Boredom Question - Human Paladin Artificer?

[Catas]

First I have to say: I DO NOT CURRENTLY WANT TO TR THIS CHARACTER

OK ... So I have a L20 Paladin I am getting a little bored with (pure THF Paladin) and have a +20 LR that's been staring at me.

Because of the restrictions associated with the +20 LR I am going to be stuck staying with Human and Lawful Good. Side note: VIP, Eveningstar, Arty and FVS unlocked

I would like to have trap skills on the new character so that means Rogue or Artificer (would like to try Arti)...

I've seen the Juggernaut builds for Warforged which look really interesting but cant go WF (not sure if viable as Human since everyone pushes WF Artificer)

Ive also looked at a few Evasion Pally (pally/fighter/rogue) builds....

So the question becomes using a Lawful Good Human 32pt build as a starting point, what are some suggestions with pros/cons for a build on this guy...

required: survival, self healing, traps/open lock, UMD, would like to be THF as well

Trying to make the most out of a restricted situation so thanks for the info.

Catas

[Livmo]

First I have to say: I DO NOT CURRENTLY WANT TO TR THIS CHARACTER

OK ... So I have a L20 Paladin I am getting a little bored with (pure THF Paladin) and have a +20 LR that's been staring at me.

Because of the restrictions associated with the +20 LR I am going to be stuck staying with Human and Lawful Good. Side note: VIP, Eveningstar, Arty and FVS unlocked

I would like to have trap skills on the new character so that means Rogue or Artificer (would like to try Arti)...

I've seen the Juggernaut builds for Warforged which look really interesting but cant go WF (not sure if viable as Human since everyone pushes WF Artificer)

Ive also looked at a few Evasion Pally (pally/fighter/rogue) builds....

So the question becomes using a Lawful Good Human 32pt build as a starting point, what are some suggestions with pros/cons for a build on this guy...

required: survival, self healing, traps/open lock, UMD, would like to be THF as well

Trying to make the most out of a restricted situation so thanks for the info.

Catas

I say its a good idea. WF are overated for an arty. Its better to be a cyborg in my opinion (human taking Construct Essence feat). I would take 2 levels of paladin and 2 levels of monk or rouge if you want evasion. Personally I feel evesaion is overrated as well, but that is a topic for another day.

Keep in mind that less arty levels impacts the viablity of the arty dog. Also, when you take those other class levels can make a difference as well.

Don't worry about spot (wis) if INT (search) ends up high, because you cand find traps better with search.

I can't rember this part, but if you go lawful good pali/arty you can purify shires like in Lords of Dust?

[Ralmeth]

First I have to say: I DO NOT CURRENTLY WANT TO TR THIS CHARACTER

OK ... So I have a L20 Paladin I am getting a little bored with (pure THF Paladin) and have a +20 LR that's been staring at me.

Because of the restrictions associated with the +20 LR I am going to be stuck staying with Human and Lawful Good. Side note: VIP, Eveningstar, Arty and FVS unlocked

I would like to have trap skills on the new character so that means Rogue or Artificer (would like to try Arti)...

I've seen the Juggernaut builds for Warforged which look really interesting but cant go WF (not sure if viable as Human since everyone pushes WF Artificer)

Ive also looked at a few Evasion Pally (pally/fighter/rogue) builds....

So the question becomes using a Lawful Good Human 32pt build as a starting point, what are some suggestions with pros/cons for a build on this guy...

required: survival, self healing, traps/open lock, UMD, would like to be THF as well

Trying to make the most out of a restricted situation so thanks for the info.

Catas

If you primarily want to play a THF, DPS focused Paladin with trapping ability, then I would think Rogue would be much stronger so you can have evasion for some extra survivability and to help you while trapping. I would probably go 15 levels of Paladin, 3-4 levels of rogue for your trapping skills and evasion, and 1-2 levels of fighter for feats and some Kensai enhancements.

[unbongwah]

WF arty and Evasion are overrated? Somebody sure is jaded! :rolleyes:

Construct Essence is a trap (IMHO); yes, you can (partially) repair yourself, but you're also taking a penalty to all positive energy healing which comes your way. Plus you're already lvl 20; if/when you LR and add UMD, you ought to be able to Heal-scroll yourself.

The main question is: do you want to stay mostly-pally for higher-level spells like Zeal and higher-tier KotC/SD abilities; or do you want something more heavily-MCed?

[mna]

I can't rember this part, but if you go lawful good pali/arty you can purify shires like in Lords of Dust?

I believe that's an option to all who have the Religious Lore feat, so yes, 1 level of Paladin should suffice, I think?
Alignment, by itself, probably doesn't matter as a True Neutral Bard can purify those too.


(Alignment is more of a hindrance in this case as bards have plenty of UMD and self-heal/survival things available, and a decent amount of skill points... but can't be Lawful, so can't be LR'd from Paladin.)

[Livmo]

WF arty and Evasion are overrated? Somebody sure is jaded! :rolleyes:

Construct Essence is a trap (IMHO); yes, you can (partially) repair yourself, but you're also taking a penalty to all positive energy healing which comes your way. Plus you're already lvl 20; if/when you LR and add UMD, you ought to be able to Heal-scroll yourself.

The main question is: do you want to stay mostly-pally for higher-level spells like Zeal and higher-tier KotC/SD abilities; or do you want something more heavily-MCed?

Hahahaha you got me un :D

I am jaded. I will just let a out little. When I cannot find or disable a trap (box blows up) I just find a way around it. In my world I can evade every trap in the game with just some thought and the keyboard without the feats. My evasion is often times jump (or series of hops) or mouse look (love sidestepping lightening bolts and such), and timing. Of course it can be even easier with gear such as Cannith Propolsion Boots, etc.

Where I got jaded was doing quests above level in parties where the box blew or the level was to high for me to even find with search. I show the party how to get around the trap and keep moving with out dam. They refuse to budge and claim we need a trapper. You don't need a trapper in this game even though its my bread and butter! I just showed you 3 times live how to avoid this particular trap. Stop whining and keep moving. You are making slowmo arty look like a zerger. Shame on you!

OK you got me. Deep breath. Thank you for the therapy, because I've wanted to say that for a long time. No evasion and I do EE content.

Sincere thank you un. I owe you one. I feel allot better now that I finally said it.

[Darkrok]

Construct Essence is a trap (IMHO); yes, you can (partially) repair yourself, but you're also taking a penalty to all positive energy healing which comes your way. Plus you're already lvl 20; if/when you LR and add UMD, you ought to be able to Heal-scroll yourself.

The main question is: do you want to stay mostly-pally for higher-level spells like Zeal and higher-tier KotC/SD abilities; or do you want something more heavily-MCed?

I agree with all of this. Construct Essence is definitely a trap. Especially on a human that can boost positive amp so easily.

I'd be very tempted to do something with 15 paladin rather than 16 arti/2 xxx (probably fighter or monk)/2 paladin. Not sure what weapons you have available but 15 paladin/3 rogue/2 monk could make an interesting centered stick fighter. Would be very tight on feats but if you gave up the THF line (which isn't as attractive if you do a lot of cleaving with staves) you could fit in PA->Cleave->Great Cleave, Adept of Forms->Master of Forms, Improved Critical: Bludgeoning easily. You'd actually have 4 more heroic feats so you could conceivably fit in Grand Master of Forms and the entire THF line if you wanted. Henshin gives some nice stuff for staves, Shintao some healing amp and more PRR in earth stance, and Thief-Acrobat some additional staff boosts (including 15% staff attack speed, an attack that gives 25% morale boost to doublestrike, haste boost, and an extra 3[w] cleave with a trip chance in Sweeping Strikes. Biggest problem with that build would be too many good spots to spend AP...it would be very difficult to go deep into any tree because of how many good options there are. Temptation with that build would be to go dex-based since it's available from rogue 3 to get dex to damage/hit with staves but I'd probably pass on that. You'll want to qualify for Overwhelming Critical and that means getting the strength to 18 naturally if you've got a +5 tome if you're dex-based. Strength-based that becomes much less of an issue. Also, earth stance would take away 2 dex...not a big deal but str-based benefits there as well.

[Darkrok]

Just as an aside though: while I mentioned that 15 paladin/3 rogue/2 monk build for a stick-fighter I wouldn't personally play it if I wanted to get traps. You can build that toon to get traps but I think you sacrifice too much to have enough int for the skill points and keeping UMD, Disable, and Search maxed out. You'd want Heal as well, Concentration...just a lot of skills on a toon that's going to be getting 2 skill points + int modifier + 1 (human) for the majority of its levels. I like the toon but I'd build it to just get the traps at low levels, have just enough open locks to open the easy stuff with items, and just keep UMD, Heal, and Concentration maxed. That's 4 skill points per level that's not a rogue level meaning we could get by with 8 starting int and a +2 tome on a human. Again, you could certainly make it work with a better starting int, better tomes, etc, but I don't like feeling that constrained on skills. It's why I love my drow pure rogue int-based assassin - all the skill points! :)

[Panzermeyer]

I've seen the Juggernaut builds for Warforged which look really interesting but cant go WF (not sure if viable as Human since everyone pushes WF Artificer)

Arties are definitely not feat starved.

I refuse to play a warforged as a personal preference.

My arty is a human arty, and I took construct essence. With a Ring of the Master Artifice, and whatever the heal else I have for repair my repair spell power is somewhere at or around 200. I repair/heal myself for anywhere from 300-600. I have absolutely no problem with self healing.

And a healer can heal me quite well, though of course the percentage really sucks.

Personally I was planning on TRing my Artie into a Dwarf Juggernaught build with Rune Arm/Dwarven Axe build. Details are to come but that is the plan.

I don't think you would have any problem with self-healing with Construct Essence on a Human build.

So play around with it and make the build your own. But I don't think you would have any trouble with a Human Juggernaught.

[Livmo]

Arties are definitely not feat starved.

I refuse to play a warforged as a personal preference.

My arty is a human arty, and I took construct essence. With a Ring of the Master Artifice, and whatever the heal else I have for repair my repair spell power is somewhere at or around 200. I repair/heal myself for anywhere from 300-600. I have absolutely no problem with self healing.

And a healer can heal me quite well, though of course the percentage really sucks.

Personally I was planning on TRing my Artie into a Dwarf Juggernaught build with Rune Arm/Dwarven Axe build. Details are to come but that is the plan.

I don't think you would have any problem with self-healing with Construct Essence on a Human build.

So play around with it and make the build your own. But I don't think you would have any trouble with a Human Juggernaught.

I do fine in all the content and great at self healing as well as a cyborg. Sometimes I don't take Construct Essence until I got all the ranged feats I want first. Then when I do I'm always pleased. Likewise, I pump up my repair skill. Hopefully I will get some repair skill tome drops sooner or later.

This is an assumption on my part, so please forgive me. I feel that folks dis the Construct Essence sometimes, because they don't get their repair skill up high enough to make it worthwhile. I consider myself fortunate that when I started playing arty a TR'ed uber DDO aficaindo helped me fix some of my build mistakes and one of them was I did not have my repair up high enough. Furthermore, that player didn't just tell me my build was wrong, but why, and why it could be improved upon. The obvious way is not always the right way it seems in this game. To the player whom helped me so much with that chat Mahalo!

On the side note, I'm fiddling with half orc melee arty witha focus on great ax. I'm ponderin' Construct Essence to see how it would pan our for that race.