Early Motu vs Shadowfell expansion traffic: Part III whats the excuse for no players

[IronClan]

The expansion generated less traffic than Epic GH did in it's first week peaks around 20,000 compared to 15,000 so far.
http://imageshack.us/a/img5/8629/0wrj.jpg

Motu release with pre-release week included and Shadowfell release week also with pre-release week included, graphs are lined up and scaled approximately (not perfect but close enough).

http://imageshack.us/a/img853/6306/tjbl.jpg

[SiliconScout]

That's easy.

Comparitively very few bought it pre-release or post release. I know of only 1 person out of dozens who bought it and he bought the cheapest pack they had.

Wasn't really an expansion and the customer realized it. I would expect the slight up tick is more do to with re-speccing your toons than playing expansion content honestly.

It's sad but it's the most likely explanation.

[EllisDee37]

The excuse is the crappy quality of the shadowfell expansion in terms of endgame: no raids at all, no good named loot, nothing to bother with.

[IronClan]

The excuse is the crappy quality of the shadowfell expansion in terms of endgame: no raids at all, no good named loot, nothing to bother with.

While I enjoyed the stormhorns a lot I havnt even played the wehloon quests, it does not really feel like an expansion pack I agree, it feels like two updates packaged together.

It's still early and maybe this is a sign of worse to come, but if this holds true it will bode very poorly for the coming winter months.

[Teh_Troll]

The expansion generated less traffic than Epic GH did in it's first week peaks around 20,000 compared to 15,000 so far.

EE GH was a better pack than this. Shadowfell is okay . . . but no raid, confusing ENH system, extremely questionable gear changes, etc . . . EE GH was just better than this.

A week later . . . end-game is back to being dead . . . people are back to TRing.

[Vordax]

While I enjoyed the stormhorns a lot I havnt even played the wehloon quests, it does not really feel like an expansion pack I agree, it feels like two updates packaged together.

It's still early and maybe this is a sign of worse to come, but if this holds true it will bode very poorly for the coming winter months.

It definitely feels like a couple of updates not an expansion.

No raid to farm.
No loot worth mentioning in the quests.
Not even a "giant caves" style mission for quick random loot farming.

[AZgreentea]

I think it has more to do with the enhancements than the expansion. This expansion wasn't as thrilling for most people as the first forray into the forgotten Realms. Plus with this expansion DDO has a direct thematic competitor on the market.

But overall I would say most former players are waiting to see how the enhancement system shakes out.

Or

You could go to the old standby of "MMO populations are fluid and fleeting."

[Charononus]

The excuse is the crappy quality of the shadowfell expansion in terms of endgame: no raids at all, no good named loot, nothing to bother with.

Couldn't have said it better.

[oweieie]

School doesn't start until next week.

[Teh_Troll]

School doesn't start until next week.

The "all is fine" chorus of fanbois will be out in force tomorrow.

[Karavek]

Well for me, its largely been an ever increasing discontent not with the game itself but the playerbase's vocal minority on the forums that has lead me to ever less play. But turbine dropping the ball with so many bugs, a lack of any real effort to attract to or instill trust into the playerbase. And in general the fact the game is just getting dull. Not nearly enough content variation while leveling up characters I want so much content I can lvl up a dozen characters without ever repeating the same quest, and dont reallylike how the favor system forces us to do the opposite and never save content for alts to use as first time experiences. Nor do I care for the lack of dev attention to RP aspects like emotes, social hang out areas that really feel geared towards RP, and even a sever being given an official RP tag would all do wonders for my interest in and hope for the future of the game.

This game clearly wants to cater to the casual gamer, but keeps being distracted by the cries of the hard core just enough to keep the game spiraling downward rather then go straight forward toward a better tomorrow.

[goodspeed]

heh ya gall has the top population. How many cubicals are loggn those characters in. Wayfinder seems a lil off to. I can't picture 250 living souls in there.

wow look at the inactive death on those numbers between active. Theirs literally 10's of thousands just in the first 1-18 levels. lol think it's that special quest run policy?

[IronClan]

School doesn't start until next week.

That's interesting, someone should tell all the school busses I sat behind, the two school zones, the two county sheriffs at the cross walks of those zones and the teachers at the private school in the third school zone that I dropped my 1st grader off at all week long. :p

[IronClan]

heh ya gall has the top population. How many cubicals are loggn those characters in. Wayfinder seems a lil off to. I can't picture 250 living souls in there.

Ghall has been well documented in threads here as being a result of extra accidental logins when people click to join the last server played but its gone back to default (which is Ghall) for multiple reasons including logging into lam etc.

Wayfinder has seen a small increase in activity due to the 10% xp bonus.

[patang01]

I think it has more to do with the enhancements than the expansion. This expansion wasn't as thrilling for most people as the first forray into the forgotten Realms. Plus with this expansion DDO has a direct thematic competitor on the market.

But overall I would say most former players are waiting to see how the enhancement system shakes out.

Or

You could go to the old standby of "MMO populations are fluid and fleeting."

I was silly enough to buy it on faith that it would be more like MOTU in size with the same quality as EGH.

After realizing that the named loot is terrible, random loot overpowered and way to few permutations (How many deadly of whatever do you pull every day) that I just don't feel motivated. On top of that they killed so much quality named loot by adding a host of powerful random stuff. I don't see anyone bother running EGH anymore - and why should they on EE? Plus the economy is shot to pieces - nothing is worth the shards anymore with such a glut of stuff and the plat market was shot to pieces when shard auction house was released.

And since Turbine keep releasing the latest Tomes for gold it's near impossible to sell a good Tome you pull yourself. The worst part is that they added 2 packs stuck together with 1 really good wilderness (Stormhorn) and many good quests (varied, not that many rail shooters and asymmetric in nature). But what's the motivation to run them beyond favor? No end game - no raid. No special loot to aim for. Once I hit 28 with my toons I'll have a hard time finding a good reason to do much else. And that's so different from MOTU that had everything from unlocking set bonuses, a raid, citw loot you can upgrade - and for that matter EGH with similar stuff.

Turbine really blew their feet off on this release. So much time wasted on making good quests with a great wilderness but no upgrade system and no reason to continue repeating the quests. And I'll think twice before I'm dumb enough to pre-order the next xpack.

P.S.
The new change to hidden and secret doors is dumb. It's such an irrelevant thing and they managed to bug stuff in the process. And worse of all - they're going to release future content that hinge on these changes. Which sucks if you play a toon that can't search worth spit. And since the stupid rogue hirelings cap at 24 it has a terrible time unlocking stuff on EH and it probably can't find or undo jack on EE - provided you felt desperate enough to use one for some reason.

[Wizza]

The excuse is the crappy quality of the shadowfell expansion in terms of endgame: no raids at all, no good named loot, nothing to bother with.

Easy one.

[Dandonk]

I did the Wheloon series, and two of the Storm horns things so far. Pretty good quests, and cap raise with new feats looks cool. New iconics, yay.

But then.... there's no raid, namedloot is awful, lack of sense of progress actually getting to the new cap, iconics are still a dead end, and the enhancement pass that feels less than polished (it has great ideas, but it needs a lot of finetuning still IMO)...
Silly changes to mechanics that worked fine (secret doors), and lots of awful new bugs...

It definitely feels more like a couple of updates strung together and named an expansion. There's no new endgame, really. And the iconics are still not TR-able, so can't even use the time to try out the new "races" with my existing characters (no, I'm not making a new iconic. I already did a bladeforged, and I'm not repeating that mistake).

Random loot suddenly all looks the same, and no way to search AH for the tier you want. It's silly OP in places, and came along with a nerf of named items, crafted items and old rand gen.

I bought the collector's edition, and yes it was stupid, but I actually thought it'd be more like eGH and less like 3BC.

[Qaliya]

The worst part is that everyone has been telling them all of this since the day the "expansion" was announced, and from what I can tell, it was entirely ignored.

[Arnez]

The worst part is that everyone has been telling them all of this since the day the "expansion" was announced, and from what I can tell, it was entirely ignored.


No- the worst part is the sheer number of people who blindly bought not only the Collectors edition, but purchased the Legendary upgrade with it. Some bean-counter is looking at what the "expansion" brought in, and they are at a meeting right now saying "SEE?!? We can make a profit by re-labelling 2 adventure packs into 1 expansion- add kittens, they'll buy it up."

[Dandonk]

No- the worst part is the sheer number of people who blindly bought not only the Collectors edition, but purchased the Legendary upgrade with it. Some bean-counter is looking at what the "expansion" brought in, and they are at a meeting right now saying "SEE?!? We can make a profit by re-labelling 2 adventure packs into 1 expansion- add kittens, they'll buy it up."

Yes, I agree. I'm one of the sinners, and on behalf of us all, I profoundly apologize to everyone else. I am sorry if this leads to more of the same in the future.

[eris2323]

And since Turbine keep releasing the latest Tomes for gold it's near impossible to sell a good Tome you pull yourself.

Well maybe if people didn't keep trying to sell their tomes for 2 million plat for a +3, or 400+ shards for a +4, they might actually sell more often.

I can't blame this one on turbine. I've been watching tome prices on my server for a while and they're always crazy expensive.

If you want them to sell, price them lower.

Or people will be forced to use the DDO store, and it is actually YOUR fault ;)

[Qhualor]

probably would have bought Shadowfell if I could have logged on to Lama so I could have checked out the new enhancements. I didn't like the restriction of having to buy to preview enhancements and other game changing things in the game that had nothing to do with the expansion. than character copy was not working when I could get on there as a VIP and when it was open beta.

the people I have talked to about the expansion said some of the loot wasn't that great and they beat the quests the first day on the highest difficulty. most said it was pretty challenging, but I know after a couple weeks people figure out how to beat it and than it becomes standard completion like other quests are.

[Qhualor]

Well maybe if people didn't keep trying to sell their tomes for 2 million plat for a +3, or 400+ shards for a +4, they might actually sell more often.

I can't blame this one on turbine. I've been watching tome prices on my server for a while and they're always crazy expensive.

If you want them to sell, price them lower.

Or people will be forced to use the DDO store, and it is actually YOUR fault ;)

^this

but it is easier to sell tomes for plat. its an easy disposable income for some of us who have plat burning a hole through our belt bags. I look at the P2WAH all the time and cant believe the prices are so high.

[FranOhmsford]

I bought the collector's edition, and yes it was stupid, but I actually thought it'd be more like eGH and less like 3BC.

Wheloon seems to be an amalgamation of everything bad in Necropolis!

Insanely Irritating Mobs - Check!
Long Periods of Nothing followed by Red Alert THEN back to Nothing again till the next Red Alert! - Check!
Inferno of the Damned - Check!
Multiple Mazes - Check!
Trapper a Necessity - Check!
Every End Boss the Same - Check!

And then we get Bad from Elsewhere added in:

Annoying Epilepsy causing Graphics - Check!
Explorers with Requirements before you can find them - Check!


And my New Pet Peeve:

Lizard Folk being Troglodytes in all but name!

Look - Tangleroot would have been perfect for Lizard Folk - We got Trogs instead.
Wheloon's Sewers are Perfect for Trogs - Now we get Lizard Folk and you shoe-horn them in there!



And worst of all - There is NO WAY I'm gonna bother Slaying in Wheloon - I have always been a defender of Explorer Zones BUT NOT ANY MORE!
Wheloon is So bad it Hurts!
It's instantly made it to #1 on my list of Worst Explorers in the Game!



If Wheloon was anything like 3 Barrel I'd be ecstatic!
It's NOT though!

[Teh_Troll]

I think the biggest thing is once you've run all the quests on elite there's nothing left to do. It's just too small, calling it an "expansion" is a joke.

[Arnez]

Yes, I agree. I'm one of the sinners, and on behalf of us all, I profoundly apologize to everyone else. I am sorry if this leads to more of the same in the future.

For us addicts, it was a hard sell. As (one of the seemingly few) who thoroughly enjoyed MoTU enough to buy it for 4 accounts- I too stood on the edge at 12:00am of the last day trying to arguing with myself to not buy it. Then- I reminded myself of the 75% off sale on MoTU that happened 3 months after release and held out.
Well- that and absence of a Raid. I asked myself- "Self, would you spend 50$ on Three Barrel Cove & Sorrowdusk Isle if they bundled it with a flying kitten?"

[Dandonk]

For us addicts, it was a hard sell. As (one of the seemingly few) who thoroughly enjoyed MoTU enough to buy it for 4 accounts- I too stood on the edge at 12:00am of the last day trying to arguing with myself to not buy it. Then- I reminded myself of the 75% off sale on MoTU that happened 3 months after release and held out.
Well- that and absence of a Raid. I asked myself- "Self, would you spend 50$ on Three Barrel Cove & Sorrowdusk Isle if they bundled it with a flying kitten?"

But... kittens! :p

I bought it because I'm an addict. I'd still like to apologize to everyone for encouraging them to do this kind of "expansion" again.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

I'm not gonna say I told you so.

Wait, yes I am. I told you so.

I absolutely did. To everyone who preordered the thing before the content was even announced. I mentioned it on the forums. I warned guildies to wait until they at least gave us details. And I knew there would still be plenty of folks who'd shell out for it ASAP and then cry foul when it came along, because this community is nothing if not predictable [within 2 pages Chai will shoehorn in a p2w argument]. I bet someone at Turbine's figured that one out by now.

And hey, if you enjoy it, by all means continue to enjoy it. I hear there are Griffons.

[djl]

The fact that there are maybe two or three named items worth getting out of the whole pack (EE goggles and EE gloves, and perhaps the Nether Orb), coupled with a reduced amount of randomgen effects, means that loot is very bland now.

Loot is the driving force in this game, and the reason people do anything. Why do people still run Shroud, even though it's one of the oldest raids and offers no semblance of challenge to LV28 toons even on Elite? Because it still has relevant loot. The loot in this new pack is, frankly, not very good. Sure, there are a couple exceptions but the majority of it just doesn't quicken your pulse like some of the things in High Road or eGH. And then you have head-scratchers like why the EE Giant's Fist has a mere +4 enhancement bonus. WHAT IS UP WITH THAT?! It would be a really nice weapon, if it had a +8 or +10 enhancement bonus, as a ML28 EE item SHOULD.

So, after playing the quests a couple times and realizing the loot is not all that thrilling, people went back to whatever they were doing prior to the expansion. Some quit again, some went back to TRing.

[Memnir]

Too little bang for too much buck.


I am beyond glad I haven't dropped money on this expansion, and never plan to. Shadowfell is Shadowfail.

[Maldorin]

That I spent the money for the pre-purchase and the legendary upgrade. Overall I have been really disappointed. Whilst MotUD was bug ridden (many of those bugs remain), that aside I still enjoyed the expansion...liked the quests and the loot changes.

This? No. None of it really. So much fail. And then deciding it is time to take a break from the game as I have done before from time to time when frustrated or bored, (granted MotUD kept me playing for several months) I canceled my VIP account today. Received an email:

"Hello DDODefault FTUIPack Account Creation,

You are receiving this email to confirm your subscription cancellation"

Nice personal touch there. Even their auto emails are bugged.

[bartharok]

If you bought, youre stuck with it. So why complain?

If you didnt, why complain?

Oh... right... DDO forums, silly me.

[Gempoult]

^this

but it is easier to sell tomes for plat. its an easy disposable income for some of us who have plat burning a hole through our belt bags. I look at the P2WAH all the time and cant believe the prices are so high.

Yeah, if you can buy +4 upgrade for several hundred TP in store and exactly same tome for 500 astral shards (cheapest, some people are asking 1000s), which is what - 10 times more TP, which one would you buy? This one is definitely not on turbine to blame :) not really related but on my server an item appeared on ASAH with buyout of 25,550 astral shards, yes, not joking somebody thought an item from this game is worth $1500.

[Vordax]

If you bought, youre stuck with it. So why complain?

If you didnt, why complain?

Oh... right... DDO forums, silly me.

I bought it when it first came out, I figured it would be at least on par with MOTU, instead its about 1/3 of what MOTU was. With horrible named loot and a badly re-done loot system. I regret spending the money. Next time (if there is a next time) I will be doing what Memnir is doing waiting for the 75% off sale. I suspect they won't be able to get away with another expansion because of this bait and switch.

[bartharok]

I bought it when it first came out, I figured it would be at least on par with MOTU, instead its about 1/3 of what MOTU was. With horrible named loot and a badly re-done loot system. I regret spending the money. Next time (if there is a next time) I will be doing what Memnir is doing waiting for the 75% off sale. I suspect they won't be able to get away with another expansion because of this bait and switch.

Oh, you DO know that only the ones who dislike it spend their days on the forums telling how bad it is. The rest just play.

[Vordax]

Oh, you DO know that only the ones who dislike it spend their days on the forums telling how bad it is. The rest just play.

And you spend your time on the forums trolling those who criticize the update instead of playing it yourself.

[bartharok]

And you spend your time on the forums trolling those who criticize the update instead of playing it yourself.

Cant play at work, but i can troll.

[Postumus]

Too little bang for too much buck.


I am beyond glad I haven't dropped money on this expansion, and never plan to. Shadowfell is Shadowfail.

Thirty bucks is too much buck? Lol. That isn't even as much as a decent pizza and drinks.

Love how all these angsty 'quitters' who have NOT purchased Shadowfell know all about how bad it is.

Honestly, this post is funnier than any goofy gif you've ever put up.

[Vordax]

Thirty bucks is too much buck? Lol. That isn't even as much as a decent pizza and drinks.

Love how all these angsty 'quitters' who have NOT purchased Shadowfell know all about how bad it is.

Honestly, this post is funnier than any goofy gif you've ever put up.

$30 bucks isn't that much, I bought the legendary upgrade too, but for me its not really about the money. Its what the money purchased. I was expecting a MOTU like pack. Instead we got 10 quests, no raids, 3 levels with no real increase in power (the destiny feats are pretty lame) and craptastic named loot and a very lacking new random loot system.

I was hoping for something that would pull me back (and my guildies) in and want to play. Loot is a driving factor for many people to play an MMO and it is severely lacking in this update (I mean expansion).

Do you think this Expansion compares favorably to MOTU?

[Flavilandile]

Well it's Sunday morning.
Time to vent some frustration.

Bought the minimum version to get all the shinies.

The Legendary Upgrade had no appeal, the Owlbear is more or less useless as the Kitty has more survivability and punch.

Now honestly, the content is barely at level with a standard update in quantity... As for quality....

Wheloon is a real pain. Between that purple nuisance that makes you see nothing and blinds you when it comes and go,
the stupidity of a mazelike explorer area, the just plain annoyance of respawning mob ( why did you move to that for all the new areas... areas that you can empty of all the mob are way way way better IMHO ? ), the ******** idea that requiring a rare to get an explorer is bright and the inability to reach quests without requiring a teleporter in such a small area makes it go at the top of the list of the Do Not Want To Go There areas ( above Demonweb and Restless Isle ).

Stormhorn is nice ( beside the fact that I'd like to be able to empty it but can't due to the stupid respawns ).

Now the ******** Streak is still there as a grouping killer, so a lot of people are just waiting until they have friends they know can cope with EE difficulty zergs to group with and do not try to group with others... It's even worse in the new quests where the difference in level and gear becomes obvious between those that have and those that have not. Plese, please, kill that Streak fast, it's killing the game.

Then there's a few other stuff that irks players away from the game :

- Fubared Guest passes ( ok, now they are fixed ) drove players away at least for a bit, as those players couldn't enter areas they didn't own.
- Fubared 20th reward Lists drove players away ( sometime permanently ) as it's the only thing we have left to do at end game.
- Fubared Raid Counters is a killer, and it's going to drive people away if it's not fixed the right way and fast.
( and nobody believe the 'No Epic record before MoTU' stupidity you told Tolero to say to us because we have proofs it's incorrect. )
- Semi-fubared Enhancement Crash that makes us spend hours to rebuild our characters.
( this drove away people, they couldn't be arsed to spend an hour on each and every of their characters to fix them under the new system while avoiding all the broken things. )

[01000010]

Oh, you DO know that only the ones who dislike it spend their days on the forums telling how bad it is. The rest just play.

Man are you misinformed, most dont get on the forums to complain, they just get frustrated and play another game...

This "update" was the last straw for quite a few.

Jus ask turbine, im sure they realise it, lol.

[djl]

$30 bucks isn't that much, I bought the legendary upgrade too, but for me its not really about the money. Its what the money purchased. I was expecting a MOTU like pack. Instead we got 10 quests, no raids, 3 levels with no real increase in power (the destiny feats are pretty lame) and craptastic named loot and a very lacking new random loot system.

I was hoping for something that would pull me back (and my guildies) in and want to play. Loot is a driving factor for many people to play an MMO and it is severely lacking in this update (I mean expansion).

Do you think this Expansion compares favorably to MOTU?

I actually like the quests themselves better in Shadowfell. They're aesthetically stunning, and feature some unique fights.

And Caught in the Web is widely reviled as the most monotonous, tedious raid in the game. People only slog through it because it has exceptional loot.

That said, the loot is undoubtedly inferior to MOTU. A large part of that comes from the new loot system, in which the devs removed a large amount of prefixes/suffixes, so there is far less variation in loot. And the named items are almost all garbage-- +4 enhancement bonuses? I mean, what the heck? On ML28 EE items, they ought to be at least +8, but preferably +10.

[Atremus]

I sort of enjoy the expansion. I think that the quests are good (minus the Pink on White effect in What Goes Up.) I enjoy the added power of the ED feats and Ruin is pretty fun. What I dislike is the overall reduction in power of named gear. That was a kick in the shin after putting in the time to "gear" up characters. But adapt or die right?

Right now, I think the end game is just too narrow. There needs to be a lot more quests to run at Level 26-28 [soon 30] so that people can play what they like. The lack of variety in what to do is more frustrating than anything else in my opinion.

I am holding out on a final decision until we see the next Raid this winter. I hope that update has a nice variety of quests for us to run to give players some more options.

[soloist12]

A few things why I stopped playing a week ago:

- Loot reason 1: They need to hire a few people to redo loot, badly. Rng loot is not a good end game, never was and never will be. I much prefer the very specific farming aspect of a certain monster dropping a certain item, dating back to everquest - just has a much better feel to it - don't change what already works, you can see this from the negative feedback in beta when the named garbage started popping up.

- Loot reason 2: we don't need better effects yet. We need more effects with 1 unique effect per item. See: shadow ring with 25% blur, or djinn ring with 15/dr lawful. Citw weapons are awesome because of the unique crit ranges/multis and like 5 mods. Torq is great for the unique mod. These days in epic levels we're also after slot consolidation as well, but we're still getting 2-3 mods per named item with no slots. Whoever did eGH loot didn't do this expansion; it's all extremely, visibly, undesirably MEH.


End game reason 1: Got level 28 and stopped - nothing to do. Could TR, but completionist does nothing for my main caster.

End game reason 2: Narrow set of quests to fetch the end game rng loot. Why are you raising the level cap when you're not ready for it? How do you re-use the massive amount of epic content out there already? Update the loot. Imagine a l28 Thornlord (though if it's anything like EE trapsmith's, you guys will forget to give it even +1, thereby screwing up the intended process.)

End game reason 3: Can buy +5 tomes, slot +8 in colorless and loot +10-11. I can't imagine where my motivation to run the most recently released raid went..


You guys go to all this work to make the quests, the item names and whatnot, but your players are losing interest because you don't have compelling loot or guild grouping functions like a raid or 3. There are other minor issues, but those are the larger factors why most of my guild is taking a look at other things to do.

[Honestinjin]

I hear there are Griffons.

But the Griffons are really badass! okay but maybe not 39.99 worth of badass

[riskyraines]

The bad....
1. The creature companions were awful except for the pseudodragon. Owlbear and tressym? Where is the skele? where is a griffon companion? harpie?
2. The wizards brown paper bag, I mean hat was poorly done and looks awful.The pet hat is the same...they both look like something a south park character would wear.
3. The armor kit that comes with the horrendous turtle shell and cow head pauldron is just outright disgusting looking. Very poorly done.
4. The bladeforged armor kits are equally offensive. Outright ugly with no real details.
5. The shadar kai armor kit is again poorly done. Why not make a kit that looks like the hooded guy on the loading screen?
6. The lag in the new pack is outright horrendous. Poorly done for people with moderate to good PCs
7. The named loot is garbage. Very few items to fit in our gear. Poorly done
8. RETRIBUTIVE: DDO DEFINITION: A piece of loot, usually found in chest loot or end quest rewards, that will definitely be sold or deconstructed. AKA outright garbage and a 00 waste of code.
9. Charging Astral shards for transports? absolutely, 100% ridiculous and an outright insult to us as gamers.
10. Chest loot reroll? again 100% ridiculous and an insult to us all. So its not enough to charge us ridiculous premiums for VIP/packs/expansions and tps? Now we have to BUY our loot too?
11. Zero tomes since UD 19. Zero SP pots. WAI so people buy em Im sure. Again 100% ridiculous and an insult to us all.
12. The shadar kai class IMO is an absolute waste of time.The chain attack is weak and its just a dumb concept for a rogue all around. No rogue wants the agro of all the mobs. Completely nerfed and needs a complete overhaul. Halflings and drow would be better rogues easily and they are F2P classes. Shadar kai should dominate for the $. It doesn't
13.Destiny feats: very weak. Overhaul these plz. poorly done. FIRST BLOOD???? lame
14. those who bought the pack didn't get end rewards for the chains at first. again weak for our $
15. The owlbear hires sit in my hireling folder right next to onyx panther. Whats the point if they cant survive EE for our $ they should be phenomenal hires. Way beyond the ones bought in estar. Tarlov out performs them all and hes available to a F2P player @ lvl 23. Again insulting to us.
16. The release of cosmetic armors....LAME !!!!!!! GET NEW LOOKS charging 15 $ for an old phoenix robe or spiderspun????? Get something fresh...ridiculous to charge those prices for throwback stuff eeven if they do look cool.
17. The cosmetic goggles ?????? the blue again are just outright hideous looking. And no special effect like the spider mask????? LAME AGAIN !!!the storm horn specs are cool but lack detail.

13.

[riskyraines]

the good with the new xpac
1. the tomes were cool.
2. the quests are cool except mirror darkly, not to fond of that one.
3. The graphics in the explorables are great.(yet lag doesn't let you really enjoy it)
4. The storm horns music is awesome.

[patang01]

I actually like the quests themselves better in Shadowfell. They're aesthetically stunning, and feature some unique fights.

And Caught in the Web is widely reviled as the most monotonous, tedious raid in the game. People only slog through it because it has exceptional loot.

That said, the loot is undoubtedly inferior to MOTU. A large part of that comes from the new loot system, in which the devs removed a large amount of prefixes/suffixes, so there is far less variation in loot. And the named items are almost all garbage-- +4 enhancement bonuses? I mean, what the heck? On ML28 EE items, they ought to be at least +8, but preferably +10.

A shield with +3 and scores worse then EGHs best? Why would you even bother making such garbage?

[Chai]

The art team gets an A. The zones always look good, and the new monsters are always cool. I particularly like the shaddows who run around making those skittering noises.

There just needed to be MOAR CONTENT. At least one raid would have been cool.

People are finally starting to see that the time it takes for players to acquire what they want and attrite again -vs- the time it takes to release new content is getting further and further apart. We were quoted a new raid early next year, and the servers are almost back down to between expansion/meaningful updates levels.