New enhancement system did the impossible

[coolpenguin410]

<Disclaimer: This is only my opinion. I am not bashing any classes, races or play styles.>

Thank you to Turbine for this latest enhancement pass. All of my characters got at least a small power boost and are more fun to play. However, the most exciting thing of all was something that I thought would be impossible. Turbine made my barbarian fun to play. I actually look forward to leveling him up and playing him regularly.

A little back story: I originally designed him when dwarf barbs only trailed warforged barbs by about 4 points of damage with two handers (due to wf power attack enhancements). Frenzied Beserker was the only PrE available and I didn't care for it that much (though built for it nonetheless). Eventually, Half-Orcs came in and left dwarves in the dust. The character sat unused for a long time until I was able to use an experience stone to bring him up to level 16. Even then, I wasn't really interested.

Then everything changed. Occult Slayer was an option and I could become the anti-mage! Even better, with dwarf axe enhancements and Throw Your Weight around, I could LR into a pure con build! Then we have the capstone synergy. Max con? Check. A use for the Dragonmark of Warding? Spell Resistance thrice per day, check. SR of over 80 at cap? Here I come! My only regret is that I can't work in a high reflex save and evasion.

Finally, a barbarian worth playing. Thank you Turbine! Beware monsters of Eberron, you're about to be eaten by a Gruue.

[Failedlegend]

Here here!!!


I love the new Barb prestiges, I've been waiting for Occult slayer for a really long time and it did not disappoint.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

Overall, all my characters got a boost. Some more than others, but overall I really like the pass so far.

[droid327]

yeah I don't understand everyone whos been calling it a nerf. Sure, some certain builds may be slightly less powerful, if you leave them completely unaltered. But every build before, with maybe just a little tweaking to evolve to the new system, has a ceiling higher than it used to.

And I like that it spreads advancement more evenly through Heroic. You don't just grind straight through to L6 for your first PrE, before you "get anything" anymore. Every time you earn a pip and another AP, you can improve your character.

Now, the complaints about the loot changes are valid. And the concerns about power creep are especially valid. But complaints about losing efficacy are really indefensible.

[RyonsAlt]

I feel like like most of my characters got a boost, the ones who don't feel like they did I have to reevaluate the way I'm spending enhancements and their build.

[Failedlegend]

yeah I don't understand everyone whos been calling it a nerf.

Probably because there's PLENTY of nerfs.

A few examples:

- Rise of The Phoenix - Shintao Tree

Old: 50 ki/hp can use at-will

New: 100ki only affects Monk if he/she dies CANNOT target allies and doesn't work if you dont have 100 ki when you die.

The thing is Monks are incredibly survivable and assuming equal skill if things go south if someone lives the Monk is quite likely to be that one so if he/she drops a meditate or two they can walk around rezzing the group Pre-U19, Post-U19 they have to Bank 100ki just in case they die. Its a HUGE downgrade and their still forced to pick up the useless curatives line. Not worth it anymore


- Slayer Arrows - Arcane Archer Tree

Old: 500 DMG, Stance

New: 250 DMG, Active ability

Yeah this ones really easy 250 is less than 500..done.

There's ALOT of nerfs some of which basically kill prestiges lines...theres also alot of new cool things that I'm having fun playing with but why did you nerf things that didnt need nerfing.

Oh and FYI I'm refusing to take heal, spellcraft or repair on any of my characters because I disagree with that change so I'm not going to use it.

[RyonsAlt]

- Slayer Arrows - Arcane Archer Tree

Old: 500 DMG, Stance

New: 250 DMG, Active ability

Yeah this ones really easy 250 is less than 500..done.


See, now this is irritating, because people aren't able to learn how to use their new abilities.
Runebow and soul magic give you temporary spell points so you can use this without it costing you a dime, the new slayer is now effected by CRIT MULTIPLIERS and is added into your first number. You can use it at will as opposed to praying for that 5% chance of getting it to go off from 20s. Not to mention you have doubleshot bonuses now so that it may trigger twice without having to worry about many shot. The only reason you think this is a nerf is because you don't know how to utilize it.

[dlsidhe]

Slayer Arrows - Arcane Archer Tree

Old: 500 DMG, Stance

New: 250 DMG, Active ability

Yeah this ones really easy 250 is less than 500..done.

There's ALOT of nerfs some of which basically kill prestiges lines...theres also alot of new cool things that I'm having fun playing with but why did you nerf things that didnt need nerfing.

Oh and FYI I'm refusing to take heal, spellcraft or repair on any of my characters because I disagree with that change so I'm not going to use it.

Old was a 5% chance at a flat 500 damage - no critical multipliers.

New slaying arrows are a guaranteed 250 damage, which with multishot becomes a guaranteed 1000 damage, and is affected by critical multipliers...so, using the Bow of Sinew, it's theoretically possible (and, by experience, actually possible) to get over 4000 damage on a single shot (4 arrows, all landing on 19-20 rolls, getting 250x4 damage = 4K damage + elemental/force effects - the one time it procc'd just so, I ended up dying because I was too flabbergasted to remember to play ;)). The reason I prefer the new ones is that it's at-will - I can open off against a boss with a multishot volley of slayer arrows. And new slayer arrows + fury = not even right.

[Lycurgus]

yeah I don't understand everyone whos been calling it a nerf. Sure, some certain builds may be slightly less powerful, if you leave them completely unaltered. But every build before, with maybe just a little tweaking to evolve to the new system, has a ceiling higher than it used to.

Archmage was pretty handily screwed as an option for dc-casting. Unless, of course, you adopt the playstyle and attributes of a pale master.

[jskinner937]

Probably because there's PLENTY of nerfs.

A few examples:

- Rise of The Phoenix - Shintao Tree

Old: 50 ki/hp can use at-will

New: 100ki only affects Monk if he/she dies CANNOT target allies and doesn't work if you dont have 100 ki when you die.

The thing is Monks are incredibly survivable and assuming equal skill if things go south if someone lives the Monk is quite likely to be that one so if he/she drops a meditate or two they can walk around rezzing the group Pre-U19, Post-U19 they have to Bank 100ki just in case they die. Its a HUGE downgrade and their still forced to pick up the useless curatives line. Not worth it anymore

- Slayer Arrows - Arcane Archer Tree

Old: 500 DMG, Stance

New: 250 DMG, Active ability

Yeah this ones really easy 250 is less than 500..done.

There's ALOT of nerfs some of which basically kill prestiges lines...theres also alot of new cool things that I'm having fun playing with but why did you nerf things that didnt need nerfing.

Oh and FYI I'm refusing to take heal, spellcraft or repair on any of my characters because I disagree with that change so I'm not going to use it.

You cannot site the negatives of a tree without all the positives that come with it. Shintao received a huge buff IMO overall with the pass considering you can get all the goodies from ninja spy (including shadow veil) and henshin, and a ton more PRR if you are earth stance build.

AA tree is costly, but if you budget it right (and ignore the elemental side of the tree) you can use arrows of slaying and some other clickies and paralyzing stance which is a very nice buff IMO. Plus there is a lot of goodies in the deepwood sniper tree too.

Personally I think the biggest bump of the crop is elf although. The dragonmarks and affordablility of this tree make me second thinking all my human and helf builds in favor of elf. My 10 ranger/ 6 monk / 2 fighter AA at level 18 has 513 HPs as an elf and has 8 clickies of displacement now with the 4 that are extended for free from the elf tree. This is awesomesauce IMO. I just avoided elven grace because I am still a strength build, although I might switch to DEX later.

[Hirosue]

Archmage was pretty handily screwed as an option for dc-casting. Unless, of course, you adopt the playstyle and attributes of a pale master.

yep . Archmage was pretty much screwed over.

Dont play as a result of pass

pally- screwed
wizard archmagi- screwed
bard- screwed
sorc - screwed

Rome TW 2 comes out Tuesday bye bye ddo

[jskinner937]

Bard WCs and Pally do need a boost, as far as when I tested....but

Sorc is as good or better than before, whether DI or Shirardi. With Air and Fire Savant its pretty nice on Shirardi procs, plus you get some force from the fire tree as well. If and when they fix epic spell power at 26, this will help too.

AM, well I can't really speak from personal experience, but many like the AM tree as an addition to the PM tree, but not the other way around.

In reality the game has changed...and most every major update it does. You can either refuse to adapt and whine about it, quit or adapt and try something new. For me this is the coolest thing about this pass, the opportunity to explore new possibilities and essentially play an unlimited number of new classes.

[Aurora1979]

bard- screwed


My Melee bard is much more powerful now then before.

I have played melee bards for a couple of years now and my current one, with a 2 fighter 2 rogue is much more effective since having a play with the enhancements.

There are problems with bards, as listed in the thread about them. But bugs aside, bards are not weaker than before due to the pass.