U19 Shiradi Sorc - The Good, the bad, and the OMFG!!

[thesnoman]

With U19 Shiradi Sorcs are still an extremely viable choice for end game. There are some new twists and many more choices to make when building your Shiradi, and I hope to cover most of them in this thread. Some has been covered before, some may be very new to everyone.

Changes:

The biggest change is the addition of the Spellcraft Skill. This is where you get a bonus to your Universal Spell Power - it's very important that you lesser reincarnate your pre-U19 Shiradi Sorc to take this skill. MAX IT OUT!!!
Repair Spells (including Reconstruct) get boosted by the Repair SKILL. While you're LR-ing to take Spellcraft, be sure to add to your repair skill in order to get a big enough Reconstruct to fill your red bar from under 100 HP.
Obvilusly, and most importantly, the enhancement pass. You'll want to spend some time getting used to the UI and the changes that have been made. Many things have moved, and many feat pre-requisites are GONE!! (YAY)



Choices, Choices, Choices:

20 Sorc - This really isn't an option for Shiradi Sorcs post-U19. WHY? No more +20 SP (not that this was a game breaker to begin with) The Savant Trees are better now, but the capstones are garbage - what you lose in SP and spells, you gain so much more by multi-classing
18 Sorc/2 Pally - This was the best Shiradi build (and still my favorite) pre-u19. Now, it's a toss up. Pros: Ultra High saves - you should be in the 50s-60s on all of your saves. This is adequate for 99% of the content in the game now. Cost: Overall damage output is lower than other choices. Reality - this is still the best Shiradi Build for SOLOING EE content
18 Sorc /2 FvS - This is the best DPS Shiradi build out there. It leverages the Angel of Vengence tree to build your Spell Power as high as possible. Pros: DPS Cost: Loss of the high saves that the 2 pally splash gives you. Reality - this build is better for group play. While I'm sure you can solo EE content with this build, it becomes much more difficult.
18 Sorc /2 Monk - This build has been around for a long time. The 2 Monk splash gives you access to almost all of the monk tree, an additional feat, and (of course) EVASION. This is the build I have the least experience with, but with feat pre-reqs gone, I can see this becoming a very viable option for the new EE content. High reflex save +evasion + dodge = survivability. Pros: Likely nearly un-hittable when toe-to-toe Cons: Lose the high DPS and high fort and will saves.


What does this all boil down to?

Play Style - how do you play?
Do you prefer the big(ger) BOOM you get from the FvS Splash or the Survivability of the Pally/Monk splashes?
Are you more of a group player or a solo artist?
What type of play makes you smile?

There's more to come, but I think that's enough for a first post.

[thesnoman]

Shiradi Sorc 101:

The basics:


This is still an epic build - you can follow my leveling guide below for when best to take your pally levels, but most everything above the leveling guide pertains to what you want to do for epic content.
This build requires access to the Warforged Race. This build is not nearly as viable on a fleshy toon dur to the inability to heal yourself.
This build requires a significant amount of time to unlock EDs - primarily the Shiradi ED (hence the term Shiradi Sorc) if you haven't unlocked it in a previous life.
You'll want to unlock as many twists as possible because there are many situational uses for several twists.
Speaking of twists, you'll want to have a tier 4 twist available as soon as is possible.
Having a 36-point build and Wizard or Sorc Past lives helps, but is not essential
This is a GREAT build for the Bladeforged as the Bladeforged gives you a better max Charisma score - this will help in the long run and likely will be the build of choice once it is possible to TR into Bladeforged.
Air Savant is ESSENTIAL for this build (once you go full Shiradi). Why? Wind Dance (Wings for Sorcs) and Knockdown Immunity. This makes you much more survivable since you can cluster, blast/aoe, and wing away. I've seen other builds that focus on other savant, but wings and knockdown immunity makes Air Savant the tree of choice.


Now that you know the basics of Shiradi Sorcs, lets focus on the most popular pre-u19 Shiradi build 18/2 Sorc/Pally

Why pally?
Simple - Divine Grace. This feat is automatically granted at Pally level 2.
What does Divine Grace do?
A Paladin gains a bonus equal to his or her Charisma modifier (if not negative) on all saving throws (Fortitude, Reflex, and Will)

What does this mean?
It means that as a Sorc (Charisma based casting) you have a super high Charisma Modifier, which ultimately leads to saving throws in the 50s-60s (even 70s in some extreme cases) This is a great defensive bonus to have when running EE content.

So you've got a pre-U19 18/2 Sorc/Pally - what has U19 brought to the table?
Lots of Choices and Lots of chances to completely nerf your toon. BTW, a Lesser Reincarnation is REQUIRED after U19 due to Spell Power Changes.

I've highlighted the class-wide changes in my previous post, here's what you need to know specifically about the Pally Splash build:


Pally Splash indicates a defensive based build - you can build feats accordingly
Maximize/Empower are no longer needed for the Savant Trees
Since Max/Emp are no longer needed, you must decide if you WANT one or both of them for your build
SLAs are no longer required to take - this is a good thing for Shiradi Sorcs because you generally don't use them and you can spend those AP elsewhere.
You get .75 Universal Spell Power per point spent in Savant Trees - you should try to put as many points as possible into your Savant trees if you are trying to maximize Spell Power


My suggestions:

My play style with my Shiradi Sorc is that Max/Emp are used primarily for high damage spells and are fairly useless for the primary spells Shiradi Sorcs case (missile spells). Dump Max/Emp Spell - they're just mana drain
By dumping Max/Emp Spell, you now have an additional 1-2 feats you can play with, you can go with dodge/mobility, you can add mithral body, you can even add a bit of toughness if needed.
Spell Focus: Evocation is needed for the Tier 4 Magister Ability Evocation Familiarity, which is commonly twisted to reduce the cooldown of Evocation spells by 15%. If you don't use this twist, you can dump Spell Focus, freeing up another feat.
The Sorc and Wizard Past Life feats are good to take - Sorc for the Spell Points, Wiz to bypass the need for Evocation Focus
Get your dodge bonus as high as possible - this is very easy now with the addition of dodge in the enhancement trees and high dodge on items. (finding the right item can be tricky though)


My Build and Alternate Choices you can make for flavor/playstyle:

18 Sorc / 2 Pal - Lawful GOOD - Warforged

Base Stats (36 Point Build)
12 Str (Edited 8/29 - 10 Str if taking Dodge)
10 Dex (Edited 8/29 - 10 Dex if taking Dodge)
18 Con
14 Int
6 Wis
16 Cha (Max)

Put all leveling stats into Charisma and eat as many Stat Tomes as you can - minimum of +3 to all stats makes this an even better build (and they're cheap)

Feats:

(Required)
Toughness (L1)
PL: Arcane Prodigy (L3)
Mental Toughness (L6)
Improved Mental Toughness (L9)
Quicken Spell (L12)

(Flavor - Pick and Choose what you want for L15 and L18)
Dodge
Mobility
SF: Evocation
Maximize
Empower
Mithril Body (will require more points spent in WF Tree, lowering your overall Spell Power, but you get a higher armor class and it looks better than Composite plating)
Extra Toughness Feats (More HPs)

PERSONAL FLAVOR CHOICES:
Dodge @ L15 (REQUIRES 13 DEX)
SF: Evocation @ L18 (To Unlock Magister T4 Evocation Twist) THIS WILL LIKELY BECOME MOBILITY IF I FIND I DON'T USE THE TWIST MUCH, WHICH I HAVEN'T OVER THE PAST WEEK OR SO...

EPIC FEATS:
Epic Mental Toughness (L21)
Great Charisma (L24)
Epic Spell Power: Force (Level 26 - Requires two trees in the Arcane Circle be capped)
Epic Toughness (L27)
Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft (L28) <-- This May Change...

There are many other Epic choices, but I'm happy with the ones above. Epic Spellpower: Fire and Blinding Speed are good alternatives.

ENHANCEMENTS:

Race Tree: Warforged
Core Enhancements - ALL (This gives you an automatic 100% Fortification and +2 Constitution)
Tier 1:

Construct Thinking (3/3) for +3 to weak will saves
Inscribed Armor (1/3) for 0% Arcane Spell Failure with Composite Body [3/3 if you take Mithril Body]
Construct Toughness (1/1)
Construct Stability (1/3) Had a leftover point and threw it here

Tier 2:

Construct Toughness (1/1)

Tier 3:

Construct Toughness (1/1)

***Improved Mithril Body (3/3) IF you take Mithril Body***
Tier 4:

Construct Toughness (1/1)


Air Savant Tree (37 AP spent)
Core Enhancements 1-5 (No Capstone)
Tier 1:

Acrobatic (3/3)
One With The Storm (3/3)
Spell Critical: Electric (1/1)

Tier 2:

Spell Critical: Electric (1/1)
Efficient Quicken (3/3)

Tier 3:

Spell Critical: Electric (1/1)
Charisma (1/1)

Tier 4:

Spell Critical: Electric (1/1)
Charisma (1/1)
Feather Falling (1/1)

Tier 5:

Awaken Elemental Weakness: Electric (1/1)
Wind Dance (1/1)
Power f Force (1/1)


Fire Savant Tree (23 AP Spent)
Core Enhancements 1-4
Tier 1:

Conflagration (3/3)
One With The Inferno (3/3)
Spell Critical: Fire (1/1)

Tier 2:

Spell Critical: Fire (1/1)
Fanning The Flames (3/3)

Tier 3:

Spell Critical: Fire (1/1)
Charisma (1/1)

Tier 4:

Charisma (1/1)

[thesnoman]

GEAR:

I don't plan on going over all of the possible leveling gear in this thread - you level as your choice of Savant (usually Fire, although I like the flavor of Earth for leveling since it changes things up a bit) - and then re-do enhancements and Spells once you can get into Shiradi Champion. I will briefly hit on gear that is handy, although not essential, for leveling a WF Sorc.

Leveling 1-20
5-piece Abishai Set (Level 5 - Level 9)
Shaman's Band/Shaman's Beads (ML 7)
Docent of Acid
Silver Flame Amulet (ML 11)
Skiver (ML 14)
Blue Dragonscale Docent (non-Epic/ML14)
Vibrant Purple Ioun Stone (ML 5)
Minos Legens (ML 11)
Mantle of the Worldshaper (ML 5)
Voice of the Master (ML 5)
Magewright's Goggles and Cloak (ML 18)
Radiant Ring (w/ +2 Charisma) (ML 18)
Unsuppressed Quorforged Docent of Battle (ML 18)
GS Con-Op Gloves
GS Double-Neg Belt
GS MinII Goggles
Quiver of Alacrity

EPIC Leveling (20-24)
Epic Blademark's Docent (ML 20 - Wear this until you have Battle Arcanist set with a Stone Heart to wear)
War Wizard's Bracers (ML 20)
War Wizard's Amulet (ML 20)
Epic Ring of Elemental Essence (ML 20)
Epic Phiarlain Mirror Cloak (ML 20)
Epic Ornamented Dagger (ML 20)
Epic Chimera's Crown (ML 20)
PDK Gauntlets (ML 20)
Seal of House Szind - Charisma +7 (ML 21)
Stone Heart w/ Con +8 (ML 22 - Battle Arcanist Unlocked)
Epic Cloak of Night (ML 24 Version)

EPIC Leveling/End Game (25-27)
Flawless Blue Dragonscale Docent
Epic Blue Dragon Helm
Ex Fort 25% Necklace
Planar Focus of Erudition (Cha or Int)
Mantle of the Dragonfriend
Jeweled Cloak
Girdle of Giant's Brawn
Epic Rock Boots -or- Epic Spiked Boots -or- Treads of Falling Shadow
Bracers of the Sun Soul
GS Con-Op Gloves
GS Min II Goggles
Ring of Deceit
Ring of Shadows
Ring of the Djinn
Twilight, Element of Magic

MY CURRENT L28 (End Game) GEAR SETUP

Head

Epic Blue Dragon Helm (EH) Insightful Charisma +3 w/ Globe of True Imperial Blood and PRR +14 Slotted

Neck

Stolen Necklace (EH) Charisma +9, Spellcraft +19 w/ Diamond of Vitality +20 Slotted

Trinket

Planar Focus of Erudition Insightful Intelligence +3

Cloak

Jeweled Cloak (EE) Fire Resist 30 and Protection +7 Slotted

Belt

LOOTGEN - Health +9 Belt of Dodge 9% w/ Yellow Slot - Strength +7 Slotted

Gloves

Greensteel Concordant Opposition (Con-Op) Gloves

Boots

Epic Rock Boots (Tier 3) - Dex +7 and Insightful Dex +2 Slotted

Wrists

LOOTGEN - Fortified (110%) Brecers of False Life (+40) w/ Sonic Resist 30 Slotted

Docent

Flawless Blue Dragonscale Docent (Tier 3) Natural Armor +7 Slotted

Goggle

LOOTGEN - Clever +8 Goggles of Resistance +8 w/ Acid Resist 35 and Insightful Strength +2 Slotted

Ring1

Ring of Shadows (EE) - Cold Resist 35 slotted

Ring2

Ring of Deceit (Tier 2) Insightful Strength +2 and Deathblock Slotted

Alternate Ring

Ring of the Djinn (Epic)

Weapon

Twilight, Element of Magic (Tier 5) w/ Magnetism +120. Reconstruction +114 Slotted

Quiver

Quiver of Alacrity


I am looking for a +15 Topaz of Concentration to slot in one of my Yellow slots since I still manage to get fail concentration checks occasionally.


VITALS (Unbuffed in Shiradi Champion Endless Faith and Unearthly Reactions Twisted)
STR 24
DEX 25
CON 36
INT 30
WIS 16
CHA 46

Hit Points: 771
Spell Points: 3892

Saves
Fortitude: 53
Reflex: 50
Will: 48

AC: 46
Dodge: 18%
Fortification 210%

DR 7/Cold Iron

Resists:
Acid: 45
Cold: 45
Electric: 60
Fire: 50
Sonic: 30
PRR: 14

VITALS (Shiradi Champion with Endless Faith and Unearthly Reactions Twisted - Ship/Self Buffed no Yugo)
STR 26
DEX 27
CON 38
INT 32
WIS 18
CHA 48

Hit Points: 799 (819 GH)
Spell Points: 3934

Saves
Fortitude: 60
Reflex: 58
Will: 55

AC: 50
Dodge: 21%
Fortification 210%

DR 7/Cold Iron
DR 1/-

Resists:
Acid: 45
Cold: 45
Electric: 60
Fire: 50
Sonic: 30
PRR: 14

[thesnoman]

reserved - last one

[MRMechMan]

Looks great, good summary of the changes. Btw, you can twist in stuff even without the feat, you just need the feat to first select it.

This even works through lives-

ie, oh, a useless level 18 feat before TRing, lets grab evoc focus, select ED ability, then TR. Or can use a featswap.

I'd say 2 pally is still overall best-but I haven't played the new content and if 40-45 saves across the board is enough, then 2monk looks pretty good, esp if using a staff and have a spare feat or 2 for stances.

[thesnoman]

Btw, you can twist in stuff even without the feat, you just need the feat to first select it.

This even works through lives-

ie, oh, a useless level 18 feat before TRing, lets grab evoc focus, select ED ability, then TR. Or can use a featswap.



This is incorrect - if you drop Evoc Focus, you lose the entire Magister tree and need to re-select. (I tried what you were suggesting) The exception to this rule is if you have the PL: Wizard feat, which eliminates the need for Evocation Focus. (I do not have a Wiz PL on this toon)


NOTE: I updated two of the posts above and am planning on finishing up the additional info on the FvS and Monk splashes over the weekend.

[aristarchus1000]

I did my LR+20 this weekend, but forgot to change my alignment before the LR, doh!

Anyway, I ended up trying the /2 FvS version, and so far I'm not terribly impressed with Scourge and Just Cause, they don't synergize nearly as well as they do on the wizard. Am I missing something. Anyone try the FvS version? I appreciate anyone pointing me to the right direction.

[Lonnbeimnech]

18 Sorc / 2 Pal - Lawful Neutral - Warforged


think you made a typo.

[ivo_rocker]

Great build! I've been following this, well, playing with it on lamannia and i got to say that it's awesome. However, I've got a couple questions: First, is there a required level for taking the two pally levels? And second, what's your aoe and single target rotation? Playing with spells, i still haven't found something i feel comfortable with. Thanks in advance!

[thesnoman]

think you made a typo.


Thanks for that catch - Should be Lawful GOOD - otherwise, no Pally

[thesnoman]

Great build! I've been following this, well, playing with it on lamannia and i got to say that it's awesome. However, I've got a couple questions: First, is there a required level for taking the two pally levels? And second, what's your aoe and single target rotation? Playing with spells, i still haven't found something i feel comfortable with. Thanks in advance!

First of all - I do not take credit for the entirety of the build - it's my personal flavor on a build started around U17-U18. Most of my inspiration came from WruntJunior - The dodge flavor is all mine and I must say - it seems to be a very controversial choice.


I like Pally at Level 16 and 17 - don't put any points into spellcraft for these levels as it costs extra points - put them in when you take your next sorc level.

The spell rotation is as follows once you've got full Shiradi abilities:

Single Target:

Scorching Ray, Magic Missile, Force Missile - Repeat

Multi target:

Chain Missile, Scorching Ray, Magic Missile - Repeat

Big Giant Masses of Baddies:

Solid Fog, Ice Storm, Meteor Swarm, Chain Missile Meteor Swarm, Chain Missile, Meteor... ... ... you get the idea. Refresh Ice Storm and Solid Fog as necessary and kite the baddies through the Ice/Fog as it slows them down dramatically.


Just as an aside, I'm working on another Shiradi Build - Keep an eye out for the "Toaster of Vengeance"

[Sehenry03]

So a few questions...

1) what about 16/2/2 sorc/pally/monk? Would you lose more then the evasion and extra feat you get?

2) also I am 25 pure sorc playing around with this build before I tr. I think I understand the concept but I really don't see any big numbers from magic missile. Shouldn't double rainbow proc a lot of dmg? I have all shiradi except the last stage

[thesnoman]

So a few questions...

1) what about 16/2/2 sorc/pally/monk? Would you lose more then the evasion and extra feat you get?

2) also I am 25 pure sorc playing around with this build before I tr. I think I understand the concept but I really don't see any big numbers from magic missile. Shouldn't double rainbow proc a lot of dmg? I have all shiradi except the last stage


1) MEH - the evasion isn't worth the trade offs.

2) At it's essence, your typical MM will run 19x6 = 114 damage without Shiradi.
Tier 5 Shiradi gives you: 7% 10d10 Sonic + 7% 2d100 Force + 7% Random Effect (Double Rainbow while in Prism Stance) +7% Paralyze for 6 Seconds (3/3 Nerve Venom)

That's essentially a 21% chance to do big damage per magic missile - assuming you're in Prism and not going against a baddie with lots of immunities AND a 7% chance per MM to Paralyze the target.

Most Shiradi Procs are based on Force Spell Power. The Sonic Proc is based on Sonic Spell Power. Max and Empower work on the Procs., so turn them on and then turn Max/Emp always off on the spells you don't want Max/Emp.


As a side note - the new build I've put together is a 14/4/2 Warforged Sorc/FvS/Pal. There's another build out there that's just as good (maybe better) Helf (Pally Dil) 16/4 Sorc/Fvs.

The 18/2 Shiradi Sorc is a great build and is really what started it all. With the new enhancements, there's so many ways to go that you can spend days debating which Shiradi is best and never come to a definitive conclusion.

[thesnoman]

OK all - if you've seen this thread and you like what you see, check out the "Toaster of Vengeance" (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429261-Toaster-of-Vengeance) in my sig.

The Basics:

14 Sorc | 4 FVS | 2 Pally

Fire Savant/Angel of Vengeance with a touch of Eldritch Knight

Base Fire Spell power around 400
Base Force Spell Power around 350

NEARLY UNLIMITED BLUE BAR!!!

I won't get into any more detail as I have a whole thread dedicated to this build - I worked on it from Level 1 through Level 28 with no XP Stone, so I've really gotten to learn the intricacies, what I did wrong, and what I would do next time (the next time is reflected in the build thread).

Again - if you're building a Warforged Shiradi Sorc, I highly recommend you check out the Toaster Of Vengeance (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429261-Toaster-of-Vengeance) build.

[Olds-cool]

Other than the bump to charisma and the hit to dex would you do anything especially different with an 18/2 bladeforged?

[thesnoman]

Other than the bump to charisma and the hit to dex would you do anything especially different with an 18/2 bladeforged?

Nope - I'm running a Bladeforged Toaster of Vengeance now and it's basically the same.

Differences:

Since you get the XP for 15 Levels and you need to take Pally at level 1, you might as well get the 2 pally levels out of the way first and then finish out with Sorc levels.

[Olds-cool]

Ok, so I jumped into this and leveled as 2 pally and 12 sorc. Holding 12 while I farm XP out to 16. I'm guessing that you'd try to work in enough EK to get the +10 to force. Also, I had a wizard PL so I took the active as the feat and replaced it at lvl 3 so I can cycle the MM from that as well.

Do you just play this as an air savant spell wise while leveling and then respec your spells once you hit EDs? If so, what spells do you recommend while leveling? My Sorc's have always been earthies so I'm not real sure on Air's best bets.

[thesnoman]

Ok, so I jumped into this and leveled as 2 pally and 12 sorc. Holding 12 while I farm XP out to 16. I'm guessing that you'd try to work in enough EK to get the +10 to force. Also, I had a wizard PL so I took the active as the feat and replaced it at lvl 3 so I can cycle the MM from that as well.

This thread was written well before EK was available, but yes, I'd try to work in some EK for the extra force SP and the -5% Spell Failure. This also frees up one enhancement from your WF tree.


Do you just play this as an air savant spell wise while leveling and then respec your spells once you hit EDs? If so, what spells do you recommend while leveling? My Sorc's have always been earthies so I'm not real sure on Air's best bets.

I actually level as a Fire Savant and as I progress I gradually fill up the Air Tree to get Wings/KD immunity. They really aren't essential until Epic Content. Blasting MoBs with FB from Level 6 - 16 is fun as hell though.
You could feasibly level as an Earth Savant (My favorite Savant to play, FWIW) and then make the switch once you have access to your EDs.