see nothing in this regard in the release notes.

For example, you used to be able to get a piece of the Skirmisher's set, that was ML 26 or 27, I believe. Now it's ML 19, and it's not quite as good as the epic stuff.

And if this is WAI, how do you go about getting the epic versions?

This change didn't affect the items I already have stored in my bank.

Thanks.I couldn't edit my post and fixed a typo in this quote.

[Feather_of_Sun]

With Update 19, we released some new technology in the quest system that allowed us to set the questgiver up in a way where they knew if you had completed the quest on Heroic or Epic, and provide rewards accordingly. Unfortunately, as an unforeseen side-effect, it caused issues with raid completion tracking.
All of that code has since been reverted to fix the raid issues, so Wheloon and Storm Horns questgivers can no longer provide their Epic reward list.

This is being worked on by a quest system engineer, and will be corrected in a future patch. Sorry for the inconvenience!

[LOOON375]

With Update 19, we released some new technology in the quest system that allowed us to set the questgiver up in a way where they knew if you had completed the quest on Heroic or Epic, and provide rewards accordingly. Unfortunately, as an unforeseen side-effect, it caused issues with raid completion tracking.
All of that code has since been reverted to fix the raid issues, so Wheloon and Storm Horns questgivers can no longer provide their Epic reward list.

This is being worked on by a quest system engineer, and will be corrected in a future patch. Sorry for the inconvenience!Cool. Thanks for the quick response, Feather.

[djl]

Hopefully this is fixed sooner rather than later, as it really detracts from what little reason there was to run those quests in the first place.

[Cordovan]

Hopefully this is fixed sooner rather than later, as it really detracts from what little reason there was to run those quests in the first place.

The current goal is to correct this in the next patch (the same one I mentioned yesterday in regards to some potential Mabar changes.) We hope to have more information about the "when" of the next patch soon.

[patang01]

The current goal is to correct this in the next patch (the same one I mentioned yesterday in regards to some potential Mabar changes.) We hope to have more information about the "when" of the next patch soon.

Please oh pretty please just make sure nothing else breaks. Lets work on fixing all the compounding problems before you guys create new ways of breaking stuff. Like this raid counter - bad idea. Not tested enough and even after trying to fix it twice it's still broken. Secret doors; as far as I can tell in shadow army is still borked.

Now my bow is kaput and every time you guys end up creating something new, you get ripple effects through the entire system. I dig some of the new ideas but I wish you guys listened more to us about the consequences. I mean - here I am willing to pay you guys for entertaining me, but every time I log in after an update and patch now a days I find another shard for profit idea, devaluing of the shardAH and more broken stuff.

This worries me, because yesterday I felt so burnt out by the problems, empty lfm and the pointless destiny grind that I started playing something else. And it feels like I keep testing the value of the many years I've played this game against the value of doing something else.

Maj used to write that he was really mad about all the issues and reoccurring problems after MOTU. That was a while back and little has changed since. The new reporting system is borked - which was a large reason why you changed to this forum format. Age old problems are still there and new ones are adding up.

So I don't mind more patches, but it feels like we're walking sideways here and sometime backwards. I don't doubt Turbines desire to fix things and make us all enthusiastic and all, but sometimes I think you guys need to stop and listen. Like you did with EGH. It's in your best interest to keep the wheels spinning and us here and in our interest to foresee a future for DDO. But I gotta tell you. We're not in happy days are here territory.

[debo]

With Update 19, we released some new technology in the quest system that allowed us to set the questgiver up in a way where they knew if you had completed the quest on Heroic or Epic, and provide rewards accordingly. Unfortunately, as an unforeseen side-effect, it caused issues with raid completion tracking.
All of that code has since been reverted to fix the raid issues, so Wheloon and Storm Horns questgivers can no longer provide their Epic reward list.

This is being worked on by a quest system engineer, and will be corrected in a future patch. Sorry for the inconvenience!

Wow truly makes the following statement of 1 step forward 2 steps back completely true.
Why is stuff like this not tested? I have heard in the past it said that it was fixed on your local pc's/games and the break happens again on live, but since that hasn't worked for years, why is another system not worked out?

[EllisDee37]

The current goal is to correct this in the next patch (the same one I mentioned yesterday in regards to some potential Mabar changes.) We hope to have more information about the "when" of the next patch soon.Oh, sweet!

The fix to challenge kobolds not smelling teleporters/ddoor was said to have already been fixed internally. Does that mean it's already included in whatever the next patch will be?

[ericrd]

With Update 19, we released some new technology in the quest system that allowed us to set the questgiver up in a way where they knew if you had completed the quest on Heroic or Epic, and provide rewards accordingly. Unfortunately, as an unforeseen side-effect, it caused issues with raid completion tracking.
All of that code has since been reverted to fix the raid issues, so Wheloon and Storm Horns questgivers can no longer provide their Epic reward list.

This is being worked on by a quest system engineer, and will be corrected in a future patch. Sorry for the inconvenience!

thank you very much for your explantion, the release of details helps us (the player base) put it in context

some of us realize that nothing is as easy as it seems with limited resources and multiple projects

hopefully details(when possible) will continue be diseminated when things like this occur

while nothing can sooth some people.....a majority are more realalistic....when you give us a chance

[Gratch]

Since FoS moved over from treasure to PRE design our top end choices seem to have suffered a bit. Any chance the new treasure dev is taking requests from the forum crowd on updates?

L28 mabar item upgrades?

Now that Eveningstar challenge ingreds are recosted and BTA ingredients, a few more upgradable named items from those traders (up to L28) plus some better constraints on the "randomish Cormyrian items" those vendors reward. Or maybe make it so the vendor produces 3-5 "random L28 Cormyrian items" and you select one for your trade in.

L28 upgrades on ToD rings/equipment while you redo that item setup to match the redone enhancement setup? Might as well make an epic adventure pack in the Demons side of Amrath to do the upgrading... while you're at it. The demongod <INSERT EVIL NAME> has seen the portal connection between FR and EB and is doing diabolical things with it. Stop him and upgrade PRE-specific rings/equipment sets. That kind of thing.

Also 3 words: Epic Shroud Crafting.

[maddong]

All of that code has since been reverted to fix the raid issues, so Wheloon and Storm Horns questgivers can no longer provide their Epic reward list.

Could you just tell us what loot level +4 unbound non upgrade tomes drop at now so we know if they are worth running for heroic end rewards? Is it level 31?

[Silken-Akira]

Personally, I like to thanks for the transparent replies we got.
And also want to state that at this stage there is no proper balance anymore for them to do really good.
this user community all wants something different( the new vs the longterm, the hardcore vs the casual, etc). The whole game is also a lot more expanded than it was in the beginning and so more complex.
But we users want innovation and we want it fast. So can they do thorough testing... off course. are we willing to wait that long...Hell no.

So getting transparent insight and giving back useful suggestions in a positive way is the best we can expect from the and ourself.

Let us first proof we can do better then just moan about every single thing.

[djl]

The current goal is to correct this in the next patch (the same one I mentioned yesterday in regards to some potential Mabar changes.) We hope to have more information about the "when" of the next patch soon.

Thank you very much for the swift and concise response :-)

[QuantumFX]

This is being worked on by a quest system engineer, and will be corrected in a future patch. Sorry for the inconvenience! And when complete, will be applied to other quest chains that have both Heroic and Epic settings.

FTFY. Because, you’re good at your job. Right? Right?

[redspecter23]

With Update 19, we released some new technology in the quest system that allowed us to set the questgiver up in a way where they knew if you had completed the quest on Heroic or Epic, and provide rewards accordingly. Unfortunately, as an unforeseen side-effect, it caused issues with raid completion tracking.
All of that code has since been reverted to fix the raid issues, so Wheloon and Storm Horns questgivers can no longer provide their Epic reward list.

This is being worked on by a quest system engineer, and will be corrected in a future patch. Sorry for the inconvenience!

How about in each end chest give a widget of some sort. Add an NPC that allows you to trade this widget for one of the static items? You could have one NPC with a barter box big enough for all the static items and various widgets for trade in. I can't help but feel that tinkering with end reward lists and tracking epic/non epic just isn't the simplest way to do what you need to do here. This solution also allows people that don't care for the static items a chance at a full reward list instead of just 3 or 4 items and what ends up being 3 pieces of static trash after the first run or two.

[redspecter23]

Could you just tell us what loot level +4 unbound non upgrade tomes drop at now so we know if they are worth running for heroic end rewards? Is it level 31?

+1 for asking it straight up. Players want to know what's going on here.

[Vellrad]

The current goal is to correct this in the next patch (the same one I mentioned yesterday in regards to some potential Mabar changes.) We hope to have more information about the "when" of the next patch soon.

Make each quest drop btc barter item, separate for each quest, which can't be passed in chest to anyone (like guild XP), or is automatically given to inventory (like phylactery after wiz king), but can instead be bartered with an NPC for an epic item that was previously found in quest reward, or a random item, or guild XP (to emulate quest completion).

Here, a quick way to mitigate bug, until a proper solution is implemented.

[BOgre]

and the break happens again on live, but since that hasn't worked for years, why is another system not worked out?

Because they have stubbornly failed to embrace a closed loop, measurable, continually improving, documentation system. Or, if they HAVE implemented such, they are not following it. Or, if they ARE following it, their dev turnover is so high that the system can't keep up. Or, some decision maker up the chain has deprioritized quality control.

Whatever the specific cause, it boils down to a lack of dedication to quality. There DO exist software developers that DO NOT suffer these kinds of continually recurring issues. And that's because they know they need to funnel an appropriate level of their incoming $$ into closing those holes. If Turbine thinks that they can get by by doing only what they have been doing, then this situation won't change. Only by accepting the fact that they MUST put $/people/systems/resources into this will they ever have any hope of improving.

[djl]

Because they have stubbornly failed to embrace a closed loop, measurable, continually improving, documentation system. Or, if they HAVE implemented such, they are not following it. Or, if they ARE following it, their dev turnover is so high that the system can't keep up. Or, some decision maker up the chain has deprioritized quality control.

Whatever the specific cause, it boils down to a lack of dedication to quality. There DO exist software developers that DO NOT suffer these kinds of continually recurring issues. And that's because they know they need to funnel an appropriate level of their incoming $$ into closing those holes. If Turbine thinks that they can get by by doing only what they have been doing, then this situation won't change. Only by accepting the fact that they MUST put $/people/systems/resources into this will they ever have any hope of improving.

It's probably not Turbine's decision to make. It's WB.

WB realizes this is a niche game with a declining population, and as such, they aren't going to funnel more resources than are necessary for the bare necessities; that is, update development. It is not in WB's interest if content has bugs or not, they probably couldn't care less. What they want is for Turbine to rush out as many Adventure Packs/Expansions as they can to make as much money as possible before the game's inevitable death.

[AuraAten]

This is being worked on by a quest system engineer, and will be corrected in a future patch. Sorry for the inconvenience!

Sorry for the inconvenience?!? REALLY? Now I am not one to complain about anything really, I have played this game for only 3 1/2 years. But I did pay good money for this expansion, I dont think it is as good as the first. This is not my complaint though. The fact that a "sorry for the inconvenience" is what is given in response to something that has a serious effect on our gameplay is what has my blood boiling. I have tried to support the programming staff here but this is too much!

[BOgre]

It's probably not Turbine's decision to make. It's WB.

WB realizes this is a niche game with a declining population, and as such, they aren't going to funnel more resources than are necessary for the bare necessities; that is, update development. It is not in WB's interest if content has bugs or not, they probably couldn't care less. What they want is for Turbine to rush out as many Adventure Packs/Expansions as they can to make as much money as possible before the game's inevitable death.

I always giggle when I see this excuse.

1st, if WB is micromanaging their child companies this way, they're doomed. I refuse to believe WB is that dense.

2nd, "WB's interest..." WB should not be "realizing" that DDO has a declining population. D&D, has a GROWING population. MMOs have a GROWING population. RPGs have a GROWING population. There is no de facto reason for DDO to have a declining population, except for a corresponding decline in the Quality of the game. What WB, or Turbine, should be "realizing" is that the way for a game to retain longevity is to funnel resources into update development. It is a bare necessity. I guarantee that they "realized" that on day one when they decided to become a game dev in the 1st place.

Finally, no one at Turbine-DDO wants to lose their job. No one would be working there if they believed the axe could fall at any time, due to their product's "inevitable" death. If DDO's quality is declining, it's purely the fault of poor management. It's ALWAYS the leadership's fault. Period. The game's "death" is not inevitable. Is D&D's death inevitable? Certainly not. So if anyone at Turbine or WB is working off that presumption, their superiors are to blame for not signing their pink slips; whether that person is a code monkey or a VP.

So wake up Turbine, and get back to giving a **** about your product.

[burningwind]

D&D, has a GROWING population. MMOs have a GROWING population. RPGs have a GROWING population.

if they fix bugs.. such as druid(which they left there for over one year) am sure more will come back.. if they implement more rightful content(such as more deity choice) am sure there will be growing population.. but no.. their eye are all on our wallet.. they rather spend hours to make some package for sale, then spend few minute to implement some simple stuff that people want... sigh

p.s. if they want they could implement more deity/deity weapon within hours.. but no.. many years have come by there are still these deity.. plus one new faerun deity. it is like suddenly dnd greater domain are all dead, only handful survive.. turbine version of time of trouble? i think so..

[Charononus]

if they fix bugs.. such as druid(which they left there for over one year).

Huh? are you calling the class a bug?

[burningwind]

Huh? are you calling the class a bug?

druid have many bugs.. i have list all of them during beta.. nothing get fixed.. this time i return i notice they still exist... so i made another list..(though most of them were forgotten) you can search for it on the forum.. if you don't know about about those bugs.

[Charononus]

druid have many bugs.. i have list all of them during beta.. nothing get fixed.. this time i return i notice they still exist... so i made another list..(though most of them were forgotten) you can search for it on the forum.. if you don't know about about those bugs.

There is the mcl bug from seasons herald however I really can't think of anything else. And that's not limited to druids, sorcs have complained about things not improving theirs like tod sets for even longer.

[burningwind]

There is the mcl bug from seasons herald however I really can't think of anything else. And that's not limited to druids, sorcs have complained about things not improving theirs like tod sets for even longer.

i guess you don't play druid much..hmm the post have been delete it seem.. oh well...

let me give you a few example..

pet wolf enhancement- take down, howl. you ever seen these working?

druid spell: pack series.. how many of these actually working?

p.s. sorry i no longer play druid... after i done the test.. this time i return.. i remove that toon in anger.. i was hoping they would atleast done something about it.. but nothing were fixed.. there are plenty more bug, though i don't really remember, nor do i care to recall again... so tired.. six years or waiting.. they give us "druid"... another one years of waiting.. and they leave it broken as ever..

[EllisDee37]

Creeping Cold suppresses all other cold dot effects: niac's biting cold, even other druids' creeping cold.

[Charononus]

i guess you don't play druid much..hmm the post have been delete it seem.. oh well...

let me give you a few example..

pet wolf enhancement- take down, howl. you ever seen these working?

druid spell: pack series.. how many of these actually working?

p.s. sorry i no longer play druid... after i done the test.. this time i return.. i remove that toon in anger.. i was hoping they would atleast done something about it.. but nothing were fixed.. there are plenty more bug, though i don't really remember, nor do i care to recall again... so tired.. six years or waiting.. they give us "druid"... another one years of waiting.. and they leave it broken as ever..

Don't use pets, hate them, as bad as hirelings so I never pull out my druid or arti dog unless I need to hit a lever like in pop. So yeah don't know about howl or the pack spells.


Creeping Cold suppresses all other cold dot effects: niac's biting cold, even other druids' creeping cold.
That's been bad with so little dev comment I've started to think of that as wai.

[burningwind]

Don't use pets, hate them, as bad as hirelings so I never pull out my druid or arti dog unless I need to hit a lever like in pop. So yeah don't know about howl or the pack spells.


That's been bad with so little dev comment I've started to think of that as wai.

for splash build it might not be a big deal.. but personally i love pet.. always want my animal companion following me...too bad we don't get to choose which type of companion.. sigh.. only two type of animal form.. only fire and water elemental...(they aren't really elemental....more like half elemental breed..)

[Charononus]

for splash build it might not be a big deal.. but personally i love pet.. always want my animal companion following me...too bad we don't get to choose which type of companion.. sigh.. only two type of animal form.. only fire and water elemental...(they aren't really elemental....more like half elemental breed..)

I have 2 druids atm a wolf/monk and a pure caster. The caster is focused on cc thru earthquake and nerve venom. I've got his dog in blackscale and using gravewrapping or eknuckles. The dog costs more in sp to heal than it would for me to replicate his damage with my sp, so he's a complete waste even with very good gear.

[burningwind]

I have 2 druids atm a wolf/monk and a pure caster. The caster is focused on cc thru earthquake and nerve venom. I've got his dog in blackscale and using gravewrapping or eknuckles. The dog costs more in sp to heal than it would for me to replicate his damage with my sp, so he's a complete waste even with very good gear.

shouldn't use him as a tank.. i give my dog grave wraping.. and it become a negative level machine.. help alot again high save enemy..

p.s. if wolf can takedown.. if pack buff work(especially the knock down on natural 20 one).. it will become very decent in cc... sadly... most of the content are broken.. which may be the reason of why you don't find your wolf to be useful..

[Charononus]

shouldn't use him as a tank.. i give my dog grave wraping.. and it become a negative level machine.. help alot again high save enemy..

p.s. if wolf can takedown.. if pack buff work(especially the knock down on natural 20 one).. it will become very decent in cc... sadly... most of the content are broken.. which may be the reason of why you don't find your wolf to be useful..

I find it partly useless as the ai is the same as hirelings, darts ahead at bad times, goes brain dead at others, up time for it functioning properly is 20% or so in my experience the rest of the time it's something you need to heal or it takes some hp and sp from you when it dies.

[burningwind]

I find it partly useless as the ai is the same as hirelings, darts ahead at bad times, goes brain dead at others, up time for it functioning properly is 20% or so in my experience the rest of the time it's something you need to heal or it takes some hp and sp from you when it dies.

well true.. but better then nothing.. love pet class personally =)..

anywayz.. hope they fix this expansion reward system soon... ****... i don't know what to do without all these gears.. T_T

[etelan]

How about just making it always drop the epic version until it's fixed. 9 of 10 people will be able to get the version they are looking for.

[visibleman]

Also 3 words: Epic Shroud Crafting.

In a thread where one of the main topics is stuff being broken, not tested properly etc, I can't believe anyone would ask for this.

If they touch the vale, it will be broken.

A beellion times NO!