Post u19 Monkcher please

[RumbIe]

So I have a level 23 bard that I am not enjoying playing right now and a free +20 LR so I'm thinking of making a few more attempts at a pinion then LR-ing to a ranger (Is ranger the best past life to have?) and TR-ing to a monkcher. Actually I'm not opposed to another variant of AA either. I have 14 different characters and none are bow focused (except my arti) so I'm really excited about trying something different.

I have access to all races and classes. Heck I'd do a Horc AA if that was viable. No Horcs yet in my stable though I have access to the race) Let's assume I have +3 tomes. If I don't have the right one I'll buy it, but I'd rather not spend to get +4 tome right now. However if it's a must have to make a big difference on a 34 point build then so be it. I'll pony up for one.

I'm thinking STR based. I know that DEX based has been brought up a lot, but until they give an equivalent for Ram's Might and Primal Scream that bumps DEX I'm not sure it can compete (But I'd be glad to be proven wrong).

I'd also like to focus on range attacks most of the time and if need be jump in for a bit of melee, but only to regen ki if needed. I've seen all kinds of splits like 12 ranger, 8 monk or 12 ranger, 6 monk, 2 fighter or 12 monk 6 ranger 2 fighter or even a 16 ranger 4 fighter. I'm intrigued by them all, but think I'd like at least some monk splashed in.

I am also on the fence about HE, elf or human. (Or Horc. Where's the Horcs these days???? LOL)

Please help me out and hook me up with a detailed build with explanations. I loved how Anthios888 did builds. I have looked at the Sithali and I'm leaning towards it, but I don't know how it survived the update. I also don't know what the build looks like post u19 if it did. The OP hasn't been updated.

Thanks in advance

[sephiroth1084]

Well, I've been enjoying my monkcher much more post-u19 than pre.

He's a half-elf (but I'd change that to something else...human or elf probably) 12 monk/6 ranger/2 artifier.
Has UMD and trap skills (because I like trap skills, you don't need them) and Open Lock.

As far as stats go, if I were LRing/TRing him, I'd try to get enough Str for Overwhelming Critical in addition to the Dex for Combat Archery (just have CA right now), and then put most of the rest into Wis (I have a little Int to support the trap skills habit, but you could dump that).

If I had the tomes, I'd probably do something like:
Elf
Str 16 +2 lvls +5 tome = 23 for OC
Dex 16+5 tome = 21 for CA
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 16 +5 remaining lvls +5 tome +10 item +3 insight +1 exceptional +2 enhancements +2 Acute Instincts +2 Ship = 46 (I'd like this a little higher, but that would require ditching some other enhancements for more Wis, or twisting in +1 Wis, or spending epic feats on +1 Wis)...note that the Yugo Wis pots impose a -4 penalty to Reflex saves, which isn't thrilling, but if you don't mind, that's another +2. I carry them, but rarely use them with epic DCs being what they are, even with Improved Evasion
Cha 8

If you don't care about the extra skills, you could dump Int to improve Str, Dex, or Wis to ease tome requirements. Remember, though, that it's more efficient to spend a level up stat increase than to pay the 6 extra build points to go from a 16 to an 18. If I weren't interested in the In, I'd likely bump the elf's Dex to a starting 18 so I could put those 2 level points into Wis.

Max your Concentration and UMD. Put a point into Tumble (during a monk level when it's a class skill). If you want the trap skills things get more complicated, as you have to alternate when you're improving them...using Ranger levels for Search, and getting 1 or 2 ranger levels and a level of artificer at the end of the build to have enough skill points and as class skills to get Search and Disable Device close to maxed. My skills aren't high enough for EE, so I may end up dumping this eventually, but for EH, they work well. 4 ranks of Open Lock is enough (with items) to get most of the locks in the game.

Artificer 1 provides +1 level to scrolls, access to UMD, Open Lock, Disable Device as class skills, Wand and Scroll Mastery III, Rapid Reload (there was a thread a while back that demonstrated that RR provides a +5% attack speed boost to bows), and Enchant Weapon for a +1 attack/damage when you don't have a real artificer around (and can help out party casters with a +3 to their implement bonus). At the time that I rolled this guy up, you needed 2 Arti levels to get W&SM I, which is why I have the second level. You don't really need it, but neither ranger 7, nor monk 13 offer you anything either, besides a couple more HP. Having rune arm use was nice for the first few levels when I ran repeater + runearm until my archery skills came online.

Ranger and monk levels should be pretty self-explanatory for the most part.
Monk 7-12 gets you +10% movement speed, Improved Evasion, +3 AC, better Will save by a few points, Diamond Body, Wholeness of Body (useful more when soloing than when in a group), Master of Forms, and Abundant Step.

Ranger 7-12 gets you +1 Favored Enemy (and +2 damage to all), Improved Precise Shot (free; relevant if you decide to skip Combat Archery and dump Dex), and access to 2nd and 3rd level spells (notables are Barkskin, Cure Moderate Wounds, and Wild Instincts, none of which are amazing). The ranger 12 version is only preferable, as far as I'm concerned if you want to dump Dex, or really want higher Core abilities out of Deepwood Stalker or Arcane Archer, but AP is pretty tight, and you don't get to the really good stuff until you hit 18 ranger levels anyway.

Feats: 3 monk, 7 standard (8 if human), Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Manyshot free for a total of 10 selectable (11 if human)

Point Blank Shot
Zen Archery
Dodge
10K Stars
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Improved Critical
Improved Precise Shot
Precision


Enhancements are largely a matter of taste here, but I'd recommend going to Core III for both AA and DWS, getting Arrow of Slaying from AA, and getting Paralyzing Arrows as well (even with the poor DC, with the rate of fire you'll be shooting at between Manyshot and 10K Stars, you'll get things rolling 1s fairly often). From DWS I recommend Stealthy III for +1d6 Sneak Attack die. In Ninja Spy, I like Shadow Veil, but you don't have to pick it up; I recommend getting Stealthy III for +1 Ki gen while sneaking, Acrobatic III for 3% Dodge, as many ranks as you can afford (after everything else) of Sneak Attack Training, and any Agility if you have more than 25% Dodge. In Henshin, pick up Animal Forms (Turtle) for the Concentration and HP, dump some other AP into the tier I ****, and pick up Contemplation III for +1 Ki gen. I recommend putting 1 point into Shintao for 5% healing amp. If I could find the AP, I'd love to get to Iron Skin but I don't think it's doable unless you give up the Henshin Ki gen (a possibility). Pick up at least +2 Wis in the trees, more if you feel like giving up other stuff or need to hit an even score--you want to get to at least a 42 Wis when using 10K Stars to have a chance of getting 4 arrows a shot, and higher is going to improve your arrows/shot.

On my build, I had no points available to spend in my half-elf tree (why I recommend a race that's providing more for you innately). Could rejigger the AP to free up some points for an elf tree investment, but it's tough.

For your Destiny, you want to be in Fury of the Wild with the capstone, Fury Eternal, Primal Scream (not a necessity) and Acute Instincts (helped by having Primal Scream) for the +2 Wis when raged (can also use rage potions, but their duration is terrible). I have twisted A Dance of Flowers for +1.5[W] damage, Enlightenment for 1 Ki gen, and Pin, because it's pretty good.

If you're keeping score, that's a passive Ki generation of +2, with another +1 available when sneaking, and another +1 when in Ocean Stance III (now easily done with all stances becoming available) for a situational +4. I never melee except to break down doors. When the party is buffing, swap to Ocean and stealth; when people are shrining do the same. When you know that you've got some time between fights do the same. If you're concerned about keeping up with the party, you can pick up some Faster Sneaking ranks (even 3 ranks has you pretty close to normal run speed thanks to the speed bonus in monk), or just run in Ocean stance. This may be a little overkill, but it lets me use Shadow Veil on occasion when needed (if I get aggro from something that hits hard), and Abundant Step occasionally (whether for fun or in relevant situations). You could drop either Enlightenment or Contemplation and still be in good stead if you aren't using Ki for anything besides 10K Stars.

I've actually dropped Enlightenment to twist in Unearthly Reactions to hit 27% Dodge (the +6 Reflex and ability to get out of a tough spot are icing).

I had tried going primaryily DWS and got all of the tier 5 abilities, but it's simply not as strong as AA Slayer Arrows, especially with Adrenaline.

[Munkenmo]

Here's my Monkcher (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/311770-Rangenmo-a-monk-without-a-shuriken?p=5098462#post5098462)

Should be easy enough to follow if you like it.

[Zammied]

why cleave and great cleave??

[Limey]

To qualify for Overwhelming Critical

[Asmodeus451]

according to the Wiki, A Dance of Flowers doesnt work with Bows, even with Zen Archery. is that still the case?


also, i dont see 1 extra crit multiplier being worth 4 feats, 3 of which you'll never use on a archer. (PA, Cleave, GC)

even on the best bow (Pinion) it just ups it to a x4.

EDIT: tho i must admit, if A Dance of Flowers works on it, a 4[2d6] bow with x4 crit is smexy

[sephiroth1084]

With some limited observational testing, I'm fairly certain that A Dance with Flowers is working with bows, and several other posters seem confident in that summation as well.

Overwhelming Critical is pretty nice, but I'm also wondering whether it is worth spending 3 feats on. Right now, that's my intent. Also, if you ditch OC you don't need so much Str, which is also a small plus for dropping those feats. If I weren't bothering with OC, I'd probably start with 13 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 14 Int, 17 Wis, 8 Cha, as I can live with losing 3 points of damage (difference between 13 and 18 Str) to get another small boost to 10K Stars procs.

The considerations, though, are what would you spend those feats on otherwise, and what would you take with your other epic feat at that level?

There's a build up for a halfling monkcher who spends those feats on Quicken, Dragonmark, and something else (can't recall what), which seems a solid investment. What else would you spend the feats on?

[Munkenmo]

according to the Wiki, A Dance of Flowers doesnt work with Bows, even with Zen Archery. is that still the case?


also, i dont see 1 extra crit multiplier being worth 4 feats, 3 of which you'll never use on a archer. (PA, Cleave, GC)

even on the best bow (Pinion) it just ups it to a x4.

EDIT: tho i must admit, if A Dance of Flowers works on it, a 4[2d6] bow with x4 crit is smexy

Dance of flowers does work with bows now.

The best bow is Situational.

EG when furyshotting, I use the Bow of Sinew :
*3 crit base
+1 19-20 elasticity
+1 19-20 Earth III / IV
+1 Overwhelming critical

Monkchers aren't exactly feat starved anymore. There's little reason not to take overwhelming critical. The difference is huge during when using fury shot / adrenaline.

[cdr]

Mo's build is right on the money for the most part. Feats and enhs need a little work IMO. I took Precision where he has Deflect Arrows and then took Blinding Speed. Holy Strike and Doubleshot where he has Toughnesses.

I like 2 fvs better than 2 druid, but that's dps vs crowd control. Personal preference.

I like human better than elf, but it's pretty close. With human you have to be willing to stand closer, since you're down ~8 meters in PBS range.

Gear thread: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431335-Monkcher-gear-questions

[sephiroth1084]

Dance of flowers does work with bows now.

The best bow is Situational.

EG when furyshotting, I use the Bow of Sinew :
*3 crit base
+1 19-20 elasticity
+1 19-20 Earth III / IV
+1 Overwhelming critical

Monkchers aren't exactly feat starved anymore. There's little reason not to take overwhelming critical. The difference is huge during when using fury shot / adrenaline.
You'd be better off using Pinion in basically every circumstance. The bonus to Elasticity only applies if you roll a 19 or 20, while your big bonus to crit range from Adrenaline means you'll be criting on a lot more than that, for which Pinion is MUCH better (5d6 base damage, before applying other +[W] effects, +2 Seeker, vs. 1d8 base, or 1.5[1d8]...can't recall what the new base is, and the DDOwiki isn't updated with that info).

[Munkenmo]

You'd be better off using Pinion in basically every circumstance. The bonus to Elasticity only applies if you roll a 19 or 20, while your big bonus to crit range from Adrenaline means you'll be criting on a lot more than that, for which Pinion is MUCH better (5d6 base damage, before applying other +[W] effects, +2 Seeker, vs. 1d8 base, or 1.5[1d8]...can't recall what the new base is, and the DDOwiki isn't updated with that info).

Don't get me wrong, the majority of the time I do have my Pinion Equipped. But not when furyshotting.

[sephiroth1084]

Don't get me wrong, the majority of the time I do have my Pinion Equipped. But not when furyshotting.

I didn't get you wrong. That's what I meant: you're still better off using Pinion when Furyshotting: it has a higher base damage (by quite a lot), higher Seeker, additional damage effects, Hasted attack speed (if you aren't otherwise Hasted), and you're going to be critting on rolls of 2-20...do you want to sacrifice all of the extra damage you'd be doing on rolls of 2-18, for an extra crit multiplier on those of 19-20?

[TheLegendOfAra]

I didn't get you wrong. That's what I meant: you're still better off using Pinion when Furyshotting: it has a higher base damage (by quite a lot), higher Seeker, additional damage effects, Hasted attack speed (if you aren't otherwise Hasted), and you're going to be critting on rolls of 2-20...do you want to sacrifice all of the extra damage you'd be doing on rolls of 2-18, for an extra crit multiplier on those of 19-20?

It amazes me that after all these yars people still do not understand that the bow of sinew isn't better than pinion. It has been proven so many times, I don't get how this misinformation is still out there...

[Munkenmo]

It amazes me that after all these yars people still do not understand that the bow of sinew isn't better than pinion. It has been proven so many times, I don't get how this misinformation is still out there...

The bow of sinew can overtake the pinion if your base damage gets high enough.

Arguing aside though, I love seeing big numbers. When furyshotting the biggest numbers I can get are with the bow of sinew. Furyshot DPS is already so insane that I'm not worried in the slightest about losing out slightly on rolls between 2-18.

[Nightmanis]

Your base damage would have to be incredibly massive for it to overshadow pinion. Higher than is currently possible, I think.

That being said yes, if all you want is massive numbers then Sinew is the way to go for that 10% of the time it will actually do it. Otherwise no, Pinion will always be better.