Tring into a Sorc. My first time, would like some help/tips

[Reiq]

Fairly used to the arcane, since I've played through 2 Wiz lives so far.
Getting really tierd of DC casting and low damage (been playing pure 20 wiz, i know there are some good dps wiz splashes).
Been reading through the forum for a while, and want to try eather the 18sorc/2fvs split, or the 16sorc/2fvs/2Pal.
Which one is the best? I allways tend to group up with others, so I want more DPS. But I dont see the use for 2 more sorc lvls since im not concerned with DC, which means Meteor Swarm will suck.
I'm a bit clueless to what to pick from the spells and feats here, since im not used to pure damage and fewer spells to pick.
Have not played Epic content yet, so I would love some help on what feats/other to pick from 20-28. I've only tried to build something from 1-20 since that's what I'm used to.

Here's what I've come up with: (Using the 18/2 here)

True Neutral - Warforged
18 Sorcerer / 2 FvS
Fire / Air Savant

12 Strength
8 Dexterity
18 Constitution
14 Intelligence
6 Wisdom
16 Charisma

Will MAX Concentration + Spellcraft + UMD. Rest in Repair + other since i have a +5 int tome.
Dont know what I'll end up with

Feats by order: Sorcerer level 1-8, FvS level 9-10, Sorcerer rest

Lvl 1: Toughness
Lvl 3: Extend
Lvl 6: Force of Personality
Lvl 9: Maximize
Lvl 12: Empower Spell
Lvl 15: Quicken Spell
Lvl 18: Mental Toughness (Should I get IMP for EMP? If so, I can switch out Extend maybe?)

Spells: Some comments on this list would be great, this is where I'm confused on what to take.

Lvl 1:
- Nightshield
- Jump
- Magic Missle
- Protection from Evil

Lvl 2:
- Resist Energy
- Scorching Ray
- Blur
- Scorch? Web?

Lvl 3:
- Haste
- Rage
- Chain Missle
- Protection from Energy? Fireball? Lightning Bolt? Displacement?

Lvl 4:
- Firewall
- Force Missles
- A bit clueless here; DDoor? Burning Blood? Fireshield?

Lvl 5:
- Protection from Elements
- Eladar's Electric Surge
- Break Enchantment
- ?

Lvl 6:
- Reconstruct
- Chain Lightning?
- ?

Lvl 7:
- Delayed Fireblast?
- PW: Blind?
- ?

Lvl 8:
- Incinerary Cloud
- PW: Stun?

Lvl 9:
- Meteor Swarm

[Daine]

Drop quicken, you're a sorc, you're auto quickened.

Drop mental toughness you get x2 spell points, you can pass 3000spell points at level 25 without any mental toughness feats.

Heighten

Displacement is critical to your survival, get it, keep it on. GH, stoneskin. You won't be a wizard anymore, you'll be an a@@-kicking, nuking sorc, get in the thick of it. You won't have a choice anyway, you AoE like a madman and they'll come for you, buff yourself for survival.

The extra 2 sorc levels get you the spells you need and more importantly the caster levels. You should consider either earth or ice. For me, I've always gone ice, polar ray is my go to spell: No saves, no spell resistance, double range, 1d3+3 per caster level damage. The maximum caster level can be shot through the roof, if you're not casting polar ray well past level 30, you're not trying to be a sorc. When you cast Polar Ray, which should always have Maximise AND Empower on you can one shot most critters at level. That's the sorceror experience, not CC and hanging back.

The pure sorc can be pretty one-dimensional, but when that single dimension is a dimension pure awesome destructive power, it can be pretty fun.

With the UMD and Pots you can get yourself out of most trouble. In raids where I sometimes let the melee's clear the trash I just hang back and help out the clerics with heal scrolls and cocoons whilst occasionally nuking any mob that seems it might cause a little trouble. Of course at Bosses its time for the big guns, you're pure nuking + a couple of DoT's (don't have just one) + and AoE effect + keeping the party hasted and raged and if necessary keeping mass protection from elements up - I call it pre-healing (harry in the shroud is a great place to do this).

Anyhow my two-cents worth, plenty of effective non-pure sorcs out there as well.

[Charononus]

Drop quicken, you're a sorc, you're auto quickened.


No you're not, you can still fail concentration checks and since a wf sorc is it's own healer you will need your reconstructs to go thru 100% of the time no matter what. Quicken doesn't need to be on for all spells but not having it is foolish in the extreme.

[Daine]

No you're not, you can still fail concentration checks and since a wf sorc is it's own healer you will need your reconstructs to go thru 100% of the time no matter what. Quicken doesn't need to be on for all spells but not having it is foolish in the extreme.

I would strongly disagree with this, speaking from personal experience. I've never missed having quicken at all, it doesn't affect my gameplay or casting, it just doesn't factor into my experience of being a sorceror at all. On my clerics I find it essential, it feels like they're casting underwater if I switch to them from my sorc.

Of course like the OP says he will, my sorc has a very high CON and also has maxxed concentration skills + gear. How about any other sorcs out there, you use quicken?

[Drwaz99]

How about any other sorcs out there, you use quicken?

Yes. But not on everything, that wastes SP. But in the case of long cast time spells and reconstruct I would absolutely.

[Daine]

Yes. But not on everything, that wastes SP. But in the case of long cast time spells and reconstruct I would absolutely.

Hmmm, maybe it's that my sorc is fleshy, I don't notice the lack of quicken, seeing as the OP is looking to play a WF perhaps I should bow to those better experienced in such.

[Soulfurnace]

Hmmm, maybe it's that my sorc is fleshy, I don't notice the lack of quicken, seeing as the OP is looking to play a WF perhaps I should bow to those better experienced in such.
Yeah, quicken on reconstruct. It's unlikely to fail (unless it's an EE boss, in which case fail = bad), but.. better safe than sorry.
For everything else, no real point.

[Drwaz99]

Hmmm, maybe it's that my sorc is fleshy, I don't notice the lack of quicken, seeing as the OP is looking to play a WF perhaps I should bow to those better experienced in such.

I play a fleshy one now but my past lives were all WF. It is nice to have with cocoon as you can whip a cast off very fast. It's also nice when you getting pelted by archers and pushed around by huge amount of monsters in the new EE content since they decided difficulty is directly related to 20+ mobs at once. Inevitably your going to fail a concentration cast at the most inopportune time.

Personally I also like to have it as an option to turn on say after I have died (gasp!) and need to quickly cast a bunch of buffs or a quick CC to avoid getting smothered right as I grab a raise.

[Reiq]

Why would I want caster lvls and Heighten if I'm not going for DC based damage?
afaik, the shiradi tree doesnt offer any dc to casting. And I'm not planning to go magister or draconic.

And going ice? going 2 fvs lvls would be a total waste, since fvs grants alot of power to force and fire spells.
Earth on the other hand can be viable. Eather that or Air, and since its my first time trying, im just gonna give Air a first try since people seem to favor it.
I will decide if I wanna go pure Sorc after I tried this one, since it has a good lvling proccess with nice selfheal and immunities.
Displacement is mandatory after thinking about it, but im not fully conviced about stoneskin and GH, since they are easy to grab through scrolls and wands.

sorry, but I can't make anything out of the posts so far :/

[Justicesar]

This works really good, mix spells as you like.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425269-The-Scorcher-(WF-18-Sorc-2-Fvs-Shiradi)

[Wizza]

I'll open saying that I go Fire/Electric on every life till Lv20 and I will make distinctions between lvling and endgame spells.



I will decide if I wanna go pure Sorc after I tried this one, since it has a good lvling proccess with nice selfheal and immunities.
Displacement is mandatory after thinking about it, but im not fully conviced about stoneskin and GH, since they are easy to grab through scrolls and wands.

sorry, but I can't make anything out of the posts so far :/

Stoneskin and GH are absolutely useless as spell in Epics (I mean, you can easily scroll them). In heroic, Stoneskin is kinda nice and can be swapped later easily.



Feats by order: Sorcerer level 1-8, FvS level 9-10, Sorcerer rest

Lvl 1: Toughness
Lvl 3: Extend
Lvl 6: Force of Personality
Lvl 9: Maximize
Lvl 12: Empower Spell
Lvl 15: Quicken Spell
Lvl 18: Mental Toughness (Should I get IMP for EMP? If so, I can switch out Extend maybe?)

The order here is wrong. Toughness, Empower, Maximize, Extend, Force of Personality/Quicken is much better for free SLAs early in the game. I'd also take Heighten while leveling and swap it later.



Lvl 2:
- Resist Energy
- Scorching Ray
- Blur
- Scorch? Web?

I'd take Knock but since you group a lot, Scorch is better. Web doesn't synergize well with Fire.



Lvl 3:
- Haste
- Rage
- Chain Missle
- Protection from Energy? Fireball? Lightning Bolt? Displacement?

Honestly, Chain Missile is not worth it when leveling. When leveling, go with: Haste, Rage, Displacement, Fireball (take this first). At cap, swap Fireball for Chain




Lvl 4:
- Firewall
- Force Missles
- A bit clueless here; DDoor? Burning Blood? Fireshield?

DDoor is awesome. The 4th one either Fireshield or Solid fog. Ice storm is also good because it slows enemy a lot. I personally go with Fireshield while leveling and Solid Fog at cap.



Lvl 5:
- Protection from Elements
- Eladar's Electric Surge
- Break Enchantment
- ?

Cloudkill. Swap Break Enchantment for Ball lightning since you going Fire/Electric.



Lvl 6:
- Reconstruct
- Chain Lightning?
- ?

Chain Lightning and Disintegrate



Lvl 7:
- Delayed Fireblast?
- PW: Blind?
- ?

Delayed, Waves of Exhaustion, whatever. While leveling, I care about DCs so I go with Finger of Death as 3rd spell.



Lvl 8:
- Incinerary Cloud
- PW: Stun?

Incendiary cloud doesn't stack with Firewall IIRC. I'd go with: Power word: Stun, Ottos irresistible dance, Symbol of Death.

[Reiq]

Snip...


Snip...

Thank you two, was exactly what I was looking for. :)

[thesnoman]

I'm mixed a bit on the advice given above, so I'll start by saying the following:

I'm on my third Sorc Live - the last 2 have been Shiradi focused.
I play an 18/2 with Pally splash - I'm not nearly as well versed with the FvS Splash, although I've played with it on Lama.

For info on my version of the 18/2 Pally splash go HERE (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423546-U19-Shiradi-Sorc-The-Good-the-bad-and-the-OMFG!!)

For the FvS Splash I suggest going Fire/Air since you will definitely be doing this for end game.

Since you're going WF ,(which you should), I'd suggest the following:

Starting Stat Points:

10 Str
10 Dex
18 Con
14 Int
6 Wis
16 Cha


All Stat Points from leveling should go into Charisma

Skill Points should go into the following:

23 Concentration
23 Spellcraft
11 Repair (22 points)
11 Perform (22 Points) - For Sonic Shiradi Procs
The rest can go into Haggle/Diplomacy/Bluff/UMD/Balance at your discretion.


Feats (You no longer need to take Max/Emp to get SLAs - Which you won't use at End Game anyhow):

Toughness
Mental Toughness
Maximize
Improved Mental Toughness
Empower
Quicken (You want to Quicken your Reconstructs)
Your Choice: Force of Personality? Dodge? PL:Arcane Initiate?

Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness give you an extra 1% Spell Crit in addition to the Spell Points

Levelling Spells and End Game Spells are very different - especially if you are going Shiradi. I'll try to give both:

Level 1

Burning Hands (swap out for Protection from Evil at level 4/5)
Magic Missile
Jump
Nightshield

Level 2

Resist Energy (swap for Invisibility later)
Scorching Ray
Blur (Swap for Gust of Wind when you can take Displacement so you can wipe away AOE spells)
Knock

Level 3

Haste
Rage (Swap for Chain Missile once you're in Shiradi)
Displacement
Fireball (Take this first and Swap for Lightning Bolt when things start evading FB)

Level 4

Dimension Door
Fire Wall (Swap for Solid Fog once you're in Shiradi ED)
Fire Shield (Swap for Ice Storm once you're in Shiradi ED)
Force Missiles

Level 5

Eldar's Electric Surge
Niac's Biting Cold
Ball Lightning
Prot. From Elements (Swap for Teleport if, like me, you're too lazy to carry scrolls once you can get Mass Prot. From Elements)

Level 6

Reconstruct
Chain Lightning
Disintegrate OR GH (I don't know how many people still expect a Sorc to carry GH even though it's an easy clickie to get so I still carry it)

Level 7

DB Fireball
Finger of Death (Swap to Prismatic Spray if your DCs are too low to land FoD)
Mass Prot. From Elements (so you don't have to carry Teleport Scrolls :D)

Level 8

Otto's Irresistible Dance
Symbol of Death

Level 9

Meteor Swarm



Enhancements will change as you level and when you get into Shiradi. AtomicMew has a great breakdown for end-game HERE (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423364-U19-shiradi-WF-sorc-build-primer-more-powerfuller-than-ever)


Hope this helps.

[Daine]

Why would I want caster lvls and Heighten if I'm not going for DC based damage?

im not fully conviced about stoneskin and GH, since they are easy to grab through scrolls and wands.

Take a look here: http://ddowiki.com/page/Sorcerer_/_Wizard_spells

Heighten will help spells from your list: Web, ball-lightning, cyclonic blast, chain lightning, delayed blast fireball, incendiary cloud

it will also help a few CC spells (though not the otto's) and some aoe debuffs.

As for SS and GH aside from the awesome survivability they give, especially stoneskin as an earth savant, if you PuG, it really doesn't take much to buff your group. The good will it generates is worth far more than the spell points you expend. I've almost never lost players in a chain PuG between adventures when I'm handing out SS, blur, GH, rage and haste. Sure I feel a little dirty, like Im their personal buffbot and it's nothing they couldnt do with clickies if they worked for it, but that's not the rule of PuG's. It also helps them to keep up, dont wait for everybody to catch up when you cast your buff cycle and those left behind will be sprinting to keep up with your awesomeness next time. Remember as a sorc, the rest of the party is just your 5-man meatshield for the boss, all you have to do is make sure they get there on time, happy, stupid and well fed on buffs! :)

[Wizza]

Feats (You no longer need to take Max/Emp to get SLAs - Which you won't use at End Game anyhow):


Poor advice.

Maximize and Empower may not be needed when you actually use Shiradi (see: AT ENDGAME; and I'd still take them) but they are almost a must when leveling where you WILL pick SLAs and even ABUSE them.

2% critical chance and a few sp (Mental Toughness and Improved) are so much useless when leveling that I've no idea why you even suggested that.

[thesnoman]

Poor advice. <SNIP>


You did notice that Max/Emp are still in the list of feats, right - just in a different order tha nyou chose to take them... or did you stop at the quote and skip the rest of the post - I'm guessing the latter.

And yes - with the FvS build you WILL use Max/Emp for certain spells, even in Shiradi


2% critical chance and a few sp (Mental Toughness and Improved) are so much useless when leveling that I've no idea why you even suggested that.

1 - Not useless, especially if soloing
2 - There's not much better to take - an extra toughness? Heighten? Extend? Why - They're USELESS on a Sorc unless you're going pure with CC focus. SP is ALWAYS worth having and the Crit chance will help in end game.
3 - Load up Max/Emp on a bunch of your spells to blast through boring leveling content and you'll see how fast you burn through SP - at which time you'll wish you took my advice.
4 - I suggested it because IT WORKS...maybe not for you, but it does work. Remember that as a WF you're healing yourself with SP once you get Reconstruct - More SP is better.
5 - You need the two feats to take Epic Mental Toughness at level 24.
6 - Remember that if you run out of SP you might as well get a backpack ride to the next shrine - and go as a Soulstone - no one wants to carry around a big hulking metal and stone warforged. Again I re-iterate - more SP is better than heighten or extend.

[thesnoman]

If you don't have your Epic Destinies ground out to get to Shiradi already, you'll find that is much more painful than leveling 20 - 28.

Depending on your Tomes, you may want to take your first Stat bump in Constitution in order to qualify for Epic Toughness down the line. Otherwise, pump all your stat increases into Charisma.

Level 21
Great Charisma

Level 24
Epic Mental Toughness

Level 26
Epic Spell Power: Force

Level 27
Epic Toughness or Blinding Speed

Level 28
Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft

Not much else to choose leveling from 20-28

[Wizza]

You did notice that Max/Emp are still in the list of feats, right - just in a different order tha nyou chose to take them... or did you stop at the quote and skip the rest of the post - I'm guessing the latter.

And yes - with the FvS build you WILL use Max/Emp for certain spells, even in Shiradi

Missed em :D My bad.



1 - Not useless, especially if soloing
2 - There's not much better to take - an extra toughness? Heighten? Extend? Why - They're USELESS on a Sorc unless you're going pure with CC focus. SP is ALWAYS worth having and the Crit chance will help in end game.
3 - Load up Max/Emp on a bunch of your spells to blast through boring leveling content and you'll see how fast you burn through SP - at which time you'll wish you took my advice.
4 - I suggested it because IT WORKS...maybe not for you, but it does work. Remember that as a WF you're healing yourself with SP once you get Reconstruct - More SP is better.
5 - You need the two feats to take Epic Mental Toughness at level 24.
6 - Remember that if you run out of SP you might as well get a backpack ride to the next shrine - and go as a Soulstone - no one wants to carry around a big hulking metal and stone warforged. Again I re-iterate - more SP is better than heighten or extend.

2) Heighten is much more useful, same for Extend. 200 SP and 2% crit are nothing, specially while leveling.
3) I already do. If you can't play, not my fault. I blast through 1-20 on my sorc with Max and Emp always on, never needed a pot while leveling.
4) That's why I believe WF is a poor race but to each their own.
5) EMT is just as much useless as the two Heroic feats.
6) Btw, Extend lets you save SP for Haste, Rage, Displacement. Going with your reasonings (more sp is better), Extend is a good choice.

[psykopeta]

blablabla

do u have any lr? i mean, u NEED it unless you start at 15 with an iconic and pike the rest of the journey, feats and spells from lvling a sorc and playing a shiradi have no relation, absolutely none unless u go gimped pure or also gimped 18 sorc/2 pally omfg knockdown immunity? dunno do they have in mind after enhancement pass

go tukaw, is the shiradi build by definition, tukaw doesn't need twists, and feats are only to save sp, give sp and get higher saves, because tukaw has only 2 ways to die:

-spell w/o save, which can be easily avoided (shield for missiles, leap for slowing/clouds/whatever and otto's irresistible...well, don't get caught XD)
-damage w/o save (that's melee and ranged, so deflect arrows, high dodge via feats+items, incorporeal and displacement)

non tukaw sorcs have this ways to die, and also when rolling a 1

18 sorc/2 fvs would be 3rd in line of power behind tukaw and 18 sorc/2 pally, because u know that u have no dps when u're dead and 18 sorc/2 fvs would have really low saves compared to havin 2 pally lvls

[thesnoman]

Missed em :D My bad.



2) Heighten is much more useful, same for Extend. 200 SP and 2% crit are nothing, specially while leveling.
3) I already do. If you can't play, not my fault. I blast through 1-20 on my sorc with Max and Emp always on, never needed a pot while leveling.
4) That's why I believe WF is a poor race but to each their own.
5) EMT is just as much useless as the two Heroic feats.
6) Btw, Extend lets you save SP for Haste, Rage, Displacement. Going with your reasonings (more sp is better), Extend is a good choice.


Let's just agree to disagree on everything here. I have my reasons why I suggest it this way, and I'm sure you have yours.

OP Pay attention here - I actually play a WF Sorc...and Wizza believes it is a poor race for a Sorc. (Which is true if you're going CC - not no-save Shiradi)


@Psykopeta

Tuckaw is a good build, but it is not superior to any Shiradi build - it's just different.

@Everyone

Please understand where I'm coming from here - everyone has different ways to play and there is no right/wrong way to play or level. I've played Wizza's way (first life Sorc) which worked, but today requires you LR once you get to 20 or when you get into Shiradi destiny if you haven't unlocked it yet. And by the way - if you haven't unlocked the Shirai Destiny yet, you've got a tough run through the martial destiny circle, so get a good group together to farm XP in whatever way you can.

The path I choose requires no LR, just a re-working of enhancements when you get to 20 (Shiradi Unlocked). And once you're in Epic Content, you'll want MT, IMT, EMT for SP and the Crit chance - especially in Shiradi for critical Procs.

And if you want to go fleshie, I suggest you look at Raidon's Fire Angel build. 16/4 Sorc/FvS

[Wizza]

Let's just agree to disagree on everything here. I have my reasons why I suggest it this way, and I'm sure you have yours.

OP Pay attention here - I actually play a WF Sorc...and Wizza believes it is a poor race for a Sorc. (Which is true if you're going CC - not no-save Shiradi)

@Everyone

Please understand where I'm coming from here - everyone has different ways to play and there is no right/wrong way to play or level. I've played Wizza's way (first life Sorc) which worked, but today requires you LR once you get to 20 or when you get into Shiradi destiny if you haven't unlocked it yet. And by the way - if you haven't unlocked the Shirai Destiny yet, you've got a tough run through the martial destiny circle, so get a good group together to farm XP in whatever way you can.

The path I choose requires no LR, just a re-working of enhancements when you get to 20 (Shiradi Unlocked). And once you're in Epic Content, you'll want MT, IMT, EMT for SP and the Crit chance - especially in Shiradi for critical Procs.


The path you chose is suboptimal for leveling. If you don't want to LR or swap feats, sure go ahead with it otherwise you are better off LRing at cap.

Suggesting a suboptimal build for the majority of the gamet so you don't have to LR is just..suboptimal to me. I'd rather waste some plat on a heart of wood (or you can use the free LR and the free LR+20 if you still have them) than wasting 3 feats on EMT.

To each their own, I guess.