What was the Point of making Occult Slayer/Ravager when....

[FranOhmsford]

We STILL have to put 20/30 Pts into FB?


1) I'm totally against Ravager anyway - I thought DDO was Supposed to have a NO EVIL Alignments rule?

So I'm not sure how many points a Ravager would have to spend in FB?

BUT

2) The Enhanced Rage Enhancements Have been spread out between the 3 Trees - 1/2 Per Tree!
This Means that Pretty Much EVERY Barb HAS to spend Pts in ALL 3 TREES! Whether he wants to or not!

3) Occult Slayer has some nice stuff in it but doesn't seem to be complete in it's own right.


So...Why oh Why didn't you create a MASTER TREE for each Class with the Basic Essentials to Each Prestige:

Trap Bonuses for Rogues
Dog Boosts for Artis
Rage Enhancements/Toughness for Barbs
Tactics/Toughness for Fighters
SPRINT BOOST for Rangers!
etc. etc.

Look I don't want to have to take Ravager Pain Touch {The Very First Core Ability!} so I can grab Barb Power Attack / Hardy Rage!
But those are pretty much Essentials for ANY Barb! {Please Correct me if I'm wrong?}.


Why is there no way to tell if Enhancements in Different Trees Stack or Not prior to Accepting?
Case in Pt:
Barb Power Attack vs Orcish Power Attack?



When asking on these forums for Occult Slayer {and I was looking forward to playing a Barb that didn't HAVE to FRENZY!} I wasn't after just the Name!

I was asking for a VIABLE Prestige Class that didn't have to rely heavily on abilities of other Prestige Classes!



Finally - Multiclassing!!!

My H-Orc Barb on Cannith - UrikofGulg - is actually 12/6/2 Barb/Ftr/Rgr.

I didn't take a Single Enhancement from Ftr!
I think I got what was needed from Racial {except for a couple of Tier 3s}.
I grabbed AA and Conjure Arrows with my last 3 AP.

I'm NOT asking to be able to take everything possible from Every Tree - Just to have some Choice in the matter.
More than just grabbing a Tier 1 Enhancement cos it's there!


Not so much a Problem for Barbs BUT I've noticed that many of the Tier I/II Prestiges from Pre-Shadowfell are Now extremely high up in Trees!
AA Conjure Arrows is the Exception.

Forcing those of us who want to play Multiclass Characters to Forego one of those Classes Trees almost Entirely is taking things a bit far in my view.
And I'm talking about the 6 here NOT the 2!

Heck I have one character who took pretty much everything from the Tree {HotD} of a Class she only had 6 Levels {Paladin} in and had issues getting the bare essentials from her MAIN Prestige {Radiant Servant!}.

Yep I'm still trying to make that Elusive Radiant Paladin!


ANYWAY I've gone rambling off in other directions so BACK to Barbs:

1) Can anyone advise me on Enhancements for Urik {remembering that I especially don't want to Frenzy!}?

2) Can the Devs explain what the point of creating these New Prestiges was if we HAVE to go into Trees we have no interest in just to grab stuff we should have as part of our main anyway?

[adrian69]

We STILL have to put 20/30 Pts into FB?


1) I'm totally against Ravager anyway - I thought DDO was Supposed to have a NO EVIL Alignments rule?

So I'm not sure how many points a Ravager would have to spend in FB?

BUT

2) The Enhanced Rage Enhancements Have been spread out between the 3 Trees - 1/2 Per Tree!
This Means that Pretty Much EVERY Barb HAS to spend Pts in ALL 3 TREES! Whether he wants to or not!

3) Occult Slayer has some nice stuff in it but doesn't seem to be complete in it's own right.


So...Why oh Why didn't you create a MASTER TREE for each Class with the Basic Essentials to Each Prestige:

Trap Bonuses for Rogues
Dog Boosts for Artis
Rage Enhancements/Toughness for Barbs
Tactics/Toughness for Fighters
SPRINT BOOST for Rangers!
etc. etc.



I think we are all feeling this way about the Barbarian PrE. I came back a few months ago after a three year hiatus from DDO. Barb and Ranger have always been my favorite melee classes and flipped a coin to see which I'd run first on my new account. Barb won it. I quickly found it impossible to do anything with the Barbarian, not only early on, but at high levels. Here are somethings, some of which you've stated bug me.


1. You cannot pick one tree and run with it. All of the Rage enhancements are so spread out, it sucks in nice words, like Extended Rage being in one tree and Hardy Rage another, and Improved PA another. Why couldn't we have gotten a dps tree and a tank tree like Fighters? Instead of having two pseudo dps trees in Frenzied Berserker (FR is ok if you're TWF, but not great) and Occult Slayer (which I like somewhat until I have to switch weapons or until they give me the ability to smash oozes with my head, and one really sucky tank tree, that didn't turn out to be a tank tree at all with Ravager.

2. The old level 18 Enh gets bumped up to be a very crappy capstone compared to other classes' capstone. Death Frenzy is certainly better. which,

3. The last two levels of barb are now worthless, and there is no real reason to go to 20, in my opinion. 2 rogue for evasion, two ranger for bow strength and twf, or two levels of fighter for 2 feats seem to be a better deal.

4. The tier 5 enhancements are not great either. Sure, FB tier 5s are out for twf, but without a healer and a ton of pots..., OS's tier 5 really aren't that special, and are nonexistant when you must switch weapons. Ravagers are actually ok, if there where any tier 3 and 4 worth taking to get there.

On paper, the 12 barb splashes really look better honestly with only taking the needed tier 1 and 2 rage enhancements and Improved PA from the barb trees. I think a 12 barb/6 ranger/2 fighter (or rogue, but I don't like the bab loss, though evasion makes up for it. A real barb wouldn't have it anyway.) would make a better barbarian than a full barb. However, this would mean having to always keep a space for lesser resto pots, but that isn't a big deal, and losing greater rage (sort of a big deal).

[nobdog]

While I do agree that the barb enhancement trees do need some work I think you've missed the point of what enhancements are for to begin with.

A barb with no points in any tree has the core abilities a barb should have. Enhancements are designed to customize your character by tweaking certain things. If you want to rage a certain way you pick that tree. There is no requirement to take all the trees and water down your build.

If every character of a certain class has to take the "core enhancements" that directly increase their class abilities, the devs should have just made those class abilities and left them off the trees entirely. For the most part this is what they HAVE done.

The point of enhancements from their very inception was to give us choice in our builds. Having "no brainer" choices really eliminates the fun in that(which is a big part of why they did the enhancement pass). You don't have to get every enhancement that mentions the rage ability any more than every rogue has to take mechanic to be more "rogue".

I think give barbs some 5th tier abilities that are worth forgoing some of the other junk and it would be easier to see the point.

[Hobgoblin]

someone call an exorcist!

(necro bad)

[nobdog]

Oh Jeez hah I didn't even see the date on the op

[adrian69]

[QUOTE=FranOhmsford;5077662Why is there no way to tell if Enhancements in Different Trees Stack or Not prior to Accepting?
Case in Pt:
Barb Power Attack vs Orcish Power Attack?
[/QUOTE]

I can testify that it stacks, and does vicious damage, but is a waste of AP for 9 pts when 6 of those points could be better spent elsewhere.

[Gizeh]

[...]

1) I'm totally against Ravager anyway - I thought DDO was Supposed to have a NO EVIL Alignments rule?

[...]

We already have prestige trees in the game that require evil alignment in D&D 3.5, namely the assassin and pale master (the latter very obviously being DDO's version of the lich). DDO merely dropped the evil alignment requirement for those two, and apparently did the same for ravager now.

[Neomarica]

We already have prestige trees in the game that require evil alignment in D&D 3.5, namely the assassin and pale master (the latter very obviously being DDO's version of the lich). DDO merely dropped the evil alignment requirement for those two, and apparently did the same for ravager now.

Don't forget the part where you can be a Paladin of the Sovereign Host and take a quest to slaughter priests of Sovereign Host without falling - or ANY consequences, for that matter. And that's just the most blatant example. Alignments in DDO are just words on the character sheet.