Are 9th level druid spells some kind of cruel joke?

[MRMechMan]

First of all, I've really, really enjoyed my druid life so far. The firepower that the SLAs give is great, and the class has a uniqueness and versatility that I have come to love. I'm not sure how it plays in level 20+ content as most of what I have used seems to cap at ~level 15, but so far, so good.

That being said, I'm extremely disappointed with 9th level druid spells. Compared to other classes 9th levels spells they are worse than lackluster-most aren't worth loading, let alone casting. Compare them to meteor swarm, mass heal, energy drain, implosion, wail, etc. Hell, even mass hold/dominate monster...they are just not even CLOSE to the same level!

"Anger of the noonday sun"
Your fire spells give -5FR and -2% fort. WOW, great. TWO percent fort? total joke. It should be 10% minimum and even 20% would be reasonable considering how bad the elemental forms are...-3CL/MCL of most of your spells is pretty serious and TWO percent fort is really just cruel.
1/10 Near useless

"Mantle of the Icy Soul"
The targets of your cold spells take a 25% penalty to movement speed, a 10% penalty to attack speed, and a -4 penalty to reflex and fortitude saves. Actually, this sounds decent. Perhaps even a reason to use water elemental form...if it didn't gimp most of your spells and SLAs...
7/10 Good!

"Summon Nature's Ally IX"
Dryad or Elder Fire Elemental. Both were extremely mediocre even in very underleveled content.
0/10 Useless

Regenerate, Mass
It heals 1d6 hit points, +1 per caster levels (max +25), every 2 seconds for 8 seconds. Every two seconds 2 ability point damage is healed, and every three seconds one drained level and 1 bleed effect are removed. When the initial effect expires, a smaller healing effect that heals 2 HP every 5 seconds for 30 seconds is applied. Solid healing effect, and definitely worth using for raids and such, particularly for high amp targets. Removes negs as well!
8/10 Very good!

Storm of Vengeance
Conjures a storm with a massive thunderclap, deafening enemies, dousing them in acid rain, and lancing them with lightning bolts. Enemies within the cloud when it is first conjured are deafened for 3 seconds per caster level. Enemies within the storm take 8d6 acid damage every two seconds. Every 4 seconds, a random enemy within the storm takes 10d10 electricity damage (a successful reflex save halves). The storm lasts 3 seconds per caster level.
So...like a mid-level sorc casting acid rain, basically? The dps doesn't scale with caster level at all. And you get it as a SLA at level 18 anyway...so not particularly useful as a spell slot. Level9 spell as an SLA? Sounds ridiculous, but not when you realize it's basically the same power as a level 3-4 sorc spell. Imagine having wail/meteor swarm/mass heal/implosion as an SLA? Sounds too good to be true, because those spells are actually AWESOME, like lvl9 spells should be.
5/10 OK

Snowslide
You attack enemies in your path, dealing an extra 3[W], and targets caught in your wake are frozen solid for 20 seconds. A successful reflex save negates the effect, and creatures caught in the ice can attempt fortitude saves to escape every 3 seconds. Creatures frozen are considered helpless, but they also gain DR/Adamantine 5. (DC 19 + WIS mod)

So if you're a caster, you most likely aren't in winter wolf form. If you're a melee druid, you probably are not wis based. Making a shapeshifting ability wisdom based is just a poor idea (ok, making any of the animal form attacks SPELLS are a stupid idea, but that is a different topic...) I really don't think 3[W] every 15 seconds is anything to write home about, even if it is AOE. Single target it probably lowers dps as it shoots you across the room :D
3/10 mediocre

It's certainly possible that I am missing something awesome about some or all of these spells. But from what I can tell, and what everyone in-game I have talked to thinks as well...these spells just are a huge letdown.

[Munkenmo]

There's a reason 17/2/1 is such an attractive choice for a DC druid :D

Mantle of icy soul and mass regenerate, all I ever load.

[humbleroller]

as a druid i find it stupid that Heal is better than Regenerate and costs about the same.

[smeggy1384]

Anger of the Noonday Sun is alright when you consider that it is lowering fire resist as your fire spells do damage. I don't see a problem with it asides from the minor fort debuff, but then i don't use it for that.

Mantle of the Icy Soul is excellent, it is tied for the #1 spot in druids 9th level list. Go for water elemental form and use Ice Flowers to debuff monsters fort and reflex save, drop an earthquake or cast finger of death.. or just run if things are going badly, it slows monsters down. Hey maybe you can outkite the Arcane Archer with this!

Mass Regenerate is the only healing spell my druid ever needs, with minimum heal amp i get over 400 total from this, and if any player happens to be nearby they get it too. Plus negative level curing, which druids needed badly.

Storm of Vengeance.. sure it can come as a SLA, but having two of these is nice when you need to do a bit of acid damage. Place an earthquake and storm and things become pretty dead.

Snowslide is also very nice, assuming the druid has high wisdom (which why wouldn't they? All animal form attacks need wisdom). Great for freezing lots of monsters or even sending you through a pack at a doorway to get to the casters at the back. Don't forget to use Howl of Terror with this, they make a great combo.

Summon 9: The dryad I've not found a use for, but assuming you have good dps there is a use for the fire elemental. Get to the end of Enter the Kobold, summon the big fire elemental and toss it a stone skin. Either have someone turn you invisible or sneak in and let big red catch the enemies attention before you and the group pounce on the bosses. The fire elemental just happens to be immune to the fire damage in that room.. it will die, but is a decent distraction while you kill the bosses.

[Lonnbeimnech]

mantle is awesome when used with ice storm and earthquake.

storm of vengeance is some nice dps, though the cooldown is anoyingly long

snowslide, i use it in place of leap of faith/abundant step for accessing certain shortcuts, such as trial by fury and reclaiming the rift, you can skip everything and just do the end fight if you jump in the right places.

mass regen, if you are healbotting or back up healing, its the best spell you get for group healing.

[jalont]

First of all, I've really, really enjoyed my druid life so far. The firepower that the SLAs give is great, and the class has a uniqueness and versatility that I have come to love. I'm not sure how it plays in level 20+ content as most of what I have used seems to cap at ~level 15, but so far, so good.

That being said, I'm extremely disappointed with 9th level druid spells. Compared to other classes 9th levels spells they are worse than lackluster-most aren't worth loading, let alone casting. Compare them to meteor swarm, mass heal, energy drain, implosion, wail, etc. Hell, even mass hold/dominate monster...they are just not even CLOSE to the same level!

"Anger of the noonday sun"
Your fire spells give -5FR and -2% fort. WOW, great. TWO percent fort? total joke. It should be 10% minimum and even 20% would be reasonable considering how bad the elemental forms are...-3CL/MCL of most of your spells is pretty serious and TWO percent fort is really just cruel.
1/10 Near useless

"Mantle of the Icy Soul"
The targets of your cold spells take a 25% penalty to movement speed, a 10% penalty to attack speed, and a -4 penalty to reflex and fortitude saves. Actually, this sounds decent. Perhaps even a reason to use water elemental form...if it didn't gimp most of your spells and SLAs...
7/10 Good!

"Summon Nature's Ally IX"
Dryad or Elder Fire Elemental. Both were extremely mediocre even in very underleveled content.
0/10 Useless

Regenerate, Mass
It heals 1d6 hit points, +1 per caster levels (max +25), every 2 seconds for 8 seconds. Every two seconds 2 ability point damage is healed, and every three seconds one drained level and 1 bleed effect are removed. When the initial effect expires, a smaller healing effect that heals 2 HP every 5 seconds for 30 seconds is applied. Solid healing effect, and definitely worth using for raids and such, particularly for high amp targets. Removes negs as well!
8/10 Very good!

Storm of Vengeance
Conjures a storm with a massive thunderclap, deafening enemies, dousing them in acid rain, and lancing them with lightning bolts. Enemies within the cloud when it is first conjured are deafened for 3 seconds per caster level. Enemies within the storm take 8d6 acid damage every two seconds. Every 4 seconds, a random enemy within the storm takes 10d10 electricity damage (a successful reflex save halves). The storm lasts 3 seconds per caster level.
So...like a mid-level sorc casting acid rain, basically? The dps doesn't scale with caster level at all. And you get it as a SLA at level 18 anyway...so not particularly useful as a spell slot. Level9 spell as an SLA? Sounds ridiculous, but not when you realize it's basically the same power as a level 3-4 sorc spell. Imagine having wail/meteor swarm/mass heal/implosion as an SLA? Sounds too good to be true, because those spells are actually AWESOME, like lvl9 spells should be.
5/10 OK

Snowslide
You attack enemies in your path, dealing an extra 3[W], and targets caught in your wake are frozen solid for 20 seconds. A successful reflex save negates the effect, and creatures caught in the ice can attempt fortitude saves to escape every 3 seconds. Creatures frozen are considered helpless, but they also gain DR/Adamantine 5. (DC 19 + WIS mod)

So if you're a caster, you most likely aren't in winter wolf form. If you're a melee druid, you probably are not wis based. Making a shapeshifting ability wisdom based is just a poor idea (ok, making any of the animal form attacks SPELLS are a stupid idea, but that is a different topic...) I really don't think 3[W] every 15 seconds is anything to write home about, even if it is AOE. Single target it probably lowers dps as it shoots you across the room :D
3/10 mediocre

It's certainly possible that I am missing something awesome about some or all of these spells. But from what I can tell, and what everyone in-game I have talked to thinks as well...these spells just are a huge letdown.

Glad to see you're back.

Anger of the Noonday Sun - Definitely seems weak. Have never used it because I view fire elemental as the "melee" choice. That's just not me.

Mantle - All casters should be in water elemental form, and mantle is a very nice bonus. I definitely think it's worth of level 9 status.

Summon - Pointless like all summons I suppose. But we knew it'd go there. I"m sure there's lots of animal form druids that like their summons. Probably helpful. Less helpful for casters, as they drag aggro away from the neat little piles you build up to kill mobs efficiently.

Regen, Mass - Best "healing" spell in game. Does fine here.

SOV - I love SOV. Especially in Shiradi. Most bang for your buck, proc-wise. I've only played druids endgame in Shiradi, but this is definitely a part of the rotation, and the recently granted SLA just makes it 100 times better. Don't underestimate it.

Snowslide- It's the druid's form of wings. Also, all animal form druids should be somewhat wis-based. Same way all monks should be somewhat wis-based. It's a great spell and deserving of its level 9 placement.

[susiedupfer]

They seem rather meh on the surface, I agree. And I only use 3 on a regular basis. BUT, I use those on every last quest, and most raids. Could they be better? Sure. But I am very happy with those 3. I keep SLA SoV right next to the spell on the hotbar, have both meta'd. Use one, then the other while the first is on timer. I never, ever use that annoying dryad.

As stated previously, Mantle of the Icy Soul is awesome when followed by any ice spell and an Earthquake. I have a guildie that likes to DoT, I prefer Ice Storm(2 kinds of damage), but whatever, it works. And it is awesome.

[Czekojin]

I played a pure druid caster based and I cannot complain, it was fun even with lv 9 spells. Always ready to shape-shift to any form and slide like a rocket thru the most of the quests and even in public. Totally love it :D
Heal is ok but regenerate is really nice too, it is about habit - I was actually missing it when I TR'ed.
I think playing a druid is mostly about swapping forms and using it in a smart way.

[JasonJi72]

The limited number of 9th level Druid spells always seemed... unfinished to me.

I have tried using Anger of the Noonday Sun, but never really got it to work. When it would have worked, I forgot to cast it.

Spells that SHOULD be there:

Mass Protection from Elements - Seriously, if anyone should have this, it should be Druids.
Mass Cure Critical wounds - Captain Obvious here.
True Reincarnate - With less than a 5 minute casting time!
A powerful summon with a short duration.

For everything else, see above. :)

[AzB]

First of all, I've really, really enjoyed my druid life so far. The firepower that the SLAs give is great, and the class has a uniqueness and versatility that I have come to love. I'm not sure how it plays in level 20+ content as most of what I have used seems to cap at ~level 15, but so far, so good.

That being said, I'm extremely disappointed with 9th level druid spells. Compared to other classes 9th levels spells they are worse than lackluster-most aren't worth loading, let alone casting. Compare them to meteor swarm, mass heal, energy drain, implosion, wail, etc. Hell, even mass hold/dominate monster...they are just not even CLOSE to the same level!

"Anger of the noonday sun"
Your fire spells give -5FR and -2% fort. WOW, great. TWO percent fort? total joke. It should be 10% minimum and even 20% would be reasonable considering how bad the elemental forms are...-3CL/MCL of most of your spells is pretty serious and TWO percent fort is really just cruel.
1/10 Near useless

Spot on. It's reasonably useful in fire elemental form, but certainly not 9th level spell material.



"Mantle of the Icy Soul"
The targets of your cold spells take a 25% penalty to movement speed, a 10% penalty to attack speed, and a -4 penalty to reflex and fortitude saves. Actually, this sounds decent. Perhaps even a reason to use water elemental form...if it didn't gimp most of your spells and SLAs...
7/10 Good!

This is very useful in water elemental form, and for specific situations.


"Summon Nature's Ally IX"
Dryad or Elder Fire Elemental. Both were extremely mediocre even in very underleveled content.
0/10 Useless

Actually, the dryad has two very worthwhile abilities. First off, she casts random buffs and even heals on your party, pets, and summons. Secondly, as a distraction she's awesome because she's so very hard to kill. Likewise fire elemental in specific situations where fire immunity helps, and/or the monsters have a weakness to fire damage.


Regenerate, Mass
It heals 1d6 hit points, +1 per caster levels (max +25), every 2 seconds for 8 seconds. Every two seconds 2 ability point damage is healed, and every three seconds one drained level and 1 bleed effect are removed. When the initial effect expires, a smaller healing effect that heals 2 HP every 5 seconds for 30 seconds is applied. Solid healing effect, and definitely worth using for raids and such, particularly for high amp targets. Removes negs as well!
8/10 Very good!

Agreed.


Storm of Vengeance
Conjures a storm with a massive thunderclap, deafening enemies, dousing them in acid rain, and lancing them with lightning bolts. Enemies within the cloud when it is first conjured are deafened for 3 seconds per caster level. Enemies within the storm take 8d6 acid damage every two seconds. Every 4 seconds, a random enemy within the storm takes 10d10 electricity damage (a successful reflex save halves). The storm lasts 3 seconds per caster level.
So...like a mid-level sorc casting acid rain, basically? The dps doesn't scale with caster level at all. And you get it as a SLA at level 18 anyway...so not particularly useful as a spell slot. Level9 spell as an SLA? Sounds ridiculous, but not when you realize it's basically the same power as a level 3-4 sorc spell. Imagine having wail/meteor swarm/mass heal/implosion as an SLA? Sounds too good to be true, because those spells are actually AWESOME, like lvl9 spells should be.
5/10 OK

It's not like acid rain, it's like acid rain with lightning. The advantage to having both the sla and spell would be the cool down time. I haven't gotten my caster druid to 18 yet, (level 17 is soooo slow to advance) but if they're on seperate timers, that's a good reason to have both. The cooldown is extremely long.


Snowslide
You attack enemies in your path, dealing an extra 3[W], and targets caught in your wake are frozen solid for 20 seconds. A successful reflex save negates the effect, and creatures caught in the ice can attempt fortitude saves to escape every 3 seconds. Creatures frozen are considered helpless, but they also gain DR/Adamantine 5. (DC 19 + WIS mod)

So if you're a caster, you most likely aren't in winter wolf form. If you're a melee druid, you probably are not wis based. Making a shapeshifting ability wisdom based is just a poor idea (ok, making any of the animal form attacks SPELLS are a stupid idea, but that is a different topic...) I really don't think 3[W] every 15 seconds is anything to write home about, even if it is AOE. Single target it probably lowers dps as it shoots you across the room :D
3/10 mediocre


Agreed. It's an awesome spell, but most any druid that's going to be in wolf form most of the time is going to have monk/fighter/ranger levels and will probably never see this spell. As a pure caster druid, I only use it to reach the second tome in Dust, and only then if my boots of propulsion are on cooldown.

And I agree on the wolf attacks being spells. One of the biggest problems I have with that is beholders and other anti magic situations. I lose all my dps right when I need it the most. Inherent wolf abilities should be inherent. I can see jaws of winter being a magical attack, but the trip/knockdown attack should be inherent.

And in a similar vein, the "4 legs good" enhancement needs to be an inherent ability. It's ridiculous that a druid wolf with 28 strength can't trip your basic wolf in most any Eveningstar quest, but the mundane wolves there can knock you down continuously while you are in wolf form. If you are in wolf form, you are considered a wolf for all intents and purposes. If knockdown immunity needs to be an enhancement, then go ahead, but make it permanent/passive, and don't make it require a feat. (Or maybe make it two tiered with some knockdown resistance without Dodge, and immunity with Dodge) And it should not interfere with fatal harrier. That makes no sense at all.

[smeggy1384]

Actually, the dryad has two very worthwhile abilities. First off, she casts random buffs and even heals on your party, pets, and summons. Secondly, as a distraction she's awesome because she's so very hard to kill. Likewise fire elemental in specific situations where fire immunity helps, and/or the monsters have a weakness to fire damage.

It's not like acid rain, it's like acid rain with lightning. The advantage to having both the sla and spell would be the cool down time. I haven't gotten my caster druid to 18 yet, (level 17 is soooo slow to advance) but if they're on seperate timers, that's a good reason to have both. The cooldown is extremely long.

Never saw my dryad from summon level 9 cast anything, she just runs over and whacks at stuff. The Dryad Elder from Primal Avatar is a very nice summon, both healing and buffing.

As for storm of vengeance its duration increases with level, it starts off roughly 30 seconds (i believe the SLA actually does not get increased duration), my current morninglord clr1/druid 19/epic 1 /primal avatar 2 gets a bit over a minute out of a storm of vengeance, which had a cooldown of 1 minute last i checked. Not much lives through a full storm whether i am using fire or water form and spells, and its not worth dragging monsters back to a storm especially when i have the SLA version i can drop around the corner.